We are a week into Ramadan; yet what Americans are unaware of amidst all this hype and hysteria about the potential for a 13 story community center (with a mosque) conceived by Muslims, being built 2 blocks away from Ground Zero as opposed to 10 blocks away (which is about how far away Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf has been holding congregations for years, serving the community of Lower Manhattan for 27 yrs), is that Ground Zero has been invaded by symbolic flags of Islamic conquest for years, now:
: Halal food carts spotted ON Ground Zero!
A reader writes in to sound the alarm about another sacrilege that we’ve all somehow overlooked:
One thing I haven’t seen anyone write about is the presence of Muslim food carts MUCH closer to Ground Zero. There are at least two, depending on the time of day, along West Broadway between Vesey and Park Place. One is practically on top of the Ground Zero construction site, outside the Path station. Aren’t they an “affront,” a “provocation”? Muslims engaging in in-your-face commerce on sacred ground, with the word HALAL prominently displayed on their carts! Where’s Palin when we need her??
This is an outrage! It’s a slap in the face to all Americans. Would we have let udon noodle stands open shop at Pearl Harbor? Or allow sushi to be served aboard the USS Nevada just 9 years after the day that lives on in infamy?
Why isn’t this “creeping diarrhea” making frontpage headline news?! I am so sick of the media bias!
Granted, they most likely have the proper mobile food vendor’s license, and aren’t breaking any laws (Can we get some lawyers on this, right away, just to be sure? Perhaps find a loophole…). So we are appealing to Muslim food peddlers’ sensitivities here and demand: Go peddle the halal somewhere else. It is inappropriate and distasteful.
Especially during the month of Ramadan.
A former fetus, the “wordsmith from nantucket” was born in Phoenix, Arizona in 1968. Adopted at birth, wordsmith grew up a military brat. He achieved his B.A. in English from the University of California, Los Angeles (graduating in the top 97% of his class), where he also competed rings for the UCLA mens gymnastics team. The events of 9/11 woke him from his political slumber and malaise. Currently a personal trainer and gymnastics coach.
The wordsmith has never been to Nantucket.
My latest McCarthy book is The Grand Jihad: How Islam and the Left Sabotage America
@
rel=”nofollow”>Smorgasbord #31
: Are these Muslim women trying to convert or kill you? Or are they opposed to the Taliban’s puritanical Islamic extremism?Do you support our Muslim allies around the world- targets of the global jihad movement- or do you condemn them as the enemy, as well?
I dont think it goes with the blog but I just want to mention that
THE HALF MOON is bloody in color, a very unusual color. bye to all.
Americans may be worried, I’m speculating, that Muslims are going to have special “rights” that exempt Muslims from “tolerant” behavior. “Moderate American” Muslims, if they exist, may not want some of those jihadi clerics coming to mosques in America. Maybe “moderate Muslims” don’t agree with Christians being attacked in Malaysia, but they never speak up – at least not to my knowledge.
I was driving in London, proves I’m crazy, with 3 daughters. We were trying to get to York. We got lost and wound up in the “Muslim” part of London. The women were in burkas, following their “man”. It was a frightening experience, if that makes me a Islamaphobe, so be it. I’d say it makes me alert to a dangerous situation.
By the Park Lane Hotel, in a Starbucks, 2 Muslim men having tea, cake, etc while a very pretty, miserable looking young wife sat by herself with a son about 3. They had NOTHING. She avoided all eye contact. Her husband did come over to chastise her while we were there.
Muslim women are subject to sharia in England.
I’m for tolerance and religious freedom, but I’m not for Muslims transforming America into a country with Muslim enclaves that don’t follow our laws and the Constitution.
@Smorgsabord,
You’s gots enuff lernin’ fer me!
@Donald Bly,
It seems that, for some reason, they want to denigrate Flopping Aces followers. Whether that is their intention, they are giving the impression that we are a bunch of ignorant, stupid, prejudiced hicks.
skat, obviously you are female and seem to suffer under the delusion that Muslim women crave servitude. Some may, some may not. In both the UK and in America, they have that choice. As suek and I have discussed on another thread, it was Muslim women that put the kabosh on Shariah in Canada because any extreme of that practice was anti women’s rights, as well as against the laws of the nation… and also was exactly what they fled to western countries to escape. Yet in the UK, where you became so terrified merely at the sight of women in burkas following men, the government prosecutes Shariah penalties outside of western law… i.e. stoning, beheading, honor killings, etal. Did this escape you?
Yet here you are, automatically assuming that westernized Muslim women crave exactly what they were escaping. WTF?
INRE those women in burkas… not required in many a Muslim/Shariah country, BTW… they had a choice. Just as Amish and Mormon women make their choices in relationships and religion. In Iran and other oppressive countries, they do not have a choice. Islam and Shariah are not practiced and reformed uniformly in all countries. Yet if they decide that is how they want to live out their lives, who are you to judge them?
Instead you make it seem as if the US is suddenly going to become Iran because Cordoba House gets built. Please…. such hyperventilation and wild speculations do little to address our very real problem manifesting itself in our Congress and WH… creeping Euro-socialsim.
INRE this:
This is a debate of a hotly contested issue, and for a myriad of nuanced reasons. No one on this site approves of Cordoba House. However more than a few – including GOP candidates running for office – disapprove of mosques being built all around the country…. no where close to ground zero. This is documented hyperbole, and now… because of bloggers and so called “conservative” leaders like Newt… it has become a losing campaign issue. We are all smeared by the extended hype of Cordoba House to all of Islam. For this, I have little forgiveness and hope the midterms damage from the fallout over the real issues of fiscal irresponsibility is minimal.
As I pointed out above, there are 9 (+ 1 pending post) that are anti-Islam/mosque/Rauf. There are 4 posts that are “not all of Islam” counters. This is more than 2 to 1 balanced in your particular opinion’s flavor… and yet you still whine.
If you can’t handle anything other than an echo chamber, without feeling personally assaulted, I suggest you’re hanging in the wrong venue. I might add that if you want to genuinely examine the “denigration”, I suggest you start reading the “ground zero mosque” category of both posts and commentary from the beginning, and ask yourself where the very liberal/Alinksy’esqe assault/ridicule INRE opinions originated. I believe that Donald Bly was shut down with his horse manure with the same facts, and decided to tell us we could have the “last word” as he put in his “last word.”
In other words, he had no answer to the absolute facts he tried to muddy, and bolted the sand box with his tonka toys…. for now.
If, after reading from June to today on all that has transpired, you continue to believe you … the majority opinion and post thrust here at FA… is still being assaulted as a “bunch of ignorant, stupid, prejudiced hicks”, then I guess you really don’t “…gots enuff lernin’ fer me!”
Whatsamatter, Smorgasbord… never made it beyond prospect status and feeling disgruntled? LOL
Now, as a friendly word of advice, I wouldn’t be making broad class warfare against the Red’n’White. And that you do so as a tremendously poor analogy makes me wonder if you actually know any 1%’ers personally, or just decided to watch too many B movies late nights.
@skat:
Malaysia Muslims Denounce Church Attacks
Wonder if you missed this post. Or this comment with link to 500 Muslim religious leaders who denounced the 2005 London bombs?
Muslims do speak out. And they oppose and are slaughtered by extremists on a regular basis.
I don’t think anyone here cares to endorse burkas. But who really wears burkas?
burkas, beheadings, honor killings, kill or convert….how many of the 1.5 billion actually live like this?
There’s much to deplore; and as inextricably tied as Islam is to culture, some of the practices can be traced back to regional cultural traditions and norms.
And there is a bit of difference between European Muslim immigrants and American Muslim immigrants.
Sorry if that’s the impression I’ve given you. Insults, condescension, lecturing, and denigration has not been a one-way streak, however. From my perspective, the intolerance has been coming from your side of the farm. Neither Mata, Aye, nor myself have called all conservative opposition “Islamaphobic” and “bigoted”. However, we’ve been lumped together and lectured to as if we are in the “Islam is a religion of peace” politically correct camp of CAIR-lovers.
‘scuuuuuuuse me, but that’s “Muzzie Teamster” to you, Word…. LOL
From Wikipedia:
In sarcasm, ridicule or mockery is used harshly, often crudely and contemptuously, for destructive purposes.
Sarcasm is rarely “tongue-in-cheek” humor. You simply blew the humor away.
Patvann: Since I live under the NEW Dispensation called Christianity and not the OLD called Judaism, please relate all that “horrific biblical” stuff and a list of “hateful crap” you think exists that relates to Christians. Make sure you use it as moral equivalence to what is in the Quran. Idiot-ilks (this is often called name calling when is incapable of reasoned discussion) like me would truly like you to explain away the concept that love on one’s fellow man somehow relates to killing all the infidels one comes across or at least lying to them to get the upper hand.
Wordsmith: Your sarcasm was read correctly by me and others as a slam against our disagreement with you and others desire to see the mosque built. Raul still believes that America itself was one of the causes of 9/11 and refuses to this day to declare Hamas as a terrorist organization. Compared to al Qaeda he is probably a moderate but then Mussolini compared to Hitler was also a moderate.
I, for one, believe that Muslim have a right to live and worship as they see fit. They are also free to hold whatever hatred they have for their adopted country as long as they keep it to themselves. I have placed my life on the line numerous time in the Middle East to guarantee these freedoms. No one will be allowed to call me a bigot simply because I find the mosque offensive.
The community has the right to determine what can be built and what can’t be built via local codes and restrictions. I am a capitalist but that does not mean Walmart has the right to build where ever it wants without the backing of the local community. Many places across America have rejected Walmart eventhough the land would have been private and not violated existing building codes. The communities have the final word.
The President screwed up in a huge way by commenting on the issue. His press secretary had it right to begin with.
A voice of wisdom they’ve never heard
A vision of truth they left undisturbed
Why is their what and who is their when?
Evil so devastating again and again
@Mata
LOL!
Richard “Dicky” Smith (San Jose Chapter) used to live across the street from my folks…He would have the prospects mow the lawns, and take the garbage cans down for all the neighbors on the street. My mom dug the old dood, (after a while) and he sent me killer boxes of treats while I was away in the Navy. He died when I was away and I sure miss the old bastard!
In a sense in was what Hamas does in Gaza, but in reality, he really did like all of us, and we him. He never asked for a thing, and he made it very clear to his boys that nothing “bad” (illegal or immoral) was to go down there…UNLIKE Hamas, who uses the civilians around them as shields, and associations as barter.
@CHill:
Nope. You came in midstream into the debate. Click on the category and trace back to the comments sections. That’s what galvanized the post.
I didn’t want to see the “mosque” built. But what I oppose is the view that Islam itself is the enemy. It’s the view that al Qaeda wants us to have, but one which Muslim majority rejected. Their indiscriminate violence is opposed even by radical Islamists and fundamentalists who have rejected jihad theorists. But rather than marginalize the extremists, some apparently want to do bin Laden and Zawahiri a favor and broaden the war.
So do Ron Paul and Rand Paul and Michael Scheuer. How does holding the “blowback” opinion on America’s foreign policy make Rauf a radical Islamic terror sympathizer? He may well be; but so far the “proof” and “evidence” is no more alarming than views commonly held by anti-war Howard Zinn-reading blame America first liberals, and isolationist/non-interventionist blame America firsters, like the Paul Bearers.
One of bin Laden’s stated grievances against the U.S. was its presence on the Arabian peninsula.
Now al Qaeda theology doesn’t need an excuse to hate the West and the U.S. But just because someone may wish to “understand” what motivates the Islamic terrorists and points to U.S. foreign policy as a culprit does not make one a radical nor a terrorist sympathizer. There are far more quotes of Rauf condemning the attacks of 9/11 and Islamic terrorism.
How was your view concerning moderate Muslims enhanced by your sarcasm toward those who were offended by the possibility of the mosque being built? I still do not understand the connection.
I do not buy into the liberal concept that US actions or US citizens’ remarks will cause thousands of Muslims to join the ranks of al Qaeda as terrorists. This is pure fiction. A moderate Muslim is a moderate Muslim because of:
1. his personal upbringing, his personal experiences and his training
2. his intellectual and academic research into humanity
Terrorists are terrorists because:
1. training
Check out the background of most of the terrorists. Like the National Socialists in Germany, the children were abused early with Nazi training. How long have Muslim kids all over the world been trained to become jihadist. Try three decades or so. A Muslim does not go to bed at night after reading the FloppingAces website and then wake up to become a terrorists. Most Muslims do not even read English, let alone what US citizens and others say. Terrorist trained Muslims have been trained since they were children to the concept of jihad and Jew and infidel hatred.
One of my English professors once told the story of how she was working at a large New England university (Columbia, I think) and was working with ESL students who had not passed their TOEFL to get into the university. The students were asked to present a person who was their personal hero. A student from Oman, a sweet and beautiful young Muslim girl (according to the professor) did a presentation about how Hitler was her personal hero because he had killed all the Jews. She had never met a Jew, would not know a Jew if she saw one yet – training does wonders for young minds. The professor, BTW, was Jewish and the stupid little girl did not even know it.
Terrorists are not born overnight. They have been trained meticulously for decades. What I write or believe has absolutely nothing to do with “making terrorists.”
Also, I consider Truthers and the like to be extremists and not moderates. so your argument continues to fall flat.
@CHill.
Thank you for noticing that I said “Biblical”, not “Christian”. Now take that logic to the next step.
Once you do that, it negates the rest of your straw-man argument against my stance.
Just to head you off…I know full well the Jews have abrogated most of Deuteronomy, which is the same thing the reformers of Islam are trying to do in-between getting killed for it.
As a Christian, I love them as I love myself, so I want to help them succeed. Is calling all 1.2 billion of them “inherently evil and unfit to be Americans”, as some impart, part of that equation?
-Didn’t think so. Only an ignorant dolt would make such bigoted and un-Christian statements.
@ilovebeeswarzone: I’ll wait until they make me an offer.
@Wordsmith: #53 Are these Muslim women trying to convert or kill you
I clicked on your link with Firefox and Safari and neither one took me anywhere.
“Do you support our Muslim allies around the world- targets of the global jihad movement- or do you condemn them as the enemy, as well?”
During World War II our problem wasn’t with the German or Japanese people, it was with their leaders. They were dictatorships that brainwashed their people to do as they were told. It is the same in Muslim countries. It ain’t the people, it is their leaders.
All I have said all along is that Islam was created to take over the world. Would you or anyone else support any of the other religions if they adopted the “convert or kill” mentality? By the way, that is how the Catholic church used to convert in other countries. That is all I need to know to not want anything to do with it. How many other countries will have to bow to their laws before you realize they go into a country with the idea of converting it to an Muslim State?
I am one of those who thinks this has been covered enough. Nobody is going to change my mind and I ain’t going to change anybody else’s. I believe that conservatives can disagree on things like this and not have it effect our focus to get the libs out of office.
If you have read my “Why is arguing with a truck driver like wrestling with a pig in the mud,” I think we have too many pigs wrestling in the mud here.
@MataHarley: #56 I’m going to show my lack of lernin again and guess that “Red’n’White” means the Hell’s Angels. If it was a bad choice, at least you got my meaning.
I have no idea what you mean by, “…never made it beyond prospect status….”
I’m guessing that “1%’ers” means Muslims. I have seen enough of how women are treated that I don’t like it. Try wearing the black burka in 100% temperature for a few minutes and see if you do. (No, I didn’t try it). I don’t sweat much and 80º is too much for me in shorts and short sleeve shirt. I even feel sorry for the cowboy movie women and their heavy clothing.
One thing this post has caused me to do is remove flopping aces from my favorites, meaning I’ll never be back. All the sniping and name calling serves no useful purpose. When 2 or more people on a thread call someone else an idiot, I’m moving on. And when an author attempts to get readers to attack each other while they sit back and rub their hands together, it’s time to move on. One poster here had it right. If your attempt at sarcasm falls flat, maybe it was your writing and not the readers interpretation of it. And it did fall flat. Wordsmith indeed. Signing off.
tewllsy: hi, MAY I say, that there is many posts that are completly diffrent from each others dealing with many subjects that you would surely be interested to survey:
JUST to leave is most radicaly cut some habit that you uses to enjoy,
I might say that with all the posts here,and they realy get them in, one after the other,
YOU are sure to miss on the fun, as we get to be a group who enjoy being together and enjoy the new commer who share sames ideas: YOU should reconsider also because of the incoming
important challenge, AMERICA will have to confront, and for this, we must stay together,as diffrent minds do for the same cause. bye
@CHill:
I agree that moderates aren’t going to align themselves with the jihad movement, even if they feel offense, insulted, or maligned by those who lump them in as indistinguishable from the kill or convert Islamic extremists.
However, you certainly aren’t winning any “hearts and minds”, neither. Most of the committed, ideological jihadists come from middle-class to upper class backgrounds and are well-educated.
Others are not so religiously devoted so much as attracted to a romanticized sense of political ideology against the great western imperial aggressor.
Not all radical Islamists are a part of the jihadi movement. You have what David Kilcullen refers to as “the accidental guerrilla” where we are “creating more terrorists”. Do you think abu Ghraib (how it was perceived and propagandized) created more terrorists and global insurgents or not?
I cited Kilcullen in the other post you responded in regarding how theology is not the driving factor when it comes to predicting violence. Kilcullen writes,
I’d say that there are those who fall into the camp of potentials for radicalization. They are vulnerable and “at risk” and are influenced by either our actions or the manipulating of perceptions of our actions (distortions, misperceptions, anti-U.S. propaganda). Some of these are also made to be “at risk” due to environmental factors of poverty, crime, and a sense of disenfranchisement and lack of acceptance and sense of identity-loss in immigrant communities. This creates opportunities for extremists to offer explanations for their miseries as well as a plan for a “way out”.
There are good deal of falsehoods and conspiracies (and “the narrative“) floating around in Arab nations.
Magdi Khalil and like-minded Muslims provide a counter voice. But they are undermined by those who feed into the Arab paranoia and jihadi propaganda that the West is hell-bent on persecuting Muslims and Islam.
Kilcullen further writes,
CHill:
That misses the point. Forget the Paul Bearers, then. Think in terms of holding political opinions. Does holding a political critique of U.S. foreign policy as a contributing factor automatically make one a terrorist-supporting radical?
@twellsy:
😐
Evidence, please.
@Smorgasbord #66:
Try it now. Thanks.
Wordsmith:
Doesn’t sound to me like you are the “baiting for trouble” kind of guy as your sarcastic remarks made me think you were.
“However, you certainly aren’t winning any “hearts and minds”, neither. Most of the committed, ideological jihadists come from middle-class to upper class backgrounds and are well-educated.
Others are not so religiously devoted so much as attracted to a romanticized sense of political ideology against the great western imperial aggressor.”
Well-educated, you might have added, to become jihadist at a very early age. Bet you that each and every hard-core terrorist got the same education at the same age. Want to take me up on that bet? Most Arab nations now have schools that specialize in this kind of propaganda education. Again, the parallels between the National Socialists in Germany and the Islamist in the Middle East are remarkable. Historically, one can find a lot of “connect the dots” stuff from the Muftis visit to Germany in the 1930s and entire battalions of Muslim Nazi soldiers in the Balkans. The Nazis and these early jihadist shared the exact same agenda as far as Jews went. Compare the propaganda campaigns of the Nazis with those currently going on now among the population of Arabs and other Muslims. Same thing all over again.
Have read some of Kilcullen and he obviously knows what he is talking about. His writings do not necessarily disagree with what I wrote. Accidental terrorist. Want to make a bet about these accidental terrorists and their education at an early age as well?
Hearts and minds, you say. I have access to the heart and mind of one individual at a time. The majority of Muslims do not read English nor do they care what I or you write or think. I am in Thailand and I treat all people as a Christian would – with respect and charity. Go back to the latest article on your own blog and see who really cares about what is happening outside their own little life circle. Human nature – if it does not affect a human personally, priority drops immediately. The problem is the hard-core terrorist feeding the baby jihadists and accidental terrorists the same crap they were fed and fell for. Whose fault. The leadership of that particular country that allows and often supports such “brainwashing.” I strongly believe that the training has more to do with the budding terrorist than anything you or I or the whole Western world says. Matter of fact, we could probably all go to the Middle East with giant hugs and loving charity and the same amount of terrorist would show up to blow the crap out of all these huggers.
Not sure I buy into the concept of theology being a poor indicator of terrorism. Guess it depends on one’s definition of “theology.” Was National Socialism a theology? Is Marxism a theology? Certainly jihadism is a theology and not even Kilcullen could argue otherwise.
In the end, I believe that bigotry is an action and not a thought. To be a bigot one must act a bigot. Just because someone states that he or she does not like Muslims or does not trust Muslims does not make them a bigot. If, however, they treat a Muslim with disrespect based on these thoughts, then bigot they are. Just like that little Omani Muslim girl, clueless from her training as she actually was very attached to the English professor I wrote about who was a Jew who she professed to hate.
Seems to me we are singing the same song from the same sheet of music. Your sarcasm still sucked big time.
CHill….can’t really see much in that last comment to disagree with….’cept the last: I still like the suckage of my sarcasm in this post.
The thing is, jihadism is an ideological offshoot from Islam. And what I disagree with others on is in regards to Islam as practiced by those who do not fall into the enemy camp of violent radicalists, convert or kill extremists, militants, and committed jihadists.
Personally, I believe Geert Wilders has the right take on Islam. Proof – They’re trying to kill him.
@minuteman 26:
Are they trying to kill you too?
Aye – Don’t know and don’t care. Just trying to get the word out that Islam is a threat to this nation and bust balls on ocasion.
@minuteman 26:
Over and over you’ve tried to convince us here that Islam is the enemy and that all Muslims are the same…and that they’re eagerly awaiting the opportunity to kill or convert you.
Yet you “don’t know and don’t care” that someone or a group of someones may be trying to kill you?
Really?
Basically your premise is that Geert has a position that has made him a target, your position is the same as Geert’s but you “don’t know and don’t care” if you’re a target…
Seems your premise is flawed and that all muslims are not the same after all because, if they were, then you would be a target as well.
And if you really believed all you’ve written here you’d “care” enough to “know” for sure.
@Smorgasbord, no problem. Be happy to give you the inside education on scooter trash terminology.
Red’n’White is what we call Hell’s Angels. One point for you. 😆
Prospects are those being initiated into the clubs. Like Patvann pointed out, they are given the low down deeds and trash tasks by clubbers as part of their initiation. They can be easily ID’d by only have half the “rocker bars” on their jackets. Rocker bars meaning the curved patches at the top and bottom of their logos. Prospects will not have the bottom rocker patch until they are full fledged membership. If you are around the clubbers, it’s those you keep an eye on, since they will be sent out for any mischief or nefarious doin’s.
1%ers are what we call all m’cycle clubs (or gangs, as many non riders like to call them). The phrase came into being because there was such a small percentage of those who ride who actually join clubs like these… Hell’s Angels, Vago, Mongols, etc.
Well, twellsy, we’ll be sorry to see you go, but you must have been desperate for an excuse. No one called anyone an “idiot” on this thread. Now Smorgasbord did get called an “asshat” 😆 … then again, he’s come up with some pretty extreme solutions. Besides, he’s been around a while and I’ve never seen him sulk away or not stand his ground… right or wrong… on his opinion. He’s not a thin skinned kind of guy.
But Smorgasbord perceived himself being called an idiot (instead of asshat… LOL), and skat felt like she was being called part of a “bunch of ignorant, stupid, prejudiced hicks” Her words, and those have never been uttered by the rest of us.
Sure can’t help if those being debated decide they’ve been personally insulted. But the name calling you are using as your moment to exit is not only sparse, but mostly a figment of imagination.
Had you done what I suggested to skat above, and go back thru the ground zero category of posts and comments, you’ll find that the group assault/ridicule originated with the more outspoken anti-Islam/mosque/Rauf crowd…. first labeling anyone who disagreed as “Muzzie Teamsters” or Muslim apologists. Then claiming erroneously that we had labeled everyone who opposed as Islamaphobes. I might add that we were also all accused of being “dense”, “naive” and completely uneducated to Islam in general.
Therefore the hypersensitivity and exaggerations being bandied about are all of their own (the anti-Islam/mosque/Rauf group) making. Apparently it was their actions which, as you claim, have driven you away. So if you are leaving, it would be quite nice for you to accurately identify just which group was being demeaning.
To all:
Wow what an exciting thread. Now this is why I love Flopping Aces. I’m not personally interested in any sort of echo chamber where everyone agrees without any sort of dissent.
Oh and Wordsmith, I think your article was funny and I got that you were just being a bit of a smart ass! Hah
Ron. H
Aye – I’ve been shot at before (2 tours in Vietnam) and can handle that part of it. My concern is more for this country than anything personal. I still play with things that go bang and have a permit to carry. Living in South Texas, drug gangs are a more imediate threat, however there are many like myself that will not allow Islam to do to this country, what it is now doing to Europe and other parts of the world.
@Wordsmith,
Agreed that some, very few Muslims speak out against violence against Christians or against other Muslims. Is it because of fear of reprisal? If the vast majority of Muslims disagree with the fanatics, the fanatics wouldn’t be Imams, revered, etc. If the vast majority of Muslims are moderates, just wanting to peacefully co-exist, they have the power to take back their religion, at least in America and England.
I don’t see evidence that Muslim American immigrants are different than Muslim English immigrants were. I really doubt Brits ever expected Muslim women to be wearing burkas, be subjected to sharia courts, etc. It’s a slow progression – just as Muslims explain. When the President gives speeches praising Muslim women clothing (Cairo) he’s sending the wrong message.
Without a doubt, if Americans weren’t afraid of offending Muslims, no one would support this mosque at GZ. Reaching out is one thing, I’m sure everyone supports that. Different rules for Muslims is entirely different – that’s what this mosque represents.
@CHill61,
I agree with you. I don’t think Americans are creating terrorists by opposing the Mosque.
I did see the other posts @ the time they were posted. WOW! The hateful comments, insults between Flopping Aces bloggers, obviously FA bloggers insulting each other, and followers were flying. So it’s strange, to me, that FA would again stir up animosity with such a sarcastic post. In my opinion, the tone of the bloggers towards followers has sounded like elected Democrats lecturing their dumb-dumb constituents – not towards me, but towards some of the others. I don’t think it serves a useful purpose, but it’s your call. Flopping Aces has been a great site.
Ron H: hi, I bett, it must hurt to be smart, sometimes, SPECIALY when you dont want to be. bye
Haven’t had time to catch up, so I haven’t read them yet
Just adding links to more info:
http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2010/08/bloombergs-quiet-investments-in-sharia.html
http://bigpeace.com/cbrim/2010/08/17/ground-zero-mosques-hidden-websites-follow-the-shariah/
To ilovebeeswarzone:
I must admit that I didn’t understand your post:
“hi, I bett, it must hurt to be smart, sometimes, SPECIALY when you dont want to be. bye”
Was that an insult or a compliment? I realize that there is a language barrier but the way you phrased your post sounded a bit insulting. If this is not the case then I apologize for misconstruing what you said.
Ron H.
@twellsy: While I would hate to lose any reader the last thing I want this blog to become is an echo chamber of “right on!” “your right!” and so on. While every author on here has conservatism in common, its all on different levels…which is just what I was striving for when starting FA.
Ron,
A total side note.
It’s good to see you around.
Don’t make yourself so scarce.
Thanks Aye!
I read FA daily but don’t always comment because truthfully it can be a bit intimidating to tread the waters here. You are all so knowledgeable and quick on the draw so I feel as though I really have nothing of substance to add. I will however chime in just to let you guys know that I’m still around and “lurking”.
I love this site!
Take Care
Ron H.
Heh. Just tried to edit the comment above, since I see that the “bigpeace” link had already been posted. I did the “click to edit”, and it said I didn’t have permission to edit. ????? (213+ minutes left)
Since Muslims are exempted from Obamacare for religious reasons, as it is, from my understanding, against their faith to purchase insurance because they considered it a form of gambling; are they exempted from having to carry automobile insurance and homeowners insurance also?
Or… since driving is a privilege not a right, if they carry auto insurance in order to afford themselves the convenience of automotive transportation, would they then also be able to claim religious conviction in order to opt out of Obamacare?
It is my understanding that those that claim religious conviction as a tool for opting out of Obamacare are exempt from the penalties for not carrying health insurance. If, at some point they become extremely ill and then choose to opt in to a pre-existing condition plan… would any penalties that they had previously been exempted from be retroactively collectible? Or… will they simply be considered a special class?
Just curious….
Ron H: hi, I surely did not say that to insult, sorry if it sounded that way,
I LIKED your comment SO I meant that WORDSMITH is VERY smart and , HE gave us so many comments, that sometimes he must have feel tired of us, and just wanting to drop everything.
I apologyse for not being more clear before. bye
A moderate Muslim speaks:
we Muslims know the idea behind the Ground Zero mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation to thumb our noses at the infidel.
Do they not understand that building a mosque at Ground Zero is equivalent to permitting a Serbian Orthodox church near the killing fields of Srebrenica where 8,000 Muslim men and boys were slaughtered?
As for those teary-eyed, bleeding-heart liberals such as New York mayor Michael Bloomberg and much of the media, who are blind to the Islamist agenda in North America, we understand their goodwill.
Unfortunately for us, their stand is based on ignorance and guilt, and they will never in their lives have to face the tyranny of Islamism that targets, kills and maims Muslims worldwide, and is using liberalism itself to destroy liberal secular democratic societies from within.
Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Mischief+Manhattan/3370303/story.html#ixzz0wzDdzs6e
@ Mataharley 63,
No, I suffer no such “delusions”. Some women may chose to wear a burka, but many are forced to wear one. Muslims women may want to escape sharia, but that isn’t happening for many because Western governments are being “tolerant” allowing Muslims to engage in activities that no one – Christians, non-Christians, etc, would be allowed to engage in. It isn’t only the Muslim “women” unable to escape Islamism when Americans, French, Brits cave in – it’s also Muslim men. It’s just much more visible for women with the burkas.
At any rate, somewhere, it may have been on O’Reilly, the author of the above article said that “political correctness” regarding Islam since 9-11 has made life in the West much harder for “moderate Muslims.
@Donald Bly #90:
Several years ago one of them ran into my car twice in the same parking lot. (He was unable to back up his car within the allotted space.) When I asked to see his license, he produced a Virginia license with an Hispanic name on it. He was no Hispanic, and neither was the woman in the car with him. He ordered her to get back in the car in a language other than English or Spanish, and she meekly complied. When I asked to see his insurance card, he first gave me an optical insurance card. When I asked to see his car insurance, he gave me another card. I did not recognize the name of the company, but I wrote down all the information while he watched. Later I informed my insurance company of the accident and gave them the man’s insurance info. They called me back and informed me there was no such company. I called the number myself and it just rang off the wall. Sooo. It seems that at least some of them have paperwork, but it’s bogus.
@Skat
WoooP!! THERE IT IS!!!
If it wasn’t for all the damn lefties on the planet, none of this “creeping” Sharia would be happening. Along with them supporting the terrorist-side of the “Palestinian issue” since the 60’s, and too-many folks-to-list keeping us on the middle-east oil teet (don’t drill here! No nukes! No coal!)
-It’s no wonder they feel more emboldened after every step…and richer.
@ Mataharley,
It’s irrelevant whether “British Muslim women” want to wear burkas. Do Muslims want to be “British”? Do Muslims want to be “American”? If they do, it’s understood that some “customs” are unacceptable. I might want to move to Saudi Arabia and become a citizen for any number of reasons, but I’d have to expect to wear non-American clothing. I also object to burkas for security reasons. Muslims can wear it all except the head covering with little slits for eyes. If they want to wear a burka, go to Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, etc. What if some religious group suddenly had a revelation they always had to wear ski masks?
Since I so obviously think like a woman, I’ll say I doubt Muslim women want to wear that garb – not the burka. How many of those women are free to say what they want? How many of those women just picked up and moved to England on their own so they could exalt in their new found freedom and wear a burka?
@Patvann#94
Agreed!
skatblue, sometimes with a debate that has gone on since June, we end up having to repeat things we said in the past. So it’s like playing catch for someone who walks into a movie halfway thru, and wants to know what the plot is. And in this instance, I have said in the past that I am against the banning of any clothing in the US (not Saudia Arabia or other nations… *my* country). But with that are some caveats where face coverings should be banned for security… check points, perhaps universities as that Shariah loving country, Syria, is doing to their own Muslim population for safety, courtrooms, police stations, etc.
I also fail to see why you’d compare you going to Saudia Arabia, and accepting the fact you have to adopt your clothing as that is a good thing. Or that we should adopt the same attitudes. It is why Muslims escape these oppressive rules by coming to the western countries. Daisy Khan, and most American muslim women do not wear burkas, hijabs or other 3rd world Muslim country clothing. But for some reason, everyone thinks that Shariah councils means everyone… not only Muslims… are all the sudden going to be forced into burkas. This is truly absurd. Look at Egypt, Pakistan, Kuwait… and number of Muslim countries where their population dresses in modern clothing, albeit not as suggestive as here in the States. Hang, even the Iranians… most certainly under oppressive religious rule… don’t have a nation of women in burkas. So sometimes I have to wonder where all this BS comes from when it so contradicts with reality.
I think that should answer your next question, about how many women and their families did escape to Canada, US and other nations to escape this. Suek and I went back on forth on this women wanting oppressive Shariah after escaping oppressive nations on another thread. You may find it interesting to read that exchange all the way thru, starting with this comment that started it all. Please note that one of the links she, herself, had provided when trying to prove women were victims and oppressed in the UK had… in the same article… the fact that the Canadian Muslim women were instrumental in putting the kabosh on a Shariah parallel law system there.
I did not support the Archbishops advocation of Shariah in the UK in 2008, and still don’t. I don’t support it here. But then, it really depends upon what they are asking, doesn’t it? Obviously… as suek and I agree… no Shariah council or arbitration/mediation system can decide and implement something that is against our nation’s rule of law. So I don’t fear that stoning, beheading and honor killings are suddenly legal in the US. Hang, they aren’t legal in the UK either. But I do see where they need to resolve some civil differences, such as divorce settlements. This isn’t much different than the Jewish courts we have here in the US.
But people hear “shariah”, and all they can think about is Afghanistan. Shariah and Islam are implemented differently in every country. In the UK, the women can choose not to have an issue settled in Shariah councils, and use the British system instead. It requires voluntary participation by both parties, just as arbitration/mediation panels do here in the US. They are not without options. However they have to decide if their freedom to take that option is more important than remaining under an oppressive spouse.
And as I pointed out in the other thread, there is little difference in fearing death or abuse from a Muslim husband and a battered non Muslim wife who has to make the same choice. Choose life and freedom, or servitude and/or death or injury. In our country, in Canda and the UK, Muslim women have that choice. But in other countries, they do not have the alternatives.
I don’t anticipate the US becoming Afghanistan/Shariah, and would be armed and ready if anyone ever tried. That would take a Muslim violent overthrow in this country they’d never survive.
@Wordsmith: #53 All I get is a message saying the page can’t be found. Women never have wanted to talk to me. I guess Muslim women are the same.
Thanks for the reply Toothfairy… I realize your account is anecdotal but it does seem that the “protected classes” can exploit the system without a great deal of outcry from the greater population because the devil is in the details and when bills are 2500 pages long and no one has read them before they get passed… a lot of injustice can be accomplished in a single sentence.
@Donald Bly: “Since Muslims are exempted from Obamacare for religious reasons, as it is, from my understanding, against their faith to purchase insurance because they considered it a form of gambling; are they exempted from having to carry automobile insurance and homeowners insurance also?”
The Amish and Mennonites can also be exempted from the mandatory health insurance requirement on religious grounds. (The same insurance/gambling issue.)
Some Mennonites do drive automobiles. In Georgia, a recent bill would allow them the option of self-insuring instead of purchasing auto insurance policies.
http://religionclause.blogspot.com/2010/04/bill-to-permit-mennonites-to-self.html
skatblue…
Be aware that Mata is blind to the intent of those muslims who wish to impose islam on the rest of the world. To argue is pointless. She chooses to ignore reality when she says “I think that should answer your next question, about how many women and their families did escape to Canada, US and other nations to escape this.” in spite of the fact that _no_ women and their families “escape” to Canada, the US and other nations. No woman can leave a muslim country without her male “escort” whether it’s father, brother or husband. In fact, she can’t even leave her home without an attendant male. She has no family – the children, after a certain age ( I don’t know what it is) belong to the father, and she cannot take them away – even if he divorces her. Mata wears rose colored glasses. So women cannot escape _to_ Canada or anywhere else. _Maybe_ once they’re in Canada etc, they might be able to escape – though I doubt it. She is certain that all muslim women will reject the demands of shariah as soon as the political system in which they find themselves will permit it, and that will move muslim males to accept a reformed islam.
In fact, Mata…if what you say is true, then it is even more important that we support those you claim are moderates who are trying to break away from traditional islam by recognizing what it is that they are trying to escape from, and supporting them by proclaiming loudly and clearly that we will never tolerate islamic “justice”.
suek, shame on you for your demeaning commentary, and chutzpah presumption to speak for me. Apparently, dialogue with you is fruitless, and you continue to misrepresent not only my views, but insult me as to my involvement with researching the global Islamic jihad movements for almost a decade.
I am not “blind” to anything, save perhaps to my assumptions that you actually comprehend a dang thing I debate with you one on one. I assure you, I won’t give you the benefit of that doubt again.
The differences between you and I is I am well aware of the minority jihad goals, and also well aware of the Muslims (especially women and more modern westernized families) endeavoring to reform Islam.
And I have no idea where you come up with the “no women and their families can escape” commentary. You back that up extreme “no women can…” with what source? Are you unaware of movements similar to Civil War railroad underground that do this every day? Are you aware of even the small numbers of American women, married to Muslim men that attempt to implement oppressive anti-American rights, that do this battle daily?
Where there is a will, there is a way. And westernized women are not the only Muslims that want reform. They are present here, and in other western nations. They are not clamoring for those nations to revert to Afghanistan…. save in your limited views and fruitful imagination. Worse yet, you even ignore their own successful battles, merely to spread your blanket victim mentality.
Yes, it is important. So where are you on this issue? I’ll tell you where…. you manage to smear them, and their chosen religious beliefs, with your every comment. You impose your own infidel “scholarly” knowledge as arrogantly superior, by painting all Muslims as terrorists and craving oppression.
You will win no friends amongst them with your pervasive ignorance on the implementation of Shariah councils or their laws from country to country. It’s a one size fits all mentality with you, and no amount of evidence alters that.
And your demands they hurdle hoops to meet your satisfaction are equally reprehensible. If you said, “Mata, prove to me you agree with me, or believe this, by doing …. or I don’t believe you… tagiyya”, I’d personally say, screw you. I need to prove nothing to you. I wouldn’t care if we were in 100% agreement. Your demands for performance are nothing short of personally offensive.
And do me a favor. If you don’t quote my words exactly, and provide the links, never presume you have the power to present how I think to anyone again.
@Mate
INRE to your last 3 paragraphs.
Ya know I luv-ya-baby, but there has been a couple of instances where some leftist judge has indeed “left it to custom” while ignoring our own laws. Fortunately, the appeals process worked, and the cases were adjudicated in a manner consistent with actual American law.
(“Law! What a concept!”, he spits)
It was in New Jersey and another, and I owe ya a link, but if left to leftist’s, the camel will poke it’s nose into our tent very far. It’s the leftist’s that we must remain focused on, not Islam. For it is they who enable the Islamofacist.
Here’s something that is maybe being overlooked in all this GoundZeroMosqueStuff. ™
If the left is so damn adamant about separating church from state (thank you Hon. Black, you KKK-member, SOB) then why is the Obama/Clinton State Dept paying Rauf to hobnob with whom ever he’s hobnobbing with, in absolute secrecy?
What in the H, E, Double toothpicks is he doing/saying while acting as a de-facto representative of this country?
Now THERE’S a question that the Right ought to be screaming about!
Or are we now OK with using tax money to send the Archbishop of L.A. to Poland and Mexico under a press blackout to do whatever he deems needs doing, done? (untangles tongue)
(This comment sponsored by: Rhetoric R Us.)
@minuteman 26: The religion of peace doesn’t want to kill anybody. They are just playing with him. They really have quite a sense of humor, don’t they?
@Minuteman # 26
So do I, (CC in Cali is still allowed) and when that day comes. I’ll be right in front of you.
I served, too, and my son does now. Please don’t think that I am blind to any threat that may be brewing.
@Smorg.
Too many do want to kill. Over 15,500 dead by their hand since 9/11. Learn that most don’t, and that over half of that sad number were other Moslems. Learn also that over 80% of all “Moslem countries” don’t speak/read Arabic, and that in most of those same countries, the only “official” Koran is written in Arabic.
YOU might know more about Islamic history than most Moslems.
Honestly think about that.
@suek 100,
Got it. Time to move on – thanks for the info.
Skat…please use either skat or skatblue as your username, not both. Thanks.