Not everyone who serves is deserving of respect.
Last April, WikiLeak.org and its owner, Julian Assange, edited and published a 2007 footage they entitled “Collateral Murder”, which purported to show an American Apache helicopter killing unarmed civilians, including news reporters, in Iraq.
While WikiLeak.org is slated to release a new video of an alleged “massacre” by U.S. forces in Afghanistan, a 22 year old Pfc Army intelligence analyst serving in Iraq was detained about a month ago, accused of being the source of the leaked “Collateral Murder” video. Charges have now been brought:
BAGHDAD — An American soldier in Iraq who was arrested on charges of leaking a video of a deadly American helicopter attack here in 2007 has also been charged with downloading more than 150,000 highly classified diplomatic cables that could, if made public, reveal the inner workings of American embassies around the world, the military here announced Tuesday.
The full contents of the cables remain unclear, but according to formal charges filed Monday, it appeared that a disgruntled soldier working at a remote base east of Baghdad had gathered some of the most guarded, if not always scandalous, secrets of American diplomacy. He disclosed at least 50 of the cables “to a person not entitled to receive them,” according to the charges.
You can see a complete list of the charges here on the Help Bradley Manning website. If you think that site is stomach-churning, check out the Facebook fanpage (another one here and here), with comments like this:
while its very easy to bash some soldiers as being cruel and callous, these soldiers were doing exactly as they were trained by the Army. The Army uses Racism, hatred, and nationalism to train their soldiers to dehumanize the people of Iraq (or Afhganistan)
Soldiers in a sense are re-programmed to feel no emotion for c…ivilians. Its a trigger mechanism that when soldiers do or see something that an average person (non military) would reel or anguish over, soldiers are taught to push through that emotion.
I think that instead of blaming soldiers for the actions that are not only sanctioned by but encouraged by the leaders of our government, we should be focusing on the system that trains these soldiers to behave that way. If we do not demand responsibility from the nations leaders then nothing will change, and soldiers will still be trained in Racism, and hatred!
So what is Manning’s beef?
With his custom-made “humanist” dog tags and distrust of authority, Bradley Manning was no conventional soldier.
Ostracized by peers in Baghdad, busted for assaulting a fellow soldier and disdainful of the military’s inattention to computer security, the 22-year-old intelligence analyst styled himself a “hactivist.”
~~~ Manning is a slight, boyish-looking son of divorced parents from Crescent, Okla., population 1,400. His Facebook page shows him smiling, with stylish, upswept hair and a stated affinity for gay-rights groups including Repeal the Ban, which seeks to end the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy on homosexuals serving in the U.S. military.
Growing up in a house he shared with his parents and older sister, Manning had a sharp intellect and an interest in science, history and computers, said Jordan Davis, a boyhood pal. He said Manning also was determined at a young age to join the Army.
“It always seemed to me that Bradley was actually was more patriotic than probably even your average person,” he said.
Chera Moore, another childhood friend, described Manning as highly intelligent and helpful. But she said he had “anger issues” and could get furious when people disagreed with him.
When Manning’s parents split up in middle school, he left Oklahoma to live with his mother in Wales, Davis said.
After Manning graduated from high school and returned to Oklahoma, he quit or lost jobs in food service and retail in Tulsa, Davis said. Settling briefly in Chicago, Manning moved in with an aunt in Potomac, a Maryland suburb of Washington, D.C., and took community college courses before joining the Army in 2007.
Davis said Manning trained in Arizona, probably at Fort Huachuca, where he trained in compiling intelligence reports. Such reports help the military determine changes in enemy capabilities, vulnerabilities and probable courses of action.
In recent months, Davis said, Manning seemed to have grown more aware of social issues, including the gay-rights movement.
There’s some speculation going on, regarding Manning’s sexual identity as motive. So is this what it’s really about and not some “conscientious objection” to our war efforts, “terrorizing Iraqi and Afghan children”?
Check out his public profile and list of pages on his Facebook.
Manning’s family members declined interview requests from The Associated Press.
According to partial chat logs Lamo shared first with Wired.com, Manning started communicating with Lamo on May 21, a couple weeks after he was reduced in rank from specialist to private first class for assaulting another soldier.
In one of many personal asides, Manning told Lamo he had been the only nonreligious person in a town that had “more pews than people,” and that he had custom-made dogtags reading “humanist.”
Manning said he was pending discharge for an “adjustment disorder,” according to the chat logs, but Army spokesman Lt. Col. Eric Bloom said Manning wasn’t facing discharge when he was detained May 29.
The chats reveal Manning’s frustration at being “regularly ignored” at work.
“I’ve been isolated so long,” he wrote. “I just wanted to be nice, and live a normal life … but events kept forcing me to figure out ways to survive … smart enough to know what’s going on, but helpless to do anything.”
According to the chat logs, Manning’s turning point came when he watched Iraqi police detain 15 people for printing anti-Iraqi literature that turned out to be a scholarly critique of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki.
“After that … I saw things differently,” he wrote. “I was actively involved in something that I was completely against.”
Manning wrote he had copied onto compact discs “possibly the largest data spillage in American history” while listening and lip-synching to Lady Gaga’s “Telephone.” He wrote that he exploited “a perfect storm” of military computer vulnerability: “weak servers, weak logging, weak physical security, weak counterintelligence, inattentive signal analysis.”
His motive, according to the chat logs: “I want people to see the truth … because without information, you cannot make informed decisions as a public.” Manning wrote that he hoped to provoke worldwide discussion, debates and reform, according to the chat logs.
Lamo told the AP he grew concerned “when it became apparent that he was leaking classified information to a foreign national” — Wikileaks’ Australian founder Julian Assange. Early in their online conversations, Manning told Lamo that he had sent 260,000 State Department diplomatic cables to Wikileaks.
Lamo said he turned the chat logs over to Army criminal investigators after consulting with a friend who had worked in Army counterintelligence.
“It was a combination of an act of conscience and an act spurred by my understanding of the law,” Lamo said. “I did this because I thought what he was doing was very dangerous.”
Ellsberg said he considers Manning and Assange heroes for publicizing information the government wanted suppressed. He said Manning’s alleged leak was possibly more significant than his own, which exposed the secret expansion of the Vietnam War.
“He is the first person in 39 years to do something comparable to what I did — and really better than what I did, because it’s current,” Ellsberg said.
Both Ellsberg and Gabriel Schoenfeld, an author who supports cracking down on leakers, said that the Obama administration has gone further than the Bush White House in pursuing alleged whistleblowers.
The charges against Manning follow April’s indictment of former National Security Agency worker Thomas Drake for allegedly lying and obstructing justice in an investigation of classified information leaks to The Baltimore Sun.
The Army’s decision to charge Manning also followed a federal grand jury’s reissuance in April of a subpoena seeking the names of some sources for journalist James Risen’s book, “State of War: The Secret History of the CIA and the Bush Administration.”
Schoenfeld, author of “Necessary Secrets” and a senior fellow at the conservative Hudson Institute, said leaks of military information during wartime run counter to America’s interests.
“We’re serious about trying to win, and it’s extremely damaging to the morale of our troops,” he said. “It inflames the local opinion, where we have a real battle for hearts and minds.”
A former fetus, the “wordsmith from nantucket” was born in Phoenix, Arizona in 1968. Adopted at birth, wordsmith grew up a military brat. He achieved his B.A. in English from the University of California, Los Angeles (graduating in the top 97% of his class), where he also competed rings for the UCLA mens gymnastics team. The events of 9/11 woke him from his political slumber and malaise. Currently a personal trainer and gymnastics coach.
The wordsmith has never been to Nantucket.
So much misinformation in this discussion thread.
Somebody mentioned Haditha. It is astounding the myths still being circulated by both ‘sides’ about that incident. Some people are desperate to damn the US soldiers while others are desperate to exonerate them no matter what. Finding an honest, complete account is near impossible and the comment above is not even close.
In regards to the video of the ’07 air strike, the poster named ‘Oh, Get Real’ is absolutely correct. It should have been subject to release under FOI and not withheld. That’s the law. If you don’t like it then get off your butt and campaign or lobby to have the law changed.
I have no idea how this impacts the charges against Manning since the charges seem to be principally focused on the cables or messages he copied. These are basically two very different issues.
@DougP:
Let’s recap:
Edited…..edited, get that. This jerk passed on classified information to WikiLeak and they sliced and diced it to attempt to portray our troops as killers. So, let’s release everything, we paid for it(per Get Real….”Americans are financing this war and we have a right to know what’s going on”), so, let’s see it all so others in the world with the same mindset can also distort it. Haven’t they told us that Abu Gharibe and GITMO are recruitment tools? Let’s just throw another log on the fire. 🙄
Now would you kindly explain how classified information is subject to FOIA? What law demands that classified information be released? Oh yeah, we’re paying for it, almost forgot. 🙄
Don’t know about you, but I have a loved one that drops in on those God forsaken countries we are fighting in for a year, sometimes more. I’d prefer that “ahem” soldiers like Pfc. Manning honor their oath and keep their damn mouths shut!!!!! Might save the life of a daddy of two little kids.
BTW, You are right, you “have no idea.”
Missy,
You don’t want ‘another log thrown on the fire?’ Then do as I said and work to adjust the existing law because as it stands, your presumptions aside, this video can not legally be withheld (though they did it anyways). The condition under which you wish the video was withheld is not a part of the law. The FOI Act like any law is worthless if the government decides to ignore it. Have you ever done anything to try to change this law?
And you make a point of stating that the situation with the cables is different from the situation with the strike video which is the same point I ended with in my previous post. ?? Bizarre.
In regards to your loved one, I sympathize but I’m not an American and his role is not sacred to me. My companies experiences in Iraq have left me with a pretty bitter view of all parties in this conflict. My opinions should be of little relevance to you so rather than pointlessly burden you with them further I’ll simply say I wish your loved one always comes home safe.
Some facts for the vermin calling manning a hero.
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/201889.php
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/201878.php
http://collateralmurder.wordpress.com/
BTW, it looks as if the reporters were HELPING the terrorists to target our soldiers more effectively. They got what they deserved.
I watched the Thom Hartmann program the other say. He said that war is insanity. Rachael Maddow
spent some time in Afghanistan and said that would you give up your sons life so that Afghanistan could have a better government. She then said, I do not think so.
I think TO realease the video, has played in the hands of the people in MEDIA in helping the ennemy who for their own
agenda, DISTORT the NEWS and the people who play a part in helping the ennemys,
and thoses who want to abrutly end the war by discrediting the MILITARYS who are following ORDERS from THE PRESIDENT and his CREW: SO what is for anyone the end story after viewing
that kind of video?: nothing good, only an amount of FILTHY words against the militarys who are doing a HEROIC job, in there, with the RULES OF ENGAGEMENT, they are submit to follows
LET NO ONE FORGET THOSES HEROS,which many have been BLOWN UP BY thoses
ROADSIDES BOMBS, which thoses MEDIA CALLED EIDS so conviniantly for them.
@Stephen R. Zimmett: @Stephen R. Zimmett: I don’t know if Thom Hartmann is a liberal or conservative. You didn’t say if you agree with him or not. I would rather have my son die fighting the enemy over there than waiting until they come over here and we have to fight them on our own land.
Are you saying we should do like we did before World War I and World War II and wait until we realize that when the enemy takes over enough countries they will use those countriy’s people and resources to take over other countries?
Let’s see how using the logic that we used before those wars and the liberal logic of today will work. Islam has taken over the middle east. It is taking over Europe and other countries. After they take over those countries they will stop and not go any further and leave us alone.
Sorry, but it didn’t work that way in WW I or II and it ain’t going to work today. It’s like coming upon a pride of lions and giving them enough meat that they are all full, then saying to yourself, “Now, they will leave me alone.”
The Muslim religion has already started taking over the USA, and I believe King Obama is one of them. If we don’t fight back we will become a Muslim nation. The Koran teaches Muslims to “convert or kill.” If they can’t convert you or your son to Islam they are REQUIRED by their law to kill you. Would you want your son to fight them, or have him convert to Islam?
During WW II we sold war goods to Germany and Japan. We might have done the same thing in WW I, I don’t know. We are capitalist and want to make money. Who knows how many soldiers died from our own hardware! Did our hardware prolong the wars? That’s how gullible we are when we put profits over doing the right thing.
Smorgasbord
I don’t know if Thom Hartmann is a liberal or conservative. You didn’t say if you agree with him or not. Hartmann is a progressive. He feels that more Democrats need to be progressive. I certainly agree with his principals that ALL WARS ARE INSANE.
The Koran teaches Muslims to “convert or kill.” I THINK MOST RELIGIONS ARE A BIT NUTS ANY WAY.
SMORGASBORD: hi, what you mention is very important to keep in mind, and round up what the majority of AMERICANS feels on that subject. thank you. bye
@Stephen R. Zimmett: I’m not a church goer myself, but I will put my moral values up against any church goer. I don’t even like to hear or read cuss words. For years I have wondered how there can be so many religions based on the SAME bible. I finally figured out that, just like today, one or more people figured they could make some money and gain power if they could convince people to follow them. I am guessing that the Muslim religion started that way.
To me, the only “foolish” war would be one where the country being attacked doesn’t fight back. That would be foolish. But, I also say that when we go to war, we go in with everything we need, destroy the enemy as fast as possible with as few civilian casualties as possible, help get the country on their feet, then leave. None of this garbage of giving the enemy a time when we will pull out. That’s like telling crooks when you will be going on vacation and leaving the house empty.
@ilovebeeswarzone: I know you feel the same way about YOUR Canada.
SMORGASBORD: hi, THEY
TO finish the above, they bought a land in ACADIAN and INDIANS territory and they said they wanted to build a village, and in the TOWN Hall,where all the small town people where, and the INDIAN CHIEF said, BUILT IT and I WILL DESTROY IT,he had the support of all the people
THEY gave up on their plan and went away.
@ilovebeeswarzone: It sounds like your native Canadian Indians are being treated like we treat our native American Indians.
SMORGASBORD: IT depends where in CANADA, but in the east, they are very well like by
ACADIENS, having help thoses who stayed in the woods, when the BRITISH deported whole family to USA in a dangerous trip at the mercy of the sea elements, and they arrive in LOUISIANA
at the end being called CAJUN there
@Stephen R. Zimmett #23:
But of course it does! C’mon give NYTs a break: 32 consecutive frontpage articles on abu Ghraib? I suppose since it didn’t lose the war for us, that wart should have had an even greater magnifying glass shone on it. After all, it’s only the negative stories that deserves to define the war for us all. Those are the only ones deserving of consecutive frontpage headlines.
[/sarcasm]
@Stephen R. Zimmett #52:
And how would he have done this any faster than Obama (or Bush or McCain, for that matter)?
@Stephen R. Zimmett #59:
Oh, well why didn’t you just say “Rachel Maddow” in the beginning? I mean….if Rachel Maddow said it, then it must be true; her opinion must be the correct one. Because she’s Rachel Maddow and she’s been to Afghanistan! 🙄
Btw: parents don’t “give up their son’s life” for Afghanistan, Bosnia, Somalia, Granada, etc. Sheesh!
Adults make the adult decision to enlist themselves. Parents don’t make that decision.
I suppose you’d like it if soldiers decide for themselves which wars they should fight and for how long the duration?
@Stephen R. Zimmett #62:
Does this mean that no war should ever be fought? And how would that work itself out, exactly?
I served in Iraq and what this guy did was disgraceful all because he was not allowed to suck a D**k
Hot Damn! It’s Vietnam all over again!
Except the music sucks.
I like how you start by smearing Manning as a homoseexual or having sympathies for homosexuals in the military.
What does a guy’s sexuality have to do with blowing the whistle on a war that’s just a pack of lies?
Afghanistan and Iraq are just two more American wars in Asia against non-Christians. We lost Vietnam, we’ve shamed ourselves by our military conduct in Iraq, and after the Soviet Army had to crawl out of Afghanistan, we’re repeating its catastrophic mistakes.
I’m thrilled that low-rank enlisted guys are blowing the whistle on our murderous conduct and our lies in Afghanistan. Just like enlisted men blew the whistle on My Lai and our military conduct in Vietnam.
One thing that hasn’t changed after 40 years — American patriots in American uniforms are telling the truth about our genocidal, bigotted wars. What’s our next Asian or African or Latin American war? I guarantee it will have its Mannings, making sure the American free press and the American people learn the truth.
Can America fight a war with honor, respect for civilians, and honesty? If we can’t — don’t start these wars. End them now, bring our troops home from Asia immediately.
BOB MERKIN: you are very much underestimating the military all included in
your comment; you are ingnorant I can detect, of what’s going on in a warzone, that is why people like you dishonord the militarys of all thoses wars where the braves hurt sweath and died for you to come and spit on them, you made yourself to be the lowest of all ,
and you should be ashame and ask the veterans forgiveness directly to them.
Oh my, where do they come from? 😯
@Bob Merkin:
Here we have an “old dude, all hair, swell new teeth”( per his website, I kid you not,) defending the actions of a young man that swore to protect and defend this country and then, oh…..well….he decided to leak classified information. Apparently you gotta listen to Pfc. Manning aka.. realpolitik ace, capable of divining what’s best for the global war on terror, etc. Oh, btw how old is this Pfc. anyway?
Coulda, shoulda, woulda, there are always menbers of Congess if his “truth to power” should fall on deaf ears within his immediate chain of command, but no, he chose another path and I hope he pays for it…..dearly!
You see, Pfc. Manning isn’t the only one facing the enemy, many are out in the field having to face down the circumstances of Pfc. Manning’s very public issues.
Hi, I guess this is a test … I posted one thing favorable to Wikileaks and whomever may have leaked classified documents to Wikileaks. This was followed by two posts attacking my post …
then I posted a reply, and it didn’t appear.
So … if I praise Wikileaks and whoever leaks to Wikileaks … floppingaces won’t post my comments?
@Bob Merkin:
No, your comment is stuck in the filter, all you have to do is say please and one of the authors will fish it out. Happens to me all the time, no biggie.
@Bob Merkin:
No, the post in question was not simply some innocent praise of Wiki Leaks.
The post in question was filled with bigotry and racial epithets that plainly violate the standards of acceptable behavior here at FA.
If you wish to freely post those sorts of things, do so on your own blog, not this one.
This guy is a douche! He is a disgrace to the uniform that he wears. He has endangered thousands of local 3rd counrtry nationals who have helped us. I think he ought to be shot period!
First off BOB I dont think that any war can be fought without civilian casualties. Lets go back to WWII for a moment and see how many innocents lost their lives. Id say millions in massive carpet bombing of berlin and great britain. Since then through technological breakthroughs we have managed to minimize those numbers. But lets be honest in WARS PEOPLE DIE! The Talibans brutality is no different that Hitlers. Persecuting people who dont follow their ways. Keeping women submissive and uneducated. What we are trying to do is help those people be free from opression, and sometimes we make mistakes and innocent lives are lost. I served over there and I saw firsthand how much the people appreciate us being there and making their country better. I worked with interps who risked their lives to help us stabilize their country. These people could not even tell their parents where they worked for fear that their families would be killed. You see we are more humane than our enemy. They butcher families and rape the women of the people who fight to be free from their opression. They are fighting for a free country similar to what we once fought for. So lets be honest here what this douche did was not noble in any way. What he did was brag to a hacker that he could do all of this and not be caught. He in no way acted righteous. What he did was an act of treason and he did it in a time of war and I hope the military makes an example of him so that this does not happen again.
ERIC, THANK YOU,FOR GIVING THOSES INFO, THAT WAS VERY IMPORTANT FOR ALL TO UNDERSTAND,WHAT HAPPEN, WE NEEDED THOSES TO TAKE SIDES,TO GIVE OUR OPINION.
BYE
@Eric:
Amen brother, and thank you. If ever there was a case of a traitor deserving execution, Pfc Manning is it.
My missing or blocked comment introduced me as an honorable US Army veteran, 1969-1971, a fancy medal, a file stuffed with commendations, and a lovely thank-you note from my commander-in-chief Richard M. Nixon.
Yeah, Missy, I’m an old dude. You seem to sneer at that as if it’s some kind of crime. Call me when it happens to you, and I’ll sneer at you.
All of you who’ve served — thanks, sincerely, for serving. (I first heard that thanks-for-serving message 38 years after I’d served.)
The racist references are what American troops call, and are encouraged up and down the chain of command, to call the people of Iraq and Afghanistan. During my service we were encouraged to call the Vietnamese — both the military enemy and civilians — gooks, dinks and slopes.
I didn’t use the old terms, and I scrupulously don’t use the new terms for Afghanis and Iraqis. This is the sick and the sad part of PsyOps — before we can kill a group of people, we immunize ourselves into regarding them as subhumans — not as human as we are, not as important to keep alive.
Some comments talk about America’s ideals in fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. They’re noble and high-minded. They’re almost identical to the public ideals Johnson and Nixon used to justify contnuing the war in Vietnam. We tell the world, essentially, that we will project the force of the world’s most powerful military to transform Iraq and Afghanistan into parliamentary democracies identical to Pennsylvania or Iowa.
The political criticism of such military missions calls them “nation-building,” and the highest and deepest levels of American politics have, since the Clinton administration — Balkans and Somalia — objected to “nation-building” as an inappropriate, impossible and devastatingly expensive mission for the US military. Afghanistan and Iraq will not become, within the next decade, Pennsylvania and Iowa.
PFC Manning — and before we shoot him, I’d remind everyone that even under the UCMJ, there’s a presumption of innocence, for now he’s just a suspect — is accused of giving Wikileaks about 50,000 digital documents, diplomatic and military, regarding our conduct of the war in Afghanistan from 2004 to 2010. (Before the Wikileaks stuff, he was reduced in rank from SPC(4?) for fighting with another soldier.)
Wherever they came from, the Wikileaks publication of these documents is being compared to the release of The Pentagon Papers during the Nixon administration to The Washington Post and The New York Times. The White House sued to block further publication. The US Supreme Court, in the middle of the Vietnam war, ruled that the federal government did not have the Constitutional authority to prevent the publication of these documents.
(The UK, by the way, does have such censorship authority; the Ministry of Defense makes a phone call, and no media outlet will publish what the MoD tells them not to.)
In other words, even in wartime, the American people have a right to read the classified details of the war, so they can make up their own minds about supporting or opposing a war. Supporting a war in an atmosphere of classified ignorance is like judging a beauty pageant in the dark.
It’s treason (well, the usual crime is espionage) to give classified military information to another country — a hostile nation like Russia or China, or a close strategic ally like Israel.
But giving classified information to the American people, dragging the secret details of a questionable war into the American sunlight, isn’t espionage or treason. It’s Something Else, with Constitutional protection.
Can America fight (and win) a war without hiding the details of the war from the American people?
First off Im not a “missy” I am a veteran as well. and if you look at the facts our nation has the most discriminate fire rules of any nation IN THE WORLD! Our rules of engagement state we cannot fire unless someone fires upon us first. So usually that is when a snipe KILLS A FRIEND AND BROTHER! So go bash China for killing innocents and North Korea for starving and enslaving their people or Iran for persecuting their people because they wanted fair and impartial elections. My father served in Vietnam and my Grandfather in WWII . Never once did they complain about the friggin politics of it all nor did they point fingers. So yeah thanks for your service but the american public has no business reading classified docs because they would not be happy just reading them they would want to share them with the world. They are called classified for a reason. We are not fightin the war for the american people we are fighting for another country and to keep terrorist out of ours.
of COURSE THEY NEED TO KEEP THE STRATEGY SECRET and what they find under the cover,because of thoses who are willing to reveal their own secrets ;
IS NT IT OBVIOUS. THE NEW TECHNOLOGY IS HELPING BUT IS ALSO A SWORD WITH TWO EDGE
IT CAN SINK ANY IMPORTANT CONFIDENTIAL PAPERS,INTO OPEN VIEW FROM JOURNALIST THAT WOULD SELL THEIR SOUL TO GET THOSES.
@Eric:
Eric, the “missy” was a bit of a lash Bob Merkin was sending out to me because of my snarky response to him above where he referred to himself as an “old dude, all hair, swell new teeth”( per his website).
He seems fixated on terms that some members of the military used to refer to the enemy in Nam and the WOT, but he then goes on to use an oddball phrase for himself and gets a bit put off by my snark.
Now, I don’t know about what terms you may have used to define the enemy of today, I do know because I was the wife of a Green Beret during Vietnam, that they did use slang terms for the enemy.
But, my nephew, one of Saddam’s guards, after his execution he served as a protector of prisoners in Abu Gharibe that were to be interrogated, has never in my presence used slang terms to define the enemy.
His duty was to bring them from their cell to CIA interrogators, sit through the interrogation to make sure our guys never laid a hand on them, and then return them to their cells. When he got back to us, in all my conversations with him, never once referred to them in a slang term. He expressed that they were the lowest creatures humanity had to offer and hated them, but referred to them as either Al Qaeda, or Iraqi terrorists.
He was a Sgt. during his time in Iraq, has since been promoted and while in this country is involved in training his troops, Knowing him, I seriously doubt that they are encouraged to use derogatory terms when referring to the enemy, perhaps you can shed some light on this issue.
I heartily thank you and Bob Merkin for your service to this great nation, it is because of both of you and countless others that we are afforded our rights to offer our opinions through free speech as well as all our other rights under our Constitution. Big job, and you guys did your part, thank you!
MISSY; I MUST SAY,I LOVE THIS BLOG,I LOVE THIS GROUPS OF TRUES AMERICANS COMMENTING HERE, THE BEST OF THE BEST, WITH THESE BRAVES WARRIORS”,WE HAVE NO FEAR
BECAUSE
THEY TAKE ON THE ENNEMYS WHILE WE SLEEP. FROM O.T.”
MY KEY IS STUCK ON BIG LETTER ‘ WHAT CAN I DO?
@ilovebeeswarzone:
Hit the caps lock and it will all be ok. 😉
Love you beezy!
Leaving tomorrow, miss you all until 8/8 or 9. 🙁
Thanks Missy for your husbands sacrifice as well as Bob’s. We fight for everyones right to voice their opinion it is what makes our nation great!
@Bob Merkin
Putting aside for the moment whether or not you, or anyone agrees with the reasons for sending Americans into war, making certain that we do all we can to help them be successful should be our top priority. If the Army’s head shrinkers determine that dehumanizing whomever it is helpful to dehumanize, than so be it. If our sons and daughters freeze emotionally during battle, they would be more likely to get themselves injured or killed, rather than the enemy. A decorated veteran such as you claim to be should know that.
Like it or not, wars are won by killing people on the other side, destroying their infrastructure, and breaking their will to fight. Smart soldiers also realize that they will be actively trying to do the same to us. Pfc Manning helped the enemy in that endeavor. When he did so, he risked the lives of Americans, (our sons and daughters,) without regard for anyone or anything but his own ego. This is unacceptable to me, as it should be for any American citizen. Manning deserves a slower end than the firing squad which he will face.
Moral standards for waging war are for politicians. Prosecution of those conflicts and decisions for conduct of same should be for military leaders. By second guessing all of the above, Pfc Manning risked the lives of hundreds of thousands of Americans.
gee thank’s,it work,SO EASY AND I did’nt know, INGNORANCE is realy the the antibrain function
MISSY, you save me, like an ANGEL do, bye
BOB MERKIN: hi, MAYBE it save the soldiers to PTSD, because they would harden their feeling by calling thoses names and it remain a temporary recipy so when they come back to the country,they can forget the worse part by forgetting thoses names which they dont
have to ever pronounce it, IT should make sense, and it’s required by phsychologue
who study thoses behavior, and are the best who work for militarys.
WE have still to much soldiers coming back with that PTSD, the RESEARCH MUST CONTINUE until it is eradicated. THE SOLDIERS are the very important backbone of this REPUBLIC and they diserve the best salaries and medical care over anybody else,because they are worthy,
and they are not expandable, like bad politiciens are.
I’ve spent over 7 years in Afghanistan. Q-har, Kabul, Bagram, and all over Western Afghanistan.
Manning is a twit and a traitor. He’s no hero. Just another criminally self righteous T R A I T O R.
Zimmett, you deserve the fate that would come to you if those “civilians” were to capture your sorry tranzy-prog butt in the Stan or Iraq. You’re a complete idiot and the beheading that they would give you would only serve to improve your ability to think. I’ve not read such stupidity from an adult since the last time I spoke with one of your ilk. Unfortunately, there are far too many of your kind out there. Go hug an al Qaeda operative. You deserve that fate.
Dawood Khan, just making as educated guess as I can, but Ramadan Kareem.
All of you who are angry as hell at this old vet’s opinions, but still said “Thanks for serving” — well, thanks!
A war based on lies and corruption, a war with a hopeless strategy impossible of victory will ALWAYS generate whistleblowers. I don’t know what’s going to happen to Manning, but we’ll all be meeting here again, in six months, in a year, to scream about the next uniform whistleblower.
It’s not the guy. It’s the bad war.
Yesterday the USA ceased combat operations in Iraq.
I pray tomorrow the USA gets its act together and ceases combat operations in Afghanistan, and brings the guys home safe.
A very strange moment this year — more US armed forces suicides than deaths from combat operations, the first time that’s ever happened in living memory. Something is so wrong with these wars that soldiers and Marines are taking that way out.
Manning? He’s being detained in Quantico, will almost certainly face court-martial, and I’d bet he’ll get 10 years in Leavenworth (but will quietly be released in 5). DoD won’t want to make him a noisy martyr. A lot of Americans are advocating for him, sending money for his legal defense.
He won’t be executed. He won’t get a super-long sentence — because that will never deter other soldiers from whistleblowing during a f***ed-up “liars’ and scoundrels’ war” (Abraham Lincoln’s description of Polk’s Mexican War — Lincoln was a vet himself, of the Black Hawk War).
I don’t think Manning’s a hero. I think bad, wrong, corrupt, hopeless wars make whistleblowers like him inevitable. The American people hunger for facts, on which to support or oppose far-away wars. Soldiers and Marines like Manning will inevitably feed the hunger of the American people.
Let me quote or paraphrase Will Sherman.
War is all hell. There is not getting around it.
The bad part of the war in Afghanistan and all other wars but especially those like Iraq is that we don’t prosecute them with that in mind.
Fight the war hard. Not soft. Especially in places that are less educated.
Come in hard. Then gradually introduce liberty, freedoms, republicanism, democracy.
Germany and Japan are prime examples of this. We destroyed them and sought unconditional surrender. Then we gradually placed them back in control of their own destinies.
We have done the opposite here in some misquided quest to conduct a PC TV War in both Afghan and Iraq.
The more you kill in the beginning the fewer die in the end.
General William Tecumseh Sherman (still a detested memory in the USA Deep South) had a terrible but clear vision: The best war is the shortest war. To achieve this, he subjected the civilian men, women and children of the Confederacy to terrible suffering and starvation.
The USA and its Nato allies have now been in combat in Afghanistan considerably longer than it took us and our allies to defeat the combined industrial military nations of Germany, Italy, Japan and their handful of Axis partners.
The Pentagon has been discouraging the use of the phrase “Long Wars” which historians and scholars have been using to describe — well, starting with Vietnam (our longest war since the American Revolution), the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
You favor Sherman’s kind of war — war with that Vietnam-era tattoo: “Kill ’em all, let God sort ’em out.”
This moment in Afghanistan is a wretched one. Afghanis sincerely hate the cruelty and injustice of the Taliban.
But they hate Americans more. With the guns of both sides pointed at their heads, they must make a choice. And they’re increasingly choosing the side
1. who worships as they do
2. who speaks their language
3. who will be there long after the Americans are gone — because however long we stay, Afghanis know the Americans are going home.
The most powerful military in Eurasia, the Soviet Army, eventually marched out of Afghanistan after their brutal, Sherman-style Long War. No foreign army has conquered and pacified Afghanistan since Alexander the Great.
All we can do is repeat the Soviets’ mistake — or choose to be even more brutal than they were.
That’s not the message I want to send to the people of Afghanistan, to the people of Iraq, to the people of Iran. “Do our bidding, or die horribly by the hundreds of thousands.” — let that be a Russian message to the world, or a Chinese message to the world.
It’s not an American message.
It is a most deliberate Liberal myth that Afghanistan has not been conquered since Alexander.
It is still a myth. Either that or a deliberate lie of the defeatist element in the West.
Afghanistan was conquered by Genghis Khan. It was conquered by Timur the Lame. It was conquered by the Moghuls starting with Babur.
Before Babur, parts of what we call Afghanistan (it is a recent political invention of the West, afterall) was conquered by the Uzbeks of Shaibani Khan.
There were others who conquered part of what we today call Afghanistan.
That is not counting the Muslims who came up before Genghis and took the Afghan tribes and converted them forcibly to Islam.
Again, learn history before you attempt to preach it.
Genghis Khan desolated whole swaths of Afghanistan including Herat (Khorasan) and Iskander (Qandahar).
As I said, it’s a convenient defeatist myth. Nonetheless, it is akin to one of Stalin’s/Mao’s “Big Lies.”
Britain did not conquer it and neither did Russia. That does not mean that their version or the defeatist version of history is correct.
I left Afghanistan early this year. I was a Police Mentor/Trainer. While I was in Afghanistan, I got the distinct impression that the people hated the Taliban. Especially the Tajiks, Aimaqs, Hazaras, Uzbeks and other non-Pushtoon tribes. You speak as if you speak for the whole of the Afghan people. I can say with a certain authority of having spent 7 years there that NO, the Afghans do not hate America or Americans. The true uncertainty of our commitment to the fight there began with Obama.
Most Afghans aren’t to the point of taking a side in this war. The point of their existence is subsistence and security. They go with he who pays the most. That is their loyalty point.
Like I said before, had we gone in and crushed the Taliban. Used Afghan leaders such as Rashid Doostum and obliterated the Talibs, we’d be finished by now. We could have begun introducing democratic reforms in the mold of Japan and Germany in the post World War II era. An era the successfully transformed two of the most Imperial Nations on Earth into Democracies and International Partners in the Peace Process.
Instead, we PC’d our way into the war. We backed into it. We allowed whole Armies to evade us and slip into Pakistan.
Don’t get me started on Pakistan. Or Saudi Arabia. Two of the greatest enemies of peace and democratic peoples of our era and of history.
Afghans want a real country. Afghans want Democratic Reforms.
We are giving them neither. We are giving them a corrupt, laughing stock of a leader in Hamid Karzai who is backed by Afghan Leaders who were once Taliban and who still harbor those Taliban impulses. Instead of giving them Democratic Republianism, we gave them Shariah laced faux Republicanism.
What is the American Message?
“Do our bidding or we will abandon you to the fates.” “Do our bidding or fuck ya, we’ll let the Taliban have ya back.”
That is the message that we are sending now.
Dawood —
Aren’t you frustrated that you know so much about Afghan culture, history, customs, language, attitudes, worship — and clearly you do, far better than me, your posts are remarkable for their knowledge — while 93 percent of Americans can’t find Afghanistan on a map?
This may sound like a joke, but maybe it’s not a joke. The USA should never fight a war in a place most Americans can’t find, can’t spell, can’t speak, and never heard of before.
And we should be doubly, triply hesitant about sending tens of thousands of American Christian soldiers to force a million Muslims to do our bidding. To the Muslims of Asia, our efforts are just our Holy 18th Crusade to crush Islam. You can say it’s not, you can say it has nothing to do with Western historical hatred of Islam. But that’s not what Muslims in Asia and Africa see and believe.
I know Karzai very well. His previous names were Ngo Dinh Diem, Nguyen Van Thieu and Nguyễn Cao Ky. He’s our cooperative puppet. The “President of Kabul” is the USA’s Babrak Karmal.
You forgot Manuel Noriega and Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi among others.
America should never fight a war unless it intends to prosecute that war fully and to it’s complete ability. Employing all means to win swiftly with overwhelming fire power, man power and logistics support. Politically speaking, America must support the war and the war should be discussed realistically and honestly.
Neither Iraq nor Afghanistan were discussed realistically.
There are no good wars. There are just wars.
Sometimes, you must fight them. Sometimes, you want to fight them. Sometimes, you can avoid fighting them. Sometimes, avoidance is mere delay and a guarantee of greater calamity when the fight finally comes.
The best time to fight a war is when you are dreading it but are prepared for it.
Geography doesn’t matter.
There should be no place on the planet about which a high school graduate has not heard or been taught on at least a superficial level.
The ignorance of the people is justification of nothing. It’s neither reason to do or not to do something.
I’m not a Christian. I served over there.
Religion should not matter either.
I don’t care what the Muslims think.
Who threw the fist blow in this 1300 year contest between Islam and Christianity/the West?
Where and when?
I ask this because so many ill informed persons blame the whole conflict on either Christianity, the West or America.
All Muslim lands except Arabia were once Christian lands and even Arabia had Christian dwellings and settlements who were either forcibly converted or made to pay the jizya.
The conflict between these two cultures began with the Arabian forces of Muhammad and his successors riding out of the desert with the sword.
The Crusades were an attempt to regain Christian lands.
The Crusades were not a pre-emptive strike and nor were they a first strike.
It irks me when folks use the crusades as some kind of terrible Christian or Western Crime. The Crusades were a response to many things but above all they were a response to the Islamic invasion of Europe.
Had the Muslims not invaded Europe or conquered Eurasia, there would have been no Crusade.
Constantinople, now called Istanbul, was THE center of Christianity for centuries.
In what country was the Councel of Nicea held? The council which decided the final form of the book of the Bible.
There was no true Muslim claim on the city of Jerusalem until hundreds of years after the death of Muhammad. That claim is disputed even by Muslims. Saladin made that one stick in the 12th Century (I think).
Now, I know that none of this has anything to do with PFC Wikileaks.
You simply hit on a few pet peeves of mine. Historical inaccuracies and misinformation spread by Western Apologists. These people make me cringe with their lies and half truths.
What I’m saying here is that the Muslims are not innocent babes who’ve committed no crimes.
Dwood Kahn: hi, IT’s a real gift from your knowledge, to me and some who di’nt know. thank you. bye
My problem with Pfc. Bradley Manning is that is leaks and 50000 + documents have informers names and they are probably dead by now. So his actions cost there lives. There are other ways to expose the government but a intell dump on the INTERNET is really bad. So as far as I am concerned he is personally responsible for anyone killed because of there names being exposed. I see it no other way. If you don’t know it there are mistakes made in every war. Smart-in up folks. What was the name of the operation in UK during WW II oh yeah Operation Tiger it was covered up for 50 years how they were practicing D Day landing on UK beaches at night and were attacked by German U Boats and killed many. It was bad but it happens.
@Coast2co:
Excellent point! The left is trying to paint him as some sort of saintly whistle blower. That would have meant taking his concerns to the proper authorities. He is nothing more than a treasonous punk who deserves what ever the court marshall determines.
I’m sure no one reading this gives a damn, because you all seem to believe whatever anyone tells you, but the article above is lying to you in an incredible number of ways, purely to character assassinate Bradley Manning so you despise and hate him. Before you comment on this post maybe spend just 5 minutes researching a little more, make your own decisions based on more than one article that has picked sources out of the sky, and written whatever they like whether or not it is based on any truth. Because some have stated otherwise, the Pentagon themselves have issued a statement saying that ‘to their knowledge no solider has been harmed as a result of the released documents’. I feel I should also point out that the Genève convention that the United States of America is obligated by law to follow, states, any witnessed human rights atrocities HAS TO BE reported by military personnel. The murder of civilians and the handover of detainees to groups known to carry out torture, as shown in the leaked documents, constitute this. Subsequently, Manning was obeying the law. If you believe any of these facts are wrong, please correct me on the interpretation of the Genève convention. Stop focusing on who leaked the documents and instead on what they show us.