Should convicted felons be given a second chance? Barack Obama thinks so, and he thinks the tax payers should have to foot the bill. He made his view on this issue more than evident during a town hall meeting in Elyria, Ohio on January 22nd. Here is a excerpt from this Ohio town hall meeting, where a 29 year old felon who has never had a job in his life asks Obama if he will help felons get a job.
Jerome the felon asks Obama:
“I’m 29 years old, and I’ve never had a job in my life. I went to jail when I was younger. It’s like hard to get a job as a felon. Is this — any programs that hire people with felonies like something that — because it’s sad, it’s like — 29 years old, I’m 29.”
Obama Answers Jerome:
“Look, I’m proud of the fact that you’re bringing this up because there are people who’ve made mistakes, particularly when they’re young, and it is in all of our interests to help them redeem themselves and then get on a straight path. Now, I don’t blame employers obviously for being nervous about hiring somebody who has a record. It’s natural if they’ve got a lot of applicants for every single job that that’s a question that they’d have in their minds. On the other hand, I think one of the great things about America is we give people second chances.
And so what we’ve tried to do — and I want to say, this has been a bipartisan effort — when I was in the Senate, working with Sam Brownback; my Vice President, Joe Biden — passing a Second Chance Act that helps to fund programs that help the reintegration of ex-felons.
It’s smart for us to do. You know, sometimes people say, well, that’s just coddling people. No; you reduce the recidivism rate, they pay taxes, it ends up being smart for taxpayers to do.”
Shame on Jerome, if he really wanted a job he could get one. He is playing the victim card. In reality he is only a victim of his own bad decisions. Taxpayers already pay for convicts to be in prison, now Obama wants us to pay to get them a job? Don’t get me wrong, I believe everyone(well, almost everyone) deserves a second chance, but it is not the responsibility of everyone else to provide that second chance.
Now before you start sending me nasty emails saying “you are stupid, and you just don’t understand how hard it is for felons to get a job.” Please allow me to stray from the beaten path for a moment and tell you a bit about my own experience.
I am a convicted felon. Five felonies to be exact. I spent the later part of my teenage years (15-19 years old) as a drug addict. Between ages 18 – 19, I lived out of the back of an Oldsmobile, and skipped around from job to job (i kept getting fired for some odd reason, hmm) to raise money for my heroin habit. I continued this pattern of living until I was finally arrested, charged with 9 felonies, convicted of 5 felonies, and sentenced to 1 year and 2 months in prison. One day, as I was sitting in my cell, I thought to myself, “this isn’t the life I want. I want something better, and I’m going to get.” So I made a plan for what I was going to do when I got out, and I decided to use my time in there wisely by educating myself. I started studying college algebra, then moved on to calculus and finally computer science. I also applied for college while I was in prison, so I could attend as soon as I got out. My release day came, and guess what, I went out and got a job flipping burgers the next day.
I worked the early shift at my new job . Public buses didn’t run that early in the morning(in VA, if you receive a felony conviction you lose your license), so I walked to work, 5 miles, every morning. When my shift was over, I hoped on a bus, and went to the local community college to take a couple of classes. When I got out of class the buses weren’t running so I walked home, 4 miles, every night. This process repeated everyday for 9 months until I finally saved up enough money to pay off all of my court costs, and go through all of the red tape required to get my license back. When I finally got my license and my car back, I went out searching for a new, better job. I found 2 jobs. Who would have thought that a convict could get 2 jobs (Jerome couldn’t seem to find 1 in 29 years). I met a wonderful girl at one of these jobs, and we eventually got hitched! Fast forward 4 years and I am happily married, the proud owner of a brand new home, 6.5 years sober, have a good job, and I am almost done with a bachelors degree in computer science (I pay my own way through school, so I only take as many classes as I can afford).
I told you this story to tell you this. I know it is hard to get a job if you are a felon. I do understand. However, if you are a felon, you are not a victim of society, you are a victim of your actions. It is not the responsibility of tax payers to provide you with a second, it is your responsibility. In the United States there are infinite possibilities for a second chance, but you have to go out and get it. It will not come to you. Don’t let your criminal record hold you back, use it as a lesson in life. If you work hard, pursue your dreams, and strive to be a good citizen, good things will happen. That is the beauty of liberty and freedom, you have every opportunity to pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and get on the right track in life. How could you not love a country that has allowed a drug addicted, homeless convict to become a sober, homeowner, with a beautiful wife, and lives the American dream everyday. God Bless America!
Crossposted from Liberty and Pride
Thank you so much for that post – I was going to comment, but you laid it out perfectly. I didn’t have an experience like yours, but I know of someone who did – it is better told in first-person.
My brother is a convicted felon. He is slowly putting his life back together and I am proud of him.
At first I was a little dismayed at the title. However, after hearing your logic; I agree. I believe strongly that there should be second and third and fourth etc.. chances. We all need them on one level or another. And in fact, I do believe that the only thing that separates me from someone on death row, is the fact they pulled the trigger. But as you said, it is up to that person to strive for that second chance. To achieve it, and make something happen. You can’t really blame democrats for their response (i.e. obamas response to Jerome), because that is what they want. They want a society of dependence. Dependence is good for business. Ask any socialist.
If people stopped needing government programs, then we wouldn’t need democrats would we? I guess as long as people are looking for a free handout, democrats will be alive and well. The hand that feeds the mouth poison.
Well Said Liam. You can think of this situation between democrats and the people much like an overbearing parent and child. If the parent coddles the child throughout life then they will never grow to be strong, independent adults. It really is a shame that there are so many people in the world that expect the government to take care of them. I suspect you are right, as long as these people are around, democrats will be there ready and willing to give them what they want (in exchange for more power of course)
we need to change our drug laws. too many of our youth have records for smoking pot. smoking pot is like smoking cigarettes or drinking beer when we were young. we have crimilized our countrymen with silly prohibition laws. however, the number of law enforcement, lawyers, prison guards, prisons, etc. that these prohibition laws have created is staggering. if the average person can go to their doctor and get pain killers and depressant drugs at will, what is the difference between the effects of street drugs, think oxycotton (sp?).
the money we spend on the drug war , we could build the wall between mexico, canada and america. we could offer rehabilitation for the very same legal drugs and illegal drugs.
remember, in every population in the world, there will always be a percentage of people that will be hooked on something. example, gambling, pornography, alcohol, drugs, prescription drugs, ect.
i fear that the drug bureaucracy that we have created will take a long time to take down.
Hello Sean: I have to admit that I was surprised by your story, which prompted me to post a comment, in the aggregate you make a valid argument, however I want you to think about those individuals that have made mistakes and have been convicted of a felony and do apply for a job and are turned down… Our first reaction would be ‘to bad, you should not have committed the crime!’ Ok fair enough, now what? The stigma that comes with being an ex-felon is tantamount to sinking or swimming when your trying to turn your life around. I agree the government should not subsidize ex-felons for being ex-felons! What I believe your missing is the true meaning of a second chance, if you pay for your crime by being put in prison then when you are released must you continue to pay for your crime? How long does an ex-felon have to be stigmatized, treated like out casts, what about their families, if you spent 1 year in prison and have a felony you have a criminal record for LIFE…Think about this! Your fortunate to have a website and now a bachelors degree, and a loving wife….Great! So do I, and thank God for that, nevertheless we still are stigmatized and will be for LIFE! Now I’m sure I’m better off then most and yes I have two degrees, in Org. Management and Leadership and yes I work for a multinational organziation based in Europe, and yes I have the two cars and big house but I do carry the stigma that you and I share. Perhaps as the years go by and you get older you will understand how much it hurts to keep a secret for something Dumb you did when you were young! The solution in my opinion is found on the Sentencing Project’s website, look up “A blueprint for change.” I’m happy for you and proud (whether you like it or not) becuase there are so many Americans disenfranchised by the laws in this country, think about those ex-felons that do not want a hand-out but want a fair chance, there’s no fair chance as an ex-felon. I have no sypamthy for sex offenders or child molestors, but what about your friend from school that got into drugs and went to jail for selling drugs or using drugs, think about this… If we work towards sealing criminal records after a certain time period of being on the right path this would help our nation and its people in many ways… I’m done.. Oh by the way I’m Conservative and believe in the constitution of this country, not a liberal knuckle head tree hugger. I bleed RED WHITE and BLUE, by I’m also a Christian and believe in redemption. I believe you have to pay for your mistakes, but there has to be an end game! Good Luck!
For the record, my father spent the majority of his life behind bars.
I do not have a felony, but a misdemeanor.
I feel that people do deserve a second chance. Of course, there are limits. I can’t believe I am saying this, but I actually like… Charles Rangel’s Second Chance Act. It requires no violence, no habitual patterns and community service.
It provides a nice carrot to those who are at a crossroad.
I have had issues getting work over a misdemeanor 15 years ago. I am deeply ashamed of it and can’t really believe I am writing this.
I have given back to my community (definitely more than our VP). I have a beautiful wife. I thought it was going to prevent us from adopting our oldest child. And every time I change jobs, it becomes a major stress point for me.
Lucky for me, my employer only requires that you disclose any past indiscretions. If you are honest, you pass the background check. If you aren’t, you don’t. Pretty simple. But, what I would give to have the slate wiped clean.
I certainly understand your point. I do. I also understand that when we are young we make stupid mistakes and learn from them. Considering that the government is doing everything it can to turn citizens into criminals, it would be nice to have the ability to undo one thing in our past.
In addition to expunging one bad act, if you commit another it shows back up. I wouldn’t even mind if I had to pay all the court costs. Keep it off taxpayers rolls. States offer this ability, why not the Federal government?
Jerry Hammond. He was a long time city councilman in Columbus, Ohio back in the late 70s, early 80s, where I grew up. Very well respected gentleman, was in advertising/p.r. for a utility company or insurance company or something. He used to go to elementary schools and talk with kids about staying out of trouble with the law. He would always talk about how he and some friends burglarized a laundromat in Indiana when he was 18. He went to prison for a year, got out and never looked back.*
Ohio at the time permitted convicted felons to vote. Being able to vote and get involved turned his life around. If you want a sure fire way for felons NOT to get reintegrated into society, make it hard for them to get jobs and make sure they cannot vote for school levies, mayor, etc. See how much commitment people have to society when youthful crimes keep them forever on the outside looking in.
* I would skip over the fact that some dumb GOPer who could never outpoll Hammond, more than 10 years after he got on city council, tried to have him removed from office because he was a convicted felon. The GOPer governor of Indiana pardoned Hammond within a week or two and the idiot insurrection died with laughter all around.
@PacoP: Wow, you sure have given me quite a bit to consider. However, I think my post must have been a bit misleading. My intentions were merely to state that it is not the tax payers responsibility to help you find a job, regardless of how hard it is to find one that hires felons. I do believe, however, that it is unnecessarily difficult in many cases for a felon to find a job. I can’t tell you how many times I have passed up applying for a job because the description says “must be able to pass background screening” or “must be able to obtain a security clearance.” Truly, I think it is ridiculous that if you make a mistake when you are young, you will suffer the consequences of that mistake for the rest of your life. In my post above I was aiming to drive the point across that if you are a felon then you will just have to put in the extra effort to turn your life around, but you can’t really on someone else to do it for you. There are consequences for every action. Should someone choose to commit a felony, he should be ready for the possible ramifications of his actions (however excessive they might be). As felons, we must learn to overcome these obstacles in our lives.
That being said, I would be a proponent of any legislation that would seal criminal records after a specified period (sex offenders not included), as long as a set of guidelines are followed by the offender (no repeat offenses, etc…).
Anyways, great comment Paco. You sound like a good person to me. I wish you all the best in life. God Bless.
@PacoP: I meant “rely” not “really” in the comment above. I should really proofread a little better. Its pretty evident that I was not an English major.
I have to say I like the idea of criminal records being sealed after a certain period of time provided that the person doesn’t get in trouble. A period of like ten years. If you can keep your act clean for ten years, then I think that the past should be wiped clean and the records are sealed.
I think that is more than fair. The people who are habitual criminals can’t keep clean but for those that are sincere about starting over and keeping their act clean, that time will give them an incentive for hope. I believe that once someone does they shouldn’t be penalized but I also beleive that society should also be protected. And I think that this is a fair compromise.
TammyL, Sean, I completely agree. The original purpose of our justice system was to punish people who couldn’t make right on the situation you caused. Way back when, if you were caught stealing, for example, you had to pay restitution. If you couldn’t, you were punished.
The problem with today’s criminal justice system, is there are numerous victimless crimes. The state, it seems, wants to make everyone a criminal from drugs to guns.
I look at it this way, when I was sentenced, the judge basically pointed to me and said “You are one of the few I have seen that can turn their lives around.” When asked about my plea, I had the option of 1 or 2 years probation. I asked for the 2 years and my 200 hours of community service.
I have done far better for myself than I expected (in some ways). I have had no run-ins, minus the regular stream of traffic tickets, over the last 15+ years. If I was going to fall back into my old activities, I would have done so long before now.
So, I say give non-violent offenders a second chance, with the expectation if anything ever happened again, both the new conviction(s) and old conviction would be restored.
It seems only right to give those who have made the change to be productive members get the full opportunities afforded them. Strange that I might suffer for a relatively minor indiscretion as a youngster when someone whose crimes were far more serious gets their record expunged simply because it was a state crime versus federal.
Historically, felons lost the right to vote. I think that this was a good idea, particularly if we educate the populace to the point that people know it before they become felons. It should serve as some sort of deterrent to know that you will never be able to participate in the democratic process if you commit a felony. With the rampant ignorance that our public educational system produces today, this benefit is largely lost because most young felons did not learn much of anything in school before they became felons.
Amazing post, Sean. Truly inspirational.
I think Sean story is truly amazing. I now only wish there is a way to verity it. The main question I have with him is that I bet he had a decent childhood that was full of love and a good primary education. I know this because he’s has the foundation built in the area of math and science. If he did not have an early foundation of math and science it would have been really difficult for him to obtain a degree in computer science.
When inner city students do not grasp math and science early on in life its like trying to learn a foreign langage to matter how hard they try. It’s very difficult and I now because I speak from experience.
Call me Shawn
thompson.darrin@gmail.com
@Darrin Thompson: Darren, I suppose I could verify the criminal record. It would, however, be rather difficult, if not impossible, to prove my story to you. As for my childhood, it wasn’t horrible, but it certainly was not full of love. My mother was a chronic divorcee (5 marriages) and an alcoholic. I was primarily raised by my “tough-as-nails” grandmother, who did instill some measure of values and discipline in me, and for that I am extremely grateful. Also, you are correct in your assumption that I have an early foundation in math and science. However, this was not pushed upon me from any parental figure. I took an interest in those to subjects at an early age, and I discovered that I was good at them. I pursued a degree in computer science because that is what is was interested in. Certainly I understand that not everyone is good at these subjects, but everyone IS good at something. It is not necessary for a person to be good at math and science in order to be successful. You should pursue the things that you excel at, rather than dwell on those things that you do not do well. Darrin, if someone has not had a good child hood, or a good educational foundation, so what? We can all find area an that we are talented in, it is up to each person to harness his/her talents, and use them to his/her benefit.
Also, I feel I should mention that my current job has nothing to do with my degree. It started as a 9 dollar an hour labor job, and I worked my way up from there.
All these things aside, I think it is important to realize that the American Dream is not to be extremely successful, with a huge house, and a gorgeous. The American Dream is to be happy, to live how you want to live (within the realm of civility, of course), and to be able to be an independent and free member of a civil society. The true beauty of liberty is that you can pursue any career path you want, you can be as successful as you want, and you can live however you want(again, within reason).
Sean
HI
IM A CONVICTED FELON FOR DRUGS. AFTER TWO YEARS OF BEING CLEAN I STILL CANNOT GET HIRED BECAUSE MY BACKGROUND CHECK COMES BACK WITH DRUG CONVICTIONS. I NOW HAVE A DAUGHTER AND WIFE WHO I LOVE WITH ALL MY HEART. I HOPE OBAMA CAN MAKE A PROGRAM FOR CHANGED GOOD MEN LIKE ME. I WAS YOUNG AN DUMB. BUT NOW HAVE GROWN UP. PLEASE HELP.
THANKS
RAY WEIRICK II
MYLEE AN SARA
MUCH LOVE
According to more than two SJA Officers in my group, if the convictions were State and not Federal, you can petition your Governor for clemency and have restored voting rights as well as the rest. It will also give credibility for being hired for jobs that you may seek in the future. Federal convictions have a higher degree of difficulty but for non-violent offenses it is possible to get adjudication relief.
Just my 2 cents worth on that subject.
I know how it feels when doors are closed because of bad choices made at an early age. I was 18 when I was arrested for agg. battery and agg. robbery. In all it was a fight but none the less. I plead guilty to att agg robbery and served 48 months. For about 6 years I have bounced fromm job to job and job interview to job interview. I took inventory of my life and came to the conclusion that alcohol was a big factor to my down falls. So I quit drinking alcohol. I have been sober for 2 years and 4 months. Within that two years I have been moved up in place of employement. I am the father of a beatiful baby girl (motivation). Recieved an associates degree in accounting. I have changed my degree program to human services and management. I will be moving into my new home on April 15 2010 (closing date). To obtain this I had to get ride of one element and that was alcohol the same substance that landed me in prison for four years and on parole for two years. My next move is to save some money for a lawyer to expunge my felony. The best thing for any felon that reads this is to move forward, shake the undesirable habits and work hard. It is not easy, but patience should have been developed while locked up. Think positive and work the system for the good.
Thanks for sharing, Strongbow. Again Sean, thanks for this post – you brought out some really good comments
@RAY W: Ray, strangely enough, I have gotten hundreds of emails ,from convicted felons about this post (the original post on my site, I cross posted it here) asking me for help with getting a job. I am not a job recruiter, so unfortunately I am not an expert on the matter. I am a firm believer in personal responsibility, and ultimately it is your responsibility to mend the situation you find yourself in…..That being said, I do believe in American values, and I believe that American values include assisting our fellow citizens whenever possible. Good citizenship is a cornerstone of a civil society centered around liberty. Since I have gotten so many requests for help, I am thinking of starting up a web site that contains info about companies that hire felons, available jobs, and other services I can find to assist you with getting a job….If anyone would care to help me out with this just leave a comment on this post.
I’ll post the URL of the site is when I get it up and running…it’ll probably be a month or more (free time is very scarce these days)
@Strongbow: Congrats on the sobriety!!! Keep it up, it gets easier with time. I’ve got almost 7 years under my belt, and using doesn’t even cross my mind. You sound like you’ve really got things together. It’s great to see people turn their lives around!!! Keep it up!
@Brother Bob: Thanks Bob, It really is uplifting to know that people really can change their lives for the better.
@PacoP: I loved what you had to say. I have a daughter that is a felon and I’ve been through the whole job thing with her. When she is released she has to live with me because she is broke. I’ve driven her around to look for those jobs and it’s worn both of us out. So out of despondency and the stigma she carries, she ends up with the people who accept her back and ends up re offending and going back. She is also bi polar. Yeah I know it’s used as an excuse for a lot of bad behavior. However she was that way before she ever took a drug. The drug use exacerbated it certainly but didn’t cause it. I was a single working mother, trying to make ends meet so I didn’t catch it like I wish I had of. Now I am a grand mother and raising my grand daughter when I should be retiring and reaping the rewards of having been a viable citizen and tax payer for years. People need that second chance. There are so many felons out there out of work with too much time on their hands and so much negativity. I can tell you that prison does not rehabilitate. It makes you a better , more bitter criminal. So if you think people are getting their just deserts, then don’t complain when you become a victim. We need a better plan. I’m writting my congress people offering my help.
I never had a felony, but my bf does.
Yes a felon can find a job, but the question is how long? My bf only held a job for 1 year before they terminated him because they no longer needed him and he was lucky when he was offered that job. He hasn’t had a job since in 4 years.
With the downfall of the economy and google, it is now harder to get a job without that felony following him. It’s been 10 years for him and he’s 31 without a decent career, education, or anything. Maybe years ago finding a job was a bit easier, I don’t know, but it’s surely difficult now more than ever.
You may have gotten your life turned around, but it may be harder for other felons. I’ve heard 1 successful story out of 90 unemployment stories from other felons. Some people got lucky. Others not.
Well look at the stats…. most convicted felons never get the chance to get back on track… i don’t know about you, but i was convicted at 17 as an adult for a non violent crime… I was in college a year away from my degree in education, but as my senior year camearound i was told i could not complete me degree because the board of education would dismiss and applicant if he or she was convicted as a felon. I came back to my home town bounced around a couple of jobs. I then landed the only job a felon could get in my town and survive. They made railcars. The pay was good but it was a stressful job and too think i was on honor roll and had dreams, now i had a jobs with all the people i grad. with that had not dreams after high school. So it’s not playing a victim card it is a fact. It is really hard for felons to find jobs now that we are in a modern era depression. Who the hell do you think they are going to hire. A felon or a non felon….. no matter which is better suited the job the non felon will get the job 9 times out of 10 if not 10 out of 10. If you are lucky enough to have friends or family that have connections to get you a good job, but those are far and few. What pisses me off the most is i went to school and would have had my degree and teaching by now, but no because of a mistake i did almost 9 years ago and can’t get any job paid thorugh the state or federal government. Any body got any ideas?? email me rmb_103@hotmail.com
@ Ryan B
I’m sure that this will sound harsh to you, but my principal suggestion to you is to recognize that you messed up, and the consequences of that will be with you forever. Now you have to figure out how to make the most of your life in spite of that, but that is up to you. No body owes you anything.
You indicate that you got a good bit of education, that you were close to having a degree. You might look into the possibility of completing that degree at another institution. You should also consider what can you do with the education you have, even if you have no degree. The education itself has value, even without the piece of paper, if you find a creative way to make use of it. You don’t say what are it was in, so there is no way to help you with ideas here.
There is no reason you need to be looking for a job through the state or federal government. Show some initiative and look for work in the private sector. That would mean real work, as opposed to a feather bed job, but it would also mean a chance to make something of yourself.
At this point, it is entirely in your hands. You can feel sorry for yourself, say that life is unfair, that it was “mistake” (rationalization), etc. in which case you will go nowhere but down. You can take a serious inventory of what you have to work with, think hard about how to make the best use of your assets, and go work hard. You have a chance to do well, but you are going to have to work extra hard because of your “mistake” as you like to call it (foul up might be a lot closer to the truth).
I too was convicted of a non violent felony in 99. I served 5 yrs. probation and have had no arrest since. In my state the only way to remove a felony from your records is an expongement. The only way to exponge a felony is by getting a pardon from the governor. Now the governor has pardoned about 120 people in 36yrs. If you do the math thats about 4 people a yr.
The only other way is to change the expongement law. The only way to do that is contact one of your state senators or rep’s and have them write a bill (to change the code) or you can write your own and have them sponsor it. In my state I do have voting rights. I didn’t find that out until recently so I would also do some research on your state laws. Voting on this issue is the only way it will change. I don’t want a check from uncle sam, I just want to be equal.
Go here and you can sign my petition to my state congress and create one for yours. Cheers….
http://www.change.org/petitions/view/west_virginia_felony_second_chance
To Dr D,
My degree was suppose to be for education and my felon was for withholding infomation on a burgarly that i did not commit, but had knowledge of. Funny the minors that were 16 that actually did commit the crime never got a felony they got miser. I didn’t commit the crime just had knowledge and i was 2 weeks past my 17th birthday which was considered an adult and they never offered me a plea because the others were only 16 and gave them pleas. As far as working hard my friend i’ve done my fairshare. You work in a job with weld dust, a job where 5 people got killed on my shift in little over a year. Please my friend any advice would help, but make sure it’s legit not just a personal suggestion.
@Ryan B: Ryan B, I would respond to your first comment, but Dr. D already said everything I would say….I will say this though, I think you are dumbing yourself down a bit. I think what you have to realize is that you can achieve the same success as anyone else, but you may have to work harder to do so. It’s not a matter of whether you can. It’s a matter of, “are you willing to do what you have to do?”
RYAN B: hi, MAKE SURE you get the info, why thoses fellows died and, that will help to secure your own way of doing that hard job, make sure you take the time to always have the right clothing on, and the best shield always a good investment,nothing made in china, and you must be alert on that kind of work, it takes less than a second to get cripple on flying debris; I know because i do stainglass and i used welding to assemble so take care. bye 🙄
RYAN B: may SUGGEST learning you degrees on internet, there are some academics you can search for the one you want,you of work time could be worth the time spending, as i feel you are quite young, and it would benefit on the future, that will bring you lots of good feelings more than bad feelings. bye 🙄
RYAN B: also there are degrees on academic you can find in the internet,it would be usefull for your future, on your offwork time to learn:you seems to be young and the future is your’s to achieve all kinds of good things; you know, the hardest thing happen when your young, it’s a learning process, but it takes a while,and you find it will be easyer more and more, all kinds of goodys will come your way when it’s du to come, we cannot force it but with positive and hope wanting it to come,it will . bye
OLD TROOPER: i just notice your comment, so full of the right words, as always; bye 🙄
Ryan
My brother had a very similar happenstance (but worse), and he petitioned the court to espunge his record. It worked, and he got his on with his life. At worse, you’re right where you are now, at mid-level, your felony can be reduced to a misdemenor, and at best, you’ll have it dropped.
As a side-note, have your eyes checked every year for weld-dust accumulation, which can lead to blindness…My brother in-law came close, but caught it in time. Many eye-doctors over-look the inspection, which involves looking very deep in the lower eyelid, so inform them of what your job entails, and flush your eyes every evening and morning from nose-side to temple-side.
@Ryan B
You will have to look into your state laws.My state law will not expunge a felony without a pardon from the governor.Contact your states governors office and ask them for a Governor clemency application, fill it out and wait. But be aware the governor rarely pardons anyone. If that doesn’t work the law will need changed. Hope this helps.
Sean,
Things are much harder these days for convicts. Practically every job application asks if you’ve even had a misdeamor, let alone felony! I question how you bought a house in four years? Did you have family money? Because nowadays, a felon could just not do it! Quit bragging about yourself! YOU did NOT do it alone, so don’t think others can either!
We have created a facebook group to hopefully one day have criminal records looked at as credit records are looked at. You make a mistake, big, small, whatever, but how long should you have to pay for it? Does an employer need to know you were riding in a stolen car when you were 19 years old 17 years ago? The word theft is ugly in the employment world but you will have that label forever. It doesn’t seem fair and we believe we can change that. Please if you nave a facebook page join the group and tell family and friends as well.
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?topic=108&post=414&uid=131733900186001#!/group.php?gid=131733900186001 Sorry. Link didn’t appear in my post. Second Chances for Convicted Felons.
Well, I found this site to be very upsetting because I commend the President for acknowledging the “falling”. I consider convicted felons as the falling because once you get a stain or scar like a felony you are cast out. Cast out of a full life. I personally wear the scar and everytime I fill out an application for a job or an apartment I shutter… and Sean I guess it’s easy to accept your charges because you had chances to avoid your convictions. But for others who may have made one bad decision at one particular time and have to be branded for life is unjust. Your convictions may have changed your life for the good but mine has almost killed me so I guess my conviction is my drug that caused me to hit rock bottom. I don’t want a hand out I went to college and have a B.A. I just want to put a different face the horrible, destructive, identity of a “FELON”.
@ FREEDOM — “just one bad decision at a particular time” was it? Was it really the only bad decision you ever made, or was it the one where you got caught?
If it was truly “just one bad decision” then that would put you in a truly elite group, the exceedingly small group that got caught on the first time. For most felons, getting caught is simply the culmination of a string of lesser bad decisions leading up to the one where they get caught.
In any event, you did get caught and convicted in what we presume was a fair trial. You do not mention being unfairly convicted. Society takes felony crimes seriously, and it permanently marks those who commit them with an indelible stain. This is intended to be a deterrent to others, and now, since you were not deterred, you have to bear that burden to try to warn others. It is a CHOICE YOU made; now you have to live with it. Please stop your whining.
Other felons have gone on to make productive lives for themselves and you can do so also. It is hard and takes more work. That is as it should be and is consistent with the CHOICE YOU made.
If you find this web site upsetting, it is probably because it asks you to face the facts, rather than giving you a lot of sympathy for your destructive choice. You chose to do something against society, now society has marked you. That is life; deal with it. You can move on and make something of yourself in spite of what you have done, or you can forever be first and foremost a felon. The choice also is yours.
@Tammy: Huh? Are you telling me that it is impossible for a convicted felon to get his life back on track by himself? Dang, I didn’t get that memo. I guess I’ll just have to flush all my independent accomplishments down the toilet, and become a societal leech. After all, I can’t do it by myself right?
Well, you know what Tammy, you are absolutely correct on one thing. YOU cannot do it by yourself, but I can..and I did. Anyone who is of the opinion that she cannot succeed on her own, is bound to fail. As for those that are determined to make a better life for themselves…they will.
IT’S TOO BAD that drug taking cannot be used as a reasonable excuse, when someone get caught doing some of any degree of criminal activity; BUT it ‘s not accepted by the judge; Although we know that drugs used, is the culprit, and it can alter your brain,and your consciense to erase the inner knowledge of choosing which is good or bad, so this should be learn and remembered by the young starting to spread their wing toward their future. bye
No, it is not too bad that taking drugs is not accepted as an excuse for criminal activity. There is no excuse for criminal activity.
Taking drugs, any drugs, that make a person unable to control himself is simply irresponsible and they need to accept the fact that they remain responsible for what they do, even when they have chosen to impair themselves. That is life. None of us gets an exemption from responsibility. We must all get used to it and accept it. The process is called maturity.
Going to prison, successfully completing probation, staying clean, etc. these are accepting responsibility. A life sentence of less than adequate opportunities is cruel and unusual punishment.
Yippie, you are one of the small few that find a very to be very very successful after a conviction. It is like a powerball winner saying people should stop crying about not being rich because they are picking the wrong powerball numbers. Not that you got lucky, you worked hard I am sure, but like the man that can never be a teacher. I think that is rediculous. Crime is unrelated to the job, it was many years ago, and he paid his debt to society.
Again, you are the high and mighty, you made it Dr D so you can talk down on us struggling to find what you found as if we do not try but the reality is you can declare bankruptcy and screw creditors for 1000s/millions even, and that disappears in 10 years but not a crime worth substantially less.
Get off your high horse. Good for you, you made it. Now let’s talk reality not about how great you are and not ambitious enough we are.
DR.D: I must say i agree with you, it was the way I phrase my comment, I should have find another adjective[ that’s french], but it meant what you said better than me. bye
@ Kelly Lord: I said nothing at all about myself, and it is wrong for you to infer anything about me. I am not looking down on anyone, but only saying that society has rules for a purpose, and those rules must be sustained. They cannot be arbitrarily set aside just because you think that you, or someone else, has a good case. The rules are there to protect society. The rules have been established by the common wisdom of society over the ages, and we break them at our peril. Modern society has shown a major tendency to disregard the wisdom of the past, and in every instance, the results have been disaster.
Your powerball statement was foolishness. The only thing I can say to anyone about powerball is quit; it is a foolish waste of your money. Use what money you have more wisely than that. If you are throwing money away on powerball or any other form of gambling, then you deserve to fail again and again.
You whine, “… but the man can never be a teacher.” Do you not see the reason for this? Teachers are examples to impressionable young people. He has demonstrated without any doubt what sort of an example he is capable of being. He may not do it again, but he has demonstrated that he is fully capable of doing it. Society prefers to try to find people to teach that we believe to be incapable of these crimes (at least so believed until proved otherwise).
What ever it was that he was going to teach, presumably he can simply go do in real life, provided it is something of actual value (not angry studies). The world has not ended, but the course of his life has definitely shifted because of a choice that he made. This happens every day to everyone of us, including you and me. You are cut off today from opportunities you had yesterday, even though you may no realize it. Even so, it has happened because you did not actively pursue them yesterday.
Get over being angry at me. All I am doing is speaking the truth which you evidently do not want to hear at this time. This is not about me, but about the felon and society; that is all.
@Dr. D yes whether you find it hard to believe or not the facts remain the same that, that was my first and only time getting into any trouble. It happens regardless of what you think. F.Y.I. I’m not a drug addict or don’t have a problem with alcohol (I completed a 10 yr. Probation sentence and never been to prision) I have completed college and now I’m finding it hard to get a job. Even one that I’m over qualified for… I don’t want a hand out I want to be judged for the good that I have done for myself. I know what hard work is and I’m actually willing to work even harder but I want to get a job I deserve. So… I guess I am a rare situation but I know there are more even if you don’t know them Dr.D. People are shame to admit the bad decisions they’ve made and I’m sure you have done something in your life that you may be shame of whether you are “labeled” or not.
First I apologize for the personal attack. Bad judgement in my case. I agree all societies have rules and they are for a reason but that doesn’t mean they are just and right. IMHO he demonstrated he could make a stupid mistake like a lot of kids do. George Bush is accused on using cocaine on more than one time. Is that not a felony? The difference between me and G Dub is I got caught, he didn’t. Beings he didn’t get caught in the act of committing his felony he is allowed not only to vote but to become president. I can’t even vote because I got caught. 17 years ago. I do not have the same decision making process I did 17 years ago from experience. I learned lessons. Still learning. One lesson I am learning daily is forgiveness. To not of been forgiven by society I am a more forgiving person.
I find it very hard to believe you can not empathize with a frustrated felon. For the record I am not living at home in my 30s, nor do I have a 400 credit score.
The beginning of my frustration started after scoring the highest on 4 apptitude tests than any other applicant, and successfully passed three interviews to take a job that paid about a third of what I was making at the time. The reason I wanted the job was for the tuition reimbursement. I received a letter of hired upon passing a drug screen and background check. I was open in the interview. I told them 17 years ago such and such happened. They said well you are well qualified, we like you etc etc. Their call is yes, was impressed about my resume and turning my life around, etd. but there will be a final decision made by someone higher up the corporate ladder in regards to the criminal background.
So I started googling and asking around and a lot of people have this issure. Old records that haunt them to this day. Some only misdermeanors.
Again back to the bankruptcy analogy. So if the rules of society are there for a reason and it seems that you find them fair, would you say it is ok to be irresponsible with your credit, shop to you drop, etc etc then declare Chapter 7 BK, NEVER pay back your debt and 10 years later it disappears like it never happened? That is the rule. I feel criminal records should be treated more like credit records. After 7 years bad credit comes off, BKs and civil judgements in 10 years.
Granted, murderers, rapists, serious assaults, and other very serious crimes should be a judgement of one’s character for a long time if not ever. Certain things you can never give back to society like a life or the loss of sleep a woman may go through after someone breaks in to her home and rapes her. Some young adult getting caught with weed, or breaking in to a building, and plenty of other examples of crimes that could be paid back or as in the case of the teenage weed smoker, well that’s another episode regarding personal freedoms. As I was saying, a repayable crime shouldn’t be a mark of one’s character forever. Mistakes, dumb choices, lack of proper rearing as a child, poverty, prior drug addiction, and other motivating factors make people make decisions they otherwise wouldn’t or after going through the system may decide they will never partake in those types of events ever again. Time will tell if their good intentions were honest. Assuming they were then we as a society should forgive them and treat them as forgiven persons and allow them the same pursuits as those never caught doing their wrong doings.
This is simply one man’s opinion. Myself, I am in sales, make close to a six figure commissioned based pay, and have a lot of nice things. I am great at sales, I just do not like it. I would like to pursue another career, the one of my choice will never happen if the rules of society stand in regards to forever punishing those that committed crimes regardless of how old they are.
To Dr.D you hit it right on the nail a felony will be on your record for life because some politician thought that it would be a deterrent to crime. But what you don’t understand is that the would be criminal doesn’t know the law. And once the person commits the crime they are bound by the law (and because they will be limited by which jobs they can find) now acts as a incentive to crime. The only way your defense would make sense is if we sent our kids to law school before kindergarten. And when a felon who tried to clean his life up and society spits in his face and he reverts to his old ways ,steals your car or sells your kids drugs. Blame yourself because its your fault.
To Sean
I believe you are untruthful. I don’t believe that you have been convicted of a felony. The reason I feel this way is why would a convicted felon not want to remove his felony from his record? I too am a convicted felon who has managed to turn my life around. But wanting to keep the felony on my record would make me an idiot. Are you an idiot?
@Jake: Ummm…please point out to me where I said I don’t want the felonies off of my record? Under the laws of my state I can’t petition for a pardon until 5 years after completion of probation, which for me will be 2013. At which point I will do so, until then I can’t do anything, but I don’t let that stop me from living my life. I don’t sit around and blame society for my problems, when I am the one that caused them.
By the way, you charged to Dr. D, that because of the current laws it is the victims fault when a convicted felon re-offends….and you’re the one calling me an idiot?