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@Hard Right: forgot to mention INRE your “time to ban” comment…..
Nope. Not in the least, as far as I can see. I have no problem with dissent opinions. Only problems with those who project themselves as articulate and learned, while simultaneously parroting talking points with no substance… just Alinsky “fire ’em up” emotions.
Besides, all cats need rodents and snakes with which to play.
Hard Right
14 years ago
I notice brainded rob didn’t post a single link supporting his fantasy world. I’m not shocked since the mentally ill like himself are allergic to facts and reality itself.
As for the teabagger comment, you must think we are as stupid as you to buy the BS excuse you posted. Like I said, if this was my site, you’d be gone for that alone. That’s besides the fact you are really just a troll.
I find it amusing “people” like you only seem to call names when you think you are safe. One on one I’ve found the behavior of libs to be rather different…more…cowardly.
MATA while I disagree with his POV, that isn’t my problem. When a vulgar name is used that is crossing a line as far as I’m concerned.
While I disagree with Larry W, I don’t want him banned. I have very little tolerance for the KOS types and b-rob is definitely one of them.
That’s the point, HR…. billy bob blows BS and emotions. We return fire with facts and statistics. He claims the high road, apparently only contenting himself with such an easy criteria to meet. The contrast is readily apparent, and is not a point in his favor.
As far as “vulgar” names goes, unfortunately the TB reference to which he refers is becoming a main stream term. I’m not much on labels, so I’m not going to let that deter me from the heart of the argument. That I will address. Parsing words? A “distraction” from the issue, as “let me be clear” Obama likes to say. When you get diverted in BS piddly ass stuff, you lose factual momentum.
I can deal with billy bob. The real question would be, can billy bob deal with his erroneous forecasts of a rosy future under Obama’s spending frenzy?
@IndieDogg… so sorry to have missed your “question” INRE our early patriots. Instead of concentrating on who our Founders were and what they did for a living, let’s revisit what happened to those who signed the Declaration of Independence. And yes… it’s the version from Snopes so no one can claim it’s pure conjecture. Less dramatic than the email versions, but the repercussions of aiding revolution are nonetheless pointed.
It is these same men (and families), who were punished by the British Empire, and/or the rebellion for freedom, for being at the heart of this nation and it’s frame for personal freedoms and limited goverment. It is in the company of these with these men that I consider myself in my (lack of) demands from government. Lawyers like billy bob would, of course, be representing the British Empire, and busy “alinsky’izing” those dissenting voices, leading the verbal lynch mobs (ironic, eh billy bob?).
If you haven’t read the fate of the 56 signers and their families… or re’read it in awhile… it’s always worth a gander. And far superior to what they did for a living.
B-Rob, I think many people within the youth of this country are subscribing to the left wing doctrine because if one disagrees (especially at a college), that person may experience some form of mistreatment and may be labeled an outcast. In this generation of mine, it is easier to get along if you just go along.
The second I start debating liberal friends in college, they really get emotional, even when I haven’t gotten to the point yet. This is stifling discussion, and makes it a challenge for me to want to continue offering them my care and friendship. Of course, it’s not always like this. Like when one of my friends who got angry at me because he failed to get me to lose my calmness during a debate on the Iraq war woke me with a phone call at one in the morning because he had a little too much to drink with the Gammas, I was his designated driver home.
Besides, losing the support of college students is hardly a loss. Most of the time, they learn and they start to harbor different beliefs as they get older. Plus, approximately half the country remains conservative, and the more you poll people with degrees, the more you’ll find people with a right of center lean in their politics.
I will agree with you that Europe is a great place. There are people that I grew close enough with there that I consider them close enough friends that I would take bullets for them. My heroes aren’t just Navy SEALs. The British SAS are also a large inspiration in my life.
However, despite the fact that I find many things that I like about Europe, I find it safe to say that it has its downs just like we do. For example, less than 23 percent British, and 26 percent Germans have access to the meds that prevent Atheromas (arterial blockage leading to a myocardial infarction or stroke, can also be called atherosclerosis) such as the statins. Whereas, the U.S. has plenty of the statins and gives some to the Europeans and the Canadians. Some 56 percent of Americans who could benefit from the statins have them, and one of the main reasons why it isn’t much higher isn’t because of poor insurance or because the statins are expensive, but because many don’t know that they need it yet. The Europeans also enjoy twice the amount of waiting time for medical assistance than we do.
However, using the flaws that Europe is resiliently striving to change in debates with people who support a government run health care service isn’t why college students choose to be liberal. Many just choose to go along to fit in, and in many cases, students get a one sided story of every political discussion in the classroom.
One sided as in, on the left side of the aisle. Its like a subliminal message in a movie. The people who are running the film repeatedly flash pictures of cola in between frames making you thirst for it, and the first person who caves in just helps pull everyone on the band wagon. When teachers repeat one sided talking points memos, it gets ingrained on the psyche of the audience and the people begin to believe it. When a kids friends begin to believe it, it gets even harder to resist, and dissent. Overall, the parroting of left wing talking points by professors and most college students buying into it has the same effect as a subliminal message in a movie.
One professor in my college just got in trouble for trying to make students who may have voted for Prop 8 banning gay marriage into villains. Despite the fact that the in class discussions on Prop 8 were largely peaceful from both conservatives who supported the proposition and liberals who opposed it. In a fit, the professor brought guest speakers into the classroom to slam the people who voted for the proposition.
Students of both sides of the debate wanted to leave the classroom because they felt this attack was wrong and immoral and that the professor had poor judgment in doing this to the class. In the schools coyote chronicle paper, some conservative students who felt Prop 8 was the right way to go still had nice things to say about the professor, the liberal students who had friends who were conservatives in support of Prop 8 said the students “didn’t deserve the bashing and the disrespect.” This is one example of teachers trying to taint learning by sneaking their political views into the lesson.
@Hard Right: It does serve a useful purpose to have some of these George Soros trained parrots around. They are always nasty, like BLOB, and suffer from a lack of intellectual integrity (which Aye continues to demonstrate).
No one would believe us if we told them what a piece of work parrots like BLOB are. We have to show them.
And I am grateful that Mata, Aye and now Ryan are willing to debunk his idiocy. Of course they know that BLOB will never admit he is wrong. Frankly, I’d rather spend the time developing new posts to reach a more receptive audience than arguing with one lefty loon, but hey, that’s me.
Another good example of a repeated fallacy that can act like a subliminal message when constantly rehashed is the claim that Bush gave the credit of the 9-11-01 terrorist attacks in New York and Washington D.C. to Saddam Hussein. Yet, five days after the attacks, the Bush Administration confirmed that Al Qaeda was responsible, as they’ve been telling the news outlets prior that Al Qaeda was the one they were suspecting.
Around the same time, when Cheney was interviewed by Russert, he was asked if Saddam was linked to the attacks in which he replied “no.” Then again, in July and September of 2002 prior to the Congresses vote to put the Joint Authorization Resolution for military action in Iraq into law, Rice, Cheney, and Bush all have reiterated that 9-11 wasn’t done by Iraq. Rice and Cheney said it in separate televised interviews, and Bush said it while giving a speech. It’s nice to have this confirmed in black and white at FactCheckdotOrgs archives. The false notion that Bush gave Saddam credit for 9-11 can finally lay in the grave that it dug itself.
Of course, this does not change the fact that Al Qaeda had a presence in Iraq prior to the war, and that they were operating with Ba’ath military officers, which shortly after Clinton dropped out of her 2008 presidential bid, Harry Reid admitted. Yet, the false claim that Bush made 9-11 Saddam’s responsibility has led to the multiple repetitions of another, the falsely repeated claim that Iraq’s Ba’ath party couldn’t have operated with Jihadist terror groups because they were secular.
Never mind the widely reported fact that he was spending money on building mosques in addition to building his palaces, and the fact that he chose a side in a religious war between the Sunni and the Shia that was tearing up his country. None of which are secular actions. This false statement gives the people who oppose our country using military intervention in other countries (especially in Iraq) the subliminal message that they can brush aside historical context to keep their political views in tact.
Looking at the history of Pan Arabism and the origins of the Ba’ath party, despite the Ba’ath partys original stance of secularism, Iraq’s Ba’athists have a long history of getting involved with the mosques. During Saddams tenure as president of Iraq and prior to, the Ba’ath members in Iraq were known to lend their hand to the members of the mujahideen al shura group who were operating in Iraq (but not exclusively). Iraqi Ba’athist support of mujahideen religious fighters during the 1950’s and on made Gamal Abdel Nasser (the founder of Pan Arabism, the movement that gave rise to the Ba’ath party being found in Demascus in 1940) uneasy, and up until Saddam was removed from power in 2003 it made the Ba’athists in Syria and the Asads a political opposition to the Ba’ath party of Iraq.
To summarize it plainly, sure the Ba’ath party is supposed to be secular as a result of its Pan Arab roots, but Iraqs Ba’ath party wasn’t secular before or during Saddam’s presidency. In fact, they would rarely adhere to the partys secularism and its Pan Arab roots so long as Saddam was a key member of it. Now that they have a second chance to be involved in Iraqs government and to be involved in its elections, maybe now they can follow the Ba’ath partys Pan Arab roots and be: secular, peaceful, and in support of Muslim nationalism (not separatism). The ball is in their court, and they can finally get it right for the first time in 25 years.
When I said earlier that repeating a talking points memo has the same effect as a subliminal message, these two often repeated though debunked claims are very good examples of this effect taking place. Of course, there are many examples, but these two are the ones that tend to come to my mind the most considering the pervasiveness of these claims in discussions regarding the current military campaign to hunt and catch terror groups.
Someone mentioned Marianne Williamson down stairs and how she is upset with obama whom she voted for..so I looked up her face book and dropped this bomb in it.
Her face book says: Where does a democrat go? If obama desn’t grow a spine… http://www.wikio.com/comment/?infoid=158794764
Personally, I’ll never be a dem ever again.
My response was:
You voted for the spineless liar not me. Ya know where you can go. Go to hell. He stole the Dem party so no real dem has anywhere to go. How’s that? He intends to take this country down. Thanks alot bozo. You are a simpleton and hardly the mystic you claim to be. You are thoughtless and empty-headed. He told every single one of you what he was going to do and you didn’t listen. You imagined what you wanted him to be. He intends to take this country down. He is not for America. You and people like you have voted in a fascist. Don’t believe me just wait and see. Ask God to forgive you for ruining this country. You will have to pay. It’s only going to get worse so you have only one choice. Apologize to the patriots of this country for what you did and denounce this evil man. God is pissed at you and the likes of you. This is God’s country and you aided and abetted it’s demise by voting in this rotten nincumpoop. He is evil down to his soul and his wife is too. He’s looting the treasury right under our noses.
See what this retired writer of the village voice, the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Commonwealth, the New Republic, the Atlantic and the New Yorker, has to say about this evil nincumpoop who is ruining America on PURPOSE. It’s no surprise to anyone who didn’t vote for the phoney nincumpoop. We warned you but you would not listen. You are the guilty ones and you have BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS. Wait and see. http://www.rutherford.org/Oldspeak/Articles/Interviews/oldspeak-Hentoff_2009.html
Mr. Irons
14 years ago
I can deal with billy bob. The real question would be, can billy bob deal with his erroneous forecasts of a rosy future under Obama’s spending frenzy?
I would have to say, Mataharley, that the ingenious B-Rob is taking his cues and mannerisms from the infamous Saul Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals” manifesto. The core rules for dealing with debates, as detailed in the book, is to verbaly insult your opposition and use confusing and conflicting sources of information which is not yet acredited to be true to dismantle the real data and facts.
I hate the book, but I have been skimming though a copy of it to understand it and to see what weaknesses to these rules have and so far the only weakness this book has is: The Truth. Even if a certain point,person, or event is polarized and attacked, the truth of the matter from the defending side has to be expressed loudly and go on the offense to challenge the authenticity of the polarized attack’s sources and facts.
B-Rob
14 years ago
@ Mike — two more posts and you still have not answered my question . . . and neither has anyone else.
You all think life is going to suck under Obama. I get it. I remember in 1992, noted conservative political theoretician Mike Ditka introduced a failed GOPer Illinois senatorial candidate by predicting something akin to “If Bill Clinton is elected, we will end up a third world country.” Ditto the GOPers who, lock step, opposed Clinton’s 1993 tax increases with predictions that we would go into a never ending recession and tax revenues would shrink. These dire GOPer predictions, in my view, have two separate roots: (a) an abjectly flawed understanding of the business cycle and the effects of taxation, and (b) wishful thinking — that the economy gets so bad under a Dem that no one wants to vote Dem for 20 years.
On the flawed economic thinking, you can see it in con attitudes toward taxes. Cons think you can cut taxes today and increase spending today, but the magic revenue fairy will give you even higher tax revenues tomorrow. How’d that work out under Bush, y’all? Cons also think that any tax cut increases revenues and any tax increase decreases demand on the supply side. But what they have no concept of is price inelasticity. Stated simply, if you put a 5 cent per gallon tax on cows milk, no one stops buying milk and shifts to soy milk. Put a 30 cent tax and some people might slink away, but some never will. Same thing at 40 cents. But to push tax cuts as end all and be all, cons work from the theoretical perspective that everyone sits up nights thinking about the marginal tax rate of this or that. It simply does not work that way.
Ditto the revenue side. Tax cuts do not produce higher revenues. Want proof? Name me every state that has decided to deal with the current fiscal crisis by cutting their tax rates. It is a short list of “zero” I would bet. In fact, if that were so, no Red State would have a tax rate above a microscopic percentage, like .005%.
On the wishful thinking side — conservatives have a grand theory of how government should run; but they simply have no working models to show how great things can be in a con eutopia. Liberals can point to Sweden or France or England as their preferred model . . . all functioning socialized democracies with high life expectancies, first world technology, etc. Cons, however, have no country of their own, and no workable conservative states that anyone would want to emulate. Texas? 46th in health care, poor pollution controls and shocking crime and teen parenting rates, with public schools are hopelessly segregated and that, in a word, suck bigtime. Mississippi, Alabama, South Carolina . . . do I even have to finish the sentence?
So cons are left to rail against how things “would be better” under con theories of government and how liberal theories suck. The worst thing in the world for cons, though, is a well functioning economy under a liberal . . . it simply f’s up their thinking. Which explains why, even in the face of the economy OBVIOUSLY turning around now, I see people on this board expecting, hoping and praying for the worst. It is why Mike refuses to say whether he would want to see 6% unemployment in October (which will help the Dems) or 10%. His silence, and the doom and gloom here and on con talk radio, of course, answers my question. Sean Hannity and Glen Beck and Rush have convinced you all that America is “being destroyed by the enemy from within”; any facts that show that things are getting better simply don’t register because in your mind, Obama and the Dems “should not be successful.” But all the numbers point to a continued recovery . . . and you cons can’t stand it!
I won’t even get into the fact that Obama, a student of Reagan, refuses to be pessimistic or scared about anything, leaving it to conservatives to play the Chicken Little role. And I won’t get into the complete absence of any actual alternatives offered by conservatives. Instead, I see nothing but spittle flying from the right wing. Sad . . . .
B-Rob
14 years ago
Ryan —
I get the stats on statins. But until the French, Belgian, British systems have WORSE life expectancies, more malpractice, and fewer individuals with insurance, the US system will still fail to measure up.
I live in a town, Cleveland, with strong, internationally know health care facilities. My next door neighbor, a urologist, travels to the Persian Gulf region to treat patients. The hotel near where I work has been taken over by by some royal family from the Gulf. It is a great town to get sick in. But if you don’t have insurance, you go to county hospital, which is going broke, of course, treating the uninsured. Other local hospitals have gone under for the same reason. Go a bit south of me, into Appalachia, and the health care outcomes are at Third World levels. The socialized countries simply don’t have those issue and, as a result, they have a better system. As it was once described — our system consists of islands of excellence in a sea of mediocrity. It is why, when compared to Canada, England, Germany, France, etc., our numbers simply SUCK.
Unless and until cons come up with some construct that deals with these issues, the only option will be a Canada-like, or Britain-like system. And forget about “tax credits” — if you don’t have a job, you can offer as many tax credits as you want and I still won’t be able to buy coverage. And even if I have them money, I can;t get coverage if I have a pre-existing condition. How does a tax credit help then? It doesn’t. Nope . . . the Obama bill will have some significant impact; but if it does result in 30 million people having coverage and preventative care who would not otherwise have that, you cons will have a tough row to hoe explaining why it should not pass at all.
Flyovercountry
14 years ago
B-Rob,
What a small world it truly is. I also live in the Cleveland area, and am from West Virginia, (what I believe you feferenced as apalachia.) I have a lot of family currently living in Canada, (Toronto and Hamilton.) You are being a lot dis-honest here. Those without health insurance are able to qualify for medicaid. I know quite a few social workers in the area, both with the county, and with Berea Family Children’s Home. The hospitals are not going broke, but are consolidating. Mercy Hospital closed due to a lack of patients choosing their facility, the same thing happened to Deaconess. Simply put, other larger, newer, and better run hospitals were operating very close to both Mercy and Deaconess. As for the crisis in West Virginia, it comes down to tort reform. Doctors refuse to practice in West Virginia because the tort laws are insanely slanted towards the plantiff. I beleive we, “Cons,” have been yelling about tort reform for years. Using Canada’s model for health care, or Britians for that matter is simply idiotic. When my Uncle Richard was diagnosed with Leukemia, he drove to Buffalo, and sought treatment in the U.S. It seems that the wonderful Canadian system saw fit to place him on a 9 month wait list for treatment. He would have been dead by the time a doctor could treat him. By the way, he had to be diagnosed in Buffalo as well, as his symptoms were not deemed worthy of investigation by the understaffed and resourced Canadian System. As for England, 57% of British citizens have admitted to performing Woodshed tooth extractions. Beeing from Cleveland, I am sure you know who Triv is. He has a saying which is my favorite. “Don’t pee on my head and tell me it’s raining.”
TammyL
14 years ago
@B-Rob: I don’t think life is going to suck while Obama is in power. None of the stuff he is proposing will go into effect until after he leaves. I think it is going to suck for our children and their children. You can’t keep spending money you don’t have and expect it to magically disappear. We are in debt. Debt means money you don’t have, you have borrowed. Sometime later it will have to be paid back.
I also am increasingly concerned with the increasing role of government. I like my freedom. I want my children to have the same freedom that I have, the same freedom of opportunity that currently exists. I don’t want to live as Europeans do. I don’t want my children to live as they do. I lived in Germany for three years. Gas prices are outrageous. The cost of insurance and owning your own vehicle is beyond the means of ordinary citizens for the most part. The cost of groceries is highter than I have ever been used to. The Germans pay more taxes out of their paycheck than any Americans do. They have to pay for health care (surprise it is not free), universal day care, and the many,many other programs.
I am currently struggling to make ends meet on our current income. If my tax rate would jump up another twenty to thirty percent to cover health care and the many many more programs that they want to enact, my family will go under. And so will many others.
And if you are naive enough to believe any government official who says that they won’t raise taxes, I have a bridge to sell you. They never raise your taxes at first. They wait until you become dependent upon them and their services, and then they gouge you.
There is a reason you keep government as small and as less intrusive as possible. And Obama and the Democrats and the rogue Republicans who believe that tax payer money is their personal checkbook is the perfect example. Remember in his first year in the senate, Obama claimed over $9 million dollars of our money in pork, without doing a damn thing to earn it!
That is what I resent. And it has to stop for our sake, the sake of our children and the sake of our grandchildren.
Mr. Irons
14 years ago
It is clear B-Rob has not even read the materials answering his question but still uses polarized, ignorant attacks.
Ok, for the comment he makes about, “Cons not offering a solution” I will have to have to highlight how much of a fool B-Rob is and how ignorant he is about a little thing called, “The Patient’s Choice Act of 2009” penned by the Republican base and proposed in Congress/Senate back in Spring of 2009. Here is the Document:
As for propping up a European or Canadian system, B-Rob, I like to point out how dangerous that is given that Canada’s various Proviences is considering or in the process to Privatize their Healthcare Industry to releave budget strains, defeicts and to improve the over all care of its Citizens. Germany is already in the process of slowly stepping away from Socalized Healthcare to a full Private industry and Great Britian is considering this solution adopted by Germany within Paraliment
You wish to be a faithfuly blind follower of Communist ideals then keep treading that path. Your reward for it will not be the glitter of gold and conquest, but enslavement and hardships. There is little need for, “have-nots” in a Communist government that refuses to work. Nazi Germany, Communist Russia and China have shown their attitude towards those who have blindly helped their Governments take root. Failure to understand History, B-Rob, is a deadly problem.
TammyL
14 years ago
I would like to add something about Medicaid if I might add. Medicaid is a state run government health program, whereas Medicare is a federal run program. They both suck. In the state of Michgian, Medicaid has a terrible reimbursement rate for physicians and providers. If they don’t pay the bill within 30 days, they can take up a year to pay the bill. Even then they might not pay if. You can’t even status the claim for six months, and then you have to do it online. You are not allowed to call them and speak to a live person to resolve a problme. You have to do everything in writing or online. THus, as you can imagine. Many, many, many bills do not get paid, but the services were provided. Plus, you are not allowed to bill the patient if they had good medicaid. If they don’t get paid, the provider has to write it off.
When they choose to pay, reimbursement rate averages around 30 percent for physicians, and if you are lucky for inpatient or outpatient services, you might get them to pay 10 percent. The rest has to be written off.
COnsequently many hospitals and physicans will no longer take medicaid patients becasue the goverment screws them. Hospitals and physicians have to take the medicaid patients if they are recieving federal or state grants, but if they are totally private, many will not take the medicaid patients. My sisiter-in-law who lives in Alabama always has a struggle to find a doctor who will take her medicaid insurance, and she has to travel a long way to find one.
I get the stats on statins. But until the French, Belgian, British systems have WORSE life expectancies, more malpractice, and fewer individuals with insurance, the US system will still fail to measure up.
When deducting deaths having nothing to do with healthcare….. auto accidents, murders, lifestyle(gangs, drugs), ethnicity, diet and in the case of infant mortality…..the US counts any infant with a heartbeat as opposed to most European countries that will only count a live birth if the baby is 12 inches long or as in Germany and Austria, the baby has to weigh a pound and in France the baby has to have had a gestation of 26 weeks………our life expancy numbers are better than than France, Belgium and the British.
The US hasn’t failed to “measure up” because when our healthcare system is involved treating heart disease, cancers, AIDS, etc. our life expectancy surpasses countries with universal healthcare and our patients aren’t suffering or dying while waiting to be treated.
I recall over 15,000 elderly died in France a few summers ago from the heat while the doctors were vacationing. No big deal they were old and infirm, get em off the rolls. Government run healthcare, can’t beat it.
2.60? He must have some rather good dealer in petro.
Flyovercountry
14 years ago
Re: Missy
So, are you also filling up for $2.60 per gallon like the “ahem” Chicago attorney?
Two days ago, after Tuesday’s market restoration, I paid 2.74 per gallon. I didn’t see what it was today, but you can bet the price will be forever changing. The sad truth of the matter is, it could be about a buc a gallon if we would simply decide to drill for it here in our own nation. Deer Season is in November to December in most states, I think we need to open up January for Liberal season on a national level.
I got the stats on statins. In fact, I provided a link to those stats. National Center for Policy Analysis is a good source for healthcare related statistics. Besides, I never made any assumption that we had a longer life expectancy than anyone. I am perfectly content with you saying whatever it is you like, but you just put words in my mouth and I don’t know how doing this will helps you.
Considering the NCPA article I linked this thread to, do you think the people who’ve read it will care that the U.S. has a shorter life expectancy? That all the substance in that article can simply be brushed off and ignored since we don’t live as long?
Highly doubtful (and wishful thinking on your part if that’s what you’re hoping), since the answer to prolonging ones life is getting out and becoming physically active, which happens to be the choice of an individual and has little influence from our healthcare system. Also, we cons aren’t against taxing. But we are right in saying that it shouldn’t be so high. Yet, whether we are right or wrong is irrelevant, after all we are still in good company. Let’s see who we have!
We have the past 5 presidents (Reagan to Obama, though it’s ultimately up to Congress for tax policies), as well as a significant chunk of blue collar conservative democrats. I’d say many agree with the notion that taxes shouldn’t be increased, and for good reason. For example, the average American works five months of the year just to pay taxes alone, that’s about three times higher than the previous two generations according to Michael Hodges’ Grandfather Federal Economic Debt Report.
For my case, it’s not that I would have any problem paying my taxes, I would gladly pay them. However, I find it necessary to iterate that this would cause many Americans to struggle. Many Americans can’t just live off of seven months of income to pay for: mortgage, appliances, and other important commodities, the low income Americans in particular (although they are already in the lowest tax bracket).
Maybe a good solution for these people is to find a higher paying job? But this isn’t guaranteed. I see people trying to achieve this everyday as a college student. Students working to earn degrees in exchange for better income and benefits. However, this plan of many (though, not a bad one I might add) might very well be a catch 22 so to speak, since this year not as many college students are able to find work close to or shortly after graduation.
I’m outside of Chicago, it was $2.81 a couple of days ago. I also looked up Chicago prices because brotha’ b-rob had told us earlier that he was a S. Chicago attorney and knew people that knew Obama. Now he’s telling us he lives in Cleveland, next to an in-the-know urologist.
In a day or so he will attempt to make an honest man of himself and just may tell us he’s from Des Moines living next to an ethanol salesman. Gas prices there might be that cheap, Iowa is usually around 25-30 cents cheaper than we are with Des Moines having thee bargain basement gas prices.
I am not at all sure what the gas price thing is all about, but I notice some confusion on where B-Rob is from. He has claimed to live in both Cleveland, and Chicago. Maybe next week he’ll move down the alphabet to Denver, of Des Moines. If he’s an attorney of even a para legal, then litteraly, I’ll be a monkey’s uncle. My guess, is that this fool is one of those Saudi paid blog spammers touting the liberal meme, or possibly an Acorn thug. I will say thanks for your gas price posts for my city. I notice that Costco is listed as the lowest, which is not quite fair, as you need a membership to actually purchase gas there. 50 bucks, and you are allowed to buy their gas for a year.
Donald Bly
14 years ago
@ B-Rob
I don’t know why I bother responding to this wanna be commie but what the hell I’ve got nothing better to do right now.
The claim that the Republicans have offered nothing INRE Health Care Reform is not exactly correct. Here’s an excerpt from the Washington Examiner dated Sept 11, 2009:
A search of the LexisNexis database of newspapers, magazines, television programs and major blogs finds about 3,000 mentions of the major House Democratic bill, H.R. 3200, in the past six months. (Those are just the stories that refer to the bill by its House number; there have been thousands more stories referring generally to the Democratic legislation.) A similar search found 60 mentions of H.R. 3400, the Price bill.
Another Republican bill, H.R. 2520, the Patients’ Choice Act, by Wisconsin Rep. Paul Ryan, received 12 mentions in the same time period. And two other bills, H.R. 3217 and H.R. 3218, the Health Care Choice Act and the Improving Health Care for All Americans Act, by Rep. John Shadegg, together received 20 mentions.
The virtual embargo on reporting Republican legislation has allowed Democrats and their allies in the media to keep up the “Republicans have no plan” attack. Just hours after the president’s speech, for example, the Democratic National Committee released a new commercial claiming that Republicans “refuse to offer a plan” to reform the health care system.
Just for the record, in case you want to check them out, these are the bills proposed, so far, by Price and his allies in the House: H.R. 77; H.R. 109; H.R. 198; H.R. 270; H.R. 321; H.R. 464; H.R. 502; H.R. 544; H.R. 917; H.R. 1086; H.R. 1118; H.R. 1441; H.R. 1458; H.R. 1468; H.R. 1658; H.R. 1891; H.R. 2520; H.R. 2607; H.R. 2692; H.R. 2784; H.R. 2785; H.R. 2786; H.R. 2787; H.R. 3141; H.R. 3217; H.R. 3218; H.R. 3356; H.R. 3372; H.R. 3400; H.R. 3438; H.R. 3454; and H.R. 3478.
So, as you can see there are numerous bills but little reporting of Republican sponsored legislation. This makes for great sound bites like “The Party of NO” when in reality it is simply the propoganda machine in full operation.
In addition there were some 160 Republican sponsored ammendments to the Senate bill although that number cannot be confirmed since the Senate committee will not make public the proceedings.
If there truly was a crisis in health care that required bills to be passed so swiftly that legislators don’t even have time to read them let alone understand what’s in them, then explain to me why most of the benefits do not even begin until the 5th year. If government acts as it has in the past, the taxes that will be levied a full 4 years prior to the implemtation of the benefits portion of the bill will most likely have already been spent on some other perceived need just as social security revenue has been spent on other social programs rather than being invested and used for the purpose it was collected.
Well, I see BLOB did succeed in his major goal, which was to change the subject from Dems dropping like flies to a discussion on gas prices…
Not exactly a smart strategy since that’s just as big a loser for Obama as Dems retiring.
In an effort to tie the two together, here’s a reason why so many Dems will be “retiring” one way or another in November:
The Obama undertow is going to sink them all in November!
Skookum
14 years ago
If you can remain detached from Obama’s bumbling, this whole thing becomes more humorous with each passing day.
B-Rob
14 years ago
A few things . . .
I would gladly discuss how the Dems are “dropping like flies” if that were so. But seeing as more GOPers, and a higher percentage, are exiting stage right than Dems exiting stage left, you cons are concerned about the speck in their eye and ignoring the friggin 2 X 4 in your own.
I never said I live in Chicago. I went to law school there, but have lived in Cleveland for the past 16 years. I just paid $2.60 for gas while driving between Cleveland and Columbus. In town it is probably closer to $2.75.
Among the hospitals that have closed here during my 16 years here include the ones mentioned previously, as well as St. Michaels, St. Lukes, Mt. Sinai, and another one on the south central side of town that I can’t recall at the moment. To say that hospitals have not “closed” but there has been “consolidation” reminds me of the road manager in “This is Spinal Tap” saying that the lads were “playing to a more selective audiance.” In fact, those hospitals closed for the same reason that Metro, the county hospital, is in trouble: too much uncompensated care extended to people without insurance.
When I was at Legal Aid (my BigFirm mandatory pro bono stop) one of the clients I helped was a guy who was a mid 50 year old laid off engineer from Lakewood. Just after his COBRA ran out, he had a stroke. His bill from Metro was about $80,000. He was one of those people too young for Medicare, too “rich” for Medicaid, and not wealthy enough to pay the $500 per month to continue COBRA. THAT is the problem with our system that needs to be fixed: the middle class, the shaky relationship between employment and health care coverage, and the bankrupting effects (on individuals and hospitals) of uninsured and, therefore, uncompensated health care. Add in Medicare and Medicaid paying low and paying slow, add in insurance companies unwilling to pay a dollar more than Medicare/caid does and you have a situation where my soon to be ex gets reinbursed about 30 cents on the dollar . . . from both government and non-government sources.
The GOP had several years of uninterrupted control of the House, the Senate, and the White House. There were enough interested Dems who would have GLADLY gotten involved to address the engineer’s problem I just mentioned –= led by Ted Kennedy. But did the GOP ever make any effort to address the problem? No. It simply was not a priority. Likewise, had the GOP actually tried to get involved in solving the problem now, maybe there would have been a “better” less statist oriented bill. But, again, the GOP calculation was to just stand on the side lines, yell “death panels”, and try to keep the unworkable and nutty status quo going.
Where was the GOP proposal on pre-existing conditions? At least the Dems give the insurance companies some cover on that by expanding the pool with the coverage mandate. But now the GOP attorney generals want to attack the coverage mandate, as if that has nothing to do with any other part of the bill. Again . . . no interest in solving the problem, just pissing in the lemonade.
There is a reason why you guys are the minority party, getting older and shrinking. There is a reason why people under 35 are more willing to say they have the clap than claim the GOP is their party. “Keep your government hands off my Medicare” says it all: you cons have made yourself the joke.
B-Rob
14 years ago
Chihuahua —
Strongsville, Chardon and Avon are all in the Cleveland area. Gas is $2.61 in Strongsville. But I bought my $2.60 gas in the boonies, anyway, between Columbus and Cleveland.
Missy — I never said I lived in Chicago. You inferred it because someone called me a “South Side” lawyer. I went to school there and have lived in Cleveland for the past 16 years.
Mr. Irons
14 years ago
So, let me get this right:
You’re pretty much flip flopping on what you’ve said piror about being in Chicago?
Wait… what?
Flyovercountry
14 years ago
The price of gas from day to day is a rediculous place to draw a line in the sand anyhow. This plrice fluctuates daily, and is difficult to micro-predict. Over the weekend guys, 2.60 in strongsville may have been possible, not in Avon, I am uncertain about Chardon. After Tuesday’s market restoration, no way. Who cares? Gas prices are artificially high due to government meddling in the marketplace. Since the Democrat takeover of congress in 2006, the average price has more than doubled. If the socialist party aparatchiks would move out of the way, gas would be what it should be, closer to a buck a gallon. Let us drill where technology permits, and refine it free of the nonsensical regional requirements, and rid ourselves of the punative government taxation of a very useful comodity. The fact that B-Rob is able to point to a meaningless drop in daily retail pricing shows nothing but an argument from a very weak position. By the way B-Rob, in 2008 the Zero stated in one of his SEIU campaign gigs, he thinks 4 bucks a gallon by the end of his first term would be a fair price.
Mr. Irons
14 years ago
I wouldn’t exactly say, “doubled.” In 2006 gas prices were pretty much where they are now but climbing up. Infact, if memory recalls the Democrats in Congress/Senate mostly ran on a platform of bringing fuel prices down and to combat the evil Bush fuel monopoly. Funny how in 2008 the fuel prices were almost tipping 4.00 or higher a gallon across the nation while Congress did completely nothing to fuel prices. I remember paying almost 3.46 a gallon of gas in Wichita back in 2008 a few times in the summer and the local papers warning that 2009’s projected fuel prices could hit 4.50… I also still had a job in 2008 at Cessna till Congress choosed to insult Private Aircraft industries…
@B-Rob: Correction, I called you a “South side Shyster.” And there’s not much difference between Chicago and Cleveland.
And I can’t wait to celebrate the election of my friend John Kasich, as Ohio Governor in November!
Donald Bly
14 years ago
@ B-Rob the communist
There is a reason why people under 35 are more willing to say they have the clap than claim the GOP is their party
I’d imagine with the loose moral standards and rampant promiscuity of today’s youth, more youngsters having the clap than membership in the GOP is probably closer to the truth than you realize.
Likewise, had the GOP actually tried to get involved in solving the problem now, maybe there would have been a “better” less statist oriented bill. But, again, the GOP calculation was to just stand on the side lines, yell “death panels”, and try to keep the unworkable and nutty status quo going
Of course B-Rob the communist totally over looks the 30 House bills introduced by Republicans that were pointed out in post 78. Go figue.
What resembles an osterich with it’s head in the sand? A demonicrat.
Oh! Oh!… I’m on a roll now! What do you see when the pillsbury doughboy bends over? Doughnuts
Mr. Irons
14 years ago
Hey, I’d rather be a member of the orginal Grand Old Party that liberated an Enslaved People during the Civil War than suffering from Clap or any other S.T.D.
@Donald Bly: I guess he hasn’t seen the newest Gallup poll.
Conservatives are on the rise!
And we ain’t voting for Democrats!
Donald Bly
14 years ago
I’ve been spending a lot of time positing on the NEA’s public discussion boards. It’s really quite comical and ultimately sad to see the misinformation, ignorance and downright rabid leftist propensity of todays teachers.
It is no wonder that so many feel that today’s teachers are incompetent. Their writings, at least on those boards is evidence that you can’t teach people to reason. Unfortunately at some point the issue of diversity of ideology in our teaching professions needs to be addressed or we will continually have new crops of brainwashed children entering the ranks of the voting public.
TammyL
14 years ago
Donald, don’t lose hope. One thing that I have learned about kids and children. They could care less what the teachers ideological bent. Most kids tune out the political rantings of their teachers, and I have found from personal experience is that children love the truth, especially teens, and they can smell a line of bull from very far off. They and our college youth have learned the art of survival in school. Tell them what they want to hear, collect your good grades and move on.
I really believe that teahers don’t have all that great of impact as they believe that they do. What a child leans and respects is what they learn and value at home, and many parents, once they grow up and have children, surprisingly revert back to a more conservative approach.
Tradition has always worked because the definition of tradition is this: those attitudes, beliefs and customs that withstand the test of time. Sorry for the cliche, but it is true.
Don’t despair.
Donald Bly
14 years ago
@Tammy
Thanks for the words of encouragement but when I see a post like the one below I truly believe that our education system needs some real reform. Granted children may outgrow or eventually see the leftist rantings for what they are, however, the apparent ignorance and down right incompetence of some of the people teaching our children is another story.
Donald i am sorry to have wiped the floor with you, but when republicans come in here with their nonsense it has to be shown for what it is. Also in your previous post you said POSITS when in fact you should have typed POSTS. You see donald you have failed on yet another level…………….and you have the nerve to attack my grammar as yours continues to fail you………..bye bye donald and keep pretending you want to debate when in actuality you just want to be told you are correct, sorry you wont get that from me!
I had to direct the individual to http://www.dictionary.com so that he could enlighten himself as to the meaning of “posits”.
This brings me to the question; Should unions be allowed to represent teachers? The fact that most school districts are essentially closed shop bastions of unionism, does unionization of teachers serve a useful public purpose or is it an impediment towards ensuring that our children are given the best opportunity for a quality education?
I was chagrined to see Sean Hannity use the term “Tea Bag Movement” last night on his show. Hopefully, some of his staff noticed and he subsequently issued an apology, but I didn’t see it.
@John Cooper: Obviously Sean Hannity is a RINO and must be boycotted!
B-Rob
14 years ago
Mr. Irons —
No I didn’t “flip flop” on where I live, because I never said I live in Chicago. In fact, please find the post where I said I did, since you accused me of lying.
Donald Bly —
Go see your doctor. Tell him that he needs to take you up a step on the meds because your cognition is slipping. Don, if “Communist” is the best you can do to describe the part that controls 60% of the Senate, a similar percentage of the House, and the same percentave of the state houses, then what does that say about the GOP? That the average American would rather have Communists running the show than the GOP speaks a mouthful about the rot that is the current Party of Lincoln.
And Don, the fact the young people don’t and won’t vote GOPer, a HUGE swing from 20 years ago, that means nothing to you? Let me put it this way: if a product manufacturer found out that its product was skewing older and older because young people reject it; it was becoming more regional and having less appeal nationwide (even in the New England region where the product used to rule the roost); if the product was less and less attractive to fast growing minority groups; and college educate people and subsurbanites are also running from it too — that product manufacturere would want to do something FAST to solve the problem. But what is the GOP response to this? Tea baggers, birthers and death panels. Yeah . . . that works.
Mike —
Kasich was a hot commodity . . . back in the late 80s! He will be running against a pro-gun Methodist minister who will have balanced the budget by CUTTING SPENDING first, then raising taxes as a last resort. Kasich has the same chance of winning that a beef tenderloin has when thrown to a hungry dog: slim and none.
Mr. Irons
14 years ago
It’s intresting, is it not that when placed into a corner, you deny your flip flopping of locations. Ok then, I will ask you this: What is your Legal Practice, Zip Code and Congressional District of Operation? Hint: One of those is a trick question, figure out which.
Are you talking about Gallup? They mentioned that in January, 2009 Democrats had the lead in the Generic Ballot by 7 points.
Now, January. 2010, Republicans are up 9 points……Dems lost 16 points in a year and it is now Republicans favored by 44%, Dems sitting with 35%.
What a difference a year makes!
Or, are you talking about Rasmussen?
Last year 37% identified as conservatives and 37% identified as moderates, liberals…..only 22% would claim that.
This year, 40% are claiming the conservative mantle, the moderates, 36% losing a point and liberals are still sucking the hind teet, also losing a point to come in at a whopping 21%.
IMHO, the biggest “con” was the “Lap Dummy” his ventriloquist managed to fool much of the 52% that voted for the dummy. They were “conned” into believing he was moderate. Bet that act don’t sell a second time.
B-Rob
14 years ago
Flyovercountry —
Your wrote the following:
“Gas prices are artificially high due to government meddling in the marketplace.”
Simply wrong. Gas prices are directly related to the price of oil. When it shoots to $130 per barrel, expect our gas to cost about 80% more than it does now. Indeed, the proof that you are simply WRONG is the fact that gas prices dropped from $4 per gallon in June 2008 to about $1.60 per gallon in December 2008 with NO CHANGE IN GOVERNMENT POLICIES WHATSOEVER.
“Since the Democrat takeover of congress in 2006, the average price has more than doubled.”
Simply a flat out bald faced lie. You made that up and it is simply false. You are either ignorant of the facts or you are lying on purpose.
As someone was so kind to point out, the gas prices in my area were ranging recently from $2.60 per gallon up to $2.80. Now let’s see where prices for regular gas were nationwide (first column):
According to this chart (official numbers, dude), gas was about $1.46 when Clinton left office in January 2001. When Bush was inaugurated in 2005, it was at $1.84. When the Dems turned the Congress in November 2006, it was at $2.33 and when Obama was elected in November 2008, it was at $2.34. It later got as low as $1.60 per gallon.
Under what definition of yours is $2.60 now “double” the $2.33 price from November 2006? Because where I come from, that is about an 11.5% increase.
“If the socialist party aparatchiks would move out of the way, gas would be what it should be, closer to a buck a gallon.”
Like I said, gas was about $1.46 when Clinton left office and the GOPers took over everything. And what happened to the price of gas? Just look at the chart! So no “socialists” were in control, only GOPers, and the price skyrocketed and has NEVER gone back to Bill Clinton era levels. If anything, we should be following whatever policies were in place back then, NOT whatever Bush and Co. put in place. Because pricewise, that appears to have been a disaster.
“Let us drill where technology permits, and refine it free of the nonsensical regional requirements, and rid ourselves of the punative government taxation of a very useful comodity.”
That “punitive” taxation keeps our roads in decent condition. If we drop the tax, where do you propose we get the money to repair the highways? is the magic tax cut fairy gonna drop bags of money on Washington?
“The fact that B-Rob is able to point to a meaningless drop in daily retail pricing shows nothing but an argument from a very weak position.”
Er, yeah. Keept tellin’ yourself that. I provided the hard data to prove my point. What did you provide? Nothing but a flat out wrong statement of fiction.
“By the way B-Rob, in 2008 the Zero stated in one of his SEIU campaign gigs, he thinks 4 bucks a gallon by the end of his first term would be a fair price.”
Care to provide a link to that?
Donald Bly
14 years ago
@ B-Rob the Communist, Pinko, Socialist, Red, Markist, P.O.S.
I noticed that you, in your typical style, focused on a tangent while totally ignoring the 30 pieces of Republican legislation that has been introduced, contrary to your previous lying assertion that the GOP has offered nothing.
Hope you like the expansion of your new title, as you requested.
He’s been the butt of jokes in here for at least three months because of his practice in Chicago and has never once corrected anyone. After he mentions living in Cleveland in this thread and was called on it he suddenly feels the need to set the record straight. He brought up it all here in the first place. lying then or lying now.
In reality, contary to your statement, gas prices ber bid of barrel of oil doesn’t truly factor into the final price of petro products. The current inventories produced on hand and ammount shipped do. Biddings on Crude Oil is the equal of Gold Value, it is only a fraction of the costs of the end good. Federal and State Taxation policies in the focus of Energy Consumption greatly factor into American Fuel prices more so than market bidding on Crude as there are other supplies of Oil outside of the bidding market for Crude for Companies to acquire and refine up to including internal acquistion and processing. State Laws also factor into the price as different States and Cities within the State have a “blend” law which dictates the Octane and chemical composure of the Gasoline consumed for cars, which can spike prices up by 20 cents alone before taxes are applied. And finaly there is the Demand for the good, which in winter time the demand shifts generaly to heating oils which means quick retrofit of reinferies to make oils and a decrease in gasoline supplied. The Demand, either way is high, the supply is purposely made short when in reality Oil wells (even with our consumption rate) won’t disappear for another 150 years.
B-Rob
14 years ago
Rasmussen . . . the guy who was a paid pollster for Bush? That Rasmussen? Yeah, there’s a nice independent source of information for ya!
It’s funny . . . this thing started out as a discussion about how Dems were “dropping like flies” with retirements from the House, the Senate, and the goivernor seats. Then I point out the following facts:
Out of 178 House Republicans, 14 are retiring — 7.9%
Out of 256 Democratic House members, 10 are retiring — 3.9%
Out of 40 GOPer Senators, 6 Senate Republicans are retiring — that’s 15%
2 Democrats out of 58 are retiring — 3.4%
In the states, 3 Democrats have opted against reelection to governorships out of the 27 seats held by Dems — 11%
Of the 23 GOPers, 4 are leaving — 17%
* * * * *
If the GOPers were an army, they would be in full retreat mode!
Mr. Irons
14 years ago
Rasmussen has been a Pollster well before Bush, Jr. was even considering being a Governor…
And a Tactical Retreat is not something to laugh about. In History, almost every single time a hostile force gives quick chase to a taticaly retreating force, that hostile force generaly suffers massive loses to a regrouped and reinforced opposition in a new battlefield that does not allow application of the hostile force’s tactics.
@Hard Right: forgot to mention INRE your “time to ban” comment…..
Nope. Not in the least, as far as I can see. I have no problem with dissent opinions. Only problems with those who project themselves as articulate and learned, while simultaneously parroting talking points with no substance… just Alinsky “fire ’em up” emotions.
Besides, all cats need rodents and snakes with which to play.
I notice brainded rob didn’t post a single link supporting his fantasy world. I’m not shocked since the mentally ill like himself are allergic to facts and reality itself.
As for the teabagger comment, you must think we are as stupid as you to buy the BS excuse you posted. Like I said, if this was my site, you’d be gone for that alone. That’s besides the fact you are really just a troll.
I find it amusing “people” like you only seem to call names when you think you are safe. One on one I’ve found the behavior of libs to be rather different…more…cowardly.
MATA while I disagree with his POV, that isn’t my problem. When a vulgar name is used that is crossing a line as far as I’m concerned.
While I disagree with Larry W, I don’t want him banned. I have very little tolerance for the KOS types and b-rob is definitely one of them.
That’s the point, HR…. billy bob blows BS and emotions. We return fire with facts and statistics. He claims the high road, apparently only contenting himself with such an easy criteria to meet. The contrast is readily apparent, and is not a point in his favor.
As far as “vulgar” names goes, unfortunately the TB reference to which he refers is becoming a main stream term. I’m not much on labels, so I’m not going to let that deter me from the heart of the argument. That I will address. Parsing words? A “distraction” from the issue, as “let me be clear” Obama likes to say. When you get diverted in BS piddly ass stuff, you lose factual momentum.
I can deal with billy bob. The real question would be, can billy bob deal with his erroneous forecasts of a rosy future under Obama’s spending frenzy?
@IndieDogg… so sorry to have missed your “question” INRE our early patriots. Instead of concentrating on who our Founders were and what they did for a living, let’s revisit what happened to those who signed the Declaration of Independence. And yes… it’s the version from Snopes so no one can claim it’s pure conjecture. Less dramatic than the email versions, but the repercussions of aiding revolution are nonetheless pointed.
It is these same men (and families), who were punished by the British Empire, and/or the rebellion for freedom, for being at the heart of this nation and it’s frame for personal freedoms and limited goverment. It is in the company of these with these men that I consider myself in my (lack of) demands from government. Lawyers like billy bob would, of course, be representing the British Empire, and busy “alinsky’izing” those dissenting voices, leading the verbal lynch mobs (ironic, eh billy bob?).
If you haven’t read the fate of the 56 signers and their families… or re’read it in awhile… it’s always worth a gander. And far superior to what they did for a living.
B-Rob, I think many people within the youth of this country are subscribing to the left wing doctrine because if one disagrees (especially at a college), that person may experience some form of mistreatment and may be labeled an outcast. In this generation of mine, it is easier to get along if you just go along.
The second I start debating liberal friends in college, they really get emotional, even when I haven’t gotten to the point yet. This is stifling discussion, and makes it a challenge for me to want to continue offering them my care and friendship. Of course, it’s not always like this. Like when one of my friends who got angry at me because he failed to get me to lose my calmness during a debate on the Iraq war woke me with a phone call at one in the morning because he had a little too much to drink with the Gammas, I was his designated driver home.
Besides, losing the support of college students is hardly a loss. Most of the time, they learn and they start to harbor different beliefs as they get older. Plus, approximately half the country remains conservative, and the more you poll people with degrees, the more you’ll find people with a right of center lean in their politics.
I will agree with you that Europe is a great place. There are people that I grew close enough with there that I consider them close enough friends that I would take bullets for them. My heroes aren’t just Navy SEALs. The British SAS are also a large inspiration in my life.
However, despite the fact that I find many things that I like about Europe, I find it safe to say that it has its downs just like we do. For example, less than 23 percent British, and 26 percent Germans have access to the meds that prevent Atheromas (arterial blockage leading to a myocardial infarction or stroke, can also be called atherosclerosis) such as the statins. Whereas, the U.S. has plenty of the statins and gives some to the Europeans and the Canadians. Some 56 percent of Americans who could benefit from the statins have them, and one of the main reasons why it isn’t much higher isn’t because of poor insurance or because the statins are expensive, but because many don’t know that they need it yet. The Europeans also enjoy twice the amount of waiting time for medical assistance than we do.
However, using the flaws that Europe is resiliently striving to change in debates with people who support a government run health care service isn’t why college students choose to be liberal. Many just choose to go along to fit in, and in many cases, students get a one sided story of every political discussion in the classroom.
One sided as in, on the left side of the aisle. Its like a subliminal message in a movie. The people who are running the film repeatedly flash pictures of cola in between frames making you thirst for it, and the first person who caves in just helps pull everyone on the band wagon. When teachers repeat one sided talking points memos, it gets ingrained on the psyche of the audience and the people begin to believe it. When a kids friends begin to believe it, it gets even harder to resist, and dissent. Overall, the parroting of left wing talking points by professors and most college students buying into it has the same effect as a subliminal message in a movie.
One professor in my college just got in trouble for trying to make students who may have voted for Prop 8 banning gay marriage into villains. Despite the fact that the in class discussions on Prop 8 were largely peaceful from both conservatives who supported the proposition and liberals who opposed it. In a fit, the professor brought guest speakers into the classroom to slam the people who voted for the proposition.
Students of both sides of the debate wanted to leave the classroom because they felt this attack was wrong and immoral and that the professor had poor judgment in doing this to the class. In the schools coyote chronicle paper, some conservative students who felt Prop 8 was the right way to go still had nice things to say about the professor, the liberal students who had friends who were conservatives in support of Prop 8 said the students “didn’t deserve the bashing and the disrespect.” This is one example of teachers trying to taint learning by sneaking their political views into the lesson.
@Hard Right: It does serve a useful purpose to have some of these George Soros trained parrots around. They are always nasty, like BLOB, and suffer from a lack of intellectual integrity (which Aye continues to demonstrate).
No one would believe us if we told them what a piece of work parrots like BLOB are. We have to show them.
And I am grateful that Mata, Aye and now Ryan are willing to debunk his idiocy. Of course they know that BLOB will never admit he is wrong. Frankly, I’d rather spend the time developing new posts to reach a more receptive audience than arguing with one lefty loon, but hey, that’s me.
Another good example of a repeated fallacy that can act like a subliminal message when constantly rehashed is the claim that Bush gave the credit of the 9-11-01 terrorist attacks in New York and Washington D.C. to Saddam Hussein. Yet, five days after the attacks, the Bush Administration confirmed that Al Qaeda was responsible, as they’ve been telling the news outlets prior that Al Qaeda was the one they were suspecting.
Around the same time, when Cheney was interviewed by Russert, he was asked if Saddam was linked to the attacks in which he replied “no.” Then again, in July and September of 2002 prior to the Congresses vote to put the Joint Authorization Resolution for military action in Iraq into law, Rice, Cheney, and Bush all have reiterated that 9-11 wasn’t done by Iraq. Rice and Cheney said it in separate televised interviews, and Bush said it while giving a speech. It’s nice to have this confirmed in black and white at FactCheckdotOrgs archives. The false notion that Bush gave Saddam credit for 9-11 can finally lay in the grave that it dug itself.
Of course, this does not change the fact that Al Qaeda had a presence in Iraq prior to the war, and that they were operating with Ba’ath military officers, which shortly after Clinton dropped out of her 2008 presidential bid, Harry Reid admitted. Yet, the false claim that Bush made 9-11 Saddam’s responsibility has led to the multiple repetitions of another, the falsely repeated claim that Iraq’s Ba’ath party couldn’t have operated with Jihadist terror groups because they were secular.
Never mind the widely reported fact that he was spending money on building mosques in addition to building his palaces, and the fact that he chose a side in a religious war between the Sunni and the Shia that was tearing up his country. None of which are secular actions. This false statement gives the people who oppose our country using military intervention in other countries (especially in Iraq) the subliminal message that they can brush aside historical context to keep their political views in tact.
Looking at the history of Pan Arabism and the origins of the Ba’ath party, despite the Ba’ath partys original stance of secularism, Iraq’s Ba’athists have a long history of getting involved with the mosques. During Saddams tenure as president of Iraq and prior to, the Ba’ath members in Iraq were known to lend their hand to the members of the mujahideen al shura group who were operating in Iraq (but not exclusively). Iraqi Ba’athist support of mujahideen religious fighters during the 1950’s and on made Gamal Abdel Nasser (the founder of Pan Arabism, the movement that gave rise to the Ba’ath party being found in Demascus in 1940) uneasy, and up until Saddam was removed from power in 2003 it made the Ba’athists in Syria and the Asads a political opposition to the Ba’ath party of Iraq.
To summarize it plainly, sure the Ba’ath party is supposed to be secular as a result of its Pan Arab roots, but Iraqs Ba’ath party wasn’t secular before or during Saddam’s presidency. In fact, they would rarely adhere to the partys secularism and its Pan Arab roots so long as Saddam was a key member of it. Now that they have a second chance to be involved in Iraqs government and to be involved in its elections, maybe now they can follow the Ba’ath partys Pan Arab roots and be: secular, peaceful, and in support of Muslim nationalism (not separatism). The ball is in their court, and they can finally get it right for the first time in 25 years.
When I said earlier that repeating a talking points memo has the same effect as a subliminal message, these two often repeated though debunked claims are very good examples of this effect taking place. Of course, there are many examples, but these two are the ones that tend to come to my mind the most considering the pervasiveness of these claims in discussions regarding the current military campaign to hunt and catch terror groups.
If anyone is wondering where I got the percentages of Germans and British who have access to the statins, here it is.
-National Center for Policy Analysis.
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649
Someone mentioned Marianne Williamson down stairs and how she is upset with obama whom she voted for..so I looked up her face book and dropped this bomb in it.
Her face book says: Where does a democrat go? If obama desn’t grow a spine…
http://www.wikio.com/comment/?infoid=158794764
Personally, I’ll never be a dem ever again.
My response was:
You voted for the spineless liar not me. Ya know where you can go. Go to hell. He stole the Dem party so no real dem has anywhere to go. How’s that? He intends to take this country down. Thanks alot bozo. You are a simpleton and hardly the mystic you claim to be. You are thoughtless and empty-headed. He told every single one of you what he was going to do and you didn’t listen. You imagined what you wanted him to be. He intends to take this country down. He is not for America. You and people like you have voted in a fascist. Don’t believe me just wait and see. Ask God to forgive you for ruining this country. You will have to pay. It’s only going to get worse so you have only one choice. Apologize to the patriots of this country for what you did and denounce this evil man. God is pissed at you and the likes of you. This is God’s country and you aided and abetted it’s demise by voting in this rotten nincumpoop. He is evil down to his soul and his wife is too. He’s looting the treasury right under our noses.
See what this retired writer of the village voice, the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Commonwealth, the New Republic, the Atlantic and the New Yorker, has to say about this evil nincumpoop who is ruining America on PURPOSE. It’s no surprise to anyone who didn’t vote for the phoney nincumpoop. We warned you but you would not listen. You are the guilty ones and you have BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS. Wait and see.
http://www.rutherford.org/Oldspeak/Articles/Interviews/oldspeak-Hentoff_2009.html
I would have to say, Mataharley, that the ingenious B-Rob is taking his cues and mannerisms from the infamous Saul Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals” manifesto. The core rules for dealing with debates, as detailed in the book, is to verbaly insult your opposition and use confusing and conflicting sources of information which is not yet acredited to be true to dismantle the real data and facts.
I hate the book, but I have been skimming though a copy of it to understand it and to see what weaknesses to these rules have and so far the only weakness this book has is: The Truth. Even if a certain point,person, or event is polarized and attacked, the truth of the matter from the defending side has to be expressed loudly and go on the offense to challenge the authenticity of the polarized attack’s sources and facts.
@ Mike — two more posts and you still have not answered my question . . . and neither has anyone else.
You all think life is going to suck under Obama. I get it. I remember in 1992, noted conservative political theoretician Mike Ditka introduced a failed GOPer Illinois senatorial candidate by predicting something akin to “If Bill Clinton is elected, we will end up a third world country.” Ditto the GOPers who, lock step, opposed Clinton’s 1993 tax increases with predictions that we would go into a never ending recession and tax revenues would shrink. These dire GOPer predictions, in my view, have two separate roots: (a) an abjectly flawed understanding of the business cycle and the effects of taxation, and (b) wishful thinking — that the economy gets so bad under a Dem that no one wants to vote Dem for 20 years.
On the flawed economic thinking, you can see it in con attitudes toward taxes. Cons think you can cut taxes today and increase spending today, but the magic revenue fairy will give you even higher tax revenues tomorrow. How’d that work out under Bush, y’all? Cons also think that any tax cut increases revenues and any tax increase decreases demand on the supply side. But what they have no concept of is price inelasticity. Stated simply, if you put a 5 cent per gallon tax on cows milk, no one stops buying milk and shifts to soy milk. Put a 30 cent tax and some people might slink away, but some never will. Same thing at 40 cents. But to push tax cuts as end all and be all, cons work from the theoretical perspective that everyone sits up nights thinking about the marginal tax rate of this or that. It simply does not work that way.
Ditto the revenue side. Tax cuts do not produce higher revenues. Want proof? Name me every state that has decided to deal with the current fiscal crisis by cutting their tax rates. It is a short list of “zero” I would bet. In fact, if that were so, no Red State would have a tax rate above a microscopic percentage, like .005%.
On the wishful thinking side — conservatives have a grand theory of how government should run; but they simply have no working models to show how great things can be in a con eutopia. Liberals can point to Sweden or France or England as their preferred model . . . all functioning socialized democracies with high life expectancies, first world technology, etc. Cons, however, have no country of their own, and no workable conservative states that anyone would want to emulate. Texas? 46th in health care, poor pollution controls and shocking crime and teen parenting rates, with public schools are hopelessly segregated and that, in a word, suck bigtime. Mississippi, Alabama, South Carolina . . . do I even have to finish the sentence?
So cons are left to rail against how things “would be better” under con theories of government and how liberal theories suck. The worst thing in the world for cons, though, is a well functioning economy under a liberal . . . it simply f’s up their thinking. Which explains why, even in the face of the economy OBVIOUSLY turning around now, I see people on this board expecting, hoping and praying for the worst. It is why Mike refuses to say whether he would want to see 6% unemployment in October (which will help the Dems) or 10%. His silence, and the doom and gloom here and on con talk radio, of course, answers my question. Sean Hannity and Glen Beck and Rush have convinced you all that America is “being destroyed by the enemy from within”; any facts that show that things are getting better simply don’t register because in your mind, Obama and the Dems “should not be successful.” But all the numbers point to a continued recovery . . . and you cons can’t stand it!
I won’t even get into the fact that Obama, a student of Reagan, refuses to be pessimistic or scared about anything, leaving it to conservatives to play the Chicken Little role. And I won’t get into the complete absence of any actual alternatives offered by conservatives. Instead, I see nothing but spittle flying from the right wing. Sad . . . .
Ryan —
I get the stats on statins. But until the French, Belgian, British systems have WORSE life expectancies, more malpractice, and fewer individuals with insurance, the US system will still fail to measure up.
I live in a town, Cleveland, with strong, internationally know health care facilities. My next door neighbor, a urologist, travels to the Persian Gulf region to treat patients. The hotel near where I work has been taken over by by some royal family from the Gulf. It is a great town to get sick in. But if you don’t have insurance, you go to county hospital, which is going broke, of course, treating the uninsured. Other local hospitals have gone under for the same reason. Go a bit south of me, into Appalachia, and the health care outcomes are at Third World levels. The socialized countries simply don’t have those issue and, as a result, they have a better system. As it was once described — our system consists of islands of excellence in a sea of mediocrity. It is why, when compared to Canada, England, Germany, France, etc., our numbers simply SUCK.
Unless and until cons come up with some construct that deals with these issues, the only option will be a Canada-like, or Britain-like system. And forget about “tax credits” — if you don’t have a job, you can offer as many tax credits as you want and I still won’t be able to buy coverage. And even if I have them money, I can;t get coverage if I have a pre-existing condition. How does a tax credit help then? It doesn’t. Nope . . . the Obama bill will have some significant impact; but if it does result in 30 million people having coverage and preventative care who would not otherwise have that, you cons will have a tough row to hoe explaining why it should not pass at all.
B-Rob,
What a small world it truly is. I also live in the Cleveland area, and am from West Virginia, (what I believe you feferenced as apalachia.) I have a lot of family currently living in Canada, (Toronto and Hamilton.) You are being a lot dis-honest here. Those without health insurance are able to qualify for medicaid. I know quite a few social workers in the area, both with the county, and with Berea Family Children’s Home. The hospitals are not going broke, but are consolidating. Mercy Hospital closed due to a lack of patients choosing their facility, the same thing happened to Deaconess. Simply put, other larger, newer, and better run hospitals were operating very close to both Mercy and Deaconess. As for the crisis in West Virginia, it comes down to tort reform. Doctors refuse to practice in West Virginia because the tort laws are insanely slanted towards the plantiff. I beleive we, “Cons,” have been yelling about tort reform for years. Using Canada’s model for health care, or Britians for that matter is simply idiotic. When my Uncle Richard was diagnosed with Leukemia, he drove to Buffalo, and sought treatment in the U.S. It seems that the wonderful Canadian system saw fit to place him on a 9 month wait list for treatment. He would have been dead by the time a doctor could treat him. By the way, he had to be diagnosed in Buffalo as well, as his symptoms were not deemed worthy of investigation by the understaffed and resourced Canadian System. As for England, 57% of British citizens have admitted to performing Woodshed tooth extractions. Beeing from Cleveland, I am sure you know who Triv is. He has a saying which is my favorite. “Don’t pee on my head and tell me it’s raining.”
@B-Rob: I don’t think life is going to suck while Obama is in power. None of the stuff he is proposing will go into effect until after he leaves. I think it is going to suck for our children and their children. You can’t keep spending money you don’t have and expect it to magically disappear. We are in debt. Debt means money you don’t have, you have borrowed. Sometime later it will have to be paid back.
I also am increasingly concerned with the increasing role of government. I like my freedom. I want my children to have the same freedom that I have, the same freedom of opportunity that currently exists. I don’t want to live as Europeans do. I don’t want my children to live as they do. I lived in Germany for three years. Gas prices are outrageous. The cost of insurance and owning your own vehicle is beyond the means of ordinary citizens for the most part. The cost of groceries is highter than I have ever been used to. The Germans pay more taxes out of their paycheck than any Americans do. They have to pay for health care (surprise it is not free), universal day care, and the many,many other programs.
I am currently struggling to make ends meet on our current income. If my tax rate would jump up another twenty to thirty percent to cover health care and the many many more programs that they want to enact, my family will go under. And so will many others.
And if you are naive enough to believe any government official who says that they won’t raise taxes, I have a bridge to sell you. They never raise your taxes at first. They wait until you become dependent upon them and their services, and then they gouge you.
There is a reason you keep government as small and as less intrusive as possible. And Obama and the Democrats and the rogue Republicans who believe that tax payer money is their personal checkbook is the perfect example. Remember in his first year in the senate, Obama claimed over $9 million dollars of our money in pork, without doing a damn thing to earn it!
That is what I resent. And it has to stop for our sake, the sake of our children and the sake of our grandchildren.
It is clear B-Rob has not even read the materials answering his question but still uses polarized, ignorant attacks.
Ok, for the comment he makes about, “Cons not offering a solution” I will have to have to highlight how much of a fool B-Rob is and how ignorant he is about a little thing called, “The Patient’s Choice Act of 2009” penned by the Republican base and proposed in Congress/Senate back in Spring of 2009. Here is the Document:
http://coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View&FileStore_id=d4eab376-d507-4fb9-9f17-8b479a10affc
As for propping up a European or Canadian system, B-Rob, I like to point out how dangerous that is given that Canada’s various Proviences is considering or in the process to Privatize their Healthcare Industry to releave budget strains, defeicts and to improve the over all care of its Citizens. Germany is already in the process of slowly stepping away from Socalized Healthcare to a full Private industry and Great Britian is considering this solution adopted by Germany within Paraliment
Wall Street report of U.K. : http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125533924279879927.html
Canadian News Article http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124451570546396929.html
You wish to be a faithfuly blind follower of Communist ideals then keep treading that path. Your reward for it will not be the glitter of gold and conquest, but enslavement and hardships. There is little need for, “have-nots” in a Communist government that refuses to work. Nazi Germany, Communist Russia and China have shown their attitude towards those who have blindly helped their Governments take root. Failure to understand History, B-Rob, is a deadly problem.
I would like to add something about Medicaid if I might add. Medicaid is a state run government health program, whereas Medicare is a federal run program. They both suck. In the state of Michgian, Medicaid has a terrible reimbursement rate for physicians and providers. If they don’t pay the bill within 30 days, they can take up a year to pay the bill. Even then they might not pay if. You can’t even status the claim for six months, and then you have to do it online. You are not allowed to call them and speak to a live person to resolve a problme. You have to do everything in writing or online. THus, as you can imagine. Many, many, many bills do not get paid, but the services were provided. Plus, you are not allowed to bill the patient if they had good medicaid. If they don’t get paid, the provider has to write it off.
When they choose to pay, reimbursement rate averages around 30 percent for physicians, and if you are lucky for inpatient or outpatient services, you might get them to pay 10 percent. The rest has to be written off.
COnsequently many hospitals and physicans will no longer take medicaid patients becasue the goverment screws them. Hospitals and physicians have to take the medicaid patients if they are recieving federal or state grants, but if they are totally private, many will not take the medicaid patients. My sisiter-in-law who lives in Alabama always has a struggle to find a doctor who will take her medicaid insurance, and she has to travel a long way to find one.
@B-Rob:
When deducting deaths having nothing to do with healthcare….. auto accidents, murders, lifestyle(gangs, drugs), ethnicity, diet and in the case of infant mortality…..the US counts any infant with a heartbeat as opposed to most European countries that will only count a live birth if the baby is 12 inches long or as in Germany and Austria, the baby has to weigh a pound and in France the baby has to have had a gestation of 26 weeks………our life expancy numbers are better than than France, Belgium and the British.
The US hasn’t failed to “measure up” because when our healthcare system is involved treating heart disease, cancers, AIDS, etc. our life expectancy surpasses countries with universal healthcare and our patients aren’t suffering or dying while waiting to be treated.
I recall over 15,000 elderly died in France a few summers ago from the heat while the doctors were vacationing. No big deal they were old and infirm, get em off the rolls. Government run healthcare, can’t beat it.
@Flyovercountry:
So, are you also filling up for $2.60 per gallon like the “ahem” Chicago attorney?
I was rather bored and found this webpage:
http://www.chicagogasprices.com/
2.60? He must have some rather good dealer in petro.
Re: Missy
So, are you also filling up for $2.60 per gallon like the “ahem” Chicago attorney?
Two days ago, after Tuesday’s market restoration, I paid 2.74 per gallon. I didn’t see what it was today, but you can bet the price will be forever changing. The sad truth of the matter is, it could be about a buc a gallon if we would simply decide to drill for it here in our own nation. Deer Season is in November to December in most states, I think we need to open up January for Liberal season on a national level.
Considering the NCPA article I linked this thread to, do you think the people who’ve read it will care that the U.S. has a shorter life expectancy? That all the substance in that article can simply be brushed off and ignored since we don’t live as long?
Highly doubtful (and wishful thinking on your part if that’s what you’re hoping), since the answer to prolonging ones life is getting out and becoming physically active, which happens to be the choice of an individual and has little influence from our healthcare system. Also, we cons aren’t against taxing. But we are right in saying that it shouldn’t be so high. Yet, whether we are right or wrong is irrelevant, after all we are still in good company. Let’s see who we have!
We have the past 5 presidents (Reagan to Obama, though it’s ultimately up to Congress for tax policies), as well as a significant chunk of blue collar conservative democrats. I’d say many agree with the notion that taxes shouldn’t be increased, and for good reason. For example, the average American works five months of the year just to pay taxes alone, that’s about three times higher than the previous two generations according to Michael Hodges’ Grandfather Federal Economic Debt Report.
For my case, it’s not that I would have any problem paying my taxes, I would gladly pay them. However, I find it necessary to iterate that this would cause many Americans to struggle. Many Americans can’t just live off of seven months of income to pay for: mortgage, appliances, and other important commodities, the low income Americans in particular (although they are already in the lowest tax bracket).
Maybe a good solution for these people is to find a higher paying job? But this isn’t guaranteed. I see people trying to achieve this everyday as a college student. Students working to earn degrees in exchange for better income and benefits. However, this plan of many (though, not a bad one I might add) might very well be a catch 22 so to speak, since this year not as many college students are able to find work close to or shortly after graduation.
@Mr. Irons:
I’m outside of Chicago, it was $2.81 a couple of days ago. I also looked up Chicago prices because brotha’ b-rob had told us earlier that he was a S. Chicago attorney and knew people that knew Obama. Now he’s telling us he lives in Cleveland, next to an in-the-know urologist.
In a day or so he will attempt to make an honest man of himself and just may tell us he’s from Des Moines living next to an ethanol salesman. Gas prices there might be that cheap, Iowa is usually around 25-30 cents cheaper than we are with Des Moines having thee bargain basement gas prices.
@Flyovercountry:
Mr. ParaLegal2 must have driven all over the city of Cleveland to find the one station that was “$2.60”.
View at EasyCaptures.com
Aye Chihuahua,
I am not at all sure what the gas price thing is all about, but I notice some confusion on where B-Rob is from. He has claimed to live in both Cleveland, and Chicago. Maybe next week he’ll move down the alphabet to Denver, of Des Moines. If he’s an attorney of even a para legal, then litteraly, I’ll be a monkey’s uncle. My guess, is that this fool is one of those Saudi paid blog spammers touting the liberal meme, or possibly an Acorn thug. I will say thanks for your gas price posts for my city. I notice that Costco is listed as the lowest, which is not quite fair, as you need a membership to actually purchase gas there. 50 bucks, and you are allowed to buy their gas for a year.
@ B-Rob
I don’t know why I bother responding to this wanna be commie but what the hell I’ve got nothing better to do right now.
The claim that the Republicans have offered nothing INRE Health Care Reform is not exactly correct. Here’s an excerpt from the Washington Examiner dated Sept 11, 2009:
So, as you can see there are numerous bills but little reporting of Republican sponsored legislation. This makes for great sound bites like “The Party of NO” when in reality it is simply the propoganda machine in full operation.
In addition there were some 160 Republican sponsored ammendments to the Senate bill although that number cannot be confirmed since the Senate committee will not make public the proceedings.
If there truly was a crisis in health care that required bills to be passed so swiftly that legislators don’t even have time to read them let alone understand what’s in them, then explain to me why most of the benefits do not even begin until the 5th year. If government acts as it has in the past, the taxes that will be levied a full 4 years prior to the implemtation of the benefits portion of the bill will most likely have already been spent on some other perceived need just as social security revenue has been spent on other social programs rather than being invested and used for the purpose it was collected.
Well, I see BLOB did succeed in his major goal, which was to change the subject from Dems dropping like flies to a discussion on gas prices…
Not exactly a smart strategy since that’s just as big a loser for Obama as Dems retiring.
In an effort to tie the two together, here’s a reason why so many Dems will be “retiring” one way or another in November:
The Obama undertow is going to sink them all in November!
If you can remain detached from Obama’s bumbling, this whole thing becomes more humorous with each passing day.
A few things . . .
I would gladly discuss how the Dems are “dropping like flies” if that were so. But seeing as more GOPers, and a higher percentage, are exiting stage right than Dems exiting stage left, you cons are concerned about the speck in their eye and ignoring the friggin 2 X 4 in your own.
I never said I live in Chicago. I went to law school there, but have lived in Cleveland for the past 16 years. I just paid $2.60 for gas while driving between Cleveland and Columbus. In town it is probably closer to $2.75.
Among the hospitals that have closed here during my 16 years here include the ones mentioned previously, as well as St. Michaels, St. Lukes, Mt. Sinai, and another one on the south central side of town that I can’t recall at the moment. To say that hospitals have not “closed” but there has been “consolidation” reminds me of the road manager in “This is Spinal Tap” saying that the lads were “playing to a more selective audiance.” In fact, those hospitals closed for the same reason that Metro, the county hospital, is in trouble: too much uncompensated care extended to people without insurance.
When I was at Legal Aid (my BigFirm mandatory pro bono stop) one of the clients I helped was a guy who was a mid 50 year old laid off engineer from Lakewood. Just after his COBRA ran out, he had a stroke. His bill from Metro was about $80,000. He was one of those people too young for Medicare, too “rich” for Medicaid, and not wealthy enough to pay the $500 per month to continue COBRA. THAT is the problem with our system that needs to be fixed: the middle class, the shaky relationship between employment and health care coverage, and the bankrupting effects (on individuals and hospitals) of uninsured and, therefore, uncompensated health care. Add in Medicare and Medicaid paying low and paying slow, add in insurance companies unwilling to pay a dollar more than Medicare/caid does and you have a situation where my soon to be ex gets reinbursed about 30 cents on the dollar . . . from both government and non-government sources.
The GOP had several years of uninterrupted control of the House, the Senate, and the White House. There were enough interested Dems who would have GLADLY gotten involved to address the engineer’s problem I just mentioned –= led by Ted Kennedy. But did the GOP ever make any effort to address the problem? No. It simply was not a priority. Likewise, had the GOP actually tried to get involved in solving the problem now, maybe there would have been a “better” less statist oriented bill. But, again, the GOP calculation was to just stand on the side lines, yell “death panels”, and try to keep the unworkable and nutty status quo going.
Where was the GOP proposal on pre-existing conditions? At least the Dems give the insurance companies some cover on that by expanding the pool with the coverage mandate. But now the GOP attorney generals want to attack the coverage mandate, as if that has nothing to do with any other part of the bill. Again . . . no interest in solving the problem, just pissing in the lemonade.
There is a reason why you guys are the minority party, getting older and shrinking. There is a reason why people under 35 are more willing to say they have the clap than claim the GOP is their party. “Keep your government hands off my Medicare” says it all: you cons have made yourself the joke.
Chihuahua —
Strongsville, Chardon and Avon are all in the Cleveland area. Gas is $2.61 in Strongsville. But I bought my $2.60 gas in the boonies, anyway, between Columbus and Cleveland.
Missy — I never said I lived in Chicago. You inferred it because someone called me a “South Side” lawyer. I went to school there and have lived in Cleveland for the past 16 years.
So, let me get this right:
You’re pretty much flip flopping on what you’ve said piror about being in Chicago?
Wait… what?
The price of gas from day to day is a rediculous place to draw a line in the sand anyhow. This plrice fluctuates daily, and is difficult to micro-predict. Over the weekend guys, 2.60 in strongsville may have been possible, not in Avon, I am uncertain about Chardon. After Tuesday’s market restoration, no way. Who cares? Gas prices are artificially high due to government meddling in the marketplace. Since the Democrat takeover of congress in 2006, the average price has more than doubled. If the socialist party aparatchiks would move out of the way, gas would be what it should be, closer to a buck a gallon. Let us drill where technology permits, and refine it free of the nonsensical regional requirements, and rid ourselves of the punative government taxation of a very useful comodity. The fact that B-Rob is able to point to a meaningless drop in daily retail pricing shows nothing but an argument from a very weak position. By the way B-Rob, in 2008 the Zero stated in one of his SEIU campaign gigs, he thinks 4 bucks a gallon by the end of his first term would be a fair price.
I wouldn’t exactly say, “doubled.” In 2006 gas prices were pretty much where they are now but climbing up. Infact, if memory recalls the Democrats in Congress/Senate mostly ran on a platform of bringing fuel prices down and to combat the evil Bush fuel monopoly. Funny how in 2008 the fuel prices were almost tipping 4.00 or higher a gallon across the nation while Congress did completely nothing to fuel prices. I remember paying almost 3.46 a gallon of gas in Wichita back in 2008 a few times in the summer and the local papers warning that 2009’s projected fuel prices could hit 4.50… I also still had a job in 2008 at Cessna till Congress choosed to insult Private Aircraft industries…
@B-Rob: Correction, I called you a “South side Shyster.” And there’s not much difference between Chicago and Cleveland.
And I can’t wait to celebrate the election of my friend John Kasich, as Ohio Governor in November!
@ B-Rob the communist
I’d imagine with the loose moral standards and rampant promiscuity of today’s youth, more youngsters having the clap than membership in the GOP is probably closer to the truth than you realize.
Of course B-Rob the communist totally over looks the 30 House bills introduced by Republicans that were pointed out in post 78. Go figue.
What resembles an osterich with it’s head in the sand? A demonicrat.
Oh! Oh!… I’m on a roll now! What do you see when the pillsbury doughboy bends over? Doughnuts
Hey, I’d rather be a member of the orginal Grand Old Party that liberated an Enslaved People during the Civil War than suffering from Clap or any other S.T.D.
@Donald Bly: I guess he hasn’t seen the newest Gallup poll.
Conservatives are on the rise!
And we ain’t voting for Democrats!
I’ve been spending a lot of time positing on the NEA’s public discussion boards. It’s really quite comical and ultimately sad to see the misinformation, ignorance and downright rabid leftist propensity of todays teachers.
It is no wonder that so many feel that today’s teachers are incompetent. Their writings, at least on those boards is evidence that you can’t teach people to reason. Unfortunately at some point the issue of diversity of ideology in our teaching professions needs to be addressed or we will continually have new crops of brainwashed children entering the ranks of the voting public.
Donald, don’t lose hope. One thing that I have learned about kids and children. They could care less what the teachers ideological bent. Most kids tune out the political rantings of their teachers, and I have found from personal experience is that children love the truth, especially teens, and they can smell a line of bull from very far off. They and our college youth have learned the art of survival in school. Tell them what they want to hear, collect your good grades and move on.
I really believe that teahers don’t have all that great of impact as they believe that they do. What a child leans and respects is what they learn and value at home, and many parents, once they grow up and have children, surprisingly revert back to a more conservative approach.
Tradition has always worked because the definition of tradition is this: those attitudes, beliefs and customs that withstand the test of time. Sorry for the cliche, but it is true.
Don’t despair.
@Tammy
Thanks for the words of encouragement but when I see a post like the one below I truly believe that our education system needs some real reform. Granted children may outgrow or eventually see the leftist rantings for what they are, however, the apparent ignorance and down right incompetence of some of the people teaching our children is another story.
I had to direct the individual to http://www.dictionary.com so that he could enlighten himself as to the meaning of “posits”.
This brings me to the question; Should unions be allowed to represent teachers? The fact that most school districts are essentially closed shop bastions of unionism, does unionization of teachers serve a useful public purpose or is it an impediment towards ensuring that our children are given the best opportunity for a quality education?
@ TammyL
I was chagrined to see Sean Hannity use the term “Tea Bag Movement” last night on his show. Hopefully, some of his staff noticed and he subsequently issued an apology, but I didn’t see it.
@John Cooper: Obviously Sean Hannity is a RINO and must be boycotted!
Mr. Irons —
No I didn’t “flip flop” on where I live, because I never said I live in Chicago. In fact, please find the post where I said I did, since you accused me of lying.
Donald Bly —
Go see your doctor. Tell him that he needs to take you up a step on the meds because your cognition is slipping. Don, if “Communist” is the best you can do to describe the part that controls 60% of the Senate, a similar percentage of the House, and the same percentave of the state houses, then what does that say about the GOP? That the average American would rather have Communists running the show than the GOP speaks a mouthful about the rot that is the current Party of Lincoln.
And Don, the fact the young people don’t and won’t vote GOPer, a HUGE swing from 20 years ago, that means nothing to you? Let me put it this way: if a product manufacturer found out that its product was skewing older and older because young people reject it; it was becoming more regional and having less appeal nationwide (even in the New England region where the product used to rule the roost); if the product was less and less attractive to fast growing minority groups; and college educate people and subsurbanites are also running from it too — that product manufacturere would want to do something FAST to solve the problem. But what is the GOP response to this? Tea baggers, birthers and death panels. Yeah . . . that works.
Mike —
Kasich was a hot commodity . . . back in the late 80s! He will be running against a pro-gun Methodist minister who will have balanced the budget by CUTTING SPENDING first, then raising taxes as a last resort. Kasich has the same chance of winning that a beef tenderloin has when thrown to a hungry dog: slim and none.
It’s intresting, is it not that when placed into a corner, you deny your flip flopping of locations. Ok then, I will ask you this: What is your Legal Practice, Zip Code and Congressional District of Operation? Hint: One of those is a trick question, figure out which.
@Mike’s America:
Are you talking about Gallup? They mentioned that in January, 2009 Democrats had the lead in the Generic Ballot by 7 points.
Now, January. 2010, Republicans are up 9 points……Dems lost 16 points in a year and it is now Republicans favored by 44%, Dems sitting with 35%.
What a difference a year makes!
Or, are you talking about Rasmussen?
Last year 37% identified as conservatives and 37% identified as moderates, liberals…..only 22% would claim that.
This year, 40% are claiming the conservative mantle, the moderates, 36% losing a point and liberals are still sucking the hind teet, also losing a point to come in at a whopping 21%.
IMHO, the biggest “con” was the “Lap Dummy” his ventriloquist managed to fool much of the 52% that voted for the dummy. They were “conned” into believing he was moderate. Bet that act don’t sell a second time.
Flyovercountry —
Your wrote the following:
“Gas prices are artificially high due to government meddling in the marketplace.”
Simply wrong. Gas prices are directly related to the price of oil. When it shoots to $130 per barrel, expect our gas to cost about 80% more than it does now. Indeed, the proof that you are simply WRONG is the fact that gas prices dropped from $4 per gallon in June 2008 to about $1.60 per gallon in December 2008 with NO CHANGE IN GOVERNMENT POLICIES WHATSOEVER.
“Since the Democrat takeover of congress in 2006, the average price has more than doubled.”
Simply a flat out bald faced lie. You made that up and it is simply false. You are either ignorant of the facts or you are lying on purpose.
As someone was so kind to point out, the gas prices in my area were ranging recently from $2.60 per gallon up to $2.80. Now let’s see where prices for regular gas were nationwide (first column):
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/ftparea/wogirs/xls/pswrgvwreg.xls#'Data 1′!A1
According to this chart (official numbers, dude), gas was about $1.46 when Clinton left office in January 2001. When Bush was inaugurated in 2005, it was at $1.84. When the Dems turned the Congress in November 2006, it was at $2.33 and when Obama was elected in November 2008, it was at $2.34. It later got as low as $1.60 per gallon.
Under what definition of yours is $2.60 now “double” the $2.33 price from November 2006? Because where I come from, that is about an 11.5% increase.
“If the socialist party aparatchiks would move out of the way, gas would be what it should be, closer to a buck a gallon.”
Like I said, gas was about $1.46 when Clinton left office and the GOPers took over everything. And what happened to the price of gas? Just look at the chart! So no “socialists” were in control, only GOPers, and the price skyrocketed and has NEVER gone back to Bill Clinton era levels. If anything, we should be following whatever policies were in place back then, NOT whatever Bush and Co. put in place. Because pricewise, that appears to have been a disaster.
“Let us drill where technology permits, and refine it free of the nonsensical regional requirements, and rid ourselves of the punative government taxation of a very useful comodity.”
That “punitive” taxation keeps our roads in decent condition. If we drop the tax, where do you propose we get the money to repair the highways? is the magic tax cut fairy gonna drop bags of money on Washington?
“The fact that B-Rob is able to point to a meaningless drop in daily retail pricing shows nothing but an argument from a very weak position.”
Er, yeah. Keept tellin’ yourself that. I provided the hard data to prove my point. What did you provide? Nothing but a flat out wrong statement of fiction.
“By the way B-Rob, in 2008 the Zero stated in one of his SEIU campaign gigs, he thinks 4 bucks a gallon by the end of his first term would be a fair price.”
Care to provide a link to that?
@ B-Rob the Communist, Pinko, Socialist, Red, Markist, P.O.S.
I noticed that you, in your typical style, focused on a tangent while totally ignoring the 30 pieces of Republican legislation that has been introduced, contrary to your previous lying assertion that the GOP has offered nothing.
Hope you like the expansion of your new title, as you requested.
@Mr. Irons:
He’s been the butt of jokes in here for at least three months because of his practice in Chicago and has never once corrected anyone. After he mentions living in Cleveland in this thread and was called on it he suddenly feels the need to set the record straight. He brought up it all here in the first place. lying then or lying now.
Gas prices, as by How Stuff Works:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/fuel-consumption/gas-price.htm
In reality, contary to your statement, gas prices ber bid of barrel of oil doesn’t truly factor into the final price of petro products. The current inventories produced on hand and ammount shipped do. Biddings on Crude Oil is the equal of Gold Value, it is only a fraction of the costs of the end good. Federal and State Taxation policies in the focus of Energy Consumption greatly factor into American Fuel prices more so than market bidding on Crude as there are other supplies of Oil outside of the bidding market for Crude for Companies to acquire and refine up to including internal acquistion and processing. State Laws also factor into the price as different States and Cities within the State have a “blend” law which dictates the Octane and chemical composure of the Gasoline consumed for cars, which can spike prices up by 20 cents alone before taxes are applied. And finaly there is the Demand for the good, which in winter time the demand shifts generaly to heating oils which means quick retrofit of reinferies to make oils and a decrease in gasoline supplied. The Demand, either way is high, the supply is purposely made short when in reality Oil wells (even with our consumption rate) won’t disappear for another 150 years.
Rasmussen . . . the guy who was a paid pollster for Bush? That Rasmussen? Yeah, there’s a nice independent source of information for ya!
It’s funny . . . this thing started out as a discussion about how Dems were “dropping like flies” with retirements from the House, the Senate, and the goivernor seats. Then I point out the following facts:
Out of 178 House Republicans, 14 are retiring — 7.9%
Out of 256 Democratic House members, 10 are retiring — 3.9%
Out of 40 GOPer Senators, 6 Senate Republicans are retiring — that’s 15%
2 Democrats out of 58 are retiring — 3.4%
In the states, 3 Democrats have opted against reelection to governorships out of the 27 seats held by Dems — 11%
Of the 23 GOPers, 4 are leaving — 17%
* * * * *
If the GOPers were an army, they would be in full retreat mode!
Rasmussen has been a Pollster well before Bush, Jr. was even considering being a Governor…
And a Tactical Retreat is not something to laugh about. In History, almost every single time a hostile force gives quick chase to a taticaly retreating force, that hostile force generaly suffers massive loses to a regrouped and reinforced opposition in a new battlefield that does not allow application of the hostile force’s tactics.