UPDATE:
It appears that ABC News’ Political Punch Blog has tried to confirm this story, and is claiming that Sen Obama’s story is true (though not told directly to him, but through a staffer). Readers are encouraged to not only read the ABC News comments, but the comments to the contrary posted here at Flopping Aces. They can be informative regardless of political orientation. -Scott
END UPDATE
Me thinks this little blurb will come back to bite Obama in the ass. Just my guess:
OBAMA: You know, I’ve heard from an Army captain who was the head of a rifle platoon — supposed to have 39 men in a rifle platoon. Ended up being sent to Afghanistan with 24 because 15 of those soldiers had been sent to Iraq.
And as a consequence, they didn’t have enough ammunition, they didn’t have enough Humvees. They were actually capturing Taliban weapons, because it was easier to get Taliban weapons than it was for them to get properly equipped by our current commander in chief.
First of all, and correct me if I’m wrong on this Chris (seeing as how I’ve been out for 18 years) but the military rarely splits a platoon across theaters, maybe companies but platoons? Nope…..Secondly, Captains don’t lead platoons, they lead companies. Thirdly, on the weapons thing it may very well because the AK is just a damn good desert weapon that rarely jams PLUS having a weapon that sounds like the enemies and doesn’t sound like one of our M16’s is probably a pretty good tactic. They may be grabbing the AK’s but I’m doubting its because they are not getting supplied. Fourth, if they are so underequipped how in the hell are they able to capture all these weapons in the first place? Just going up and asking the Taliban for em?
I’m gonna call shenanigans (codeword for he is lying through his teeth) on these charges by Obama.
Oh, and one last note. It’s Congress that gives the money to the Military Senator Obama….not the Commander in Chief.
UPDATE
Great comments left by Chris and Caelestis who is in Iraq right now. Caelestis:
Now as far as personnel there is a thing called cross leveling where people that are not deploying are brought into a unit so that the unit can deploy with full strength. I know I just watched it happen in Hawaii with the 2nd SBCT 25th ID (I’ll explain what all those capitalized letters mean later Mr. Obama)….What you are describing doesn’t happen Mr. Obama because if it did happen, there would be an 0-6 and an 0-5 and a bunch of 0-4’s and especially one extremely pissed off 0-3 who would have screamed loud enough that even the NY Times could have heard them over your droning speeches to notice…..A Brigade commander that let something like this happen would have lost total respect and honor from every officer in his brigade,
and Chris:
Now as for weapons. No kidding we use the enemy’s when we can. The same is true for the initial invasion of Iraq. Ammunition is always a sought commodity, but there was no shortage of transports getting it to Afghanistan. HOWEVER, in the midst of a fire fight, ammo runs low and many Soldiers/Marines know how to use the AK series (AKM/AK-74 and SVD). Since a majority of US Military Members are gun owners/shooters and many are NRA members, we tend to learn all we can about weapons and teach those who are not hunters/shooters in our ranks. A light infantry unit can only carry so much ammo on extended missions. Air resupply is not always available while in combat (helicopters draw enemy fire for some reason) and ground resupply is not always able to get up the goat trails that comprise Afghanistan.
UPDATE II
I see the lefty reporter Jack Tapper from ABC has wrote a piece refuting this post. Apparently he talked to the man in question and we find out that this all happened 5 years ago. For the rest I will use Chris as my source seeing as how he is a active duty Major in the Army:
No corraborating evidence besides allegedly talking to the (former?) officer? Further more, no mention that M2s, MK-19s, and HMMWVs are not part of the 10th MOUNTAIN Division’s standard MTOE at Rifle Co level in 2003. They are light infantry… LIGHT means they walk. M2s and MK-19s were reserved for higher level weapons platoons, not rifle platoons, and those were man-packed. This means the weapons are taken apart and moved.
On the parts issue, with the influx of heavier weapons, the units probably did have trouble at first taking care of the “new” heavy guns. The M2 is not in production any more and all parts come from rebuilds or stocks. They also need more specialized tools and care than an M4/M16/M240/M249. The M2HB I had on my M1A1 was manufactured in 1943 for instance and in 1997 would have been down a long time if damaged due to lack of funding. This person said they had no problems with the organic weapons they had, but with weapons which the Army added from experience in theater.
Then we have the Pentagon refuting Tapper’s anonymous “Captain”:
The Pentagon on Friday cast doubt on an account of military equipment shortages mentioned by Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama during a debate with rival Hillary Clinton.
During the face-to-face encounter on Thursday evening, Obama said he had heard from an Army captain whose unit had served in Afghanistan without enough ammunition or vehicles.
Obama said it was easier for the troops to capture weapons from Taliban militants than it was “to get properly equipped by our current commander in chief,” President George W. Bush.
“I find that account pretty hard to imagine,” Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman told reporters.
“Despite the stress that we readily acknowledge on the force, one of the things that we do is make sure that all of our units and service members that are going into harm’s way are properly trained, equipped and with the leadership to be successful,” he said.
Whitman’s remarks were unusual as the Pentagon often declines to talk about comments from political campaigns.
Of course with the “Captain” remaining anonymous its hard to come right out and say the man is lying since the Pentagon doesn’t have the particulars such as the dates, units, and other important info. With him remaining in the shadows its easier for Barack and his pal Tapper to just say “believe us” because well, just because. Which leads to this great rundown from Scott:
Some guy told some staffer who told Obama who couldn’t even repeat the story accurately. That’s the reality, the truth, and the facts.
UPDATE III
Remember Obama said this:
They were actually capturing Taliban weapons, because it was easier to get Taliban weapons than it was for them to get properly equipped by our current commander in chief.
According to Tapper and his anonymous “Captain:
“The purpose of going after the Taliban was not to get their weapons,” he said, but on occasion they used Taliban weapons. Sometimes AK-47s, and they also mounted a Soviet-model DShK (or “Dishka”) on one of their humvees instead of their 50 cal.
Which jives with what all of us bloggers were saying last night. They were getting those weapons because they are good desert fighting steel. NOT because of a lack of weapon supplies which is the opposite of what Obama was alleging.
Allah links to the AP with this which should be pointed out:
Obama said the platoon was supposed to have 39 soldiers. A platoon does not have to consist of 39, but can have between 16 to 40 soldiers, according to standard Army unit organization. It is also commanded by a lieutenant and not a captain.
Finally Vets for Freedom just issued this press release:
Vets for Freedom questions the recent comments by Senator Barack Obama (D-Ill) in the Democratic debate last night, in which he stated that American troops were “capturing Taliban weapons because it was easier to get Taliban weapons than get equipped by our current Commander in Chief”.
“Yet again Senator Obama has demonstrated the loose grip he holds on the reality of these conflicts,” said Vets for Freedom State Captain, and Afghanistan Army veteran Daniel Bell. “Senator Obama’s comments are insulting not only to those who have served and are still serving in Afghanistan but to all who serve in the armed forces. I can attest from my first hand experience that these comments are incredulous and that we were supplied all the tools necessary to complete our missions.”
He continued “His statements last night assert that he lacks the necessary knowledge to make serious judgments on military matters, that he is prone to dangerous exaggeration, and that he is grossly unaware of the facts on the ground. I call on other veterans of Afghanistan to respond to these ridiculous allegations and to remind Senator Obama that it is the sacrifice of those serving in Iraq and Afghanistan that allows him to so freely speak in this manner.”
But I guess the main point of this whole thing should be the fact that Democrats, especially Democrats like Obama, wanted to cut funding to the troops and run like cowards from the fight but now want to use lack of equipment as some sort of attack against a war they wanted to defund anyway…..and THATS why they should be elected!
Yeah….
The part that the Messiah can’t spin away is that this is another case of the US military adapting and overcoming. It’s been going on since our inception; adaptibility has survived Presidents and wars, and is just as strong as ever. So while he votes against our funding, then talks of how the CiC can’t get us adequate equipment, talking out of both sides of his mouth so hard he’s coming in in Stereo, those of us in uniform just laugh, find what works, and keep going.
UPDATE IV
No one says it like Ace:
Tapper thinks his job is done if he merely talks to a guy making these claims; but perhaps he should actually do some actual reporting and find out if our army is being denied key ammunition in training.
The left has a habit of claiming victory when some small detail is corroborated. Obama fucking claimed our troops HAD TO — not chose to on occasion — capture the very weapons with which they were expected to fight the enemy.
Tapper gets a guy claiming “Yeah, once we took a captured Soviet heavy machine gun and used it on a truck.”
Then they say, “Ah-ha! You owe Obama an apology! He was Right!”
They did the exact same thing with Beauchamp.
Beauchamp claims that a guy picks up a child’s skull from a mass grave and dances around his fellow soldiers while wearing the skull as a fucking yarmulke.
One soldier says, “We found some bones, they looked like animal bones but maybe they were human.”
The left claims: Ah-ha! TNR had it exactly right! Apologize!
Really? What about that fucking shit you mentioned about wearing the child’s skull as a yarmulke while dancing around your commanding officer like Pennywise the clown?
Same thing here, it seems. Obama spins out a ludicrous exaggeration, some claims are found to support (if you credit the claim) a much more plausible version of the claims he made, which are as far from the original as the lightning bug is from the lightning, and… we’re wrong, we need to apologize.
Okay, whatever.
See author page
hE HAD NO CLUE WHAT HE WAS SAYING AMERICA IS IN TROUBLE IF HE WINS
No he didn’t say that , I can’t believe my lying ears. First A platoon is led by a Lieutenant not a captain. Second never has a platoon been broken up on assignment. There is so much wrong with what he said. what a colossal bunch of clap trap.
Good catch Jain, just updated the post.
What a crock of outright lies and BS!!!! Platoons are not split up along theater level lines. A Platoon is the smallest tactical element commonly employed. Normal Squads, which make up Platoons, do not go out alone unless covered by something big (Tank/Infantry squad teams for example).
Units are not halved for combat!! Units in Afghanistan were not used in Iraq and the two events occurred almost a year apart!! 10th Mountain went into Afghanistan fully manned. 10th Mountain was not used in Iraq. Also, all units have organic vehicles. Divisions are not stripped of vehicles for another theater operation. We have APS fleets to cover this (pre-deployed assets in Kuwait)!!! Obama should know about this as funding for the APS fleets are in the appropriations bills.
So on this aspect: FLAT OUT LIE by Obama!!!!!!
Now, as for Obama’s military skills, exactly WHAT captain leads a platoon?????? 2LTs lead platoons with a few 1LTs who might lead one as the senior platoon leader in a company, COMMANDED by a captain. Maybe this was a captain who lead a platoon years ago, however, Obama’s lack of knowledge betrays him. Even if Obama is not slandering/making up a story by the officer, it will be the first anyone I know of has heard about this lack of equipment and ammo issue.
Now as for weapons. No kidding we use the enemy’s when we can. The same is true for the initial invasion of Iraq. Ammunition is always a sought commodity, but there was no shortage of transports getting it to Afghanistan. HOWEVER, in the midst of a fire fight, ammo runs low and many Soldiers/Marines know how to use the AK series (AKM/AK-74 and SVD). Since a majority of US Military Members are gun owners/shooters and many are NRA members, we tend to learn all we can about weapons and teach those who are not hunters/shooters in our ranks. A light infantry unit can only carry so much ammo on extended missions. Air resupply is not always available while in combat (helicopters draw enemy fire for some reason) and ground resupply is not always able to get up the goat trails that comprise Afghanistan.
However, I know a captain who commanded in 10th Mountain in Afghanistan during the most intense fighting there and he NEVER had problems with lack of men, equipment, or ammo. But then, I am an Army officer who, like a VAST, near total majority of us, supports the war so my opinion is unwanted by the left.
The more Obama speaks, the more he digs holes.
Chris G,
The beauty of is- there are 8 1/2 months between now and Election Day. This gives Obama and his lovely wife plenty of time to dazzle us with his knowledge and rhetoric. Independents and blue dogs will be appalled.
As I look at that clip, I detect a hint of disbelief from Hillary. Too bad she couldn’t argue with him over the details because it would look like she was defending the military- a donkey primary no-no.
This is “Change”?! A politician that can distinguish between his hat from his ass? We are in trouble. The only reason liberals like him is because he is “young and good-looking”. That is the extent of liberal thinking. Shallow.
The military will often on purpose use the AK to confuse the enemy. The two weapons, Ak and M-16, are distinctly different sounding, so the confusion often works. The weapon firing sounds can throw off the enemy as to exactly where troops are and who they are. Our guys have the communications, so they keep it together, the enemy falls apart chasing sounds. You often see special ops armed this way, if you pay close attention.
The rest sounds like make believe, since the public hasn’t a clue and the media won’t report — They are too busy fabricated the McCain sex story to care anyway.
O looked like he was making this up as he went along. My 5yr old daughter does that too when she’s caught stealing cookies from the pantry. Really, if the moderator had given him a followup and some more time…just how deep would his hole have been dug? Oh well, at least he didn’t say his plan for ending the war in Afghanistan is a submarine blockade.
Senator Obama – WHY Didn’t YOU vote to PROVIDE more supplies for the TROOPS? Sir, If you haven’t noticed CONGRESS controls the budget.
Senator Clinton – Why did YOU go to Iraq (Thanksgiving 2003) to tell the Troops that folks back home DO NOT support their mission?
Just to be clear- 10th MTN WAS USED in Iraq; they had areas around Baghdad in 2006; one of my former Colonels commanded one of the BCT’s for it.
-Wolf
Why then, did Osama vote against funding the military?
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/110/senate/1/votes/181/
This bill also funded the war in Afghanistan. Obama was one of the 14 that voted to let our troops scavenge the battlefield for ammo instead of being properly supplied.
I could see something like a specialized maintenance platoon or a CBR unit being split, but he specifically said rifle platoon so i have to agree with everyone else this is BS.
This demonstrates such a COMPLETE ignorance of military operations and organization on so many levels that it very well could be a Mucacca moment come the general. Really, can anyone see this clip playing in a McCain ad where McCain (a Navy guy) explains that, “America is a nation at war, and we have a choice between a man who doesn’t understand the military, votes against equipment funding, then complains that troops don’t have enough equipment vs. a distinguished military hero.”
YouTube is gonna explode with this stuff in the fall.
But hhw can the Obmamessiah lie. He is for “Change” and gives people “Hope”. this must be a forgery.
/sarcasm
This is what all ofthe Defeatocrats are like. None of them know anything about how a war or how the military operates. this will bite him in the ass “big time” in the General Elections , unless somehow Hillary steals the delegates for the Primaries.
Change=dhimmitude
He’s really going to have to bone up on that military stuff if he gets elected and decides to go through with his desire to invade Pakistan….
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN0132206420070801?&src=080107_1442_DOUBLEFEATURE_dozens_dead_in_iraq
Seeing as how I am in Iraq again right now, I thought I would add a few facts to counter Obama’s delusion…..Granted Afghanistan is a different beast but the basic rules still apply
1. Humvees….A unit falls in on the humvees belonging to the unit that they are conducting RIP/TOA with. That way the transportation system is free to ship more things like bullets, food, water, Strykers, and other assorted sundries of war. Humvees in theater have been in theater for a while, and as such there is little need to ship a lot of them….
2. Ok, so since our supply element ships 5.56 to theater and the troops are supposedly using 7.62mm ammo wouldn’t there be at some point a ridiculous overage of 5.56 so that if there ever was a shortage it lasted about a week? Conversely if our troops were arming themselves with AK-47’s in large enough numbers to conduct patrols, we must be killing a whole hell of a lot of taliban. Or making discoveries of huge cahces of weapons, or finding thousands of weapons and tens of thousands of rounds on the battlefield from retreating Taliban forces. All signs would point to a succees in Afghanistan that the media, the Democratic party, and the left wing blogosphere are all trying to cover up. I mean if our guys are using AK’s exclusively then what is the Taliban using?
Platoon split? Yeah ok, this is the most silly argument of all. First things first Mr. Obama; A 2LT commands a platoon, as does a 1LT in certain situations but he is usually a company XO as well. A captain commands a company, not a platoon. A platoon is attached to a company, which is attached to a battalion, which is almost always attached to a Brigade. Now as far as personnel there is a thing called cross leveling where people that are not deploying are brought into a unit so that the unit can deploy with full strength. I know I just watched it happen in Hawaii with the 2nd SBCT 25th ID (I’ll explain what all those capitalized letters mean later Mr. Obama)….What you are describing doesn’t happen Mr. Obama because if it did happen, there would be an 0-6 and an 0-5 and a bunch of 0-4’s and especially one extremely pissed off 0-3 who would have screamed loud enough that even the NY Times could have heard them over your droning speeches to notice…..A Brigade commander that let something like this happen would have lost total respect and honor from every officer in his brigade, and since you don’t know anything about the military Mr. Obama, I’ll forgive you this one time…..To military people respect and honor are as important as the air they breathe…..I expect you to show a little respect and honor for the military and either prove your statement or retract it…….but hey I’m just a veteran and defense contractor currently in Iraq that is proud of his country for so many things, I know in your eyes I am not the change you have been waiting for…………
Chris: Thanks for exposing Obama’s empty suit rhetoric to the light of experience and reality.
I’m not sure how deep the light will penetrate into those who worship at the Obama altar and who have already forsworn any independent thought, but have, as other commenters suggested, eight months to chip away at the false idol Obama represents.
Thanks again Chris. For your service to our country both ON and OFF the field of battle.
Wolf,
I meant the 2002-03 deployments when we supposedly “took our eye off the ball” in Afghanistan to go to Iraq. 10th Mountain went to Iraq after refitting from Afghanistan when their Afghan tour was over. But I understand your point and apologise that I was not specific (it was 12:30AM when I saw the post and became livid).
As the 101st, 3ID, 3rd BCT/1AD, USMC, and other heavy units were in the initial drive through Iraq (with 4th ID following), there was no need to pull units from Afghanistan.
Sorry for the confusion on that. I was upset at the ignorant and unchallenged remarks of Obama and was not specific enough.
As for the ammo issue, I remember being a PL, ASST S-3, and XO in Germany (97-2000) when we had barely enough ammo to qualify personal weapons once a year and had to cross-level tank ammo to qualify the battalion. I also remember the field grades worrying about our lack of available OPTEMPO miles (funding for vehicle maintenance and operations is based on so much $/mile/year) and having to restrict tank movement for funding reasons. We went to Bosnia in 1998 and it was a CO Grade ART-15 event if a round broke lose from a magazine and was lost! Whether the last was due to lack of funding or fear of scandel by the senior officers is debatable.
I also remember ammunition plants closing in the 90s and the government scrambling to buy civilian ammo even as the remaining factories spun up over the last few years (just in case anyone was wondering why .223/5.56 and .308/7.62 NATO ammo went up in price). The “Peace Dividend” cost us in the end…. You would think we would have learned by now that just because we disarm and dismantle that no one else will.
Caelestis,
Stay safe and if you are still deployed later this year, we might meet as I got my W.O. for deployment this week. Knowing my luck, I will deploy in July on the hottest day….
One thing to remember every time one sees or hears a leftist reprt on some combat zone problem,
there are an awful lot of phony stories and people running around. Here are a few examples, that are Reported
“The case against a former political official who claimed to be a prisoner of war was also spotlighted Friday.
Former Army Spc. Michael Heit, a former chairman of the Constitution Party of Montana who ran for a seat in the state legislature, pleaded guilty to two counts of filing false DD-214s to VA and the Military Order of the Purple Heart in 2005.
The forged discharge documents claimed Heit was a decorated Vietnam veteran who earned a Bronze Star with combat “V” and three Purple Hearts. He also claimed he was held prisoner by North Vietnam from 1969 to 1972.”
If one want to know how high these phony claims reach, just look at Sen Harkins D-Ia , claimed he flew combat missions in Vietnam. Never did.
The last Presidential campaign featured a leftist that either couldn’t record dates in a personal diary correctly or didn’t know how he received his first band aid. Either didn’t know where he was on a Christmas in a combat zone,or wasn’t where he was supposed to be. Either wasn’t aware of who the President of the US was on a certain day or ?. Had a device awarded which was awarded to no other American, or some fouled up orders. Has an award signed by an Admiral who claims he never signed the form. Had a some very strange discharge/release days.
Here’s one thought on Him ”
“As a correspondent pointed out to me in an e-mail, each episode of the HBO series Band of Brothers, begins with a voiceover in which the narrator says of the World War II soldiers portrayed in the program: “I was not a hero, but I was surrounded by heroes.” In contrast, what John Kerry is saying in essence about his “band of brothers” is that “in Vietnam, I was a hero, but I was surrounded by war criminals.”
When dealing with leftists and their stories about the US military, one can not trust them, and they create so much garbage, it is virtually impossible to verify them
Here’s another take. Our Armed forces are so good, they can defeat the enemy without ammo. We just take theirs away from them.
Obama is an idiot and a lightweight.
ChrisG, I’m sure tactics have changed in the last 30-40 yrs but in ‘Nam squads would do 24 hr patrols. Sometimes less than squad strength KATs were used.
Tom
Phony Vietnam vets. “The remaining unconfirmed 125,812 probable Vietnam War service personnel do not account for the 9 million plus Americans, as of 1995, who falsely and fraudulently claimed to be in-country/in-waters Vietnam veterans. As of 2005 the number of Vietnam War claimants has grown. A repeat of The American War Library”‘”s 1995 national survey in 2005 reported that a greater number — 11,104,005 — (a 71.68% increase over ten years) of Americans since 1995 claimed to have served in Vietnam (In-Country/In-Waters), and 2,591,083 Americans claimed to have served aboard a U.S. naval vessel in Vietnamese waters (between 1955 and 1975). The total number of Americans claiming in 2005 to be eligible or possessing authorization of the United States Vietnam War Service Medal (Reference #7) is 13,695,088.” Article
I last posted this on this site on 21 Jan 08 during a discussion about homeless vets.
How many phony stories can 9 million phony leftists tell? Who knows-they have evidently already told at least 9 million of them.
“, DOD also published a subsequent report that listed the probable number of true Vietnam veterans to be 3,001,012. This number was based on 281,104 American military record files that indicated possible in-country or in-waters Vietnam service either prior to 1963 or after 1974.”
To make it simple 3,001,012 of us were there–9 plus million more claimed they were but weren’t.
D’Oh – It turns out that Obama was right after all:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/from-the-fact-3.html
Eat crow y’all.
Curt, my husband is active duty and on his way back from Baghdad this weekend. I sent him the quote from Obama to which MSG Proctor replied:
What a load of crap, Obama! If he wanted to make a point that the military is stretched, fine, but don’t lie to make a point. He should have at least fact checked.
I’m still skeptical, and here’s why…
-Obama said the guy was a Captain, but now we find out that he was (more realistically) an Lt 5yrs ago. Clarification is good, but it still shows Obama didn’t know what he was talking about enough to say it clearly.
-Obama made it sound like the ammo shortage was in combat, and this article makes it sound like it was more a stateside training issue. That’s not surprising given that the US was fighting in at least six different countries at the time.
-Up-armored HUMMVs (to my knowledge) weren’t really a big deal until the roadside bombs became a big deal starting in 2003/4.
-For all we know this could be another Scott Beauchamp; sourcing needs to be better
-In every account I’ve read about 2001-2003 in Afghanistan, the forces are described as very well-equipped (and I’m talking first hand accounts from when the first Green Berets and air controllers arrived in 2001, through Operation Anaconda, and beyond). It just doesn’t mesh with what I’ve read and what I’ve been told.
Still sounds doubtful imo
No Crow will be eaten today Auster, except maybe by you in the end.
I read your link and have to wonder if this Soldier also let his guys run over dogs with an M2 IFV or laughed at contractors.
No cooraborating evidence besides allegedly talking to the (former?) officer? Further more, no mention that M2s, MK-19s, and HMMWVs are not part of the 10th MOUNTAIN Division’s standard MTOE. They are light infantry… LIGHT means they walk. M2s and MK-19s were reserved for higher level weapons platoons, not rifle platoons, and those were man-packed. This means the weapons are taken apart and moved.
On the parts issue, with the influx of heavier weapons, the units probably did have trouble at first taking care of the “new” heavy guns. The M2 is not in production any more and all parts come from rebuilds or stocks. They also need more specialized tools and care than an M4/M16/M240/M249. The M2HB I had on my M1A1 was manufactured in 1943 for instance and in 1997 would have been down a long time if damaged due to lack of funding. This person said they had no problems with the organic weapons they had, but with weapons which the Army added from experience in threater.
Also, see my comments above on the closing of the ammunition plants in the 90s and the scramble to re-tool and upgrade them since.
Futhermore, why did this reporter use an Army study guide page for the MK-19 reference? It is not like a simple search would reveal better sources.
Your link does nothing but add the “Beuchamp” factor to the mix.
Amy,
As I said above, the VAST, near total majority of us in the US Military who support the war are ignored by the left and the media. As you have probably found, the same applies to our spouses and true supporters.
Instead when deployed we rush to call our families every time the media fabricates a story about IED/VIEDs/Rockets/attacks in our AOs. My then pregnant wife had to listen every night to stories that my area had been hit by something which supposedly killed obscene numbers of us. Luckily, we had email and the ability to call so she could get almost immediate relief.
As my wife said last night: Obama’s statement does not even make sense, let alone sound true!
But then, as an Army wife, she and you have had more of a military education than many.
EDIT:
To all of our leftists reading from a linked in story. I guess the stories from the MILBLOGs and Soldiers who support our actions do not matter, but you circle the wagons for the TNR fiasco and others to blast us.
But do not let that interrupt your fantasies and hatred for all things conservative.
Hey all you screaming ranting “experts” – check out Jake Tapper’s piece. He gets in touch with the Captain who verifies the story. Now of course, I will assume you wills et out to prove the source wasn’t really in Afghanistan, or he voted Democrat or some such slander.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/from-the-fact-3.html
Don’t let the facts get in the way of thje truth guys. Because the truth hurts. The story has been fact checked and Obama was right. The Captain in question was a Lieutenant at the time. I quote:
“Prior to deployment the Captain — then a Lieutenant — took command of a rifle platoon at Fort Drum. When he took command, the platoon had 39 members, but — in ones and twos — 15 members of the platoon were re-assigned to other units. He knows of 10 of those 15 for sure who went to Iraq, and he suspects the other five did as well.”
check out the link yourself. and pull your heads out of your asses:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/from-the-fact-3.html
Wally, Frito, Auster, give it up.
Reality, truth, facts are all alien concepts to this crowd.
This is how it works: Obama (or any Dem says something). “Its a lie!”, shouts the right. The facts are produced. “The media is lying!”, shouts the right. It’ll never end.
But who are ya gonna believe? Me or your lyin eyes….
Some guy told some staffer who told Obama who couldn’t even repeat the story accurately. That’s the reality, the truth, and the facts.
Ah, the drive by trolls. Did not read a thing above did you? Would you like to come with me on my next deployment? Or would the “reality, truth, facts” be too much for you to handle?
Maybe all of us Soldiers who think this officer has issues with his story, as does the ABC “factchecker” who uses a study guide for a weapons reference and no other evidence from the unit’s deployment, are just “evil conservatives”.
Sorry, Obama’s quote was BS and this “fact checking” story is BS, just as it is pointed out in that story’s comments section.
So, now that the Captain confirms everything Obama stated, are you going to correct your post and admit your error?
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/from-the-fact-3.html
I think I will take the word from real soldiers that put their name out there, not some anonumous Captain. As most o f the earlier commentors are in the military and everything that Obama said seems to be false. I can see them using the weapons that they get from captured Taliban, great use and is a great disguise. they do sound different and it is better to not be know that you are out there. And it is against regulations to split up Platoons like this.
Wgo do you believe someone that says their name and is actually in combat or some un-named Captain that the MSM finds. Also look at the Reportes of fake soldiers. TNR has Beachamp and many stringers form Iraq and Palestine are part of the enemy.
I still think it is a crock. The problem is not that what he said isn’t strictly true, it’s the fact that the impression is entirely innaccurate.
1) I challenge you to find a unit that didn’t have shortages during training. And I mean ever. We had shortages when I trained for Bosnia, we had shortages at basic, and we had shortages in my train-up for Afghanistan. Would I have liked every one of my guys to fire at AT4 before I got in country, sure, was it going to happen? Hell now.
2) Humvees are chronically short. I’ve never heard of a unit in history that had everything they requested or wanted. Precious few even made it in theater with what is on the TOW, again, embrace the suck, Shi’ite happens.
3) The unit being split and sent to 2 different theaters, and people being reassigned to different units are 2 entirely seperate animals. While BHO’s comment could have been interpreted either way, at the very least it appears he insinuated they were split and sent.
You all have grown so accustomed to swallowing whole the ceaseless braying of the conservative message machine that you have grown immune to facts.
The Obama campaign produced the guy who went on record folks! Obama didn’t make it up. He didn’t say he spoke personally to the guy. He said he heard from a captain who commanded a platoon.
You all invented a lie that wasn’t told and then refuse to believe it wasn’t a lie . . . . sheesh.
Let’s just face it. Obama is a Romulan sent back in time to destroy Star Fleet Command which as we all know, history shows was created during the John McCain/Michelle Malkin Presidency.
For proof, just take a look at Obama’s ears and compare it to the Vulcan on Voyager.
Great work Kurt!
Really.. In your next sentence:
Logical fallacy anyone?
And the captain did not go on record. Not even for the fact-checker.
So, to use your own words: You all have grown so accustomed to swallowing whole the ceaseless braying of the leftist message machine that you have grown immune to facts.
Several Soldiers and even spouses have responded above with what we believe. But we do not matter to you.
Sorry if that sours your kool-aid.
I REPEAT comment #35 “So, now that the Captain confirms everything Obama stated, are you going to correct your post and admit your error?”
What is his name and where was he at???? Who was his senior officer???? Inquiring minds want to know. Why didn’t object to this before being deployed???
I wonder if he is going to bring his name out into the Public in 24 hours also???? Or is that 24 business hours???
It checks out. The troop diversion point which is more important definitely checked out. You can parse the weapons story anyway you want but it’s not important as the troop diversion to Iraq.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/from-the-fact-3.html
I hope he keeps stepping in it. He needs to be shown for the incompetent he is. mcvain is a stretch to vote for but he will be 100 times better as the POTUS than this liberal lefty clown. All osama/obama will do is attempt to destroy the military in his zealots belief that drawing it down and hobbling it will make our enemies like us. Sorta like what led to the ammo shortage ChrisG mentioned during the klintoons reign of terror. The klintoons and osama/obama really are a xerox copy of each other. And right now this country can’t afford another 4 years of “talking” to enemies whom have repeatedly sworn to destroy us. To bad our politicians can’t be as honest as they are.
Love the drive by trolls who don’t even read the previous comments-just wig out partisan bashing instead. Best so far is Moderate Conservatives though. That was wonderful. We read on ABC that some guy told a staffer who told Obama a story that Obama couldn’t even clearly repeat. Anonymous, 3rd hand source should be enough to cast doubt in an intelligent person’s mind, but not if one is only out to toss out some anti-conservative hate. Nah. For those people, it’s read a talking point at Huffpo, Buzzflash, Bartcop, Truthout, or KOS and then flame away. Why bother opening-one’s mind to possibility that the mighty messianic Obama could be wrong or that his logic flows in direct contrast to comments from real military officers?
Better to believe KOS that someone who has served.
Better to believe a DNC talking point than to bother looking at facts.
Better to rant (drive by post) than to discuss (requires actually reading the previous posts which explain why people doubt Obama’s statement was correct).
I find it interesting that so many on the far left come here and rant about conservatives, or Republicans and make allegations of partisan blindness, then ignore 2 things:
1) the allegations are almost always incorrect
2) they demonstrate their blindness themselves by not reading the discussion-just post and run
Hey Theresa, MSgt (ret), USAF,
While I would defend your right to speak your mind, I think that it’s disgusting and dishonorable for you to equate Osama with Obama. I would think that someone that claims to have served in our Armed Forced would find such a tactic foul, and below them.
Enjoy your day “MSgt (ret), USAF”
These leftist useful idiots are all linking to the same site and not reading the comments ON that article which refute it let alone the comments here!!!
I would say I am amazed at their idiocy, but I am not, just disgusted.
Cecile, I answered you, as did Amy, as have others.
You have your answer and NO, I will NEVER vote for a Democrat in this election and I AM active duty Army.
Have a nice day.
The story appears to check out:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/from-the-fact-3.html
1) According to Tapper @ ABC, the officer states that ammo shortages persisted while deployed in Afghanistan. The parts shortages applied to their MK-19s and .50 cals. The officer told ABC that they used AK-47s and DShK on occasion, since they couldn’t keep their weapons working.
2) Sure, I’ll agree that Humvees are ‘chronically short.’ If, however, this platoon really had to use Toyota pickups to get around, the problem goes far beyond Humvees, don’t you think?
3) He didn’t say that the unit was “split.” He told ABC that soldiers were reassigned, in ones and twos, and that he wound up deploying a platoon at approximately 2/3 strength (24/39). I find this completely believable.
Now, if I may offer a point of my own….unless some of the veterans posting here served in fairly high-level commands, we should keep in mind that situations and environments can be radically different from unit to unit, city to city, etc. I have the utmost respect for your service (I’m a veteran of the volunteer military, though I never saw combat), but serving in Iraq doesn’t mean that you’re an authority on conditions in Afghanistan, or even Mosul vs. Baghdad, unless you served in both locations. Serveral of my friends (and former comrades in the Guard) are Iraq/Afghanistan vets, and even being deployed 50-75 klicks apart makes for radically different experiences.
Anecdote verified by Jake Tapper:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/from-the-fact-3.html
Don’t let the facts get in the way of the truth, indeed. Idiots.