Bookworm did up a great post on the latest MSM attack on the Bush administration and the War on Terror. Last time it was veterans who become criminals which ended badly for the MSM. They definitely had egg on their face from that one.
Now its veterans who become homeless.
From the article:
This is not a new story in America: A young veteran back from war whose struggle to rejoin society has failed, at least for the moment, fighting demons and left homeless.
But it is happening to a new generation. As the war in Afghanistan plods on in its seventh year, and the war in Iraq in its fifth, a new cadre of homeless veterans is taking shape.
And with it come the questions: How is it that a nation that became so familiar with the archetypal homeless, combat-addled Vietnam veteran is now watching as more homeless veterans turn up from new wars?
What lessons have we not learned? Who is failing these people? Or is homelessness an unavoidable byproduct of war, of young men and women who devote themselves to serving their country and then see things no man or woman should?
~~~ For now, about 1,500 veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan have been identified by the Department of Veterans Affairs. About 400 of them have taken part in VA programs designed to target homelessness.
The 1,500 are a small, young segment of an estimated 336,000 veterans in the United States who were homeless at some point in 2006, the most recent year for which statistics are available, according to the National Alliance to End Homelessness.
If my math is right (and there no guarantee it is, jarhead remember) those numbers work out to be .004% of the veteran homeless were from the Iraq/Afghanistan war.
So .004% is worthy of a 1,947 word article from the AP? This article from the NYT’s in November puts the number of Iraq/Afghanistan homeless veterans at 400. In two months it went up 1,100. That’s some jump.
And how about that 336,000 number. HUD reports that in 2006 the number of homeless in the United States was
The number of chronically homeless people dropped from 175,900 in 2005 to 155,600 in 2006, according to data collected from about 3,900 cities and counties.
Anyone see a problem there? This article from HUD puts it at 744,000. Pretty big discrepancy there. It even says 41% of that number are whole families which means only 416,000 are singles. I’m thinking that most of these veteran homeless are not taking their whole family with them so the majority of single homeless are veterans?
Come on…..
What these reports do say is its difficult to gauge how many homeless there are because they, well, live on the street. No address or phone number to contact them at.
It really is sad that some end up homeless but does anyone know if the percentage of service members becoming homeless is greater then the rest of society? I’m sure every segment of society is represented in that homeless number but the constant meme’ from the left about wars turning men into homeless is not grounded in reality unless they count the cardboard signs reading “veteran, please give me money” on the side of the freeway. Those guys wouldn’t be putting “veteran” on there to pull your heartstrings would they?
Oh, I forgot, we’re talking about the gullible left here.
Every article I have read researching this post points out how difficult it is to get a accurate count of homeless, so the numbers and theme of this latest MSM hitpiece is basically hogwash. Yes, Erin McClam, we all know war sucks. But we also know that war is necessary. Iraq was necessary, Afghanistan was necessary. There was no draft, men and women joined up voluntarily to serve this country and 1,500 of the over one million who have served couldn’t take it and became bums. But maybe Erin should of written a story about how well grounded our veterans are. If only 1,500 of the million veterans became homeless, that actually shows how well they do, not the other way around.
But we’re talking about the MSM here. If Hillary was in the White House you could bet your ass the meme of that article would be spun 180 degrees.
Oh, and btw, Bush just signed a law giving 1.5 billion of our tax dollars to helping the homeless. Funny how I didn’t see Erin McClam write about that.
That evil Bushitler!
UPDATE
This is James Taranto talking about the earlier Times article that labeled our veterans as criminals:
See author page
Why not press the edit button instead of posting the same comment twice?
Just because the thngs you want covered are under reported does not make an indvidual article One Sided.
It sounds exactly like you want to deny the existance of the bad news. That won’t get support behind the cause.
Show the good News. If they won’t report it YOU report it.
Some of your stories have been Fantastic. The MSM stories that are lies “Jamal Husein” & “NYT Murder Trash” were spot on.
I read them here first.
The photos of our troops and the Christians and Muslims working togeather were top notch. I forwarded them to my friends.
But trashing an article that has left leanings doesn’t score points. It simply starts you on the slide towards the gutter that half the MSM is allready in.
Print Facts, Print Truth, Print the Good News.
Sorry. Was not a Rgistered user so couldn’t Edit.
Random
I DO!
I report on the good news from Iraq all the time, for years.
AND I report on the biased reporting, as I am doing with this horrible article.
But I am not the MSM, and I get 2-4k in visitors a day compared to the hundreds of thousands to millions of readers and viewers the MSM get.
If there is obvious bias, I will call them on it. This article was most obviously biased and just because they sprinkle it with true facts doesn’t make it any less so.
I could care less what points I score. I care about shining the light on biased MSM reporting when it comes to our President, and the War on Terror.
“But trashing an article that has left leanings doesn’t score points. It simply starts you on the slide towards the gutter that half the MSM is allready in.”
Read: How dare you criticize media bias and shine a light on it, that makes you no better than them. Shut up and don’t talk about how the media is. Just bend over and take it.
Sorry but that’s not how the world has to work anymore. The internet has allowed people the voice to call the msm on their BS. And they really hate it, so it needs to be kept up.
The biggest hole in the bullshit statistics is that the data coming from homeless shelters, etc., is complete crap. The claim to be a vet is part of the standard con of these junkies, drunks & mentally ill clowns, and shelters don’t even make an effort to verify this.
Ask some of these panhandlers who claim to be a “homeless vet” something simple, like “What was your MOS?” The vast majority go blank, not even knowing the term, and the rest don’t get past another question or two.
The few REAL homeless vets were in all likelihood bounced from the service, probably before they even completed Basic.
Random’s offering the most consistent & unbiased argument in my humble, & I’m sorry he hasn’t a blog of his own…
150, 1500, or 15,000, there shouldn’t be any homeless vets, and we citizens and the government that employed them, and that represents all of us should do everything possible to get the number of homeless vets as close to zero as possible.
I’m pretty sure that there are few–if any–homeless vets worried about whether the news stories about them are politically biased…
I agree MSgt, being a cop in South-Central LA I deal with the homeless daily and almost all of them try to pull the heartstrings for money from folks by throwing in the “I’m a vet” crap. Ask them the MOS question and they turn away.
Gullible and naive people keep these homeless in their addiction cycle, and they see nothing wrong with it.
The stats I use (390,000 Homeless Vets) is NOT from the a soup kitchen group. It’s from the the Depatment of Veteran Affairs.
The stats of 1500 in the Article are those reported by the VA also.
If you want to try to claim that the VA can’t recognize a Vet then I think that REALLY shows how far you are willing to go to deny the problem.
“Support the Troops. But only if they don’t make my side look bad, otherwise cover it up.”
Is that the new Motto?
Thanks for the comments Repsac, If I had the time I would.
Random
“The remaining unconfirmed 125,812 probable Vietnam War service personnel do not account for the 9 million plus Americans, as of 1995, who falsely and fraudulently claimed to be in-country/in-waters Vietnam veterans. As of 2005 the number of Vietnam War claimants has grown. A repeat of The American War Library”‘”s 1995 national survey in 2005 reported that a greater number — 11,104,005 — (a 71.68% increase over ten years) of Americans since 1995 claimed to have served in Vietnam (In-Country/In-Waters), and 2,591,083 Americans claimed to have served aboard a U.S. naval vessel in Vietnamese waters (between 1955 and 1975). The total number of Americans claiming in 2005 to be eligible or possessing authorization of the United States Vietnam War Service Medal (Reference #7) is 13,695,088.
Article
Read the entire article and see if you believe the difference in numbers between those who were there and those who claim they were there.
I don’t have a source link, but in regards to Vietnam vets,
Found this at Mudville Gazette, regarding popular perception driven by Hollywood and the media:
More:
Wasn’t there a recent media report in the past month or two, regarding the suicide rate in our military?
The very first line of your article says
“85% of Vietnam Veterans made successful transitions to civilian life.”
That suggests 15% did not make a successful transitions to civilian life.
But hey, Who gives a @#$% about 15% of 2.7 million American Service personnel, they’re an embarrassment.
“Support the Troops. But only if they don’t make my side look bad, otherwise cover it up.”
Just because SOME people lie about being a vet does not mean we should ignore those who are Vets.
Random
Your retarded.
Thank you for the Ad- Hominem attack instead of rebutting my points. It generally signifies that what I said is correct.
Random
Quit crying. I’ve answered everything you’ve had to say above in dozens of posts. You refuse to listen, instead you continue pining away for a socialist paradise where everyone is happy.
Like I said, just retarded
Ok, I only stepped into the middle of this, and didn’t see the flow of the conversation.
Certainly, any vet who isn’t supported is one vet too many. But my point goes back to Curt’s original point, in how the anti-war media and Hollywood likes to perpetuate this myth about veterans as broken losers.
Anyone recognize the name Tom Harkins? He is currently employed as a US Democrat Senator. He is also a veteran. He is not a Vietnam Veteran. He is simply another American leftist who has tried to promote himself as as Vietnam Vet
“Harkin has gotten elected and re-elected, in part, by claiming to have served in Vietnam. During his service in the Navy, Harkin told Washington Post reporter David Broder, “One year was in Vietnam. I was flying F-4s and F-8s on combat air patrols and photo-reconnaissance support missions. I did no bombing.” But as the late Senator Barry Goldwater (R.-Arizona) was first to notice, nothing in Harkin’s military service file showed that he ever served in Vietnam. Challenged by Goldwater, an Air Force General, to explain why he was awarded neither the Vietnam Service Medal nor the Vietnam Campaign medal (decorations given to everyone who served in the Southeast Asian theater), Harkin changed his story. Harkin claimed that he instead had flown combat sorties over Cuba during the 1960s.”
The facts of Sen Harkin, and most other Vietnam War veterans, or imposters can be easily checked because they have records readily accessible.
“This was another Harkin lie. Harkin actually served as a ferry pilot who flew aircraft in need of repair between the Philippines and his base in Atsugi, Japan. Harkin at last acknowledged that he never flew air patrols in Vietnam. He began describing himself in speeches as “a Vietnam era veteran.”
The people of Iowa who have elected this man
over and over have known for years exactly what they have representing them in the US Senate. Do they care? Apparently not.
The real problem when discussing the homeless as a Veteran and what his/her service may have done to cause their homeless status is that it is very difficult to piece together the true story, because the individual has no records of their own and the
records authorities may have are very difficult to piece together in many cases. No one that I know is arguing that the individuals don’t need help. In many cases, they simply will not accept it. In many cases, they may be entitled to help, but not from the agencies they are claiming won’t help them.
Don’t even try to figure out Random, he has gone in a million directions from the whole point of the post, but mainly he has defended the bias this MSM piece so obviously has because the homeless tugs on his heartstrings.
You did not rebut my point that according to Wordsmiths own post as many as 15% of Vietnam Vets did not make a successful transitions to civilian life.
That’s as many as 400,000 American Service personnel.
You didn’t respond to a single word of that post except for to call me names.
In the previous posts you have dodged and weaved and avoid many of my points, choosing to jump from the subject to trying to paint me as a Bleeding Heart Liberal Lover.
Try staying with Facts, Instead of Calling me names.
Random
From Pagar’s last comment,
Which goes back to my blockquote, earlier:
I’ve given you plenty of facts and even reprinted the whole article highlighting the bias. You ignore and ignore and ignore and then demand more facts, a tactic used by many lefties that visit this site.
Disgusting.
Rofl….9.5 million claim to have served in Vietnam and there is really only a million.
Classic!
But if they’re homeless lets all hand them over our paycheck to make Random happy.
Wordsmith, sorry for jumping on you.
Veterans are NOT broken losers. Most come back and lead perfectly fine lives. My guess is that your average vet does better then your average civilian (Mind you I will admit that’s just a guess). However a certain portion of vets do comeback from combat with problems. There problems are related to a war we asked them to fight, and no matter how just the war they disserve to be given reasonable help.
We should not over play this as the media “Dear Hunter ” hype of the 70s did, but we should not deny it either. We need to tell the truth.
Curt started his criticism of the article by trying to poke holes in the statistics and showing they were contradictory. I showed that they were not. After that we were off to the races.
I personally criticized the article numerous times for pieces of the language used. It is Anti War biased in it’s language, However the underlying point of the article, “Vets from Iraq may have problems with homelessness similar to Vietnam vets and we had better be ready.” is a Valid one.
Random
Yup, all 1500 out of a million of em.
Curt. Show me WHERE I made those claims.
I have Claimed 2.7 million American Service personnel served in Vietnam. I have claimed that at most 15% of them, at some point in the last 30 years have been homeless.
Now you are trying to imply that I want to hand out checks to 9 million. Intellectual dishonesty dose not become you.
Random
Nope, I imply that your a bleeding heart idiot who can’t see bias when it smacks them in the head because you feel sorry for the homeless.
I have responded a number of times that the language in the Article had a clear Anti War Bias. I just choose not to ignore are homeless Vets.
Quotes I have made.
Post 17
“From a quick view of the article, the language is biased with terms like, “As the war in Afghanistan plods on in its seventh year…” ”
Post 49 “Slipping in a few lines that show his anti war bias,”
Post 75. “It is Anti War biased in it’s language”
Random
After re-reading some of the comments, I’d like to comment further since I spent a number of yrs in the Pentagon dealing with Congress and the otherr Federal agencies. I’ve also had my medical care thru the VA for many years, primarily since in my area (Virginia) I think their care is better than active Army hospitals.
I take the VA’s estimate of the number of homeless vets with a giant grain of salt. Firstly, what the hell is “homeless for (at least) one night?” You got drunk and the wife threw you out? The cops removed you after you hit your wife or kids? You got out of jail or rehab and have no place to go? After all, vets — like everyone else — have their share of bad apples (though I’d be amazed if it were anywhere near the overall average of the population). At any rate, that definition of “homeless” seems a bit silly and contrived, to say the least. I had a pipe burst last year and we had to stay in a motel for a day; was I homeless?
Secondly (and here I speak from vast experience with the ever-present VA questionnaires and polls), let us keep in mind that behind every statistic a government agency plays with there is always a budget consideration. Given two different statistics, both reasonably defensible, the tendency is to pick the one that will put you in the best possible position to defend your budget requests when you compete against the other Agencies. They all do it. And their estimate might easily be based on data from a place as obvously full of bullshit as the “National Alliance to End Homelessness” — a group that clearly has a budget and fundraising ax to grind, and whose data I wouldn’t trust as far as I could throw their entire Executive Committee.
Vets sometimes wind up being drunks, junkies and loonies sometime (perhaps many years) after they leave the service — though, I’m convinced, at a rate far less than the population as a whole. Whether their problems have anything to do with combat (since few soldiers, sailors or airmen ever see combat anyway) is highly arguable. But budget pimps can skew numbers that fools will swallow without thinking.
After 20+ years active duty, much of it in the belly of the Federal Beast, and another 20+ years of watching the political scene, I know crap when I smell it. And this bullshit about homeless veterans smells just as bad as that nonsense about rampaging hordes of murderous veterans stalking our neighborhoods.
I call it like I smell it.
Excellent post, MSgt White . Your service and your post should be an inspiration to all. Thanks
Of course agencies will skew the numbers. If you will notice I used numbers comparing non Vets who were homeless for one night to Vets who were. If the Vets are being counted who were simply kicked out of home for one night for being drunk, then so were the Non Vets. If there is a statistical difference between the two numbers it suggests a problem.
Is the math perfect. Of course not. My QUICK research would not make it through many college courses, (Sadly it would make it through some, as did my spelling.), But we don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.
We look at the studies, and see if their are problems. We do other studies. We research. Then we make our best decisions based on the data.
You say you can smell it being wrong. Other will say they smell it being right. What you smell should lead you to find FACTS that get to the truth. Not to declare that your nose KNOWS the truth.
The only other option is we use no data at all and just throw darts, make guesses and scream “NO I KNOW I’M RIGHT BECAUSE I KNOW I’M RIGHT”
Random
He said he smelled it wrong based on his experience in the military for 20+ years. Myself, I base it on the 10+ years of dealing with the homeless on the street.
Your good at numbers, thats for sure. But numbers isn’t the whole story.
No but numbers can be examined, Smells can’t.
If I said I knew Homeless Vets were a problem because “I could Smell It”, I would be laughed out of this discusion. What something smells like should lead you to the truth. It should not be considered the truth.
Random
Yup, and what led us to that smell was real world experience which lead us to the conclusion that the truth you and the MSM are trying to shove down our throats is bullshit.
“Real World Experience” is nice, But it is quite often wrong. Your credentials on the subject of Vet Homelessness are very limited and are from one particular area with its own bias.
Your knowledge on the specifics, you have thus far shown, is lacking for you to be considered an “Expert” on the subject. Many of the numbers and facts you have used so far have been shown to be incorrect or misrepresented.
Finally we can’t examine your “Real World Experience”. I can round up those with “Real World Experience” who say otherwise.
From the Article
““We’re beginning to see, across the country, the first trickle of this generation of warriors in homeless shelters,” said Phil Landis, chairman of Veterans Village of San Diego, a residence and counseling center. “But we anticipate that it’s going to be a tsunami.””
It’s a nice quote, from someone who also would claim to have “Real World Experience”. But I would give it little real consideration, especially if there was data contradicting it.
I apply the same standard to you as should anyone who wants the truth.
Random
And numbers are nice but they prove nothing. Especially when its all fluid from one organization to the next.
Your wrong again. I’ve proven the bias in the article over and over and you just ignore it because your heart is bleeding for the poor homeless.
I said “Many of the numbers and facts you have used so far have been shown to be incorrect or misrepresented.”
You said “Your wrong again”
Read post 8, Now Read Post 9. Are you saying you did not use the numbers for youths (Those 15-19) instead of Children (0-17) when trying to compare non vets to vets?
Are you saying your calculations in post 8 are Correct?
Are you saying in your very first post, where YOU took issues with their numbers, that you didn’t use incorrect numbers confusing CHRONICLY homeless with homeless?
Was it not you who tried to imply that this data in the article might be wrong
“This article from the NYT’s in November puts the number of Iraq/Afghanistan homeless veterans at 400. In two months it went up 1,100. That’s some jump.”
when the reality is that someone with REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE with the homeless knows more of them report to the shelters in the winter and thus that jump is to be expected?
Random
Can you not read?
Which I did. In fact I reprinted the whole article for you and pointed out all the bias. But you live and die by the numbers….
I said it before, and I will say it again….retarded.
But Im done with you. You continually say the same thing over and over again and make love to the numbers while disregarding every other facet of the argument.
Go bring your idiocy to another blog.
Thank you, Curt.
The VA puts it at about 195,000
http://www1.va.gov/homeless/page.cfm?pg=17
Of course our resident pimp for the homeless hordes doesn’t mind confusing “homeless for one night” with “homeless” when it’s statistically convenient, though grossly innacurate.
If the VA has ever claimed they found 390,000 homeless vets, I can’t find it on Google. Didn’t think I would, because the number is far too stupid for a rational person to believe anyhow.
If the VA did identify 390,000 “homeless vets” yet could only find 1500 from Iraq/Afghan, it must mean that the other 375,000 are predominantly Vietnam Vets, most of whom would be in their 60s & 70s. Interesting, considering the youthful crowd I see hanging around the mall and in our local drug & booze den … oops, I meant homeless shelter.
This whole phony issue reminds me of the idiocy that got the handicapped access laws passed. For years every sob-sister group pimped the “43 million handicapped” figure with almost no one — certainly no one in the MSM — pointing out how full of shit they were.
I shouldn’t complain, since it got me great parking privileges even though I seldom have to use my wheelchair … but why didn’t the rest of you guys figure out that the only way you can get to that 43 million figure is by counting everyone who wears glasses …..?? I mean, that’s about one out of every six people in the U.S., including infants.
One suspects this current crock has more to do with raising money for the National Whatchamacallit to Eliminate Homelessness, whose social-worker executives — I guarantee it — are paid well into six figures for their alleged contributions to society.
Bullshit.
Article
10 Highly Paid CEO’s at Low-Rated Charities
For charities to be successful, they need talented, experienced leaders. Those leaders command significant salaries. But CEO’s who command high salaries should also get the most out of the organizations they lead. The leaders of these 10 organizations are taking high salaries at the expense of spending dollars on the charity’s programs. Despite receiving more than $250,000 in annual pay, these CEO’s run organizations that devote less than 60% of their budgets to their programs and services. That means that at least 40% of your dollars are going to such costs as fundraising and administration, including the salary of the CEO.
Rank Charity Salary
1 Youth Development Fund $363,100
2 The Rodale Institute $336,417
3 National Association for the Advancement of Colored People $320,975
4 WTVS Detroit Public Television $310,631
5 Council of Independent Colleges $310,000
6 St. Bernard’s School $307,500
7 The Phillips Collection $301,118
8 The Lovett School $279,200
9 Institute of the Americas $276,500
10 New York Academy of Sciences $253,000
Re: “If the VA has ever claimed they found 390,000 homeless vets, I can’t find it on Google.”
That’s because they didn’t. It was 19,000.
I typed too fast It holdha been 195,000
I’m taking a break! I is obvious I cannot type at all today 🙁
“The VA puts it at about 195,000”
Well, sort of. But if you read the fine print (Appendix 5) the source of the data is pure bullshit: local state & county homeless weenies, local nonprofit groups , and surveys of the homeless (!). However, when you get to the part where it says how many of these actually availed themselves of VA money or care, the local numbers drop from thousands to … DOZENS! Apparently it’s one thing to spin your combat fairy tale to the local sob-sisters, but a bit different when you know your B.S. won’t fly.
Frankly, VA shouldn’t be paying for drug or alcohol treatment anyhow. That’s a self-inflicted “wound,” so screw ’em.
The only legitimate numbers in this mess are the ones that delineate the number of homeless veterans the VA has on its rolls — either treating them or paying disabiliity. The rest is fluff for suckers.
And your BETTER source of information is….?
“And your BETTER source of information is….?”
Like I indicated before — the only numbers that aren’t completely meaningless are the homeless that have proved they were veterans. Despite years of outreach from VA, and some definite hard pimping from the local governments (who’d love to get some of these guys transferred to or subsidized by VA), the number who have been checked out as legitimate veterans is remarkably low.
The substance abusers in the homeless system — a high percentage of the group — can get lots of freebies, often including a disability check, from VA just by asking for it (and actually being a vet), one natually asks, “When’s the last time a drunk or junkie has passed up free care, free Methadone, or a free monthly check?”
Calling that worthless raw data “information” is being exceedingly liberal in the terminology department.
“That means that at least 40% of your dollars are going to such costs as fundraising and administration, including the salary of the CEO”
And generally the numbers are actually a lot worse than that, since most of the “charity” industries have learned all the bookkeeping tricks, like hiding salaries in subcontracted “programs” who probably aren’t even tax-exempt and whose books are definitely not transparent. The rackets I’m most familiar with, the larger so-called animal rescue groups (PETA, and anything with “Humane” in its name) learned to cook their books and look legitimate this way years ago, but they learned it from the other corporate charities whose associates & ex-employees set up little companies in which people rotate in and out of, just like the government’s infamous “revolving door.”
Well stated info, Msgt White, Thank you.
During my service years, I observed several members who were removed from the service for drug use. None of them were Vietnam Vets. IMO, they were, in every case, liberals who simply had little or no moral upbring and believed that they were entitled to do as they pleased. If any of them are included in the homeless figures today, I’m sure they have invented tall tales to explain how they were abused and their lives destroyed by their military service. Their lives were ruined by the drug use, not their service.
It is interesting to read the comments here. In 2004 the VA reduced their homeless veterans number from 313,000 to 194,000 (or a cut of 121,000 homeless veterans). The numbers of homeless veterans is much higher at the local levels. The fact that media is covering just the 1400 from OEF/OIF disregards that fact that there are other eras of service members becoming homeless still as well. The fact of the matter was that if the VA had not ignored the issues going back to Vietnam era, the current level of crisis would not be as high as it is today. At the local level there is a lot of request for services coming FROM THE VA! Unfortunately, local and non profits cannot handle the waves being referred to by the VA. The VA ignored this issue for a long time, and now it is just another issue that is getting them hammered. The issue of drug use is overplayed, though after leaving veterans in the streets for numerous years, mental illnes and substance abuse is a common side effect of homelessness. Now a lot of these veterans are working for minimal wage jobs. Minimum Wage is not enough to secure a foot hold in society today. To add to the homelessness you have inadequate TBI screenings now, PTSD, and other factors that lead to homelessness amongst the veteran poplulation.
Just a few thoughts.