Le·gal In·sur·rec·tion:
Today saw the State move through another seven of their witnesses, although as has seemed the pattern this first week of trial, the defense more so than the State appeared to benefit from their testimony.
Among these two were most notable–Jonathan Good, who was a resident of Twin Lakes who observed much of that night’s events, and Linzee Folgate, George Zimmerman’s physician assistant who treated his wounds the following day. With both of these witnesses the State took a horrible beating in the course of cross-examination–worse so with Good but still badly with Folgate–although in fairness the State did not fare particularly well with any of today’s witnesses.
Jonathan Good, Twin Lakes Resident, Substantively Confirms Defense’s Theory of the Case
The testimony of State witness Jonathan Good was remarkably, almost shockingly, destructive to the State’s theory of the case, however. So damaging was this testimony that between myself and Professor Jacobson led to three separate blog posts–and it warranted every one. Given the coverage we’ve already posted up, I won’t dwell on it here, but you need to read the three posts well to fully understand how effectively the defense co-opted yet another State witness to the benefit of their theory of the case and their client:
#Zimmerman Trial Day 5: Good: “Dark clothing was on top, white or red clothing was on bottom.” http://t.co/Aarq3FMHVA
— Andrew Branca, LOSD (@LawSelfDefense) June 28, 2013
#Zimmerman Trial Day 5: Good: “Person on top had straddling position on person on bottom.” http://t.co/Aarq3FMHVA
— Andrew Branca, LOSD (@LawSelfDefense) June 28, 2013
#Zimmerman Trial Day 5: Good believes it was person on bottom saying help, but not 100% sure. http://t.co/Aarq3FMHVA
— Andrew Branca, LOSD (@LawSelfDefense) June 28, 2013
#Zimmerman Trial Day 5: Good: “That’s when they moved up to sidewalk, still in straddle position, called 911.” http://t.co/Aarq3FMHVA
— Andrew Branca, LOSD (@LawSelfDefense) June 28, 2013
#Zimmerman Trial Day 5: Good’s a great witness, composed, coherent, direct answers, corrects BDLR’s numerous errors http://t.co/Aarq3FMHVA
— Andrew Branca, LOSD (@LawSelfDefense) June 28, 2013
#Zimmerman Trial Day 5: Good’s testimony on cross is TOTALLY as recounted b y Zimmerman http://t.co/Aarq3FMHVA
— Andrew Branca, LOSD (@LawSelfDefense) June 28, 2013
#Zimmerman Trial Day 5: Have you ever heard the sound of a skull being pounded into concrete? http://t.co/Aarq3FMHVA
— Andrew Branca, LOSD (@LawSelfDefense) June 28, 2013
#Zimmerman Trial Day 5: Have you ever heard the sound of a fist driving into a face or nose or head? http://t.co/Aarq3FMHVA
— Andrew Branca, LOSD (@LawSelfDefense) June 28, 2013
#Zimmerman Trial Day 5: Good used phrases “MMA-style” and “Ground-and-Pound” that first night to Investigator Serino http://t.co/Aarq3FMHVA
— Andrew Branca, LOSD (@LawSelfDefense) June 28, 2013
#Zimmerman Trial Day 5: Recounted that night that guy on bottom in red was getting beat up http://t.co/Aarq3FMHVA
— Andrew Branca, LOSD (@LawSelfDefense) June 28, 2013
Zimmerman trial blockbuster — Eyewitness says Trayvon on top punching Mixed Martial Arts style
Has State Opened Door to Defense Introducing Martin Fight Video?
Linzee Folgate, Physician’s Assistant–Whatever Zimmerman Did to Stop Attack Saved His Life
The other remarkable State witness was Linzee Folgate, the physician’s assistant who closed out the day. On direct, Mr. de la Rionda used her as a foil to create the impression that Zimmerman’s injuries were really quite inconsequential, having her talk mostly about clinical symptoms from which Zimmerman was not suffering at the time she examined him.
#Zimmerman Trial Day 5: BDLR suggesting that GZ’s bumps might have pre-existed, not the result of trauma–ha, ha http://t.co/Aarq3FMHVA
— Andrew Branca, LOSD (@LawSelfDefense) June 28, 2013
#Zimmerman Trial Day 5: “How does a scalp hematoma occur?” “Trauma” “Like smashing head against something?” “Yes” http://t.co/Aarq3FMHVA
— Andrew Branca, LOSD (@LawSelfDefense) June 28, 2013
This line of questioning seems remarkably foolish, for two reasons. First, there is no requirement under the law of self defense in Florida, or any other state, that a person must suffer so much as a scratch before they can use force, and even deadly force, in self-defense. All that the law of self-defense requires is that you have been REASONABLY IN FEAR of imminent death or grave bodily harm–it does NOT require that you ACTUALLY EXPERIENCE death or grave bodily harm before you can act in self-defense.
Second, however much effort Mr. de la Rionda might invest in arguing that Zimmerman suffered no meaningful injury, the numerous bloody photos of his injuries that night easily belie any such claims.
#Zimmerman Trial Day 5: O’Mara just pounding home theme of GZ as a beating victim. http://t.co/Aarq3FMHVA
— Andrew Branca, LOSD (@LawSelfDefense) June 28, 2013
Indeed, on cross-examination O’Mara essentially ran out bloody photo after bloody-photo, asking in detail how each abrasion, contusion, laceration could have been caused–by traumatic impact, you say? Like if a fist was driven into his face? Or like if his head was pounded onto a concrete sidewalk by his attacker? Frankly, the whole line of questioning was an enormous gift to O’Mara, and as he walked back to the defense table after cross he had a broad smile on his face.
#Zimmerman Trial Day 5: Folgate: “Head trauma can result in bleeding into brain, skull fracture” http://t.co/Aarq3FMHVA
— Andrew Branca, LOSD (@LawSelfDefense) June 28, 2013
He also questioned Folgate on some of ZImmerman’s more general health parameters. Blood pressure? Too high. Pulse rate? Too high. BMI? He’s clinically obese. All these facts belied de la Rionda’s attempts to create the impression that Zimmerman was some kind of lean, mean, MMA-fighting machine with his MMA gym membership.
O’Mara’s biggest home run with Folgate came with his final question, however: “Medically speaking, would you say that whatever he did to stop the attack allowed him to survive it?” Folgate: “It could have, yes.” Boom.
#Zimmerman Trial Day 5: Folgate: “Head trauma can result in bleeding into brain, skull fracture” http://t.co/Aarq3FMHVA
— Andrew Branca, LOSD (@LawSelfDefense) June 28, 2013
Hundreds threaten to riot and/or murder over Zimmerman trial
See some of their tweets:
http://topconservativenews.com/2013/06/hundreds-threaten-to-riot-andor-murder-over-zimmerman-trial/
Just today the prosecution joined the defense in stating that race had nothing to do with what happened the night Trayvon Martin was shot by George Zimmerman.
They are TRYING to avert race riots.
But will they succeed IF the prosecution loses its case?
Maybe we should revisit the words of Haley Barbour, Gov. of Miss. after Katrina about looters:
“There was a small, small number of looters’ in Mississippi. The reason, I think, was because I said people could shoot looters. I think it was a real deterrent.”
Y’know, I can’t help but wonder if both sides didn’t have a reason for seating an all-female jury?
The prosecution in the belief that threats of violence against them would sway their vote?
The defense in the belief that the evidence was too strong for a conviction in any circumstances?
Has anybody let the jurors know about the threats? If so, who?
Personally, I think that the threats will just piss them off…
The thing is, Zimmerman’s irresponsible actions provoked an attack. He was an armed civilian playing cop, having absolutely no official authority, pursuing and then confronting an unarmed, understandably alarmed individual he didn’t know, based on nothing more than the young man’s appearance and his own anger and paranoid thinking.
Murder? Maybe not. But at least manslaughter and criminal negligence. Zimmerman is a poster boy for why certain personality types probably ought not be carrying a handgun, and why they certainly shouldn’t be given the moronic encouragement of stand-your-ground laws. Had Zimmerman not been emboldened by his concealed firearm, a young man returning from a trip to buy a soft drink and package of candy wouldn’t have wound up lying dead on the sidewalk.
@Greg: Is there anything remotely good for the people that you are for. You show a really bad case of judgement and common sense on all most everything you post.
the long cry itself for help determine his unbearable pain,the call from a man in agony,
it come from not his voice, but from his guts sending the death warning.
@jainphx, #4:
From my own perspective, things often appear to be quite the reverse. I seem to recall a lot of people immediately taking Zimmerman’s side, long before many of the facts were known. Some people have never questioned his version of events, and thought it objectionable that he would even be charged.
Linzee Folgate, the physician’s assistant, gave testimony which crystalized some things in my mind about the testimony of Trayvon’s ”girlfriend” from the other two days.
She said George Zimmerman could easily have thought he would continue to take more and more of the beating he was being given – unless he took action to stop Trayvon.
So, here’s what Rachel Jeantel said the other day:
1. she felt ”guilty” about telling Trayvon’s mom about her last conversations with him.
2. she couldn’t even face Trayvon’s mom at the ”wakening.” (the wake)
3. she paused and thought long and hard about whether or not Trayvon referred to other whites as ”creepy-assed crackers,” then admitted he did call whites ”crackers,” just not always ”creepy-assed crackers.”
4. when the phone went dead she was sure it was just Trayvon going to be in a fight…..no big deal….he had been in fights many times before.
So, had she and Trayvon been talking about beating up the ”cracker?”
Had she even egged Trayvon into it?
Otherwise, why so ”guilty” feeling about being the last one to talk to him?
This is a female who spent HOURS on the phone daily with Trayvon, yet she paused a LONG time before answering about his racism against whites.
Had she not felt that all blacks are immune from charges of racism, she might have answered less honestly about calling whites ”crackers.”
~~~~~
~~~~~
I recall the one time I was ”mugged.”
Was it MY FAULT?
After all, I was coming home alone after 11 at night.
I put myself in that situation.
So, when I fought off my assailant and then trapped him inside my garage until police got there, maybe I should have been arrested for ”false imprisonment.”
Under Greg’s ”logic,” my attacker was simply doing what came naturally….I was the bad guy!
@Nan G:
Wait, you believe if an armed individual stalks you while you’re walking down the street and, during the subsequent altercation, shoots and kills you, this is a case of ‘self defense’? Wow. I didn’t realize we lived in a country where unarmed teenagers walking down the street could be murdered with impunity. But I haven’t kept up on this case very much. What did Trayvon look like, by the way?
You and greg see
and interpret being MUGGED or being cold-cocked and fighting BACK as attacking one who was merely walking down the street ?
See, the police in both Florida and LB, CA., saw it completely differently from you and greg.
THEY agreed with me and George.
They could SEE the damage on our faces.
I can only wonder admiringly at your blissful ignorance of the Zimmeran/Martin case.
You really should get over to Legal Insurrection http://legalinsurrection.com/ and catch up.
See the days’ coverage as live-blogged from in the courtroom as well as:
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/saturday-night-card-game-would-zimmerman-case-have-been-filed-if-creepy-ass-cracker-comment-known/
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-trial-open-comment-forum-weekend-wrap-up/
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/meet-the-zimmerman-trial-jurors/
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-trial-day-one-analysis-of-opening-statements/
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-trial-day-2-analysis-of-states-witnesses/
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-update-exclusive-witnesses-tm-on-ground-when-shot-gz-on-top-in-fight/
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-trial-day-analysis-and-video-of-states-witnesses/
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-trial-day-analysis-and-video-of-states-witnesses/
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-trial-day-end-of-day-analysis-video-of-states-witnesses/
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-trial-blockbuster-eyewitness-says-trayvon-on-top-punching-mixed-martial-arts-style/
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-trial-blockbuster-transcript-eyewitness-good-black-guy-in-black-hoodie-on-top-punching-down-mixed-martial-arts-style/
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/has-state-opened-door-to-defense-introducing-martin-fight-video/
And the thread we are on is based on this one:
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-trial-day-5-analysis-video-states-own-witnesses-undercut-theory-of-guilt/
HUH????
ALL the in the courtroom links are within the link below for you to catch up on REALITY.
You are blissfully and probably willfully ignorant of the facts in the Zimmerman case.
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-trial-open-comment-forum-weekend-wrap-up/
And, once an ”altercation” starts you can defend yourself even with deadly force* as the last witness for the PROSECUTION pointed out: Zimmerman was justifiably in fear that his beating would continue until he was killed….
* There is no requirement under the law of self defense in Florida, or any other state, that a person must suffer so much as a scratch before they can use force, and even deadly force, in self-defense. All that the law of self-defense requires is that you have been REASONABLY IN FEAR of imminent death or grave bodily harm–it does NOT require that you ACTUALLY EXPERIENCE death or grave bodily harm before you can act in self-defense.
@Tom:
Here is the kicker NO ONE knows what trayvon was up to, and no one will. I bet she knows, but won’t ever tell except maybe if she is threatened with jailtime. His mountain dew and skittles are ingredients for some type of drug concoction ( who knew? I learn everyday). If there is a man pink, black or green walking around my neighborhood (and remember it was a gated community) or house you would think I would call 911. Unfortunately I might not. There was a suspicious man in my neighborhood, actually he was dumping trash in a construction dumpster right next to my house. I confronted him. I got right in his face. I really do not like confrontation however I will not back down from confrontation. Of course looking back, he could have had a weapon. If there had been a ‘tussle’ it could have angered obama, just like this current incident because the man was mid-eastern and that could have caused a circus just like it has now.
If I had a CCWP and was on the neighborhood watch and someone was pounding me, I would have done the same. Trayvon was not the innocent 12 year old boy the media and the court is trying to prove. He was an angry teenager that got into a lot of fights he provoked and didn’t like white people. To Trayvon, Zimmerman was a white person.
I truly believe as this happened before the election obama shot off his mouth before learning the incident was between a black man and a brown man, not white on black. obama was just trying to stir up his low information voter base so they would be outraged and be sure to vote one or more times. – of course this is my opinion but based on what obama continually does to create rifts between the races, this is what I truly believe.
Nan G
and the youths 6 of them who beat up the 80 year old veteran and left him for dead in the woods they said for Trayvon they kicked him so bad that happen in COLORADO THE OLD MAN WAS YELLING HIS INNOCENCE, WHILE THE OLDER GUY IN CHARGE SAID KILL HIM,
WHAT HAPPEN TO THOSE CRIMINALS, WE NEVER HEARD OF A COURT CASE,
WHAT HAPPEN TO THE BLACK ADULT WHO SEND A WOMAN OUT A WINDOW AFTER RAPING HER ,
IT ALSO HAPPENED IN THE SAME TIME FOR TRAYVON,
WHAT HAPPEN TO THE COUPLE IN THEIR CAR BEING ATTACK WHILE A MOB LOOKING IN,
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY WHERE GEORGE ZIMMERMAN WORK
AS A COMMUNITY GUARD TO PROTECT THEM,? THEY ALL COWARD ON HIM TO HELP HIM OUT,
NOT EVEN THROWING A BUCKET OF WATER TO SEPARATE THE ATTACKER,
AND HOW COME ? GEORGE ZIMMERMAN DID NOT SHOOT WHEN THE OTHER COMING SAID:
I WILL KILL YOU, WASN’T IT CLEAR AS CRYSTAL ENOUGH?
BECAUSE GEORGE ZIMMERMAN IS NOT A VIOLENT MAN, HE WAITED TILL THE LAST MINUTE WHEN HE GAVE THAT YELL FOR HELP
IN THAT COMMUNITY OF COWARDS
I understand that the young man was close to his father’s house, why didn’t he just go on there, go inside? Why start and altercation that ended in his attack on an armed man – that sounds like stupidity t me and as Forrest Gump’s Momma always said, “Stupid is as stupid does” and unfortunately for the young man his stupidity landed him 6 foot under!
And the Martin supporters conveniently leave out a lot of details that contributed… stuff that probably won’t make it into the trial until the penalty phase, like his past burglaries and violence.
As to Zimmerman’s head injuries… just this week I learned something interesting. About 10 years ago, while arresting a guy on PCP, I took a roundhouse punch to the left temple, knocking me down and maybe out for a second or two. What I learned this week? That roundhouse punch caused permanent damage to my auditory nerve, causing a little hearing loss in my right ear. Those who minimize head injuries, even those that appear minor, should pay attention.
@Claude McLain, #13:
Why would anyone automatically jump to the conclusion that it really was Martin who initiated the confrontation? The only source of that version of events seems to be George Zimmerman’s own written statement to the police. It should be obvious to anyone that he had a very strong motive for slanting the account in his own favor at that point. Unfortunately, he eliminated any possibility of a statement from the other guy.
To me, the statement reads like someone saying exactly what he thinks needs to be said to get himself off the hook. He even neatly covers the matter of having been told by the police dispatcher not to pursue the matter further. He’s gotten out of his vehicle, and hunting around for street signs. (Drive to the corner, George. That’s where they generally tend to put them.)
In his own statement, he repeatedly refers to the guy he shot as “the suspect.” What do you suppose that was about?
GREG.. TOM…. go HERE..
bcclist.com/2012/03/27/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-map/
look at the MAP of the CRIME SCENE.. look at the 911 TIME LINE…. Look where Trayvon was WHEN the “attack” occurred… if he had been minding his own business.. he;d have been nowhere NEAR ZIMMERMANN…. but, by his own GF’s words.. Trayvon decided to go and confront “the crazy cracker”…. HE initiated the confrontation… as to being “stalked” ( NOT true under Florida state law!!) by an “armed man”…
( Trayvon did not KNOW “Z” was armed prior to Z drawing his defensive weapon, so it’s IRRELEVANT ) .. hence his “attitude” he’d whup some ass…. he was WRONG!!
ALSO, any THUG with a BRAIN.. in a CCW state, should consider that EVERYONE is ARMED.. that is how COPS are trained!!!! Too bad this kid was so stupid……
NOW, you have the FACTS, you have the map/timeline in sync.. you can SEE.. TRAYVON instigated the Confrontation… so STOP your BS lies already… and.. STHU!!
@Scott in Oklahoma:
What past burglaries and violence? From all I’ve read, he had no such record.
Bloggers have simply been making such things up, and then claiming a police conspiracy to cover it all up when they’ve called on it. Conspiracy allegations seem to be the fallback position these days when assertions are made that turn out to have no supporting evidence. Why would the police department attempt to cover up such information? They seemed biased to begin with, when they demonstrated little or no inclination to pursue criminal charges. A known criminal record would tend to make such an attitude a little more understandable. They wouldn’t be inclined to hide it.
It you want a spotty past, look at George Zimmerman’s record. A restraining order for domestic violence, resisting an officer, and battery of a law enforcement officer are all documented.
@Hankster58, #16:
The yellow arrows on the map—assuming it is accurate—show Martin on a shortest-distance path to his father’s girlfriends home. They show Zimmerman following in his vehicle, exiting his vehicle, and then continuing by another route on foot for a considerable distance, making a turn in order to intercept Martin. The fact that he was following to begin with, and needed to stop his vehicle and exit it in order to continue on foot, working in a telephone call while doing so, strongly suggests that Zimmerman had some catching up to do. He’s a much shorter man, with a shorter stride, and would have had to hustle to intercept Martin where he did.
Zimmerman obviously hadn’t just stepped out of his vehicle to hunt for a street sign, as he told police. Nor had it likely slipped his mind at any point that he was pursuing someone he didn’t know while carrying a loaded firearm on his person.
I’m not at all clear on what “facts” you believe this presents that clearly exonerate George Zimmerman. If anything, the additional information raises more doubts.
Anyone here who says that if his or her teenager son was followed by someone with a gun and he ended up dead, that they would entertain for a moment the idea that their son was at fault, is a liar. I don’t care who threw the first punch. If my son feels threatened by someone who is following him with a gun and my son ends up dead, I blame the person who made the altercation inevitable, who initiated it. There’s zero mystery as to why you people find it so easy to blame the victim in this case. Honestly, zero mystery. But I ask you this, tell us all, for the record, that if your son was killed by George Zimmerman under identical circumstances that you would be fine with it. And tell us you’d be fine with strangers dragging your son’s name through the mud to excuse his killer.
When a person is driving drunk and they run over a little kid, they don’t get to make the excuse “that kid ran out of nowhere. No one could have stopped in time!” George Zimmerman put himself in the exact same situation when he followed Martin with a gun. Through his terrible judgement, he set into motion a tragic event that led to the death of a teenage. I am not saying he’s a cold blooded murderer, but at the very least he was criminally negligent and he has to pay for causing someone’s death.
@jainphx:
jainphx, you sure hit the nail on the head with that comment. You wouldn’t think that Libs are against self defense and home protection, but apparently they just figure everything is up to the Guvmint. How Zimmerman, defending himself, equates to a murder or manslaughter case is beyond the average persons ability to comprehend.
Greg, do you really think that a HOA doesn’t have the right to promote Neighborhood Watch? Do you really feel like a Neighborhood watch person calling the police when they see something suspicious is not reasonable? Do you really think that a Neighborhood Watch person keeping his eye on the whereabouts of that suspicious person until the police arrive is unreasonable and does that really amount to ‘pursuit’? Do you really think that a person being sat upon, and having his head pounded onto a concrete sidewalk and his face and nose being pounded with fists is not entitled to do whatever is necessary to save his life? Do you think GZ would be alive today if he had not had a legal firearm with him? You should engage your brain occasionally before opening your mouth.
@Tom:
Tom, I recognize you’re trying to bring out the humor in the situation, otherwise why point out and exaggerate the falsehoods you did.
Where is the evidence an honest teenager was ‘stalked’? It was not a ‘subsequent altercation’, it was a vicious attack by a trained MMA guy. Where is the evidence he (TM) was approached? Apparently GZ was standing in one spot looking for him when TM approached him and then attacked him. Would you have used a gun in those circumstances?
Greg
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN ALSO VOLUNTEER TO HELP THAT COMMUNITY,
who had break out like a normal thing happening so often,
the suspect you ask why is TRAYVON LOOKING IN THE WINDOWS ON HOUSES HE WAS PASSING BY,
AND HE SURELY HAVE READ THE BIG POSTER TELLING ABOUT A HIRED NEW GUARDIAN ,
WHY? WELL THAT IS TO PREVENT MORE BREAKIN BY SUSPECTED PEOPLE’S BEHAVIOR,
AND WHY THIS YOUNG TRAYVON OVER BLOWN RAGE OUT OF CONTROL TO MAKE HIM BEAT
AND BASH ON AND ON LIKE HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO KILL HIM, THAT BEATING TO KILL,
WAS REPEATED BY THOSE 6 YOUNG LATER FOR TRAYVON”S DEATH REVENGE,
WHICH ALMOST TOOK THE LIFE OF AN 80 YEAR OLD VETERAN LEFT IN THE STACH THERE TO DY OF HIS MANY KICKS ON HIS BODY WHILE THE CHIEF WAS YELLING : KILL HIM
@Redteam:
From Zimmerman’s own 911 call we know the following:
An armed GZ profiled TM as up to no good: “This guy looks like he’s up to no good, or he’s on drugs or something.”
That TM was aware he was being watched: “Now he’s just staring at me.”
That prior to any altercation TM attempted to get away from GZ: “(expletive) he’s running.”
That GZ decided to follow him instead of leaving it to the police:
Dispatcher:Are you following him?
Zimmerman:Yeah.
We also know from the testimony of Rachel Jentel TM was alarmed by GZ and that GZ continued to follow him:
“He told me the man kept following him,”
You have no proof of what actually happened in the altercation. Again, I ask you, if your son was followed by an armed man who was told to stand down by the police, you honestly think there are circumstances where your son’s death is his own fault? Bullsh*t. Under all circumstances it’s GZ fault. You follow a teenager who is walking down a public street in the United States and force an altercation, and shoot him, it’s your fault. Citizens have a right to walk down the street in this country. I don’t care if you and GZ think he looks “suspicious”.
Irrelevant. We already know an armed GZ exited his car and followed TM, who we also know felt threatened by GZ and attempted to get away from him.
You’re saying he was “looking” for someone without moving? That’s strange, because the police call took place in his car. And that’s not where the altercation took place. So how did he get from the car to the spot where the altercation took place if he wasn’t moving? Did the “one spot” magically teleport him?
I would never be in those circumstances. I would never be cruising around the neighborhood with a gun looking for trouble, seeking an altercation. If I ignored the police and followed someone minding his own business walking down a public street and he subsequently jumped me, and I shot him, I would 100% expect to be prosecuted. That’s a death that never had to happen and GZ had multiple common sense chances to avoid the tragedy. From the moment he decided to be a vigilante, to the moment he pulled the trigger, he chose every time to make the stupid, dangerous, aggressive choice. He caused that death and should be held responsible.
@Greg: #15, again Greggie, you display your ignorance of the facts of the case:
Jeantel, who was talking with TM on the phone at the time said that TM told her at one point that he was just outside his fathers house. GZ was never near that house. Then GZ was standing near the T and he was approached by TM and TM asked him, “why you following me for?”. Does that sound as if GZ was pursuing TM? Do you think that testimony came from GZ? Doesn’t it sound as if TM confronted GZ? You wouldn’t think this is a Lib/Progressive issue, but I guess they all just see everything in light of, it’s the Governments responsibility to protect the Libs.
@Greg:
All dismissed and expunged from GZ’s record.
Do you have to always be wrong about everything? Seems as if your pride would want you to occasionally be right. I guess not.
@Tom: You are funny, I hope you intended to be. You don’t seem to understand the case at all.
@Redteam, #20:
None of those questions have anything whatsoever to do with whether or not George Zimmerman behaved in a responsible fashion. The man is on trial for the shooting of an unarmed teenager, not for carrying a gun, or for being a participant in Neighborhood Watch.
If Zimmerman had behaved in accordance with Neighborhood Watch protocol, and if he had stayed with his vehicle and hadn’t pursued his “suspect” as the police dispatcher instructed, Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman would both still be alive.
You don’t know for a fact that the events actually occurred as George Zimmerman described them. You act as though you did. What is known at this point casts doubt on a number of specific points he made in his written statement. He’s also demonstrated that his testimony may not be credible in general. (Efforts to conceal defense fund donations, for example.) Zimmerman shot and killed someone. The fact that his own explanation can’t be trusted is the reason he’s currently on trial.
@Tom:
Not true, he said the ‘crazy-assed cracka’ was following him.
Did you not hear the testimony in the case, or just didn’t understand it? TM, being followed as you say, went to his fathers house. Then he told his girlfriend he was going back to confront the NIGGA that was following him to see why he was following him for. GZ was standing near the T trying to see where TM had gone or hidden. He didn’t see him. Then TM confronted him, and asked him “why you following me for?” Then he punched GZ, then he ended up dead. Had he just gone inside of his fathers house instead of returning to confront GZ, he would likely still be alive. He made a bad decision and messed with the wrong person.
The police testified that they did not give GZ any orders, certainly not to ‘stand down’. Do you really need to make stuff up to support your misguided theories?
You don’t read well, do you? GZ had gone, on foot, in the same direction TM had gone. GZ had gone ‘past’ the T over to the gate. He didn’t see TM there as TM was at ‘his father’s back door’ at the time. GZ, on returning to the area where his car was parked, stopped at the T and was looking in all directions for TM when TM came up behind him (having returned back from the rear door of his father’s house) and asked, why you following me for? When GZ asked him why he was there, he was hit by TM. That sounds as if TM was the one looking for a fight. You can pretend this wasn’t the facts, but you’d be wrong, as usual..
You’re not entitled to your own ‘set of facts’ in the case. GZ was in his gated community, where he was a Neighborhood watch volunteer, he saw a suspicious person, he called the police (why didn’t he just draw and shoot at this time, rather than call the police, if that’s what he was out to do) He was keeping him in sight (or attemping to) so that he could report his position to the police. It wasn’t a ‘public’ street. It was inside a ‘gated’ community. At no time did the police give him any instructions, so he couldn’t have ignored them.
@Greg:
Direct me to a Neighborhood Watch protocol that instructs the watch person to stay with his vehicle. Show me, in the testimony by the policeman, where GZ was ‘instructed’ to not pursue anyone.
Nope, if TM had gotta what he expected, GZ would be dead. Unfortunately for him, he messed with the wrong person.
Do you get pangs of agony when you’re wrong, as you always are. Is Liberalism a disease?
That was part of Zimmerman’s own written statement, I believe. As in, “The dispatcher told me not to follow the suspect.” Did you bother to read it?
Neighborhood Watch has disavowed Zimmerman.
@Redteam:
Unless GZ is as obtuse as you are, this is a pretty clear indication that they don’t want him to pursue Martin:
I noticed that you can’t answer my question about whether you’d consider this a justified shooting if it were your son. Perhaps that’s because you’re not prepared to dehumanize your own son like you have Trayvon Martin. It’s not much of a loss in your book, clearly.
@Greg: making it up as you go along, eh? The police said they only told him he didn’t have to follow him, but that they didn’t give him any order.
Not the Neighborhood Watch that he was affiliated with, for that community. Quit making up things.
@Tom:
Where is the ‘order’ to not pursue?
What do you mean, ‘can’t answer my question’ ?
It was a justified shooting, under the circumstances as it occurred. I’m sure no one would want their son to be a vicious criminal such as Travon, but if he is attempting to murder someone, they would be justified in defending themself. Travon didn’t need my help in dehumanizing himself, he did just fine.
Why was George Zimmerman even charged at all?
It was Attorney General Eric Holder’s collaboration with race-baiting Al Sharpton and Holder’s threat to trump up a federal civil rights prosecution that induced state officials in Florida to reconsider the initial decision not to charge Zimmerman.
See, looking like Obama’s son when an election was coming was worth circling the wagons for Obama’s Administration.
Now we’ve been treated to a prosecution where ”racism,” is being used instead of EVIDENCE!
Think where this leads if it were to prevail!
Just Friday the prosecution tried to distance itself from this ploy, saying now that racism has nothing to do with the case.
Well, which is it?
Back when the prosecution brought the case it used the term, ”profile.”
(See this old article:
)
In due course, I expect the defense team to make a motion for dismissal on the basis that the prosecution has failed in its job of bringing a case sufficient to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
I hope the judge accepts that motion and drops the charges.
Nan G
thank you,
you bring HOPE here with your comment,
Tsk, tsk. It’s only been five days of presenting the prosecution’s side, the defense has not even begun to present their side, yet Tom and Greg have already convicted Zimmerman. Tom insists that we must put ourselves in Trayvon’s parent’s shoes. Nonsense, that’s lynch-mob thinking.
Seeking justice means, (in as much is possible,) to examine the facts and try to render a just decision. Justice may favor the Prosecution or the Defense.
It was not necessary for Zimmerman to follow Trayvon on a presumption that he ‘might be up to no good’, but likewise it was not necessary for Trayvon to confront Zimmerman on his own presumption that GZ was following him (granted he was, but Trayvon couldn’t possibly have known for sure, GZ just as well might have been looking for a lost pet). Had either made different choices, TM would be alive and GZ would not be on trial.
I’d suggest everyone in the meantime relax, calm down and let the trial run it’s course. There are many out there in this nation who seem to want this trial to be a reason to initiate a race war. That kind of anarchy must not be allowed to fester or become inflamed.