Allah:
Remember when juror B37 told Anderson Cooper that initially there were three votes for acquittal, two for manslaughter, and one for second-degree murder? Meet the juror who voted for murder.
She wouldn’t/couldn’t convict ultimately but she seems to think the outcome was a moral travesty, yet she also thinks that the trial was a “publicity stunt” by the prosecution and never should have happened. If there’s one thing a raw, divided America needs now to heal after the verdict, it’s … the opposite of this, basically:
“You can’t put the man in jail even though in our hearts we felt he was guilty,” said the woman who was identified only as Juror B29 during the trial. “But we had to grab our hearts and put it aside and look at the evidence.”…
“George Zimmerman got away with murder, but you can’t get away from God. And at the end of the day, he’s going to have a lot of questions and answers he has to deal with,” Maddy said. “[But] the law couldn’t prove it.”…
“That’s where I felt confused, where if a person kills someone, then you get charged for it,” Maddy said. “But as the law was read to me, if you have no proof that he killed him intentionally, you can’t say he’s guilty.”…
She said she believes she owes Trayvon Martin’s parents an apology because she feels “like I let them down.”
“It’s hard for me to sleep, it’s hard for me to eat because I feel I was forcefully included in Trayvon Martin’s death. And as I carry him on my back, I’m hurting as much Trayvon’s Martin’s mother because there’s no way that any mother should feel that pain,” she said.
“In our hearts we felt he was guilty”? Go back and watch B37′s interview, or the local news station’s interview with the alternate juror. They didn’t feel he was guilty. Then again, four of the jurors issued a statement after B37 spoke up to say that she didn’t speak for them, so maybe the “we” here is a reference to those four. I’m curious to hear from them now. How many of the six acquitted him with a clear conscience, a la B37, and how many were convulsed with misgivings like “Maddy”?
Now, explain something to me. If she thought he “got away with murder” but that there wasn’t enough evidence to prove intent, … why didn’t she stand firm on manslaughter?
Watch the main stream media (CNN, ABC, CBS and others) nowadays if you want to see networks and their commentators and guests POUNDING SAND.
With the family that George Zimmerman pulled out of an overturned SUV getting death threats, and a retired preacher who is not from Sanford, but has the same name (George Zimmermann) spelled with two “n”s getting death threats by the tons, maybe Maddy is simply playing CYA in case the lunatics start coming after her. Remember, if Anderson Cooper can find out who the jurors are, I am sure there is some Democrat in the Sanford Court House that don’t have a problem leaking their names to the public.
Meanwhile, as Obama pushes his Amnesty Plan, a 13 year old girl in Austin, Texas was raped repeatedly by a dozen illegal immigrants. And the lamestream media yawns.
Perhaps this juror, who is not too bright going by her juror number but splashing her face all over national TV, has some divided loyalties. Seems she is a Hispaniblack, or maybe it’s Blackspanic. Is it possible she is thinking with her skin tone?
I once serve on a jury, and never found it either ethical or in good taste to discuss the particulars about the jury’s verdict. This “testimony” is silly.
Perhaps “maddy” had a little cash waived in front of her face, or perhaps wants to use this tragedy to receive their 15 seconds of fame?
Deplorable, all of it.
None of them should have discussed the trial. Unfortunately juror B37 was quick to publicly express opinions that the other jurors didn’t share. That left the others to either clarify the situation, or leave the public with a misconception.
I’m not sure why AllahPundit is so confused as to why the jurors felt they had no where to go in the law with the manslaughter charge. The jury instructions for Manslaughter in the Zimmerman trial were shaved down as a generic description, or did he not read them, and compare them to other FL jury instructions for that statute?
Florida has two pertinent definitions of manslaughter for the Zimmerman trial (not including the third, unrelated version that is DUI Manslaughter). Manslaughter by Act (needing to prove intent, aka Voluntary Manslaughter in other states). And Manslaughter by Culpable Negligence (aka Involuntary Manslaughter, which doesn’t need intent, but is evidenced by flagrant, gross or beyond reasonable care for potential bodily harm and life).
The jury requested clarification of the manslaughter charges during the second day of deliberation. The comments of B37 – who qualified she didn’t think Zimmerman was without responsibility based on his actions prior, and gave a long pause when asked if she would want him as a NW person.. and only if he didn’t go overboard again – and B29 are indication they wanted to know if they should or could consider Zimmerman culpable for his choices during their deliberation. The Court answered their request for a clarification with a vague dodge – if they wanted to phrase a question specifically, the Court would answer. They didn’t ask a second time. Judges can be intimidating to many.
Ergo, what the jurors felt is that the manslaughter charge – as narrowly defined in the jury instructions, and absent the specifics on Culpable Negligence – did not give them the flexibility to consider the events leading up to the killing. The law accommodates for that. The Prosecution and the Court did not.
To the specifics, compare the two below. The first SCRIBD doc is the text of the jury instructions to the Zimmerman jury – see the Manslaughter section on pg 10.
George Zimmerman Trial: Final Jury Instructions
Now, read below the full jury instructions on Manslaughter via FL 782.07. Not only is there a lot more to the manslaughter deliberation and consideration, but there is also a definition of “culpable negligence” there.
Florida Criminal Jury Instruction – Manslaughter by FindLaw
Note: Sorry I can’t find a way to shrink the embed type in their code. Either use the link above the SCRIBD doc to read, or use the complete FL Supreme Court jury instruction manual, and start reading on pg 134.
Had the jury been given these more complete instructions, Zimmerman’s fate might have been different in a parallel universe. We’ll never know.
The prosecution erred in not requesting inclusion of all Manslaughter – by Act or by Culpable Negligence – in the jury instructions. It won’t be the first time since there are convicted criminals in Florida now getting appeals based on improper jury instructions since the Montgomery decision. They’ve got a good shot at freedom since they are rightfully requesting a rapid trial. The State’s witnesses may no longer be available for these cases, or require more time to track down. The evidence is stale. So there’s been a lot of plea bargaining being done, with time served being the full sentence fulfilled. Zimmerman needn’t go that route since he prevailed.
However the State can’t bear the entire fault for incomplete jury instructions. It is the responsibility of the Court to ensure that the proper instructions are included… whether or not they are requested by State or Defense. Why Nelson didn’t include that, we’ll also never know. And apparently, many legal beagle talking heads and pundits aren’t even curious enough to ask why such a cryptic instruction for Statute 782.07 was given.
But here’s the summary revelation for the confused in life …. the court did not give a complete definition of Manslaughter, according to FL law, to the jurors. It’s that simple. Whether that omission was by design, or incompetence, doesn’t much matter. Zimmerman benefited because he was acquitted of guilt only as it relates to the instructions given for Murder Two or the generic Manslaughter.
But while he walks free, some jurors aren’t equating that with “innocent”, and are apparently eying FL law as inadequate… and that includes Zimmerman supporter, B37, herself…. who suggests that FL laws should be changed so she could have convicted him.
There is no law modification needed. What is needed is due diligence by the public prosecutors and the Courts. So be it. The jury and our justice system has spoken.
For those obsessing on both sides of the coin, you win some, you lose some. And judging by the fixation on all things Zimmerman on this blog (to the veritable exclusion of real news), that obsession is not confined to the Martin supporters.
@MataHarley: Nailed It– as usual. Thanks
@Greg: I agree Greg. My view is that there is fear of retribution of these jurors and so to cover her own but she is lying to the press.
When I was on a jury in a murder/rape/torture case, one local news network had a man follw me home.
They later admitted they knew where each juror lived.
After the conviction they came and wanted to interview me.
No way!
I can easily see this happened in the CNN case with these sequestered jurors.
Once the case concluded they had to get home.
I wonder how many people followed them to their respective homes?
It was wrong to do.
And who knows what kind of rationale this juror had for granting interviews.
But what she suffers from is a conflicted conscience.
We were told, in the judge’s remarks, that, IF we thought we would continue to have trouble sleeping after our verdict….we should stand our ground and fight going with that verdict.
Too bad this juror didn’t get similar advice.
She would have dug in her heels and insisted on a hung jury.
Then she’d be able to sleep at night.
For that, I feel sorry for her.
@Common Sense: What is she lying about? She spoke clearly and credibly as did the first juror who spoke out and was for acquittal.
SPIN all you want, the LAW… says he was INNOCENT…. too bad for the LIBS, who want to judge based on FEELINGS, rather than LAWS and RULES…… This one should NEVER have been on the Jury…
@Richard Wheeler: #10.. the LAW allowed for only ONE Verdict Based on the FACTS given.. what SHE FELT is IRRELEVANT to the trial. I smell a bit or “race compassion” in this one…. which to, has NO BEARING on JUDGING the CASE on it’s merits alone!
What this LOON is saying, is ” we said NOT GUILTY” Tho I feel he WAS ???? Then she admits she did her job as Juror WRONG.
@Hankster58:
Not to mention that Juror B-29, who wants to remain anonymous, has plastered her face all across national TV as well as having “lawyered up.”
Do I see a book deal or TV special starring her in the future?
@retire05, #14:
I wouldn’t doubt that you’re seeing it, but that doesn’t mean it’s real.
Juror B29 criticized Juror B37 for attempting to make one.
BTW, judging from her accent Juror B29 would appear to be Puerto Rican, so you might want to adjust your racist innuendos accordingly.
@Greg:
B-29 is a Blackspanic. So what? Of course, the poverty pimps are decrying the jury because it was all “white.”
And why her need to lawyer up? I don’t recall the other juror doing that. And yes, there were reports that a “couple” of the jurors planned on writing books.
How is accusing her of wanting to profit from her job as a juror “racist?” Or is that one of the new dog whistles the left is always finding? My guess is you could find “racism” in a door knob.
@Hankster58: Does that mean the other 5 white jurors had ” race compassion” for Zimm. All stated race not a factor. Jurors 2-5 distanced themselves from one who WAS seeking a book deal.
I say we got 6 jurors with individual differences. In the end they got it right based on evidence presented and juror instructions. If one can talk they all can talk.
Next case.
btw “blackspanic”?? was G.Z, jewspanic Enough already
@Richard Wheeler:
Just taking a cue from the Lamestream media that first labeled George Zimmerman as “white,” (and possibly Jewish) only to retract that and say he was a “white Hispanic.” So if you are going to get snooty about calling someone a “blackspanic”, which she claims to be as a “black Hispanic”, then accept all labels are fair game.
Never before in the history of news reporting has anyone ever been called a “white Hispanic.” But the LSM had to clean up his being a Hispanic to make it more “racial” than it was.
According to the new rules of left wing journalism, Obama is a white Kenyan.
@retire05, #16:
Refer to your post #3:
You’re more obvious than you think you are.
@Greg: o5 is absolutely transparent. Always has been. She’s proud of it.
@Hankster58, #13:
It’s a legitimate criticism of the moral dilemma she found herself in as a juror. She’s perfectly within her rights to explain that, even though it isn’t convenient for those who want to cast Zimmerman as the victim and Martin as somehow being the guilty party.
@Richard Wheeler, #20:
What always amazes me is the apparent disregard some people seem to have for the damage they do to the causes they claim to support.
Once again, an analysis of the facts of the Trayvon shooting, the laws regarding self-defense, and the trial, by a well-known expert in the facts of self defense and the use of deadly force:
http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/2013/07/13/the-zimmerman-verdict-part-1/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MassadAyoob+%28Massad+Ayoob%29
You can leave your media spin at home, folks, it’s a pretty smooth ride through his six-part analysis.
Edit: Okay, it’s eight parts now, and no telling how many before he’s finished with his analysis.
@Greg: They are the gifts that keep on giving to the opposition. We truly see them here at F.A. On the other hand, we see people like Word,Aye,Aqua and the doggedly irascible Mata who continue to demonstrate why true Conservative doctrine and pricinples still greatly influence the American Politic.
Semper Fi
@Richard Wheeler:
Unfortunately, our current administration is not.
The left wing Slate takes ABC to task for editing juror B-29’s interview:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2013/07/did_george_zimmerman_get_away_with_murder_no_juror_b29_is_being_framed.single.html
@retire05: #26, Face it, you cannot trust the left.
@Greg: #21 What dilemma? He was found not guilty of violating the law, so why does she STILL think PERSONALLY, he did?? Two faced Liberalism once again. Now, tell us how many Black on Black killings took place in Chicago this week, you don’t know do you, but you are all over THIS case?? Yet you claim No Bias? LOL!!! Ah Greggy… predictable as always
@Richard Wheeler: # 17.. meaningless question. I have not heard one of them, make the claim this one did. Sorry.
@Greg:
5. Race wasn’t discussed, and she didn’t focus on it. Unlike Juror B37, Maddy knows what it’s like to be profiled. She says it has happened to her while shopping. But she withholds judgment as to the role of race in this case.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2013/07/did_george_zimmerman_get_away_with_murder_no_juror_b29_is_being_framed.single.html
According to juror B-29, herself a “black” Hispanic, she apparently knows what racial profiling is and feels she has been a victim of it. How is it racist to take what the woman says as an example of her knowing what racial profiling is and having strong feelings about it due to her own experience? Are we to assume that those feelings never entered her mind in the five weeks she was sequestered listening to the prosecution?
But I will admit that you have the leftist tactic of calling anyone that disagrees with you a “racist.” It’s the only trump card you have with a President that is a major failure.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/26/did-abc-news-deceptively-edit-zimmerman-jurors-controversial-interview-an-unlikely-source-is-calling-them-out/
LOOK GUYS… ABC is now trying to OUT DECEPTIVELY EDIT NBC!!!! LMAO!!! BUSTED!!!!!
Yo Richard.. you chided me earlier, for “blaming the MSM again”… well RICHARD.. if the MSM, would STOP FALSIFYING THE TRUTH…. what REALLY WAS SAID and HAPPENED ….
Maybe we wouldn’t have to constantly POINT IT OUT!!
Ya Think???
http://www.standard.net/stories/2013/07/26/abc-interview-zimmerman-juror-shows-manipulation
http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/07/26/ABC-s-Misleading-Edit-of-Juror-B29
even LIBERAL LEANING SLATE SAYS SO!! they caught it FIRST!!
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2013/07/did_george_zimmerman_get_away_with_murder_no_juror_b29_is_being_framed.html
@Hankster58: And you probably won’t. What’s your point? Falsifying the truth?Does anyone doubt what this juror was trying to convey?