Many TV pundits are telling viewers not to worry about the government’s intrusion into possible lawyer-client privileged communications between President Trump and his lawyer, Michael Cohen.
If you have a loved one suffering from Alzheimer’s or dementia… or if you’re starting to worry about your own memory loss, you should see this.
The pundits say that since prosecutors won’t get to see or use any privileged material taken when FBI agents raided and searched Cohen’s law office, home and hotel room Monday the intrusion will not be a problem. This is because prosecutors and FBI agents create firewalls and taint teams to preclude privileged information from being used against the client in a criminal case.
But this analysis completely misses the point and ignores the distinction between the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution on the one hand, and the Fourth and Sixth Amendments on the other.
The Fifth Amendment is an exclusionary rule. By its terms, it prevents material obtained in violation of the privilege of self-incrimination from being used to incriminate a defendant – that is, to convict him or her of a crime.
But the Fourth and Sixth Amendments provide far broader protections: they prohibit government officials from in any way intruding on the privacy of lawyer-client confidential rights of citizens.
In other words, if the government improperly seizes private or privileged material, the violation has already occurred, even if the government never uses the material from the person from whom it was seized.
Not surprisingly, therefore, firewalls and taint teams were developed in the context of the Fifth Amendment, not the Fourth or Sixth Amendments. Remember who comprises the firewall and taint teams: other FBI agents, prosecutors and government officials, who have no right under the Fourth and Sixth Amendments even to see private or confidential materials, regardless of whether it is ever used against a defendant.
The very fact that this material is seen or read by a government official constitutes a core violation. It would be the same if the government surreptitiously recorded a confession of a penitent to a priest, or a description of symptoms by a patient to a doctor, or a discussion between a husband and wife of their sex life.
The government simply has no right to this material, whether it ever uses it against the penitent, the patient, or the spouse in a criminal case.
So let’s not dismiss the potential violation of the rights of Michael Cohen and President Trump, if it turns out that included among the materials seized by the government in the raid were private or confidential information or documents.
The recourses for intrusions on the Fourth and Sixth Amendments are multifold: the victim of an intrusion can sue for damages; he or she can exclude the material from use by the government in criminal or civil cases; or the victim can demand the material back. But none of these remedies undo the harm to privacy and confidentiality done to the citizen by the government’s intrusion into his private and confidential affairs.
An equally important harm is to important relationships that are protected by the law: between lawyer and client, priest and penitent, doctor and patient, husband and wife, etc.
If the ordinary citizen sees that even the president’s confidential communications with his lawyer can be seized and perused, he or she will be far less willing to engage in such communications. As a society we value such communications; that is why our laws protect them and that is why it should be extremely difficult for the government to intrude upon them, except as a last recourse in extremely important cases.
Just as the investigation is the whole purpose of the investigation, so a high profile (though unnecessary) FBI raid is a purpose in itself. Like the investigation, it implies really bad wrong-doing. It also temporarily satisfies the left’s blood lust for damage to Trump.
The left simply doesn’t care. The Constitution is an outdated document that gets in the way of all their progressive goals. The only purpose it serves is for THEM to hide behind when the heat is turned on them. So, don’t hold your breath waiting for liberals, when they learn of the why’s and wherefore’s of this raid and the rest of Mueller’s liberal-driven witch hunt, to gasp and cry, “They did WHAT?” It ain’t going to happen; they are salivating at this gross misconduct and Constitutional violations.
@Deplorable Me: I think Mueller is in so deep with nothing that he just wants to get this to an impeachment vote. You can bet that no one will push for resolution against illegal processes by the Justice Department (FBI/CIA) if Trump is gone.
Every client that had information jack booted by this rogue team needs to sue them personally, dont sue the tax payer get the Judge, Mueller and his cockroach team everyone of them need to be disbarred.
@Randy: Indeed, indeed, the investigation is the PURPOSE. We’ve all seen folks like Greg write that if Hillary was guilty, why wasn’t she prosecuted? The inverse is, if Trump hadn’t done something wrong, why is he being investigated, and for such a long time? It is an absolutely un-American abuse of power and authority… on both counts.
From memos between the Obama admin, the NSA, the IRS and others, we already knew that the “Deep State” already had something that they needed from illegal tracking. They only needed cover for having it and got that via this raid.
They have everything.
But not legally.
Via illegal NSA spying on all of us, including Trump and his lawyer.
What they lacked was a parallel, LEGAL way to have had the info.
This wasn’t it, as Dershowitz points out.
Most all they have taken can and should be thrown out of court or never used in the 1st place.
But, perhaps the info gained will merely be leaked to the press.
Leaks are the Deep State’s top tool in its arsenal.
In Trump’s case, his entire presidency has been leaked about from start to now.
Just as the so-called Russian collusion had markings in computer code that made it LOOK like it came from Eastern European hackers, so, too, do Obama’s Deep State operatives work to make it LOOK like one or another of Trump’s inner circle is really the leaker.
How many good men has Trump thrown out in a vain attempt to clean his inner circle?
A lot of them set up by these Deep State operatives.
Trump really needs to clean out all the Obama holdovers before dumping another one of his own over a suspicion of wrongdoing.
@Nanny G:
We have been assured Mueller doesn’t leak. So, don’t worry.
The left’s “investigation” has totally fizzled so they have to fall back on relying on leaking information that is supposed to be true, like Trump’s banking records being seized or Trump, Jr. having Wikileaks data before it was released to the general public. The left doesn’t worry about truth or facts, they just remember the “investigation”, the leaks and a general aura of “badness”.
@Deplorable Me: Love the leaks what will the morons expose this time…last time the leaks lead directly to illegal spying and lying to the FISA court. Seems they might learn but never they simply do not have capacity to learn.
They knew what they were doing was unconstitutional so must leak the info as quickly as possible,we know evidence obtained this way is not admissible in any court.
Does attorney/client privilege still apply when both are suspected to have been participants in the criminal act under investigation?
@Greg: #8 Yes Greg, Cheryl mills proved that didn’t she? Will Mueller destroy all the evidence as the FBI did for dearest Cheryl the weirdo thats into chicken sacrifice.
@kitt: They just released the first wave of the OIG report. It deals with McCabe and is filled with numerous references to a lack of candor. Ain’t looking too good for the swampies today, especially Andy. They’ll need to act fast to cover for him.
@another vet: He is just 1 goat that will be sacrificed, they are busy trying to brush out the tracks that lead to the top.
@kitt: I just finished going through the report. It’s very detailed and damning. Like you said, he is A sacrifice. They may even sacrifice Comey. It doesn’t take an Einstein to figure out who they are protecting. If the FBI would only raid his lawyer’s residence and business and get their hands on all of their personal conversations. Oh that’s right, he’s a deep stater and they have a different set of rules.
DOJ: Michael Cohen ‘under criminal investigation’
…and has been for months.
@kitt:
No, as they have done in the past, they will spice it up with some biased innuendo and leak it.
@Greg:
Wait… is it an “investigation” or a “matter”? Sometimes the two get confused.
The DOJ stated that Cohen is the subject of a second criminal investigation that’s independent of the Special Counsel’s investigation.
Cohen was also a fixer for this guy:
R.N.C. Official Who Agreed to Pay Playboy Model $1.6 Million Resigns
Cohen has also been officially involved with the RNC’s fundraising operations. Considering the size of the payoffs, questions about fund sources, and the fact that allegations of bank fraud are involved, Cohen may be in serious trouble.
@Greg: And what has it to do with the election?
Millionaires and broads, broads that grub for crumbs.
@kitt: You have to understand how desperate liberals are. Remember how hard-lined they were about violations of the law and Constitution under Obama?
@kitt, #16:
What did Monica Lewinsky have to do with anything?
@Greg: “Founder & CEO of Sex-Trafficking Site http://BackPage.com Worked For FBI; Robert Mueller Honored Convicted Human Trafficker With FBI Award”@<a href="#comment-553432"
Was Clinton impeached for his rape er..affairs that happened before he was elected.
enjoy your heros hero.
@kitt, #9:
Cheryl Mills proved the opposite, at least in her own case. The United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit upheld the position that attorney/client privilege cannot be claimed by a government lawyer to withhold information from a Grand Jury. They shot her attorney/client privilege claim down.
Cohen, of course, isn’t a government lawyer.
@Greg: #20 so a grand jury saw evidence gleened from her computers? https://nypost.com/2016/10/04/how-the-fbi-wound-up-destroying-evidence/
@Greg:
Aside from providing Bill relief from being married to a drunken lesbian harpy, she was the end result of investigations into sexual assault and rape… you know… CRIMES. Then, he lied under oath (something that, before the Obama administration, USED to be a crime).
But not before she had already used that “privilege” to duck questions. Since the courts have made that ruling, how many questions has she been asked?
@kitt, #21:
The New York Post, owned by Rupert Murdoch, is not known for unbiased reporting or journalistic excellence. It’s Trump’s favorite newspaper.
@Deplorable Me, #22:
The Clinton administration is not under investigation, owing to the fact that it does not exist, and never will.
@Greg: How many sources for destruction of evidence do you want? Is it just liberal MSM ignores the story? You never heard of it?
Sad-squatch spotted lurking in Woods
http://tammybruce.com/2018/04/sad-story-hillary-still-trying-to-figure-out-what-happened.html
@Greg:
Oh. Yet you repeatedly cite CNN. Go figure.
So then she gets a walk on all the crimes she committed because she was too incompetent to win? Actually, she is; the Uranium One payday and the non-investigation into her mishandling of classified information is being looked into again.
CNN attempts to report factual information. When they get something wrong, they acknowledge it. The same is true of the New York Times and the Washington Post. The reason they’re critical of Trump is because of what Trump says and does. Trump is his own problem.
There’s no credible evidence that she has ever committed any crimes. Her political enemies have never managed to find anything that would support charges, despite endless investigations that have gone on for years. Belief in crimes is not sufficient.
You’ve got to have evidence. That applies with Trump, the same as with Clinton. What’s freaking out the Trump administration is that crimes likely exist, and that there’s likely solid evidence that will prove it. We haven’t seen it yet, but everything is pointing toward that likelihood.
@Greg:
Well, yeah. There is. She is on VIDEO lying, under oath, to Congress. And what is she lying about? The fact that she illegally kept classified information on a secret, private, unsecured email server. Those 33,000 “yoga” emails she destroyed is obstruction of justice and destruction of evidence. Strike three… yer OUT!
Once the investigations get underway (not the pretend Obama DOJ investigations), much more WILL be found. Uranium One, influence peddling, Clinton Foundation fraud, etc, etc, etc.
Meanwhile, you know what you have on Trump? ZIP.
I have zip. What the Mueller investigative team and the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York might have is anyone’s guess. We’ll eventually find out.
@Greg: Certainly if there is anything that can be made juicy, it will definitely be leaked for maximum effect.
Sean Hannity Was a Client of Trump Lawyer Michael Cohen
Cohen’s not only a lawyer who will make $130,000 payoffs out of his own pocket, without reimbursement or the knowledge of his clients—he’ll also accept $10 payments from multi-millionaire FOX News personalities for legal advice. What a guy!
@Greg: You liberals keep reaching, reaching, reaching, and you are going to tumble right over the edge.
Actually we do tend to notice edges, and elephants in the room.
@Greg: But you never seem to notice guilty as hell criminal donkeys in government service.
McClatchy DC Bureau, April 13, 2018 – Mueller has evidence Cohen was in Prague in 2016, confirming part of dossier
April 25, 2018 — Michael Cohen to Take Fifth Amendment in Stormy Daniels Lawsuit
@Greg: I suppose in rare cases, like when the government improperly raids an attorney’s office and violates attorney/client privileges, it might be prudent to take the 5th, since there is no rhyme or reason to the attacks on laws and rights conducted by the Mueller witch hunt.
When there is a liberal-driven agenda within the DOJ to attack Republicans, as is going on today, a simple mistake or remembering 10 year old facts incorrectly can get one indicted and prosecuted. Compare that to being allowed to repeatedly lie under oath, even before Congress, withhold evidence, destroy evidence and avoid any prosecution whatsoever. Any person that does not enjoy liberal protected status should not cooperate with questioning or investigations until those liberal zealots are purged from access to such power.