Barry Rubin @ Rubin Reports:
So can you write “Arab Spring,” “free elections,” “democracy in Egypt,” and such things 100 times? This just might be somewhat in contradiction to the fact that:
Muslim Brotherhood President al-Mursi has just removed the two commanding generals of the Egyptian military. Does he have a right to do this? Who knows?There’s no constitution. That means all we were told about not having to worry because the generals would restrain the Brotherhood was false. Moreover, the idea that the army, and hence the government, may fear to act lest they lose U.S. aid will also be false. There is no parliament at present He is now the democratically elected dictator of Egypt. True, he picked another career officer but he has now put forward the principle: he decides who runs the army. The generals can still advise Mursi. He can choose to listen to them or not. But there is no more dual power in Egypt but only one leader. The Supreme Council of the Armed Forces which has run Egypt since February 2011 is gone. Only Mursi remains and Egypt is now at his mercy.
Oh and to put the icing on the cake, Mursi will apparently decide who will be on the commission that writes the new Consttitution.
Behind the scenes note: Would Mursi dared have done this if he thought Obama would come down on him like a ton of bricks? Would the army give up if they thought America was behind it? No on both counts.
This is a coup. Mursi is bound by no constitution. He can do as he pleases unless someone is going to stop him. And the only candidate–the military–is fading fast, far faster than even we pessimists would have predicted.
Muslim Brotherhood President al-Mursi has also just named the editors of the top Egyptian newspaper and other media outlets. They are state-owned, you know, and there are a half-dozen good little independent newspapers.
But one of them, al-Destour (ironically meaning “The Constitution”), has just had a full issue seized on charges of “fueling sedition” and “harming the president through phrases and wording punishable by law.” We know this through a report in the Middle East News Agency, the state-owned monopoly.
Show of hands.
Who is surprised?
One point, however.
All those men in the Egyptian military are unlikely to simply be targets and cannon fodder for the MB siting back in their safe offices and bunkers.
I see mass defections/insubordinations before that happens.
What Carter did for Iran, Obama has done for Egypt. Next on the list? Syria.
Lock and load, Israel. Obama’s pointing at your back.
@retire05:
Good point.
I just read that some of the secular generals were allowed to leave Egypt without trial and death sentence IF they would quit the Army now.
Also that the rank and file are being winnowed through.
Secularists are either being sent to front lines OR let go.
Militant anti-Israelis are being signed up to serve in great numbers, helped along by high unemployment.
We will look back and tell our grandchildren that Obama ceded Egypt to the Muslim brotherhood without a fight to support our ally Mubarak and that is why the Pyramids are gone. Thank the democrat totalitarians.
Hmmmm…very interesting. I wonder how the Egyptphobes here on FA can explain the Brotherhood’s cracking down on the ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS fits into this narrative?
And HERE we have Hamas ticked-off by the Brotherhood cracking down on ISLAMIC terrorists.
“But, but, but…that completely conflicts with what I’m reading on FA????”
“WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROT???”
@Ivan:
Did you miss what the MB leadership said about who did what after that raid on the military base in Sinai, Ivan?
Did you miss the letter, sent then pretended not to have been sent from the MB leader to Israel?
Morsi’s letter to Israeli President Shimon Peres said, in part, “I am looking forward to exerting our best efforts to get the Middle East Peace Process back to its right track in order to achieve security and stability for all peoples of the region, including the Israeli people.”
Israel insisted that the letter was genuine.
Now the MB realizes it is not going to roll through the Sinai and take out Israel, so, all of a sudden, it is ”going after the Islamists,” who were putting retaliation from Israel on the front burner.
Well, duh!
Everyone, with the exception of Obama, the Left and the really uninformed know the old Islamic saying about the STRONG HORSE.
Because Islam lives by that saying and they realize the IDF cannot be defeated for now we might have some calm before the storm.
@Nan G:
NanG, I judge people by their actions, not words. Their “words” are just for public consumption. The MB in Egypt is working hand-and-glove with the CIA to crack-down on Islamic radicals, as we’ve seen these past few days.
So, NanG, why hasn’t the MB renounced the Camp David Peace Accords? Yes, the Egyptian military can’t take on the IDF in Sinai, but the IDF can’t roll over the Canal like it did in ’73.
Again, I judge them by their actions, not their words.
@Ivan:
And you have proof of this MB/CIA collusion?
Look, Mubarak, to his credit, stopped some of the tunnelers between Gaza and Egypt by shooting the tunnels full of poison gas, killing dozens.
Not much media coverage.
There are a ton of sects and sub-sects in Islam.
We never get that part of the story:
some guy insisted on a tribal leaders’ daughter in arranged marriage, but she was already promised to someone else and so the killing begins.
Some guy wants to be the ONLY barber or tailor or candy seller in a side street.
He falsely accuses a competitor of homosexuality.
And so the killing begins.
And on and on.
We do not get all of the real reasons anything happens between Muslims….just the public STORY handed out by the winner.
Guessing the CIA is involved plants you with those who believe the ”Protocols of the Elders of Zion” is not a forgery.
@Ivan:
Gee, Ivan.
Read about that strong horse in Islam.
Maybe Egypt’s MB doesn’t feel as though it could WIN just yet.
Nothing worse in Islam than asking to be destroyed by Israel.
@Nan G:
Obviously, NanG, we’re dealing with the CIA, a CLANDESTINE organization. I believe that the MB is working with the CIA to crackdown on the extremists. The CIA isn’t going to say,”Hey, we set up the MB as a controlled opposition to lure Islamic radicals out into the open.” Right?
So no, I don’t have some TOP SECRET memo which proves my point.
Can’t you see that is exactly what is and has happened though????? Why is HAMAS so pissed off? Do you ever ask yourself these questions or do you just accept propaganda at it’s face value????
@Nan G:
Again, I ask you, why is the MB cracking down on Hamas. This fact completely obliterates your hypothesis.
@Ivan:
If you look into who was found dead in the Sinai you will learn it was NOT Hamas.
It was members of the Fatah.
And Fatah hates BOTH Hamas AND the Muslim Brotherhood.
Look up Mohammed Dahlan.
Note also that there is complete confusion as to who did the attack:
At first it was reported that “El Tachir Wal Hejira,” one of the most extremist organizations active in Sinai was responsible for the attack, later “El Tawahid” was blamed, and now Egyptian intelligence is focusing on “Jaish al-Islam” and its leader Mumtaz Dormush, as possible suspects of carrying out the attack. Dormush, formerly part of the Gaza Preventive Security Force headed by Mohammed Dahlan. Offshoots of al-Qaeda in Gaza include Jaish al-Islam (the Army of Islam), the Army of the Umma, and Fatah al-Islam.
None of those are ”Hamas.”
@Nan G:
You won’t get a straight answer from Ivan. He has “theories” but nothing to back them up. Perhaps the poor fool is confused since it HAS been leaked that Obama is co-operating with the Syrian rebels (Al Qaeda) by sending in the CIA.
@Nan G:
NanG;
This is from the link I posted in post #6.:
Now, I want you to read that very, very carefully. Tell me if I’m wrong on the following points:
1. This is Hamas, not Fatah saying this.
2. Hamas is accusing the “the new Islamist leadership in Cairo” of conducting itself not as Islamic radicals, but just like the previous government.
I suspect you didn’t read the article I posted in #6.
Bringing in Fatah’s relationship with MB has NOTHING to do with how Hamas views the new “Islamist” government in Cairo.
@Ivan:
Apparently you are ignorant of the PRICE differences between Gaza and Egypt.
Hamas tunnels into Egypt, buys stuff at the going rate, smuggles it underground into Gaza then sells it at exorbinant prices to the powerless while giving it free to their own cronies.
The effect on the Egyptian economy has been a disaster of prices rising on everybody, Egyptian and Hamas alike.
This leads to shortages in Egypt.
And this is beside the problem with the weapons.
Remember Egypt used to rely on tourists for 75% of their national treasury.
But tourists are few and far between nowadays.
The MB is fighting a PR war as well as a real one for the food of its own people.
YVAN
is that why the dictator send the GENERALS packing?
don’t be fooled by their actions, they have been paid to show they are on the terrorists,
they get millions from OBAMA, AND THE AMERICANS ARE NOT SO LUCKY, THEY GET NOTHING,
@Nan G:
Obviously, nothing I post w/r/t Hamas, a radical Islamic group, being upset at their activities being stopped by the CIA-backed MB government in Cairo will change you mind.
Unreal how people can rationalize anything they want.
@Ivan:
Anything to substantiate the involvement of the CIA in your imagined scenario?
Anything at all?
Dude gets elected, sacks the generals, and the right-wingers go nuts….. “full control”, as if that idea even exists outside of extremists frazzled minds.
So, the generals were all ‘moderate” Muslims? I want to read that from the right-wingers, how we need to support moderate Muslims.
@Aye:
Yes, go and read the link in #6. The MB run Egyptian government is cracking down on Islamic Radicals in Gaza.
@Ivan:
Already read the article. The CIA isn’t mentioned there.
Anything at all to actually support your contention? Or are you ready to admit that you’re just pulling stuff out of your azz?
@Aye:
See Post #8.
@Ivan:
Post #8 contains nothing other than more of your fever swamp rantings.
Where is your source material?
Where is the proof that the CIA is involved at all?
@Aye:
Indeed! Given that the CIA was caught flatfooted and clueless about whether the Mubarak regime had even entered the danger zone! The Israelis had accurately assessed the risk to the Mubarak regime a year before the first signs of an uprising. An uprising that was well planned by the Muslim Brotherhood over a span of five years BTW.
@Ivan: The have a different definition of Islamic extremism.
@Aye:
Did the USA help bring down Mubarak?
Anyone who has the ability, Aye, of inference, can rationally conclude that the CIA is pulling the strings in Egypt.
If you differ with me, I understand that.
I was very clear that a CLANDESTINE organization like the CIA wouldn’t publicize it’s connections to the MB regime in Egypt.
I think Egypt’s war on Hamas is proof that they aren’t the “extremists” that they are always accused of.
Notice how no one here at FA can explain this?
In other words, Ivan has no evidence of CIA involvement. He only relies on his conspiracy theory that because the CIA has done clandestine missions in the past, they must be doing so now in Egypt.
So via that kind of Hollywood-ish logic; the KGB, M15, Control, CHAOS, U.N.C.L.E. James Bond, Matt Helm, Maxwell Smart, Napoleon Solo and Austin Powers are all working deep cover.
“Shagalistic baby!”
@Nan G: When you talk about “strong horse”, do you mean, the title of a book (below) taken from Osama bin Laden’s 2001 remark that, “When people see a strong horse and a weak horse, by nature, they will like the strong horse.”[1]
In his book, The Strong Horse: Power, Politics, and the Clash of Arab Civilizations, author Lee Smith explains this using what he terms the “strong horse” principle according to which “violence is central to the politics, society and culture of the Arabic-speaking Middle East.” The strong horse is the person, tribe, country, or nation that can impose its will, the “strong horse,” wins. [2]
Is this what you’re talking about? I think it would be best to say what you mean, instead of speaking in parables. Also, it would be helpful if you would reference some of your statements, in order that the original source can be read. I know the ultra-right wing likes to call for this sort of thing when they run out of arguments, but rarely offers this documentation themselves—almost like they’re trying to hide what they’re saying.
Liberal1[objective]
you should know by now with your many visits, that Nan G.
is very transparent on all her comments here, and very easy to understand by all,
that’s more than your own bias comments.
YVAN
if one is pulling the strings in EGYPT,
IT’S OBAMA HIMSELF,
WE KNOW HOW CLOSE HE IS OF THEM MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD, SINCE THE AND EVEN BEFORE THOSE REVOLUTIONS BEGUN,
IT’S OBVIOUS FOR WHO FOLLOWED ALL THE MAKING AND THE INCITING OF THE CITIZENS OF ALL THOSE COUNTRIES WHICH FELL IN THE NOOSE VERY WELL ORGANIZE FROM THE THE FIRST PLAN, PROBABLY SHAPED
IN THE PEOPLE’S WHITE HOUSE,
remember OBAMA SAID HE WOULD TAKE THEIR SIDE IF A CHOICE WOULD OCCUR
@ilovebeeswarzone:
Obama is the head of our foreign policy, Bee. Like it or not, if you say he is calling the shots, he’s doing it through the CIA.
Thank you for agreeing with my hypothesis.
@Ditto:
Do you dispute that the US helped remove Murbarak, Kadaffi of Lybia and have a hand in what is going on in Syria????
If you agree, it is primarily through the CIA such activities would happen.
Yes?
@Ivan: Did@Aye:
I’ll ask you again: Like in Libya, did the US have a hand in removing Mubarak?
Feb 2011, Muammar Gaddafi:
Via Gateway Pundit, and MEMRITV for the translation.
Video and written translation here:
I guess you could say that Obama proved to be as two-faced as any Muslim Muammar Gaddafi even met.
Obama sure turned on him when he thought it would benefit his own reputation.
Poor Muammar Gaddafi was killed when a man shoved a knife up his rectum.
Nan G.
yes I remember that what GADAFI SAID, and when the revolution began GADAFI ask for his money he had put in trust with GOLD AND ASH, THEY TOLD THEM THERE WAS NOT BUT JUST A BIT OF IT,
THEY WENT THERE TO TELL HIM THERE HAS BEEN BAD DEALING,
HE GOT VERY ANGRY AT THEM, THEY LEFT AT ONCE,
GADAFI WAS DEALING WITH HIS REBELS, THE MUSLIM RADICAL.
THEN SOON AFTER, OBAMA TOLD HIM TO RESIGN, JUST LIKE THAT.
YVAN
did in he told MUBARACK TO LEAVE ALSO BEFORE , AND MET THE MUSLIMBROTHERHOOD
IN THE WHITE HOUSE RIGHT AT THIS TIME,
Egypt’s Muslim Organizations Call for Christian Genocide
Mike O’Malley
that’s not very comforting to know, when they are already your neighbors,
it just take a looney to create havoc, like that young guy who just shot a security guard ,was in the news,
who knows maybe he is a new MUSLIM and heard the call,
or maybe there are more of them in CHICAGO, BECAUSE THERE ARE MORE KILLING THERE,
BYE
@Ivan:
We asked for your proof of CIA involvement. The onus of proof is on you Ivan to back up your claims, not us. Simple assertions of your own personal conspiracy theories is not sufficient to count as proof.
@Ditto: @Ditto: @Ivan:
I agree. Ivan’s proposal seems rather unlikely. He needs to present evidence.
One of the unheralded but significant successes of Bush Administration was that it turned Libya’s intelligence service into a CIA asset. That relationship is now lost. It is unlikely that the CIA was active in the removal of Muammar Gaddafi until ordered to does so by the Obama Administration.
In August of 1981, the Reagan Administration entered into the Protocol to the Treaty of Peace with Egypt and Israel. It was thereafter that the military government of Egypt began to cooperate with US intelligence on terrorism matters. And terrorism matters in Egypt meant suppressing the Muslim Brotherhood, a Nazi sister party in its founding.
Ivan, are you proposing to us that this US & Egyptian military anti-Muslim Brotherhood relationship endures in the wake of the Egyptian revolution of 2011? If so, can you explain what you mean?
Mike O’Malley
maybe it did before the new dictator fired and dismantle the MILITARY JUST LATELY.
BYE
@ilovebeeswarzone: @Ivan:
Thanks Beez. That is my take too. However, if Ivan knows better it would be best if he would clearly explain what he thinks we should know. Evidence in support of his claims would be helpful.
Just remember, bringing the Muslim Brotherhood, a sister political movement of the German Nazis, into the Egyptian government has been a long time foreign policy objective of some of the wealthiest and most powerful long-time Progressive supporters of President Obama.
Mike O’Malley
I have read a few days ago that CANADA ASK all the CANADIANS IN EGYPT to come back, THEY SEND PLANES TO GET THEM OUT OF THERE,
and it mention a concern about how many are not answering the request, and it also said, there are still many who are still in there,
maybe your comment answer CANADA CONCERN,
they might be CHRISTIANS AND HIDING AND SCARE AFTER SEEING OR HEARING, WHAT YOU DESCRIBE,
BYE
@ilovebeeswarzone:
Seems a wise precaution to me.
Let’s review for a moment.
There is Pakistan, the perpetrator of genocide in 1971, has nuclear weapons, has an active jihad terrorist arm, engages in terrorist attacks against India, created and supported the Taliban and may have been the hidden author of 9/11.
There is Turkey, which has gone Islamicist, has suppressed its secularist institutions and is no engaging in dangerous aggi-prop against Israel,
Post Arab Spring Tunisia appears to be heading in the direction of becoming a hardline Islamicist state,
A Nazi sister party, the hardline Islamicist and terrorist Muslim Brotherhood appears to be conducting a Reign of Terror to consolidate totalitarian power in Egypt,
Iran, a hardline Islamicist state, moves closer day by day to obtaining nuclear weapons, ruling members of the Iranian government have expressed their intent to commit genocide against the USA and Israel,
Syria, is blowing apart in a civil war with the participation of Iran, Al Queda, the Muslim Brotherhood, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, …
Iraq is no longer a danger of obtaining nuclear weapons, Iraq has a democratic government and the best human and civil rights record in the region with the exception of Israel…
One wonders just how we have reached this state of affairs?
Mike O’Malley
I would not bet all on IRAQ, they have attacks from the haters so many times, there is still a dangerous opposition in there, they just kill 70 PEOPLE JUST A FEW DAYS AGO,, AND THEY ARE SCARING THE PEOPLE it’s their goal do scare the PEOPLE, it sound like the other uprisings at their beginning,
@Aye:
From the first paragraph: The American government secretly backed leading figures behind the Egyptian uprising who have been planning “regime change” for the past three years, The Daily Telegraph has learned.
Now, do you finally wish to admit you were wrong? Or will there be more typical Aye obfuscation and misdirection?