The Trump Defense: Why Experts Predict a DC Case Dismissal

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Thread via @willscharf

A short while ago in federal court in Washington, D.C., President Trump filed a motion to dismiss the case pending against him there for his alleged actions in the aftermath of the 2020 elections. The motion cites presidential immunity as a ground to dismiss the case in its entirety. This is a very big deal.

The motion persuasively argues that the D.C. case should be dismissed, and if past practice is any guide all proceedings could and should be stayed while this issue is litigated fully. Notably, this same reasoning should apply to the ongoing Georgia prosecution as well.

A number of legal commentators have anticipated this move, and in this thread I’m going to get into the weeds and review the core argument made—that presidential immunity is an absolute bar to the prosecution of President Trump for his alleged acts in office that underlie the federal prosecution in D.C.

(A) Presidential Immunity

At its heart, President Trump is arguing that presidents, even after their terms in office are over, are absolutely immune from criminal prosecutions arising out of their acts in office that fall within the “outer perimeter” of their official responsibilities as president, unless they have first been both impeached and convicted by the House of Representatives and Senate. And he’s arguing that all of the acts he is alleged to have committed fall within this absolute immunity.

This view, as the motion filed today makes clear, is deeply rooted in bedrock legal principles, in caselaw, in the Constitution, and in actual practice dating back centuries.

In Nixon v. Fitzgerald, the Supreme Court ruled that a president has absolute immunity from civil liability for acts within the outer perimeter of their official responsibilities. In short, you cannot sue a former president personally because his official acts harmed you. This is unquestioned Supreme Court precedent, based on very serious, core separation of powers concerns. If a president were susceptible to civil suit for his official acts, the Court held that this would “raise unique risks to the functioning of government” in light of the “singular importance of the President’s duties.” The purpose of presidential immunity, the Fitzgerald Court’s view, is to prevent concerns about being sued clouding the president’s judgment and crippling his ability to act—presidents need to be able to discharge their duties to the best of their abilities without having to worry about being haled into court when their terms expire.

This well-established immunity doctrine has never been tested in the criminal context, for the simple reason that no president has been subjected to the sort of relentless prosecutions that President Trump has now been faced with, but the motion persuasively argues that the reasoning in Fitzgerald should still apply.

(B) Impeachment Clause

This view is also rooted in the actual text of the Constitution. The Impeachment Clause of Article I provides that, although impeachment proceedings do not themselves carry a punishment beyond removal from office, a party convicted after impeachment “shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.”

By specifying that a president impeached and convicted could be subject to indictment, etc., the Constitution plainly and clearly implies that absent impeachment and conviction a president cannot be criminally prosecuted for his official acts.

Democrats impeached President Trump twice, and on both occasions the Senate acquitted him. Absent a conviction at an impeachment trial, presidential immunity applies to all of President Trump’s acts that fall within the outer perimeter of his official responsibilities, and for these acts at least he cannot be prosecuted.

(C) Scope of Immunity

Are the acts that underlie President Trump’s indictment in D.C. within this “outer perimeter” of his official responsibilities as president? I think the answer is clearly yes.

First, it is very important to note that in the context of assessing immunity, the motive of a president is irrelevant. Why the president did something is immaterial; the question is what the president did and whether that was within this very broad outer perimeter of his official responsibilities.

And because the scope of presidential authority and of presidential responsibilities is so vast, the catchment of presidential immunity is similarly expansive. When you actually review the alleged acts that underlie the D.C. indictment, my view is that each and every one clearly falls within the other perimeter of President Trump’s official responsibilities. We are talking about things like

•Making public statements about the administration of the 2020 federal election;
•Communications with public officials, both in the states and in the federal government, about the administration of the 2020 federal election; and
•Taking steps, like assembling alternate slates of electors, to allow Congress and/or the Vice President to take action on the federal election fraud that he believed had occurred.

Remember, for the purposes of assessing the scope of immunity, intent and veracity/falsity are irrelevant. Your views on whether President Trump’s views on the election were accurate are irrelevant. Your views on why President Trump did what he did are irrelevant.

If the acts themselves were presidential acts, falling within the outer perimeter of presidential responsibilities, they cannot form the basis for a criminal prosecution of President Trump, because presidential immunity applies.

As a result, since the entire indictment in the D.C. case against President Trump is predicated on acts that he is immune from prosecution for, the case should be dismissed.

(D) Appealability

One final note on timing: any denial of this motion to dismiss, or any similar motion in Georgia, is likely immediately appealable, as is the case in where Congressional legislative immunity is implicated. Which means, depending on how long it takes Judge Chutkan to rule, this issue could be before the D.C. Circuit and potentially the Supreme Court before long.

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I would guess that there are hundreds of valid reasons to dismiss all these cases because the cases are based on nothing but a political mission to take Trump out of the 2024 campaign. However, I will predict that, even if there was a Supreme Court case with the exact same details, just different names and dates, that would set a precedent for dismissal, this judge would not dismiss. He is under orders.

I predict the Deep State folds. This getting to SCOTUS and winning on merit alone. Just helps ensure Trump 2024. The fun part will be watching them try to untwist the Gordian knot they themselves tied.

SCOTUS bias will be the effort to salvage Trump 2024 and absolve the BLM-esque riots.

Just my best guess.

I doubt it. Conviction is not the goal; tying Trump up, keeping him out of the campaign and damaging him as much as possible with charge after charge after charge is the point. None of these indictments has a snowball’s chance in hell of holding up to appeal. They just want the theater.

Agreed. It’s the death by 1,000 cuts and the only impression that takes is the dirty first impression. Has buried many a J6 person. Trump’s skin is thicker, pockets deeper and this nonsense is like pouring gasoline on his fire. The theater is falling around the willing audience and the ugly, pimply reality is making all of his foes unravel. Or so I hope. Kudos!

“He is under orders”. Along with all the rest of the crews involved in all the cases brought against Trump and his supporters. There will be consequences.
Looking for the kangaroos making up this whole court nonsense.

Your polls must be from somewhere in Southern California totally not authentic have you Been taking names from the Cemetary again?

They’re national poll averages. Trump is unelectable.

LOL! Boy are YOU in for a shock!

The average IQ in America is now 98.

He is 1 point behind Robin Ware/Robert L. Peters/JRB Ware/Pedo Peter/idiot Biden in favorability. Trump has 4 phony indictments, which the Ministry of Propaganda touts constantly. Robin Ware/Robert L. Peters/JRB Ware/Pedo Peter/idiot Biden gets praise by the Ministry of Propaganda. So, WTF? The vast majority of the public must be seeing some reality. Oh, and check out Kamala’s poll. Ouch.

Did you think no one would look inside the poll?

democrats are stuck with biden, he is an albatross as a candidate. democrats have no one else to run, period.

This whole thing is Witch Hunt by UN/CFR/Soros, Globalists

The Indictment Alleges Only Acts Committed Within the Core of the President’s Official Responsibilities, Which Are Shielded by Absolute Immunity.

The indictment is based entirely on alleged actions within the heartland of President Trump’s official duties, or at the very least, within the “outer perimeter” of his official duties. As President Trump is absolutely immune from criminal prosecution for such acts, the Court should dismiss the indictment.

A. The Scope of Criminal Immunity Includes All Actions That Fall Within the “Outer Perimeter” of the President’s Official Duties.

The Supreme Court adopted the expansive “outer perimeter” test for immunity precisely

because any “functional” test would be inconsistent with the broad scope of Presidential duties.

Id. at 756; accord Blasingame Amicus Br. at 9 (“This immunity, the Supreme Court has explained, may not be curtailed by attempting to parse discrete Presidential ‘functions,’ or through allegations that official acts were taken with improper motives. Because the President has ‘discretionary

responsibilities in a broad variety of areas, . . . [i]n many cases it would be difficult to determine

which of the President’s innumerable ‘functions’ encompassed a particular action.’” (quoting

Fitzgerald, 457 U.S. at 756)).

In other words, the “outer perimeter” of Presidential duties—and thus the scope of Presidential immunity—encircles a vast swath of territory, because the scope of the President’s duty and authority in our constitutional system is uniquely and extraordinarily broad. “Article II ‘makes a single President responsible for the actions of the Executive Branch,’” Free Enter. Fund, 561 U.S. at 496-97 (quoting Clinton, 520 U.S. at 712-13 (Breyer, J., concurring in judgment)), and the President is “the only person who alone composes a branch of government,” Trump v. Mazars USA, LLP, 140 S. Ct. 2019, 2034 (2020).

Among these Article II duties, perhaps the most fundamental are the framers’ dual mandates that he hold “the executive Power,” and with it, the duty to “take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed.” U.S. CONST. art. II, §§ 1, 3. To this end, the President must assume

“supervisory and policy responsibilities of utmost discretion and sensitivity,” which “include[s] the enforcement of federal law.” Fitzgerald, 457 U.S. at 750; see also Vance, 140 S. Ct. at 2425 (The President’s “duties, which range from faithfully executing the laws to commanding the

Armed Forces, are of unrivaled gravity and breadth,” and “[q]uite appropriately, those duties come with protections that safeguard the President’s ability to perform his vital functions.”).

12. Thus, even where a President’s actions are “directed toward the constitutional responsibilities of another Branch of government,” or concern “matters for which the President himself bears” no direct constitutional or statutory responsibility, id. at 11–12, his actions are often still within the “outer perimeter” of his official duties, see Fitzgerald 457 U.S. at 756.

The case is weak.

Even left-leaning Politico seems to accept the foundation of the DC Smith case weakens when contrast against the executive power of the president.

[The] prosecutors’ case is really about distinct powers that the president has: communicating with the public, organizing his administration, talking to Congress, enforcing election laws and ensuring the Constitution is faithfully executed. Whether Trump genuinely believed that the election was stolen — which his attorneys say he did — is irrelevant in assessing his immunity from prosecution, they argue.

“This conduct is manifestly part of the President’s responsibilities in our constitutional tradition, and the question whether the President has a formal role in the election certification process makes no difference,” the attorneys wrote.

[…] Trump’s attorneys say there’s an even more fundamental problem with the charges against him: He was acquitted by the Senate in an impeachment trial for similar conduct. That acquittal, they say, renders Trump “absolutely immune” from prosecution for related acts.

“The Impeachment Clauses provide that the President may be charged by indictment only in cases where the President has been impeached and convicted by trial in the Senate,” the attorneys wrote. “Here, President Trump was acquitted by the Senate for the same course of conduct.”

The Senate acquitted Trump despite a 57-43 majority favoring his conviction because of a two-thirds requirement in the Constitution. At the time, Trump was charged with one count — inciting insurrection — related to his speech to a rally crowd that later became the mob that stormed the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. The impeachment trial came just a month after the attack — and shortly after Trump had left office. (link)

Last edited 1 year ago by TrumpWon

Republicans who rigged both Senate impeachment trials to protect the s.o.b. asserted it would be a matter for the courts. Now the claim is that the courts can’t touch him.

Democrats rigged them so that they even happened. Republicans followed the Constitution, refusing to convict on the basis of there being NO EVIDENCE SUPPORTING EITHER IMPEACHMENT.

Sadly, legal-types still think that the interpretation of the law even matters! LOL! The Left don’t care about precedent or the letter of the law. They just needed to twist things enough to get Trump in the hot seat. NOW he’s in their clutches. They won’t dismiss. Heck, they usually don’t even bother to make sure there are actual charges against the guy!

Trump for House Speaker sounds like a good deal to me. That should really throw a monkey wrench into the leftist/marxist plans
The phony cases brought against Trump by the marxist judges and DAs, etc. would add to the conflagration they have brought on themselves. Expect more and increased screeching from the left before this whole thing is done.

The GOP’s own House rules prevent anyone under indictment for crimes that could result in more than 2 years in prison from serving:

“A member of the Republican Leadership shall step aside if indicted for a felony for which a sentence of two or more years’ imprisonment may be imposed.” Republican Conference Rules of the 118th Congress 

You’ll have to settle for his puppet, Jim Jordan. I approve of the choice. The country needs to get a closer look at how totally dysfunctional these idiots are before the 2024 election.

Last edited 1 year ago by Greg

If convicted on all counts, Trump could be sentenced to 712 years and 6 months.

He’d burn the country to the ground to avoid any prison time. That’s how much he loves America.

Last edited 1 year ago by Greg

If convicted on all counts, Trump could be sentenced to 712 years and 6 months.

In a fair court, not a single one would prevail. In the leftist lawfare world, not a single conviction will stand up to appeal. It’s all a pathetic, disgusting, embarrassing joke. Democrats make a mockery of our justice system.

Once again, you don’t understand what you are reading.

greg is an idiot.

You think the lying bastard supports the Constitution and the rule of law, even after he openly stated all of that might all have to fall by the wayside to return him to power? How stupid is that?

“A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution. Our great ‘Founders’ did not want, and would not condone, False & Fraudulent Elections!”

I think the only lying bastard I need to worry about is mentally deficient Joseph Robinette Biden, Jr. And if you knew anything about D.C. (as you try to pretend you do) you would know that Lyin’ Joe has been known for his lies, his wheeling and dealing with entities that benefitted him (Du Pont and MBNA) as well as known for his absolute terrible temper.

It was Biden, not Trump, that had to resign his candidacy for an office over his lies and plagiarism.

And again, you misrepresent what Trump said. Are you having trouble with English as your second language or are you admitting you are just flat out stupid?

That’s an exact, word-for-word quote from your deranged cult leader:

“A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution. Our great ‘Founders’ did not want, and would not condone, False & Fraudulent Elections!”

One day it might be possible for you to realize how you have to twist, torture and manipulate facts to make them fit into your warped ideological view. He is describing what is happening when Democrats indulge in election fraud.

I know what Trump is. No one has to tell me what I heard and saw on January 6th. I also know projection when I encounter it. Trump’s propagandists exploit the hell out of it.

Of course you do. That’s why you have to lie about him.

It wasn’t Trump that led those people into the Capital, it was the FBI and Epps

Snap out of it, sock puppet.

I think a lot of people are missing the end game here. the end goal is to control the supreme court. all these cases against President Trump will go all the way. if certain judges refuse to recuse themselves they will be impeached. if they do recuse themselves the democrats will make the case for expanding the court, do not kid yourself in to thinking Trump hating republicans would not go so far as to help the democrats do this. President Trump in this case is the perfect storm. Merrick Garland thinks his seat on the supreme court was stolen, enough republicans dislike President Trump to not care if this is legal or not, and then you have Biden and the democrats who want total control over the people.

That’s how Trump saved (for the time being) the republic. Had Hillary won, the Supreme Court would be the leftist, rubber stamp, “People’s Court” the left dreams of. The Constitution would be gone by now.

America dodged a real bullet had hillary actually won in 2016. Four years of hillary/obama would have ended America.
biden is doing to America what hillary would have done.

BREAKING: New York Appellate Judge Smacks Down Far-Left Judge Engoron, Pauses Dissolving Trump Org.

BREAKING: JUDGE CANNON PAUSES TRUMP CLASSIFIED DOCS CASE

Looks like the lefts house of cards law fare is about to topple.

It looks like conspiracy to defraud the United States, witness tampering, conspiracy against the rights of citizens, and obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding will be the first order of business.

Last edited 1 year ago by Greg

All made up shit. Present some valid candidates and you wouldn’t have to cheat so much.