My biggest concern with this ammo is that if a person misses the person they aim at and hits someone else, the person hit will have serious injuries. I’m guessing that the crooks will love the ammo.
Petercat
11 years ago
Nah. I like high-tech as much as anyone, but I’ll stick with the proven stuff for my defense. (Modern bullets are unbelievably high-tech, anyway.) At $250.00 for a box of 20, this stuff is too expensive to practice with or to prove 100% reliable in my carry weapons, and has no real-world statistics to back up the claims.
Add a website that is more gee-wiz hype than solid information, and I’ll pass.
I’m too practical to be tactical.
Ditto
11 years ago
Seems simply a hyped-up advertizement on a modern variation of the slit-tip “dum-dum” bullet. A fragmentation round, the main consideration being that the bullet would break apart on hitting the target creating greater tissue damage as well as making the injured area much more difficult for medical personnel to “repair.”
Dum-dum bullets were often outlawed as being too inhumane. another drawback was that the bullet jacket in some cases would separate from the core and become lodged inside the barrel, and you can imagine what might happen should another round be fired into a blocked barrel. and as Smorg points out, if you miss your target and hit an innocent bystander, this fragmentation bullet will injure the unintended victim just as severely.
Perhaps the manufacturer has solved some of these problems, but for stopping power I’ll stick with hollow points, thank you very much.
Perhaps the manufacturer has solved some of these problems, but for stopping power I’ll stick with hollow points, thank you very much.
Another round to consider is the hydra-shock. It is a hollow point with a metal pin in the center. The pin is made to detach and keep going after the round fragments. If the hollow point hits a rib, it will fragment before going in. The metal pin will keep going. If a person is wearing heavy clothing, or has a lot of muscle or fatty tissue, the regular hollow point will fragment in the clothing, muscle, or fat, and not do much damage. I suggest staggering the rounds with hollow point or hydro-shock and regular rounds to be ready for any event.
Ditto
11 years ago
The Hydra-shock is a new one on me also. Staggering bullets isn’t a bad idea. Now that Californians banned lead bullets, most of the alternatives for hunters seem to be either copper or jacketed plastic bullets. The first problem is the lack of non-lead bullets for some calibers. The increased cost is another, (no doubt part of the Democrat plan to make things they don’t approve of more expensive for users.) So what are the alternatives and who manufactures them?
Most are 100% Copper. Copper is much rarer now, (last I heard it’s been decades since a new copper mine has opened,) making it a much more expensive round. It is also lighter than lead, and requires a higher velocity to match the accuracy of lead bullets.
So far the EPA has declined to ban lead in fishing gear, but with this environmental activist friendly administration don’t hold your breath, as Democrats in some states and wildlife areas have already passed such bans.
SACRAMENTO, Calif. – BB guns and pellet guns would have to look clearly different from those that fire bullets to be sold in California under a bill approved Tuesday by the state Senate in response to several recent shooting tragedies involving children…
Funny I don’t recall any recent BB or pellet gun caused “tragedies”.
SB199 advanced in the wake of the October fatal shooting of 13-year-old Andy Lopez in Santa Rosa, when a sheriff’s deputy mistook the boy’s “airsoft” rifle for a real AK-47. Airsoft guns are replica firearms that fire plastic pellets, paper balls or eraser chunks…
In other words the police officer decided to shoot the kid first and ask questions later. Obviously, California Democrats decided it’s the toy gun’s fault rather than poor judgment on the part of the officer.
De Leon’s new bill would require that BB, pellet and airsoft guns sold in the state be painted bright colors or be made transparent to distinguish them from real weapons.
“Law enforcement officers have extreme difficulty — extreme difficulty — in distinguishing between the real thing and what is fake … especially when officers must make a split-second decision in a very dangerous situation,” de Leon said.
Disregarding the hype from the film “A Christmas Story”, a child armed with a BB, pellet or air-soft weapon poses very little danger. A trigger happy cop however is a different story. Perhaps we should require officers who like to play Dirty Harry against children wear bright colored uniforms to distinguish them from more sensible cops.
Toy guns, BB guns, air-soft, water pistols etc, are manufactured now with bright red or orange tips. While it is true that some will (foolishly) repaint the tips most will use them as is. Unfortunately, criminals have started painting red and orange on the tips of their real guns, which only goes to show that when Democrats pass gun laws, criminals will always find a way around it.
Smorgasbord
11 years ago
@Ditto: #5
I learned about the hydra-shock from a Chicago police officer many years ago who said that is what they use.
When there is wildlife that ingests lead in the animals they eat, I can see where lead can be harmful to them. If lead is completely banned, I’m guessing a new style of ammo will appear. Possibly a new kind of plastic, or porcelain, or something that hasn’t been invented yet. For many years I have asked, “Why is it that when man and nature conflict, nature always has to give up?” The animals were here first, so we should have to adjust to them. A compromise could be that lead is banned for hunting and fishing, but lead ammo can be used for target practice if the area is blocked off so animals can’t get in the shooting area.
In other words the police officer decided to shoot the kid first and ask questions later. Obviously, California Democrats decided it’s the toy gun’s fault rather than poor judgment on the part of the officer.
I’m with the cop on this one. When there are toy guns that look like real ones, like the AK-47, and a police officer can’t tell the different between them when it is pointed at them, I don’t want the cop to have to wait until fired upon to find out if the gun is real or not. obama wants our soldiers to wait until fired upon before they can fire back. I disagree with that. Let’s add in the darkness at night, and that makes it harder for the cop to know if the gun is a toy or not.
If you hear a noise outside your house at night, and go out with your gun, and see someone with an AK-47, but you can’t see them plainly enough to tell if it is a real or toy gun, and you tell them to drop the gun, but they raise the gun in your direction, are you going to wait and see if it fires toy ammo or real ammo? I’m sure you would fire first, just like I would.
I would rather have a situation where a cop has to explain shooting a kid with a gun, than the police department morning the loss of the officer because they started a policy that the officer couldn’t shoot until they were sure it was a real gun and not a toy one. Sometimes, the only way to tell the difference is when they are fired.
If parents are buying toy guns that look like real guns, then they should make sure their kids know that the toy gun can be mistaken for a real gun, not only by the police, but private citizens, and the kid should be taught to not point it at any person they are not playing with, and if someone confronts them, they should raise both hands in the air, and tell the individual that they have a toy gun. They then should obey whatever orders the other person gives them.
My biggest concern with this ammo is that if a person misses the person they aim at and hits someone else, the person hit will have serious injuries. I’m guessing that the crooks will love the ammo.
Nah. I like high-tech as much as anyone, but I’ll stick with the proven stuff for my defense. (Modern bullets are unbelievably high-tech, anyway.) At $250.00 for a box of 20, this stuff is too expensive to practice with or to prove 100% reliable in my carry weapons, and has no real-world statistics to back up the claims.
Add a website that is more gee-wiz hype than solid information, and I’ll pass.
I’m too practical to be tactical.
Seems simply a hyped-up advertizement on a modern variation of the slit-tip “dum-dum” bullet. A fragmentation round, the main consideration being that the bullet would break apart on hitting the target creating greater tissue damage as well as making the injured area much more difficult for medical personnel to “repair.”
Dum-dum bullets were often outlawed as being too inhumane. another drawback was that the bullet jacket in some cases would separate from the core and become lodged inside the barrel, and you can imagine what might happen should another round be fired into a blocked barrel. and as Smorg points out, if you miss your target and hit an innocent bystander, this fragmentation bullet will injure the unintended victim just as severely.
Perhaps the manufacturer has solved some of these problems, but for stopping power I’ll stick with hollow points, thank you very much.
@Ditto: #3
Another round to consider is the hydra-shock. It is a hollow point with a metal pin in the center. The pin is made to detach and keep going after the round fragments. If the hollow point hits a rib, it will fragment before going in. The metal pin will keep going. If a person is wearing heavy clothing, or has a lot of muscle or fatty tissue, the regular hollow point will fragment in the clothing, muscle, or fat, and not do much damage. I suggest staggering the rounds with hollow point or hydro-shock and regular rounds to be ready for any event.
The Hydra-shock is a new one on me also. Staggering bullets isn’t a bad idea. Now that Californians banned lead bullets, most of the alternatives for hunters seem to be either copper or jacketed plastic bullets. The first problem is the lack of non-lead bullets for some calibers. The increased cost is another, (no doubt part of the Democrat plan to make things they don’t approve of more expensive for users.) So what are the alternatives and who manufactures them?
Most are 100% Copper. Copper is much rarer now, (last I heard it’s been decades since a new copper mine has opened,) making it a much more expensive round. It is also lighter than lead, and requires a higher velocity to match the accuracy of lead bullets.
So far the EPA has declined to ban lead in fishing gear, but with this environmental activist friendly administration don’t hold your breath, as Democrats in some states and wildlife areas have already passed such bans.
What else is the loony left up to? California lawmakers advance bill banning imitation firearms:
Funny I don’t recall any recent BB or pellet gun caused “tragedies”.
In other words the police officer decided to shoot the kid first and ask questions later. Obviously, California Democrats decided it’s the toy gun’s fault rather than poor judgment on the part of the officer.
Disregarding the hype from the film “A Christmas Story”, a child armed with a BB, pellet or air-soft weapon poses very little danger. A trigger happy cop however is a different story. Perhaps we should require officers who like to play Dirty Harry against children wear bright colored uniforms to distinguish them from more sensible cops.
Toy guns, BB guns, air-soft, water pistols etc, are manufactured now with bright red or orange tips. While it is true that some will (foolishly) repaint the tips most will use them as is. Unfortunately, criminals have started painting red and orange on the tips of their real guns, which only goes to show that when Democrats pass gun laws, criminals will always find a way around it.
@Ditto: #5
I learned about the hydra-shock from a Chicago police officer many years ago who said that is what they use.
When there is wildlife that ingests lead in the animals they eat, I can see where lead can be harmful to them. If lead is completely banned, I’m guessing a new style of ammo will appear. Possibly a new kind of plastic, or porcelain, or something that hasn’t been invented yet. For many years I have asked, “Why is it that when man and nature conflict, nature always has to give up?” The animals were here first, so we should have to adjust to them. A compromise could be that lead is banned for hunting and fishing, but lead ammo can be used for target practice if the area is blocked off so animals can’t get in the shooting area.
I’m with the cop on this one. When there are toy guns that look like real ones, like the AK-47, and a police officer can’t tell the different between them when it is pointed at them, I don’t want the cop to have to wait until fired upon to find out if the gun is real or not. obama wants our soldiers to wait until fired upon before they can fire back. I disagree with that. Let’s add in the darkness at night, and that makes it harder for the cop to know if the gun is a toy or not.
If you hear a noise outside your house at night, and go out with your gun, and see someone with an AK-47, but you can’t see them plainly enough to tell if it is a real or toy gun, and you tell them to drop the gun, but they raise the gun in your direction, are you going to wait and see if it fires toy ammo or real ammo? I’m sure you would fire first, just like I would.
I would rather have a situation where a cop has to explain shooting a kid with a gun, than the police department morning the loss of the officer because they started a policy that the officer couldn’t shoot until they were sure it was a real gun and not a toy one. Sometimes, the only way to tell the difference is when they are fired.
If parents are buying toy guns that look like real guns, then they should make sure their kids know that the toy gun can be mistaken for a real gun, not only by the police, but private citizens, and the kid should be taught to not point it at any person they are not playing with, and if someone confronts them, they should raise both hands in the air, and tell the individual that they have a toy gun. They then should obey whatever orders the other person gives them.