…with all the science I took, but never heard the term, not in sociology, psychology or philosophy. And I wasn’t sleeping through the classes, particularly as I was paying for them.
You’ve never seen a gaggle of unwashed hipsters hanging out together and calling themselves the Coffee Collective, the Foosball Collective, the Crotchet Collective, or something equally inane? Come on.
I’m sure that the majority of Democrats have never once considered themselves to be part of a “collective” OR think of their president as an “emperor.”
You’re likely correct. Drones at the bottom of the Collective are mostly blissfully unaware of the motivations behind their directives.
OR think of their president as an “emperor.”
Okay. What about King? Although I’m not sure if the phrase, “The King Has No Clothes” has quite the same ring to it. What do you think?
Your characterizations to that effect are inaccurate and misleading, hallmarks of political rhetoric. If you bury your legitimate arguments in political jargon, those who have no better points to make will cry for joy, but you will convince no independently thinking folk of anything except that you are intellectually bankrupt. I personally don’t think that you are, but with such prattle you tempt me…
The very fact that this bothers the Collective enough to the point that they’re willing to take the time and effort to argue against their own favored self-labeling, indicates that I am on the correct path. Thank you for your encouragement.
The president cannot write a law and then sign it all by himself. A law has to be passed by BOTH the House of Representative AND the Senate BEFORE it is sent to the president for his signature.
It’s a little ridiculous to see someone self-righteously scolding others for putting certain leaders on a pedestal when the impetus for the outrage is clearly that the person reserves a special place in his heart for Ms. Palin.
More with the links. You don’t actually think feeding words into Google and posting whatever comes is, in and of itself, a valid form of debate, do you? So if I Google “Palin + Messiah” does that prove anything?
IS MALEYSIA INVOLVE IN SLAVES TRADE ?
and trying to cover it ?
George Wells
11 years ago
@Kraken #51:
“Okay. What about King? Although I’m not sure if the phrase, “The King Has No Clothes” has quite the same ring to it. What do you think?”
I think that publicly insulting our president, be he Republican or Democrat, is treasonous. Disagreement and insult are two different things, and disagreement is protected speech. But your comments are by every account insulting and worthy of no defense or additional comment.
#52: Tell me of one such law he has signed. An “executive order” is not the same thing as a law. And if you object to Obama’s use of executive orders, did you similarly object to Bush’s use of them?
More with the links. You don’t actually think feeding words into Google and posting whatever comes is, in and of itself, a valid form of debate, do you?
What do you have against citations?
So if I Google “Palin + Messiah” does that prove anything?
Oh, Tommy. If you Google Bush and Romney you’ll see halo pictures of them as well to be sure. But certainly nothing compares to the massive proliferation of quasi-religious imagery of Obama that the Collective has published. Or the sheer rapture in which this cult of personality holds its drones in thralldom, who weep and faint at his speeches.
Now, with regards to the American Interest piece, Walter Russell Mead is a Professor of Foreign Affairs and Humanities at Bard College and a Democrat. Surprise! So it’s more than likely that this piece is using the word messiah with contempt, rather than using it seriously as drone Barbara Walters did with regards to President Obama. Bu we’ve seen Mr. Mead’s behavioral phenomenon before. The Collective oftentimes takes criticism that it hears from the Right, and attempts to repackage and send it back, not understanding that it rarely ever makes any sense when it does so.
But I digress. With regards to the Collective’s unconditional adoration of their cult leader, since I know that moral equivalency is one of the Collective’s favored debate strategies, I challenge you to find the Right equivalent of Orgasms for Obama.
But I digress. With regards to the Collective’s unconditional adoration of their cult leader, since I know that moral equivalency is one of the Collective’s favored debate strategies, I challenge you to find the Right equivalent of Orgasms for Obama.
I’ll wait.
Why would I bother. Your insistence that Obama is somehow more orgasmically revered than any politician on the Right is both impossible to prove and irrelevant to the discussion at hand. I don’t care how many links you trot out, you simply can’t quantify it. The fact you’re spending so much time trying to is simply a window into your own personal preoccupations and not much else. To the point at hand, responding to Rich and George’s observations about Palin’s political baggage – and how it may have impacted past elections, or may continue to impact the contemporary electoral landscape – with your increasingly unhinged insistence that Obama is worshiped by too many people (which seems to clearly bother you) is completely irrelevant to their points. Anecdotal evidence notwithstanding, there is no inextricable link between the two. People can hate Palin irregardless of how they feel about Obama. I think that’s the point you’re missing.
Kraken
11 years ago
I think that publicly insulting our president, be Republican or Democrat, is treasonous.
This is incorrect. Insulting our president is protected by the 1st Amendment, and ought to be. It’s only treasonous to insult a leader of you’re dealing with monarchy or some other form of despotism. Remember, despite MSNBC’s claims, he’s a president, not a king.
Disagreement and insult are two different things, and disagreement is protected speech. But your comments are by every account insulting and worthy of no defense or additional comment.
Insult is also protected speech, and ought to be. Otherwise, what punishment do you feel ought to be levied against me for my insults against the President? Should I be drawn and quartered, burned at the stake, my head put on a pike like good ol’ King George would do, what?
#52: Tell me of one such law he has signed. An “executive order” is not the same thing as a law.
Executive Order is not a law, hey? I guess that means that we’re not bound to comply to them then. Is that the same thing as saying a fee is not a tax? Collectivese can be confusing at times.
And if you object to Obama’s use of executive orders, did you similarly object to Bush’s use of them?
Your insistence that Obama is somehow more orgasmically revered than any politician on the Right is both impossible to prove and irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
LOL!!! So the whole Orgasms for Obama event doesn’t prove that Obama is more orgamiscally revered than any politician on the Right? Is that your hilarious contention?
George Wells
11 years ago
@Kraken:
I said it was treasonous, as in “like treason”. Carefully did NOT say it was “treason.” Sorry if you mistake the two words for being the same.
Do I think that an obscure event that took place in 2008, which I’d wager 99.999% 0f Americas are unfamiliar with, doesn’t definitively measure Obama’s popularity in relation to other politicians amongst the over 300 million Americans living today? Yes, I do. That’s my hilarious contention, I guess.
“Executive Order is not a law, hey? I guess that means that we’re not bound to comply to them then. Is that the same thing as saying a fee is not a tax?”
“Correct”… and “No”… and “A fee is NOT a tax, but for a different reason.”
1. A law may be overturned by agreement of the Congress AND the president in concert, or by judicial determination that the law violates provisions of the Constitution. An executive order remains in effect only so long as subsequent presidents wish it to. Not the same thing.
2. An executive order DOES carry the effect of law so long as the issuer remains in office or as long as the next presidents let it survive. AS long as it stands, it does approximate a law IN EFFECT. While they are in effect, you DO have to comply with them.
3. “A tax has the primary purpose of raising revenue,” said Joseph Henchman, Tax Foundation Vice President of Legal Projects, and author of the exhaustive study. “By contrast, a fee recoups the cost of providing a service from a beneficiary.” “This is not just a matter of semantics,” Henchman added. “In order to protect taxpayers, many state constitutions contain additional procedural steps and limitations that apply only to tax increases. These protective measures can be undermined if the legislature can circumvent them by merely relabeling what would otherwise be a tax, so a workable definition of ‘tax’ is necessary to give them meaning.”
You play fast and loose with the language. No wonder you have trouble understanding…
“Correct”… and “No”… and “A fee is NOT a tax, but for a different reason.”…You play fast and loose with the language. No wonder you have trouble understanding…
Yeah, this is the basis of Collectivese, also known as Newspeak. It’s a child’s relabeling game. Whether a fee, a tax, or a shared responsibility payment, the bottom line is that money is coming out of your pocket by force and going into the hands of government. Changing labels only fools adolescents, and the Collective.
Whether it’s called a law, an executive order, a mandate, a ban, a regulation, whatever, it’s essentially a set of legal gobbledygook that needs to be adhered to under threat of punitive action.
George Wells
11 years ago
@bees #67:
Why BEES! Thank you for calling gays a “Battalion of Angels”! VERY NICE OF YOU!
But in truth, I do not think of you as being an “evil force.” Don’t be so hard on yourself!
George Wells
sorry to disapoint you,
the bataillion of ANGELS ARE INVISIBLE BEING, THEY HAVE NO NEED OF SEX,
THEY ARE TOO FAR ABOVE IT, THEY ROAM AROUND DIVINITY,
WHERE THE LIGHT OF LIGHT SHINED FIRST,FOR THIS EARTH
Kraken
11 years ago
Be patient with me. I’m waiting for Captcha to release some of my previous comments before continuing.
George Wells
11 years ago
@Kraken #70:
I suppose so, just like redteam’s insistence that there IS no such thing as “gay marriage,” in spite of what folks are now doing in 17 states. Semantics is a game both sides like to play. Whether he or anyone else wants to call something a marriage, a civil union or a pumpkin, the effect of the thing on peoples lives is the most important part of it. Semantics aren’t meaningless, but their significance pales in comparison to the real effect.
I suppose so, just like redteam’s insistence that there IS no such thing as “gay marriage,” in spite of what folks are now doing in 17 states.
Yeah, have to agree with you there.
George Wells
11 years ago
@bees #65:
“IT CAME FROM THE OBSCURES FORCES OF BLACK MAGIC,
THE ANTI GODLY FORCES FROM A POWER OF EVIL”
By the way, Bees…
I am known by some as “THE GREAT AND POWERFUL OZ”
Though others prefer to call me simply a “Friend of Dorothy”…
Is THAT what you mean?
George Wells
11 years ago
@Kraken #62:
“Semantics? Really? Come on, you’re brighter than that.”
You flatter me. But I’m not that bright anymore. Like Icarus, I burned out fast, and doc says it’s now the diabetes that hastens dementia. Got a spot of it – some stuff is getting difficult. So if I play semantics, it’s probably a game I learned as a teenager, and it’s all coming back to me like a tsunami now. Bear with me – I’ll try to do better. Arguing here noticeably helps (friends say that I’m talking better), so thanks!
George Wells
you are flattering yourself,
what i meant are the invisible powers of evil one can call on,
OR WISH FOR,
WITH WIDGET TABLE OR INCANTATION TO THE DEVIL,
to get favor which always end bad,
George Wells
no one can say that your intellect has regressed, in any way, shape, or form,
George Wells
11 years ago
@bees #81:
After two massive strokes and accompanying brain surgery each time, my father could neither walk nor speak, but he could still type out astonishingly complex sentences on his old Olympia typewriter. I probably inherited his brain. We both were at the exact same age when we were diagnosed as having diabetes, and I’m just waiting to blow a head gasket. Fortunately, I’ve pretty much completed my bucket list (LOL) so I have time to waste here. (More LOL)
Thanks for the kind words.
George Wells
you have found friends in here,
they could tell you to not get angry or upset for words you might not like,
those two like anger and upset are the culprits, they can disable one person for life,
or even kill ,
THE TRICK IS TO LET THOSE WORDS FLY OVER YOUR HEAD,
BUT NEVER LET THEM ENTER IN YOUR HEAD,
BYE
Tom
i got to say this one for the sake of humor,
on 58,
YES THE PROOF OF OBAMA IS MORE ORGASMICALLY PREFERED,
IS JUST TO BE REMINDED OF MATHIEW, IN 2008 ,
WHEN HE SAID HE HAD A TINGLE IN HIS LEG,
HE STARTED THE TREND,
Kraken
11 years ago
It would appear that Ms. Palin has higher aspirations than working in government anyway.
Let the online petitions and letter writing campaigns begin!
@George Wells:
Are you sure?
You’ve never seen a gaggle of unwashed hipsters hanging out together and calling themselves the Coffee Collective, the Foosball Collective, the Crotchet Collective, or something equally inane? Come on.
You’re likely correct. Drones at the bottom of the Collective are mostly blissfully unaware of the motivations behind their directives.
Okay. What about King? Although I’m not sure if the phrase, “The King Has No Clothes” has quite the same ring to it. What do you think?
The very fact that this bothers the Collective enough to the point that they’re willing to take the time and effort to argue against their own favored self-labeling, indicates that I am on the correct path. Thank you for your encouragement.
@George Wells:
I’d appreciate it if you could let him know that. Thank you.
@Tom:
It is?
@Kraken:
More with the links. You don’t actually think feeding words into Google and posting whatever comes is, in and of itself, a valid form of debate, do you? So if I Google “Palin + Messiah” does that prove anything?
IS MALEYSIA INVOLVE IN SLAVES TRADE ?
and trying to cover it ?
@Kraken #51:
“Okay. What about King? Although I’m not sure if the phrase, “The King Has No Clothes” has quite the same ring to it. What do you think?”
I think that publicly insulting our president, be he Republican or Democrat, is treasonous. Disagreement and insult are two different things, and disagreement is protected speech. But your comments are by every account insulting and worthy of no defense or additional comment.
#52: Tell me of one such law he has signed. An “executive order” is not the same thing as a law. And if you object to Obama’s use of executive orders, did you similarly object to Bush’s use of them?
Your patriotism is underwhelming.
@Tom:
What do you have against citations?
Oh, Tommy. If you Google Bush and Romney you’ll see halo pictures of them as well to be sure. But certainly nothing compares to the massive proliferation of quasi-religious imagery of Obama that the Collective has published. Or the sheer rapture in which this cult of personality holds its drones in thralldom, who weep and faint at his speeches.
Now, with regards to the American Interest piece, Walter Russell Mead is a Professor of Foreign Affairs and Humanities at Bard College and a Democrat. Surprise! So it’s more than likely that this piece is using the word messiah with contempt, rather than using it seriously as drone Barbara Walters did with regards to President Obama. Bu we’ve seen Mr. Mead’s behavioral phenomenon before. The Collective oftentimes takes criticism that it hears from the Right, and attempts to repackage and send it back, not understanding that it rarely ever makes any sense when it does so.
But I digress. With regards to the Collective’s unconditional adoration of their cult leader, since I know that moral equivalency is one of the Collective’s favored debate strategies, I challenge you to find the Right equivalent of Orgasms for Obama.
I’ll wait.
@Kraken:
Why would I bother. Your insistence that Obama is somehow more orgasmically revered than any politician on the Right is both impossible to prove and irrelevant to the discussion at hand. I don’t care how many links you trot out, you simply can’t quantify it. The fact you’re spending so much time trying to is simply a window into your own personal preoccupations and not much else. To the point at hand, responding to Rich and George’s observations about Palin’s political baggage – and how it may have impacted past elections, or may continue to impact the contemporary electoral landscape – with your increasingly unhinged insistence that Obama is worshiped by too many people (which seems to clearly bother you) is completely irrelevant to their points. Anecdotal evidence notwithstanding, there is no inextricable link between the two. People can hate Palin irregardless of how they feel about Obama. I think that’s the point you’re missing.
This is incorrect. Insulting our president is protected by the 1st Amendment, and ought to be. It’s only treasonous to insult a leader of you’re dealing with monarchy or some other form of despotism. Remember, despite MSNBC’s claims, he’s a president, not a king.
Insult is also protected speech, and ought to be. Otherwise, what punishment do you feel ought to be levied against me for my insults against the President? Should I be drawn and quartered, burned at the stake, my head put on a pike like good ol’ King George would do, what?
Executive Order is not a law, hey? I guess that means that we’re not bound to comply to them then. Is that the same thing as saying a fee is not a tax? Collectivese can be confusing at times.
Yes. I do. I object to it for many of the same reasons that the character which Obama played on television objected to back in 2008. I’ll never understand why the Collective points to Bush’s bad policies in order to excuse Obama’s bad policies. Weird. Really though, But-Bushing is sooooo 2009.
This article accurately describes my gripes best.
Huh?
LOL!!! So the whole Orgasms for Obama event doesn’t prove that Obama is more orgamiscally revered than any politician on the Right? Is that your hilarious contention?
@Kraken:
I said it was treasonous, as in “like treason”. Carefully did NOT say it was “treason.” Sorry if you mistake the two words for being the same.
@George Wells:
Semantics? Really? Come on, you’re brighter than that.
@Kraken:
Do I think that an obscure event that took place in 2008, which I’d wager 99.999% 0f Americas are unfamiliar with, doesn’t definitively measure Obama’s popularity in relation to other politicians amongst the over 300 million Americans living today? Yes, I do. That’s my hilarious contention, I guess.
@Tom:
Allrighty then. What about the Obama-as-Christ statue?
TOM
AN OBSURE EVENT IS THE RIGHT WORD YES,
IT CAME FROM THE OBSCURES FORCES OF BLACK MAGIC,
THE ANTI GODLY FORCES FROM A POWER OF EVIL
@ilovebeeswarzone:
LOL . Good one, Bees.
@Kraken #59:
“Executive Order is not a law, hey? I guess that means that we’re not bound to comply to them then. Is that the same thing as saying a fee is not a tax?”
“Correct”… and “No”… and “A fee is NOT a tax, but for a different reason.”
1. A law may be overturned by agreement of the Congress AND the president in concert, or by judicial determination that the law violates provisions of the Constitution. An executive order remains in effect only so long as subsequent presidents wish it to. Not the same thing.
2. An executive order DOES carry the effect of law so long as the issuer remains in office or as long as the next presidents let it survive. AS long as it stands, it does approximate a law IN EFFECT. While they are in effect, you DO have to comply with them.
3. “A tax has the primary purpose of raising revenue,” said Joseph Henchman, Tax Foundation Vice President of Legal Projects, and author of the exhaustive study. “By contrast, a fee recoups the cost of providing a service from a beneficiary.” “This is not just a matter of semantics,” Henchman added. “In order to protect taxpayers, many state constitutions contain additional procedural steps and limitations that apply only to tax increases. These protective measures can be undermined if the legislature can circumvent them by merely relabeling what would otherwise be a tax, so a workable definition of ‘tax’ is necessary to give them meaning.”
You play fast and loose with the language. No wonder you have trouble understanding…
the NATURE DISTURBANCES THEY CALL CLIMAT CHANGES , are telling us of the WAR going on, betweenTHOSE EVIL FORCES AND THE BATTALION OF ANGELS,
@Tom:
What about the Obama Dildo?
Yeah, this is the basis of Collectivese, also known as Newspeak. It’s a child’s relabeling game. Whether a fee, a tax, or a shared responsibility payment, the bottom line is that money is coming out of your pocket by force and going into the hands of government. Changing labels only fools adolescents, and the Collective.
Whether it’s called a law, an executive order, a mandate, a ban, a regulation, whatever, it’s essentially a set of legal gobbledygook that needs to be adhered to under threat of punitive action.
@bees #67:
Why BEES! Thank you for calling gays a “Battalion of Angels”! VERY NICE OF YOU!
But in truth, I do not think of you as being an “evil force.” Don’t be so hard on yourself!
George Wells
sorry to disapoint you,
the bataillion of ANGELS ARE INVISIBLE BEING, THEY HAVE NO NEED OF SEX,
THEY ARE TOO FAR ABOVE IT, THEY ROAM AROUND DIVINITY,
WHERE THE LIGHT OF LIGHT SHINED FIRST,FOR THIS EARTH
Be patient with me. I’m waiting for Captcha to release some of my previous comments before continuing.
@Kraken #70:
I suppose so, just like redteam’s insistence that there IS no such thing as “gay marriage,” in spite of what folks are now doing in 17 states. Semantics is a game both sides like to play. Whether he or anyone else wants to call something a marriage, a civil union or a pumpkin, the effect of the thing on peoples lives is the most important part of it. Semantics aren’t meaningless, but their significance pales in comparison to the real effect.
@Tom:
How about the Saint Obama votive candles?
@George Wells:
Yeah, have to agree with you there.
@bees #65:
“IT CAME FROM THE OBSCURES FORCES OF BLACK MAGIC,
THE ANTI GODLY FORCES FROM A POWER OF EVIL”
By the way, Bees…
I am known by some as “THE GREAT AND POWERFUL OZ”
Though others prefer to call me simply a “Friend of Dorothy”…
Is THAT what you mean?
@Kraken #62:
“Semantics? Really? Come on, you’re brighter than that.”
You flatter me. But I’m not that bright anymore. Like Icarus, I burned out fast, and doc says it’s now the diabetes that hastens dementia. Got a spot of it – some stuff is getting difficult. So if I play semantics, it’s probably a game I learned as a teenager, and it’s all coming back to me like a tsunami now. Bear with me – I’ll try to do better. Arguing here noticeably helps (friends say that I’m talking better), so thanks!
George Wells
you are flattering yourself,
what i meant are the invisible powers of evil one can call on,
OR WISH FOR,
WITH WIDGET TABLE OR INCANTATION TO THE DEVIL,
to get favor which always end bad,
@Kraken #76:
Thank you very much.
George Wells
no one can say that your intellect has regressed, in any way, shape, or form,
@bees #81:
After two massive strokes and accompanying brain surgery each time, my father could neither walk nor speak, but he could still type out astonishingly complex sentences on his old Olympia typewriter. I probably inherited his brain. We both were at the exact same age when we were diagnosed as having diabetes, and I’m just waiting to blow a head gasket. Fortunately, I’ve pretty much completed my bucket list (LOL) so I have time to waste here. (More LOL)
Thanks for the kind words.
George Wells
you have found friends in here,
they could tell you to not get angry or upset for words you might not like,
those two like anger and upset are the culprits, they can disable one person for life,
or even kill ,
THE TRICK IS TO LET THOSE WORDS FLY OVER YOUR HEAD,
BUT NEVER LET THEM ENTER IN YOUR HEAD,
BYE
Tom
i got to say this one for the sake of humor,
on 58,
YES THE PROOF OF OBAMA IS MORE ORGASMICALLY PREFERED,
IS JUST TO BE REMINDED OF MATHIEW, IN 2008 ,
WHEN HE SAID HE HAD A TINGLE IN HIS LEG,
HE STARTED THE TREND,
It would appear that Ms. Palin has higher aspirations than working in government anyway.
Let the online petitions and letter writing campaigns begin!
@George Wells:
You’re welcome.