Operation Gunrunner: ATF agents rip gun sting


I’ll make a prediction here and now: Eric Holder will not survive this.

…U.S. firearms agents told lawmakers on Wednesday they were instructed to only watch as hundreds of guns were bought, illegally resold and sent to Mexico where drug-related violence has raged for years … they were told not to arrest the so-called straw buyers and instead see where the guns went.

Republicans and Democrats on the panel expressed outrage about the ATF program — “Operation Fast and Furious” — and demanded answers from the Obama administration about why arrests were secondary to tracking the firearms.

“We monitored as they purchased handguns, AK-47 variants and .50 caliber rifles, almost daily at times,” John Dodson, an ATF special agent in Phoenix, told the committee… An ATF supervisor in Phoenix, Peter Forcelli, said some tried to raise concerns with supervisors but were rebuffed…

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An awesome weapon, just what we don’t need in the hands of Mexican Narco Terrorists. Holder and anyone in the chain of command that didn’t object to this disaster needs their walking papers without benefits. Criminal charges should be considered for all involved. I’d hate to think that anyone who went along with this plan might be in a position of authority at some point.


Agent Terry’s family needs to sue the government!

Let me understand this. The ATF allows US procured weapons to be sold to straw men who sells them to Mexican drug dealers. Then when the Mexican government captures these weapons, US gun owners are blamed for allowing weapons to be sold to Mexico. Then the US Government under a liberal president proposes limits on US gun owners to prevent the flow of weapons to Mexico. Is this what they call a self-licking ice cream cone?

@Randy: Worse than this is the Gun shop in Houston who they put in position to do all of this. I know them and they are really outstanding Americans it is a family run business of many years. They were not even ask to do this and they were told to do it even after the told them they stated did not want any part of such a thing. This all came to light when back in December when the BATF was trying to bring charges against the owners of the Gun Shop to cover their own asses. (thank God for surveillance cameras and recorders)
I personally believe this was a plot from the beginning. I just happen to know several of the BATF inspectors and most of them in the Houston Office are decent people although I would not want them trying to shoot a person holding me hostage, they are not good shots. This order without question came from much higher up!

They should be required to reveal to the American public how many other locations they did this at as well. Talk about the abuse of the constitutional rights of Americans to promote their sick socialist causes.

Senator Charles Grassley: “One of the problems I and Congressman Darrell Issa have had is just getting answers to our questions and getting documents, and those questions being answered in those documents would give me the capability to answer your question. Without a doubt, the Department of Justice or the divisions within were involved. But it’s difficult to know what’s going on without getting the documents we requested.”

Obama is not a ”the buck stops here,” kind of ”leader,”
Obama ”leads from behind.”
Now he is hiding behind stonewalling instead of turning over legally subpeonaed documents.

I find myself wondering if someone has deliberately blown the cover off of a large-scale sting operation in progress.

It wouldn’t be unusual for criminal activities to be allowed to continue during the course of such an investigation, nor for undercover agents and informants to be participating in those activities. That seems to have been law enforcement’s usual approach when the goal has been to take down any large criminal organization.

If the gun running leads all the way up into the high levels of the Mexican drug cartels–and it’s a safe bet that it does–exposing the entire sting operation could get good people killed. It shouldn’t be assumed that everything connected with this can be safely discussed in the past tense.

Holder may have a good reason for stonewalling a room full of politicians.

Greg, you bring up an excellent possible scenerio.
If it were the truth, all Holder would have to do is insist on an executive session.
Things could be aired PRIVATELY and under a gag order.
I’ve just had to call paramedics as the young man next door od’ed and I found him in the alley trying to throw up.
He’s only 24 but his brain is gone and his life is ruined….drugs mostly from Mexico.
I’d love to see them all busted, too.

“Operation Fast and Furious contributed to the increasing violence and deaths in Mexico.
This result was regarded with giddy optimism by ATF supervisors hoping that guns recovered at crime scenes in Mexico would provide the nexus to straw purchasers in Phoenix.”
ATF officials were seemingly unconcerned over the deaths of Mexican law enforcement officers, soldiers, and innocent civilians, noting that you had to “scramble a few eggs” to make an omelette, in a callous disregard or human life.

— The Department of Justice’s Operation Fast and Furious: Accounts of ATF Agents (.pdf) —

Now just suppose Holder is stonewalling, a common tactic with the Obama Administration, to protect a profound lack of competence that extends to Holder and beyond.

again and again, I will call it BY IT’S NAME , TRAITOR to AMERICANS CITIZENS,

@Skookum, #8:

Now just suppose Holder is stonewalling, a common tactic with the Obama Administration, to protect a profound lack of competence that extends to Holder and beyond.

Some people believe that to be the case, and no one can prove otherwise. What worries me about that view is that it provides a strong political motivation for making an inquiry high-profile that perhaps shouldn’t even have been made public. No one would want to see a law enforcement operation against organized crime wrecked and people involved in it killed just because someone wanted to score political points. That doesn’t mean it can’t happen.


Greg, that’s what Closed sessions of the United States Congress are designed for.

Under the Standing Rules of the Senate, a closed session may be called by any Senator through a simple motion.
Once the motion is seconded, the presiding officer of the Senate directs the Capitol Police to clear the public galleries of spectators, and close all doors of the chamber.
The Senate floor will be cleared of all persons except the Senators and listed parliamentary officers, including the Secretary, the Sergeant at Arms, the Parliamentarian, and certain clerks.
These officers are sworn to secrecy.
All sitting Senators present are called to the floor, and they must surrender any electronic communications equipment including mobile phones and other electronic devices.

All business is considered secret, including senatorial remarks, votes, and other parliamentary proceedings.
The Senate can vote during the session or later to lift the secrecy, at which time the vote and the session proceedings will be published in the Congressional Record.

If a Senator discloses any of the proceedings except as directed by the Senate, the body can vote for expulsion of the member; any officer that does the same would be subject to dismissal.
In extreme cases, the Senate could vote the member or official in contempt of Congress.

Like the Senate, the House of Representatives may be called into closed session by any Representative through a simple motion and a second.

@Greg: Greg, I am really wondering about you. Do your parents exhibit this continuous inability to follow the facts and to reach logical conclusions? Is this a genetic defect? With all of the testimony you can still try to spin this again. Incredable!

The problem with all of this beyond what is being discussed is the method being expressed as being used by the BATF. What Idiot authorized the sale of weapons to Thugs? Let me share this account with you concerning the dangerousness of such matters. In the conflict and action with certain groups in Central America in the early 80’s some brainer with the Company got the bright idea that the best way know the strength of the terrorist groups we were operating against was to covertly sell them arms and munitions, and that by their use they would be able to estimate their strength and capacity.
The problem is that more than 40 innocent civilians were killed using the weapons that the company had peddled to the Terrorist over a one month period. When the men we were training were finally allowed to engage we found ammo on them (the ones we killed) with the same lot number and manufacturing date as ours. It is more than a little disturbing to be shot at with your own ammo!
With all of the secrets that are being held now and with all the blocking of information as well as so many things having to go through the Presidents office to be acted on like Terrorist cells it really makes you wonder.
I wonder if we will ever know how many of the weapons have been possibly used in shootings at and around the border. How many US civilians may have been shot by weapons that were purchased through this looney at best scheme. Just like Curt expressed in his writing: “An ATF supervisor in Phoenix, Peter Forcelli, said some tried to raise concerns with supervisors but were rebuffed…”
Not an inspector of just an agent, but an BATF supervisor!
I understand all full and well that sometimes you may have to bare a situation that would or could cause temporary endangerment of civilians in order to capture a criminal. But to openly arm criminals such as these while we are in somewhat of a border/drug war? What kind of responsible Government policy is this and who ever made such a decision to put civilians openly in harms way should be put out of office immediately and depending on the circumstances maybe even prosecuted.

@Randy: #12

I’ll draw a conclusion from the facts once the facts are known. I find this to be a more reliable method than selecting the conclusion I want, and then looking for facts that seem to support it.

The possibility suggested in #6 wasn’t spin, it was an alternate hypothesis–apparently annoying to some who think they have the whole thing figured out. I don’t assume that I have the whole thing figured out. What happened, what went wrong, and who is at fault isn’t known. That’s presumably why there’s an ongoing investigation.

Did your parents bring you up to jump to conclusions?

@Randy: Randy ole Buddy here we go…….Look at this…I promise there will more coming as well. This came from the office of Paul Rand!

Nearly 1 million American rifles.

Banned by a stroke of Barack Obama’s pen.

In a move unprecedented in American history, the Obama Administration quietly banned the re-importation of nearly one million American made M1 Garand and Carbine rifles.

The M1 Garand, developed in the late 1930’s, carried the United States through World War II seeing action in every major battle.

General Patton at the time called the M1 Garand “the greatest battle implement ever devised.”

The rifle is largely credited with giving American soldiers the advantage and securing victory for the allies.

During the Korean War, nearly one million of these rifles were brought to South Korea and left with the South Korean government afterward.

Now, South Korea wants to give American gun collectors the chance to get their hands on this unique piece of history.

A piece of American history that Barack Obama would like to see go down the memory hole.

That’s why I want as many Americans as possible to put themselves on record opposing this gun ban by signing the Official Firearms Freedom Survey the National Association for Gun Rights has prepared for you.


What you are doing is constructing a hypothesis that fits the conclusion you want. In scientific terms, that is called Lysenkoism. If they needed to protect agents that are involved in an investigation, they simply needed to call for closed sessions to determine the truth. There is something called Occam’s Razor, the most simple explanation is usually the truth. Doing contortions to make the scenario fit the facts is complete nonsense. Find another website to be a troll………..

I find myself wondering if someone has deliberately blown the cover off of a large-scale sting operation in progress.

The murder of a US DEA Agent might indicate something is horribly wrong. If there were no American deaths, perhaps it would be okay if Mexican nationals slaughtered each other with American government supplied weapons of the best quality. This is an ongoing disaster, these weapons are still being used by the drug cartels and will probably be used for twenty more years. Could that be part of a larger sting operation and be considered collateral damage. Will anyone be responsible if the border/drug war intensifies and the drug runners challenge our agents. Will we lose men to the best fifty cal in the world. Have you ever seen a fifty cal round? An excellent plane killer, the results on a human are unimaginable. It’s true the agent was killed with an AK 47, a fairly inexpensive but excellent weapon, but the 50 cal is ten times the weapon and we make our border patrol shoot bean bags, what ever those are.

We are going to lose good men to this insanity and we might all feel a little differently once the drug runners learn how to sight in that fifty. It ain’t going to be pretty.

One way or another, Holder should start speaking or face criminal charges.

Corn Trader, you are sharper than a razor.