On the Cusp of Historic Tax Reforms

Here’s the bottom line: Trump’s ‘Massive’ Middle-Class Tax Cuts Are Tiny Compared To Those Promised To The Rich

Possibly the fact that people are catching on to that angle explains this article, dated today, November 29: Deeply unpopular Congress aims to pass deeply unpopular bill for deeply unpopular president to sign

The special interests behind this legislation don’t really care about the resultant unpopularity of Congress or the President, because passage of the proposed tax reform bill would be Bender’s Really Big Score. They could buy a fresh batch of politicians and plenty of media leverage to make them look like the answer to all the woes of the average American voter.

Well, now you are confusing me. You and the rest of the foaming at the mouth left have been touting this tax reform as “tax cuts for the rich”. Is $143 a year for a family “rich” now?

The richest are most definitely part of the $143,000-and-above category, and their individual dollar-shares of the 77% of total tax cuts that category would divide up among themselves would most definitely be far, far higher than the group’s average $16,660 individual shares.

That’s because the “wealthy” you liberals love to vilify are a tiny percentage of all taxpayers… yet they pay almost 70% of the taxes.

They pay more taxes because they have enormously higher individual shares of the nation’s total wealth and income. Would it be rational to expect the poorest to pay the most taxes? Basic living costs take up most of their income.

Justice and rational, progressive tax schedules are not vilification. Wealth and success are commendable and good. I save the vilification for rich shysters and greedy bastards; for people who buy privilege and power, and then use it to rig the system to acquire even more.

I don’t disagree that the Clintons, over the course of their entire lifetimes, have become wealthy. They became political rock stars, commanding enormous sums for books and speaking engagements. They also became the subjects of endless accusations by their political enemies, and endless extensive investigations—none of which have ever resulted in criminal charges, let alone convictions.

Remind me how their progressive agenda rigged the system in a manner that favored their own personal advancement. That seems to have slipped my mind.

How about Al Gore who has made a fortune on AGW while he is a high carbon bandit.

It really seems to bother you that Democrats sometimes become very wealthy. How unfortunate.

How did AGW make Gore rich? Other than money from books and lectures on the topic, most of his wealth seems to have come from investments in the advanced technology and service sectors. I suppose he may have wound up there by avoiding investments into industries having large carbon footprints. That likely put his money in the right places at the right times. Early investments into companies like Microsoft made a lot of people very wealthy.

@Greg:

They pay more taxes because they have enormously higher individual shares of the nation’s total wealth and income. Would it be rational to expect the poorest to pay the most taxes? Basic living costs take up most of their income.

Good. You can admit the wealthy pay a LOT of taxes. Now, why would they not benefit a bit from tax cuts? Especially since many small businesses, one of the specific targets of the tax cuts for the purpose of stimulating the economy, creating jobs and boosting tax revenues, are part of the “wealthy” category?

Justice and rational, progressive tax schedules are not vilification.

Yet the left LIES about “tax cuts for the wealthy” as if only they benefit from the reforms. Why is that, exactly, if the left wanted to promote the ideal that they want to honestly discuss the topic?

I don’t disagree that the Clintons, over the course of their entire lifetimes, have become wealthy.

No, no, no. Didn’t you read Mully’s post? They became FABULOUSLY wealthy since 2000, when they, according to Hillary, were DEAD BROKE. Or, was she lying? The Clinton’s took a $1 million deduction for charitable contributions… TO THEMSELVES. Bill raked in $500,000 for helping with the Uranium One scandalous sale of uranium to Russia. They take in hundreds of millions of dollars to their phony charity and use it as an ATM. Any of that strike you as “unfair”?

Anyone that supports those thuggish criminals does not deserve to have an opinion on tax reform.

@Greg: According to Hillary’s released tax records, she and Bill donated $1,042,000 to charity last year. Of that, $1 million went to the Clinton Foundation. Since the charity spends on overhead, travel, salaries, etc. much more than they do on actual chatiry work, they effectively paid themselves. That comes out to 96% of charitable donations to themselves.

@kitt, #59:

Since the charity spends on overhead, travel, salaries, etc. much more than they do on actual chatiry work, they effectively paid themselves.

Really? Says who? Because the truth has repeatedly been demonstrated to be otherwise:

Bill Clinton is currently a member of the foundation’s board of directors, while Chelsea Clinton is vice chair. Hillary Clinton was a board member between leaving the State Department in 2013 through the launch of her presidential campaign in 2015. In the most recent year for which tax forms are available, 2014, the foundation reported that Chelsea Clinton worked 35 hours per week for the foundation and other related organizations, Bill Clinton worked 25 hours per work, and Hillary Clinton worked 20 hours per week.

The Clintons don’t take a salary from this work, and they don’t receive any other direct monetary benefit.

A fact which has been verified by way of examination of their own tax returns and the Clinton Foundation’s annual financial statements. Unlike those of Donald Trump, the Clintons’ tax returns have been made available for public inspection year after year.

Further:

The Clinton Foundation is a public charity that, as we have reported, allocates about 80-90 percent of its expenditures to charitable programs, while the rest goes to fundraising and overhead.

I get so weary of Trump’s bullshit and outright lies getting a free pass, while the documented truth concerning his enemies is totally ignored in favor of disproved smears and rumors.

@Bill… Deplorable Me, #62:

The Foundation pays for all their travel and lodging expenses. It is basically an ATM for the Clinton’s. 10% of the Foundation’s funds go to actual, real charity.

When they’re traveling on Foundation business, why shouldn’t their travel costs be covered? They’ve personally donated far more to the Foundation each year than their travel costs have ever amount to. Their personal donations have run into the millions.

The 10% figure is load of manure. As was previously pointed out, it’s been documented that 80-90% of the Clinton Foundation’s total donated funds go toward the costs of the charitable activities themselves. Most of what remains goes to cover the Foundation’s fundraising expenses.

All of the three most respected charity review organizations in the United States give the Clinton Foundation very high ratings:

Charity Navigator conducts independent reviews of how charities utilize their funds and how transparent they are. They give the Clinton Foundation 4 stars out of a possible 4 in both categories.

Charity Watch gives the Clinton Foundation an A, which is their highest rating.

Give(dot)org, also known as the Better Business Bureau’s Wise Giving Alliance, gives the Clinton Foundation full accreditation, finding that it meets all 20 of their standards for Governance, Effectiveness, Financial Management, and Fundraising.

Those are the actual facts.

Want to read about a genuine “charity” fiasco? Look up the details of the Trump Foundation’s numerous problems. There’s a long list of serious improprieties—and nobody is making that stuff up.

@Bill… Deplorable Me, #64:

The Foundation is a cloaking device to sell government influence.

Conspiracy theory is not reality. It doesn’t matter how many websites or propaganda outlets are pushing a false narrative; if it’s false, it’s still false. Facts remain facts. An absence of evidence isn’t proof that evidence is being hidden. Neither Bill nor Hillary Clinton is Professor Moriarty, criminal mastermind. How do you account for the fact that no evidence can ever be found establishing the truth of their endless outrages, when they’ve been subjected to microscopic examination and investigation after investigation for decades?

Trump didn’t use his foundation as a clearing house for US government influence. Hillary did.

Trump’s “charity” foundation is the subject of multiple investigations. The list of apparent legal and ethical issues and improprieties is long, and none are particularly difficult to figure out. Nobody is going give that operation their official seal of approval.

Trump tells his followers whatever they want to hear. He repeats what they already believe back to them constantly. They’re now at the point where they don’t even question what he says, no matter how unlikely:

Trump Says G.O.P. Tax Bill Won’t Benefit Him. That’s Not True.

Of course it’s not true. Anyone should be able to figure that out. But his base doesn’t.

Nobody has provided any evidence. People have provided only stories and opinions. When there’s actual evidence, there are legal consequences.

There are many powerful people, private and elected, who would like nothing better than a Clinton take-down. They’re now in control of the House, the Senate, and the White House. So why aren’t the Clinton’s being prosecuted? Because there’s no actual proof of any of this b.s. You don’t go into a courtroom and start citing internet sources, books by political hack authors, and things you heard on radio talk shows. You’re expected to demonstrate that the charges are true.

It’s the opinion of my cousin’s husband that the subbasements of certain Las Vegas hotels and casinos are linked to Area 51 by a complex network of secret underground tunnels. The proof can be found on the internet. He’s heard first-hand accounts on late-night radio.

@Greg: #67 not under LV under Denver International, keep your conspiracy theories straight. The laughed at Art Bell when he was reporting on EMP dangers , Monsanto, Government spying, NWO, Geoengineering and government controlled Media way back in the 90s.

Bernie tells it like it is, exposing some very inconvenient facts. The tax reform bill is being rushed through before the public can become aware of what’s actually in it. If they knew, it could never be passed. Everything he says about it is true. His predictions about what will necessarily follow are a clear warning.

Don’t even bother claiming this is the same thing that happened with the Affordable Care Act. It isn’t. The eventual passage of the Affordable Care Act was preceded by months of Congressional hearings and public debate.

What is Sanders saying that isn’t true?

Do you think the outcomes of the reform bill provisions that Representative DelBene’s line of questioning reveals are things that most voters would support?

Elections do have consequences. That is being demonstrated on a daily basis. Some people don’t seem to be able to figure out the long-term implications of what they’re seeing.

@Bill… Deplorable Me, #74:

McConnell says Senate has the votes to pass GOP tax bill

Senate Republicans locked down the votes Friday for a $1.5 trillion tax bill that bestows massive benefits on corporate America and the wealthy while delivering mixed blessings to everybody else.

Mixed blessings. As in, small tax cuts that phase out by 2027, while those for corporations continue. Then your taxes will be even higher than before. And an additional $1.4 trillion added on top of current debt growth projections.

Bernie is right. They’ll come back in just a few years and explain that they can no longer afford the present levels of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Sorry about that. Hey, cutting those things has always been part of The Agenda. Now they’ll be made to do it. It can’t be helped. Because of that debt, which, being responsible republicans, they’ve always been trying to deal with.

Fortunately, if you’re one of the wealthy and permanent beneficiaries of the tax reform provisions, losing these benefits won’t bother you.

Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) retains his integrity. He won’t vote for this scam. He’ll most likely be punished for it, and his principled stand soon forgotten.

EVERYTHING SANDERS IS SAYING IS TRUE. You haven’t even tried to demonstrate otherwise. Because you can’t. Nor can you demonstrate that anything Representative DelBene says isn’t true. Because she isn’t the one who’s answering the questions she’s asking. She’s cleverly making the man’s she’s asking reveal the truth.

@Greg:

Bernie is right. They’ll come back in just a few years and explain that they can no longer afford the present levels of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.

What do income taxes have to do with Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid? They are self-funded. If liberals would stop handing that out to illegal immigrants that never pay into it or robbing the SS fund, there would be no issue. Bernie forgot to mention that, didn’t he; probably worrying about his wife going to jail for fraud made him forgetful.

Fortunately, if you’re one of the wealthy and permanent beneficiaries of the tax reform provisions, losing these benefits won’t bother you.

Your evil “income inequality” became even more unbalanced under Obama. So, I guess you only like to see the wealthy benefit under failed liberal economic policies?

• Democrats are crying foul over getting a revised, nearly 500-page bill just hours before being asked to vote on it.

Hey, we simply have to pass it so see what’s in it. What’s so hard for Democrats to understand about that?

I’m still waiting to hear how taxes going UP on millions of taxpayers and only less than 1% get a tax cut is going to increase the deficit. Which one of your many lying sources is lying, Greg?

Just the PROSPECT of this tax plan passing caused over 4% growth last quarter. Obama would have been cheering if he got 4% growth in a YEAR. Liberals do not understand economics, only confiscation.

I don’t know how you can compare this to Obamacare; people aren’t going to have to pay a $20,000 deductible to use their tax cut benefit.

@Bill… Deplorable Me, #79:

I’m still waiting to hear how taxes going UP on millions of taxpayers and only less than 1% get a tax cut is going to increase the deficit. Which one of your many lying sources is lying, Greg?

No one has said that. What has been said is that households having average income will receive relatively low tax cuts that will phase out by 2025, while big corporations and the wealthy will receive tax cuts that are both far larger and permanent. The top 1% of all taxpayers will receive the greatest benefit of all.

Every non-partisan analysis of the tax reform bill has projected it will leave an enormous hole in the federal budget, even after new revenue resulting from economic stimulation is taken into account. The additional projected debt over a decade resulting from the tax reform bill alone ranges from a low of $1 trillion to a high of $1.8 trillion.

The tax reform bill as written is fiscally irresponsible. Which is to say, republicans are fiscally irresponsible. The distribution of the cuts is also stupid, assuming one really wants to aid average American families and encourage economic growth. It’s increased spending by average Americans that most increases the demand for goods and services, thereby boosting economic growth. Making the wealthiest 1 percent billions of dollars wealthier does not translate into an economically useful increase in demand, unless you’re in the business of selling Patek Philippe wrist watches or Kiton men’s suits. Multiple families spending the same money to buy clothes for their kids or a new minivan turns a lot more economic wheels. You’d think this would be obvious, just as you’d think the fact that republicans don’t really give a damn about debt and deficits would be obvious. These are just things they talk about to get relected.

Did you have something specific to say countering the arguments that democrats made? Or countering the arguments that non-partisan tax and economic experts have made? Pointing at them and proclaiming them to be silly doesn’t actually count for much. At least outside of the delusional Trump propaganda bubble.

I guess Mexico really will have to pay for that wall now, since the tax reform bill alone will assure years of increasing deficits. Where’s money for increased military spending and Trump’s imaginary infrastructure renovation plan supposed to come from?

@Greg:

Did you have something specific to say countering the arguments that democrats made?

Yes. They are notorious goddamn liars. They lie with every breath. Aside from the afore mentioned question, which apparently NO ONE has any response to, they have been lying about the tax bill while it was still in conference, still being modified, still being debated and without ever having read it.

Of course, there is their credibility when they were passing Obamacare to refer to. They lied about every aspect of THAT calamity and we all know how THAT turned out.

Note what happens with the top 1 percent of American households—and with the top 0.1 percent, which would be the category the President and his family fall into.

Trump has business widely varied business interests all across the country. There is literally NOTHING that he could do that would not benefit some of his interests somewhere. You liberals simply need to get over this jealous obsession that someone else is going to have something you do not. That is a fact of life and, of course, you regularly support candidates that screw taxpayers out of millions of dollars for their own benefit (even selling vital national assets for their own profit), so someone making money is not your prime concern; in this case, it is Trump scoring a major victory that is going to benefit the entire nation and the Republicans for a long time to come that sticks in your craw.

WaPoo has also firmly established themselves as a left wing propaganda organ, so save your cuts and pastes; I do not regard them as a viable source of information. Like the Democrats in Congress, they too are goddamn liars.

I guess Mexico really will have to pay for that wall now, since the tax reform bill alone will assure years of increasing deficits.

After the Bush tax cuts, deficits went down for four years, up to the time of the recession (and Obama running up yearly trillion dollar deficits). Yes, it is fully possible and most probable that the economic growth Obama kept strangled will more than pay for the tax cuts.

The left, with their infantile exhibition of sore loser, crybaby, spoiled brat reaction to losing an election with the WORST candidate anyone ever considered running, have totally sacrificed their credibility (they lost their honor and character long ago) and make a transparent display of being simply against anything Trump tries to do.

Run in fear from that tax cuts. They are the death of the far left Democrat party.

@Greg:

Some people tend to feel that way when they notice their pockets are about to be picked.

Yeah, which is why this tax reform is such a great accomplishment. The pocket picking is being greatly reduced.

@Greg:

Oh, by the way…republicans also just destabilized the health insurance market with a tax reform provision that killed the Affordable Care Act health insurance mandate, and don’t have a freaking clue how to deal with the consequences.

The health insurance market was already destabilized… wrecked, in fact… by the ill-conceived Obamacare. Fixing this problem (another of Obama’s residual disasters) will be painful, but it has to be fixed nonetheless. Forcing people to purchase insurance they didn’t want and, with the sky-high deductibles, couldn’t use anyway, wasn’t working.

Don’t complain about the cost of repairs when you supported the destruction.

@Greg: Obamacare is a disaster. Insurers are getting out, premiums and deductible have skyrocketed, doctors have stopped taking Medicaid patients and health care is being rationed. You can put all the lipstick you want to on it, but it’s still a pig. Oink.

@Greg: Well, we had to pass it to see what’s in it. What’s wrong with that?

An explanation of how the republican tax reform bill works, in 1.5 seconds.