#NARRATIVEFAIL: CNN: Witnesses Tell FBI That Zimmerman Is No Racist. “Ware, a black homeless man, was beaten by a Sanford police lieutenant’s son. Zimmerman was critical of police handling of the case and reportedly worked on Ware’s behalf.” Of course, if you read the right blogs, you knew this stuff months ago, but at least they’re starting to catch up.
via Instapundit
@Hankster58:
Perhaps Mr. Hankster this polemical beauty may be perhaps reformulated colloquially to reveal its substance as follows:
Who you lookin’ at cracker?
and
Damn! F***! ! Why dat crakkker callin’ da man?
In the context of a citizen’s life in the Republic, “profiling” is no more than a political crime and violation of racialist etiquette.
@MataHarley:
Now now! Remember, I gave Christina Meza the benefit of the doubt and assumed that she is a damaged victim of some sort of abuse and that she was trying to tell her story the best she can at this time. That is far far more credit and fairness then you have been willing to give to George Zimmerman, Me Lady
@Mike O’Malley:
That ugly racist streak of yours is never far below the surface is it Mr. O’Malley?
AYE
on 113
it doesn’t change the real fact at the end, that ZIMMERMAN was attack to the point of loosing his life
IF
he would not have had a way to stop it,
it happen to be his gun saving his life, we have that proof and nothing else count, but only distract from the end fact and proof,
AND THAT IF” WOULD HAVE SAVE LIVES IN COLORADO, IF one would have had his gun not allowed there, as a citizen A MILITARY which we know where there, are sharp shooters, must now be so troubled by that restriction on lawful citizen
and MILITARY back from hell, be subject to be unarmed in a stage of war,
why else did the FRAMERS MADE THAT CARRYING A LAW? THERE IS THE ANSWER IN EVERYBODY’S FACE
@ilovebeeswarzone:
Why can’t George Zimmerman tell the truth Bees?
Why does he tell the tale over and over and over again with details changing each time?
Yet, not a single one of the tales fits the physical evidence?
Why is that? Doesn’t it make you wonder?
AYE
I would answer to that question if he was ask that his brain suffer contusions
being the the causes of that change of answers, and he doesn’t know it himself how deep, so that is why, he cannot answer this as I am doing,
because when you are beaten that hard so to have the brain blood come out, that is very hard and deep,
and there are no way to deny he had aftermath consequences, blur-ying his recollection of
describing the event did in very many repetitions, he is not the same person in his core as before, he still is wounded physicaly and emotionaly and in brain functions which might or might not heal, GOD KNOW ONLY when it will. he is still in shock and we see it by his rigidity in answering.
that is why I think of his innocent also, no matter those problems you have notice.
by
Aye, do I hear this right? Bees admits that Zim is lying/changing his story, but that it’s because of his non existent “brain injury” from a surface, shallow laceration? LOL
@ilovebeeswarzone, any attempt to equate Zimmerman killing Martin with the Colorado theater massacre is despicable, and an insult. Those movie goers were under assault from a demented young man, committing a criminal act. Martin was not Holmes, and was not doing anything wrong when he was hunted, and killed.
Additionally, Martin – in Zimmerman’s eyes, an already convicted “f*#kin’ punk” who always “gets away” … but not this time while he was on “watch” – had every right to feel threatened by Zimmerman. I pointed this out to you in Comment #87.
I see you don’t want to address this same situation, were you in Martin’s shoes. But I’ll keep in mind that your idea of self defense is that some strange man can indeed hunt you for over five minutes, both in a car and on foot, and if you decide to defend yourself – and perhaps get the upper hand on him – he’s well within his rights to kill you because he feels his own life is in danger.
Let me get this straight. Your position is she’s either an outright liar about something that never happened, or she lying because it was actually her who was the sexual aggressor (not your hero) because of some made up family background you concoct?
And you want kudos for this crap?
Hold your breath…. you’re a sick man. Your assault on what was a young girl’s experiences recounted prove you to be a despicable coward, and unworthy of any respect from me.
To anyone that thinks I’m not giving any “fairness” or “credibility” to Zimmerman… do allow me to point out that we have learned quite a bit about Zimmerman.
A psychological background for Zimmerman’s treatment of women is documented via the FBI interviews, and Zimmerman’s own words on his MySpace page. He has no problem calling a woman a ‘ho, was domineering and controlling over his ex-fiance – even to the details of how she should dress. He stalked her after she left him, and struck her. The man shut off the power to his own mother and put a lock on her electrical panel, for heavens sake.
This is a man with some real problems with those in his close circle of relationships. And depending how long he’s been on Ritalin plus… aka Adderall… this may be really taking a toll on his personality and behavior.
While Zimmerman is mild mannered and polite with acquaintances, he is a different personality in his daily interactions with those in his inner circle. He has an authority and dominance problem… most especially with women. INRE this young cousin, I’ve said it before… sexual abuse is not about sex, it’s about power and authority.
Now if any of you would like to blame this on his domineering mother who supposedly hit him as a child, that’s your choice. Just remember where you learned that trick – the hallmark liberal excuse is to always blame the parents for the child’s, or young man’s, actions. Ergo, Zimmerman has no responsibility for his own actions… either as a child, or now.
Me? This is a no brainer. Zimmerman’s multiple accounts with easily disproved events shown by the dispatcher’s call proves that the man lies as easily as the wind blows. So how do we even know that what Zimmerman told his air marshal friend about his estranged mother, and his supposed abused beaten child past, is even true?
Just a few of the documented lies?
1: “circling” when that was physically impossible in the time elapsed,
2: getting out to look for an address when there were addresses in plain sight on the opposite side of the street,
3: telling police he agreed to meet the PD at his car,
4: telling police he was following the dispatcher’s instructions when following and hunting Martin
5: switching stories about where he finished his dispatcher’s call,
6: that he wasn’t “following” Martin, he was just “going in the same direction”,
7: that the fight for his life occurred more than 40-45’ from where the body was found,
8: that he was “reaching” for a cell phone that he couldn’t remember where he put it just two minutes earlier, but he “forgot” he was wearing a gun – which he tells Hannity he wears all the time – conveniently located right where he was reaching,
9: that he can’t remember the name of one of three streets in a neighborhood he patrols 2-3 times weekly because he has ADHD, but he can remember every detail about the prior teen incident that he starts his story off with as justification for his “suspicions” about Martin
10: that he’s screaming for help for the last 38 seconds before the shot, all at the same time he’s supposedly getting his head bashed repeatedly against concrete and being smothered by Martin’s hands over his nose and his mouth. Funny about how that laceration wasn’t deep enough to support this extended head bashing. Likely he hit his head when he fell, and that’s the end of it. Repeated bashing? Not likely without a concussion, brain injuries, and a lot more and deeper lacerations.
I give Zimmerman the exact credibility he is due based on his own documented words and actions… which is none.
@ilovebeeswarzone:
Oh please. Don’t be so overly dramatic about Z’s injuries. That’s insulting to those of us who know better.
Z had two little cuts to the back of his head. One was 1/4 of an inch long. The other was less than one inch long. Neither of those cuts required stitches. And his supposedly broken nose didn’t require any sort of surgery or medical attention. In fact, overall, Z’s injuries didn’t require any sort of medical attention beyond basic first aid at the scene. You make it sound as if he suffered brain damage.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
In the minutes following the shooting Z was up and about, walking around, carrying on conversations, functioning completely normally.
He didn’t even seek medical attention on the night of the shooting. If his injuries were so severe as to cause all of the issues you want to believe they caused, then why didn’t he go to the hospital?
The truth is that the reason Z can’t be honest has zip, zero, nada, nothing to do with his injuries.
No, the reason he can’t be honest is that the truth about the events of that night don’t fit with what he needs observers to believe about him and those events.
Those of us who are willing and able to dispassionately examine the evidence can see his deception for what it is…deception.
And when Z is undeniably caught in deception, one has to wonder: Why he’s choosing to be deceptive? and what else is he being deceptive about?
From Zimmerman’s EMT on site report:
Extended head-meets-concrete doesn’t result in this minimal of a surface laceration, nor a normal breaking and pulse following the incident. Serino pointed out that he’s seen more than a few head injuries in his time, and Zim’s injuries aren’t consistent with the story.
I’ll also add that Bees’ “brain blood” is laughable. The head and scalp generally bleed profusely, even with shallow cuts or lacerations, because the blood vessels are close to the surface.
@MataHarley:
Yep. As I understand it, that’s the crux of what she wishes to believe.
MATA
WELL WHAT AM I DOING HERE?
YOU GOT THE MOB READY TO HANG HIM, WHY BOTHER WITH THE COURT?
SEND HIM FREE, HE WON’T MAKE IT ALIVE ANYWAY,AND SAVE THE MONEY OF THE TAXPAYERS,
CUT THE MONEY OF THE PROSECUTOR AND THE JUGE AND FUTURE JURY,
WHY SPEND MORE?
YOU KNOW I RELATED THE GUN OWNERSHIP RIGHT NOT THE ZIMMERMAN CASE,
THE MOVIE THEATER DID NOT PERMIT GUN OWNERS TO CARRY, AND THAT IS A MISTAKE COSTING LIVES, IF ONLY AT THE LEAST THEY WOULD HAVE SUPPLY ONE GUARD WHO HAD A GUN MANY LIVES WOULD HAVE BEEN SAVED, THAT WAS MY POINT
AND THE ONLY SIMILARITY WITH ZIMMERMAN IS THAT HE WOULD BE DEAD IF IT WAS NOT FOR HIS GUN, THE OTHER WOULD BE ALIVE,
WHICH ONE YOU DID WANT TO BE ALIVE, IS THERE ANY CHOICE TO MAKE AND DECIDE TO BE KILL BECAUSE ZIMMERMAN WOULD THINK HE IS LESS THAN THE ONE KILLING HIM?
Unlike you, Bees… who does want to set him free without a trial… I support the trial and I see why they are charging murder two. If a jury acquits him, I’m good. If they convict him, I’m also good. That’s the way our system works, and I see no reason why Zimmerman should be given a pass to be above it. And I’m quite fatigued with you and buds, quick with the “lynch” and “hanging” comments just because I support our system, and see why those charges are valid. If there is any “lynching” going on, it’s been by those who have been attacking Martin’s character in order to elevate Zimmerman to the demi-god you’ve made him out to be.
There is *no* similarity between the theater massacre and Zimmerman/Martin. A responsible CCW gun owner pulls his gun out as a last resort of self defense.. which would have been necessary in the theater massacre, but not in a fist fight with a teenager that he, himself, created the conditions for happening. It’s nothing short of wishful hyperbole to suggest that the end of that fist fight would be a dead Zimmerman. These things happen daily, as well as *real* head injuries, and death is not always inevitable. Personally, had Zimmerman done that to me that night, I would have attempted to beat him into unconsciousness for self defense myself.
Zimmerman, as a CCW gun owner is a poster child for the liberals who want stricter gun laws. Here’s a guy who tells Hannity that he carries every day, but tells the CVSA officer that “forgets” he had a gun, has had both restraining orders and a violent charge in his past, plus has admitted he takes regular drugs for ADHD. This guy may be responsible for SYG laws going down nationwide, plus stricter criteria on CCW permits. He’s singlehandedly done irreparable damage to RKBA rights. Thus the reason you don’t see the NRA types out front, supporting Zimmerman.
MATA
I understand your point, I read them again and again to comprehend your side,
and you have to agree that he is alive because he had his gun in this circumstance, you have to agree that the other was out to kill him and he said so. and the witness saw it to,
no I don’t make him demi-god , just a human been there to help the neighborhood,
I have read despicable negatives toward him, but no matter if or who he is and has done,
the trial is only for what he has done at the particular instant he felt threaten to die,
that is the subject to my mind only,
if we elaborate we might want to kill him ourselves if all we read are true, but it would be for not this case and it would be wrong.
Ron H.
come on you gave the unlikes buttons
bring it on
MATA
ANOTHER THOUGHT come to mind on that case alone;
all the break-ins which have rob and scare the community
are responsible for what happen when you dig deep, they all together
contribute to building a death somewhere in the future, and that future came with his bomb
ready , and we have that death, which could have happened any time of any break- in,
but the writing on the wall was there all the time, it could have been done by anybody in those apartments,
sooner or later,
those gangsters who did it, are not getting caught, but
sure as hell TRAYVON IS THE ONE WHO PAID FOR THEIR CRIME. IT’S ON THEIR CONSCIENCE
AYE
on 127
between your measures and mine there are the right measure,
just trying to be funny there
bye
MATA
on 132
you forgot the fist fight was coming from the attacker only,
the other was prevented from using his fist by the attacker locking him down,
with his body weight on him. meaning he had the upper hand,using a certain training
he had learned,
while the other was unable to fight with a fist, therefor only his gun could separate them,
TRAYVON knew that ZIMMERMAN was communicating with
the POLICE, so a stalker don’t do that, beside the big sign
on the ground,telling all he could want to know, why
that man is checking on him.
@ilovebeeswarzone:
The hooded Martin circled the Zimmerman’s vehicle twice, likely at an intimidating close range. Zimmerman’s reaction thereto was to plea with police dispatcher to speed the patrolman on his way. Martin knew Zimmerman had a cellphone. Martin knew Zimmerman used that cellphone to talk to the police. What did Martin hear of those calls that caused him to
fleeretreat? Did Martin discover that a patrolman was on the way?Aye, there’s the rub.
Stalkers of course don’t ring up the police ask for the aid of a patrolman. The whole young Saint-Skittles of Tea and Innocence in fear of a unknown cracker stalker story is naught but a lie. If Dee Dee’s story has any element of truth it is that Martin was in fear but of the patrolman who was on his way.
Aye, there is another rub. Never do the Trayvonistas ask why, as Martin The Innocent knew that Zimmerman was calling for help, why didn’t Martin remove his hood, approach Zimmerman in the car and ask for help himself? Perhaps Martin could have said something like this: Hello sir, I’m real new to the neighborhood. I went out to the 7-11, it’s raining, it’s dark, and now I can’t find my way back home to the Green residence where my dad lives? Can you help me? If Martin was indeed “innocent” and sober, as the Trayvinista’s insist, it seems most likely that one way or another the watchman and/or the patrolman would have es courted young Trayvon Martin safely home in short order.
The Trayvonistas seem to maintain some unspoken presumption which precluded this reasonable course of action on Martin’s part. Perhaps that unspoken presumption is that young gangsta wanna-be’s just don’t behave that way? Nor do they perhaps expect young black men such as Trayvon Martin to act is a neighborly fashion?
I see you still don’t want to substantiate your claim about circling twice in the sphere of physics and reality. I’ve asked. (comment #34) Even asked a second time (comment #104). Yet you dodge, shuck and jive Zimmerman’s conundrum, and still babble about circling. Let’s try again, shall we? Been letting you skate with BS far too long. So I’ll lay this out (again, but this time in more detail) easily for people to understand what Zimmerman’s problems are, based on his own stories.
POINT ONE: Zimmerman’s interview with Serino and Singleton, questioning him where he was during the dialogue in his dispatcher call, reveals the circling is a physical impossibility. Dispatcher time elapsed:
Zimmerman confirms he’s parked at the clubhouse during this above exchange.. then says “I think so”. Singleton points out that he’s passed Martin to park at the clubhouse just before this, so is this is Martin catching up to him there. He confirms. He’d have to, yes? That is if he wants to assert that he ever stopped at the clubhouse to call at all. Zimmerman also confirmed that Martin passed him by while he was at the clubhouse, rounded the corner and that he followed behind Martin in his car… he was never ahead of him… to the Twin Trees location.
Marker – at 1’24”, Zimmerman’s parked in front of the clubhouse on Retreat View Circle (as shown in the reenactment video)
Zimmerman states that Martin does NOT circle his car at the Clubhouse. Nor does he say he was circled on the dispatcher call.
At 2’08″… 42 seconds later…. Zimmerman is parked at the Twin Trees last location and says “shit.. he’s running”. Of course, when Serino asked him to describe the run… a jog? flat out run? fast walk?… Zimmerman could not, or would not, describe and just said “I don’t know”. But of course, with Hannity, he had an epiphany and told Sean that “”he was more … skipping, going away quickly. But he wasn’t running out of fear.” We can add that to the growing list of Zimmerman inconsistencies.
Six seconds after Martin is “skipping” away, Zimmerman is out of his car in pursuit. Another four seconds, and Zimmerman’s fast walk cloth movement (or what he likes to call “wind” on the reenactment video.. LOL) starts and continues until he stops at 2’42”.
That’s 24 seconds of a fast walk away from his car, a distance of about 133 ft to the tree near the N-S death path, where he finishes his dispatcher’s call. He confirms this approximate location on the reenactment video, screws up and later tells the cop he’s on the phone when he gets to the east end of RVC, then again corrects himself as to hanging up at the tee.
In between 1’24” and 2’08”, Zimmerman had to do the drive from the clubhouse to Twin Trees, following Martin. Serino made him clarify that he was never in front of Martin in his car, always behind.
So O’Malley… A little test for your sense and sensibilities.
1: There’s 42 seconds between Martin passing by Zim at the clubhouse on RVC-N, (telling the dispatcher that Martin is “coming to check me out”.) to Martin taking off “skipping”
2: It’s 368′ approximate (Google Earth path measure tool) from from the clubhouse parking spot to where Zimmerman ended up parking by the Twin Trees intersection with the E-W cut thru path
3: Martin was not “running” or “skipping” when Zimmerman was following him in the car. He doesn’t “skip” until he gets to the E-W path, again via Zimmerman himself via his various interviews.
4: In the reenactment video, Zimmerman says that while he’s parked at the Twin Trees location, Martin goes down the path and to the right between the rows, comes back out, walks up the grass, circles his car, then starts to “run”.
5: From the Twin Trees path, around the corner is about 180′. To return to circle the car – *just once* – is another 230′ approx retracing of steps.
6: This means the total distance that Martin had to travel- from the clubhouse, around the corner and back to threateningly circle Zim in his parked car – is a total of about 778 ft. This gets him back to the very location at the Twin Trees and E-W path, where Zim said Martin started “running/skipping”.
7: At no time during this described path was Martin “running” or “skipping” prior to that 2’08” moment, per Zimmerman.
Do you have the distances, facts and time now? All utterings from Mr. Zimmerman himself.
Your task, should you be fool enough to accept it, is to tell us all how Martin made it a total of 778′ – from passing Zim at the clubhouse at 1’24” – to the E-W path, around the corner between the rows of homes, then come back to circle Zimmerman’s car… all in 42 seconds?
HINT: For the larger than life, Herculean Martin to accomplish this Zimmerman concocted fantasy, he needs to be not “running” or “skipping” at a pace of 18 feet per second.
uh… don’t think so.
This means two things… Zimmerman is lying about the circling, just like you are. And it’s also possible that Zimmerman is lying about being parked at the clubhouse at all, and maybe he was always parked at the Twin Trees location. Either way, he’s lying.
The “circling” is a Zimmerman addition in order to make Martin appear threatening, and thereby justify his attempted neighbhorhood heroics in pursuing.
POINT TWO: Reminding you of what you said… …”likely at an intimidating close range. Zimmerman’s reaction thereto was to plea with police dispatcher to speed the patrolman on his way.”
So now you are suggesting, as you’ve done before, that Zimmerman is intimidated by Martin. Too intimidated to roll down his car window, while on the phone with a dispatcher, and ID himself to Martin? If he is so intimidated and scared he can’t even do that from the safety of his car and a gun within his reach, why does he get out of the car to pursue him on foot?
And don’t babble to me about addresses. Not only was his car parked right in front of addresses (row of Twin Trees homes on the south side of the street where he was parked) Zimmerman told his co-workers, and his air marshal pal, that he got out of the car to *follow* Martin the day after the shooting. oops… The address crap is yet another fabrication.
And the street sign is another moment for the gullible. A man who patrols the neighborhood, per the witness statements, 2-3 times weekly, and doesn’t know the name of the three streets? Well, Zim had an answer for that lie too… he told the CVSA officer he couldn’t remember the name of the street because of his ADHD. (Maybe that’s why he also told that officer he “forgot” he was carrying a gun??? LOL)
The problem with Zimmerman is he’s a chronic liar, and these are only a few of the lies exposed. There is a larger list beyond this. It doesn’t involve witnesses or speculation. It’s all George, and using only George’s words and various stories. Thus he has a serious credibility problem.
Then, of course, there’s that pesky problem of the bullet holes in the hoodie and inner shirt lining up perfectly together, but they aren’t lining up with the bullet entry wound on the body. It seems that the two shirts were being clutched, and was pulled down when the barrel was pressed into Martin’s chest. Since Zimmerman, himself (via CVSA story), says that Martin’s hands were (one) on his nose, and (the other) going down his side to go for his gun, we know that Martin wasn’t grabbing his own shirts.
On the other hand, Zimmerman tells the CVSA officer, and demonstrates, that he drew his gun, and detailed that he extended it beyond his hand.. and that he was very careful to do so. (of course, he told his air marshal bud that his elbow was on the ground when he shot… sigh).
With the bullet holes misalignment, what Zimmerman demonstrates in his CVSA video account is that he was grabbing Martin’s shirts, restraining and pulling him towards him with one hand, while he drew his gun with the other, extended the gun beyond his hand clutching the shirts to “aim” and fire into Martin’s chest. He wanted to be careful not to shoot his own hand grabbing Martin, and pulling him towards him and into the gun.
This also means that if Martin were mounted on Zimmerman, he wasn’t putting the full weight of his body and leaning towards his face, as Zimmerman says. For the shirts to be pulled down to align with the body entry wound, Martin would have to be sitting upright, pulling back and up, while Zimmerman was clutching his shirts, pulling the opposite way (towards him and down) to stop him from getting away. Otherwise there is no way to explain the alignment between clothing and body.
Speaking of pesky problems, ol’ George has yet to explain how this fight for his life that happened at the tee, or just south a few feet by that first tree (reenactment video), can be so far from where the body was found 45′ or so south. That’s one heck of a “push” to get the body off, eh?
Forensics, evidence and his own words… it ain’t working out for ol’ George and his fables.
@MataHarley:
Hello sir, I’m real new to the neighborhood. I went out to the 7-11, it’s raining, it’s dark, and now I can’t find my way back home to the Green residence where my dad lives. Can you help me?
Still babbling in order to distract, O’malley? Exactly when did Martin circle Zimmerman’s car during that dispatcher’s call? And if Zim was too intimidated or scared to roll down the window and identify himself as the neighborhood watch from the safety of his car – while on the phone with the police dispatcher, PLUS having a gun – why did he get out of the car to pursue that scary individual who wasn’t doing anything wrong?
Come on, Mike. You’re the big guy with all the answers. Clean up your mess on aisle 9.
@MataHarley:
Now Mata…you don’t really expect O’Malley to answer do you?
He has a long history of doing the duck, dodge, shuck, and jive tap dance routine when the questions become tough or inconvenient to his argument.
He’d rather focus on why it would have been a really swell idea for Martin to approach this guy who was persistently following him in the darkness. After all, it’s not like this strange man who was following him just might have had a gun with which to shoot him in the chest and kill him.
@MataHarley:
Thank you for your extended reply MataHarley.
I’m unwilling to invest in your timeline reconstructions MataHarley because I find that you regularly omitted important information and facts, that do not fit your narrative, when you discuss the Martin-Zimmerman incident. I have tried to addressed this with you several times. You may recall my repeated comparisons of your omissions to that of prosecutor Angela Corey.
I do however often verify information you provide that is contrary to what I’ve gathered. There I find you more helpful. For instance you were correct, George Zimmerman did put his cellphone in his pocket so that, at the moment he struck, Trayvon Martin would have observed a flashlight in one of Zimmerman’s hands and the other hand empty. What you refuse to admit into consideration is the preponderance of evidence indicating the Martin observed and knew of Zimmerman’s cellphone. I recall no evidence, at least no objective evidence you have provided indicating that Martin was aware of Zimmerman’s gun until Martin was sitting on top of Zimmerman and beating Zimmerman. Similarly MataHarley, maybe I missed it but I do not recall that you have provided evidence suggesting that Martin might reasonably have expected that Zimmerman was then in possession of a firearm at the time Martin struck.
As for be-hooded Martin twice circling Zimmerman’s vehicle, I learned of that from Curt by way of his postings and links to TalkLeft and Conservative Treehouse.
But aye, there’s the rub. Whether Martin circled Zimmerman’s vehicle once or twice has little effect on the points I was trying to make at #138 above.
Stalkers of course don’t ring up the police ask for the aid of a patrolman. The whole young Saint-Skittles of Tea and Innocence in fear of a unknown cracker stalker story is naught but a lie. If Dee Dee’s story has any element of truth it is that Martin was in fear but of the patrolman who was on his way.
Martin The Innocent knew that Zimmerman was calling for help, why didn’t Martin remove his hood, approach Zimmerman in the car and ask for help himself? Perhaps Martin could have said something like this: Hello sir, I’m real new to the neighborhood. I went out to the 7-11, it’s raining, it’s dark, and now I can’t find my way back home to the Green residence where my dad lives? Can you help me? If Martin was indeed “innocent” and sober, as the anti-Zimmermanists insist, it seems most likely that one way or another the watchman and/or the patrolman would have escorted young Trayvon Martin safely home in short order.
The anti-Zimmermanists seem to maintain some unspoken presumption which precludes this reasonable course of action on Martin’s part. Perhaps that unspoken presumption is that young gangsta wanna-be’s just don’t behave that way? Nor do they perhaps expect young black men such as Trayvon Martin to act is a prudent neighborly fashion?
Decades ago during the era of Jim Crowe, when a young Black male could actually get himself killed in the wrong neighborhood by a rogue racist White cop, African American fathers taught their sons how to politely deescalate dangerous confrontations with White authority figures. Time has moved on and now a young man with a Cripped out father has died because he was unable to navigate an innocent neighborhood incident with a Afro-Peruian Hispanic watchman, a neighbor. The cult of the hoodie obscures underlying truth, does it not?
@Mike O’Malley observations:
The flashlight wasn’t working… per Zimmerman. Why would he be holding a flashlight that didn’t work? duh.. Nor do you know what Zim had in his hands because he has never said. Making it up as you go along.
What “preponderance of evidence” would that be? uh… none. Making this up as you go along.
Of course, you again are making things up as you go along. I never said that Martin was aware of Zimmerman’s gun. In fact, we don’t know that Martin was aware of Zimmerman’s gun at any time prior to Zim shooting him, save for Zim’s bogus and incredible variations of events.
What I said… take this in slowly… is that after a guy follows you, hunts you, all for five minutes or more, then, when you speak to him “reaches” for something in his pockets, it is a very threatening move. Precisely the same movement that got an Anaheim suspect shot last week by police. Martin, already victimized by a hunting Zim, would have no reason to think he was pulling out a peace offering.
So the dodge, shuck and jive continues… only now you want to blame your lack of curiosity in the evidence and physical possibilities on the dribblings of others. Either it was possible for Martin to circle Zim’s car as he says, or it wasn’t. Tell us how that was possible, Mike. Or stop parroting it like it’s a fact.
Of course not. Responsible neighborhood watch people call either 911 or the NEN, and don’t get out of their car to stalk and continue to hunt.
You’re making this up as you go along again. There is no evidence that Martin was aware Zim was on the phone save for the PD, attempting to play good cop/bad cop with Zim. They did the same when they told him that Martin had a video of the event. All that was prior to the release of Dee’s full statement.
And twice you’ve mentioned the hood on a sweatshirt. What is this bias you seem to have against sweatshirt that have hoods, and are used? Have several myself, and that is a clothing feature I’ve used often. Guess I should watch myself around people like you.
So, again according to you, this is Martin’s fault again. Martin knew where he was going. Why should he ask someone sitting in a car anything?
He was innocent of doing any criminal actions that evening, and the toxicology levels prove that he was not under the influence of THC at that time. He needed no escort, and needed to ask no questions. This insistence about being on drugs is simply another desperate lie you parrot, like the circling. Nor did he need an “escort” anywhere because he knew exactly where he was going.
The rest of your hyperbole is more of the usual trial of Martin’s character. Again I will say, Martin is the victim, and is not the person being tried for murder two. I am not anti-Zimmerman. I am pro US judicial system. Zimmerman’s story stinks as it is, and it’s up to a jury to sort it out. You, apparently, believe that Zimmerman should be elevated above our laws because you’ve decided you don’t like Martin.
Someone has a very odd perspective here, and it sure isn’t me.
@ Mata Harley
I see your reasoning and appreciate the effort you have put into placing the protagonists into a timeline. What I can’t get past is that until the first punch landed the whole thing was a misunderstanding of intent on both parts. Another aspect I believe not considered, is that minor brain trauma can produce reduced consciousness while allowing normal function. “Getting your bell rung”, can do that. I’ve had that happen twice, I could tell you what town/stadium I as was in the next day,but anything after the hit was a blank, including the exact location.
brian winkler
hi,
yes I do believe what you said, and even one who drink too much will the day after get
the lapsus of memories,
so even more if your head was bash repeatedly on a concrete edge,, is to be expected to happen, all in different degrees
bye
@MataHarley:
As time permits I will return to address your extended response MataHarley. We can start here though:
One wonders just what did I make up in your quote of me above? Nor do I recall stating the you MataHarley “said that Martin was aware of Zimmerman’s gun”. If I indeed made such a claim please show me where I did so. Review what I wrote in my #143 above and find that I did not claim in #143 you MataHarley “said that Martin was aware of Zimmerman’s gun”.
From your response I gather that we have come to a place of agreement. It may be a small place but it seems we agree that there is no evidence, at least no objective evidence, that Martin was aware of Zimmerman’s gun until Martin was sitting on top of Zimmerman and beating Zimmerman.
.
Now MataHarley tell us, is there objective evidence for the condition of Trayvon Martin’s mind at the moment when George Zimmerman reached for his cellphone and Martin struck his first blow? Moreover specifically, what objective evidence is there that Trayvon Martin thought or was in fear of Zimmerman reaching for a gun? Please provide such objective evidence you have.
.
It would then appear that the good citizens of Anaheim strongly disagree with you about whether or not reaching into one’s pockets is a very threatening move, no? The US Department of Justice likewise appears to disagree with you about whether or not reaching into one’s pockets is a very threatening move 😉
.
BTW: no minor point here. In both the 2009 and 2012 Anaheim shootings the Anaheim police claimed that both men were reaching into their waistbands not into their pockets. The information you provide MataHarley needs to be more accurate for it to be reliable. Young men have been known to carry guns in their wastebands and cellphones in their pockets. Young men are NOT known to carry guns in their pockets and cellphones in their wastebands.
Mike O’Malley
hi, IT COULD HAVE BEEN SAID, ABOUT THE GUN ACKNOWLEDGEMENT BY TRAYVON,
at the very first post on the subject or those who followed, it might have been me , which was assuming and building a scenario as it could have been other too,
simply because we where building a case with just a few news coming out a bite at a time,
we where evolving and discussing the case on our own guts feeling as logicly as we could, and that all before the other news came, some also assuming like we did,
then more facts started to arrive, and we all worked on it to understand each minute details,
and taking stand for or against, meaning guilty or innocent, the two camps where rigorously keeping informed on the post new bits,
I vaguely remember that gun matter being on the table, but with all the different POSTS SPROUTING OUT, IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE AND A LONG TIME TO FIND THE EXACT COMMENT, AND IT’S SOURCE BEING LEGIT OR ASSUMED
BYE
What on earth does the federal DOJ have to do with this, O’Malley? Unless it’s a federal jurisdictional killing by federal officers, it’s a matter of State charges, as most are. And of course the reason you can provide no links or cases supporting your babble is because what you say above is patently false.
Atlanta LEO, Reginald Miller, was acquitted of shooting Tramaine Miller in the face because “he saw Miller reach beneath his seat and grab something that he mistook for a gun.” That’s not a waistband either… it was a threatening movement.
Then there is Amadou Diallo, who reached into his pocket and was shot by NYC police… who were later acquitted.
Police in Vallejo recently shot a man who refused to pull over during a routine traffic stop, and made the error or reaching into his pocket.
News and courts are filled with such incidents, O’Malley. It’s a pathetic defense to suggest the movement is not threatening – whether it’s a pocket, a waistband or under a car seat – in the aftermath of five minutes of following and hunting, merely because it wasn’t a reach into a “waistband”. Martin had no reason to believe, based on Zimmerman’s aggressive action for an elongated period of time, that he was pulling out a peace offering.
@MataHarley:
Recall Mata we have on several occasions discussed how you leave, what are for you, undesirable facts on the editing room floor much the Angela Corey does when prosecuting the Zimmermans.
Here are other practices I find of yours that are problematic when you write about the Zimmermans. At #144 above you employed a misleading term so as to further the prosecution of George Zimmerman. As I said this is no minor point. In both the 2009 and 2012 Anaheim shootings the Anaheim police claimed that both men were reaching into their waistbands not into their pockets. The information you provide MataHarley needs to be more accurate for it to be reliable. Young men have been known to carry guns in their wastebands and cellphones in their pockets. Young men are NOT known to carry guns in their pockets and cellphones in their wastebands.
Also, it should be obvious to any fair minded person that the five examples you have provided from Anaheim, Atlanta, NYC and Vallejo are obviously inapplicable here. Moreover the popular protests in the Anaheim and NYC incident obviously undermine your point. It seems that many African Americans and others do not believe the reaching into ones pocket or wasteband for that matter is “a very threatening” act. [At least where the man with the reach is not named Zimmerman.]
I’m going to post this and follow-up on #149 as time allows too. But Mata these are among a few examples of the highly problematic way you select and deploy information to prosecute George Zimmerman.
@MataHarley:
Here again like Angela Corey you leave information about important evidence on the editing room floor. You say nothing about the second flashlight. Two of George Zimmerman’s flashlights were recovered on the grass at the scene of the attack. Both appear to have been flung aside when Martin decked Zimmerman. Why did not you tell us about this MataHarley? Evidence photo of item #5 is of a moderate size black flashlight with a carrying cord attached. Would this not be the flashlight that George Zimmerman said was not working? The other flashlight is a smaller key-chain flashlight. This flashlight can be seen in evidence photo of item #1 on the grass still attached to the keys to George Zimmerman’s vehicle.
Now Mata need one ask why might George Zimmerman be holding a less adequate flashlight and his attached car keys as he returned to his vehicle?
I’m well aware of all of the evidence, and of the debris path. So while you want to pompously lecture me about leaving out details, which I don’t (pointing out evidence and timelines), you instead make things up and continue your shuck, dodge a jive dance. Take this statement alone as a perfect example:
sigh… the keychain flashlight was found a few feet south of the tee where Zimmerman insists that Martin “decked” him. But Martin’s body, his cell and the tactical flashlight belonging to Zimmerman were found 45′ or more south of that. If Zim were decked, and engaged in the fight for his life where he says he was (at the tee) – screaming for help the last 38 seconds… all while his head was supposedly being pounded into the sidewalk and his nose and mouth covered “suffocating” him… pray tell how did the body and the tactical flashlight end up so far south on that pathway?
Pesky details that get in the way of Zim’s credibility.
Point is, you can’t reconcile Zim’s “circling” lies, you can’t explain away that Zim doesn’t detail how they ended so far south from where he says he fought for his life. You don’t want to accept why the bullet holes in Martin’s inner and outer shirts align perfectly, but are a good 2.5 to 3.5 inches above the entry wound on the body.
This trial is necessary because the stories don’t match the time elapsed and the forensic evidence. Get over it.
@MataHarley:
So then Mataharley what I observed and said about your response to me was accurate, was it not?
Again like Angela Corey you left information about important evidence on the editing room floor. You said nothing about the second flashlight until I brought it up in post #151. Two of George Zimmerman’s flashlights were recovered on the grass at the scene of the attack. Both appear to have been flung aside when Martin decked Zimmerman. Why did not you tell us about this before I brought it up in post #151, MataHarley? Evidence photo of item #5 is of a moderate size black flashlight with a carrying cord attached. Would this not be the flashlight that George Zimmerman said was not working? The other flashlight is a smaller key-chain flashlight. This flashlight can be seen in evidence photo of item #1 on the grass still attached to the keys to George Zimmerman’s vehicle.
This was our earlier exchange:
You left information about important evidence on the editing room floor.