Ace @ Ace of Spades HQ:
fter explaining Wade Page’s link to violent, racist groups, Good Morning America co-host George Stephanopoulos wondered how Page could have purchased a gun, Ross insisted that the FBI did not have “enough evidence to open a full field investigation because of his links to these right-wing, neo-Nazi groups.”
Note the media never calls the black bloc anarchists, or the Occupy cop-car shitters, “left-wing.” They get called — besides being called “mostly peaceful,” of course — specifically what they are, be it anarchists or vandals.
You nazis are funny. Who does this sound like?-
“Social Justice for White Working Class people…..
We demand equality of rights for the American people in its dealings with other nations, and the revocation of the United Nations, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, the World Bank, the North American Free Trade Agreement, the World Trade Organization, and the International Monetary Fund. …The restructuring of social security and welfare to include drug testing for welfare recipients…All non-White immigration must be prevented. We demand that all non-Whites currently residing in America be required to leave the nation forthwith and return to their land of origin: peacefully or by force…. We demand the right to bear arms for law-abiding citizens….The right to vote on the State government and legislation shall be enjoyed by citizens of the state alone….We demand the legal prosecution of all those tendencies in art and literature which corrupt our national life, and the suppression of cultural events which violate this demand. …By creating conditions to make possible the reestablishment of the nuclear family in which the father works while the mother stays at home and takes care of the children if they so choose.”
All ideas based on Hitler, according to the experts here and on other white suprematist websites.
It gets better! Does this sound like the right wing of today? This link IS NOT to a neo-nazi site. I included the authors since some want to play the “appeal to authority game.”
http://www.ohioswallow.com/book/How+Green+Were+the+Nazis%3F
Well what do you know? heidegger makes an appearance on environmentalism.
http://gulagbound.com/17582/the-green-nazi-deep-ecology-of-martin-heidegger/
More links between enrironmentalism and nazis.
http://www.quadrant.org.au/magazine/issue/2012/7-8/the-roots-of-green-politics-in-german-romanticism
http://www.aim.org/aim-report/hitlers-green-killing-machine/
This link certainly sounds like today’s anti-Capitalist left.
Ummmm brian, who was talking about “this century”? Hint: It was you. You tried moving the goalposts trollboy, and just got them shoved where the sun doesn’t shine.
@Hard Right:
Actually this sounds like a bunch of right-wingers trying to make out that the nazis were leftist. You make up a fantasy and then point to it to prove your point.
You claim that the Aryan Nation and the National Alliance and Stormfront are all liberal leftist? You really are pathetic. Quote some more bs that proves that you guys are trying to distance yourselves from your right-wing nazi nut brethern, but which changes nothing.
@Hard Right:
I was quoting YOU and what YOU posted, and you see that as me moving the goalposts? Man….. and quit thinking about my azz.
I have posted many quotes and a links. Yet you come back with, “nuh uh”. Go away little troll boy. Your testicles have not descended and you don’t belong here with the intelligent people.
@Hard Right:
I quote YOU, and you say it’s “nuh uh”. Agreed.
And now you’re dreaming of my testicles…dude…come out of the nazi closet already.
(though “Hard Right” as a name suddenly makes a whole lot more sense)
More still.
Oh. and here is your quote brian.
So you went from the nazis of the past when it was proven they were a type of socialist, to modern nazis where you tried to move the goalposts.
So I post the statements of modern nazis and then you try to go back to the nazis of Germany. Really, you make it too easy and show how mentally ill you are, dishonest, or both.
You modern nazis brought up the nazis from the past to show how different you are now, even though so many of the nazi quotes you have memorized reflect right-wing wetdreams. You keep talking about Hitler. The right-wing nazi nut from this century who shot the non-Christians, now that is mentally ill, but you wouldn;t recognize that, not in one of your own.
Yawn. Another hate based ad homenim attack because you can’t disprove what has been posted. Have a good night you leftist troll.
@Hard Right:
I use your quotes, the ones you provide, and that is trolling, and whatever else babies cry about.
Someone disagrees with you = troll.
Now that is some gutsy, tough intellectual stance.
Good night to you, conservative scholar and right-wing genius.
@Brian Miller:
Hey Brian…would you consider FDR to have been a Leftist or a Right wing conservative?
@Aye:
nothing to do with the article, but then I’m used to the posts here being that way but -“Hey Brian…would you consider FDR to have been a Leftist or a Right wing conservative? ”
I would consider someone who was elected President that many times to be somewhere in the midst of the American electorate, neither far extreme, a liberal conservative (though extremism is the only way some people can see things).
@Ron H.: @retire05:
We have found the dog whistle in Ron H.’s selection. Now let us take a page from Sherlock Holmes and find the dog that didn’t bark.
The question at hand is: were the Nazis socialists? the question at hand is not: were the Nazis Marxists?
David Weinfeld compares the German Nazis to Soviet Marxists, which is a polemical artifact from the 1920’s and 1930’s. However during the 20th century Germany fielded several socialist parties notably including the Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands (Social Democratic Party of Germany), or SPD. The SPD is today a full member party of the Party of European Socialists and the Socialist International. It is Germany’s oldest political party, established in 1875, in the German Parliament.
David Weinfeld goes on confusing fascism with Nazism and writes:
Clearly Germany’s other socialist party did not completely take over all large businesses and industries either when it came to power in the post WW-II era. Clearly businesses in socialist welfare states like SPD’s Germany are not necessarily government owned, and can to some degree function within a market-oriented capitalist framework subject to the laws of supply and demand.
That is the dog that didn’t bark!
David Weinfeld’s essay is constructed of a Straw Man.
Straw man
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
@Mike O’Malley:
Someday Mikey you will find that proof you so long for, sure……….
Mikey, before he goes off on his rant- “The question at hand is:….”
And now, back to the question at hand- “After explaining Wade Pageâ��s link to violent, racist groups, Good Morning America co-host George Stephanopoulos wondered how Page could have purchased a gun, Ross insisted that the FBI did not have â��enough evidence to open a full field investigation because of his links to these right-wing, neo-Nazi groups. Note the media never calls the black bloc anarchists, or the Occupy cop-car shitters, â��left-wing.â�� They get called â�� besides being called â��mostly peaceful,â�� of course â�� specifically what they are, be it anarchists or vandals.”
@Ron H.: @retire05:
Our
deconstructiondemolition of Dr. David Weinfeld’s essay continues. We have seen Dr. Weinfeld: begged the question, employed circular reasoning and use Straw Man argument. Now we will find Dr. Weinfeld’s Red Herring. We also find more and more factual errors and omission. One is left to wonder not just from where Dr. Weinfeld earned his doctorate in history but how such an intellectual hack was admitted to an advanced post graduate program to begin with!.
Red Herring
Explanation
The red herring is as much a debate tactic as it is a logical fallacy. It is a fallacy of distraction, and is committed when a listener attempts to divert an arguer from his argument by introducing another topic. This can be one of the most frustrating, and effective, fallacies to observe.
The fallacy gets its name from fox hunting, specifically from the practice of using smoked herrings, which are red, to distract hounds from the scent of their quarry. Just as a hound may be prevented from catching a fox by distracting it with a red herring, so an arguer may be prevented from proving his point by distracting him with a tangential issue.
Example
Many of the fallacies of relevance can take red herring form. An appeal to pity, for example, can be used to distract from the issue at hand:
“You may think that he cheated on the test, but look at the poor little thing! How would he feel if you made him sit it again?”
http://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevance/red-herring/
@Ron H.: @retire05:
http://phdoctopus.com/2012/04/22/nazism-and-fascism-were-ideologies-of-the-right/
Whether or not the Nazis divided Germans or the human race on other than class lines is irrelevant to whether the Nazis or anyone for that matter were/are socialists. What matters is whether Nazi ideology and Nazi political/economic practice sought to create a socialist welfare state. This is Dr. Weinberg’s Red Herring.
Like any biased polemicist Dr, Weinfeld assures his readers that:
However like any biased polemicist that is exactly what Dr, Weinfeld intends to do. Otherwise he would not have framed his essay as an attack of that decades old bogeymen of the left: ” right-wing talk radio”.
One might note that Russian Soviet apparatchiks earned a bad reputation in Black Africa because they were unable to conceal their contempt for African blacks whom they viewed as inferior. Russian Soviet apparatchiks and military personal divided Soviet society along a Russian vs: Ukrainian and Baltic, German Russian ethnic divides. Chinese socialism also maintains and promotes a Han vs. non-ethnic Han divide with Tibetians an Uigers as victims of acts of genocide.
Dr. Weinberg equates Fascism and Nazism. Italian Fascism notably did not maintain the same racial antisemitic ideological policies as did the Nazis. As Dorothy Rabbinowitz of Wall Street Journal Editorial Broad used to point out the Italian Fascist Army over and over again refused to assist in the Nazi round ups of Jews. The Italian Fascist Army had a pat rebuke of the German Nazis; they said rounding up Jews for the death camps “is beneath the dignity of the Italian Army”!
The Italian Fascist Army was in fact the only military in Europe that actually engaged in large scale military action with the sole purpose of RESCUING Jews. In particular in France the Italian Fascist Army forcibly prohibited collaborationist French police from shipping thousands of Jewish children to the Nazi death camps. Which bring up a topic that I doubt Dr. Weinberg wishes to address. During the Nazi occupation of France many French socialists collaborated with the Nazis and shared the Nazis antisemitism and the continue to do today.
Mike O’Malley
hi,
I see, that OBAMA USED THAT along the black propaganda, we just have to remember the mentality of many, naming one teacher saying to the class in majority black;
they are not like us, and other words to incite the young, which end up torching one boy 13 years,
just because he was white, and more other stories telling of the same wide spread mindset, being allowed to be fed to the young teens,
I think it could be a mindset of a leader who fear and is not comfortable with his position because he is lacking ability to lead and want to to grasp control he would like as a HITLER PURSUE EXTREME MEASURES
we also must keep in mind the same influence on OBAMA from the MUSLIMS, HAD BEEN STRONG ON HITLER and played the big part in the acceleration of the extermination of the JEWISH PEOPLE,
GIVING THE WORLD THEIR HOLOCAUST MASTERMIND BY BOTH HITLER AND
HIS COZY FRIENDS THE MUSLIMS.
doesn’t it make you think of the danger of four more years with OBAMA IN POWER COZY WITH HIS FRIENDS IN THE WHITE HOUSE, AND THEIR MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD, HE IS HE HAD HE WILL CONTINUE TO HELP THEM GAINING DANGEROUS POWER
under the cover of his position,
yes dangerous
FOR THIS AMERICA
@Mike O’Malley:
“The red herring is as much a debate tactic as it is a logical fallacy. It is a fallacy of distraction, and is committed when a listener attempts to divert an arguer from his argument by introducing another topic.”
Hey Mikey, speaking of……how about that right-wing nazi nut who shot up the SiKh temple. Ya know, what the article is about, not what you drag out as, how you say, red herrings.
@Mike O’Malley:
“Whether or not the Nazis divided Germans or the human race on other than class lines is irrelevant to whether the Nazis or anyone for that matter were/are socialists.”
Yeah, it didn’t matter if you were a Jew or Gypsie to the Nazis, according to the expert here….
I bet the Jews and Gypsies wish they were as insightful as Mikey here is with the Nazis…….
@Brian Miller:
How embarrassing for you again Brian. You see my posts have been right on topic. We find this is so by checking the discussion at Ace-of-Spades-Hdqrs. linked in Curt’s opening post above. I’ll quote:
@Brian Miller:
One of your logical falacies here is
.
According to your reasoning it would not matter if one were a Nazi or an Italian Fascist general who refused to round up Jews for the Nazis?
Moreover you why limit your appeal to emotions to Jews and Gypsies? The Nazi’s also treated racial groups such as Czechs, Slovaks, Serbians, Poles, Russians and Ukrainians with genocidal intent and deed. The Nazi’s killed quite a number of Greeks. The Turkish Caliphate likewise treat Czechs, Slovaks, Serbians, Poles, Russians, Ukrainians, Greeks, Jews, Armenians, Chaldeans, Aramians and others with genocidal intent and deed. However, the Third Reich’s mistreatment of , Czechs, Slovaks, Serbians, Poles, Russians, Ukrainians, Greeks, Jews and Gypsies is as irrelevant to the question of whether of not the Third Reich was a Socialist welfare state as the 20th century’s genocidal mistreatment of Czechs, Slovaks, Serbians, Poles, Russians, Ukrainians, Greeks, Jews, , Armenians, Chaldeans, Aramians and others are relevant to a question about whether the 20th Century Third Reich and Turkish Caliphate were modern industrialized states.