American Muslims: Identity 10 yrs after 9/11

Wordsmith I appreciate your article, but the hatred for Islamism is not unfounded. I feel for those that are true Muslims and are caught up in the whirlwind of labeling! Do you know what the word “Muslim” means? It means one who believes and follows the way of One God. Americans are very uneducated concerning the matter of who is who in Islam! Shiites do not go to the Mizgad for prayer, but rather for brainwashing ! while the Sunni’s and several others do study the Koran and prayer. Shameful enough the later is not the type of Islam favored by our Administration! The Clinton Administration was the biggest contributor to populating America with prospective Terrorist which lead to the 9/11 attack. They also helped the Shiite type of Islamics to take control of Islamic education here in the States. Islam is a very different world of mentalities that is a study to itself! How ever “true Muslims” are very warm and intelligent people! I have many who are my friends and business associates. However we should be clear to understand that the groups like she groups like the Obama and Clinton administration loves to entertain and recruit are not even considered as true Muslims by the older factions of Islam. The Shiites, and their off springs along with the Palestinians, Fatah , Hamas, and Hezballah are not Fundamentalist but rather fanatical fatalist! (you know the ones our government supports)
I as a Jew understand the faces of hatred and prejudice, although the hatred of some Muslims is understandable as well as it is not always justified! It is always best to be able to understand who you are talking to before you draw lines! If we could ever get Liberals to apply that concept to their thinking and rational they would self terminate in a short time! The Hallmark of a Liberal (socialist /communist) is to label and separate without ever understanding who or what the person is!

Fawaz’s choice to return to his original name reminds me of another who did the same — Barry Soetoro.

I wonder — what were Barry’s underlying reasons for returning to Barack Hussein Obama?

@JV Hoffman (#7)

Dear Mr. Hoffman,

I am sorry that I offended you. I fear that you did not understand the points that I was trying to make. On this particular thread, someone made the point that average Muslims felt hostility and resentment. Someone else made the point that Jews also feel resentment. To wit:

“When I was in public school I learned all of the nasty ways white kids could label me for my Jewish blood” (comment #1)

.

It was in the context of the thread about Muslims that the comparison with Jews was being made. I will argue that the degree of current resentment towards Jews in current day America is a fraction of what it was in the 1920s and 1930s, when my father was growing up and even much smaller than it was in the 1950s and 1960s, when I was growing up. But it still does exist, at least in the minds of Jews, such as the commenter on the current Flopping Aces thread who raised the issue, again in the context of a discussion about resentment directed against Muslims.

In my reply, I pointed out the reasons for these accurate observations (i.e. that Muslims are greatly resented and Jews are still somewhat resented). The reasons are very different, as I tried to explain. If you agree that some resentment does exist, then I’d like to hear your explanation of why you feel that this resentment exists. I happen to think that it has virtually nothing to do with so-called “Christ killing,” as I’ll expand upon, further. Let a true anti-Semite offer his explanation (albeit in a satirical fashion):

Mel Gibson’s address to the General Assembly (of Hollywood Jews)

http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=16785

Quote (by Mel Gibson):

I would like to close my address by apologizing once more for my recent behavior. I have reached out to as many Jews in Hollywood as I can: Alan Horn, Joe Roth, Steven Spielberg, Brad Grey, Stacey Snider, Jeffrey Katzenberg, David Geffen, Joel Silver, Ron Meyer, Amy Pascal, Tom Rothman, Gail Berman … Jesus Christ, you Jews really do run Hollywood!

You went to some pains to describe your family background. Let me tell you a little about mine. I’m 1/2 “pure blooded” Jew and 1/2 “pure blooded” Finn (i.e. where a “Finn” is someone from Finland). This has given me the opportunity to compare what it means to be Jewish, on one hand, and Finnish, on the other hand. This is of central relevance to the points I shall make. I’m equally proud of both “halves,” by the way.

First, let me tell you a little more about my Jewish half. My father’s name is Gary Weisenthal. He’s 97 years old and still very active. Among a great many other things, he holds the world record for the 200 meter (long course) backstroke in the age 95-99 division of world masters swimming. Here’s a two minute video I shot of him, just one month ago:

Here’s a photo of him and me, when I was 11 (taken at one of those 4 pictures for $1 photo booths, at the Edgewater Amusement park in Detroit:

Here’s a photo of my Dad, with his Israeli Army official discharge papers, just upon his return from his service in Israel during the 1973 Yom Kippur War. Other American Jews donated money. He gave of himself. He was 60 years old at the time.

Here’s another photo I took at the same time, depicting a map of the region and also several Israeli soldier death announcements (the signs in Hebrew) which were posted in public places during the war, to announce the deaths.

Here’s a cartoon/caricature which was part of a large poster, which was a collage of some of the events in my father’s life, which was presented to him by a group of co-workers and friends, at his retirement party from his job as a heavy truck design engineer for the Ford Motor Company. During WWII, he designed tanks for Chrysler (an important defense contractor later rescued by Presidents Bush and Obama), prior to his enlistment in the US Navy. The poster is a caricature of his mission during the Yom Kippur War, which was to drive a heavy truck, delivering supplies and equipment, all over Israel.

Here’s a photo of my Dad and I, taken in September, 2009, on an English Channel ferry, returning us to Dover, following a visit to Dunkirk. This was part of a trip where we had the happiness to support my daughter (his granddaughter) when she swam across the English Channel in the 31st fastest time in history, men and women, out of the nearly 1500 people who’ve successfully completed the swim.

Here’s the cover of a book, given to me (and written by) my cousin, the late Simon Wiesenthal, also know as the “Nazi Hunter” who tracked and located Adolph Eichmann and Klaus Barbee.

His life was chronicled in the film: Murderers Among Us (starring Ben Kingley) and the Museum of Tolerance in Los Angeles is named in his honor. Here’s a description of the book.

Here’s a handwritten inscription, written by Simon Wiesenthal and addressed personally to me, in an inside cover page of the book. I didn’t ask for this. The book and inscription arrived, unexpectedly, in the mail (sent by him from Vienna), a couple weeks after I’d spoken to him on the telephone (I never met him in person).

Now, I won’t go into this type of detail regarding regarding my “other half” (the Finnish half), but I would like to make the following observations:

First, anti-Semitism, in modern day America, exists at very low levels. I can tell you this for a fact, because I am 64 years old, have a Jewish name, and virtually everyone to whom I am introduced thinks that I’m Jewish. I have been asked more times than I can possibly recall, “are you related to Simon Wiesenthal” or “are you related to the Nazi hunter?” Most people, in fact, misspell my name in letters and emails, calling me “Larry Wiesenthal.” I don’t bother to “correct” them. It’s actually an advantage, in my occupation. Jewish doctors have a well deserved reputation for competence and having people consider me Jewish actually gives me a leg up. But I have obviously come into contact will all manner of people in my life. They think I’m Jewish, but I’ve never encountered any problems at all.

In the whole of my life, I’ve had precisely 2 (two) anti-Semitic episodes, directed at me. Some years back, I received a hand written piece of “hate mail.” It was upsetting, but it was once in my life and nothing ever happened. On one other occasion, about 10 years ago, I got a phone call at 2 AM from a couple of drunks who tried to get my dander up by making anti-Jewish remarks. I just let them talk, not saying a word. After awhile they actually panicked. One of them said “he’s probably having the call traced.” They immediately hung up.

After 63 1/2 years. that’s it, for me, anti-Semitism-wise. I don’t challenge other (“full-blooded”) Jews, who claim that virulent anti-Semitism still does exist, to some degree, as expressed in comment #1.

What is the real cause of anti-Semitism? Well, some of it is the old “Christ killer” stuff, but that’s not the big issue.

I’ve written about this before, on other blogs. I would like to write plainly to you, and not have to be constrained by being politically correct. Basically, Jews want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to be a closed, tribal society; they want success, in all of its manifestations, and they are spectacularly good at achieving this success. And they never want human nature to intrude on them — in the form of frank resentment.

I’m half Finnish-Protestant and half Jewish. What’s the difference? Firstly, religion wise, ANYONE can be a Protestant. Protestants welcome newcomers to their midst with open arms. They have outreach programs to invite outsiders to join their communities. There are no hoops to jump through, even. Just join a church and you are immediately welcomed as a part of the community. You aren’t required to even go to classes or counseling sessions or anything else, if you don’t want to.

That’s the religion part. As far as the Finnish part, it’s just a past heritage of which to be proud. I’m proud that Finland was the only country to pay off its WWI debts to the USA. I’m proud of the fact that Newsweek Magazine recently selected Finland as “the best nation in the world.” I’m proud that the Finnish educational system is being held up as a model for the USA. I’m proud that the Finns bravely fought the Russians. And so on. But it doesn’t define who I am. Finnish mothers don’t expect (much less demand) their children to marry other Finns. Half-Finns like me have the same “standing” as full blooded Finns. It’s just a very small piece of cultural heritage and no one is trying to “preserve” a closed tribe of Finns within the USA.

In the case of Jews, it’s totally different. I can’t think of a situation which comes close. Jews do not welcome outsiders with open arms. They discourage “converts.” They don’t want “converts.” Converts are never accepted by “true” Jews as being “truly” Jewish. I could emigrate to Finland much easier than I could emigrate to Israel (being paternally half-Jewish, as opposed to maternally half-Jewish). I was once discussing anti-Semitism with one of my “full blooded” Jewish cousins, when, at one point, he stopped and told me, in an exasperated fashion, “you can’t understand, because you are only a half-Jew.” Jewishness isn’t even really a religion. Most American Jews are completely secular, like my father, who, despite taking our family to a Unitarian Church when we were children, answered the call to help defend Israel, in Israel’s time of need. What defines Jewishness is not religion, but it is blood line. Jewishness is about preserving the purity of the blood line. If you are honest with yourself, you’ll acknowledge that this is 100% true. If you doubt it, let me help you find websites where rabbis and other Jews decry the alarming trend of intermarriage, outside of the Jewish community. Finns don’t care if their kids marry non-Finns.

But things are changing. I’d say, for the better. When I was growing up, I didn’t know a single half-Jew, like myself. I still don’t personally know any half-Jews my age, although there are some famous half Jews within a generation of me (such as Michael Douglas, Paul Newman, Geraldo Rivera, Arlo Guthrie, Gwyneth Paltrow, and John McCarthy, inventor of the term “artificial intelligence,” among many others). But today, in the younger generations, it’s totally different. Today, I believe, more than half of all Jews marry non-Jews. The thing about us half-Jews is that we aren’t tribal at all. We can see that we get half our genes from our Moms and half from our Dads and we don’t consider our Dad’s genes to be any more “special” than our Mom’s genes. They are equal. Together, they make us who we are.

And, when we fall in love and marry, we don’t pay any attention at all to whether the girls with whom we fall in love are Jews or Goys. It’s not important to us. What’s important are the intrinsically human qualities of our partners, and not their blood lines.

Older Jews are, frankly, horrified. They are worried that their tribe is going to just die out, through assimilation. American Finns don’t obsess about this. They consider themselves to be Americans, and not Finns. If Jews would just consider themselves to be Americans and not Jews, and freely inter-marry, and “open up” religious Judaism to converts, the way that Christians and Buddhists and Hindus and even Muslims do it, then anti-Semitism would be gone — totally gone — within a generation.

But as long as Jews insist on remaining a distinct, closed tribal society, anti-Semitism will probably continue to exist, in some form or another — albeit virtually at background levels, in modern day America.

Incidentally, I was introduced to the term “the tribe” by a very good Jewish friend. Here’s a definition of the word “tribe:”

A family, race, or series of generations, descending from the same progenitor, and kept distinct, as in the case of the twelve tribes of Israel, descended from the twelve sons of Jacob.

If you disagree with any of the above points and arguments, I’d greatly appreciate it if you’d restrict your comments and/or criticisms to the points themselves, without adding in the personal invective.

– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA

@openid.aol.com/runnswim: Larry let me tell you something…and I am not trying to be ugly or mean! But you have a good heart however sheep have good hearts as well and are eventually eaten! Even though your objectives may be with good intentions and I read them all, where your tree is growing and the fruit it is bearing is not realistic. You have been greatly influenced by the Liberal socialistic educational system even though you have the back ground that you do of your family and all of that is admirable….your conclusions lack a large measure of base in reality!
Your melting pot theory is exactly what drove the Europeans to the hatred of the Jew in Germany! Because they were too much like the Europeans and had the taken the European culture upon them the German people become to despise them!!!! An Obvious study of history shows this factor….Let me ask you how many years did Jews live in Europe as Jews until the Holocaust? and How many years did Jews intermingle into the culture of “the Berliners”? Jews lived in the Germanic States for over 400 years, but when the last two generations intermingled with Aryan race and took on their culture…what happened?
Just like today in Israel the Muslims have no problem with Jews who live as Jews (Chasiddic) Datim and not Zionistic observant of which they have many problems with!
You are so unrealistic it is beyond upsetting! Let me ask you some questions!
Have you had to pick out the pieces of charred and burnt flesh of little school children out of buses that were bombed by terrorist?
Have you ever had to bury your friends that were killed in terrorist attacks, or go the families that lost their sons and to try to comfort them…those who gave their lives to keep you safe?
Have you ever had to rebuild your home because of terrorist rockets , and to pull your neighbors from piles of a heap of lumber and brick to find some injured and some alive?
Have you ever had to give up all that is precious to you to fight terrorism, to give up your identity, your family life, your friends, to give up any normality of a free life?
Have you ever go out on missions for 40 -50 hours at a time with no backup, no relief, no stopping, because this is the price many of us have paid?
Have you ever had to deal with a terrorist on his ground and to face him for who he is?
So what have these grand conclusion you have drawn cost you or what experience in real life are they based on?
I grew up in one of the hardest times in American history as far as the ethnic position of a Jew. I was beaten by Blacks because they felt the Jews (the liberal civil rights activist) had cheated them, and I was beat up by the white supremacist because believed the Blacks would have never gotten what they did without our help….But none of that ever made me want to blow up buildings or buses! In fact my friends are Muslims (real Muslims who we equate each other as brothers) Blacks, Whites, Orientals, and other Jews and we watch each others backs…but our lives and understandings are based in reality and not some liberal fantasy! In fact I hope that Herman Cain and Lt. Col. Allen West take the presidency and show America what is real and get all of the traitors and internet playboys out of Washington and save this country while there is still something to save!

There are holes in your thinking bigger than mountains, you said:
If Jews would just consider themselves to be Americans and not Jews, and freely inter-marry, and “open up” religious Judaism to converts, the way that Christians and Buddhists and Hindus and even Muslims do it, then anti-Semitism would be gone — totally gone — within a generation.

Oh so all of the other worlds religions have peace? Muslims are at peace with every other group of Muslims? Go tell that to the people of Bahrain who had their country ravished and torn with the Support of our State department that the protestors (majority) were not even legal citizens! In their protest with the tents they were selling drugs committing prostitution and even beating people and destroying cars dressed as Policemen! ( dressed as Policemen fraudulently) And gave the videos to CNN and they played them! Yeah these animals are the ones you want to give your daughter to marry? Say what you will I was there!!!!
Just like the Zionistic Liberals are a disease to Jews so are the fanatic Jihadist a disease to good Muslims!!! I do not want to bring this to a theological debate, and I will not…however the hatred you speak of is ancient it started with Cain….and ran through the ages…the hatred of Muslims to Jews started with Ismael ans Esau and continues…and you are going to solve it in generation? Get Real!
Your statement in the most simple logic is “If all cats would breed with all dogs then the outcome would be there would be a new breed and dogs and cats would never fight again!” Absurd at best!
What makes you think any Observant Islamic women would marry you?
Muslims have been resented by each other than the other nations in relation to time and history! Do you think that the Islamic countries have a history of total egalitarian societies? Dream on!
Another thing….If you think that throwing away you heritage will get you the respect of other people I have news for you! YOU ARE 2000% WRONG! If anything they will disrespect you for this!
Can you get anymore Muslim than King Fiasal? ” I will quote you his exact words to me… “A Jew who is not faithful to keep the Sabbath and go in the way of his fathers and heritage..Cannot be trusted! A man that is a traitor to his heritage, and his God will also betray you as well and cannot be trusted!”
He is talking about people like you! get it!

You talk about half Jews….well look up the ancestry of Hitler and Karl Marx! Very interesting! Which half created the monsters? Maybe mingling is not such a great Idea after all! And the so called half Jews of Hollywood are responsible for the moral corruption of the United States as well! Maybe you should write a book! The Great achievements of half breeds and you can start with Obamination! But it may be wise to wait until we begin to feel the aftermath of his lunacy…that way you will not appear to be more foolish than you already are!

openid.aol.com/runnswim,
I have to say that in previous times it did not applye only to the jewish community,
I have seen many part of the same TOWN divided in quaters of IRISHS other of ITALIENS, or JEWISHS
or FRENCHS ,or SCOTCHS, or CHINEESES and other each I think would feel more secure with each other,
now the IMMIGRANTS are not the same as those, diffrent country with more different mentality
which are more keeping to themself because their religion are their politic also, so they don’t want to assimilate, but they want to impose their politics, and when the cityzen notice it, they have a negative view of them with reason, because it’s their COUNTRY that other want to change, and they listen for a while very tolerant but when they see abuse to impose, that is enough to get the citizens to shut down on them , with dislike that doesn’t go away for as long as the abuse is on.

@Nan G: Nan G this guy is so he could not find his ass in a wind storm! Jews are only 1/1200 of the world. And the contributions for both good and evil are more than any other race! Prof. Heber made mustard gas, while Prof. Wietzman developed Kordite which afforded the Allies in WWI to out range the guns of Germany!
Being Jewish is a life of discipline and order, a life of learning and reflection! We only come closer to God by way of wisdom, understanding and knowledge! As it is written” The eyes of a wise man are in his head” Meaning that as a person really learns truth and approaches closer to God his eyes are focused on his own heart and not casting at others! Which is definitely contrary to liberal thought! Nan G thank you for your comment!……Funny if you go to a liberal arts college for 4 years you know it all….However as a Jew you can study for 70 years six hours a day in the Holy writings and yet you will have only learned one face of the law (Torah) out of 72! Really bright guys these liberals? Never saw anyone run out of a Synagogue with a bomb strapped to his back to blow up innocent civilians yet!

@openid.aol.com/runnswim: So now the chicken tells the Cow that he knows more about cows than the cow does? Is this what you are trying to say? I do not need any organization to tell me what has existed in Jewish law for over 3,400 years! If Jews intermingle under your thesis than they will be no more Jews….hence non-existent (dead)! Just a hint of common sense Dah! How can you understand something you clearly display you have no real knowledge of ??????? Get real!!!
All the Philosophy in the world will not be able to efficiently explain the taste of an Steak! you have either eaten one or you have not! You have been clearly exposed as an ignorant Philosopher so move on!