image courtesy swordattheready.com
Flopping Aces has extensively documented the pain Barack Obama has chosen to inflict on this country because his highness is displeased that his servants in the GOP refuse to kneel.
It seems that Obama still has the pedal to the metal screaming down Agony Avenue in the Hurt Limo.
Priests in the military apparently have been banned from serving mass. I they do try to perform a mass, they will be subject to arrest.
Warnings have been issued about the potential abuse of personal information by Obamacare navigators.
Private information you post while signing up for Obamacare may be used against you in a court of law.
Obama has converted the Park Police into his own Gestapo:
Vaillancourt was one of thousands of people who found themselves in a national park as the federal government shutdown went into effect on Oct. 1. For many hours her tour group, which included senior citizen visitors from Japan, Australia, Canada and the United States, were locked in a Yellowstone National Park hotel under armed guard. The tourists were treated harshly by armed park employees, she said, so much so that some of the foreign tourists with limited English skills thought they were under arrest. When finally allowed to leave, the bus was not allowed to halt at all along the 2.5-hour trip out of the park, not even to stop at private bathrooms that were open along the route. “We’ve become a country of fear, guns and control,” said Vaillancourt, who grew up in Lawrence. “It was like they brought out the armed forces. Nobody was saying, ‘we’re sorry,’ it was all like — ” as she clenched her fist and banged it against her forearm.
Obama is spending far more money keeping people out of Parks than he ever would leaving them as they were.
Obama has put an end to therapy dogs visiting sick children:
Volunteers run the dog therapy program, but the veterinarians are on NIH staff and are paid as federal employees. In an Oct. 3 interview on National Public Radio’s Morning Edition, Abbey Whetzel talked about her son, Sam, who is dying of leukemia and enjoyed it when he was visited by the dogs. “They can only come once a week, but it’s the highlight of Sam’s week,” Whetzel said, adding that she was informed that the dogs would not be visiting because of the government shutdown. “He was disappointed,” Whetzel said. “He really looks forward to the dogs coming.
Cancer treatments have been defunded but NPR got a half a billion dollars:
LOS ANGELES – Funding for clinical cancer trials and other life-saving research under the National Institutes of Health was cut off in response to the government slimdown, but it looks like the cookie monster will still be knee-deep in chocolate chips (or is it carrots now?)
According to the Daily Treasury Statement and first reported by CNS News, the administration dished out $445 million to the Corporation for Public Broadcasting (CPB) on the first day of the slimdown, which means funds for the likes of PBS Newshour, NPR and “Sesame Street” are being spent before cancer research.
“It’s more than irresponsible, it is reprehensible. It’s an ‘in-your-face’ move by the administration, blatantly picking winners and losers in this shutdown,” C. Edmund Wright, a columnist for Breitbart.com and American Thinker, told FOX411. “Public broadcasting is a staple of liberal propaganda.”
And as Media Research Center’s Director of Media Analysis, Tim Graham, pointed out, PBS has hosted two “very friendly” interviews with President Obama in recent weeks.
The CPB argued that it was indispensable, as opposed to cancer treatment:
But the CPB defended their big payday, telling FOX411 in a statement that their funding was “indispensable”and provide jobs for thousands of people.
It was noted that PBS has held two obsequious interviews with Obama over the last two weeks.
These are all Obama choices. They are meant to exert the maximal amount of pain on Americans- the Americans Obama took an oath to protect. This is not just bad judgment- it is evil.
When does the left stop swallowing the Koolaid?
Obamacare was premised on a set of lies- that you could keep your plan, keep your doctor and it was going to cost you less in premiums.
None of that is true.
It was supposed to reduce health care spending.
Obamacare was passed via legislative chicanery and legerdemain. We had to pass to find out what’s in it.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoE1R-xH5To[/youtube]
Obama unilaterally rewrites existing law from the Oval Office as he pleases, in violation of the Constitution:
Explaining his decision to unilaterally rewrite the Affordable Care Act, he said: “I didn’t simply choose to” ignore the statutory requirement for beginning in 2014 the employer mandate to provide employees with healthcare. No, “this was in consultation with businesses.”
He continued: “In a normal political environment, it would have been easier for me to simply call up the speaker and say, you know what, this is a tweak that doesn’t go to the essence of the law . . . it looks like there may be some better ways to do this, let’s make a technical change to the law. That would be the normal thing that I would prefer to do. But we’re not in a normal atmosphere around here when it comes to Obamacare. We did have the executive authority to do so, and we did so.”
Serving as props in the scripted charade of White House news conferences, journalists did not ask the pertinent question: “Where does the Constitution confer upon presidents the ‘executive authority’ to ignore the separation of powers by revising laws?” The question could have elicited an Obama rarity: Brevity. Because there is no such authority.
This is a bad law, as most that are hyper-partisan and rammed down the throat of America under dubious circumstances.
Please don’t argue that it’s wrong to try to change or defund established law. Dred Scott and Jim Crow laws were laws of the land. They were also bad law. I support any effort to modify or repeal this law, even to the point of default, and if for no other reason than to forever stain the Presidency of this vile, narcissistic and obstreperous man. The GOP is doing exactly the right thing, and one day this will be self-evident. Obamacare is nothing short of a disaster that is unfolding before our eyes.
Isn’t the job of the President to ensure the safety and welfare of America, as opposed to causing it the greatest amount of pain possible? Isn’t that a violation of the Oath of Office? Does it not violate the responsibility of the position?
So the question for you liberals is, when is enough enough?
UDPATE
The walls may be closing in. Obama is down to 37% approval. I don’t really care that people blame the GOP for the shutdown. These are the same stupid people who believed the lies in the first place and they aren’t going to re-elect Republicans in their own districts.
And in a very odd twist, Obama has summoned conservative journalists to the White House.
Likely to torture them on an off-shore black prison, er, I mean ship.
DrJohn has been a health care professional for more than 40 years. In addition to clinical practice he has done extensive research and has published widely with over 70 original articles and abstracts in the peer-reviewed literature. DrJohn is well known in his field and has lectured on every continent except for Antarctica. He has been married to the same wonderful lady for over 45 years and has three kids- two sons, both of whom are attorneys and one daughter who is in the field of education.
DrJohn was brought up with the concept that one can do well if one is prepared to work hard but nothing in life is guaranteed.
Except for liberals being foolish.
@Nan G: #31
A short time ago today, Fox News said that because congress voted to give the federal employees back pay, the ones who receive unemployment will have to give it back to the states who gave it to them. Imagine how much time will be involved by the different state unemployment employees helping with the extra unemployment applications, then filing to get the money back from each one. If it is legal for each state to do it, they should deny all requests, since the workers will get their back pay, can they legally be classified as unemployed. I hope the states look into it. After I am done writing this, I am going to ask my state politicians to look into it. I suggest that other do to.
@Randy: I don’t know who spent all the time necessary to put all that together, but they’ve made a good case that the government, Obama, is clearly violating the law. But, that’s nothing new.
@Nan G: Thanks for your update on #6.
RedTeam Was referring to O5’s “members of M.B. in high Govt. positions.”
Tis one
on 7,
your link doesn’t hold truth here and who ever are too lazy to get a rightfuly done pole,
we know the obama ship is sinking lower than his red line,
and we know where the intelligence light shine, that is at THE HOUSE OF REPUBLICANS,
AS OPPOSE AT THE TREMBLING SENATE OF OBAMA SHUT DOWN.
@Tom:
While I doubt the President is sitting at his desk writing sticky notes, telling everyone to bring the pain, he is not a the silent observer you paint him to be. The National Park Police work for the Secretary of the Interior, a member of President Obama’s cabinet.
Also, closed is closed does not really apply to parking lots and open air malls. To close the parking lot at Mt. Vernon, which is privately owned, is spiteful. If closed is closed, why not close the interstates? Why are they spending more money putting up barricades than they are if the regular staff just showed up? Kind of goes against the spirit of reducing costs during a slim down, doesn’t it?
@Smorgasbord: I can assure you I don’t believe everything the media writes about Obama. I can assure you a belief that Obama will declare Martial Law is IMO— UNFOUNDED HYPERBOLE.
btw I’ve made it very clear I don’t approve of the way this admin has handled Benghazi. I do find fault with Obama. Those who declare they can’t credit him for anything—???
@Redteam: #36
I would rather be entertained by clowns than obama’s court jesters.
http://www.freakingnews.com/The-King-Barack-Obama-And-His-Jester-Pictures-87671.asp
Give a liberal a fish, and they will ask for seconds. Teach a liberal to fish, and they will file for unemployment.
@Aqua: Why isn’t the White House closed? Why aren’t the White House staff laid off? I thought only absolutely necessary employees could work, surely Michelle can cook.
@Randy: #45
You made me realize that they would have to give up MOST of their free stuff, but not all of it.
@Richard Wheeler:
Oh, I can credit him with a lot, none of it good.
@Richard Wheeler:
I provided you a link (for which you made no comment) that supplied lots of information about Elibiary, most of it scrubbed from websites but captured by the Wayback Machine. I doubt that you even bothered to read any of it. As to little Huma, only hermits living in a cave are unaware of her ties to the Muslim Brotherhood or her family’s (mother, father and brother) really close ties to the Muslim Brotherhood.
Again, there is no proof that you would not discount. You are blind and willingly so.
@retire05: I read your link regarding Eliabery and found no proof of your accusation.
You stated “members of M.B. in high Govt positions.” I know you’re not foolish enough to accuse Huma of being a member so who else ya gonna accuse?
Note to R.T Here we are dealing with slander vs. mere hyperbole.
@Richard Wheeler: #56
obama takes the credit for EVERYTHING good. He and Joe Biden even tried to make Biden’s jokingly saying, “He could turn over every single bit of his chemical weapons to the international community in the next week….” into a SERIOUS way to avoid an attack. obama took credit for killing Osama, even though he didn’t even know about the raid until the helicopters were almost there. I’m guessing that you still give him credit for both events.
One good thing is that after five years, he no longer blames Bush for everything. He now blames congress. If he gets a full democratic congress after the next elections, and things still get worse, I wonder who he will have planned to blame then? Every other president admitted blame for something.
@Redteam:
Personally, I think Obama can’t wait for the third week of January, 2017. For that matter, neither can I.
@Smorgasbord: You folks are certainly working on giving the Dems. control of The House and The Senate in 2o14—Repub. approval at 28 % today—-Ouch!
@Richard Wheeler:
talking public figures here, no slander involved. Do you seriously think that all those ‘links’ are ‘made up’?
@Smorgasbord: Hey Smorg, I actually think it is ‘credit’ that Obama claims, but I’m relatively sure he doesn’t know the difference.
@another vet: I think you’re correct.
@Richard Wheeler:
You’re one of the few that seems to believe in polls. Well, except the one showing Obama at 37 and sinking like a rock. Personally, I think the Repubs will maintain the House and take the Senate next year.
Apparently the republican leadership believes in polls. They suddenly seem to have lost all interest in threatening to use the debt ceiling as a weapon of mass destruction.
@Redteam: Good luck with that R.T. You remind me of Rove and Morris who assured us Romney was gonna win. Told us to disregard those lamestream media polls that were predicting a BHO win.
Seems you kinda pick the polls you like and discard the others. Brilliant strategy.
Greg..It does appear that 28% approval got their attention.
Why is Obama failing to negotiate on anything?
“If the president sees himself as a 17-year-old being held at gunpoint by an older man, then it is too much to expect him to govern effectively.
If he sees himself as having been taken hostage by kidnappers who want to blow him up, it is too much to expect him to hear any truths these “kidnappers” might want to share.”
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/10/10/is-obama-locked-in-victim-mentality/
Best line regarding Obama:
“Victims aren’t expected to lead. They expect to be rescued.
That would seem to be our problem as a nation right now.”
@Richard Wheeler:
Your denial of the MB connections to this Oval Office remind me of earlier Democrats who denied there were any Communists in the federal government decades ago. Your side was wrong then (i.e. the Venona Papers), and your side is wrong now.’
And nothing like Obama sending out congrats to ISNA, an unindicted co-conspirator in the Holyland Foundation trial, on their 30th convention.
Of course I will. Odd how little Huma could live so luxuriously before she married the sex-texter. Designer handbags worth thousands of $$, her wedding dress designed by Oscar de la Renta for a tony $50,000.00 and featured in Vogue Magazine. She is famous for her Marc Jacobs tote bags that one has to pony up around $1,000/ea. D.C. insiders talked how Huma was never seen in the same outfit twice, plus a very, VERY expensive D.C. apartment. Not to mention a wedding that was low balled at a quarter of a million bucks. All of this on her $135K year job. Even if you add in the sex-texters salary of $175K/year the numbers don’t add up. And her family is not wealthy.
So you tell me, Richard; where did all that money come from? And do you even know Huma’s history? I doubt it.
So you cover your eyes, and shout “Nothing to see here. Move on. Move on. It’s all a conservative conspiracy.”
@retire05: As you know the leaders of both Parties have come to her defense and cleared her of scurrilous accusations. But heck you’ll make em any way. That’s the game plan of folks like you and the totally discredited and retiring Muslim hunter Michele Bachmann.
We’ve been over the credibility of Joe McCarthy. Censured by The Senate,he left in disgrace after his Communist witch hunt ruined the lives of many reputable people. No surprise he’s your guy. RT’s as well.
You’re accusing Huma of MB membership because she wore expensive clothes and jewelry. That’s a stretch—and pretty catty.
@Richard Wheeler:
Well, going into the last election, I believed the polls that said Obama was gonna win. Seems as if I was right. I believe the polls that show Obama at 37% and sinking, except, I think they are trailing by about 5 points, i.e., he’s about really at 32 and sinking.
I love James Taranto even though I miss reading him often.
Today, however, he is well above his normal great game.
A couple of ObamaCare apologists have penned an article about the, “9 Valid Concerns We Can All Have About Obamacare, Without Thinking It Will Literally Bring Hell on Earth.”
In this the two writers sound like they are on bended knee near Obama’s throne.
Oh, great Obama!
LOL!
They start by using Obama’s favorite straw man to demonize the opposition……
Did you know that “WE” believe that “America is going to be destroyed by ObamaCare???”
Yeah, they ”prove” it.
Then they inform us that MOST laws (not ALL human-made laws?) are ”not perfect.”
(Even ObamaCare!!!)
With that in mind, oh, great Obama, they have a few small concerns:
1. What happens if not enough people enroll?
2. How will people respond to paying higher premiums?
3. What happens if the newly insured don’t understand what they’re buying?
4. What about the states that didn’t expand Medicaid?
5. Will health care coverage be sufficient for everyone?
6. What happens if Obamacare succeeds in some states but fails in others?
7. How will companies handle the employer mandate when it takes effect?
8. Are there substantial technical flaws?
9. How secure are the exchanges?
Real opponents of ObamaCare were bringing 8 of these up YEARS ago!
Issue #4 came out only after the Supreme Court allowed states to opt out.
Anyway, these are all, and have been all, valid questions.
IF you support ObamaCare, what do you feel about the logical conclusion that either we are FORCED to comply or this whole thing is going to fall of its own weight?
Republicans want it removed and replaced with a private enterprise solution that deals with what the actual problems were in the first place.
In the case of ObamaCare, there is no middle solution.
States’ rights are at risk.
Personal rights are at risk.
Federalism is too expensive already, and able to function fully even with a 17% cut to spending.
Lastly, ObamaCare destroys personal incentive, so, where will the money come from?
@Petercat: Very good!!
@Richard Wheeler:
I think if you’ll check, he was censured by the Dimocrats in the Senate, some of whom were card carriers themselves as well as the card carrying members of Roosevelt and Trumans administration. Just because the Communists were able to fool all the Dimocrats all the time doesn’t mean they were right. But it does say a lot about the Dimocrats. If you think Joe was wrong, pick just one person that he accused and we’ll discuss the details. Pick any one.
@Richard Wheeler:
And they would be? From both parties?
“Cleared” her? Was there a trial? Evidence presented for, and against, her? Examinations of her extravagant life style and excess money spending for someone earning $135K/yr?
Just what lives did McCarthy ruin? Name the people. Be specific for once in your life. As to his leaving in disgrace, why was that? Who was it that started the rumor that Joe McCarty was a drunk? Oh, that’s right; that bastion of honor and honesty, LBJ.
No, I’m saying the math doesn’t work. No one making $135 K/yr before taxes can afford $1,000.00 hand bags, $50K wedding dresses and a quarter of a million dollar wedding, tony D.C. apartments and being known for never wearing the same (expensive and designer) outfit the same time. Where was she getting the money?
And do you think that if a Republican woman, say Sarah Palin or Michelle Bachmann, was seen living well beyond their means you would not be demanding to know why? If you’re claiming that, you’re the one that is a liar.
If I were a high powered drug dealer, living high off the hog with no visible means of support, driving Jaguars and living in a $5 million home, I would hope that you would be my neighbor.
You’ve just got to love the logic over at Faux “News.” Republicans shut down the government. Then they decide that it’s okay to run the government a la carte, and pass one piecemeal measure after another, funding the portions of the government they like, and so they can run political ads later against the Democrats and claim they don’t really love the hostages the Republicans decided to release one by one.
Then even after being warned by the Pentagon that the shutdown was going to delay members of the military receiving their death benefits, they go ahead and shut the government down anyway. And then the likes of Bill O’Reilly and his buddies Ralph Peters and David Hunt decide to blame the whole thing on Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel, for not fixing their mess quickly enough to suit them.
O’Reilly also decided to cite some polls saying that President Obama’s approval rating was at an all-time low, but he did his best to gloss over the record high disapproval ratings for Republicans.
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/oreilly-demands-hagel-resign-not-cleaning
Short memory, much, TO?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/24/AR2010052403836.html
In what Obama called a campaign to crack down on wasteful government spending, on Monday, May 24th, 2010, Obama asked Congress to grant him new powers to slice lawmakers’ pet projects from congressionally approved spending bills.
Obama’s proposal is a variation on the line-item veto, which was approved by a Republican Congress in 1996 and used by then-president Bill Clinton to slice more than $2 billion from spending bills before being ruled unconstitutional in 1998.
Congress has traditionally been unwilling to share its constitutional powers over the nation’s purse strings, as they should be, since it is THEIR power, not Obama’s.
This, BTW, was while Obama had a Dem controlled Senate AND House!
IF anyone wanted the power to run the federal government a la carte it was Obama until his own DEMOCRAT Legislative Branch shut him down!
@Redteam: The tag team of RT and o5 defending Joe McCarthy and yelling about MB members in the upper echelons of our govt. To quote Yogi–Deja vu all over again.You two are hilarious,
Congress Was Warned the Shutdown Would Delay Military Death Benefits
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/10/congress-was-warned-the-shutdown-would-delay-military-death-benefits/280299/
@Richard Wheeler: #65
I noticed you didn’t give the democrat approval rating. Why not? All of congress is at 5%. That is an all time record for them. Not the kind of record a trophy is given for. Maybe we should get rid of all republicans and democrats and start over.
@Redteam: #67
Maybe obama was so spoiled as he grew up that he doesn’t know how to “earn” credit for something. Wasn’t it his rich aunt that raised him? It’s like the welfare recipients who don’t “earn” their welfare money. They just expect it.
@Petercat: #72
When obama has been saying he won’t negotiate, that means he wants 100% of his way. Senator obama condemned Bush for doing the EXACT things he himself is doing now. What is that term called that if you condemn someone for doing the exact same thing you are doing?
@Aqua:
If people normally work at these places, which would indicate they have necessary functions to perform keeping them open, then, yes, I would expect them to be closed when these people are furloughed. As the spokesperson for Yellowstone pointed out, you have the skeleton crew of rangers working to ensure someone doesn’t walk into a hot geyser or cause harm to the park, not as tour guides. What you’re suggesting is that people should be allowed in the mall at night because the security guard is on duty. I’m sorry, if something is closed, I don’t think it’s Gestapo tactics to ask people to leave. I should also point out that the park services have refuted Dr John’s accusation that anyone was threatened, the accusation he has no proof for.
This goes back to my point that it’s patently ridiculous for Conservatives to be upset that cutting off funding to government programs has a negative impact on the quality of life in America. If Conservatives want federal employees opening National Parks then why are they asking for drastic cuts to the federal budget that would result in the types of inconveniences they’re complaining about?
When is FA going to write about the Obama administration making allowances for the following: veteran access to war memorials, death benefits for soldiers families – and yes – the closing of National Parks? Each issue has been addressed by the evil administration.
I also don’t expect to hear about all the pain the shutdown has caused that doesn’t play into the Obama Gestapo meme. No, you’re not going to hear about the impact to the environment, or schools, or the CDC being shuttered, because Conservatives don’t care about those things. And you’re not going to hear about the impact to national security, because Conservatives will never in a million years admit that they weighed defunding Obamacare higher than national security, or anything else really, because wiping that smug look off Obama’s face, what could be more important? But perhaps a foreigner (because Conservatives are well known for loving foreigners) who hasn’t read a newspaper in month finds his vacation is ruined, you should expect to hear about it from the Right. A lot.
Utah has just decided to open all four of its federally owned parks, including Zion National Park and Arches.
The gov said it would ”cost” the STATE taxpayers $50,000 per day BUT that businesses related to those 4 parks were losing far more than that.
And, what with their taxes and employees taxes, these parks would pay for themselves!
Nan G
THAT’S the part most notice from OBAMA, HIS QUICK REACTION TO PUNISH ANYONE NOT OBEYING HIS RULES, MOSTLY WHERE IT’S HURT MONEY FOR HIM TO POCKET AND SPEND,
Iwas reading from one who had signed in the OBAMA CARE AND DECIDE IT WAS TOO EXPANSIVE, SO HE CANCEL IT,and he recieved a note that will cost him multi thousands dollars, and if he doesn’t pay he will loose his house, that was terrible to read, imagine how many will opt out when the bill come in,
and be threaten like so,
it’s a regime of fear, I am repeating this story because I want the PEOPLE TO BE AWARE OF WHAT THEY ARE GETTING,
@Aqua:
By the way, Aqua. Since Conservatives are so upset about the heartless impact cuts are having upon peoples’ vacations, how are you going to feel about the impact that the Republican budget, if enacted, will have upon millions of less fortunate, sick and poor Americans’ lives? While we’re all weeping about someone’s camping trip being spoiled, can we spare a tear for real pain? This entire mess is all about the Republicans trying to push through their budget cuts and kill Obamacare. Let’s look at some of what that means, based on Ryan’s budget plan:
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3925
@This one: This one reminds me of something, oh yea, I know what it is…..
@Richard Wheeler:
And your example is?
@This one: Remember what I said before?
@Smorgasbord: For RW, did you see this. I’ll bet you can’t do the math.
Let’s see…..Repubs at 28, Congress at 5,……Dims = ? What would that work out to, RW?
28
+ ?
= 5. hmmm, that’s not gonna be a real high number for the Dims, is it?
@Smorgasbord:
The jury is still out on that? No one seems to know, as of this time, just who it was that raised him. The search party is still looking.
@retire05, #79:
We might start with the Hollywood Ten, whose careers McCarthy thoroughly disrupted or demolished. They were the first 10 Hollywood personalities he went after. Of the 10, 8 were sentenced to a year in prison and 2 were sentenced to six months. Their crime? Trying to stop this jackass’s witch hunt in its tracks by refusing to cooperate with him. Instead, they all claimed their First Amendment rights to free speech and openly criticized his tactics in court. They didn’t claim the protection of the Fifth Amendment, correctly sizing up the situation and not wishing to suggest there was anything they were concealing.
Hollywood executives were so terrorized by the government’s response that they publicly blacklisted the 10, which made it impossible for them to work in the industry. They then added to the blacklist anyone who failed to cooperate with McCarthy—which generally meant making a sworn statement against somebody else. After the Hollywood 10, those McCarthy accused often tried claiming their rights under the Fifth Amendment, but—as expected—that was taken as being as good as a guilty plea, and promptly got them blacklisted.
Guilty until proven innocent, with your only way out giving the names of someone else to persecute; Joe McCarthy and his tactics were about as unAmerican as it gets.
Here’s a long list of notable creative people who were persecuted and blacklisted because of this creep: Victims of McCarthyism
McCarthyism should stand as a warning and source of shame to any freedom-loving American.
@Redteam: #94
I only learned general math in school, and don’t know how to figure out the rating for the democrats. Could it actually be a minus number?
@Redteam: #95
Whoever raised him raised a spoiled brat.
@Greg:But, basically he was right: read:
Read more at
@Smorgasbord: let’s see if we can figure it out.
28 for Republicans
5 overall average
-23 Dimocrats
yep, works out..
Not sure how a minus number is possible, but then, they are Dimocrats, soooo…….