To tag team my post on Friday about Obama’s cowardly and politically expedient Afghanistan withdrawal from Afghanistan, I now bring you another perspective from the Middle East. Most specifically, an “‘anti-terrorism conference in Tehran” [ain’t that an oxymoron in itself??] where Afghanistan’s Karzai and Pakistan’s Asif Ali “Mr. Bhutto, spouse of Taliban creator” Zardari of Pakistan, discuss how to deal with the US turning tail and bugging out under Obama. From Robert Fisk, appearing in tomorrow’s UK Independent edition:
When I slipped through the mass of Iranian journalists surrounding the Iranian foreign minister, I found Ali Akbar Salehi a very cautious man indeed, apparently more anxious how his English would be translated into Farsi than how he would be reported in The Independent.
“In the trilateral talks between Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan, we discussed many things and issues that may come up after the Nato military force goes out of Afghanistan,” he said. “I think there was a good convergence of views among the leaders of the three countries … In a nutshell, I’m very optimistic about the future of the region – unlike what some others would like to preach. The nations of these three are going home determined to take in hand their governance and exercise their independence to do the best in economic, political and cultural cooperation.”
~~~This is a long diplomatic way of saying “Phew! – the Americans are going at last and we’re all on our own.” Even Iran’s Supreme Leader, whose wisdom is greeted with Vatican-like adherence here, seems to have concluded that the US plans to abandon its eastern neighbour. Ayatollah Sayed Ali Khamenei thought the Americans would be gone “within three years”. But the vast US airbase in Kandahar, like those at Bagram and elsewhere, look like much longer-term projects; so do the giant US military “lily-pads” (the expression of that extraordinary military strategist D Rumsfeld, Esq) in Iraq.
Afghans, themselves, fear the Obama premature retreat, wary that the lack of security allows the Taliban to regroup.
Many Afghans concerned about feeling abandoned by the U.S. are asking with some urgency, “Will we be ready?”
~~~The core Taliban group’s idea is to topple the system, to reverse the process,” Abdullah Abdullah, a former Afghan foreign minister and President Hamid Karzai’s main opponent in the last presidential election, told reporters in Kabul on Thursday. “They will continue that struggle; that’s very obvious.”
Haroon Mir, an Afghan political and security analyst, said many concerns involve what the Taliban may achieve by 2014, rather than in the next several months.
“We know the Taliban won’t amass a bunch of fighters because 10,000 U.S. troops have left this year, but in 2014, that might be the case,” Mir said. “People are afraid that the Taliban will return, and the Afghan security forces won’t be able to defend the country.”
Even last summer, alleged AQ Khan pal, General Mirza Aslam Beg, was penning harbinger op-eds, hailing the inevitability of Pakistan and Afghanistan’s renewed alliance with Iran.
The Afghan freedom movement now has reached a point where the occupation forces are suffering from failure of nerves, inducting more troops only to reinforce their defeat. The irony is that the occupation forces, which stand defeated, are trying to lay down the conditions for peace, which is the privilege of the Taliban, who have emerged as winners. It would, therefore be proper to focus on Afghanistan, the people, their culture, their national ethos, their sense of honour and value system, which lend resilience to the cause of freedom. The occupation forces must accept the reality that they have failed to read the complex tribal and societal relationship of the Afghans. They must not repeat the mistakes of 1990 and 2001, of denying the fruits of victory to the Afghans, i.e., to share power and form a government. There will be no peace, if any other course is adopted. Taliban are now strong enough to snatch away their freedom, which they have won with such a great sacrifice.
The people know the predicament of the occupation forces and the tenuousness of the routes of supply to Afghanistan. The attack on the NATO supply convey near Islamabad and the turmoil in Kyrgyzstan to disrupt the daily supply of over forty five thousand liters of oil daily from the Manas air base, is meant to check-mate the occupation forces. Who is responsible for these acts? Certainly, not the Taliban from Afghanistan or the American haters of Pakistan! Not difficult to make a fair guess!!
The Americans and the allies have to take a bold decision in Afghanistan, same as years earlier, wisdom demanded that timely intervention in Bosnia was necessary to check the spread of jehadism in Europe. In Afghanistan, the Americans themselves have become part of the problem, yet it is not too late to intercede now.
~~~The momentous decision, Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan, now have to jointly take, is a comprehensive strategy to revitalize the war ravaged Afghanistan. The occupation forces have no option but to exit, creating a power vacuum, which they will try to fill with the proxy power, like India. This must be prevented at all cost, as our joint responsibility, ensuring that:
■Afghanistan returns to their people, to let them govern the country as it suits them.
■Help the Afghans, establish peace, as the prelude to regional stability.
■Demand from the Americans, their allies and the Russians, to pay for the war damages to the Afghans.
■Join the world community to rebuild Afghanistan’s basic infrastructures for speedier economic recovery.
Congrats to, Obama. Quite a foreign policy accomplishment. Alienating ally Israel, starting a new “non war” in Libya, interfering in civil wars in only US cooperative-with-intel nations, and siding against Honduras and their Constitutional ouster of a rogue despot President. Quite the portfolio thus far. Who woulda thunk one novice, inexperienced guy with too much power to handle could chalk up such a list of failures in such a short time?
Now, as icing on the cake, this POTUS has not only left our remaining troops more vunerable by prematurely seizing their “back up” for his politically expedient withdrawal/bugging out during what will be a tough re’election campaign, *and* abandoning the mission prior to any modicum of success… he’s now driven them into the open arms of an overt enemy – Iran – simultaneously….
All for election campaign “bragging rights”?
One has to wonder… US failure and retreat is a positive talking point? Indeed it is, to the historically challenged brain dead. With the dubious record of this POTUS – including the economy is tanking with no end in sight, and a war weary, uninvolved citizenry – any short term “fix” can look inviting…
… that is until they see the expansion of Iranian influence in the region.
Vietnam era Navy wife, indy/conservative, and an official California escapee now residing as a red speck in the sea of Oregon blue.
It’s so damn sad to know that the people of Afghanistan generally like us and want us to stay, (they KNOW who the REAL badguys are) but their own government (which we helped along via relatively clean elections) and those who claim they care, continues to talk shit.
General Beg is a prime example of this. Reading between the lines, it’s obvious his is a 100% Islamo-centric viewpoint:
This is code for Afghanistan’s constitution is not Islamic enough…Too much Infidel influence on the umma.” (Even though “the people” have voted several times now, there is a risk that someday a less Islamic person may eventually come to power…This can NOT be allowed to happen.)
“Peace” in this case only means “Remove the Infidel, then we’ll call whatever happens, peace. “Peace” in the Koran is defined as an 100% pure Islamic community.
Yeah right…Like any average Afghan would see a penny.
These last two is REALLY what he wants. Money from the infidel to the Islamofascists, as proscribed by Mohammed, for transgressions against Islam.
I think that unless or until Iran aims a Nuke at the United States, Obama will turn a blind eye to what they do. Great article Mata. Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Obama s’posed to improve America’s image with the rest of the world?
I mean which one of those muslim countries has said, “You know, under Obama that USA is not so bad!”?
None.
Another Obama failure.
He did a limited airstrike on Iran already. Seriously though thats not one of the most serious pending issues right now and they have spies working within. If they begin building a nuke they will be stopped in their tracks. President Obama is anti-war and you have known that since before he became President if you ever read his Nobel Prize. We’re a country of warmongers anyway. I hope they retreat all the way and let them kill themselves. I support President Obama on every decision he makes and i always will. Even a retreat.
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=373003
President Obama dropped the Federal Law on crack. Whats up with that?
Is he helping a brother out or what:)? I say legalize it and tax it. We can spend the money on war!
Mata, “One has to wonder… US failure and retreat is a positive talking point?”
Someone might send this President a link to the memoirs of William Tecumseh Sherman, Vol I & II available freely on the internet. A glimpse into the best known record of the Civil War, from this revered tactician, might provide Obama with a “teaching” moment, . . . or two.
You either go all in and get the job done, then leave, destroying and devastating all poppy fields on the way out the door, or . . . . you pull everyone out at the same time.
Slowly exiting, will put many lives in danger.
I forget where I read it, but the Afghani civilians are arming themselves as much as they can right now.
It will be ”every man for himself,” before they know it.
I find it oddly ironic, but terribly sad, that it was President Bush who cared about lives of ”brown” people while Obama seems willing to let them die.
I recall Pres. Bush talking often about the females of Afghanistan finally being allowed to be schooled, to teach, to practice medicine.
Well, that idea going to crash and burn with our pullout.
Only a fool could miss how Obama’s adjusted ROE’s set our troops up for failure and death.
Now, measured on that yardstick, it is better to be out than dying, isn’t it?
Another ”STRAW MAN.”
Only this straw man actually cost real men their lives until Obama ”won” by making his false straw man point that we couldn’t win there.
Well, we could have, under different ROE’s.
But Obama’s ROE’s were terrible.
Now, the Afghani’s are looking for a strong horse.
And, it is Iran.
In a sense, this whole strong horse/weak horse thing is one of Islam’s straw men.
But that’s their problem.
When the attacks reach our shores more than they already have, it will be our problem again.
And that will be soon enough.
Does anyone think that the Taliban won’t come here?
I wish I could remember exactly which Muslim radical said it, but soon after 9/11 there was a statement to the effect that even if the U.S. did in fact attack or invade as they put it, we did not in fact have the stomach to actually eradicate the radical fundamentalists. If I remember correctly, they went on to say they already were making inroads here in the U.S. to assure the election of people who were behind them rather than our country. Well, now you have it. You have a Muslim leaning President and the extremely political correct scumbags who will never stand behind our country’s right to eradicate the evil that is Radical Muslim Fundamentalism! How sad that the scum of the earth were indeed correct as to their evaluation of us!
Mata, we’ve won in Afghanistan. When the enemy is reduced to tricking 8 year-old girls into being suicide bombers, we’re no longer fighting a guerilla war, but a terrorist campaign. It is now time to let the Afghans step up to the plate and run their nation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan_National_Army
260,000 by 2014. That doesn’t include the police force, either.
Give that the Taliban are now down to about 12,000-if that-I see no reason to continue pouring billions upon billions into a nation which we have defeated the enemy.
Have a good day.
IT WOULD NEED SOME POWERFULL LESSON TO FREAK UP THE TALIBAN,
REMEMBER WHEN JAPAN START TO GET TO CLOOSE FOR COMFORT,
AND BOMB OUR NAVY BEST BOATS, THEY QUICKLY CHANGE THEIR PLAN,
WHEN THE PRESIDENT DECIDE TO PUT THEM IN THEIR PLACE,
that’s the way you have to deal with bullys, the only language they understand
Yeah right, @Ivan… “mission accomplished”.
In your dreams, dude.
Jack Giggles, don’t you think they should take care of the outsides felons with a light conviction
before that law to reduce the minimum sentence on crack offender,
there are some felons which are not able to survive because they carry that stain mark for ever in their quest to find work,
what is it wrong with those in leadership position, can they figure out to begin with those outside the prison,
who for some should be elligible for having their life back clean dossier,
are they so imcompetent so to help foreigners they associate with sending them billions, of the AMERICANS TAX DOLLARS THAT MAKE HIS IMAGE LOOK GOOD,
while the many young AMERICANS who would deserve a break by erasing the felon’s mark on them,
are left behind, you are following the wrong party and should check carefully where you’re interest is best
to focus very closely, do your job as an AMERICAN SHOULD BE DOING,
AND THERE IS A STUFF YOU CAN BUY FOR THE CRACK ON YOUR RADIATOR ,IT’S IN A TUBE AND WOULD BE APPLY TO THE CRACK AND HARDEN IT LIKE REPAIRED, CHECK IT UP SPECIFY THAT IS
TO REPAIR A CRACK IN RADIATOR, BECAUSE THERE IS OTHER KIND FOR OTHER CRACKS
@MataHarley:
Endless wars, huh? Have you learned nothing from our prevous failures? You don’t keep pouring the American treasury down a shit-hole like Afghanistan.
Christians are being beheaded in Afghanistan and bibles are burnt! Yet you want to continue supporting Karzi (sp?) and his criminal regime?
Go for it, Mata, and may God forgive you.
Ivan, do try to stick to a single point if you will.
You called this a “mission accomplished moment” when you said “we won”. If that’s the case, why not have every coalition warrior board ships, cargo planes and everyone come home at once?
Why… because we haven’t won and as we back out, the violence will increase. Generals on the ground know that. And so do the guys left behind, watching their back up peers leave.
The you babble on about “endless wars”, beheadings in Afghanistan and bibles being burnt. Like that wasn’t happening before we got there? Like since Obama’s aided the removal of Mubarak in Egypt, that hasn’t increased in that nation? And the tip top of irony that the ICC puts out a warrant for Gaddafi for crimes against the protestors, and not a word about Assad, who’s killed many more?
I don’t support “Karzai”. He’s an elected official. What I support is they get to elect their leaders. I also support what a spec/ops guy on CNN this morning said. That when the control is wrested from the Taliban and under the Afghan central govt (Karzai at this moment) control, kids are going to school… BOTH genders… and playing in the streets. Women are shopping at the markets, without male escorts. This is a far cry improvement over the Taliban/Afghanistan we entered back in 2001, with the specific quest of regime change (because they harbored terrorists).
The “mission” will only be accomplished, and the “war won” when the Taliban do not control the tribal villages as well. If you and Obama don’t want to accomplish that – each for your own pecular reasons – then say so. But don’t attempt to spin that crap here that “we won”. You support retreat and bugging out, abandoning Afghanistan for the 2nd time.
And BTW, your “god forgive you” bit was a hoot. First of all, God always forgives mankind’s erroneous volition. You know, Christ on the cross? All sins? Have any bible doctrine under your belt at all?
But I doubt God makes you the arbitor of what is considered sins to be forgiven. Personally, I think you should be apologizing to the women, girls and citizens of Afghanistan for cheering on abandonment. Whether they will forgive you or not is their choice. God will always forgive you. I suggest you leave your self annointed pious ‘tudes out of future commentary.
YVAN, TAKE IT EASY, DO YOU NOT SEE THE OTHER WAR HE’S IN?
who said he was anti war? oh ya, JUSHIM, TO MAKE HIS ARGUMENT MORE SOLID,
YOU JUST DON’T PUT THE OTHER IN PERIL, the one who are left behind,
are just been screwed,
and HE has the nerve to call that mission accomplish, false they lied again
Mata, you can blather on day in and day out about how great afghanistan now is (and yes, it is better), but everyone knows, and I hope that includes you, that the last election where Karzai was “elected” was a stolen, illegitimate election.
Thus, again and as it seems always, the US is backing an illegitimate tyrant who rigs elections for his and his family’s benefit.
The mere fact that if we can’t pull out because some 12,000 Taliban will overrun Kabul, defended by over 200,000 ANA troops tells me that the mission isn’t not only NOT accomplished, but it never will.
Don’t you get it? If 12,000 can be outnumbered by over 10 to 1 and still destroy the nation-your analysis, not mine-than it is pointless to continue this FUBAR Goat phuck.
I’d be remiss not to point out your inanities, Ivan.
While you want to get all wrapped up in numbers that mean nothing, perhaps you’ll tell us how many individuals killed over 3000 US citizens on Sept 11th in three different locations. How many suicide bombers did it take to kill 120 at the Afghan hospital? Or perhaps you’ll tell us how many percentile of the Egyptians went up against the Egyptian military for ousting Mubarak, and got that done (with the help of the US CiC). ANd oh, BTW… I never mentioned Taliban/Afghan force size ever. That’s your straw man alone.
Sheer numbers of military forces mean little in this type of warfare.
What is pointless is to spend from 2001 to 2008, nurturing quasi allies in a part of the world filled with former enemies… and then spend the last three alienating, abandoning, and overtly turning against them, throwing them into the arms of Iran and (in the case of Egypt) Palestine.
@MataHarley:
You don’t get it, everyone knows that election was stolen. He isn’t elected, yet he is Afghanistan. Even the Obama administration admitted that the election was stolen.
Dear Lord, if they can see it, why can’t you?
Your ability to engage in congnative dissonance is breathtaking, in the extreme.
Oh yes… “Mr. Civil” resurrects the straw man…. But no worries. I feel no need to run to Curt, whining like a victim as you do.
Now we need to concentrate on if the election is legit? Hey, I don’t know. I wasn’t there. I wasn’t a UN monitor. Neither were you. All we have is the western media that tells us so, and forgive me if I’d don’t put that info in the bank.
But even if it were, what’s the alternative? In fact, I hear a lot of Americans say that the 2000 US POTUS election was “stolen” too. We certainly have our fair share of voter fraud in our own process every election day with felons and dead people voting, and voter intimidation that will not be prosecuted by the AG office at the highest level. So don’t you think your holier than thou attitude is a bit ill placed?
With the Taliban, there were no elections… even legit or illegit ones. And even you admit that Afghanistan is better than it was in some pockets. Just not those still under control of the militants.
So are you finished distracting from your original faux pas? You know, where you said in comment #8:
You’ve taken every tangent path to Kabul to back off from that dumb dumb comment of the day….
@MataHarley:
Yet, you weren’t and aren’t in Afghanistan, but that doesn’t keep you from bloviating ad nauseum about the descion to pull out after the fight is over.
Which are you? Hear no evil or see no evil?
You seem pretty selective about what you want to take away from the media, when it fits your agenda.
I notice you haven’t been able to get the strength to comment on the small number of Taliban compared to the massive Afghan security forces and Army? Why is that?
YVAN, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION KNOW HOW TO RECONNISE A STOLEN ELECTION,
YES SR, they know that game for having played it on the back of the citizen. in 2008, and still trying it for 2012
but we know better now
@Ivan:
Really? The Obama administration said that?
Uh, not so much:
@MataHarley:
Yeah, and you know in a previous thread that I added to that,”as close as we’ll come to winning.”
This isn’t Berlin ’45 or Tokyo of the same year. You’ll never eliminate the Taliban as they are an irregular force. There will be no hoisting the flag over the Reichstag or signing of the surrender documents on the Missouri, Mata.
We’ve established a MASSIVE Afghan military and Security force which outnumbers the Taliban close to 20 to 1.
20 to 1.
I wrote it twice for you, Mata. Yes, we have won, there is NO WAY IN HELL that Taliban can overthrow YOUR corrupt Karzai regime.
Now, I ask you to tell everyone reading how the 12,000 Taliban can win this war given the disparity in numbers.
Ivan, you really are letting your liberal hormones run away with you in desperation, guy. Believing the media as the god of all truth (INRE elections, which Aye points out you didn’t even get that right…) is not even similar to listening to the military generals on the ground, orchestrating the theatre. But nice stab into cyberspace at spin.
Don’t care about how many Afghan military there are in ratio to militants. Again I ask you.. how many terrorists did it take to kill 3000+ US citizens on Sept 11th? How many suicide bombers did it take to kill 120 Afghans in a hospital? How many protesting Egyptian youth – as a percentage of total Egyptian population etal – did it take to overthrow a regime and go up against the Egytian military? In this type of warfare, it taks only a few terrorists with the proper arms and well placed bombs to take out a military company unit, or even perhaps a battalion.
Still waiting for you to recant your dumb dumb statement of the day… “Mata, we won in Afghanistan” Or am I supposed to assume that some other comment in another thread saying “as close as we can come” is your official recant?
Funny… those like you also said that about Iraq. Not perfect, but certainly on it’s way to their own version of a country no longer under a despot, and where the citizens participate in their central government.
YVAN, they can put as much as 100 MILITARYS TO 1 TALIBAN, THAT WILL NEVER WORK WITHOUT THE RIGHT PRESIDENT IN ACTIVATING THE RIGHT ROE OF THIS WAR,
MATA, I’m convice that we should play the same game as the TALIBAN;
it goes like this, a clusterd bomb buried underground by the ennemies, against
a clusterds of bombs thrown at them from our plane,
a massive weaponry targetted to them and those hiding them.
a massive destruction of their POPPYFIELDS NEVER TO BE RECOVER,
A TOTAL EXIT FROM ALL TROUPS IN ONE SHOT, NO ONE LEFT BEHIND, EXCEPT A TOTAL DESTRUCTION OF THE KNOWN HABITHAT OF THE ENNEMIES WITHOUT ANY WARNING.
ALL WITHIN 3 DAYS
I wonder just how many card-carrying ”Taliban” there are.
There are the Afghani Taliban directly under Mullah Mohammad Omar.
12,000?
Maybe.
But there are also the Pakistani Taliban also called the Tehrik-e-Taliban (TTP), or Taliban Movement of Pakistan, which swears allegiance to Afghan Taliban leader Mullah Mohammad Omar, is blamed for many of the suicide bombings across the country and remains highly dangerous despite a series of army offensives against its strongholds in the north-west of the country, on the Afghan border.
That group claimed responsibility for the botched car bomb attack in New York’s Times Square last year.
Add to them the Iranian Taliban.
And the Russian Taliban.
The Punjab Taliban.
The Afghani opium growers Taliban.
The Kashmiri Taliban.
And who’s to know when or if an ex-Taliban leader, like Mullah Abdul Salaam Alizai, who supposedly defected to join the Aghani government, might not show his true colors once we are gone?
How many followers does he have inside Afghanistan’s government?
@Ivan:
If “we’ve won in Afghanistan” why are uniformed troops still dying there by the dozens each month?
http://www.icasualties.org/OEF/ByMonth.aspx
Good heavens, Ivan… poor soul. Suffering from eyesight problems in addition to all your other mental ailments?
I’ve addressed the strawman YOU brought up as a desperate feint both@ in my comment # 16, and again in @ my response in #24.
Perhaps you’ll be good enough to explain why you believe it’s impossible for such a small number or percentage of the population to seize control of a government or nation, or to wage successful battles in war?
Nan G,
one that could give us an answer is OBAMA and KARSEI, he’s making a deal with them in the process now since a year or more so,
MAYBE THE RECALL OF TROUPS COME FROM A DEMAND OF TALIBAN AS A FIRT PREROGATIVE, TO CONTINUE TALKS
Oh my, Aye… actually, here’s a slight update to that chart from you link.
Let’s see… a total of eight years under CiC Bush was 979 fatalities. Three years under CiC Obama, and the total of fatalities are 1508. Avg annually 2001-2008 was 122 fatalities. Avg annually under Obama is 502 fatalities… a remarkable “success” record of a 311.5% increase in deaths annually.
No wonder Obama wants to bug out… he picked the wrong path, ignoring generals advice and shorting them what they needed… so now he wants to declare “mission accomplished” and bug out.
And he’s got people like Ivan thinking that’s true.
Do ya think there’s something in the drinking water, folks?
Aye Chihuahua… one
Ivan…. nothing
@Aye:
It’s called an “increased tempo”of operations. More troops, more casualties.
I’m still waiting for you, or Mata, to tell me how 12K taliban can overthrow the Afghan government if we leave.
Well, Ivan… unless you return to 8th grade to pick up some reading skills, I’ll guess you’ll have to wait quite a long time. Because I’ve already addressed your strawman, for the third time, @in comment #29.
You, however, are still trying to play the distraction game, refuse to respond, and still claim “victory” with a 311.5% increase in fatalities average annually just since this CiC took command of our military.
You actually make a very good, whiny liberal, ya know.
YVAN, they put a belt on children to enter the facility, and they hold the remote so to be ready for killing 30 per child’s belt, now calculate this very carefuly.
When our troops are hamstrung by ROEs that order them not to shoot at anyone who is shooting at them, then drops his weapon, is it any wonder we are experiencing more military losses?
All those Taliban fighters learn the rules, follow them then live to fight another day.
OUR men and women take the shots, get hit but cannot strike back.
Anyone who calls that an ”increased tempo” is on the side of the Taliban.
The Taliban must love every word and order out of Obama’s ”weak horse” mouth.
More current despising of even a Muslim ”weak horse” by Muslim Egyptian leader, Salafi Shaykh Muhammad Hassan.
Video here.
Yeah, Nan G… that “increased tempo” bit really made me laugh. Add 30,000 troops to the existing 71,000 US soldiers already in Afghanistan, and the deaths go up 311.5%?
Closet libs like Ivan never were good at math.
Then of course there’s the pesky fact that, like the spec ops guy on CNN said today, it takes about 5-6 support military staff for every soldier there. So what percentage of the 30K troops sent were front line fighters vs support? Maybe the all knowing “Ivan/increased tempo guru” will find a way to spin that.
I do believe that all who were went came under the command of NATO, and thereby their nanny ROEs. But then all but about 13,000 of them have been under NATO since their increasing control over the war, culminating in full security assumption as of 2006. So I wouldn’t say that NATO ROE’s is the main factor in the increased deaths.
I didn’t see this answer as unlike you, I’m not working at the computer, I’m sanding the outside for an eventual painting. just coming in here on breaks.
Your answer is a non-answer. You’re discussing military strategy, not some black-swan event like 9/11 or the Egyptians kicking Mubark out.
Again, let me ask you, how can 12,000 Taliban overcome 240,000+ Afghan forces. Outline it, in detail.
you can’t.
You just disqualified yourself from further discussion with this ignorant statement.
Go back to baking cookies, okay?
My my, Ivan… when you’re a sore loser, your hatred of women really boils to the surface, eh? Still can’t figure out that this type of warfare isn’t an apples to apples troop size number, but you’ll keep pushing it just to dodge your “Mata, we won in Afghanistan” dumb dumb statement?
BWAHAHAHAHA
BTW, Ivan… how do you think that Fidel Castro, and his rebel force that averaged less than 200 fighters, managed to overthrow the Cuban government with a military of 30 to 40 thousand in strength?
duh
While we’re at it, how did one guy manage to kill 13 and wound 29 at Ft. Hood, on a US base on US soil? Wasn’t he “outnumbered”?
well duh again
Why don’t you tell us how a small percentage of Egyptians managed to oust Mubarak, and the Yemenis to Saleh? Weren’t they outnumbered?
Still waiting for your justification of “we won” with the massive increase of fatalities that isn’t abating. Or will you and your attempt at exhibiting non existant testosterone still toss out strawmen and insults instead?
YVAN, your link, also mentionned of the large numbers of
DEFECTIONS IN THE AFGHAN TROOPS,
THOSE could be the one shooting back at the allies, troops and still wearing their
uniforms to mingle within and shoot in their back.
and do not discount the sympathiser of the TALIBAN
WHO ARE MAKING MONEY TO HELP THEM,
they are even more dangerous because they hide under civiliens,
everyday behavior as normal along with their parcipitating ‘s family children included, those poor children holding the clusterd bombs while the father is digging and his wife holding the detonaters
our soldier don’t have that help, don’t they?
so add this up on your 12000, and double it because of the clandestanity
giving an extra danger to the military,
@Ivan:
Nah, it’s called failing to answer the question I posed.
Here it is again for easy reference:
If indeed “we’ve won in Afghanistan” as you claim, the resulting cessation of hostilities would be reflected by a casualty level of zero.
You’re really not that good at this.
Aye Chihuahua – two
Ivan – zip, nada, nothing
This just in:
Top hotel in Kabul attacked by suicide bombers
This happened in Kabul, Afghanistan, a place where “we’ve won” according to Ivan….
Yep…those darned facts keep intruding on his alternate reality.
@MataHarley:
While you’ re at it…be sure to include the massive victory that the Soviets achieved over the Afghanis simply because of their sheer numbers.
Oh. You mean they didn’t win?
Another Ivan theory blown right to hell.
How silly of me to overlook the Soviet/Afghan war, Aye. I musta been busy baking those cookies…. LOL
Hey Ivan –
The American Colonies were vastly outnumbered, outgunned and faced an enemy that had deep pockets, but hey we became the United STATES of America.
The history of the world is rife with stories of small contingents of fighters over taking and winning against enemies of greater numbers, superior weapons, etc…
Maybe World History isn’t your forte…
AYE,
hi,
imagine those chart where for JUNE 2011,
HERE NOVEMBER 2nd, how many more died or disabled for life,?
and the ROE is still the same, is in it? plus OBAMA WANT TO TALK WITH ENEMY LEADER OMAR,
DON’T THE PENTAGON, have their own saying on that matter?
CAN’T they make decisions on their own, if they know the orders they have are not right for the troops and for the course of this war, wich lasted so many years now, it should have tell the PENTAGONE to exalerate the means to achieve an ending faforebly for that COUNTRY ALONG A SAFE ROE FOR THE TROOPS, which need to come back fitted to joinned the AMERICAN DREAM after so many years given to protect the AMERICA, they deserve more than the PRESIDENT
did the MILITARY IN THE COMMAND REMEMBER THE OATH TO THE FLAG, NOT TO THE PRESIDENT
IF HE GIVE ORDER THAT IS NOT JUDGE SANE AND RIGHT FOR THE TROOPS, OR THE CONDUCT OF THE WAR