Just when you think there is no hope for some, and that catastrophic events will *always* be used by activists to promote an agenda, we find we can be pleasantly surprised. Case in point, English environmental activist and ArrestBlair website founder, George Monbiot, may have raised more than a few eyebrows when he penned an article, delineating a complete turn around on nuclear power plants in UK’s The Guardian today.
One has to give some thumbs up to an adversary who is willing to do a major, public mea culpa, telling the world in a succinct bold headline, “Why Fukushima made me stop worrying and love nuclear power”. It appears that Japan’s woes and battles have actually sold him on an energy source that he was tepid on prior to the earthquake and tsunami.
You will not be surprised to hear that the events in Japan have changed my view of nuclear power. You will be surprised to hear how they have changed it. As a result of the disaster at Fukushima, I am no longer nuclear-neutral. I now support the technology.
A crappy old plant with inadequate safety features was hit by a monster earthquake and a vast tsunami. The electricity supply failed, knocking out the cooling system. The reactors began to explode and melt down. The disaster exposed a familiar legacy of poor design and corner-cutting. Yet, as far as we know, no one has yet received a lethal dose of radiation.
Some greens have wildly exaggerated the dangers of radioactive pollution. For a clearer view, look at the graphic published by xkcd.com. It shows that the average total dose from the Three Mile Island disaster for someone living within 10 miles of the plant was one 625th of the maximum yearly amount permitted for US radiation workers. This, in turn, is half of the lowest one-year dose clearly linked to an increased cancer risk, which, in its turn, is one 80th of an invariably fatal exposure. I’m not proposing complacency here. I am proposing perspective.
~~~Yes, I still loathe the liars who run the nuclear industry. Yes, I would prefer to see the entire sector shut down, if there were harmless alternatives. But there are no ideal solutions. Every energy technology carries a cost; so does the absence of energy technologies. Atomic energy has just been subjected to one of the harshest of possible tests, and the impact on people and the planet has been small. The crisis at Fukushima has converted me to the cause of nuclear power.
If you’re not familiar with Mr. Monbiot, Wiki gives the basic run down… including authorship of multiple environmental activist books, such as his 2008 offer, “Bring on the Apocalypse: Six Arguments for Global Justice”. His stance on war is certainly obvious, as I mentioned above, when he not only founded ArrestBlair.org, but offered a reward for anyone willing to do a peaceful arrest of the former UK PM, Tony Blair, so he could be brought to trial for crimes against humanity. And just to show others he wasn’t adverse to doing the deed himself, he did attempt a similar citizen’s arrest of John Bolton in 2008 for the same reasoning.
Needless to say, on this forum, it’s likely that few of us will find common ground with Monbiot. But then, we can celebrate the small things and accomplishments when we find a formerly staunch opponent, admitting his errors. It’s one more sane voice that reenters the debate.
That said, Mr. Monbiot not only deserves credit for his new revelations on nuclear power, but for past mea culpas that reversed his activism for veganism. It was only this past September that he found himself in the pecular position of endorsing the book, “Meat: A Benign Extravagance,”> that ran contrary to his beliefs for both the world’s grain supply vs human malnutrition, and his ill-informed assumptions on slaughtering tecniques and the perceived water “waste”. Mr. Monbiot is having a truly interesting year that shakes the foundation of his beliefs.
Kudos to him, and here’s to more possibilities that others can see the light. We can only hope it doesn’t take something as dire and desperate as the Japanese had to endure in order to provide that enlightenment to others in the future.
Unrelated to Monbiot, but applicable to those trying to place a more realistic perspective on Japan’s woes with the power plant events is Jeffrey Lord at The American Spectator. Lord, and his parents, are local denizens of the Three Mile Island nuclear power plant that is, to this day, still chugging along.
Vietnam era Navy wife, indy/conservative, and an official California escapee now residing as a red speck in the sea of Oregon blue.
While we are on the subject of Ballistic Chicken, I have a great website with lots of information for those among us who have an over active paranoia gland.
http://weeklyworldnews.com
They have an article about how Iran has built the first flying saucer, is it over for the free world as we know it?
@Zac…. LOL! That site is hilarious. Another “onion’esque” type place for humor.
Mata said,
There you go, again. Just because I’m concerned doesn’t mean I’m “panicked.” I worry for Hokkaido and the rest of Japan, though, given that they’ve started expanding the evacuation zone to 20 miles.
Do you understand how serious this is? This isn’t the media and hype, it’s the government forcing people to leave their homes
Here:
Now let me expalin how the Japanese operate, oh queen of the Tokyo water mains! ;->
They don’t come out and announce that something has failed or will fail, they say,”We THINK it will fail,” or “We don’t THINK it will work.” It’s about saving face. They don’t admit they screwed up.
They don’t discuss bad news the same way you or I would. You have to learn to read between their lines. Bascially, unless proven otherwise, it would be wise to assume that reactor #3 has been compromised by what they are saying.
No, Ivan, they have not “expanded the evacuation zone” due to radiation concerns, but for supply concerns as of today. You again are getting ahead of yourself. And speaking of hyperbole, a “voluntary evacuation” for supplies is not the government “forcing” people to leave them homes.
Then, to attempt to redeem your hysteria and exaggerations, you then lecture me on Japanese culture (of which I am intimately familiar) by reading between the lines, and ignore the actual facts at the plant that the pressure and temperature is stable, and at this writing there is no notable rise in the level.
Thanks… I’ll take the stats and ignore your omnipotent reading between the lines, thank you.
You make my point about hysteria quite nicely. Thanks for the help.
Supply concerns?? What?
“Speaking to a national audience at a news conference Friday night two weeks after the magnitude 9.0 earthquake and the devastating tsunami that followed it, Prime Minister Naoto Kan dodged a reporter’s question about whether the government was ordering a full evacuation, saying officials were simply following the recommendation of the Japan Nuclear Safety Commission.
“The situation still requires caution,” Mr. Kan, grave and tired-looking, told the nation. “Our measures are aimed at preventing the circumstances from getting worse.” The authorities said that they would now assist people who want to leave the area from 12 to 19 miles outside the plant and that they were now encouraging “voluntary evacuation” from the area. Those people had been advised March 15 to remain indoors, while those within a 12-mile radius of the plant had been ordered to evacuate.”
Did you mean “Supply of breathable air” concerns? Honestly, you don’t see the situation as deteriorating?
Hey… make up your own “between the lines” news, Ivan. You apparently prefer that. I go on both plant conditions and official statements. I’m sure you hope for a “gotcha” moment. Me? I hope they are correct in their statements. I’d say our priorities are completely different.
@ Ivan, MAta will conflate issues and call you chicken little, or that you are buying Geiger counters etc, etc, etc… to deflect from the real situation on the ground and make verbose exaggerated claims against you. This tactic takes away real exchange and sucks the oxygen out of your argument as you are always left defending the strawmen she builds (effectively). She complains about the hype, and then will hype anything that “proves” her case (to minimize the impact of this situation), which is fine, she is advocating a partisan position, not being impartial but she represents herself as impartial.
Ya mean like facts and stats vs “read between the lines, Mata” retorts? uh huh….
Actually, you’re wrong about our priorities. I pray you’re correct and that I’m mistaken. I just can’t believe “official proclamations” given that we’ve been lied to over and over again. You, on the other hand, willingly chow down on the pablum that TEPCO and Tokyo give you.
And no, I don’t care for that gotcha moment that we both know is coming. I’m through with this thread.
Let’s go beat up Obama on some other thread like that that has become the national past-time.
I’m aware you can’t “believe official proclamations”, Ivan. The difference between you and I is you are willing to go the opposite direction and put your faith in the media.
In the end, I read the official proclamations, weigh actual plant conditions (i.e. pressure. readings temperatures and accommodating for the predictable ups and downs) and go from there. I try not to swing either too confident, knowing this is an hour by hour, day by day endeavor, and not slide off into the deep end of doom via every unconfirmed “maybe” media report. Nor will I read between the lines for speculation.
I assure you, if you were correct in your core’s melted, containment structure is history, air is unbreathable statements and claims today, that could not be hidden from the world of reality long.
BTW, Ivan… aren’t you and blast sad you can’t vote dislikes more than once? LOL Me? I love collecting ’em. Have at it!
We’re way past discussing this issue in a substantative manner, Mata.
Why not start a weekend thread where we discuss Palin falling to #3 with Gingrich about to pass her?
Oh, that doesn’t go well with the Palin sycophants here on FA though so we won’t dicuss her fall in the polls.
Talk about unsubstantative, Ivan. An off topic distraction, followed by a blindly tossed dig at whomever.
Not only do you not read between the lines, you can’t take a hint. I told you #86 that I was done with this thread, yet you keep addressing me.
Bored now! Or do you want to talk about Palin’s fall?
March 28th, 2011:
HIGHLY radioactive water, endangering workers and hindering repair efforts at the Fukushima nuclear plant, was the result of a “partial meltdown” of the fuel rods in the plant’s No 2 reactor, Japan’s chief government spokesman admitted yesterday.
In TEPCO’s latest blunder, …..Mr Edano condemned the company, which failed to warn three workers about highly radioactive water before they stepped in it, for releasing the erroneous radiation data……this kind of mistake is absolutely unacceptable,” he said.
……More than 600 people are working inside the plant in short shifts to minimise their exposure to radioactivity.
(So much for the idea of a Fukashima 50)
They may have to give up on the plan to store all of the radiated water because all of the storage tanks are full.
More here:
The Australian
Nan G, wow this is getting out of control in JAPAN, I kept in mind the sea water being radioactive,
and a question like everyone would get, is what happen to the sea living being,
what happen to the boat big or small that floats on those waters, I wonder where the currant will bring those sea waters, or will the radioactivity will depose itself , will it sink into the debt of the OCEANS,
to always stay stagnant within the location they sinked if they do, and that location, will it be large
and extending on a wider surface in the debt, surely invisible to to the eye, of humans and living sea habitants big as the WHALES or minute as the corals life
thank’s for the info.
@ILOVEBEESWARZONE,
seems like you are being a big “hysterical” (as MAta was claiming I was, and Ivan). I wonder why she is not attacking you for being an alarmist?
Never mind. Just a rhetorical question.
Tired of responding you all of your every “up to the minute” updates, blast. That’s why. Generally, when you guys forecast Armaggedon, a couple of days pass and the sky hasn’t fallen yet. Time is the only true answer for all your individual fears. I do have other things to attend to in my life, then providing you with something other than your favorite media’s headlines of doom and gloom.
Funny that Nan G, you or Ivan didn’t comment on the plutonium measurements in the soil. The started that last week. That’s something I consider more serious, and must be remedied forthwith. Of course the trick is still to find out if it’s coming from the venting from Unit 3, or something else…. as Michael Friendlander was noting.
As far as the water… old story. Not new. They discovered more hot water in Unit 2, which was the story along with the plutonium levels in the soil. Again, we still don’t know the sources.
The soil must be taken care of quickly. However the source also needs to be found. It’s not yet determined. Just the latest measurements in a very tough situation for Japan.
So I hear that there was radiation levels measured in MA rainfall… you all got your bunkers squared away yet?
Blast, you’r being cynical, don’t pick on MATA AGAIN,
BAD BOY,is there anyone around you to spank you for me?
or I will
Now Bees… don’t take away my amusement of return beating on blast, girl. :0)
To answer your question, blast… Bees isn’t beginning hysteria. She is merely responding to hysterical news alerts that don’t frame it within the rest of the situation, or whether it’s a new development or just a new discovery of an old development. Meaning it’s been around awhile. This differs from you, Ivan and Nan G.
MATA, hi, Is’n it from the rods breakage in the bowl?
Bees, I swear, your translation turns of phrases do make me smile. I do know what you mean. Is the source the spent fuel rod pools. The short answer is “some”.
Radiation has a “footprint”. So they can tell what comes from which particular source. They do know that much of the radioactive water to the sea comes from that source.
The longer answer is each poll of water has a different footprint, and so they have to investigate each one as they happen upon it. The lates water in Unit 2 was found in a tunnel type passage that normally holds cables. They do not know how it got there.
They started testing soils last week for plutonium. There is no level of that that is happy news, but is a possibility because of Unit 3’s construction. What we do not know is the source… i.e. Ivan’s vow that it’s a breach, or part of the venting of steam or release of pressure. All are possibilities. Hard to comment on much more until they determine the source. Can’t even say it’s a new development. Just the latest development they’ve gotten too. There’s so much going on that they can’t do everything, in all directions, at one time. After all, they only got power to the site just a couple of days ago to run instrumentation in the control rooms, and to try and get the pump/coolant systems to work automatically instead of manually putting water on when they had the resources.
MATA, my heart goes with them, hoping they resolve the multiple problems happening,
in a follow up order, just like a crashing domino,that they are expert at setting up, so the tinking process should be the same as resetting the crash dominos ,one by one, but they must have the knowledge of how do you start ressetting the dominos in their exact positions as before, tedious job too,
and you have to wait till all dominos are down before beginning
@ ilovebeeswarzone,
I am actually very skeptical beez, I have said so often in these threads.
I always like a good spanking. 😉
@MAta,
Actually MAta, you need to call out NanG and ilovebeeswarzone for being the alarmists on this point. Funny how you only addressed me in this and I said nothing about it.
@MataHarley:
I thought that was very interesting when I read how each pool’s radiation level was so different, too, Mata.
Didn’t want to be ”alarmist” and post it over here, though, LOL!
I had also seen reports that plutonium was found in several soil samples near the reactors.
I thought the Australian’s coverage was quite good.
It did, however, punch one of your buttons when it said, ”In TEPCO’s latest blunder, …..”
I knew I was asking for it.
LOL!
Now, I only heard about this yesterday, but supposedly one of the USS carriers was (several days ago) swabbing its decks with fresh water to get the radiation off them.
Isn’t a carrier’s fresh water made from sea water in an on-board converter?
Surely that thing cannot filter out radiation.
Didn’t punch my buttons, Nan G. It punched Bees, as she thought it was significant downhill. I see it as the expected steps forward, steps backward we’re going to see.
But I see you and your buds still want to tie this somehow to my opinion of TEPCO. As far as I can tell, their employees are doing magnificently on the scene. As far as the company’s reporting, they are only one of several that are weighing in daily. So I don’t consider their imput over or above anyone elses. So sorry to disappoint you.
No clue what your point is about the carrier. Radiation in the air? Such a surprise… not. I would guess that since radiation is not kind to any kind of electronics, etc, they’d want it off all surfaces so that it doesn’t attach itself to an individual and travel into susceptible areas. Rather like cold germs on your hands, perhaps? Not sure it matters much in the scheme of import. But whatever.
Nan G, hi, where did the radiation go? did it go back in the sea? or was it sucked into
the componant which turn the sea water in fresh water drinkeble, if so, the radiation must have depose itself in that componant, and how will they get the componant free from radiation,
the domino effect in reverse
Bees, there’s all different kinds, and degrees of radiation. That’s what we mean when we say that radiation has a “footprint”. For example, some of the radioactive water has been dumping into the sea. They ID’d those components of the radiation as likely being from the spent fuel rods pools. And you have to remember that, when they did not have power and an operative cooling system, they were dumping water onto areas from a helicopter. That means there is no focused control to the water… where it goes, what it hits or where it runs off. No accuracy or control.
Other radiation is released into the air. It can fall to the ground via rainfall, or just because of atmospheric conditions. This is why they find measureable amounts in the radius around the power plant…. from radioactive venting into the air, and it traveling over the land space and falling to the ground. This is why both foodstuff, air samples and even seafood taken from close the area should be monitored and avoided for consumption by humans or animals.
For both the sea and the air, the concentration is strongest in the areas closest to the power plant. It dissipates the father it gets from the site. Get’s “watered down”, so to speak, to the point it is harmless.
There are radioactive elements that are more harmful than others, both in intensity and in longevity. The plutonium in the soil is, at this moment, my biggest focus. They have two things to accomplish there. Find the source, and remove/dispose of as much of that plutonium as possible. I don’t know how much is there, and if it’s concentrated just in the plant area. We only know that some soil areas around the plant indicate it’s present. The optimum result is that it’s from the steam venting and pressure release… as optimum as these things get, that is.
MATA, sorry I had to go to bed, was too late for me to stay up, thank you for the explanation, I can more understand what my concerns was, as none like you can elaborate so much into a subject,
bye
I wonder how they can remove the PLUTONIUM, And where do they dump it