Yes, and where in the Constitution does it say they have a right to send people to jail for not buying health insurance?
Liam
15 years ago
anytime you can’t answer a question head-on, there is reason to believe….
ThomNJ
15 years ago
YEAH, and we currently participate regarding those who show up wittout insurance at the emergency room – we do our part by paying taxes that cover this stuff – the only difference now is that the government wants to continue the taxes AND punish those they deem capable of affording healthcare insurance…unless you are illegal of course. Basically, the people who don’t want health insurance now pay their own way, and I support that. I would prefer no insurance and health savings accounts or pay my own way + catastrophic insurance or at least portable-and-take-it-across-state-lines health insurance to the crap the Congress is proposing. And Bill Clinton is wrong in saying that to do nothing is bad versus doing something that we can fix later….gee, the law of unintended consequences won’t apply? (or in this case, INTENDED consequences) The bill is deliberatley written to “encourage” small employers and private enterprise to dump their employees into the goernment pool – I know that where I work, the owners will likely make an economic decision – and why wouldn’t they? – to dump us into the govt pool for $400 per person rather than the thousands per person it will cost them to continue to offer a health plan.
I am apalled. It doesn’t say anything about requiring health care insurance in the constitution and it wasn’t meant to. The natural consequence to not having health care insurance is getting sick and having money problems. NOT going to jail. I don’t care if they’re Democrats, they don’t care about the common people, just their own Nobel prizes… cough cough Obama…
Hankster58
15 years ago
Since WHEN did a Liberal Democrat give a darn about the “legality” or “Constitutionality” of ANYTHING?!?!?!
On the flip side, this would be a great way to solve the homeless problem in this country. Not one of them will have adequate health insurance or be willing to purchase it..so off to jail they go.
Hankster58
15 years ago
😉 never looked at it that way!! LOL!!
Conrad
15 years ago
@Ashley: It doesn’t say anything in the constitution about drunk driving either, nor does it say anything in the constitution about everyone having to have car insurance. Or what about a fire department? Should we get rid of those things?
@Skye: Under the house bill if you are below the poverty line you don’t have to buy health insurance. Medicaid will cover you.
@Hankster: They are passing this bill into law. Congress decides what is legal and the supreme court decides if it violates the constitution. If they pass this bill it will be law. “legality” doesn’t even enter into this. “Constitutionality” is meant to be left to the supreme court. That is their job to decide. I can promise you there will be many challenges to the constitutionality of this bill.
In general as a country we do not have a succesful health care system. Of the World Health Organization’s (WHO) list of industrialized nations, we are ranked as having the worst health care system. Of that list we rank at the bottom for infant mortality and life expectancy. Furthermore, as a percentage of GDP we pay more than any other country in the world. Something is definitely wrong with that statistic. France and Italy, who rank in the top two spots for health care systems, pay between 7 and 9% of their GDP towards health care. We pay nearly 16% of our GDP. That to me is a broken health care system.
Just to clarify, I don’t think this bill will fix the problems in the system.
It doesn’t say anything in the constitution about drunk driving either,
The Declaration of Independence speaks of our right to right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The Constitution establishes restrictions on the Federal Gov’t which guarantee and protect those rights.
Drunk driving, while not restricted by the US Constitution, is deemed to create a risk of physical harm or property loss to others, thus its’ illegal under state law.
nor does it say anything in the constitution about everyone having to have car insurance.
No, “everyone” is not required to have car insurance. Those who own (and drive) automobiles on public roadways are required to have insurance to protect, wait for it….(1) the person(s) that they may have a collision with, or (2) those who have a financial interest in the vehicle i.e. the lien holder.
Or what about a fire department?
State and/or local issue.
Under the house bill if you are below the poverty line you don’t have to buy health insurance. Medicaid will cover you.
Medicaid and/or state programs already cover people below the poverty line.
The legislation currently under consideration is not needed to cover those below poverty levels.
Irrelevant point.
Congress decides what is legal and the supreme court decides if it violates the constitution. If they pass this bill it will be law. “legality” doesn’t even enter into this. “Constitutionality” is meant to be left to the supreme court. That is their job to decide.
If the preservation, support, and defense of the US Constitution is not a part of the job of a member of Congress then why is it part of their oath of office?
I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same;
Finally, “Constitutionality” is NOT a duty relegated to SCOTUS alone. The entire Federal Court system is involved in those decisions.
Something is definitely wrong with that statistic.
Yes, you’re right. Something is wrong with several of your quoted statistics, not the least of which is the fact that you have fallen victim to the infant mortality lie.
Here is some reference material for you to bring you up to speed.
The remainder of your post is filled with equally faulty statistics that don’t really mean what you think they mean.
Just to clarify, I don’t think this bill will fix the problems in the system.
On that point, we agree.
For your efforts overall, I give you a good, solid
B+
Donald Bly
15 years ago
@ Ashley…. be carefull, if you turn your head and cough and you were a man… that would be a medical procedure and you’d probably be denied treatment.
Donald Bly
15 years ago
Why not just exempt medical bills from being included in bankruptcy proceedings if the individual did not have health insurance at the time of treatment.
Make them pay their bills… but for heavens sake, don’t put people in jail. This is insanity. Prelude to a police state.
Hankster58
15 years ago
Conrad says…
In general as a country we do not have a successful health care system.
Really! Most new drugs, treatments etc come from here…. Virtually all rich folk or foreign Dignitaries that need serious medical treatment ..go where??? Ain’t Cuba!
Of the World Health Organization’s (WHO) list of industrialized nations, we are ranked as having the worst health care system.
A UN style bastard child….great basis for “facts”…. consider this, the U.S. is not like ANY other nation!! WE are independent…. we are (well up until lately) NOT “socialized”. like most other nations, so these comparison’s are apples and oranges!
Of that list we rank at the bottom for infant mortality and life expectancy.
Ghetto moms having kids they have no business bringing into the world?? No job, no income other than the dole… yes, they will get lesser care… and whose FAULT is it?? THEIRS!!
In a FREE society, you are free to be smart, or free to be STUPID… Liberals want the SMART to PAY TO FIX the STUPID… sorry in in a free society… it’s not our “job”…. tho you fail to note we are the MOST CHARITABLE… also as a FREE people, we are FREE to eat BAD stuff!! Not good, not SMART, but you want a big mac a day… you are free to to so, now if it clogs your arteries later… that’s BAD, but it was also YOUR CHOICE! The unfortunate by-product if free choice… but one most would RATHER live with!!
Furthermore, as a percentage of GDP we pay more than any other country in the world.
Too many Gov regs perhaps??? Maybe if they let Ins companies sell state to state??? Got the “ambulance chasers” off DR.s backs?? TORT REFORM?!?!?!?! Also, addressing the POOR…. you know how many doctors would give FREE service to those without, if the GOV would give them tax CREDITS for doing so???
Something is definitely wrong with that statistic. France and Italy, who rank in the top two spots for health care systems, pay between 7 and 9% of their GDP towards health care.
2 socialist nations again…. like it?? Move there!!
We pay nearly 16% of our GDP. That to me is a broken health care system.
Again, see above??? there are a MULTITUDE of ways to drop costs, get those on the bottom better help, WITHOUT the Government getting involved, or using TAX money to pay for it.
This has NOTHING to do with getting care out there, I already named SEVERAL ways to to it, GOV FREE!! This has EVERYTHING to do with POWER!! Political POWER and CONTROL!!
All other options have been ignored on the hill, THEN the Dems have the gall to call the right “the party of NO??” the TRUTH is, the LEFT is the “Party of ME”!!!! ME ME ME!! it’s all about them, we the taxpayers are just a means to it….
antoinette mccrea
14 years ago
I’m just trying to pay my gas and electric bill
Donald Bly
14 years ago
Medical Care while in jail is FREE…. free to you…. but a tax on us. I’m thinking prison might be my best retirement option when I’m old and feeble. Once ED has run its course and conjugal visits are no longer a concern…
Yes, and where in the Constitution does it say they have a right to send people to jail for not buying health insurance?
anytime you can’t answer a question head-on, there is reason to believe….
YEAH, and we currently participate regarding those who show up wittout insurance at the emergency room – we do our part by paying taxes that cover this stuff – the only difference now is that the government wants to continue the taxes AND punish those they deem capable of affording healthcare insurance…unless you are illegal of course. Basically, the people who don’t want health insurance now pay their own way, and I support that. I would prefer no insurance and health savings accounts or pay my own way + catastrophic insurance or at least portable-and-take-it-across-state-lines health insurance to the crap the Congress is proposing. And Bill Clinton is wrong in saying that to do nothing is bad versus doing something that we can fix later….gee, the law of unintended consequences won’t apply? (or in this case, INTENDED consequences) The bill is deliberatley written to “encourage” small employers and private enterprise to dump their employees into the goernment pool – I know that where I work, the owners will likely make an economic decision – and why wouldn’t they? – to dump us into the govt pool for $400 per person rather than the thousands per person it will cost them to continue to offer a health plan.
I am apalled. It doesn’t say anything about requiring health care insurance in the constitution and it wasn’t meant to. The natural consequence to not having health care insurance is getting sick and having money problems. NOT going to jail. I don’t care if they’re Democrats, they don’t care about the common people, just their own Nobel prizes… cough cough Obama…
Since WHEN did a Liberal Democrat give a darn about the “legality” or “Constitutionality” of ANYTHING?!?!?!
On the flip side, this would be a great way to solve the homeless problem in this country. Not one of them will have adequate health insurance or be willing to purchase it..so off to jail they go.
😉 never looked at it that way!! LOL!!
@Ashley: It doesn’t say anything in the constitution about drunk driving either, nor does it say anything in the constitution about everyone having to have car insurance. Or what about a fire department? Should we get rid of those things?
@Skye: Under the house bill if you are below the poverty line you don’t have to buy health insurance. Medicaid will cover you.
@Hankster: They are passing this bill into law. Congress decides what is legal and the supreme court decides if it violates the constitution. If they pass this bill it will be law. “legality” doesn’t even enter into this. “Constitutionality” is meant to be left to the supreme court. That is their job to decide. I can promise you there will be many challenges to the constitutionality of this bill.
In general as a country we do not have a succesful health care system. Of the World Health Organization’s (WHO) list of industrialized nations, we are ranked as having the worst health care system. Of that list we rank at the bottom for infant mortality and life expectancy. Furthermore, as a percentage of GDP we pay more than any other country in the world. Something is definitely wrong with that statistic. France and Italy, who rank in the top two spots for health care systems, pay between 7 and 9% of their GDP towards health care. We pay nearly 16% of our GDP. That to me is a broken health care system.
Just to clarify, I don’t think this bill will fix the problems in the system.
The Declaration of Independence speaks of our right to right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The Constitution establishes restrictions on the Federal Gov’t which guarantee and protect those rights.
Drunk driving, while not restricted by the US Constitution, is deemed to create a risk of physical harm or property loss to others, thus its’ illegal under state law.
No, “everyone” is not required to have car insurance. Those who own (and drive) automobiles on public roadways are required to have insurance to protect, wait for it….(1) the person(s) that they may have a collision with, or (2) those who have a financial interest in the vehicle i.e. the lien holder.
State and/or local issue.
Medicaid and/or state programs already cover people below the poverty line.
The legislation currently under consideration is not needed to cover those below poverty levels.
Irrelevant point.
Ummm, not quite.
Congress is the Legislative Branch. They create law. They must filter the legislation that they write through the words, provisions, and restrictions of the US Constitution hence the review that occurred in the US Senate yesterday and today.
If the preservation, support, and defense of the US Constitution is not a part of the job of a member of Congress then why is it part of their oath of office?
Finally, “Constitutionality” is NOT a duty relegated to SCOTUS alone. The entire Federal Court system is involved in those decisions.
Yes, you’re right. Something is wrong with several of your quoted statistics, not the least of which is the fact that you have fallen victim to the infant mortality lie.
Here is some reference material for you to bring you up to speed.
And here.
And here.
And here.
And here.
And here.
The remainder of your post is filled with equally faulty statistics that don’t really mean what you think they mean.
On that point, we agree.
For your efforts overall, I give you a good, solid
@ Ashley…. be carefull, if you turn your head and cough and you were a man… that would be a medical procedure and you’d probably be denied treatment.
Why not just exempt medical bills from being included in bankruptcy proceedings if the individual did not have health insurance at the time of treatment.
Make them pay their bills… but for heavens sake, don’t put people in jail. This is insanity. Prelude to a police state.
Conrad says…
Really! Most new drugs, treatments etc come from here…. Virtually all rich folk or foreign Dignitaries that need serious medical treatment ..go where??? Ain’t Cuba!
A UN style bastard child….great basis for “facts”…. consider this, the U.S. is not like ANY other nation!! WE are independent…. we are (well up until lately) NOT “socialized”. like most other nations, so these comparison’s are apples and oranges!
Ghetto moms having kids they have no business bringing into the world?? No job, no income other than the dole… yes, they will get lesser care… and whose FAULT is it?? THEIRS!!
In a FREE society, you are free to be smart, or free to be STUPID… Liberals want the SMART to PAY TO FIX the STUPID… sorry in in a free society… it’s not our “job”…. tho you fail to note we are the MOST CHARITABLE… also as a FREE people, we are FREE to eat BAD stuff!! Not good, not SMART, but you want a big mac a day… you are free to to so, now if it clogs your arteries later… that’s BAD, but it was also YOUR CHOICE! The unfortunate by-product if free choice… but one most would RATHER live with!!
Too many Gov regs perhaps??? Maybe if they let Ins companies sell state to state??? Got the “ambulance chasers” off DR.s backs?? TORT REFORM?!?!?!?! Also, addressing the POOR…. you know how many doctors would give FREE service to those without, if the GOV would give them tax CREDITS for doing so???
2 socialist nations again…. like it?? Move there!!
Again, see above??? there are a MULTITUDE of ways to drop costs, get those on the bottom better help, WITHOUT the Government getting involved, or using TAX money to pay for it.
This has NOTHING to do with getting care out there, I already named SEVERAL ways to to it, GOV FREE!! This has EVERYTHING to do with POWER!! Political POWER and CONTROL!!
All other options have been ignored on the hill, THEN the Dems have the gall to call the right “the party of NO??” the TRUTH is, the LEFT is the “Party of ME”!!!! ME ME ME!! it’s all about them, we the taxpayers are just a means to it….
I’m just trying to pay my gas and electric bill
Medical Care while in jail is FREE…. free to you…. but a tax on us. I’m thinking prison might be my best retirement option when I’m old and feeble. Once ED has run its course and conjugal visits are no longer a concern…