Who couldn’t see this happening?
Israel stood firm against demands from Barack Obama on Monday to cease the construction of Jewish settlements and embrace the “two-state solution” to achieving peace in the Middle East.
Every single President believes they can somehow, magically, bring peace to this situation. The only problem has been the Palestinians DO NOT want peace. Never have, never will. Isreal understands this and has survived this long exactly because they understood this. They have given up little concessions, pretty much to expose to the world what the Palestinians really want. A one state solution.
Sitting side by side in the White House, the two leaders hailed the friendship between their two countries but remained far apart on how to proceed towards a resolution of the 60-year conflict between Israel and the Palestinians.
Mr Obama said the Palestinians had to take steps to guarantee Israel’s security – but took a tough line on the construction of settlements on Arab land.
“Israel is going to have to take difficult steps as well,” he said. “There is a clear understanding we have to make progress on settlements. Settlements have to stop.”
~~~There was a conspicuous lack of praise for his 59-year-old Israeli visitor, whom he said had the “benefit of having served” previously as prime minister and for having “both youth and wisdom”.
The meeting overran to two hours, suggesting that the two sides had struggled to find a way of presenting a unified face to the watching world.
Though Mr Netanyahu made clear he wanted to hold peace talks with the Palestinians, he refused to utter the words “two-state solution”, the consensus approach towards peace agreed by previous Israeli governments and US administrations.
Best line from Netanyahu came when he said that any peace deal which places a “terror base next door” is worthless, and won’t happen. He stated Hamas must first recognize Israel AND the Iranian nuclear situation must be dealt with before any peace deals get started.
President Obama — like his predecessors — fails to grasp the basic problem: Palestinians do not want peace.
And until a president realizes that basic fact of life, he is doomed to waste a lot of time, prestige and money chasing that unicorn.
Obama will chase that unicorn for as long as it makes him look good. In the end, that’s all he cares about.
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So basically what you are saying is there is no solution. Neither Israel or the U.S. has the answer.
Flavor, why do the United States or Israel have to have the answer. Why can’t the Palestinians have the answer? I think the Israeli’s have been incredibly gracious in their dealings with the Arab world. If Canada or Mexico pulled just half the crap against us the Arabs pull on Israel daily, we would demolish their countries and install our own government. And rightly so in my opinion.
So the question is, why can’t the Palestinians accept the land with gratitude and recognize Israel’s right to exist in peace?
I’m not criticizing the U.S. or Israel. I support them. But if the Palestinians do not want peace as this post states, that means war forever. Neither the U.S. or Israel have a viable resolution to end this conflict, so where does that leave everyone?
Removing the Palestinians from Gaza will only result in an all attack against Israel from many countries in the middle east…………so what’s the answer?
Everybody criticizes on side or the other, but no one has a solution. Meanwhile innocent lives on both sides continue to be wiped out. Something will have to give eventually. You bomb me I air bomb you can’t continue to be the answer.
IMHO, if the Arab leaders in the area were serious about a two state solution, they would bring pressure to bear on the Palestinians to accept the terms. I don’t believe that to be the case though. I believe the Palesinians are nothing but pawns to the Arab leaders. The Palestinian problem gives other Arab countries a “reason” to hate Israel and launch attacks against them. I don’t believe there ever will be a solution unless the Arab countries eliminate Israel or Israel eliminates them. If you believe the Bible, the Arabs will never be able to win against Israel.
No, what we’re saying is that the Palestinians are refusing to acknwledge Israel’s legitimacy, their right to exist, thereby making any solution other than the destruction of Israel the only possible so-called solution in their eyes. Given this, there is no answer which the Israelis or Americans are failing to come up with. Yet you keep phrasing things in such a way as to lay the blame on them.
If it comes to removing the Palestinians from Gaza for the security of Israel, then so be it. I wouldn’t fault the Israelis for doing so. But whether this then results in an attack by many countries in the Middle East is just your contention. So, in your eyes, either the Israelis accept the Palenstinian solution, namely disband as a country, or they accept that they’ll likely be annihilated by those countries.
So it’s not just that both sides are criticizing each other and that both sides are killing each other. It’s that the Palestinians are out to destroy Israel and nothing short of this is acceptable to them, and Israel wants peace, has made grand gestures towards achieving peace, but has come to realize that the Palestinians mean what they say — that they want nothing short of Israel’s destruction.
In the meanwhile, the Palestinians are murdering mainly innocent Israeli civilians. The Israelis are taking defensive measures against such crimes and outright war acts and killing mainly complicit Palestinian civilians and Hamas scum, so things are hardly the way you characterize them.
But thanks for presenting Obama’s understanding of things for us.
There can be NO Palestinian State because Palestine has No Statesmen. The Pals had opportunities to establish a stable Government but did Not. The Arab States never sent anything their way but weapons, explosives and terror training cadre and fanatics whose fondest wish is for the Pals to be a weapon aimed at Israel’s throat.
Billions of dollars have been sent in aid over the years. No infrastructure: Schools, Hospitals, Housing, Sanitation, Industry, an Economy or attempt to do so has been even accomplished. They are just a burden on the West and a Tool of Radical Islam. The Pals never honored a Treaty, never accepted Israel’s Sovereignty or Right to Exist.
Having spent time in the Middle East, I know that. Gaza is a cesspool. Pals live in Camps, not a city as You would know it. Smuggling and building weapons to throw at Israel is the “Industry” there. Squalor beyond description, dire poverty, misery and hate describes Gaza keenly. Gaza is a festering sore. If you haven’t seen it, don’t go there on holiday. Kidnapping of Westerners is a quasi legit practice.
So don’t stumble over high minded ideals that the Pals view as an Infidel Weakness. Obama wants to bring them here but not in his neighborhood. They hate America as a supporter of Israel and do not have any qualms about suicide bombing or killing Americans or Israelis in numbers. Be as naive as you want to be about it but know that what I have described to you is fact, not idealistic fiction.
Israel has survived numerous Wars with Islam, Arabs and has learned that lesson the hard way for decades. Extend the olive branch and get rockets for days, aimed at cities, schools, hospitals, get suicide bombers in your peaceful market places and feel safe nowhere.
In the endgame there will be Israel standing alone if necessary. They have no local allies. They have conviction of belief, courage beyond anything America has felt since 1941 and a sense of patriotism that America is lacking right now in the wishful thinking and incredibly naive Pretender in Chief and His Band of Socialist admirers.
Israel must stand firm to survive as a Nation. I support Netanyahu and his views.
Two States? The Pals have no State or Statesmen. Period.
RE:braininahat
Don’t think you understand what I’m saying. The Palestinians are lost with this one. With them continuing to elect Hamas it pulls them out of the equation with a peace process. Hence leaving that to Israel and the U.S.
You say remove them from Gaza, easier said than done. That would be as simple as solving world hunger. They would face more threats and attacks from a number of countries in the middle east.
While I am not criticizing the U.S. and Israel totally for the situation, I am tired of innocent lives being shed with absolutely no resolution in sight. Whether it has been a republican or democrat in office we have done nothing to curtail or stop the violence. Everyone believes Bush and republicans support Israel more than Democrats, but what have been accomplished is the more important point? Nothing, steady violence more deaths.
This post throws a shot at Obama for his plan to help slow down the violence, yet for eight years nothing other than we love Israel!! has come from the right. Support with no answers, but plenty of criticism for Dems because they won’t bend over anytime Israel wants.
I am no supporter of Palestine, but removing them forcibly would be suicide for the state of Israel, which is why they won’t do it.
First it may be helpful to not blindly mix Palestinians with Hamas/Palestinians. I hesitate to point out the obvious, but evidently it must be done. “Removing Palestinians” from Gaza or West Bank certainly eliminates the need for a “Palestinian state”, eh?
Hamas is the larger problem. The govt battles lie between Fatah and Hamas, with the denizens in the middle. Israel worked out agreements with Fatah/Abbas in the West Bank, and supposedly with Gaza. Hamas seized power over Gaza in a coup (Fatah retains control over West Bank) and consistently refuses to recognize the existance of Israel – launching bombs with regularity despite cease fires, talks and agreements.
With all due respect, Flavor, you may be “tired” of innocent lives lost, but how you purport to feel is but a drop in the bucket compared to those who live with the bombs in their backyards… both Palestinians and Israelis. This is a centuries old cultural/religious war. That the Big Zero thinks he can waltz into the Oval Office and effect change because of his self-perceived (and media) rock star status is personification of “the audacity of hope”.
What it will take is a unified PA, which means Hamas either concedes… or is voted out the next election. Also, Flavor, the Palestinians are not “continuing” to elect Hamas. They have done so once in 2006, and that was based on their welfare social programs offering… not their desire for war with Israel. Their coup over Gaza was no “election”… it was force.
As long as jihad survives in the Muslim sects, Israel will be in a precarious position. At most the world can hope for a fragile truce. But Obama’s quest for a Middle East legacy may only accerbate the problem. I am not so convinced of his support for Israel over his own personal agenda. Bibi and the Israelis will only take so much of his quasi-hand shakes before they act in their own defense. Obama against Bibi? I’ll bet on the latter.
Just an added comment. Israel’s action of self defense is not necessarily to take out Iran’s nuclear capabilities. That does seem to be the first thoughts of all based on their past actions. But Syria and Iraq are a sheeet load closer, and the air routes and combat support needed for air strikes with high risk is well known.
You might want to read up on the CSIS’s report this past March by Abdullah Toukan, and Reuven Pedatzur’s article a few days ago in Haaretz a few days ago discussing the logistics of such a mission.
Israel’s “self-defense” may take other tacts… from covert to missile defense. Part of them has to bank on Iran’s leadership knowing that any launch in their direction evokes retaliation. And I doubt Iran’s ready to risk destruction of their cities when they can just continue to fund the bad boys of jihad to assail Israel both on the ground, and in the diplomatic world. There’s a lot of posturing, but I have to conclude that neither side is completely stupid on the reality… and risks.
Well, Obama said in his book that he would stand by the muslims and isn’t he doing just that? How can anyone with a brain in his/her head support the Palestinians? They are the scaff and raff of the Arab world. There were not that many people in Palestine 60 years ago. They have come from everywhere. And there are no innocent people in either Palestine or Gaza. They elected terrorists as their government and must face the consequences.
Israel has been very forbearing for decades with this trash and should have learned their lesson. These people can’t be dealt with. And every time Israel defends itself they cave to the media lies. Israel should force these animals from Gaza. Drive them into the sea l ike they want to do to the Israelis. The reason they have no infrastructure is because they destroyed it when Israel pulled out along with the greenhouses that provided food.
It is astounding to me that liberals support these people. Of course, this just shows how stupid they are. Time magazine is responsible for this turnabout. Years ago they printed in their magazine a sympathic view of the Palestinian situation and the liberls latched onto this canard mainly because it is against America’s interests.
Israel will do what is in their best interest while the UN and Obama vote “Present”.
Iran and their Client State, Syria will supply, sit back and the Pals will gnaw on Israel like wolves.
Been there and to Beirut many times and watched the fur fly.
Don’t get lost in the details, Please. Risks will be taken, exploited and Israel will use any means available to survive. Do not doubt that for a second.
Iran is led by fanatics and if Israel needs to take them down a notch or three, they will do just that and not even blink an eye. Nukes in the hands of fanatics is of concern for them. Obama is not knowledgeable or wise on that. The religion of Peace is crap. Jihad is real and the Happening Thing.
Now then, any Experts want to raise their hands? Reading opinions and viewing options is sheer speculation. Obama, an amateur at Foreign Policy but never will admit it met BiBi and was punked because Mr Netanyahu is not a fool and not a punk community organizer. Patriot vs Pretender…no match. Chicago is not Tel Aviv.
Now off to grill some trout and bake a few potatoes while Daughter steams some asparagus.
Dinner here is not formal, just necessary. If the IDF launches aircraft to whack Iran, it is none of America’s damn business. They know that Obama went to the Neville Chamberlain School of Diplomacy or the Saul Alinsky school of Socialist Dreams.
Obama is ignorant and a dangerous punk as Pretender in Chief on Any Policy.
Aqua: “Flavor, why do the United States or Israel have to have the answer. Why can’t the Palestinians have the answer?”
Excellent point. What effort are the Palis making other than firing rockets into Sderot or demanding to kill the evil jooos? Israel gave them the Gaza, they turned it into a craphole.
Kozanne: Excellent point. What effort are the Palis making other than firing rockets into Sderot or demanding to kill the evil jooos? Israel gave them the Gaza, they turned it into a craphole.
That exactly the point. The Palestinians don’t want a solution. Hamas wants conflict and killing, hence the U.S. and Israel must come up with a solution that will keep Israel safe in the long run.
The solution isn’t a Palestinian problem as much as it is an Iranian problem, The Irani leader “ahm a doin’ a jihad” is using Israel as a foil to attack Sunni stewardship of Mecca. By doing this it makes the Sunni leadership seem “soft” on Israel. If Iran stopped funding Hezbollah and Hamas there would be a comprehensive peace deal tomorrow.
I’ve never quite understood why Democrats in general are less supportive of Israel then Republicans. Especially when you consider that Jewish individuals are more likely to support (vote) for Democrats. It’s a head-scratcher to be sure. You would think this would create a wedge between the two.
ditto,
Good question. That has always been a mystery to me. For some reason American Jewish folks always contributed huge for Democrats, voted for Democrats and supported Democrats. I could never understand that.
Israelis always counted on a strong America to be at their side, welcomed American support and trusted America to defend their right to survive for decades in a pretty bad neighborhood. An American visiting Israel gets a warmer welcome than when that same American visits France, Belgium, Germany or the UK. Just speaking from my personal experience.
American Jewish folks do not find military service desirable. Israelis consider military service to be a Duty.
Good question…lets hope that our amateur President matures enough to deal with Israel fairly and American Jews get a sense of who they are and where they came from.
The IDF is tough and has the capability to whack Iran hard, not respective of American weak foreign policy but from their Right to Survive. The UN is a very expensive bad joke and a forum for tin hat dictators and third world folks with their hands out. Lip service…Hah!
Pals have never wanted peace. Isreal was giving the pals 90 % of what they wanted under Clinton, but Arafat pulled the rug out. Any chance of peace died that day.
I believe the Jewish state should take a hard line of no negotiations, no repor, no contact until they are recognized as a country in the Arab world and promised a peaceful existence. Otherwise they should act like the Pals don’t exist. It is shameful life is lost in Gaza and the West bank, but change has to come internally. Just like the alcoholic, he has to want to change, to really effect his outcome, the same with the pal people. Voting Hamas into office is not internal change, they still have fight in them.
I am also getting frustrated with the Jewish people in this country. Reagan, Bush Sr, Bush Jr adamently supported Isreal to the betterment of their political careers, and yet they (Jewish voters in the states) vote hand over fist for the Dems. I’m about to the point of telling them to pound sand. You get what you vote for. As if Obama’s history didn’t telegraph his feelings towards Arabs and Jews. Jerimiah Wright believes that Muslums are his brothers, that they are the other sheep Jesus aludes to…(which is not true) The Bible is pretty explecit. If you do not go through Jesus, you can not be saved, and if muslims are of the other fold, why in the heck do we need Jesus to be saved, and why in the heck would God put his son on the cross. Wright and Obama both believe in Universalism. Both believing that the Muslims are their brothers. They also believe the Jews are the problem, just look at the ties between Wright and Farrakan.
So my point is this; if they keep voting for Dems as a voting block, ignoring the sacrifices of the Republicans political careers, they can pound sand. I’m getting to the point of being over it.
I have always noticed that most of the muslim countries that seem to decry the Palastinian problem as being the fault of Israel have never offered to take into their country the displaced Palestinians. After all if they were so concerned about the plight of their brothers you would think they would embrace them and welcome them into their homes, but even Syria is not willing to let them come into their territory.