2 Mar

Why we need high capacity magazines

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Larry Correia:

We should ban magazines over X number of shots!

I’ve seen this one pop up a lot. It sounds good to the ear and really satisfies that we’ve got to do something need. It sounds simple. Bad guys shoot a lot of people in a mass shooting. So if he has magazines that hold fewer rounds, ergo then he’ll not be able to shoot as many people.

Wrong. And I’ll break it down, first why my side wants more rounds in our gun, second why tactically it doesn’t really stop the problem, and third, why stopping them is a logistical impossibility.

First off, why do gun owners want magazines that hold more rounds? Because sometimes you miss. Because usually—contrary to the movies—you have to hit an opponent multiple times in order to make them stop. Because sometimes you may have multiple assailants. We don’t have more rounds in the magazine so we can shoot more, we have more rounds in the magazine so we are forced to manipulate our gun less if we have to shoot more.

The last assault weapons ban capped capacities at ten rounds. You quickly realize ten rounds sucks when you take a wound ballistics class like I have and go over case after case after case after case of enraged, drug addled, prison hardened, perpetrators who soaked up five, seven, nine, even fifteen bullets and still walked under their own power to the ambulance. That isn’t uncommon at all. Legally, you can shoot them until they cease to be a threat, and keep in mind that what normally causes a person to stop is loss of blood pressure, so I used to tell my students that anybody worth
shooting once was worth shooting five or seven times. You shoot them until they leave you alone.

Also, you’re going to miss. It is going to happen. If you can shoot pretty little groups at the range, those groups are going to expand dramatically under the stress and adrenalin. The more you train, the better you will do, but you can still may miss, or the bad guy may end up hiding behind something which your bullets don’t penetrate. Nobody has ever survived a gunfight and then said afterwards, “Darn, I wish I hadn’t brought all that extra ammo.”

So having more rounds in the gun is a good thing for self-defense use.

Now tactically, let’s say a mass shooter is on a rampage in a school. Unless his brain has turned to mush and he’s a complete idiot, he’s not going to walk up right next to you while he reloads anyway. Unlike the CCW holder who gets attacked and has to defend himself in whatever crappy situation he finds himself in, the mass shooter is the aggressor. He’s picked the engagement range. They are cowards who are murdering running and hiding children, but don’t for a second make the mistake of thinking they are dumb. Many of these scumbags are actually very intelligent. They’re just broken and evil.

In the cases that I’m aware of where the shooter had guns that held fewer rounds they just positioned themselves back a bit while firing or they brought more guns, and simply switched guns and kept on shooting, and then reloaded before they moved to the next planned firing position. Unless you are a fumble fingered idiot, anybody who practices in front of a mirror a few dozen times can get to where they can insert a new magazine into a gun in a few seconds.

A good friend of mine (who happens to be a very reasonable democrat) was very hung up on this, sure that he would be able to take advantage of the time in which it took for the bad guy to reload his gun. That’s a bad assumption, and here’s yet another article that addresses that sort of misconception that I wrote several years ago which has sort of made the rounds on firearm’s forums. So that’s awesome if it happens, but good luck with that.

Finally, let’s look at the logistical ramifications of another magazine ban. The AWB banned the production of all magazines over ten rounds except those marked for military or law enforcement use, and it was a felony to possess those.

Over the ten years of the ban, we never ran out. Not even close. Magazines are cheap and basic. Most of them are pieces of sheet metal with some wire. That’s it. Magazines are considered disposable so most gun people accumulate a ton of them. All it did was make magazines more expensive, ticked off law abiding citizens, and didn’t so much as inconvenience a single criminal.

Meanwhile, bad guys didn’t run out either. And if they did, like I said, they are cheap and basic, so you just get or make more. If you can cook meth, you can make a functioning magazine. My old company designed a rifle magazine once, and I’m no engineer. I paid a CAD guy, spent $20,000 and churned out several thousand 20 round Saiga .308 mags. This could’ve been done out of my garage.

Ten years. No difference. Meanwhile, we had bad guys turning up all the time committing crimes, and guess what was marked on the mags found in their guns? MILITARY AND LAW ENFORCEMENT USE ONLY. Because once again, if you’re already breaking a bunch of laws, they can only hang you once. Criminals simply don’t care.

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About Curt

Curt served in the Marine Corps for four years and has been a law enforcement officer in Los Angeles for the last 24 years.

71 Responses to Why we need high capacity magazines

  1. GREG
    it is also known as a sport, for many serious people,
    they like to use their weapons on the range to test their sharpness,
    it’s a form of enjoying yourself in the same time,
    I even think that it is require to practice to really know your reaction under real attack,
    you need to be constantly aware and know to be fast and not miss the target.
    I have seen a play shooting in a farm, and the target was a can on a post and one would put the can on it and turn
    away further and the horse would make the can fall on the ground while his back is turn walking away,
    and the horse would be gone, it was so funny to watch
    the one come back a couple of time before he catch the horse doing it again and again.

    ReplyReply
  2. MW says: 52

    I’m pretty sure that no one who has ever been in a situation where their lives are at the mercy of a criminal has ever, or will ever say in that moment “Darn, I sure am glad I don’t have a gun.”

    ReplyReply
  3. MW
    I love that one,
    and I RECALL TO BE TO BLANK TO THINK OF WISHING FOR A GUN,
    THOSE HAPPENING START AND END SO FAST, BUT TO ME IT LOOKED LIKE AN ETERNITY,
    and the proof is , it’s still fresh in my mind,
    bye

    ReplyReply
  4. MW
    on another note, it’s so strange to know that CHRIS KYLE CAME BACK
    TO AMERICA AND JUST LET HIS GUARD DOWN, HE WAS SO HAPPY I GUESS TO BE HOME,
    WHERE ALL IS BEAUTIFUL HE HAD DREAMED ABOUT SO MANY TIMES,
    THAT GUY WITH A LONG BEARD, WAS HE SOLD, COULD IT HAVE BEEN A CONTRACT
    TO KILL,
    I am being carried away , maybe, but if he was so trouble , it was easy to plant an evil thought,
    his beard GIVE ME AN IMAGE OF MUSLIM, THERE IS SOME IN THE USA,
    THAT OTHER STORY OF A YOUNG BLACK, BAPTIST OF RELIGION, HAVE BEEN SUGGESTED TO JOIN THE MOSQUE, HE WAS TOLD TO KILL HIS DOG, THAN HE KILLED A WHITE BOY,
    HIS FATHER TOLD THE STORY, AND THAT’S WHY I CONNECT HERE,
    BYE

    ReplyReply
  5. mathman
    you are on the number 1 of this long thread,
    and you provide very good important informations
    I was asking for in a while,
    thank you for that

    ReplyReply
  6. Randy says: 56

    @John Hardesty:

    What an asinine non sequiter you posted with that question.

    Sir, you can count on Greg to make at least one of these type comments on every post. He just can not help that he has no critical thinking skills.

    ReplyReply
  7. another vet says: 57

    @Petercat:

    How many rounds per magazine did the Founding Fathers have to contend with? ”
    The same number as the civilians of that time period had available. As it should be today.

    The best response I’ve ever seen to this old argument. I’ll definitely have to use it myself the next time someone who either doesn’t know and/or care about the reason for the 2nd Amendment, or the rest of the Constitution for that matter, makes the same erroneous argument.

    ReplyReply
  8. Petercat says: 58

    @another vet: #57
    Thank you.
    Feel free to use it as many times as you want to.
    Sort of like an Obamavoter, but legit.
    (But I meant to say “soldiers”, not “civilians”!)

    ReplyReply
  9. MW
    HI, what do you think of what came after this POST.
    that is ” THE SEQUESTRATION,
    what’s next to torture the good people of this AMERICA
    bye

    ReplyReply
  10. another vet says: 60

    @Petercat: Actually you were quite right when you said civilians. When people were called to arms, they had the same types of firearms as the FF.

    ReplyReply
  11. I’M AWAY FROM THE POST
    BUT WHAT ABOUT A CRANE WITH A BIG HOOK TO DIG IN THE HOLE
    WHERE THE BEDROOM AND A MAN SINK, THE CRANE CAN BE TO A SECURE DISTANCE,
    BUT THAT MAN COULD BE STILL BREATHING, IF WE DON’T TRY, WE WILL ALWAYS THINK
    OF WHAT IF I, WHAT IF WE, WHAT IF THEY ,
    THE TECHNOLOGY IS SO ADVANCE, WE SHOULD THINK MORE,
    THERE MIGHT BE A WAY,
    SOME TOOL YOU USE IN MINING,
    SOME DIGGING PARALLEL TO THE HOLE A TUNNEL YOU SECURE WITH INSERTING A ROUND HUGE METAL PIPE WHICH HAS THE SIZE TO HOLD A MEN AND MAYBE TWO IF THEY CRAWL,
    I CANNOT BELIEVE THERE IS NOTHING TO DO, YOU WILL NEED
    BETTER EXCUSE, WE CANNOT GIVE UP LIKE THIS.
    HOW ABOUT AN UNDERSEA CAMERA SUPENDED,
    HOW ABOUT A PRO IN CAVERN SEARCHING EQUIPMENT,
    HOW ABOUT A ROBOT SUSPENDED BY A CABLE THE HELYCOPTER USE IN SEARCH,
    IF YOU TRY , YOU WILL LEARN SOMETHING,
    IF YOU DON’T TRY YOU REMAIN IGNORANT ON THAT ISSUE,
    HOW ABOUT SOME KIND OF SENSOR,
    WHAT ABOUT A MACINE THEY USE TO MONITOR THE HEARTBEAT
    ON A VERY SICK PERSON,
    HOW ABOUT A PROBE MONITOR BY REMOTE

    ReplyReply
  12. Richard Aubrey says: 62

    Forty-plus years ago, I could swap out a mag on an M16 in less than five seconds. Lanza had a quarter of an hour. Even with ten-round mags, he had time to fire off more than he could carry.
    No point to it.

    ReplyReply
  13. UpChuck.Liberals says: 63

    Let me toss in a little training experience I had on 2/23/13. Our ‘final’ exam, after 8 hours of shooting in the sun, was to walk and fire 4 rounds into a 10″ target starting from 15 yds, ending @ 5 yds. Do a tactical reload, slide sideways 6′ fire 4 rounds rapidly into a 8″ target, then hit a 14″ steel plate at 100 yds. All of this is with a hand gun. All of this was timed. I did this in 22 seconds and was one of 3, out of 19, to hit the gong. I did mess up on the walking part, I missed the center mass target but did put the 4 rounds into the right shoulder of the target, the rapid fire was a 6″ group. The gong was dead center. I’m not tooting my own horn here but even an old cripple like myself can become moderately effective and changing mags and hitting their target. I’m going to have to see how long it takes my 9 year old grand sony to swap out mags on my Xd. Oh yeah on the cripple part, I was definitely using my cane and Aleve on Sunday. Don’t try to remove your foot kids, you’ll pay for it later.

    ReplyReply
  14. Petercat says: 64

    @another vet: #60
    You are correct.

    ReplyReply
  15. UpCchuck.Liberal
    nobody will mess with you,
    you are an ACE ON GUN SHOOTING,
    THAT’S FOR SURE,
    I don’t mind you bragging not at all
    I’m glad you came to tell,
    let’s see how other do if they want to tell,
    bye

    ReplyReply
  16. Smorgasbord says: 66

    I live in a mountainous part of Idaho, and ride my ATV on the ATV trails in those mountains. Idaho has bears. Idaho has also reintroduced the wolf. There have been documented cases of up to 20 some wolves in one pack. I bought a 45 pistol just to carry with me on my ATV rides or on Search And Rescue. It is the only time I carry it. I don’t want to be restricted to 10 shots if I confront a bear or wolf pack. I want as many rounds as I can get.

    ReplyReply
  17. UpChuck.Liberals says: 67

    @ilovebeeswarzone: Heh, not an ACE, much more like a Joker.

    ReplyReply
  18. UpChuck.Liberals
    don’t put me down after what you succeed,
    I’M DOWN TO A DUCE COMPARE TO YOU,
    BYE

    ReplyReply
  19. Smorgasbord
    yes for sure, and make sure the bullets are not like that woman
    kept shooting and the guy was still standing at the end of her 6 bullets, he was still moving,
    that told me there are different quality of bullets, and one must not be cheap in buying the best,
    his life is in the balance, and for bear and wolves, and I think you have to know the law of the land also,
    if you can get away, just roll out don’t get out of your car if you are in a wilderness,
    bye

    ReplyReply
  20. Smorgasbord says: 70

    @ilovebeeswarzone: #69

    …you have to know the law of the land…

    In Idaho we can have any ammo, and any gun except the fully automatic. Simple.

    ReplyReply
  21. Smorgasbord
    good, whatch the snow storm too,
    bye

    ReplyReply

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