#NARRATIVEFAIL: CNN: Witnesses Tell FBI That Zimmerman Is No Racist. “Ware, a black homeless man, was beaten by a Sanford police lieutenant’s son. Zimmerman was critical of police handling of the case and reportedly worked on Ware’s behalf.” Of course, if you read the right blogs, you knew this stuff months ago, but at least they’re starting to catch up.
via Instapundit
O’Malley… when you decide to drop back to gravity and Planet Earth… here’s a few things for you to ponder.
1: Was Zimmerman a hands free cell phone user? Hint… before you answer, there is no evidence of any Zimmerman headset/headphone/bluetooth. On the flip side, Martin’s hands free capabilities were documented.
2: Why would Martin “observe” a key change attached mini flashlight in Zimmerman’s hand – that wasn’t working, according to Zimmerman? Fact is, Zimmerman says that the only reason he observed Martin rounding the corner is because his headlights from his abandoned car (after he left to chase Martin) stay on for a while, and that’s how he saw that?
3: Since Martin was on the phone with Dee for four minutes… from 7:12P approx until the disconnect at the meeting approx 7:16P… when was he supposed to be aware of a call from Zimmerman to the police? And BTW, where the are dispatch records for that? Something overlooked in discovery, perhaps?
Send your cash to Zimmerman and O’Mara, O’Malley. That’s their quest for the evening. Reward them, since you are a devotee.
@MataHarley:
My Lady:
Mr. Zimmerman was on his cell phone with the police when Martin chose to confront the watchmen twice, when Zimmerman was in his vehicle. Thereafter when Martin chose to confront the watchman the third time, away from the vehicle, Zimmerman had already placed his cellphone in his jacket pocket. Martin’s hands free capabilities were discovered and documented at the scene of the shooting. Martin was evidentuary ready for action with both fists.
.
My Lady:
Why inquire of me? The good lady will not hear what I speak however much I plea. No, pray that Patrolman Serino grace you with the answer you seek.
@ilovebeeswarzone:
I’d guess from the police crime scene reconstruction work completed prior to a police interview with Zimmerman. It would seem absurdly unlikely that Zimmerman would have fabricated such tale for national TV. It is as unlikely that his vigilante and present defense counsel would have allowed him to do so.
Given these facts and circumstances it seems wildly unlikely that Martin would have punch Zimmerman because he would have thought Zimmerman was reaching for a gun. It seems far more likely that Martin was reacting to at that moment, and perhaps in retaliation, to Zimmerman reaching out to the police for help.
.
This information from the police may help us understand why Martin first menaced Zimmerman and then
fled…. errr…. chose to retreat after he observed Zimmerman was sitting in his vehicle visibly speaking on his cellphone.I’m sorry… was there an answer to that question in there anywhere? The point being if Zimmerman was hands free, Martin would not necessarily have noticed if Zim was on the phone at all, passing his car by since there is no phone to the ear. Then, of course how would he know *who* Zim is talking to even if he had a phone to his ear?
Secondly, when Zim is chasing him… which we now know he is by his own admittance to his co-workers and air marshal friend… while on the phone, can Martin (being as he is retreating in front of him) see if Zim was holding a phone to his ear? And again, how is he supposed to know who he is talking to?
You’ve made a good faith belief in Zimmerman saying that police told him Martin knew he was on the phone to the police. Hey, if Zimmerman wants to believe that, no problem. Like I said… good cop/bad cop. They also tried to tell him that Martin was recording it all.
But please.. pray do tell us how that happened? The first bridge to hurdle is whether Martin could tell if Zimmerman was on the phone at all, let along WHO he was on the phone with. Amuse me.. I’m dying to hear this wives tale.
Oh.. wait.
In other words, you haven’t got a clue and can’t even make a bonafiede case for it. But if ol’ George said it’, it’s gotta be gospel, right?
And what’s this continued BS.. shuck and jive… about Martin “confronting the watchman the third time”? I do believe I’ve asked you this before, but do… again.. tell us how this happened, and be sure to back it up with the dispatchers call time logs and a touch of reality. Physics simply can’t be ignored in the real world. And please, feel free to add whichever Zimmerman version of that “circling” or threatening confrontation you choose, as well as when and how it was supposed to have occurred in the context of the dispatcher call.
Again you prove you haven’t listened to all the audio, viewed the videos, or read the evidence, O’malley. Otherwise you wouldn’t have to “guess” about what Zimmerman was saying.
I’m quite sure you didn’t mean to call O’Mara a “vigilante”, and assume you meant “vigilant”, yes? But you miss the point. The official transcripts, statements and videos are in, and the gate is closed. This Hannity bit is a photo op/fundraiser. Be sure to send in your check for your hero to GZ Legal Defense. I know they’ll appreciate this dog and pony show paying off.
O’Mara doesn’t have to control or worry about Zim because whatever damage he has caused is already water under the bridge. Additionally, and without having to subject myself to too much Hannity exposure, I’ll accept your version that Zimmerman told Hannity that the investigators (i.e. post that evening) told him that Martin was aware he was on the phone with the dispatcher.
This, of course, isn’t technically a lie since he’s just repeating.. in theory… what an investigator supposedly told him. None of which is on ANY of the released police interview with Zim. But let’s not worry about factual details when you’re in a “guessing” mode, shall we? Zim can always say that was an off the record, non recorded conversation.
But of course, we all know it’s factually impossible. But that doesn’t stop you from running a snow job on Bees about how Martin should know he was reaching for his cell .. and not necessarily a gun… to, again, call the dispatcher for help.
MATA
ZIMMERMAN WAS REACHING IN HIS POCKET,
and his gun was in his back belt, so he was reaching for his cell phone,
and if MARTIN KNEW HE HAD TALK ON HIS CELLPHONE AS WE FOUND,
HE KNEW HIS CELL PHONE WAS IN HIS POCKET BECAUSE HE HAD WATCH HIM,
BEFORE SO HE ATTACK HIM TO PREVENT HIM FROM CALLING THE POLICE AGAIN,
remember that we know he muzzle him when ZIMMERMAN YELL FOR HELP shouting to shut up, covering his mouth and broken nose preventing him from breeding,
MATA HE WAS KILLING HIM, NO DOUBT
@MataHarley:
Just endured the Hannity interview that I DVR’d last night. Yeah, I know…
Z has yet more variations in his tale within this interview. More falsehoods. More stuff that strains credulity and requires a complete and willful suspension of disbelief.
His flippant attitude and complete lack of regret and remorse isn’t going to benefit him at all.
Mike O’Malley
yes that’s the point, he said it on tv, no lie there with his lawyer beside,
and the other point is that the fact that MARTIN HAD WATCHED HIM PUT HIS PHONE IN HIS POCKET
AFTER TALKING TO THE POLICE, TELL US HE KNEW THE PHONE WAS THERE,
WHERE ZIMMERMAN WAS REACHING FOR, AND THE FACT THAT HE PREVENTED HIM FROM YELLING AT ONE POINT, TELL US THAT HE HAD THE INTENT TO KILL,AND HE DID SAY IT WHILE BEATING HIM.
CONTRARY TO ZIMMERMAN WHO SHOT HIM WITHOUT NO INTENT BEFORE, OR EVEN AS HE SHOT HIM,
OUT OF PANIC HE WAS GOING TO FAINT WHILE THE OTHER WAS AFTER HIS GUN,
AYE AND MATA
I CANNOT BELIEVE that at this point in time, you both still maintain his guilt
and absence of remorse which he showed with HANNITY TALKING TO THE OTHER FAMILY, WHICH HE HAD SHOWN IT AT THE COURT ALSO. YOU BOTH MY FRIENDS SURPRISE ME SO MUCH AT THIS TIME
THAT YOU DID MAINTAIN THE BELIEF OF HIM HAVING THE INTENT TO KILL,
WHEN IT’S OBVIOUS THAT IS THE OTHER WHO HAD THAT WILL TO KILL HIM.
your stand would not bother me to much if it was not for that HUMAN BEING STRUGGLING
TO PROVE THAT HE SHOOT TO SAVE HIS LIFE WITHOUT THE INTENT TO KILL.AS OPPOSE TO THE OTHER WHO HAD THAT KILLER INTENT,
ZIMMERMAN’S LIFE IS BROKEN ALTERED FOREVER AS NOW,
AND HE DOESN’T KNOW IF HE WILL GET OUT TO RECOVER HIS FREEDOM, PLUS THE BLACKS THREATS
WHICH WILL FORCE HIM TO LOOK IN HIS BACK AND SHOOT AGAIN IF THEY TRY,
FOR HAVING SURVIVE AND END UP IN HELL SHOULD ENOUGH TO US WANTING TO HELP HIM FIND HIS FREEDOM.
THOSE WHO COULD HAVE HELP IN THAT COMMUNITY BY THROWING A BUCKET OF WATER ON THEM
ARE THE GUILTY ONES WHO LET DOWN A PERSON THERE TO PREVENT CRIMES,
THEY WANTED TO TAKE BUT WHEN THE TIME COME WHEN THE CALL FOR SUPPORT
COME, THEY HIDE INSIDE, I have a name in my mind for people like that.
is that what OBAMA AGENDA PRODUCE IN ACHIEVING TO SEPARATE THE PEOPLE SO THEY COULD NOT CARE LESS FOR EACH OTHER ,HE ACHIEVED TO BRING FEAR TO THE PEOPLE,
BY LEAVING THE BORDERS OPEN TO ILLEGAL CRIMINALS,
AND NO ONE TRUST HIS NEIGHBOR ANYMORE,and
the people are judging the other by their colors,
which was not done before OBAMA
ANYMORE,
Mata posted this… a quote from another Article….
“That also includes Serino, who believes he’s guilty of murder two. Discounting O’Malley’s snarky and juvenile paraphrasing above, what Serino intends to prove as a criminal act and depraved mind to a jury is that:
1: he aggressively profiled Martin (who wasn’t doing anything illegal),
2: followed him in the car,
3: exited his car to pursue when Martin attempted to “retreat”,
4: spent an additional 2 minutes approx after hanging up with dispatcher hunting,
5: and – when they came face to face… according to Zimmerman’s own story – he responded to Martin’s question (“why are you following me” or “you have a problem”) with a “no”, then a wide sweeping movement “reaching” and fumbling around his pockets.
1> How does one “AGGRESSIVELY ” profile?? Compared to “just profiling”?? LOL!! A PROFILE is a PROFILE, Cops use these DAILY, to catch crooks! PLEASE….. Pure Lawyer dramatics here….
2> SO?? what DO you do, if you see someone suspicious, when patrolling the neighborhood?? you FOLLOW!
3> RETREAT??? or RUN OFF because he got “spotted” ?? Who’s to say for sure?? More LAWYER DRAMATICS.. they use theatrics to sway juries for a living….
4>Now THIS is the one, I feel VINDICATES Zimmerman as THE AGGRESSOR!! Zimmerman, walked PAST the pathway Martin had gone down, failing to see him…and went to the REAR exit from the Community, where Zimmerman thought he went to “escape”…where Zimmerman was when ended his call, then returned, by backtracking towards his car… and AFTER TWO MINUTES elapsed time… Martin was mere FEET, from where Zimmerman had “missed him” when Martin turned down the right hand walk towards his “destination…. after TWO MINUTES…. Martin, should have been LONG GONE, at the home he was “supposed to be” headed for. But, he wasn’t, he had WAITED those “two minutes” ….and when Zimmerman came BACK…. he was in Zimmerman’s face. Hence, Martin STAYED there, to Confront Zimmerman…. and we know the rest ..
5> direct result of MARTIN’S actions in #4…. End of Story.
>>>I’m not saying Zimmerman is a Saint or anything… but the OUTCOME is all on Martin. Had he just MOVED along, to where he was supposed to be going, he would have never come face to face with Zimmerman… and the FACTS, and TIMELINE, bear this out. Nuff Said.
And Mata…. 99% of the time, I’m in Agreement with your postings… usually very accurate and inciteful… but, for whatever reason… on THIS one.. you seem a bit “scalp happy”…. IMHO…. or so it appears..
Lastly… any COP or detective will tell you, it’s the ones who repeat VERBATIM the EXACT same story over and over, you have to worry about… because it’s FAKE, and Rehearsed and memorized… REAL witnesses all vary in details, and remember, and FORGET details…
But, to be honest, this Witch hunt has Gotten WAY out of hand, we have a JUDGE, making PUBLIC COMMENTS that NO Judge should ever do… and almost impossible task, to find an “impartial jury”, now that TOO MUCH info has been let out PRIOR to the trial…. This has become a CIRCUS, not “Justice”… what a MESS!
Hey Hankster Hope you and family well! Think you meant Mata INSIGHTFUl. Agree.
As a neighborhood watch, carrying a lethal weapon, G.Z. accepted a clear responsibility.
The events as they unfolded that night are being argued by those not yet privy to all the facts.
Let’s get to court and have it over with ASAP
I was wondering how long it would take.
And it actually took a little bit less time than I expected.
In cases like this there’s reality, and then there’s what the parties would like observers to believe is reality.
The physical evidence, however, is unchangeable, unvarying, and indisputable.
In this particular case, the physical evidence, the audio tapes, and the basic realities of time and motion belie the multiple and varying stories that Z has been weaving.
And once Z gets caught lying about the basics then everything else he says is suspect and subject to scrutiny.
When his story doesn’t fit the physical evidence then one has to wonder why.
When his story is constantly evolving and changing and morphing then one has to wonder why.
Truth is constant. It doesn’t change or vary.
Z has yet to tell a version of the story which fits the unchanging, unyielding, and unbiased items of physical evidence.
Why is that? Doesn’t it make you wonder?
@ Richard ….. OOOOPS!! My bad, thanks for the catch!! That’s what I MEANT to type! LOL!!
I wish they had put a LID on all of it, until AFTER Court….. this guy will have a TOUGH TIME, getting an “impartial hearing” NOW….
as to US??? HOT, (102 today) HUMID, and a DROUGHT…. corn and Hay both failing… Look for a RISE in Food prices late Summer early fall.. lasting into next year…. Swell!! LOL!! Other than all of THAT…. so How’s the guitar lessons coming??
Hankster Sorry you’re suffering in the severe drought.We’re just fruits and nuts out here in So. Cal.lol
Guitar lessons slow but will pick up. We’re still trying to adopt but incredible and ridiculous red tape.
Stay strong Semper Fi
@Hankster58:
Of course Mr. Zimmerman would not seem to be defensively profiling an oddly behaving stranger? One could never defensively profile a possible threat? Right?
Zimmerman did however make an aggressive follow-up call to a police dispatcher? Gheez! Why dat crakkker callin’ da man?
A young football player and perhaps a street fighter, Martin if he wasn’t stoned, could have easily reached the Green residence and safety. However he chose to wait, in the dark, hidden. Would Martin have observed Zimmerman ending his call to the police? Likely. Would Martin have observed Zimmerman putting the cell phone in his pocket? Likely. Soon Zimmerman was isolated, no longer in contact with the police. There was no sign of the arrival of a police cruiser. Was there an apparent opportunity to make fast work of a smaller man? It would seem so. All Martin had to do was to lay Zimmerman out before Zimmerman could place another call to the police.
@MataHarley:
If so, if there were no element of sexual abuse present, you have undermined you argument. In all likelihood, a 7 or perhaps 8 year old child will not behave the way Christina Meza has alleged Young George Zimmerman did unless that child himself (in this case young George) had been previously sexualized (by sex abuse) as a 7year old minor and thereby lost a proper natural sense of personal boundaries as a 7year old minor.
Having undermined your own objection to what I argued, you are now left with only two reasonable possibilities: 1) that Christina Meza, was the original sex abuse victim who then enlisted young 7 or 8 year old George Zimmerman in sexual play acting. We should expect that Christina Meza, without the aid of much therapy, would have difficulty understanding her role in the cycle of abuse. In any case, if this second scenario is correct Christina Meza might well be coming forward now as she begins to deal a history of sexual abuse as a minor. George Zimmerman, the 8 to 16 year old, might be the emotionally safest target of accusation for her at this time rather than confronting the true initial predator who might have been a parent, an uncle or an older teenage brother in her family or an adult trusted by her parents. 2) There is a real possibility that Christina Meza is lying. At this time that odds for this sad prospect seem to be 50-50% or so. We need keep in mind that half of all rape accusations turn out to be unfounded and false.
Now remember, I gave Christina Meza the benefit of the doubt and assumed that she is a damaged victim of some sort of abuse and that she was trying to tell her story the best she can at this time.
@Hankster58, sorry to be late in getting back with you. Been busy.
Hankster, the usage of the word “aggressive” seems to be hanging a few up here. That would be “aggressive” or “aggression”, as in the medical definition also associated with aggressive type behavior.
Self-assertion is, of course, a self-confident and overbearing assertion of one’s views or opinions.
The reason I specifically used “aggressive profiling” is because was a self-assertion of untrained skills demonstrated by Zimmerman. As Serino pointed out, the attire Martin was wearing was not the normal attire of the gang (termed the “Goons” in that area). All Zimmerman has been able to answer about why Martin looked suspicious was that he was standing there in the rain, not in a hurry to get out of the rain, and didn’t look like some special forces type who’d train in adverse weather.
First of all, that “not in a hurry” bit is rather ironic. Even Zimmerman said he had to wait for cars to go by when he first spotted Martin. Then, of course, he was giving him the evil eye when he was passing him by as well. Think Martin might have been waiting for the neighborhood traffic? And why should he be in a hurry? Florida’s rains vary from minute to minute… torrential downpours to nothing in seconds at times. Lastly, since when it is criminal behavior not to run to get out of the rain, when in Florida it’s quite a common event? And since he had already walked home from the 7-11 in on/off rain, occasionally taking cover during the harder rains, it’s not likely he’d be getting much wetter than he already was at that moment. You’ll notice some witnesses said it was raining, others said it was light or stopped. That’s Florida… don’t like the weather? Wait a minute or so.
Zimmerman admitted he had no training, and Serino noted that his profiling skills left a lot to be desired. Basically, all he had to go on was that Martin was a black teen, like some previous perps. … the rest was pure BS. So if you don’t like the word “aggressive” as the adverb for profiling, “erronous” will work just as well. It’s the same, minus the arrogance of perceived skills for police profiling that he did not possess.
You call the PD, and stay in your car. You do not follow on foot. Especially when the person isn’t doing anything illegal. It seems that Martin’s greatest crime is not being known to Zimmerman. But then, after reading the evidence dump, it seems that there are many in the neighborhood that do not know Zimmerman. That’s not unusual.
I don’t suppose you listened to the Serino interview where he asks George to describe that run, did you? He gave him lots of options… jogging, flat out run, walking fast. After a lot of hemming and hawing, Zimmerman couldn’t describe the pace of the run when he told the dispatcher, “he’s running”.. and got out of his car six seconds later to follow. If you team that with Dee’s observation that he said he wasn’t going to run, but walk fast… that may be the reason why. He wasn’t “running”.
He was, however, very aware of a guy following him around the neighborhood in his car. Would that make you nervous? Especially since you walked right past his car, and he didn’t roll down the window and ID himself as the neighborhood watch.
BTW… wasn’t everyone making a big deal about him not being “on patrol” that night? That was, of course, to protect him for breaking two major cardinal rules of neighborhood watch.. you do not follow and confront suspicious characters, and you most certainly do not patrol while armed.
First, I find it ironic that there is obviously an amount of times someone is required to retreat when they are being followed around by a stranger, despite doing nothing wrong. But hey… I’ll play. Because perhaps some of you haven’t put together the phyics and timeline together. Serino did. And I’ll explain why.
Let’s use Zimmerman’s own words and various statements, and have a gander at some basic physical possibilities, shall we?
Zimmerman said that Martin began “running” at the Twin Trees intersection to the E-W walk thru path. It’s 471′ approx (Google Earth path measure) from the intersection of Twin Trees and that E-W path, round the corner to Greene’s house. Zimmerman was parked at the Twin Trees final location when this happened.
As I mentioned above, Zimmerman couldn’t, or wouldn’t, describe the “run” in the interview with Serino. Dee, who’s testimony can really only be limited to whether he was aware of Zimmerman, and his state of mind, had said he told her he wasn’t going to run. (she sure can’t say where he was exactly in the neighborhood, and we also don’t know what Martin’s words were to her).
So let’s compromise and say Martin did a power walker pace of say 12 feet per second. That’s about 39 seconds to cover the total distance to Greene’s house.
Zimmerman was exiting the car to pursue him six seconds after he took off, and then following at what sounds like a fast walk (via years of cutting foley cloth movement for films/TV) another four seconds after that.
Assuming they were moving at similar fast walk speeds, that puts Zimmerman about 110′ behind Martin… less than a quarter of the full distance to Greene’s house.
We don’t know Martin’s path, but what we do know is that there is no way he could have made it to Green’s house, sight unseen by Zimmerman. I don’t know about you, but I’m not going to lead some threatening stranger to my home… most especially if there are no adults there, and only another younger child. So my personal inclination would be to get out of sight, duck into the shadows (or bushes) around the corner, and see if this person continued to follow me.
So let’s go back to Zimmerman’s story… he says that Martin jumped out of the bushes to assault him. If one is inclined to believe any of GZ’s story, why not that part? Martin would have rounded the corner to get out of GZ’s line of vision, and decided to take cover behind the bushes he supposedly jumped out of.
If he’s there, hiding, he may or may not see GZ stop at the tee and take another two minutes to finish his dispatcher call right there, not far from where he’s hiding. He can’t come out without risking being further chased by this guy. Then GZ walks east another 100′ to the east leg of RVC.
Is it not then possible that Martin, who’s been hiding in the bushes and waiting (probably for what seem an eternity but was at least 2 minutes), thought the coast was clear only to find out that GZ had turned around and now they were in sight of each other? This would lead to the initial words being exchanged.
So why do you assume that:
1: Martin is required to continue retreating when he’d be in plain sight of Zimmerman if he did, or
2: Why Martin is required to retreat from someone following him at all? Or does he not also have self defense rights?
This is the physical reality…. per Zimmerman’s own various stories. The distance between the two wasn’t so great that Martin could have gotten home without GZ seeing where he went while pursuing him. And this is exactly what Serino pointed out to GZ in one of his interviews… I believe, if memory serves correct, it’s the one where he is comparing the dispatcher call to his story.
@Mike O’Malley, just when I think you can’t go any lower as a human being…. there ya go. Your personal assaults and imaginary backgrounds about a young girl, designed to demean her merely because she is relating an experience that doesn’t fit your heroic image of Zimmerman, is nothing short of disgusting. I have no time or patience for men like you.
@Hankster58:
Perhaps Mr. Hankster this polemical beauty may be perhaps reformulated colloquially to reveal its substance as follows:
Who you lookin’ at cracker?
and
Damn! F***! ! Why dat crakkker callin’ da man?
In the context of a citizen’s life in the Republic, “profiling” is no more than a political crime and violation of racialist etiquette.
@MataHarley:
Now now! Remember, I gave Christina Meza the benefit of the doubt and assumed that she is a damaged victim of some sort of abuse and that she was trying to tell her story the best she can at this time. That is far far more credit and fairness then you have been willing to give to George Zimmerman, Me Lady
@Mike O’Malley:
That ugly racist streak of yours is never far below the surface is it Mr. O’Malley?
AYE
on 113
it doesn’t change the real fact at the end, that ZIMMERMAN was attack to the point of loosing his life
IF
he would not have had a way to stop it,
it happen to be his gun saving his life, we have that proof and nothing else count, but only distract from the end fact and proof,
AND THAT IF” WOULD HAVE SAVE LIVES IN COLORADO, IF one would have had his gun not allowed there, as a citizen A MILITARY which we know where there, are sharp shooters, must now be so troubled by that restriction on lawful citizen
and MILITARY back from hell, be subject to be unarmed in a stage of war,
why else did the FRAMERS MADE THAT CARRYING A LAW? THERE IS THE ANSWER IN EVERYBODY’S FACE
@ilovebeeswarzone:
Why can’t George Zimmerman tell the truth Bees?
Why does he tell the tale over and over and over again with details changing each time?
Yet, not a single one of the tales fits the physical evidence?
Why is that? Doesn’t it make you wonder?
AYE
I would answer to that question if he was ask that his brain suffer contusions
being the the causes of that change of answers, and he doesn’t know it himself how deep, so that is why, he cannot answer this as I am doing,
because when you are beaten that hard so to have the brain blood come out, that is very hard and deep,
and there are no way to deny he had aftermath consequences, blur-ying his recollection of
describing the event did in very many repetitions, he is not the same person in his core as before, he still is wounded physicaly and emotionaly and in brain functions which might or might not heal, GOD KNOW ONLY when it will. he is still in shock and we see it by his rigidity in answering.
that is why I think of his innocent also, no matter those problems you have notice.
by
@ilovebeeswarzone, any attempt to equate Zimmerman killing Martin with the Colorado theater massacre is despicable, and an insult. Those movie goers were under assault from a demented young man, committing a criminal act. Martin was not Holmes, and was not doing anything wrong when he was hunted, and killed.
Additionally, Martin – in Zimmerman’s eyes, an already convicted “f*#kin’ punk” who always “gets away” … but not this time while he was on “watch” – had every right to feel threatened by Zimmerman. I pointed this out to you in Comment #87.
I see you don’t want to address this same situation, were you in Martin’s shoes. But I’ll keep in mind that your idea of self defense is that some strange man can indeed hunt you for over five minutes, both in a car and on foot, and if you decide to defend yourself – and perhaps get the upper hand on him – he’s well within his rights to kill you because he feels his own life is in danger.
Let me get this straight. Your position is she’s either an outright liar about something that never happened, or she lying because it was actually her who was the sexual aggressor (not your hero) because of some made up family background you concoct?
And you want kudos for this crap?
Hold your breath…. you’re a sick man. Your assault on what was a young girl’s experiences recounted prove you to be a despicable coward, and unworthy of any respect from me.
To anyone that thinks I’m not giving any “fairness” or “credibility” to Zimmerman… do allow me to point out that we have learned quite a bit about Zimmerman.
A psychological background for Zimmerman’s treatment of women is documented via the FBI interviews, and Zimmerman’s own words on his MySpace page. He has no problem calling a woman a ‘ho, was domineering and controlling over his ex-fiance – even to the details of how she should dress. He stalked her after she left him, and struck her. The man shut off the power to his own mother and put a lock on her electrical panel, for heavens sake.
This is a man with some real problems with those in his close circle of relationships. And depending how long he’s been on Ritalin plus… aka Adderall… this may be really taking a toll on his personality and behavior.
While Zimmerman is mild mannered and polite with acquaintances, he is a different personality in his daily interactions with those in his inner circle. He has an authority and dominance problem… most especially with women. INRE this young cousin, I’ve said it before… sexual abuse is not about sex, it’s about power and authority.
Now if any of you would like to blame this on his domineering mother who supposedly hit him as a child, that’s your choice. Just remember where you learned that trick – the hallmark liberal excuse is to always blame the parents for the child’s, or young man’s, actions. Ergo, Zimmerman has no responsibility for his own actions… either as a child, or now.
Me? This is a no brainer. Zimmerman’s multiple accounts with easily disproved events shown by the dispatcher’s call proves that the man lies as easily as the wind blows. So how do we even know that what Zimmerman told his air marshal friend about his estranged mother, and his supposed abused beaten child past, is even true?
Just a few of the documented lies?
1: “circling” when that was physically impossible in the time elapsed,
2: getting out to look for an address when there were addresses in plain sight on the opposite side of the street,
3: telling police he agreed to meet the PD at his car,
4: telling police he was following the dispatcher’s instructions when following and hunting Martin
5: switching stories about where he finished his dispatcher’s call,
6: that he wasn’t “following” Martin, he was just “going in the same direction”,
7: that the fight for his life occurred more than 40-45′ from where the body was found,
8: that he was “reaching” for a cell phone that he couldn’t remember where he put it just two minutes earlier, but he “forgot” he was wearing a gun – which he tells Hannity he wears all the time – conveniently located right where he was reaching,
9: that he can’t remember the name of one of three streets in a neighborhood he patrols 2-3 times weekly because he has ADHD, but he can remember every detail about the prior teen incident that he starts his story off with as justification for his “suspicions” about Martin
10: that he’s screaming for help for the last 38 seconds before the shot, all at the same time he’s supposedly getting his head bashed repeatedly against concrete and being smothered by Martin’s hands over his nose and his mouth. Funny about how that laceration wasn’t deep enough to support this extended head bashing. Likely he hit his head when he fell, and that’s the end of it. Repeated bashing? Not likely without a concussion, brain injuries, and a lot more and deeper lacerations.
I give Zimmerman the exact credibility he is due based on his own documented words and actions… which is none.
@ilovebeeswarzone:
Oh please. Don’t be so overly dramatic about Z’s injuries. That’s insulting to those of us who know better.
Z had two little cuts to the back of his head. One was 1/4 of an inch long. The other was less than one inch long. Neither of those cuts required stitches. And his supposedly broken nose didn’t require any sort of surgery or medical attention. In fact, overall, Z’s injuries didn’t require any sort of medical attention beyond basic first aid at the scene. You make it sound as if he suffered brain damage.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
In the minutes following the shooting Z was up and about, walking around, carrying on conversations, functioning completely normally.
He didn’t even seek medical attention on the night of the shooting. If his injuries were so severe as to cause all of the issues you want to believe they caused, then why didn’t he go to the hospital?
The truth is that the reason Z can’t be honest has zip, zero, nada, nothing to do with his injuries.
No, the reason he can’t be honest is that the truth about the events of that night don’t fit with what he needs observers to believe about him and those events.
Those of us who are willing and able to dispassionately examine the evidence can see his deception for what it is…deception.
And when Z is undeniably caught in deception, one has to wonder: Why he’s choosing to be deceptive? and what else is he being deceptive about?
From Zimmerman’s EMT on site report:
Extended head-meets-concrete doesn’t result in this minimal of a surface laceration, nor a normal breaking and pulse following the incident. Serino pointed out that he’s seen more than a few head injuries in his time, and Zim’s injuries aren’t consistent with the story.
I’ll also add that Bees’ “brain blood” is laughable. The head and scalp generally bleed profusely, even with shallow cuts or lacerations, because the blood vessels are close to the surface.
Aye, do I hear this right? Bees admits that Zim is lying/changing his story, but that it’s because of his non existent “brain injury” from a surface, shallow laceration? LOL
@MataHarley:
Yep. As I understand it, that’s the crux of what she wishes to believe.
MATA
WELL WHAT AM I DOING HERE?
YOU GOT THE MOB READY TO HANG HIM, WHY BOTHER WITH THE COURT?
SEND HIM FREE, HE WON’T MAKE IT ALIVE ANYWAY,AND SAVE THE MONEY OF THE TAXPAYERS,
CUT THE MONEY OF THE PROSECUTOR AND THE JUGE AND FUTURE JURY,
WHY SPEND MORE?
YOU KNOW I RELATED THE GUN OWNERSHIP RIGHT NOT THE ZIMMERMAN CASE,
THE MOVIE THEATER DID NOT PERMIT GUN OWNERS TO CARRY, AND THAT IS A MISTAKE COSTING LIVES, IF ONLY AT THE LEAST THEY WOULD HAVE SUPPLY ONE GUARD WHO HAD A GUN MANY LIVES WOULD HAVE BEEN SAVED, THAT WAS MY POINT
AND THE ONLY SIMILARITY WITH ZIMMERMAN IS THAT HE WOULD BE DEAD IF IT WAS NOT FOR HIS GUN, THE OTHER WOULD BE ALIVE,
WHICH ONE YOU DID WANT TO BE ALIVE, IS THERE ANY CHOICE TO MAKE AND DECIDE TO BE KILL BECAUSE ZIMMERMAN WOULD THINK HE IS LESS THAN THE ONE KILLING HIM?
Unlike you, Bees… who does want to set him free without a trial… I support the trial and I see why they are charging murder two. If a jury acquits him, I’m good. If they convict him, I’m also good. That’s the way our system works, and I see no reason why Zimmerman should be given a pass to be above it. And I’m quite fatigued with you and buds, quick with the “lynch” and “hanging” comments just because I support our system, and see why those charges are valid. If there is any “lynching” going on, it’s been by those who have been attacking Martin’s character in order to elevate Zimmerman to the demi-god you’ve made him out to be.
There is *no* similarity between the theater massacre and Zimmerman/Martin. A responsible CCW gun owner pulls his gun out as a last resort of self defense.. which would have been necessary in the theater massacre, but not in a fist fight with a teenager that he, himself, created the conditions for happening. It’s nothing short of wishful hyperbole to suggest that the end of that fist fight would be a dead Zimmerman. These things happen daily, as well as *real* head injuries, and death is not always inevitable. Personally, had Zimmerman done that to me that night, I would have attempted to beat him into unconsciousness for self defense myself.
Zimmerman, as a CCW gun owner is a poster child for the liberals who want stricter gun laws. Here’s a guy who tells Hannity that he carries every day, but tells the CVSA officer that “forgets” he had a gun, has had both restraining orders and a violent charge in his past, plus has admitted he takes regular drugs for ADHD. This guy may be responsible for SYG laws going down nationwide, plus stricter criteria on CCW permits. He’s singlehandedly done irreparable damage to RKBA rights. Thus the reason you don’t see the NRA types out front, supporting Zimmerman.
MATA
I understand your point, I read them again and again to comprehend your side,
and you have to agree that he is alive because he had his gun in this circumstance, you have to agree that the other was out to kill him and he said so. and the witness saw it to,
no I don’t make him demi-god , just a human been there to help the neighborhood,
I have read despicable negatives toward him, but no matter if or who he is and has done,
the trial is only for what he has done at the particular instant he felt threaten to die,
that is the subject to my mind only,
if we elaborate we might want to kill him ourselves if all we read are true, but it would be for not this case and it would be wrong.
Ron H.
come on you gave the unlikes buttons
bring it on
MATA
ANOTHER THOUGHT come to mind on that case alone;
all the break-ins which have rob and scare the community
are responsible for what happen when you dig deep, they all together
contribute to building a death somewhere in the future, and that future came with his bomb
ready , and we have that death, which could have happened any time of any break- in,
but the writing on the wall was there all the time, it could have been done by anybody in those apartments,
sooner or later,
those gangsters who did it, are not getting caught, but
sure as hell TRAYVON IS THE ONE WHO PAID FOR THEIR CRIME. IT’S ON THEIR CONSCIENCE
AYE
on 127
between your measures and mine there are the right measure,
just trying to be funny there
bye
MATA
on 132
you forgot the fist fight was coming from the attacker only,
the other was prevented from using his fist by the attacker locking him down,
with his body weight on him. meaning he had the upper hand,using a certain training
he had learned,
while the other was unable to fight with a fist, therefor only his gun could separate them,
TRAYVON knew that ZIMMERMAN was communicating with
the POLICE, so a stalker don’t do that, beside the big sign
on the ground,telling all he could want to know, why
that man is checking on him.
@ilovebeeswarzone:
The hooded Martin circled the Zimmerman’s vehicle twice, likely at an intimidating close range. Zimmerman’s reaction thereto was to plea with police dispatcher to speed the patrolman on his way. Martin knew Zimmerman had a cellphone. Martin knew Zimmerman used that cellphone to talk to the police. What did Martin hear of those calls that caused him to
fleeretreat? Did Martin discover that a patrolman was on the way?Aye, there’s the rub.
Stalkers of course don’t ring up the police ask for the aid of a patrolman. The whole young Saint-Skittles of Tea and Innocence in fear of a unknown cracker stalker story is naught but a lie. If Dee Dee’s story has any element of truth it is that Martin was in fear but of the patrolman who was on his way.
Aye, there is another rub. Never do the Trayvonistas ask why, as Martin The Innocent knew that Zimmerman was calling for help, why didn’t Martin remove his hood, approach Zimmerman in the car and ask for help himself? Perhaps Martin could have said something like this: Hello sir, I’m real new to the neighborhood. I went out to the 7-11, it’s raining, it’s dark, and now I can’t find my way back home to the Green residence where my dad lives? Can you help me? If Martin was indeed “innocent” and sober, as the Trayvinista’s insist, it seems most likely that one way or another the watchman and/or the patrolman would have es courted young Trayvon Martin safely home in short order.
The Trayvonistas seem to maintain some unspoken presumption which precluded this reasonable course of action on Martin’s part. Perhaps that unspoken presumption is that young gangsta wanna-be’s just don’t behave that way? Nor do they perhaps expect young black men such as Trayvon Martin to act is a neighborly fashion?
I see you still don’t want to substantiate your claim about circling twice in the sphere of physics and reality. I’ve asked. (comment #34) Even asked a second time (comment #104). Yet you dodge, shuck and jive Zimmerman’s conundrum, and still babble about circling. Let’s try again, shall we? Been letting you skate with BS far too long. So I’ll lay this out (again, but this time in more detail) easily for people to understand what Zimmerman’s problems are, based on his own stories.
POINT ONE: Zimmerman’s interview with Serino and Singleton, questioning him where he was during the dialogue in his dispatcher call, reveals the circling is a physical impossibility. Dispatcher time elapsed:
Zimmerman confirms he’s parked at the clubhouse during this above exchange.. then says “I think so”. Singleton points out that he’s passed Martin to park at the clubhouse just before this, so is this is Martin catching up to him there. He confirms. He’d have to, yes? That is if he wants to assert that he ever stopped at the clubhouse to call at all. Zimmerman also confirmed that Martin passed him by while he was at the clubhouse, rounded the corner and that he followed behind Martin in his car… he was never ahead of him… to the Twin Trees location.
Marker – at 1’24″, Zimmerman’s parked in front of the clubhouse on Retreat View Circle (as shown in the reenactment video)
Zimmerman states that Martin does NOT circle his car at the Clubhouse. Nor does he say he was circled on the dispatcher call.
At 2’08″… 42 seconds later…. Zimmerman is parked at the Twin Trees last location and says “shit.. he’s running”. Of course, when Serino asked him to describe the run… a jog? flat out run? fast walk?… Zimmerman could not, or would not, describe and just said “I don’t know”. But of course, with Hannity, he had an epiphany and told Sean that “”he was more … skipping, going away quickly. But he wasn’t running out of fear.” We can add that to the growing list of Zimmerman inconsistencies.
Six seconds after Martin is “skipping” away, Zimmerman is out of his car in pursuit. Another four seconds, and Zimmerman’s fast walk cloth movement (or what he likes to call “wind” on the reenactment video.. LOL) starts and continues until he stops at 2’42″.
That’s 24 seconds of a fast walk away from his car, a distance of about 133 ft to the tree near the N-S death path, where he finishes his dispatcher’s call. He confirms this approximate location on the reenactment video, screws up and later tells the cop he’s on the phone when he gets to the east end of RVC, then again corrects himself as to hanging up at the tee.
In between 1’24″ and 2’08″, Zimmerman had to do the drive from the clubhouse to Twin Trees, following Martin. Serino made him clarify that he was never in front of Martin in his car, always behind.
So O’Malley… A little test for your sense and sensibilities.
1: There’s 42 seconds between Martin passing by Zim at the clubhouse on RVC-N, (telling the dispatcher that Martin is “coming to check me out”.) to Martin taking off “skipping”
2: It’s 368′ approximate (Google Earth path measure tool) from from the clubhouse parking spot to where Zimmerman ended up parking by the Twin Trees intersection with the E-W cut thru path
3: Martin was not “running” or “skipping” when Zimmerman was following him in the car. He doesn’t “skip” until he gets to the E-W path, again via Zimmerman himself via his various interviews.
4: In the reenactment video, Zimmerman says that while he’s parked at the Twin Trees location, Martin goes down the path and to the right between the rows, comes back out, walks up the grass, circles his car, then starts to “run”.
5: From the Twin Trees path, around the corner is about 180′. To return to circle the car – *just once* – is another 230′ approx retracing of steps.
6: This means the total distance that Martin had to travel- from the clubhouse, around the corner and back to threateningly circle Zim in his parked car – is a total of about 778 ft. This gets him back to the very location at the Twin Trees and E-W path, where Zim said Martin started “running/skipping”.
7: At no time during this described path was Martin “running” or “skipping” prior to that 2’08″ moment, per Zimmerman.
Do you have the distances, facts and time now? All utterings from Mr. Zimmerman himself.
Your task, should you be fool enough to accept it, is to tell us all how Martin made it a total of 778′ – from passing Zim at the clubhouse at 1’24″ – to the E-W path, around the corner between the rows of homes, then come back to circle Zimmerman’s car… all in 42 seconds?
HINT: For the larger than life, Herculean Martin to accomplish this Zimmerman concocted fantasy, he needs to be not “running” or “skipping” at a pace of 18 feet per second.
uh… don’t think so.
This means two things… Zimmerman is lying about the circling, just like you are. And it’s also possible that Zimmerman is lying about being parked at the clubhouse at all, and maybe he was always parked at the Twin Trees location. Either way, he’s lying.
The “circling” is a Zimmerman addition in order to make Martin appear threatening, and thereby justify his attempted neighbhorhood heroics in pursuing.
POINT TWO: Reminding you of what you said… …”likely at an intimidating close range. Zimmerman’s reaction thereto was to plea with police dispatcher to speed the patrolman on his way.”
So now you are suggesting, as you’ve done before, that Zimmerman is intimidated by Martin. Too intimidated to roll down his car window, while on the phone with a dispatcher, and ID himself to Martin? If he is so intimidated and scared he can’t even do that from the safety of his car and a gun within his reach, why does he get out of the car to pursue him on foot?
And don’t babble to me about addresses. Not only was his car parked right in front of addresses (row of Twin Trees homes on the south side of the street where he was parked) Zimmerman told his co-workers, and his air marshal pal, that he got out of the car to *follow* Martin the day after the shooting. oops… The address crap is yet another fabrication.
And the street sign is another moment for the gullible. A man who patrols the neighborhood, per the witness statements, 2-3 times weekly, and doesn’t know the name of the three streets? Well, Zim had an answer for that lie too… he told the CVSA officer he couldn’t remember the name of the street because of his ADHD. (Maybe that’s why he also told that officer he “forgot” he was carrying a gun??? LOL)
The problem with Zimmerman is he’s a chronic liar, and these are only a few of the lies exposed. There is a larger list beyond this. It doesn’t involve witnesses or speculation. It’s all George, and using only George’s words and various stories. Thus he has a serious credibility problem.
Then, of course, there’s that pesky problem of the bullet holes in the hoodie and inner shirt lining up perfectly together, but they aren’t lining up with the bullet entry wound on the body. It seems that the two shirts were being clutched, and was pulled down when the barrel was pressed into Martin’s chest. Since Zimmerman, himself (via CVSA story), says that Martin’s hands were (one) on his nose, and (the other) going down his side to go for his gun, we know that Martin wasn’t grabbing his own shirts.
On the other hand, Zimmerman tells the CVSA officer, and demonstrates, that he drew his gun, and detailed that he extended it beyond his hand.. and that he was very careful to do so. (of course, he told his air marshal bud that his elbow was on the ground when he shot… sigh).
With the bullet holes misalignment, what Zimmerman demonstrates in his CVSA video account is that he was grabbing Martin’s shirts, restraining and pulling him towards him with one hand, while he drew his gun with the other, extended the gun beyond his hand clutching the shirts to “aim” and fire into Martin’s chest. He wanted to be careful not to shoot his own hand grabbing Martin, and pulling him towards him and into the gun.
This also means that if Martin were mounted on Zimmerman, he wasn’t putting the full weight of his body and leaning towards his face, as Zimmerman says. For the shirts to be pulled down to align with the body entry wound, Martin would have to be sitting upright, pulling back and up, while Zimmerman was clutching his shirts, pulling the opposite way (towards him and down) to stop him from getting away. Otherwise there is no way to explain the alignment between clothing and body.
Speaking of pesky problems, ol’ George has yet to explain how this fight for his life that happened at the tee, or just south a few feet by that first tree (reenactment video), can be so far from where the body was found 45′ or so south. That’s one heck of a “push” to get the body off, eh?
Forensics, evidence and his own words… it ain’t working out for ol’ George and his fables.
@MataHarley:
Hello sir, I’m real new to the neighborhood. I went out to the 7-11, it’s raining, it’s dark, and now I can’t find my way back home to the Green residence where my dad lives. Can you help me?
Still babbling in order to distract, O’malley? Exactly when did Martin circle Zimmerman’s car during that dispatcher’s call? And if Zim was too intimidated or scared to roll down the window and identify himself as the neighborhood watch from the safety of his car – while on the phone with the police dispatcher, PLUS having a gun – why did he get out of the car to pursue that scary individual who wasn’t doing anything wrong?
Come on, Mike. You’re the big guy with all the answers. Clean up your mess on aisle 9.
@MataHarley:
Now Mata…you don’t really expect O’Malley to answer do you?
He has a long history of doing the duck, dodge, shuck, and jive tap dance routine when the questions become tough or inconvenient to his argument.
He’d rather focus on why it would have been a really swell idea for Martin to approach this guy who was persistently following him in the darkness. After all, it’s not like this strange man who was following him just might have had a gun with which to shoot him in the chest and kill him.
@MataHarley:
Thank you for your extended reply MataHarley.
I’m unwilling to invest in your timeline reconstructions MataHarley because I find that you regularly omitted important information and facts, that do not fit your narrative, when you discuss the Martin-Zimmerman incident. I have tried to addressed this with you several times. You may recall my repeated comparisons of your omissions to that of prosecutor Angela Corey.
I do however often verify information you provide that is contrary to what I’ve gathered. There I find you more helpful. For instance you were correct, George Zimmerman did put his cellphone in his pocket so that, at the moment he struck, Trayvon Martin would have observed a flashlight in one of Zimmerman’s hands and the other hand empty. What you refuse to admit into consideration is the preponderance of evidence indicating the Martin observed and knew of Zimmerman’s cellphone. I recall no evidence, at least no objective evidence you have provided indicating that Martin was aware of Zimmerman’s gun until Martin was sitting on top of Zimmerman and beating Zimmerman. Similarly MataHarley, maybe I missed it but I do not recall that you have provided evidence suggesting that Martin might reasonably have expected that Zimmerman was then in possession of a firearm at the time Martin struck.
As for be-hooded Martin twice circling Zimmerman’s vehicle, I learned of that from Curt by way of his postings and links to TalkLeft and Conservative Treehouse.
But aye, there’s the rub. Whether Martin circled Zimmerman’s vehicle once or twice has little effect on the points I was trying to make at #138 above.
Stalkers of course don’t ring up the police ask for the aid of a patrolman. The whole young Saint-Skittles of Tea and Innocence in fear of a unknown cracker stalker story is naught but a lie. If Dee Dee’s story has any element of truth it is that Martin was in fear but of the patrolman who was on his way.
Martin The Innocent knew that Zimmerman was calling for help, why didn’t Martin remove his hood, approach Zimmerman in the car and ask for help himself? Perhaps Martin could have said something like this: Hello sir, I’m real new to the neighborhood. I went out to the 7-11, it’s raining, it’s dark, and now I can’t find my way back home to the Green residence where my dad lives? Can you help me? If Martin was indeed “innocent” and sober, as the anti-Zimmermanists insist, it seems most likely that one way or another the watchman and/or the patrolman would have escorted young Trayvon Martin safely home in short order.
The anti-Zimmermanists seem to maintain some unspoken presumption which precludes this reasonable course of action on Martin’s part. Perhaps that unspoken presumption is that young gangsta wanna-be’s just don’t behave that way? Nor do they perhaps expect young black men such as Trayvon Martin to act is a prudent neighborly fashion?
Decades ago during the era of Jim Crowe, when a young Black male could actually get himself killed in the wrong neighborhood by a rogue racist White cop, African American fathers taught their sons how to politely deescalate dangerous confrontations with White authority figures. Time has moved on and now a young man with a Cripped out father has died because he was unable to navigate an innocent neighborhood incident with a Afro-Peruian Hispanic watchman, a neighbor. The cult of the hoodie obscures underlying truth, does it not?
@Mike O’Malley observations:
The flashlight wasn’t working… per Zimmerman. Why would he be holding a flashlight that didn’t work? duh.. Nor do you know what Zim had in his hands because he has never said. Making it up as you go along.
What “preponderance of evidence” would that be? uh… none. Making this up as you go along.
Of course, you again are making things up as you go along. I never said that Martin was aware of Zimmerman’s gun. In fact, we don’t know that Martin was aware of Zimmerman’s gun at any time prior to Zim shooting him, save for Zim’s bogus and incredible variations of events.
What I said… take this in slowly… is that after a guy follows you, hunts you, all for five minutes or more, then, when you speak to him “reaches” for something in his pockets, it is a very threatening move. Precisely the same movement that got an Anaheim suspect shot last week by police. Martin, already victimized by a hunting Zim, would have no reason to think he was pulling out a peace offering.
So the dodge, shuck and jive continues… only now you want to blame your lack of curiosity in the evidence and physical possibilities on the dribblings of others. Either it was possible for Martin to circle Zim’s car as he says, or it wasn’t. Tell us how that was possible, Mike. Or stop parroting it like it’s a fact.
Of course not. Responsible neighborhood watch people call either 911 or the NEN, and don’t get out of their car to stalk and continue to hunt.
You’re making this up as you go along again. There is no evidence that Martin was aware Zim was on the phone save for the PD, attempting to play good cop/bad cop with Zim. They did the same when they told him that Martin had a video of the event. All that was prior to the release of Dee’s full statement.
And twice you’ve mentioned the hood on a sweatshirt. What is this bias you seem to have against sweatshirt that have hoods, and are used? Have several myself, and that is a clothing feature I’ve used often. Guess I should watch myself around people like you.
So, again according to you, this is Martin’s fault again. Martin knew where he was going. Why should he ask someone sitting in a car anything?
He was innocent of doing any criminal actions that evening, and the toxicology levels prove that he was not under the influence of THC at that time. He needed no escort, and needed to ask no questions. This insistence about being on drugs is simply another desperate lie you parrot, like the circling. Nor did he need an “escort” anywhere because he knew exactly where he was going.
The rest of your hyperbole is more of the usual trial of Martin’s character. Again I will say, Martin is the victim, and is not the person being tried for murder two. I am not anti-Zimmerman. I am pro US judicial system. Zimmerman’s story stinks as it is, and it’s up to a jury to sort it out. You, apparently, believe that Zimmerman should be elevated above our laws because you’ve decided you don’t like Martin.
Someone has a very odd perspective here, and it sure isn’t me.
@ Mata Harley
I see your reasoning and appreciate the effort you have put into placing the protagonists into a timeline. What I can’t get past is that until the first punch landed the whole thing was a misunderstanding of intent on both parts. Another aspect I believe not considered, is that minor brain trauma can produce reduced consciousness while allowing normal function. “Getting your bell rung”, can do that. I’ve had that happen twice, I could tell you what town/stadium I as was in the next day,but anything after the hit was a blank, including the exact location.
brian winkler
hi,
yes I do believe what you said, and even one who drink too much will the day after get
the lapsus of memories,
so even more if your head was bash repeatedly on a concrete edge,, is to be expected to happen, all in different degrees
bye
@MataHarley:
As time permits I will return to address your extended response MataHarley. We can start here though:
One wonders just what did I make up in your quote of me above? Nor do I recall stating the you MataHarley “said that Martin was aware of Zimmerman’s gun”. If I indeed made such a claim please show me where I did so. Review what I wrote in my #143 above and find that I did not claim in #143 you MataHarley “said that Martin was aware of Zimmerman’s gun”.
From your response I gather that we have come to a place of agreement. It may be a small place but it seems we agree that there is no evidence, at least no objective evidence, that Martin was aware of Zimmerman’s gun until Martin was sitting on top of Zimmerman and beating Zimmerman.
.
Now MataHarley tell us, is there objective evidence for the condition of Trayvon Martin’s mind at the moment when George Zimmerman reached for his cellphone and Martin struck his first blow? Moreover specifically, what objective evidence is there that Trayvon Martin thought or was in fear of Zimmerman reaching for a gun? Please provide such objective evidence you have.
.
It would then appear that the good citizens of Anaheim strongly disagree with you about whether or not reaching into one’s pockets is a very threatening move, no? The US Department of Justice likewise appears to disagree with you about whether or not reaching into one’s pockets is a very threatening move
.
BTW: no minor point here. In both the 2009 and 2012 Anaheim shootings the Anaheim police claimed that both men were reaching into their waistbands not into their pockets. The information you provide MataHarley needs to be more accurate for it to be reliable. Young men have been known to carry guns in their wastebands and cellphones in their pockets. Young men are NOT known to carry guns in their pockets and cellphones in their wastebands.
Mike O’Malley
hi, IT COULD HAVE BEEN SAID, ABOUT THE GUN ACKNOWLEDGEMENT BY TRAYVON,
at the very first post on the subject or those who followed, it might have been me , which was assuming and building a scenario as it could have been other too,
simply because we where building a case with just a few news coming out a bite at a time,
we where evolving and discussing the case on our own guts feeling as logicly as we could, and that all before the other news came, some also assuming like we did,
then more facts started to arrive, and we all worked on it to understand each minute details,
and taking stand for or against, meaning guilty or innocent, the two camps where rigorously keeping informed on the post new bits,
I vaguely remember that gun matter being on the table, but with all the different POSTS SPROUTING OUT, IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE AND A LONG TIME TO FIND THE EXACT COMMENT, AND IT’S SOURCE BEING LEGIT OR ASSUMED
BYE
What on earth does the federal DOJ have to do with this, O’Malley? Unless it’s a federal jurisdictional killing by federal officers, it’s a matter of State charges, as most are. And of course the reason you can provide no links or cases supporting your babble is because what you say above is patently false.
Atlanta LEO, Reginald Miller, was acquitted of shooting Tramaine Miller in the face because “he saw Miller reach beneath his seat and grab something that he mistook for a gun.” That’s not a waistband either… it was a threatening movement.
Then there is Amadou Diallo, who reached into his pocket and was shot by NYC police… who were later acquitted.
Police in Vallejo recently shot a man who refused to pull over during a routine traffic stop, and made the error or reaching into his pocket.
News and courts are filled with such incidents, O’Malley. It’s a pathetic defense to suggest the movement is not threatening – whether it’s a pocket, a waistband or under a car seat – in the aftermath of five minutes of following and hunting, merely because it wasn’t a reach into a “waistband”. Martin had no reason to believe, based on Zimmerman’s aggressive action for an elongated period of time, that he was pulling out a peace offering.
@MataHarley:
Recall Mata we have on several occasions discussed how you leave, what are for you, undesirable facts on the editing room floor much the Angela Corey does when prosecuting the Zimmermans.
Here are other practices I find of yours that are problematic when you write about the Zimmermans. At #144 above you employed a misleading term so as to further the prosecution of George Zimmerman. As I said this is no minor point. In both the 2009 and 2012 Anaheim shootings the Anaheim police claimed that both men were reaching into their waistbands not into their pockets. The information you provide MataHarley needs to be more accurate for it to be reliable. Young men have been known to carry guns in their wastebands and cellphones in their pockets. Young men are NOT known to carry guns in their pockets and cellphones in their wastebands.
Also, it should be obvious to any fair minded person that the five examples you have provided from Anaheim, Atlanta, NYC and Vallejo are obviously inapplicable here. Moreover the popular protests in the Anaheim and NYC incident obviously undermine your point. It seems that many African Americans and others do not believe the reaching into ones pocket or wasteband for that matter is “a very threatening” act. [At least where the man with the reach is not named Zimmerman.]
I’m going to post this and follow-up on #149 as time allows too. But Mata these are among a few examples of the highly problematic way you select and deploy information to prosecute George Zimmerman.