Dana Loesch @ Big Peace:
An American has been killed on the 11th anniversary of 9/11 as Islamist mobs attacked and burned the U.S. consulate in Libya.
A US official was killed and another wounded on Tuesday as an armed mob protesting over a film they said offended Islam attacked the US consulate in Benghazi, an official told AFP.
Libya’s deputy interior minister Wanis al-Sharef said: “One American official was killed and another injured in the hand. The other staff members were evacuated and are safe and sound.”
He could not say if the dead man was a diplomat.
It is so far the only death from mob attacks in Libya and Egypt over Islamist anger at an alleged film in production by Coptic Christians focusing on Islam. The United States spent 9/11 apologizing for hurting Islamists’ feelings in Egypt which incited protesters to desecrate our flag and storm the walls of the U.S. embassy.
@Tom:
Thank you for the link to the pictures. Maybe if more of these were actually seen, and in our MSM, then it would be easier to believe that the majority of the Islamic faith was against such terrorist attacks. Maybe it’s a case of pictures like this not playing as well as the shots and video of the extremists. I don’t know. I can only believe what I see and read about, as far as that is concerned.
As for Romney, I stated before that Romney deserves no praise. Nor does he deserve derision.
@MataHarley:
And I agree with that, Mata. I’ve pretty much said so. I do not, however, assign any part of the blame for the killings to the film-maker. Again, no one forced those people to kill. Conscious choice by them.
No, you haven’t. In fact, like the Bachmann/McCarthy discussion, you refuse to state any opinion other than the jihadists are responsible for the killing, and that the bogus filmmaker… of unknown background and allegiance.. is “accurate”. Odd to say when you look at the farce of a $5 mil production he created. Frankly, whoever gave him cash should demand it back, or at least accounted for.
@MataHarley:
STOP IT. I have not defended, IN ANY WAY, Pastor Terry Jones. But he has a U.S. Constitutional guaranteed right to be an idiot, for Christ’s sake. And you damn well know that.
And in my book, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff does not call an ordinary civilian and tell them to curtain their voice. And if you think that is not coersion, having such a high government official calling you to tell you to do something you may not want to do, then you are beyond all hope.
Free speech. It is what it is, and when you start using lofty government officials to try to suppress it, then it no longer exists. I don’t like what Jones says, AND HAVE NEVER DEFENDED HIM, but I will defend his right to be an idiot, just like I will defend Sandra Fluke for her right to be an idiot, a useful idiot at that. And you damn well better accept that trying to bring pressure on people to abdicate their Constitutional rights in the name of polical correctness is a slippery slope that we don’t need to go down.
The fact of the matter is that the YouTube clips of a movie no one has ever seen didn’t have a damn thing to do with what is now being reported as a planned attack on the consulate in Libya. It didn’t have a damn thing to do with the consulate being bombed today anymore than it had anything to do with the consulate being bombed in June.
If you want to lay blame at anyone’s feet, lay the blame where it belongs, on Obama, and his failed Middle East policy of appeasement.
@MataHarley:
You are right. I haven’t stated that. I did state this;
I amended what I should have said, back in #60;
I have no problem with you or anyone denouncing the film, and film-maker. I never did. My point has been, has always been, since Greg first wanted to assign “blood on the hands” to the film-maker, that a conscious choice by those committing the murders are the only ones who deserve blame for them.
Hey… said it a ga’zillion times. No problem he was within his rights. I’ll say that to the death.
But let’s be honest here, johngalt. Greg’s original “deport him!” comment has been long gone. No one other than Greg has suggested he have any legal repercussions. And he did so only once. That’s been what… 100 or so comments ago?
What you, and far too many here, have done is tiptoe around any hint of negative criticism of this idiot, using the banner of free speech as your cover. Only the oblivious could miss the deliberate omissions and furious sidling being done.
@MataHarley:
Why does anyone have to spew negative criticism of the film maker? Do you think that will make the degerate Muslims in Libya and Egypt feel better about the U.S.? My personal opinion of him has nothing to do with his Constitutional rights to say what ever the hell he wants to say. But Obama sending his lackey, Gen. Dempsey, to call and try to intimidate a private citizen over what the Oval Office has deemed politically incorrect speech goes beyond the pale and should make you as sick to your stomach as it does me.
Frankly, here what I think: Obama should make it very clear that Americans have the right to free speech and free expression and if the Egyptians don’t like it because of their own double standards where no one can bash their religion but they have no qualms about bashing the Jewish and Christian faiths, too damn bad. But that won’t happen with the gutless wonder that currenly resides in the White House. So stop trying to lay blame on a movie, or its producer, that have not even been seen by one damn Muslim in Egypt or Libya.
In 1988, a film called The Last Tempation of Christ was widely viewed in the U.S. and in Europe. It was a horrible depiction of Jesus, even having him lust after Mary Magdelan. Did Christians take to the streets, rioting in front of the producers home, dragging him out to the streets to murder him? Did Christians take to the streets locating the artist who gave us PissChrist? No and No. Yet, when it comes to Muslims, any slight is reason for violence. No matter how large or how small, or even if simply perceived to be a slight. Yet some excuse those actions blaming it on a movie.
As long as certain people excuse the actions of the 7th centery cretins based on their faith being insulted, these actions like we saw in Libya, and which are still going on in Cairo, will continue. I agree with others. We should just tell the Islamists to go to hell and that if they don’t learn to play nice, we will take away their playgrounds.
And why isn’t our leadership mentioning to the Egyptians that they need to start showing respect for other religions and cease burning down Coptic Churches.
Running With Scisors made Postal 2 and is far more offensive about Islam than anything in the film that was supposedly protested over on Tuesday, even flat out assaulting Shik and Hindu religons within the same lumpy package. Not a damn thing was done by these offended groups when Postal 2 was released or later transfered to GOG.com for distrubution. Joe Liberman lead an attempt to have the game denied ESRP ratings so it could not be published, but failed as it infringed on RWS’s freedom of Press and Speech as a game developer. The game is terrible gameplay wise and fratboy level humor, but still protected speech no matter how offensive it is.
This claim of being offended over a film is the most weakly veiled reason to violently attack and assault Americans I ever heard, because they got offended by some jackwagon who expressed his political point of view? Athiests use similar offensive attacks on other Religons, and the Athiests have First Admendement protections to do so. Whoever physically attacks an author of “Offending” political content is not justified in any way or manner by the Law and whoever made the offensive material is not the guilty party. As Mata points out, frankly the film is a childishly idiotic one but it is a political point over how the director sees a religon. Freedom of Speech does not protect people who have hurt feelings over offending materials. I find My Little Pony: Magic is Friendship an offending piece of entertainment, but it’s protected by freedom of Press but the broadcast companies are not able to force me by the First Admendment to watch the show. Offended peoples are not forced to be audiences to offending content, nor are authors of offending content protected by the 1st Admendment responsible for violent behavior of those who were offended (those who comit the violence is responsible if found guilty in court of law still.)
Best way to form a Tyranny is to surpress the people’s right to Speech, Press, and individual choice of Religon. The liberal pukes here who argue that those who made “offensive” political point of views are somehow the guilty party is so out of touch of reality it would be a comedy piece in classic playwright to fit the archetype village idiot if it were not the fact 4 Americans are now dead and possibly more could be harmed as this Administration has yet to take any measures to stop this.
Here’s a hint, some of you Liberals make offensive and bigoted comments about conservatives or “ultra-conservatives” or people of Christian demoniations. As far as I can assume all of us here do not condone nor wish to see violence, but your langauge and your behaviors here in the past have been rather abrasive and toxic. So in your own logics, you would be the guilty party why someone reacted violentely to your words due such words possibly being seen as infringing on their feelings for being so offensive or intollerant of their personal view points. So your logic is strip all people their right to free Speech, and grant only select political and religous groups you deem “acceptable” the right just to make sure a radical fringe violent group doesn’t attack others from being “offended”?
In Cairo, the city is becoming a trash heap literally as sections of the City have no trash collections while Libya is dealing with its own social-economical problems and needing an external enemy to distract the problems the “new” governments have not been able to address nor fix the problems that spawned the rebelions in the first place in rapid manner. Still, 4 Americans dead over that some people got “offended?” Libyans just attacked an Embassy and killed an Ambassador along with the Marines trying to protect the Ambassador that is generally considered a declaration of War and this Administration’s Staff issues out an apology to those who did the killings then backtracks the apology, then has a General trying to intimidate an American private Citizen who created content supposedly at root of why the Libyans are “offended” on the anniversry of 9/11/01 horror? … Really?
@MataHarley:
Because, Mata, and again, negative criticism of the film-maker doesn’t matter when the concern, or issue, is who is responsible for killing our people.
I gave you, before, the reasons why I didn’t criticize, or applaud, the film-maker. Maybe you missed it.
#75
I said why I didn’t comment on the film-maker, and you are arguing as if I should have, from the get-go.
You have been doing so since the start, Mata.
And my point goes to more than just Greg. Lib1 and Rich have also suggested that the film-maker has blood on his hands.
And when you consider the evidence that the violent protest and murders may have happened, regardless of the film itself, I’d say that my point about who is at fault(for the murders), is justified.
Way back in 2008 it was awesomely awesome for a candidate to critique and criticize the current administration.
Roll the tape:
Exit Question: Why were US Marines assigned the responsibility of safeguarding our Egyptian embassy denied the right to carry live ammunition?
AYE,
this is unacceptable, why don’t the PENTAGONE MOVE IN TO reverse that decision,
THE EMBASSY WOMAN IS WACKY NEED TO BE REMOVE AT ONCE,
TO DISARMED THE MARINE IS HIGH TREASON TO AMERICA,
IT WILL BRING MORE DEATHS,
OH MY AMERICA GET MOVING, DON’T ALLOW THAT TO BE HAPPENING,
OBAMA IS OPENING THE DOOR WIDE OPEN TO THOSE TERRORIST AND SEND THE MARINES UNARMED
TO DEFEND A CRAZY WOMAN ON THE EGYPT EMBASSY, SHE SOLD HER ALLEGIANCE TO THE FOREIGNERS IN EGYPT SHE IS A TRAITOR PUTTING THE MARINES IN DANGER
@Aye:
May I offer a guess? For the same reason Secretary of Defense Les Aspin refused requests for tanks and armored vehicles in support of Operation Somalia-2 shortly before the the Battle of Mogadishu in 1993?
Now I’ll post a question of my own in return. Protecting an embassy is the responsibility of the host country. Why did the Egyptian government not protect the US embassy?
Found one answer from The Independent:
@johngalt:
We rush to judgment because we are afraid of hard truth?
I’ll quote an interesting essay published at American Thinker almost a year ago.
Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/11/obamas_new_libya.html#ixzz26OsNZwxP
This sort of ambiguity suggests a CIA operative with diplomatic immunity.
Was Chris Stevens CIA? Was Chris Stevens CIA station chief in Libya perhaps?
Did AQ just take out a CIA station Chief?
@Nan G:
That is evidence that the current government of Libya is deflecting blame because they were either complicit in the attack or because their incompetence was so great it needs to be hidden behind a lie.
If the blame is being “deflected” in Libya, how does one explain Tunisia, Yemen and Egypt… and now you can add Morocco and Sudan? Or are some going to stick their fingers in their ears and pretend that the Islamists don’t get their jubbas all knotted up easily, and happily use this crap as their rallying cry? After all, when the Copts insult Mohammad, they are insulting all Muslims, not just Islamists.. and that’s what they love to stress to the moderate Muslims.
But now that convicted bank fraud con, “Bacile”, has failed in his attempt to have the Jews to take responsibility for his production, the Eqyptian Copts fear they’ll also be targets.
Or was that part of his plan too?
IT’S MIND BOGELING, HOW CAN AMERICAN EVER ABLE TO COEXIST WITH THAT MENTALITY,
THEY COME TO DESTROY,NOT TO HAVE THE FREEDOM THIS NATION HAVE, THEY WANT TO OWN AND SUBMIT, AND IMPOSE OR KILL,
DON’T LET THEM EMIGRATE HERE THEY WILL TAKE AWAY THE BEST OF YOU THEY ARE IN POWER RIGHT NOW AS WE SPEAK,
USING THAT POWER TO DIVIDE AND SPREAD HATE, TO HURT YOU SOON AFTER THEY STOP SMILING AT YOU TO GET YOUR
VOTES
@Nan G:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/revealed-inside-story-of-us-envoys-assassination-8135797.html
@MataHarley:
We deceived ourselves. We deceived ourselves into thinking Arab Spring was spontaneous. It was not.
It seems we wish to deceived ourselves again. Arab Winter it is becoming apparent is no more spontaneous than was Arab Spring.
Speak for yerself there, Mr. O’Malley. I was never “deceived” and never bought one bit of the “democracy” BS. In fact most of the FA crowd didn’t, and I’m not alone in seeing thru it all.
The same can be said for the other extreme, Nan G. Just as the bogus “civil rights” leaders have a vested Alinsky interest in keeping America’s blacks living in the past, the anti-Semites and Islamophobes have their own agendas to pursue. The rhetoric on either side will not be tamped down, and all the rest of us can do is ride the wave of consequences… some more heinous than others will experience. But only the extreme factions on either side will benefit.
Mata, #125, you make a great point.
Someone else pointed out that an entire people can collectively be put into dhimmitude by their leader.
Then later, if even ONE person does an act that breaks the pack of dhimmitude, the entire community is no longer a ”protected people.”
In the video the dhimmis are described as paying ”extortion.” (This is the dhimmi tax also called the jizya.)
No amount of dhimmi tax can make up for an individual Copt insulting Islam.
As with any plot this guy’s film might have had unintended consequences.
The targeting of US interests might have been an intended consequence or one unintended.
The hell now coming down on Egypt’s Copts might be unintended or intended.
We have to admit we don’t know what the guys MAIN agenda was.
One thing is for sure: Imams all over Islam could either build up hostilities OR they could dampen them down.
It is in their hands.
What will they say at Friday prayers, later today?
ONE THING FOR SURE WE HAVE DIFFERENT CHARACTERS AMONG OUR OWN COUNTRY,
WE COPE WITH MOST CHARACTERS SINCE THE FOUNDATION OF AMERICA,
some are leaning toward wrong doing, on different degrees from hot head, or hard head,
or quick temper, or big mouth, or bad mouth, or arrogant insulting bullies, and on up the scale the criminals again on different level of crime, the alcoholic, the drugg addict,
all that we put up the best we can it is a constant battle in AMERICA, JUST LIKE IN ANY COUNTRIES,
NOW WHY THE HELL WOULD WE WANT TO ADD THOSE EXPLOSIFS NUTS TO OUR COMMUNITY,
AND LET THEM LIVE IN OUR COUNTRY,
DON’T WE HAVE ENOUGH OF LOONIES ?
WE CAN LIVE WITHOUT HAVING TO RESTRAIN OURSELF SO TO NOT OFFEND?
WHEN THOSE ARE OFFEND THEY KILL, WHO IN HIS RIGHT MIND WANT THOSE MUSLIMS
AS NEIGHBORD? CAN YOU THINK OF SCENARIO THAT WOULD PUT YOU IN DANGER?
HOW ABOUT INNOCENTLY ASK YOUR NEIGHBORD TO SHARE A GOOD WILL DINNER,
OF A SERVING OF SUCCULENT ROAST PORK AND TRIMMING TO BE KILLED,
IS THAT WHAT AMERICA WANT?
NO SURE
THIS IS WHAT OBAMA WANT FOR YOU TO SHARE WITH.
AMERICA GET YOUR BRAIN BACK WHERE IT BELONG AND VOTE FOR MITT ROMNEY
AND PAUL RYAN THE TRUE GOOD OL AMERICAN
Nan G.
i know what I would say to him
get the …out of my AMERICA AND BRING YOUR….MOSQUE WITH YOU.
AND MY WORDS DON’T KILL
@Mike O’Malley, for your reading pleasure, an old post I did at my former blog, Sea2Sea on Zawahiri’s early 2008 interview.
Laura Mansfield had done the translations for the all-Arabic and by-invitation-only interview. Zawahiri was fed the questions in advance, and answered them through the Part I interview that was released, but no longer available on the Internet. I believe that Ms. Mansfield incorporated them into her book, “His Own Words: Translation and Analysis of the Writings of Dr. Ayman Al Zawahiri”.
I have some excerpts available on my old post linked above, as well as that PDF stored on one of my archival portable drives. But Zawahiri predicted all that is happening in the wake of the US backing out of the area. The quest was to take down apostate Muslim leaders and install fundamentalists and Sharia instead.
I’ve posted these excerpts here before, probably predating your participation here. But the bottom line is that the Arab Spring was not spontaneous, was strategically planned and implemented exactly as Zawahiri said it would in early 2008.
@MataHarley:
Hat tip awarded to the most worthy MataHarley.
@MataHarley:
Perhaps I’m inclined to a darker view Mata. It has long seemed to me that a good faith effort to bring democracy to the Muslim world was worth the investment even though it might fail. For if that should fail we would seem fated to a trial by ordeal for which we are woefully unprepared.
I’ll quote from Richard Fernandez way back in March of 2005.
The Foundations of Barad-Dur
Today I finally heard Mark Levin articulate so well that which I have been unable to… and that is the real purpose of US foreign policy and it’s goals.
Whenever I would say that Gaddafi or Mubarak were allies, I was always faced with the “but they are dictators!” argument. So what? As Levin said, what is the purpose of American foreign policy but to advance American interests. In the case of both Mubarak and Gaddafi, they contained their radical elements, Gaddafi abandoned his nuke goals, both shared counterterrorism intel, and Egypt forged and kept a peace with our Israel ally in the region. All of these things benefited our national security, and whether their citizens voted or not was none of our business.
Promoting some form of a “democracy”, or merely relishing in an election, was just a foolhardy reason for celebration. Those nations were never going to be able to battle the more organized terrorist/fundamentalists organizations in their midst… especially with those like Zawahiri at the helm. The MB was always going to worm their way into power, just as Hamas and Hezbollah did in Palestinian and Lebanese governments, once they were engaging in elections.
Iraq and Afghanistan were different. In the latter, the Taliban were cooperating with AQ and that had to end. With Iraq, Saddam was also cooperating with terrorist groups and side stepping sanctions and OFF, and turning them on US interests. But Libya? Egypt? Yemen? Tunisia? All part of Zawahiri’s plan, and the US should have never taken a side because it was always going to turn out worse than what they had.
Obama was wrong on all counts.
Mike O’Malley
I WOULD SAY TO THAT THE 10 COMMANDS HAVE BEEN IGNORE BY THOSE WHO DON’T KNOW THEM,
AND ONLY KNOW THEIR KORAN, WITH HIS COMMAND,
THEY NEVER EVOLVED
SO WHAT IS THEIR HATE SOURCE?
ENVY, GREED, SHALL KILL, ECETERA, AND GOD
BYE
MATA
I always find you very generous here, by going out of your way to extend the information on posts of different themes,
I will be reading your red link tomorrow when I’m rested more,
and thank you for it,
it make me remember those heavy loaded post,example the gulf disaster kept you working hard, and all admire your stance
and detailed answered, which must have taken times of research on that one alone,
you always stood up in special times when we where demanding facts and details and you gave it to us, and you where facing the critic like a pro all the time if we tried to sway your opinion, you stood your ground and broke the chairs it was one way or another but we admire your courage to and grace to answer each one comment,
bye
Thanks for the kind words, Bees.
MATA
yes MISTER LEVINE HAS MY ADMIRATION FOR SAYING THE TRUTH, THANK YOU
FOR REPEATING IT HERE, I HAVE HEARD OF OTHER CITATION FROM HIM AND
THOUGHT ALSO VERY TRUTHFUL,HE MUST BE VERY WELL LISTEN TO. AND APPRECIATE,
BY HIS LISTENER, THAT’S WHAT IT’S ALL ABOUT, TO HAVE THE RIGHT PEOPLE
DESERVING TO TALK TO A PUBLIC SPECIALLY AT THIS TIME THEY ARE BEING LIED TOO,
BY THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT LEADER
MATA
THEY ARE WELL DESERVED AND LONG TIME COMING,
SO IT WAS MORE THAN TIME TO ARTICULATE IT
BEST TO YOU.
@Mike O’Malley: #119
Try to imagine being assigned to a group of people who are supposed to protect some people who you would like to see killed, then you see a lot of your fellow citizens coming to attack the building they are in. Would you give your life to protect people you yourself want to see dead? Non-Muslims are their enemy and should be killed. That is the main thing their Koran teaches.
@Smorgasbord:
or … it was in effect an act of the Muslim Brotherhood lead government. A competent government will assign competent guards and severely discipline those who behave as you suggest.
Have you ever heard of Joseph Columbo and the Italian-American Civil Rights League ?
@MataHarley:
I’m in full agreement with your post, Mata. Obama’s betrayal of Gaddafi in particular sent a very very bad message.
Just before the outbreak of WWII Pope Pius XII contacted British intelligence, MI6, and tried to facilitate an anti-Nazi coup by certain German generals. If the coup had taken place and had been successful the Brits would be confronted with a militaristic well armed anti-Communist Germany at least initially governed by a professional military dictatorship. The generals leading the coup would have been relative moderates, perhaps to the center of Spanish General Franco. Without the coup we would get what we got. The Brits failed to act on Pope Pius’s initiative and history took its course.
Would the world have been far better off with a militaristic well armed anti-Communist Germany at least initially governed by a professional military dictatorship, perhaps in time liberalizing into a democracy? I think so.
Mike O’Malley
I have read yesterday that the POPE is going to the MIDDLE EAST,
AS he must be there as we speak,
he want to also meet the violent factions HEZBOLA AND TALK TO THEM,
AND MEET ALL THE PALESTINIANS, WHO KNOW WHO ELSE HE HAS IN MIND.
BYE
@Mike O’Malley: ##141
If I have, it has been so long ago that I can’t remember anything about him or them. I was lousy in history, and I can’t remember names or dates very well. Even if I meet a nice looking woman and hear her name, a short time later I can’t remember it.
@Smorgasbord:
Joseph Colombo was head of the Italian-American Civil Rights League
Joseph Colombo was head of a major New York Mafia crime family.
Per Wikipdeia
On June 28, 1971, Colombo was shot and seriously wounded at the second Italian Unity Day rally. As Colombo was approaching the podium to address the crowd, Jerome Johnson, an African American street hustler, approached Colombo. Wearing press credentials from the league and disguised as a photojournalist, Johnson fired three shots from an automatic pistol into Colombo’s head and neck. Colombo’s son and several others wrestled Johnson to the ground. At that point, a second man stepped out of the crowd and shot Johnson dead. The second assailant then escaped without being identified. The crowd quickly dispersed, although some made a feeble attempt to continue the festival.
They way the incident was explain to me was this was a Mafia contract hit on Joseph Colombo by rival Mafioso Joseph Gallo. Jerome Johnson, an African American street hustler, was a set up by at least two Mafioso working perhaps for Gallo. One of those men was the second assailant who escaped without being identified. The other was a man within Joseph Colombo’s security detail “who stepped aside at the pre-planned moment enabling Jerome Johnson to strike his target. Jerome Johnson could not have shot Colombo unless someone in the security detail opened a breach at just the right moment. At least that’s how one former Fed’s I knew back then explained it to me. That Fed? He had worked as a special agent for the IRS dealing with the Italian Mafia in the New York – New Jersey area.
The point of this example being this breach of embassy security could not have happened in Egypt if it wasn’t in some fashion an inside job by the Muslim Brotherhood controlled government.
@Smorgasbord:
This is similar to find Usama bin Laden living for years within almost a stones throw from throw from the Pakistani equivalent of West Point Military Academy. Some very powerful figure, some unchallengeable figure, in the government permitted this to happen. Otherwise some very powerful figure, some unchallengeable figure, in the government caused this to happen