Battle Over Western Lands is Far Bigger Than the Bundy Controversy

Rory Reid has been making the argument on local news (What’s Your Point) political program that: Since the Federal Government first owned the Louisiana Purchase and those lands acquired following the Spanish American War, They still belong to the Federal Government. This argument ignores that He has also been arguing that the Nevada Constitution declares that the State of Nevada is wholly subservient to the Federal Government.

Videos of Democratic Weasel Rory Reid spinning the facts to demonize Bundy and those who came out to support Bundy.

Rory Reid advises that if an armed Federal Agent approaches you, you should do what he says.

Tarkanian lists Nevada Republicans who go to the area to look into the case, Reid discounts this as them showing up for the cameras, and claims that the Republicans were escalating the issue by being there.

Rory comes out in support of the BLM “Free Speech Zones” and disparages opposition to the BLM’s heavy handed actions.

Here is Where Reid “Claims” that the Nevada Constitution declares the Federal Governemnt “Owns the land” (The Nevada Constitutions says nothing declaring that the land in question belong to the Feds,) Reid also tries to claim that because the citizens paramount allegiance clause means that Nevada’s citizens must kowtow to the federal government will. Reid then goes on to make his claim that the Federal Government owns the land because of the Guadalupe Hildago handed it over in 1848,

The Nevada Constitution:

Third. That the people inhabiting said territory do agree and declare, that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within said territory, and that the same shall be and remain at the sole and entire disposition of the United States; and that lands belonging to citizens of the United States, residing without the said state,

The problem with Rory’s lawyer twistings of this statement, is that he is improperly including appropriated public lands (i.e. State of Nevada’s and Clark County’s lands ) as being of the same juristriction as unappropriated lands that the United States has “sole and entire disposition” to. He does this to make it appear that the Federal Government has all the power to make decisions on the management of ALL public lands, including those that are owned by the state and County. The Bundy grazing issue has nothing to do with unappropriated US Government public lands.

Reid ridiculously tries to claim that Bundy is the “hero” and face of Republicans in this matter.

Harry Reid and Dean Heller debate the Bundy – BLM case.

(Sadly the Moderator of the program favors the Left heavily in how he presents the discussions and questions the panelist, quoting heavily from the leftist political pages.)

The problem with Rory’s arguments is that the Nevada Constitution in it’s preamble states:

The Act of Congress Approved March Twenty First A.D. Eighteen Hundred and Sixty Four “To enable the People of the Territory of Nevada to form a Constitution and State Government and for the admission of such State into the Union on an equal footing with the Original States,” requires that the Members of the Convention for framing said Constitution shall, after Organization, on behalf of the people of said Territory, adopt the Constitution of the United States.—Therefore, Be it Resolved,

How can the Western States be treated with unequal standing in regards to public lands by the BLM when they are supposed to have an equal footing with the “Original States”?

@Smorgasbord: “(5) More guns and ammo sales. ”

Which will result in the federal government buying more ammunition with taxpayer dollars, making ammunition more expensive for the taxpaying citizen and less available.

@Greg: So, where does the Constitution mention a Buereau of Land Management deciding how much land to absorb in states and then charging citizens to use the land that is of no use to anyone else (but for Harry and Rory, of course)?

I don’t recall the left remembering this clause as the OWS gangs destroyed parks, burned buildings, fought with police and shit on police cars. It all seems pretty selective and, in this particular case, greed-driven.

GREG
THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES ARE
CLIVEN BUNDY FAMILY,including their help in managing the land and protecting the BIG TURTLES,
from and against the illegals wanting to set housing in that land
they are doing a DAMN better jobs than any CHINEESE COMING TO INSTALL THOSE TOWERS,
KILLERS OF LAND AND ANY LIVINBEING IN IT, AS THE BLM DID IN ONE WEEK RAMPAGE INTO A DESTRUCTION OF THE TOURTOISE BURROW, AND PRIZE BULLS AND COWS BELONING TO THE RANCHER AND HIS FAMILY,
THE FEDERALS HAD MANY MORE EXTORTIONS DONE TO RANCHERS WHO WHERE NOT EQUIPT WITH THE POWER TO FIGHT THEM, AND THEY LEFT THEIR BUSINESS UNABLE TO WIN THEIR CAUSE,
THAT’S WHAT THE GOVERNMENT IS DOING TO THE GOOD RANCHERS, EXTORTING THEM VICIOUSLY,
AND INHABITANTS, like the horses who where killed BY THEM, before just for living there,
THE CHINEESE WANT LAND DESPERATLY BECAUSE THEY ARE OUT OF IT, THE MUSLIMS WANT LAND DESPERATLY BECAUSE THEY ARE OUT OF IT, AND BOTH ARE OVER POPULATED,
WHEN THEY MOVE IN
THEY BRING A LOT OF THEM AND BUILD THEIR COMMUNITY ALL FOR THEMSELVES, IN A VERY SHORT TIME, NOT COUNTING THE MULTIPLE ILLEGALS FROM HATER’S COUNTRIES, SEEPING HERE,
HIDDING IN TUNNELS, UNTIL THEY CAN JOIN OTHER, WITHOUT BEING NOTICED,
AND THEY CHOOSE THE BEST LANDS OF THIS AMERICA , FROM THE NORTH TO THE SOUTH,
TO EAST TO WEST,
AND DEFEND THEIR LAND AGAINST THE OTHER CITIZENS DESPERATLY ALSO,
ONE STREET GATHERING SHOWED US ON CAMERA, A FOREIGNER LAUNCH AT A CITIZEN ACROSS THE STREET,
RUNNING AT HIM A MARINE WHO NEVER SAW HIM COME,
HE THE FOREIGNER SLASH HIS FACE FROM ONE EAR TO THE OTHER WITH A BROKEN BOTLE, AND RAN AWAY BEFORE ANY REACT TO IT, THAT’S WHAT IS GOING ON, NO STREETS IS SAFE ANYMORE, THE SMALL CRIMINALS ARE IN THE OPEN,

@Bill: #3

Which will result in the federal government buying more ammunition with taxpayer dollars, making ammunition more expensive for the taxpaying citizen and less available.

Glenn Beck is keeping a list of gun manufacturers and retailers who refuse to sell guns to any government entity that restricts the right to own guns. I would like to see ammo companies on the list.
http://www.glennbeck.com/2013/02/21/who-are-gun-manufacturers-refusing-to-do-business-with/

@Greg:

The Bureau of Land Management isn’t absorbing anything. The land in question was federal to begin with. It belongs collectively to the people of the United States. It is Bundy who is trespassing on it, in defiance of federal law and multiple court decisions. He has made use of it without paying applicable fees.

Well, that’s the directive that the Collective has assigned to its drones for parroting, but here’s the actual history from Utah retired law enforcement officer and educator Laron Fred Woods;

When Nevada became a state in 1864, the state had control of its land because of its sovereignty. The federal government started taking control back in the 1930′s. Until then, the General Land Office managed public lands. Even though the GLO was a national agency, it was administered locally. After the Taylor Grazing act of 1934, passed under Franklin D. Roosevelt, a “U.S. Grazing Service” office was created. The “U.S. Grazing Service” office was merged with the General Land Office in 1946 (under Harry S. Truman) and the BLM (Bureau Of Land Management) was created. They then assumed control of all “public” lands and took over management from the state. Cliven Bundy’s Grandfather purchased grazing rights from the General Land Office in the 1880′s. Note: He PURCHASED those rights. Not the land, just the grazing rights.

So you can definitely see a significant difference between what the Collective preaches, and what people who actually know what they’re talking about have to say. Note how the Collective’s broad proclamations are devoid of specifics and details, as opposed to Mr. Wood’s specific and detailed recollection of history, which is corroborated by the information presented in the BLM’s own website.

Keep in mind, that all of this is under the pretext of protecting a desert tortoise.

And the flakes from PETA have finally responded.

By the way, the Nevada State Constitution also addresses the issue of the state’s militia. The armed rabble that showed up to confront and defy federal and state law and authority aren’t it.

Note how the drone composes these sentences as though they have meaning, when in fact they have none.

If a conflict occurs, perhaps Greg will be willing to stand in the Nevada desert and lecture the armed rabble about the nuanced Newspeak definition of militia as the bullets fly by his empty head.

@Kraken, #11:

When Nevada became a state in 1864, the state had control of its land because of its sovereignty.

Laron Fred Woods is full of beans. The territory including Nevada had been under the authority of the federal government since 1848, when it was ceded by Mexico to the United States by the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. Why does he believe land that was not the property of any private owner at the time statehood was granted automatically became property of the newly formed state? The difference between later states and the eastern states that originally joined to form the Union is that those original state entities predated the federal government. In those cases the chain of ownership begins with the state governments.

Maybe Bundy should form a mutual defense treaty alliance with the Republic of Molossia.

THEY are preparing to lodge the 20 MILLIONS ILLEGALS,
BY TAKING THE SPACE USED BY THE ROOTED AMERICANS,
HE BEGAN BY PAYING THE ABORTIONIST OF AMERICAN BABIES,
TO MINIMIZE THE FUTUR AMERICANS, NOW HE’S ON TAKING THE SPACE OF THE AMERICANS,
WHAT A MESS HOW TO GET OUT OF IT?

Laron Fred Woods is full of beans.

Beans are a staple of the cowboy diet.

Why does he believe land that was not the property of any private owner at the time statehood was granted automatically became property of the newly formed state? The difference between later states and the eastern states that originally joined to form the Union is that those original state entities predated the federal government. In those cases the chain of ownership begins with the state governments.

Because of the Supreme Court decision in the case of Pollard’s Lessee v. Hagan, 44 U.S. 212 (1845). Where it states:

The United States never held any municipal sovereignty, jurisdiction, or right of soil in and to the territory of which Alabama, or any of the new States, were formed, except for temporary purposes, and to execute the trusts created by the acts of the Virginia and Georgia legislatures, and the deeds of cession executed by them to the United States, and the trust created by the treaty of the 30th April, 1803, with the French Republic ceding Louisiana.

So the Federal Government is required to relinquish all claims of land ownership once a territory becomes a state.

What’s also interesting to note here, is that when we consult the historical record, we find the following quote written in 1881:

“The cattle scatter over immense tracts of country being left pretty much to their own keeping, and straying ten, twenty, or even fifty miles from home.”

So clearly this has been common practice for some time.

This is why it’s so important not to build your knowledge base with consensus WikiPedia essays written by teenage activists.

Maybe Bundy should form a mutual defense treaty alliance with the Republic of Molossia.

It’s important to understand that micronations like the Republic of Molossia are mostly intended as parodies. As opposed to say, the “socialist paradise” of Jonestown, which apparently was supposed to be a real thing. Maybe he could sign a treaty with them. Oh, wait…

Kraken
I’m looking at the old movie ,which happen to be; THE RED RIVER,
JOHN WAYNE, getting ready to leave TEXAS RED RIVER,
to go with 10 thousands heads to MISSOURI BY HORSE BACK,
with 100 MEN , THE INDIANS WHERE NOT FRIENDLY THAN,
WHAT A MOVIE, AND RIGHT ON THE NEWS OF TODAY,

OH BOY A STAMPEDE OF 10 THOUSANDS COWS,
IT MUST BE SEEN,
THEY DON’T MAKE MOVIES LIKE THAT ANYMORE,
BYE

The BLM claims Civen Bundy owes them a million in grazing fees, Bundy claims that he owes $300,000 but only to the County and State of Nevada who owns the land. Although asked, the BLM has not given an itemized accounting to the press or the fees it claims Bundy owes. But, how much does Cliven Bundy really owe, and to whom?

U.S. Raelian Movement says Cliven Bundy owes grazing fees to Native Americans, not the federal government

(D)does the federal government really own the land it’s assessing grazing fees for?

Not according to the U.S. Raelian Movement.

“The Moapas, a band of the Paiute Indians, still have a map showing that the land comprising the Bundy ranch was promised to them by federal treaty,” explained Las Vegas resident Thomas Kaenzig, who is a Raelian Guide and spokesperson for the U.S. Raelian Movement. “That means the land really belongs to them. If Bundy should be paying grazing rights fees to anyone at all, it’s to these Native American descendants of the original owners. They were there first!”

According to Kaenzig, the government’s claim to lands that once belonged to indigenous tribes is illegal.

“The U.S. federal government repeatedly violated its own constitution by seizing large amounts of territory that belonged to Native Americans by treaty,” he said. “That includes much of the 80 percent of Nevada that is today referred to as public land, since it was illegally appropriated. The particular area used by Cliven Bundy for cattlegrazing, along with the surrounding region, was taken from the Moapas. It’s outrageous that the U.S. government claims that land when the Moapas clearly had a treaty designating otherwise.”

In the case of the United States v. Bundy One US District Court Judge (Lloyd D. George, United States District Court, D. Nevada) by fiat essentially rules that the Federal government owns all lands ceded by Mexico the the United States, while ignoring laws passed by Congress and various Presidents, whereby the Federal government transferred ownership and all rights to specific portions of the Western States in their creation , retaining ownership of specifically bordered lands, (which do not include the grazing lands in question). As the State of Nevada had was not a party to the US v. Bundy case, they could not protest the Judge’s arbitrary fiat ruling that in one (absurd) fell swoop declares that the Western States no longer own the lands that were transferred to them by the US government because he says so. It is patently ridiculous to think that one US Lower District judge, on his own opinion, has the all encompassing power to throw out US law passed by Congress and signed by various President’s (including Lincoln) and steal away ALL Western State owned lands (including those outside of the Judge’s district,) and hand them to the BLM in order to punish one ornery rancher.

WHO IS THAT LOYED GEORGE JUDGE ANY WAY,
WHERE DOES HE COME FROM, WHO DOES HE FOLLOW,
AND WHAT KIND OF LAW IS HE TRYING TO SCREW, SO TO GIVE THE BENEFIT TO THE FEDS,
IT LOOK LIKE THE NATIVE INDIANS HAVE BEEN VERY KIND TO ALLOW PEOPLE ON THEIR LAND,
WE NOW BEGIN TO UNCOVER THE GOVERNMENT SCAM

why should it stop,
why them, when the leader is still getting more weapon,
it’s for the people to defend themselves, who else would do it,
this is not UKRAINE, SURE, EXCEPT FOR THAT WEEK IT WAS,
THEY CAME AS A MOB TO TAKE HIS CATTLE, THEY IN ONE WEEK DID KILL TWO PRIZE BULLS,
AND DEMOLISH SOME OF THE ENCLOSURE, DEMOLISH THE BURROUGH OF THE TOURTOISES
AND TERRORIZE THE CITIZENS, WITH THEIR POWERFULL WEAPON, AND TRAIN DOGS,AND
TAISER, AND THEY HURT SOME CITIZENS, THEY CAUSE THE BABY COW TO BE SEPARATED
AT A CRITICAL TIME FOR THEIR NEED, AND KILL OTHER COWS MILKING THEIR BABY,
THEY CAUSE A STRESS TO THOSE CATTLE ALSO BY TAKING THEM PRISONER NOT FEEDING THEM,
AND THEY OUT RUN THE YOUNG TO EXAUSTION, THIS ALL IS CRIMINAL ACTION ON ABUSE TO ANIMAL AND ABUSE TO THE FAMILY OF A PEACEFULL MAN, THE BLM IS GUILTY AS HELL,
THEY CANNOT DENY IT, THIS YOU DON’T SEE IN THIS AMERICA, NOT SUPPOSE TO SEE,
YOU HAVE SEEN IT, AND IF IT’S LEFT NOT PUNISH, IT WILL CET WORSE OF ABUSE,
THE SHERIF SHOULD BE THINKING OF WHAT THEY WENT THROUGH OF STRESS, AND STILL NOT
OVER IT, THE SHERIF SHOULD PUT HIMSELF IN THEIR FEET TO UNDERSTAND HOW BIG THIS WAS, AND THANK GOD FOR THE MILICIA, AND THEY WILL STILL BE NEEDED MORE AND MORE, AND THE EPA HAS SOME OTHER TRICK TO USE
WITH REGULATING THE WATERWAY, SO IT’S NOT FINISH,
THE PREVIOUS RANCHER WHO SAW HIS FATHER DIED AND HIS MOTHER AFTER HAVING BEEN TARGETTED, THEY GOT SICK AND LOST A LIFE PREMATURELY, BECAUSE OF HAVING BEEN
HARASS, AND INTIMIDATED, THE SON IS STILL TRAUMATIZE AND LET GO HIS RANCH FOR ALL THE TROUBLE HE LIVED WITH YEARS OF IT, THEY HAVE CREATED A CLIMAX OF HATE AND
REPRESSION EMPOWERING THAT FAMILY, NO MONEY CAN PAY FOR THE DAMAGE THEY CAUSE,
what they do is telling of what stress they had, and this time they are getting ready,

Smorgassbord
all the facts where in front of them,
easy to figured out,
THEIR ACTIONS WHERE OFFENSIVES TO THE MAXIMUM,
BYE