The prophetic words of John Roberts

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New U.S. Supreme Court Poses For "Class Photo"

Today EJ Dionne wrote an article long on whining and short on logic about the conflicting decisions regarding Obamacare:

By effectively gutting the Affordable Care Act on Tuesday, two members of a three-judge panel on the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals showed how far right-leaning jurists have strayed from such impartiality. We are confronted with a conservative judiciary that will use any argument it can muster to win ideological victories that elude their side in the elected branches of our government.

Strayed from impartiality? Say what? Then Dionne jumps off the cliff:

The extreme judicial activism here is obvious when you consider, as the 4th Circuit did, that even if you accept that there is ambiguity in the law, the Supreme Court’s 30-year-old precedent in Chevron v. Natural Resources Defense Council held that in instances of uncertainty, the court defers to federal agencies rather than concocting textual clarity when it doesn’t exist.

No, sir. It is NOT activism to insist the law be respected as written. It is ACTIVISM to interpret it otherwise. The law is very clear, and this is highly likely to get to the Supreme Court.

And now let me summon the prophetic words of John Roberts.

“We do not consider whether the Act embodies sound policies. That judgment is entrusted to the Nation’s elected leaders.”

“Members of this Court are vested with the authority to interpret the law; we possess neither the expertise nor the prerogative to make policy judgments. Those decisions are entrusted to our Nation’s elected leaders, who can be thrown out of office if the people disagree with them. It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices.”

Remember those words.

They said we had to pass it to find out what was in it. I am beginning to think John Roberts plays a mean game of chess.

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@Greg: What do you imagine accounts for the ridiculously long waiting times?

Greg, the whistle blowers have outed the real culprit for these long wait times.
Paper pushers don’t push much paper in a day at the VA.
They want work to stop at 3PM.
They pretend to look for lost files then call the doctor and say they can’t find them.
Doctors are written up for doing the work of these unionized paper pushers for them.
Doctors say that in their own fields- but in private practice – they would see over a week’s worth of patients while the VA makes patients wait.
Heck.
This week a vet was locked inside a VA pharmacy when he was waiting 3 hours for his prescription to be filled.
The unionized workers looked at the clock, saw it was time to go home, locked up and left out the back, leaving him alone in the dark.

@Greg:

What do you imagine accounts for the ridiculously long waiting times?

For one, inefficient, over-paid, bonus seeking bureaucrats who should be jailed, not working in the VA.

Do you think a decade of war doesn’t change the arithmetic?

I think what changes the arithmetic is when veterans receive sub-standard care the first go round, requiring additional [it would seem] sub-standard care. The VA proves one thing; government never does any thing efficiently. Never. Want another example? Ever had to drive daily on an interstate that is being repaired? How many people do you see working? Oh, you will see lots of idle machinery, but few workers. Government inefficiency. Plain and simple.

And no amount of crowing about Obamacare on your part can eliminate that there are certain things the federal government should never be involved in, and our health care, and insurance for such, is one of those things.

@Greg: Do you really think that a 20 year old vet that has been injured costs more per year to care for than an 85 year old wounded vet from ww2? I’d say the older ones cost more to care for, but I’d also say that the older ones are dying off at a much faster rate (as seen in the declining number 05 mentioned above. So tell us again why the annual cost is going up more than the rate of inflation when the total number being cared for is going DOWN?

According to the Congressional Research Service, the total number of veterans decreased by 17 percent from 2001 to 2014.

According to the same report, the total number of veterans using VA health care services increased by 78 percent over the same time period.

Those are the simple facts. Refer to pages 2 and 3 of this document for the numbers.

Does anyone imagine that the cost for any given medical service, medication, or medical procedure has declined over those same years?

Health care costs rose rapidly during most of those years.

Here’s an interesting fact: Last year, the cost of providing employer-sponsored health care benefits rose at the slowest annual rate in 15 years. Possibly one of the dire effects of the Affordable Care Act? The prediction was that Obamacare would cause insurance costs to skyrocket. That’s apparently not happening. Here’s the reference.

Last year, the cost of providing employer-sponsored health care benefits rose at the slowest annual rate in 15 years.

That’s because employers are reducing health care benefits. And many employers are doing so by reducing the hours their employees work (so as to duck under Obama (doesn’t) Care employer mandates. This, without question, is just one of the dire effects of the Affordable Care Act.

You’re just too dishonest to mention these facts.

Greg posts a lot when he has nothing to say.

Playing the same tune: Bush, Congress, and all the failures of Obama (VA, Obamacare, etc.) are actually the fault of the Republicans.

A perfect case study in how the current WH was allowed to happen, listening to Greg’s “points”.

@Greg:

You are once again completely off the mark in claiming that obamacare is bringing rates down.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/11/04/49-state-analysis-obamacare-to-increase-individual-market-premiums-by-avg-of-41-subsidies-flow-to-elderly/

Today, the Manhattan Institute released the most comprehensive analysis yet conducted of premiums under Obamacare for people who shop for coverage on their own. Here’s what we learned. In the average state, Obamacare will increase underlying premiums by 41 percent. As we have long expected, the steepest hikes will be imposed on the healthy, the young, and the male.

And as the left continues to spew the lie that “the rate increases are due to insurance company greed making record profits” – http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/06/27/profits-in-health-insurance-under-obamacare/

This year’s Fortune 500 (covering 2013) shows that health insurers as a group continue to post rather mediocre profit results for the sixth straight year in a row. Indeed, when return on revenue is used as the measure of profits, the biggest firms among health insurers/managed care companies (e.g., UnitedHealth Group UNH, Wellpoint WLP) used to reliably outperform those in the retail pharmacy and other services industry (e.g., ExpressScripts ESRX, Quest Diagnostics DGX). But under the Obama administration, they have reversed positions.

Even the government is posting reports (from the House, not the Reid controlled Senate) on the pending sticker shock from obamacare.

http://energycommerce.house.gov/rate-shock

And the gobsmackingly stupid classification of “affordable care” under this nightmare completely ignores the glaring need for so many taxpayer-provided subsidies to pay the insurance premium…and the complete avoidance of acknowledgement of the even larger deductibles which have to be paid by the policy holder first before obamacare actually kicks in.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/01/us-summit-rates-idUSBREA301UR20140401

The average monthly insurance premium in 2014 for an individual is $328 nationwide, according to government data. But the figures varied widely by state, and within states. More than 80 percent of people signing up for Obamacare this year were also eligible for government subsidies, in the form of tax credits and cost-sharing assistance, to offset their monthly costs.

80% of obamacare signups (who knows how many were fraudulent) required TAXPAYERS to pay for their premiums. This isn’t a right-wing report, either…this is coming from Reuters. I challenge any leftist to explain how something can possibly be considered ‘affordable’ if 80% of people have to have taxpayers pay for the bloody premium – and furthermore how someone who needs taxpayer support for a monthly premium can ever possibly pay the annual deductible required BEFORE a single dollar of taxpayer provided coverage kicks in. From the same article by Reuters:

At the same time, several million Americans who were already insured under the individual market faced the cancellation of their policies this year, creating a political firestorm for Obama, who had promised that consumers who liked their existing plans could keep them.

Many of them found the new Obamacare health plans, which require insurers to cover more benefits, were more expensive than their old policies. The administration has allowed insurers to extend those policies for up to three years

So I expect Reid to come out any day now and accuse Reuters of being racist for reporting this.

Just how bad are these rate increases under obamacare going to be?

http://dailycaller.com/2014/04/07/survey-u-s-sees-sharpest-health-insurance-premium-increases-in-years/

Americans have recently been hit with some of the largest premium increases in years, according to a Morgan Stanley survey of insurance brokers.

The investment bank’s April survey of 148 brokers found that this quarter, the average premium increase for customers renewing an insurance plan is 12 percent in the small group market and 11 percent in the individual market, according to Forbes’ Scott Gottlieb.

The hikes — the largest in the past three years, according to Morgan Stanley’s quarterly reports — are “largely due to changes under the [Affordable Care Act],” analysts concluded. Rates have been growing increasingly fast throughout all of 2013, after a period of drops in 2012.

While insurers were hiking premiums since 2012 by smaller amounts, the lead-up to the Obamacare’s launch has seen the average rate at which premiums are growing fourfold.

http://nypost.com/2014/07/03/insurers-seeking-double-digit-increase-in-obamacare-premiums-in-ny/

Insurance firms participating in New York’s ObamaCare health exchange are seeking double-digit hikes for patient medical premiums in 2015, new figures reviewed by The Post reveal.

The average hike sought by insurers for individual plans is 12 percent—but a number of firms serving large numbers of patients want to boost individual premiums by nearly 20 percent.

Leading the charge is Excellus Health Plan, which is seeking to sock more than 24,000 customers with a 19.7 percent hike.

The even larger MVP Health Plan, with nearly 33,000 customers, is seeking a 19 percent boost.

While a number of smaller plans put in for lesser increases or, in a number of cases, decreases, Health Republic Insurance of New York — the largest on the exchange with more than 68,000 members — requested a 15.2 percent increase for individual plans.

So, Greg, you are as usual, completely full of nothing but gasbag leftist propaganda. Obamacare is doing NOTHING to decrease premiums, NOTHING to improve access to care, is definitely NOT decreasing the cost of medical care, nor saving the average family of four $2500 per year on health insurance costs.
And despite the “average 12% increase” in premiums under obamacare, there are some states which are showing astronomical rate increases that are absolutely the fault of socialist stupidity:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/14/survey-shows-obamacare-sending-premiums-rising-at-fastest-clip-in-decades/

A recent survey of 148 insurance brokers shows that ObamaCare is sending premiums rising at the fastest clip in decades.

“For the last, about, five years they’ve been doing this survey, so this was the largest percentage increase in any quarter since they’ve been doing (it),” said Scott Gottlieb of the American Enterprise Institute.

“But at 12 percent, 11 percent increase on average across all the states — that puts it at the upper end of any increase we’ve seen for decades.”

That is the national average in a survey done by Morgan Stanley. But in some states, it found rates are soaring.

“There are specific states with exorbitant increases,” Gottlieb said. “Delaware had 100 percent increase, Florida had a 37 percent increase, Pennsylvania 28 percent increase, California had a 53 percent increase in their premiums.”

Rates vary widely, often depending on the state and how highly regulated it was to begin with. Analysts, however, say the main reasons for the higher costs are not medical inflation, but rather the requirements of ObamaCare itself.

“There are certain regulations and certain requirements that had to be in there. And because of that it’s driven up the costs of these benefits,” said John DiVito of the Flexible Benefit Service Corporation, which represents hundreds of agents.Rate hikes include ten essential health benefits along with more than 20,000 pages or regulations.

Obamacare is utterly evil, based on lies and the most naked political power grab in the history of our country. The desperation of obamacare pushers is becoming apparent in the intensity of their pathetic lies trying to keep this leftist turd afloat.

@Pete, #57:

49-State Analysis: Obamacare To Increase Individual-Market Premiums By Average Of 41%

The operative word being To. The Forbes article isn’t an observation of what has occurred. It’s just another conservative Magic 8 Ball prediction, none of which seem to be playing out in reality lately.

Further, it is focusing on Individual Market Premiums, which are probably the market segment least likely to reveal long-term trends affecting the great majority of health insurance consumers, or even that particular market segment itself. The reason is very simple: Obamacare set minimum standards for the coverage a health care policy must provide that caused insurance companies to discontinue many dirt cheap individual market products. Of course average prices rose as a result. Good products generally do cost more than substandard products. The price hike that resulted in that particular market segment was a one-time event. It’s deliberately misleading to suggest that the same jump will happen year after year, putting that market segment cost average on a permanent upward trajectory. That part of the phasing in of Obamacare took place only one time. It doesn’t happen on a recurring basis.

People frequently accuse me of being too dishonest to mention certain relevant facts. Maybe they should examine some of the manure right wing media sources are routinely pitching with a more critical eye.

The Affordable Care Act will be a positive development for the majority of American health care consumers. The longer it remains in place, the more obvious that will become.

@Pete:

Let’s take a look at what Greggie provides in the way of argument:

According to the same report, the total number of veterans using VA health care services increased by 78 percent over the same time period.

Using Greggie’s own link, the number of VA enrolled veterans was 5,124,168 in 2001, 9,111,955 in 2014. That IS an increase in enrollment number of 78.8%. But that number is really moot since not all those enrolled use the VA system, but are simply enrolled in the VA system. The number Greggie ignores ithe the number of patients actually using the VA system which was also supplied. That number increased 51.8% between ’01-’14. And while Obama has wound down the number of soldiers serving in theater, there has been an 16% increase of veterans using the VA health care system since Obama took office. That increase can be accounted for by the number of Korean and Vietnam War veterans retiring and no longer using their work related health care providers.

What Greggie also doesn’t point out is that the number of Non-Veterans using the VA health care system has increased 99% over the last 13 years. The number of total patients using the VA health care system has increased 18% since Obama took office.

Greggie wants to blame these increase on the wounded of the Middle Eastern wars. Yet, the VA actually predicted the increase in 2000, due to the advancing ages of WWII, Korean and Vietnam veterans. Guess that part of it just went over Greggie’s head.

And then we have this from Obama’s biggest sycophant:

Here’s an interesting fact: Last year, the cost of providing employer-sponsored health care benefits rose at the slowest annual rate in 15 years. Possibly one of the dire effects of the Affordable Care Act? The prediction was that Obamacare would cause insurance costs to skyrocket. That’s apparently not happening.

He can only say this by totally ignoring the report he actually linked to which said:

” Health cost increases fell to a 15-year low of 4.1% in 2013. In response to rising costs, employers continue to shift costs to employees. The survey found the employees’ share of premiums increased nearly 7%, to $2,975, this year. Out-of-pocket costs also increased. The total employee cost share has climbed from 34.4% in 2011 to 37% in 2014. Employees now pay over $100 more each month for health care compared with just three years ago.”

Greggie offered total spin. The reason that health care costs have rose at a slower rate (according to Greggie) is because the rising costs have been passed on to the employee, not the employer.

You can bet that anytime Greggie posits something, he is giving you a false impression of what is really going on. His penchant for spin is great. He will, as do most Democrats, take a short statement, make it as if it was total fact, without giving as Paul Harvey would say, the rest of the story.

Some would call that blatant dishonesty on Greggie’s part.

Let’s take a look at what Greggie provides in the way of argument:

Let’s stop pretending we’re a teacher lecturing a class.

What Greggie also doesn’t point out is that the number of Non-Veterans using the VA health care system has increased 99% over the last 13 years.

And let’s top using taunting playground nicknames. It became tedious a long time back. If you want to be deliberately rude, please try to be more adult about it.

I didn’t point it out because it isn’t particularly relevant. The non-veteran VA health care system users represented less than one-tenth of all users in 2001. The 99 percent increase between then and 2014 represents the doubling of that relatively small fraction of total users. Most of them would be the eligible surviving spouses of veterans. As most vets of earlier wars were male, their wives tend to outlive them. This accounts for the increased number of eligible non-vet survivors. Maybe you can explain why this figure is significant. It certainly doesn’t really explain anything away.

“Health cost increases fell to a 15-year low of 4.1% in 2013. In response to rising costs, employers continue to shift costs to employees.”

You seem to have missed the fact that those are two independent factual statements. What separates them is a period, not the word “because.” Health cost increase fell to a 15-year low of 4.1% in 2o13. PERIOD. What employers did in response to rising costs—the 4.1% increase—was to shift some of that increase to their employees.

What Obamacare had to do with that behavior on the part of employers is a separate question, but Obamacare isn’t driving an acceleration in insurance costs rises. The rise in the overall cost of health insurance has been slowing since Obamacare went into effect.

@Greg:

Let’s stop pretending we’re a teacher lecturing a class.

Stop talking as if we are a unit. We’re not.

And let’s top using taunting playground nicknames. It became tedious a long time back. If you want to be deliberately rude, please try to be more adult about it.

I will continue to use the nickname “Greggie” as long as you continue to show what an amazing juvenile you are, even considering the fact that you are a senior citizen. When you start posting honest information, and not radical left wing spin, I might [emphasis on “might] grant you some respect. Until then, either deal with it or leave. I promise you, you won’t be missed.

And yes, I intend to continue to be deliberately rude to you as long as you continue to be deliberately dishonest.

Uh huh. Presumably, then, you have nothing intelligent to say about the substantive points made in post #60.

@Greg:

you have nothing intelligent to say

A more apt description of you has never been given.

@Greg:

none of which seem to be playing out in reality lately.

really?

People frequently accuse me of being too dishonest to mention certain relevant facts.

such as not telling us where premiums have gone down.

State Analysis: Obamacare To Increase Individual-Market Premiums “The operative word being To” The Affordable Care Act will be a positive development for the majority of American health care consumers. “The operative word being Will”

@Greg:You said:

Presumably, then, you have nothing intelligent to say about the substantive points made in post #60.

There weren’t any.

@Redteam, #64:

such as not telling us where premiums have gone down.

I didn’t say premiums had gone done. What I said is that the overall rate of increase in insurance premiums has been slowing since Obamacare began going into effect, with the 4.1 percent increase in 2013 being the lowest single-year increase of any of the past 15 years. That’s what the numbers show.

I don’t see how that can be honestly characterized as a negative development, any more than the fact that the annual federal deficit has been falling can be characterized as a negative development. This is the direction in which most people would hope those things would both be moving. Except, perhaps, for republican politicians, for whom any good news is bad news, and can’t be allowed to go unchallenged.

@Greg:Here is a statement by CNSNEWS that quotes Barack Obama. Do you think Obama was generally correct in what he said, or did he not have a clue of history? Just your opinion

CNSNews.com carried this quote, “This is what happens at the end of wars,” President Barack Obama boasted Tuesday when he was asked about swapping American Army Sgt. Deserter for five vicious Taliban terrorists. “That was true for George Washington… That was true for Abraham Lincoln and that was true for FDR. That’s been true of every combat situation, that at some point, you make sure that you try to get your folks back… And that’s the right thing to do.”

@Redteam, #66:

This seems to be the CNS article in question.

I don’t believe it was a personal boast, nor that Obama was comparing himself with Washington, Lincoln, or FDR. He was comparing actions, pointing out that not leaving our people on the field or in the hands of an enemy at the end of a conflict has been the policy of every American president. We don’t knowingly abandon our people. Nor do we prejudge them as a rationale for doing so. If there’s something to boast about, it’s that high American standard.

What the military eventually decides about Bergdahl is a separate issue.

@Greg:

Talk about selective comprehension…..

You conveniently ignore the daily caller, nypost and fox news links from THIS year that point out the average rate increases are at 12 percent, with Delaware having 100% rate increases. You deliberately ignore in those same articles the quotes showing these increases, after the partial implementation of obamacare, are the highest annual rate increases in 15 years. You also skip o er the very relevant question of how a law that purportedly will make health insurance “affordable” has 80% of enrollees requiring taxpayer provided subsidies to pay the premiums, but does NOTHING to pay the annual deductibles, which under obamacare are significantly higher than prior to this socialist power grab. You keep talking about a rate increase of only 4.1% in 2013 while ignoring the fact that obamacare was not officially online until 1 Jan 2014, and the rate increases the insurance companies are talking about for 2015 (the average of 12% across the nation) are directly attributed to obamacare implementation.

You keep insisting that obamacare is going to provide good results once enacted. If so, why did Obama delay the implementation of the employer mandate until after tbe November elections?

This legislative turd, no matter how much you try to polish it, has always been and will forever remain, a fetid, mushy pile of excrement.

@Pete, #68:

You conveniently ignore the daily caller, nypost and fox news links from THIS year that point out the average rate increases are at 12 percent, with Delaware having 100% rate increases. You deliberately ignore in those same articles the quotes showing these increases, after the partial implementation of obamacare, are the highest annual rate increases in 15 years.

There’s little wrong with my comprehension. I tend to ignore articles that deliberately distort the truth by narrowly focusing on particulars that don’t accurately represent the overall cost trend. All three sources are doing exactly that.

The Daily Caller article survey pertains only to the small group and individual market, which represents a small segment of insurance consumers and is seriously skewed because of the elimination of many cheap plans that offered substandard coverage. The New York Post article also focuses on the individual market, in this case for one particular state; the Fox News article doesn’t even bother to reveal that fact that they’re focusing on the same narrow segment in their text presentation. A reader will only realize that significant fact if he or she can speed-read the blue text on the Morgan Stanley graphic that appears briefly at the 0:35 second mark of the accompanying video. They’re talking about the same narrow market segment, and their story would lead audiences to an entirely different conclusion if they clearly pointed that out.

I generally consider all three sources little more than propaganda outlets because of the deliberately misleading stories such as these that they run on a regular basis. They’re carefully leading their audiences to draw incorrect conclusions in order to further agendas that aren’t actually in the public’s best interests. Overall, health insurance costs ARE NOT rising rapidly. The overall rate of increase for 2012 was 4.1 percent, which is the lowest single year increase during the past 15 years. That’s the overall trend.

@Greg:

I generally consider all three sources little more than propaganda outlets because of the deliberately misleading stories such as these that they run on a regular basis.

So tell us, Greggie, what media sources do you consider reliable? I’m interested in knowing what a little weasel like you uses for reliable sources.

@Greg:

The overall rate of increase for 2013 was 4.1 percent, which is the lowest single year increase during the past 15 years.

Funny, CNN reported that the 4.1% increase, the smallest in 15 years, was in 2012, not 2013.

“The cost of providing health care benefits to employees rose by just 4.1% this year, the smallest increase in 15 years, according to a survey by human resources consultant Mercer.”

http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/14/pf/health-insurance-premiums/index.html

@Greg:

The problem with your dishonest defense is readily apparent in your glaring failure to recognize that given Obama’s unilateral (and arguably illegal) delay of the employer mandate, the average 12% increase of the individual and small business insurance rates are for the only insurance plans relevant because they are the ones being affected by obamacare since it was partially enacted on 1 Jan 2014. You also, yet again, dodge the very relevant point that the 4.1% increase – which you so proudly proclaim as proof of a good result from obamacare, was an average rate increase from PRIOR to obamacare going active on 1 Jan 2014. Your attempt to discredit facts that are inconvenient to your position is quite lame. Your statement that you consider the NY Post, the Daily Caller and Fox News – all reporting on the Manhatten Institute data – as propaganda units bent on misleading the public is absolutely dripping with the lack of self-awareness.

And for the umpteenth time you ignore the very poignant issue of how you can consider something “affordable” that requires 80% of enrollees to have their premiums paid for by taxpayer subsidy, and leaves the enrollee with annual deductibles that are significantly higher than prior to obamacare coming partially online. If 80% of obamacare policy holders need taxpayers to pay their premiums, where do they get the money for the higher deductibles?

Finally – yet once again you ignore the simple question asking why, if obamacare is going to be so cost beneficial, did Obama unilaterally delay the employer mandate until after the coming midterm elections? Moreover, why are high ranking dems like Joe Gibbs commenting that the employer mandate is likely never going to come online?

So let us review….

You can’t keep your doctor or your insurance plan if you like them – PERIOD.
Obamacare does not decrease the cost of the average policy for a family of 4 by $2500 a year
Obamacare does not decrease medical costs.
Obamacare IS a tax, despite Obama stating repeatedly before it was passed that it was not a tax.
Gruber has been caught on video and audio stating that obamacare subsidies were only going to states that set up their own state-run exchanges, but is now claiming he made a “speak-o”.

With all of these lies told repeatedly by obamacare pushers, upon what basis should anything stated by any obamacare pusher ever be believed?

People should believe what their own personal experience is telling them, not what FOX or the Daily Caller or MSNBC is telling them. I’ve seen no drastic changes in my Blue Cross coverage, nor have my premiums gone up to any greater extent than they have been in recent years. My hikes during the past couple of years have been lower than in the past. I don’t personally know anyone who’s telling a different story about their own insurance. I do know a couple of people who couldn’t get affordable insurance before that now have it. I have the same doctors I’ve had all along. Their office visit rates have gone up some, but that’s been happening all along also.

@Greg: I think he was showing his total ignorance of the situation.

“That was true for George Washington, that was true for Abraham Lincoln, that was true for FDR. in the hands of an enemy at the end of a conflict

George Washington was not president when the Revolusionary War ended. FDR was not president when WW2 ended, Abraham Lincoln was not president when the Civil War ended. So neither of them ever ‘swapped’ any prisoners.

Yep, that’s all true, although I think Washington actually did have authority to conduct prisoner exchanges as Commander in Chief of the Continental Army. Lincoln actually suspended prisoner exchanges at one point. I think Obama was making the point that there’s precedent for such an exchange and that we don’t leave our people behind. It made the point, but it would make for a garbled history lesson.

@Greg:

Typical leftist dodge. Why am I not surprised?

So all the people who have the personal experience of having their insurance dropped, having their rates increased, and losing their doctors are to be ignored because your Blue Cross plan – presumably provided by your employer and thus not yet affected by obamacare since the employer mandate was unilaterally delayed by Obama – right?

P. T. Barnum would be so proud….

@Greg: Well, we lost our plan and were offered two new ones: get the same coverage for $2000 more a year, or pay the same as we were for bare bones coverage (no sick visits, no drug co-pays, etc).

Blue Cross through a large national healthcare employer.

Our quality of life went down so that others could go up, but we didn’t choose it: the government chose it for us.

I don’t personally know anyone who’s telling a different story about their own insurance.

Now you do, chucklehead. And we’re not the only ones.

And I’m sure you have some BS way of rationalizing this, such as “rates were going to go up anyway” and all that.

Bottom line: Obamacare reduced our healthcare coverage and I pay more out of pocket and have less options. Why? To get Dem votes from the poor.

@Greg:

I think Obama was making the point that there’s precedent for such an exchange and that we don’t leave our people behind. It made the point,

The point being that Obama is ignorant of History. I agree. No need to point out to you either that the war on terror is not over yet.

@Pete, #76:

As I said, I have no personal experience with anyone who has had such problems, and Congressional Research Service numbers show that this is not happening on a wide scale. If it were, we wouldn’t be seeing the annual percentage of overall premium increases falling to 15-year low. I don’t trust any of the reports you’ve provided suggesting the opposite because I can easily identify their deceptive nature, as explained in post #69. Any reasonable person can examine the articles and accompanying video and see that the numbers only refer to a narrow market segment, while they’re implied to represent overall rate increases. Anecdotal evidence doesn’t prove anything either, when it comes to the overall picture. It’s also commonly used to create a incorrect impression.

I get tired of constant accusations that the left is lying when the exact opposite is often the case. I generally don’t believe something simply because somebody tells me to believe it. I believe it when there’s credible evidence that supports it. I know right-leaning media are distorting key facts regarding the ACA because I’ve regularly observed them doing it. I’ve also seen them attempting to conflate intentional deception with generalizations made about the ACA by Obama while promoting it. The two aren’t same thing at all. Most intelligent adults grasp that there’s a difference between the broad, positive language of a sales pitch and the deliberate misrepresentation of specific hard facts.

Remember – It’s not about “Affordable”. It’s not about “Healthcare”. It’s all about “Control”.

@Greg:

Your deceptive dismissiveness of facts is beyond reprehensible.

Calling the blatant lies Obama made a.”sales pitch” which “intelligent adults” should know were not meant to be true says volumes about your motivations and beliefs. Dodging – yet again – the obvious fact that the rate increases averaging a 12% increase in 2015 for the only plans actually affected by obamacare (since employer provided plans being unaffected due to Obama’s unilateral delay of the employer mandate until .after the elections) may work with low information voters, but not with people actually dealing with health care every day. And you continue to ignore the 4.1% rate increase lauded as being the lowest in years came BEFORE obamacare ever came online on January 1 this year.

It is amazing that you are so distrustful of reports showing these post-obamacare increases, snidely suggesting that such reports are lies, while you contort, dodge and twist over the multiple democrat lies of being able to keep your doctor and plan if you like them; the lie that the average cost of insurance for a family of 4 would go down $2500 a year; the lie that obamacare was not a tax; and the lie that it was never the intent of the law that only states which set up their own exchanges would get federal subsidies. If a business used the same manner of deception in selling their products, they would be going bankrupt or going to jail. But you seem just fine with a leftist government engaging in such outrageous deception.

And I will ask you again for the 4th or 5th time: how can something ever be considered “affordable” if 80% of enrollees require taxpayer subsidies to pay the premium? Furthermore, if these enrollees require taxpayer subsidies for the premiums, how can they afford the $5000 plus per year deductibles that must be paid by the enrollee before insurance kicks in?

The subsidies are what have made it affordable for many people. Out-of-pocket deductibles provide an incentive for consumers to hold prices down both by being attentive to their health issues and by using services more wisely, while simultaneously protecting them from the catastrophic costs of major illness. If someone incurs $25,000 in covered cost because of a serious illness, they’re protected from what might be a total financial disaster. They could still have $5,000 to deal with, depending on what insurance choices they availed themselves of. Many more people can afford insurance now, but an element of “you get what you pay for” still remains.

…snidely suggesting that such reports are lies…

I’m suggesting nothing. I’m stating that to be a fact, and in the case of the cited articles I have explained specifically why I have concluded that. They’re deliberately misrepresenting the meaning of the information they’re presenting, causing people to draw an incorrect conclusion.

@Greg:

I am aware that you don’t give credence to any source that leans right [although you refuse to state what sources you do trust, after having been asked more than once] but I am sure you will agree that CNN is NOT a right leaning, or even moderate, media source.

CNN recently posted its latest poll on Obama, and Obamacare.

15. From what you know of that legislation (ACA), do you think you and your family are, in general, better off, worse off, or about the same now that the major provisions of the health care law have taken effect?

Better off – 18%
Worse off – 35%
About the same – 46%

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2014/images/07/22/rel7c.pdf

Twice as many people think they are worse off, than better off. And the question is misleading since the full impact of the ACA has not been felt since Obama has decided that he is not required to follow laws that he actually signed and has postponed so many of the ACA requirements (like the individual mandate).

And what percentage of those polled oppose/favor the ACA?

Favor – 40%
Oppose – 59%

The Obamacare bill is no more popular now than it was when it was passed in 2010, so after four years, it is still not wanted by the majority of Americans.

@retire05, #84:

I am aware that you don’t give credence to any source that leans right [although you refuse to state what sources you do trust, after having been asked more than once]

While I can name sources that I generally distrust, having repeatedly observed stories that seem purposefully inaccurate, there are none that I trust automatically. I think it’s important to always think critically about what’s being reported. There are no sources that always get their stories right.

Twice as many people think they are worse off, than better off.

Alternately, a total of 64 percent think they’re better off or about the same, while only 35 percent who take a negative view of the effect the ACA has had on them.

It’s interesting how the same numbers can be characterized differently.

@Greg:

It’s interesting how the same numbers can be characterized differently.

What isn’t interesting is your convoluted brain.

@Greg:

I get tired of constant accusations that the left is lying

Then you need to get the Dimocrats to stop saying anything. Rarely do they speak the truth. If they’re going to keep lying, they’re going to be called out on it.

@Greg:83

The subsidies are what have made it affordable for many people.

Very funny, so since the government will pay for all or most of it makes it more affordable? to who, the government?

Out-of-pocket deductibles provide an incentive for consumers to hold prices down

Actually it’s not. I want to get through the deductible as fast as I can so that the insurance will pay more of it than I do.

They could still have $5,000 to deal with,

You mean in addition to the premium? right?

@Greg:

Wow. Did you have to work years to develop such twisted pseudologic, or do you come by it naturally?

All of the propaganda (lies) Obama and the left put forth about the effect of Obamacare rested on the premise that this law would bring down the cost of health insurance and improve the economy – particularly once the employer mandate kicked in – without increasing anyone’s taxes or adding to the deficit, or causing people to lose their doctor or insurance plans if they liked them. None of those claims were true, and you are now making excuses for the fact that the obamacare premiums are so expensive that 80% of enrollees require taxpayer subsidies while dodging the fact that people who cannot affoed the cost of the premium are highly unlikely to be able to pay the deductible – which must be paid BEFORE any insurance kicks in.

What good does it do for taxpayers to pay for the cost of insurance for these 80% of current obamacare enrollees if they don’t get any actual.insurance coverage because they cannot pay the deductible to trigger insurance coverage? How long do you think doctors and hospitals will be able to care for obamacare patients – 80% of them based on current figures – if they don’t get paid for.their services due to insurance denial.of.payment due to the deductible not being met? That is the essence of the evil of obamacare, leading people to believe they have health care coverage when the reality is they do not.

Or are you going to support new laws that force doctors and hospitals to take obamacare patients against their will? Good luck with that plan.

Attacking the messenger who brings information you don’t like hardly makes your position accurate or truthful, no matter how much false compassion you use to deny reality.

@Pete:

and you are now making excuses for the fact that the obamacare premiums are so expensive that 80% of enrollees require taxpayer subsidies while dodging the fact that people who cannot affoed the cost of the premium are highly unlikely to be able to pay the deductible

The ‘just released’ numbers show that without the government federal subsidies, the average insured in Mississippi would pay $415 more a month. In Mississippi, 94% of the people that signed up get the illegal federal subsidy. (which will be going away soon)

@Pete, #89:

What good does it do for taxpayers to pay for the cost of insurance for these 80% of current obamacare enrollees if they don’t get any actual.insurance coverage because they cannot pay the deductible to trigger insurance coverage?

Insurance payments kick in once the deductible has been reached, not once the deductible has been paid. Whatever portion of that deductible the insured doesn’t pay becomes a balance he or she owes to the provider. That balance doesn’t have to be paid before insurance begins to pay.

Attacking the messenger who brings information you don’t like hardly makes your position accurate or truthful, no matter how much false compassion you use to deny reality.

I’m critical of the articles from the three linked sources because they’re deliberately creating a misunderstanding of the facts to manipulate public opinion. All three tend to do that on a regular basis.

@Greg:

because they’re deliberately creating a misunderstanding of the facts to manipulate public opinion. All three tend to do that on a regular basis.

That could certainly be said about you, Greg. Most info you post is misleading at best.