Iraq was won. It took Obama to lose it.

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obama mission accomplished

Howard Fineman, 2012

More to the point, politically, two of Obama’s leading strengths are foreign policy in general and his performance as commander-in-chief, according to the polls.

A quick perusal is enough to make the point. In the most recent national CBS/New York Times poll, Obama has a positive rating of 46-36 for his handling of “foreign policy,” his highest rating on any major issue or duty. A CNN recent poll gives the president a 52-36 lead over Romney on the question of who would be a better commander-in-chief. The CBS poll gives Obama a 30-13 lead over Romney on the question of which candidate voters have “very” strong confidence in to be commander-in-chief.

Obama’s lead on these topics reverse, at least for now, a generation’s worth of Democratic Party political weakness on defense and foreign policy — a crushing burden on the Democrats ever since George McGovern ran on an anti-war platform in 1972 and lost 49 states to Richard Nixon.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39_MDzf7zPM[/youtube]

Al Qaeda has been decimated, Osama bin Laden is dead.”

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQjztrnJzCM[/youtube]

Obama, 2011

‘We’re Leaving Behind A Stable And Self-Reliant Iraq’

November 1, 2012

President Barack Obama has described al Qaeda as having been “decimated,” “on the path to defeat” or some other variation at least 32 times since the attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya, according to White House transcripts.

This comes despite Libyan President Mohamed Yousef El-Magarief, members of Congress, an administration spokesperson, and several press reports suggesting that al Qaeda played a role in the attack.

Joe Biden, 2010

“I am very optimistic about — about Iraq. I mean, this could be one of the great achievements of this administration. You’re going to see 90,000 American troops come marching home by the end of the summer. You’re going to see a stable government in Iraq that is actually moving toward a representative government,” said Biden.

“I spent — I’ve been there 17 times now. I go about every two months — three months. I know every one of the major players in all of the segments of that society. It’s impressed me. I’ve been impressed how they have been deciding to use the political process rather than guns to settle their differences.

How inept is the Obama team?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za7IIAMC08g[/youtube]

Today

Mosul has fallen to Al Qaeda

Tikrit has fallen to Al Qaeda

Baghdad is falling to Al Qaeda.

Liberals constantly repeat the phrase “It happened on Bush’s watch.” Well, guess what. This is happening on Obama’s watch. It’s his. He owns it. He is making the sacrifice of more than 4,000 US soldiers meaningless. That’s more lives lost than on 9-11, and it’s solely because of ego, because of hubris, the consequences of trying to forge a legacy instead of respond appropriately to world events.

Two years ago I wrote that Obama tended to leave destruction in his wake.

Three years I warned of Obama building an Islamic Caliphate and the he was demanding that US taxpayers contribute.

Al Qaeda is not dead. Al Qaeda is not decimated. They control more territory than ever. Al Qaeda in Mali is armed with the best weapons thanks to Obama and controls much of Africa. Obama has sought to depose all the leaders, bad as they are, who kept a lid on Al Qaeda- Gaddafi, Mubarak and Assad.

As Glenn Reynolds might say, it’s all proceeding as I have foreseen.

Barack Obama suffers from terminal narcissism and commemorates every single notable event on the calendar by including himself in a tweet and this is no exception.

congrats to ISIS

The top image is courtesy of John Hinderaker. The bottom one is mine.

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#249:

In #199, I did cut and paste your comment (look again) and in #201 I gave the source (Racial Hypersensitivity, #136) so your comment: “he doesn’t know how to do that” (referring to Redteam’s #247: “Using the cut and paste method for quoting, as well as quoting the comment number…) is proven wrong. What I do NOT know how to do is provide the LINK directly, as you and Nanny G and others have done.

I don’t understand what you are going after in this thread about the two different killing statements. I see clearly that they are different, and I explained WHY they are different. But if I WERE to change my mind on something – and I certainly have changed my mind on more than a few details since I started writing here – is that something that is disallowed?
Lord God Retire05, art thou always right? I’m sure not. Forgive me.

#250:

You are again right. I don’t know how to make the categories and archives link narrow the search. I tried to “search” “retire05 @ George Wells” and got nothing, so I tried “retire05” and got two topics, one on June 22 and one on June 23, and that was it. I don’t remember what topic the comment was in, or the month, so those category and date searches are not helpful. My computer doesn’t reveal any other search options. Since you take pleasure in my ignorance, I’m glad that I have made you happy.

In #199, I did cut and paste your comment (look again) and in #201 I gave the source (Racial Hypersensitivity, #136) so your comment: “he doesn’t know how to do that” (referring to Redteam’s #247: “Using the cut and paste method for quoting, as well as quoting the comment number…) is proven wrong. What I do NOT know how to do is provide the LINK directly, as you and Nanny G and others have done.

Typing out a comment is not “cut and paste” which would provide not only the comment, but the link, so the “proven wrong” claim doesn’t fly. You don’t even seem to understand the terminology when it comes to computers. Perhaps you could get some 5 year old to explain it to you?

@George Wells: 248

Regarding misquotes, I find a great difficulty in locating specific comments among the thousands of posts on hundreds of separate threads, and I seem to have very little recollection of WHEN an item in question was posted. So I am usually unable to locate the post, and so cut-and-paste copy is rarely possible. Retire knows this, and so demands links, etc.

I know what you mean. Not long ago, after having referred to Rich Wheeler being an alum of Cornell several times, he informed me it was Colgate and that he had never said Cornell. I seached through hundreds of comments by Rich and could never find the original comment and could not find anywhere he had said Cornell or Colgate, though I’m sure he did. Meanwhile I had commented about him being in an Ivy league school (Cornell) several times in which he agreed, but I never did find either statement. Had they all had comment numbers attached, it would /should have been easy.

@George Wells: 248

that I need this stimulation to postpone the onset of Alzheimer’s Syndrome, a serious risk for diabetics at my age.

I have never heard of a relationship between diabetes and Alzheimer’s. Interesting.

@retire05:

George obviously doesn’t know how to use the search engine on this site, either. So poor him,

LOL, maybe you could help me then. I tried using the search on this site and it seems to only search the posts, not the comments. I can never find anything. I am convinced that Rich Wheeler said he was an alumni of Cornell, I used search to see if I could find it and got no results. See if you can find that.
I support the right of a society to take the life of certain people, convicted murderers, for example. I think they should allow abortions under certain conditions, a brainless fetus, for example. I can see how people can feel differently than I do.
George’s statement:

I support a society’s right to take the life of whom ever they choose,

I can’t agree with at all, especially if he really meant to use the word ‘choose’. If George had made the following statement “I support a society’s right to take the life of whom ever they have legally decided has forfeited the right to continue to exist in a peaceful society, or has been judged to have uncorrectable conditions, before birth, that will prevent the baby from ever having a meaningful life.” There may be other circumstances, but you get the gist.

@retire05:

George obviously doesn’t know how to use the search engine on this site, either.

I don’t either. I’ve tried, especially trying to find statement by Rich Wheeler about being an alumni of Cornell. Couldn’t get any response at all from ‘search’ on that. I think it only searches posts, not comments. Maybe you can educate me on that.

I have posted at least three comments that don’t show up

@Retireo5 #253:

“Typing out a comment is not “cut and paste” which would provide not only the comment, but the link, so the “proven wrong” claim doesn’t fly. You don’t even seem to understand the terminology when it comes to computers. Perhaps you could get some 5 year old to explain it to you?”

I never type out the comment.
I highlight the comment I want to copy with the mouse (left toggle, click, hold down and drag) and then use the right toggle to click on “copy.”
Then I go to where I want the copy placed, first designate that location with the mouse’s left toggle and then use the right toggle to select “paste.”
I was under the impression that this operation was called “cut and paste,” so I used that term, EVEN THOUGH THE TERM “CUT” USUALLY RESULTS IN THE REMOVAL OF THE PASSAGE FROM THE ORIGINAL SITE. I DON’T have the option to actually cut and remove anyone’s archived posts, so the operation I performed would more correctly be called “copy and paste,” would it not?
Please forgive me if I am wrong.

#254:

The doctor explained to me that diabetes (through the agency of high blood sugar) damages all blood vessels, especially capillary vessels. The damage to small vessels in the brain reduce circulation in the brain that then slowly deprives the brain of oxygen, contributing to an early onset of dementia. This dementia is frequently diagnosed as Alzheimer’s syndrome, even though it is likely a different manifestation of dementia not caused by the accumulation of brain plaque. In either case, the result is the same.

P.S. Sorry about your missing posts. I usually write on Microsoft Word and then “copy and paste” the whole thing to Flopping Aces. I do that because I have had Flopping Aces erase an almost finished post several times. Apparently, FA gives you maybe an hour to write, and then, if you aren’t finished, it gets erased automatically.

Either that, Or my friend Retire05 knows a way to hack onto my screen and delete what I’m working on. I think that such things are possible.

@George Wells:

Either that, Or my friend Retire05 knows a way to hack onto my screen and delete what I’m working on. I think that such things are possible.

#1 I am not your friend, and never will be

#2 I have no interest in your computer. I suspect I would find things on it that I do not approve of.

From Retire to George:

I suspect I would find things on it that I do not approve of.

literally lol. Credit where credit is do. That was darn funny.

@George Wells:

George, to show a link simply cut and paste it right out of the url bar into the text of your comment.
Thus:

Iraq was won. It took Obama to lose it.

But to paste that link into a sentence so it can link words quoted to the link use the word LINK right above the comment box.
Grab the url as per above then….
Highlight the portion of the sentence you want linked as you would a cut and paste.
Then simply click the link box and add the addy bar info into the top line as if you are pasting it on that line.
Click OK and you will see the comment with the link along with all the url info and the embedding info inside your sentence.
When your post the comment that part will be linked.

Have you tried the bold (b) or the italics (i) or the delete (del) yet?
They are simple.
Just highlight then click the b, i or del box.

@Nanny G #263:

Thank you VERY VERY much for your compassionate help. I think that I will eventually be able to do what you describe, although I have never seen the word “link” anywhere on my screen. It may be that a necessary toolbar has been “hidden”.

In any event, I’m heading to New Hampshire tomorrow morning to care for a near-death old lady friend of mine for at least a week or two. It may be our last time together. She caused a bit of a ruckus today when she tried to check herself out of the nursing home she’s… staying at. She cannot stand up (much less walk) and is completely incontinent, but she got it into her head that she’d rather be back at her house. (It was sold a few years back, and the details were not kept from her.) Life is so precious. Don’t waste it being angry.
Thank you all for talking to me. I love you.

@openid.aol.com/runnswim (Larry Weisenthal) #262:

Yes, it WAS humorous.
But she would be so disappointed…
She would find that each day, I Google gay marriage, and then I search Ebay for rocks and minerals I’m looking for, and several types of antique English earthenware. After that I work in my garden, because I can lose up to 5 pounds a day if I’m inactive. In 2012, I drove to Tucson and back to Virginia Beach and lost 35 pounds, all the while suffering from very high blood sugar. ( I am presently at 138 pounds.) So strange…
Your posts are great!

George Wells
the link is down below :
name
email
website
comment
B i del link B-quote LINK IS RIGHT THERE ON THE LEFT,
abc
you can use THERE IS 2 lines of signs,
BYE

@George Wells:

I am presently at 138 pounds

Good Gosh, you must be 5 ft. tall. Or you look like a Dachau concentration camp victim.

In any event, I’m heading to New Hampshire tomorrow morning to care for a near-death old lady friend of mine for at least a week or two.

Never trust a nursing home that allows non-professionals to care for geriatric patients.

:

5’10”
I’ve had diabetes a long time, and it’s killing me. Max weight ever was 160. Never liked sweets. Doctors haven’t a clue. It is a auto-immune malfunction that I have, but diagnosed as Diabetes Myelitis, Type 2. Hope you never get it.

@Redteam:The missing comments showed up later.

I am so inspired by all of the Flopping Aces kumbaya displayed on this thread. If any of you entirely wonderful guys or gals, straight or gay, California or Texas or whereever, conservative to liberal, happens to find him/herself in the greater LA area, of which the absolutely best city in not only SoCal but the USA is Surf City USA, home to looney libs like me and to solid conservative citizens like the FA blogmeister, Curt, it would be my absolute honor to host any of you for some home cookin’ at Casa Weisenthal, a personally-conducted tour of the most important biomedical laboratory in the world, and 9.5 miles of the best ocean beach in the civilized world. Just send me an email to runnswim@aol.com. I am the soul of discretion (being a medic thoroughly indoctrinated in 21st century HIPAA regulations) and would never in a million years “out” your true identity, despite being one of the most openly transparent internet debate addicts since the mid 1990s.

I’m really inspired by what I’ve read on this thread. You wonderful guys and gals are certifiably human!

– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA

openid.aol.com/runnswim (Larry Weisenthal)
DO YOU LIKE A GOOD TIM HORTON FRENCH VANILLA COFFEE,WITH FRENCH TOAST,
FOR BREAKFEAST?
NICE OF YOU, THANK YOU, AND HI TO YOUR FATHER,
BEST TO YOU, IT SOUND FANTASTIC,

When you’ve lost The Atlantic, a most predictable left wing publication, you know you have lost:

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/06/obamas-disastrous-iraq-policy-an-autopsy/373225/

Here’s a relevant quotation, from the Atlantic piece:

While far less egregious than George W. Bush’s errors, Obama’s have been egregious enough. By ignoring Iraq, and refusing to defend democratic principles there, he has helped spawn the disaster we see today.

The mistake was invading Iraq in the first place. It spawned a disaster of catastrophic proportions. No one with a modicum of common sense (sorry Wordsmith; sorry Scott; sorry Curt, all of whom I respect greatly) would ever have gone into Iraq in March 2003, knowing what we know today. No, it wasn’t the conclusion of the 1992 Gulf War. It was a brand new war. A war of choice. And a disaster of choice it was.

Good grief, unlike Hillary Clinton and a lot of spineless Democrats who were nothing more than enablers, Obama (and I) staunchly opposed the Iraq invasion from the beginning. In March, 2003. Obama ran, in 2008, on a policy of getting America out of Iraq. He won a decisive victory, by historical standards. It was Bush and not Obama who signed the agreement to withdraw American troops in their entirety. But Obama is now being blamed for not undoing the ostensible error that Bush did in signing the agreement to withdraw American troops. Obama is being blamed for being Obama, for doing what he pledged to do in his presidential campaign, and he’s being blamed for not undoing the error that Bush allegedly made in agreeing to total American withdrawal.

I don’t buy any of it. I agree with former Reagan NSA Chief Lt General Wm Odom, who famously predicted that it didn’t matter how long US troops stayed in iraq … 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, 15 years. The ultimate outcome was the same. Civil war between sectarian fractions. it’s time for the US to get the h— out of the entire region of Islamistan. There were 500 American soldiers killed after the US had allegedly “won” the war, with another 5,000 grievously wounded, after the gloriously famous “surge.” If we’d stayed there, another 500 or more would now have been killed, another 5,000 would have been grievously wounded, and our continued presence in Islamistan would have inspired 100,000 more to the call of mortal Jihad.

Leave them alone, to sort out their own problems, to kill each other, to blow each other up … whatever it takes to solve their problems for themselves.

This is one situation where the best defense is not a good offense.

Bring Americans home from Islamistan. All of them.

Let’s defend America. And let the true believers in Islam sort out their own conflicts with other Islamic true believers.

The more time we spend in Islamistan, the more Islamistan refugees end up within our borders. Look at what this has done to Europe, including the UK.

Enough, Enough. Enough. It was a bad idea from the beginning and it’s a bad idea today.

Obama is right. Get the heck out and leave them the heck alone to solve their own problems. I am alarmed most not by Obama’s critics, but by Obama’s response to his critics, which is to go back in, after we’ve finally gotten the heck out. Get out of Iraq and stay out. Get out of Afghanistan and stay out.

– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA

Hi Bees,

Thank you so much! I truly hope that I can meet you, some day. You will always be welcome in my home, if ever you visit Southern California. And your breakfast sounds simply FANTASTIC! Thank you! – larry

WE MUST NOT FORGET, that PRESIDENT BUSH WAS THE ONE TO BE FORCE TO ANSWER THE 9/11 ATTACK,
HE HAD TO ACT AND FAST ENOUGH, AND HE TARGETTED A BRUTAL EVIL DICTATOR WHO WAS KILLING HIS OWN PEOPLE, SO HE CHOOSE TO ATTACK SADDAM HUSSAIN, IT WAS RIGHT AFTER HE SADDAM HAD ATTACK THE NEIGHBOR ALLY COUNTRY AND REPEL BY GEORGE BUSH FATHER, WHICH ALMOST GOT KILL IN THERE, that was the target of choice to retaliate on for the deaths of 6000 PEACEFULL AMERICANS WORKING IN THE TWIN TOWERS PLUS THE OTHER ATTACK WHICH KILLED MANY PEOPLE IN THAT PLANE TAKEN HOSTAGE,
THE ACTIONS WHERE JUSTIFIED AND NEEDED TO BE DONE,
SO DON’T ACCUSE THE PRESIDENT BUSH, FOR THAT,
HE WAS RIGHT ALL THE WAY, HE HAD NO CHOICE,
AND ALL THE IRAK PEOPLE SHOULD BE OWING THEIR LIVES
TODAY TO PRESIDENT BUSH AND HIS WARRIORS WHO WON THAT WAR, AT A BIG PRICE, OF LIVES AND BLOOD,
BECAUSE MANY OF US WOULD HAVE REDUCE THE WHOLE COUNTRY TO DUST,

Hi Bees, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, and I know in my heart that Wordsmith, Curt, and Scott all agree with me. Bush himself blamed it on, and I quote, “bad intelligence” — and he did so three times; including in his exit interview Jan 2009.

Openid.aol,com/runnswim
YES but he had to retaliate and in a big way, and that’s where he had the most knowledge on a TYRAN,
the knowledge came from his father after he had fought him to free the country that SADDAM INVADED,
PRESIDENT BUSH NEEDED A TARGET, HE CHOOSE THE WORST TYRAN, HE HAD LEARNED OF,
if he would have waited longer, it would have taken off on the attack great harm done to the USA,
THAT’S WHY, HE DID
you said he admited but he admited only on the chimicals
they had not found, at that time, but they did later proved the chimicals was there,
he did not apologize for going to WAR, AND HE AND HIS WARRIORS WON THAT WAR,
WHICH IS THE LAST WON WAR,
and yes THE DEMOCRATS WHERE AGGREEING TO IT,

@openid.aol.com/runnswim (Larry Weisenthal):

The mistake was invading Iraq in the first place. It spawned a disaster of catastrophic proportions.

And we can say that our late entry into WWII spawned the deaths of 6 million Jews, and millions of Chinese.

No one with a modicum of common sense (sorry Wordsmith; sorry Scott; sorry Curt, all of whom I respect greatly) would ever have gone into Iraq in March 2003, knowing what we know today.

What foreign policy of the past would not be changed if we knew then what we know now? Hind sight is always 20-20.

No, it wasn’t the conclusion of the 1992 Gulf War. It was a brand new war. A war of choice. And a disaster of choice it was. No, it wasn’t the conclusion of the 1992 Gulf War. It was a brand new war. A war of choice. And a disaster of choice it was.

Actually, it was the cessation of a peace treaty that Saddam Hussein violated over, and over, and over again.

But Obama is now being blamed for not undoing the ostensible error that Bush did in signing the agreement to withdraw American troops. Obama is being blamed for being Obama, for doing what he pledged to do in his presidential campaign, and he’s being blamed for not undoing the error that Bush allegedly made in agreeing to total American withdrawal.

Here is the reality of the job of president; Truman inherited the war started by FDR; Nixon inherited the war started by JFK. Inheriting the situation on the ground of the previous administration is the way it works. If Obama was not up to the task, you should not have voted for him. But you want to ignore all the warning signs he was given (by our own intel, by the Kurds, et al) that ISIS, the same AQ spin-off group that Obama armed in Syria, was gearing up to march across Iraq. You also ignore the reporting of the NY Times, no less, that the Iraqi government wanted American forces to stay, and Obama was so determined to withdraw ALL the troops in order to keep a campaign promise, that he refused to re-negotiate the SoFA. I suggest you read that article. It is not complementary toward Obama. And that’s the NY Times, for heaven’s sake.

If the agreement signed by Bush was such a catastrophe, then Obama should have renegotiated a better one. He did not. Instead, his entire focus was in pulling out ALL the troops to sate his far left base (like you) in spite of multiple warnings of what we are seeing today. Obama erred in not renegotiating, but it was an error by design.

Leave them alone, to sort out their own problems, to kill each other, to blow each other up … whatever it takes to solve their problems for themselves.

You, like likeminded leftists, seem to think that the only reason the Islamists come after us is because we place our feet on their soil. You are wrong. They come after us for the same reason the Muslim hoards marched across Europe in the 1600’s. They are driven, not by a radicalization of Islam, but because they are instructed by Islam to conquer the world for Islam. If pulling out of Iraq was the quick answer, we would not have seen attacks at Fort Hood or in Boston. But we did. And the sooner you accept that this is not a new war for Islamists, but the reconstitution of a centuries old war against the West, the better off all of will be.

One saying you should remember “The enemy of my enemy is my friend.” There is great information in that. Once the Iraqis tire of fighting each other, once the Sunnis tire of fighting the Shia, they will unite to come after us. And burying your head in the sand, blaming the U.S. for the hostilities, is pure bone-headedness. It is simply a denial of Islam’s centuries old goals.

Obama is a failure, Larry. He is a failure on foreign policy, and he is a failure on domestic issues. Yet, you seem to refuse to see that.

@retire05:

When you’ve lost The Atlantic, a most predictable left wing publication, you know you have lost:

That’s ONE writer at the Atlantic, whose entire piece is predicated upon the assumption Bush’s decision to invade is the ultimate cause of the current state of affairs. Since you’ve linking to the article, does that mean you share the authors view that “Yes, the Iraq War was a disaster of historic proportions.”?

Here is what James Fallows, the Atlantic’s national correspondent, has to say about the parade of neo-Cons and former Bush staffers who have chosen this moment to critique the current President without acknowledging their own parts in what’s transpired:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/06/the-past-is-never-dead-bill-faulkner-said-but-what-did-he-know/372887/

Am I sounding a little testy here? You bet. We all make mistakes. But we are talking about people in public life—writers, politicians, academics—who got the biggest strategic call in many decades completely wrong. Wrong as a matter of analysis, wrong as a matter of planning, wrong as a matter of execution, wrong in conceiving American interests in the broadest sense. None of these people did that intentionally, and many of them have honestly reflected and learned. But we now live with (and many, many people have died because of) the consequences of their gross misjudgments a dozen years ago. In the circumstances, they might have the decency to shut the hell up on this particular topic for a while. They helped create the disaster Iraqis and others are now dealing with. They have earned the right not to be listened to.

@retire05:

and he is a failure on domestic issues.

Objectively, that’s simply not true. Quite the opposite. Obama ran and won – twice – on articulated ambitious domestic goals, all of which he’s to some degree achieved.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/06/obama-has-now-fulfilled-his-4-big-promises.html

On January 20, 2009, when Obama delivered his inaugural address as president, he outlined his coming domestic agenda in two sentences summarizing the challenges he identified: “Homes have been lost, jobs shed, businesses shuttered. Our health care is too costly, our schools fail too many, and each day brings further evidence that the ways we use energy strengthen our adversaries and threaten our planet.” Those were the four major areas of domestic reform: economic recovery measures, health-care reform, a response to climate change, and education reform. (To the justifiable dismay of immigration advocates, Obama did not call for immigration reform at the time, and immigration reform is now the only possible remaining area for significant domestic reform.) With the announcement of the largest piece of his environmental program last Monday, Obama has now accomplished major policy responses on all these things. There is enormous room left to debate whether Obama’s agenda in all these areas qualifies as good or bad, but “ineffectual” seems as though it should be ruled out at this point.

Obviously, it’s too early to know how all of this will ultimately play out. One thing is for certain though, none of the dire predictions made about Obamacare by conservatives have come true, and by most metrics, it’s working the way it was intended: it’s reducing the ranks of the uninsured, premiums aren’t skyrocketing, and insurance companies continue to join the exchanges. Thus the return by many conservatives to the more philosophical gripe that Obamacare is just another wealth transfer.

@Tom:

Since you’ve linking to the article, does that mean you share the authors view that “Yes, the Iraq War was a disaster of historic proportions.”?

It is not necessary that I agree, or disagree, with the authors evaluations. I simply pointed out the article, written for the most reliably left wing magazine, The Atlantic, which has been consistently anti-Bush, pro-Obama, was critical of Obama’s actions (or we could say, inactions) on the Iraq issue.

Too bad that you think one must choose a side. That is the problem with most progressives, like yourself, who agrees with this statement:

In the circumstances, they might have the decency to shut the hell up on this particular topic for a while. They helped create the disaster Iraqis and others are now dealing with. They have earned the right not to be listened to.

IOW, if you don’t agree with the policies of this Administration, the left wants you to sit down and shut up. So much for valuing the First Amendment. Perhaps you can show us where you demanded the same of Harry Reid when he was saying “the war is lost” while we still had soldiers fighting, and dying, in Iraq, or you make the same request of former presidents like Carter and Clinton.

Now, when you can come back and comment on the article, not demanding that others take one side, or the other, in regards to the article, and discuss it with even a small amount of intellect, get back to me.

@Tom:

. One thing is for certain though, none of the dire predictions made about Obamacare by conservatives have come true, and by most metrics, it’s working the way it was intended: it’s reducing the ranks of the uninsured, premiums aren’t skyrocketing, and insurance companies continue to join the exchanges.

The greatest number of new enrollees have either signed up for Medicaid, or are receiving subsidies. Hardly a winning goal. And yes, insurance premiums are rising. I know. Mine has increased beginning January 1, 2014. But you don’t mention that the one true government health care system, the VA, is a disaster. Why is that?

Hi Retire: Firstly, I want to give you the courtesy of acknowledging that I read your replies to my recent post about Iraq. I don’t really have anything more to say, other than I don’t agree with you. We’d be going around and around forever.

I do want to comment on health care. In 2008, my number 1 issue was health care and my number two issue was Iraq and US military involvement in Islamistan. I’ve explained the latter. With regard to health care, the number one issue was the huge number of Americans without health care insurance. By the end of the open enrollment period, 8 million enrolled in exchanges and 6 million enrolled in Medicaid. Both of these numbers would have been significantly higher, given a modicum of cooperation by the many GOP governors who did all they could to sabotage it. The uninsured rate in Texas, by the way, is currently 60% above the national average and this will increase to an even more embarrassing disparity, by the time of the next Presidential election. A large number of people with pre-existing conditions (e.g. two of my close relatives: one with a history of cured Hodgkin’s Disease and the other with osteoporosis) purchased private plans outside of the exchanges. Contrary to conservative claims, employers have not flocked to dump their employer plans. It is a certainty that the number of uninsured will continue to drop to impressively low levels, by the time Obama leaves office in January 2017.

With regard to premium rate increases, you make it sound as if premiums wouldn’t have gone up, absent ObamaCare. I’ve been purchasing private health insurance on the open market for the last 23 years. Our premiums, during this time, skyrocketed, including in the 5 years preceding ObamaCare. We had policies cancelled and re-written. One of the great things about ObamaCare, besides the non-denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions and continued coverage for kids until age 26, is the drop on lifetime benefit caps. All of these are great benefits, but they do add a little bit of extra cost. Still, if you look at the trend line of health insurance costs pre and post initiation of ObamaCare, there’s absolutely no evidence that ObamaCare has accelerated the rate of cost increase, e.g.

http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/story/health-care-premiums-rise-5-year-increase-131-decade

In other words, thanks to ObamaCare, we are now getting a better health insurance product at no effective increased cost, meaning that the Affordable Care act is having at least a minor effect of bending the curve downward (i.e. rate of increase is the same; product is better; had product remained poor; rate of increase would have actually diminished).

It’s early on and the change is monumental. Of course it will take some time to work it out and improve it.

With regard to government health care models, the VA is not the proper model, as the VA is a totally socialized system, as in the UK. The proper model is Medicare, which has been shown to be the best large scale health care plan in the nation, based on consumer satisfaction, outcomes, and overall cost. If you got rid of Medicare, there would be greater overall cost and we’d go back to the days when the elderly lived out their last years in a state of poverty or imminent poverty.

Regarding the VA, the problem isn’t quality of care or consumer satisfaction. The problem is access. The problem is that there aren’t enough doctors and other health care employees. Earlier in my career, I worked for the VA for 8 years, by the way. The problem of access was caused by greatly expanding the load of patients, because of the Islamistan wars, without increasing the VA funding commensurately. The long term costs of the misguided Islamistan wars are simply staggering.

– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA

@retire05:

It is not necessary that I agree, or disagree, with the authors evaluations. I simply pointed out the article, written for the most reliably left wing magazine, The Atlantic, which has been consistently anti-Bush, pro-Obama, was critical of Obama’s actions (or we could say, inactions) on the Iraq issue.

Obviously, you defeat your own premise with the article you introduced in the first place. The Atlantic certainly leans left editorially, but like other “liberal” publications, it’s not unusual for it to publish pieces that run counter to liberal thinking or that criticize Obama or other figures on the Left. There is a lot of diversity of opinion on a range of issues among and within the major Liberal publications. Check out the New Republic on Israel, for example. People who reside in certain conservative echo chambers assume the Left is just like the Right in how everything needs to reaffirm a narrow world view, but that simply isn’t true. An interesting example of the echo chamber phenomena is a recent study that showed Republicans who get their news primarily from Fox diverge from non-Fox Republicans on a host of issues:http://www.newrepublic.com/article/118066/brookings-survey-fox-news-home-most-conservative-republicans

The difference is even starker in terms of views of immigrants. Sixty percent of Fox News Republicans say immigrants are a burden, compared to just 33 percent who believe they strengthen the country. For Non-Fox News Republicans, the numbers are nearly reversed: 56 percent believe immigrants strengthen the country, compared with 38 percent who believe they are a burden. As the chart below shows, the views of Non-Fox News Republicans are once again closer to the views of all Americans than Fox News Republicans:

Similarly, many conservatives mistakenly assume liberal positions mirror conservative ones, for example, conservatives who oppose all tax increases on principle assume liberals approve all tax increases on principle. These are mistakes of understanding that could easily be remedied by research and an open mind instead of militant close-mindedness.

Retire:

IOW, if you don’t agree with the policies of this Administration, the left wants you to sit down and shut up. So much for valuing the First Amendment.

Ah, not quite. To your point, here’s your liberal buddy, Jon Chait, taking it right at Fallows

The Atlantic’s James Fallows argues that Iraq war hawks “might have the decency to shut the hell up on this particular topic for a while.”
….
When you’re trying to set the terms for a debate, you have to do it in a fair way. Demanding accountability for failed predictions is fair. Insisting that only your ideological opponents be held accountable is not fair. Nor is it easy to see what purpose is served by insisting certain people ought to be ignored. The way arguments are supposed to work is that the argument itself, not the identity of the arguer, makes the case. We shouldn’t disregard Dick Cheney’s arguments about Iraq because he’s Dick Cheney. We should disregard them because they’re stupid.

Your rush to the conclusion that one liberal opinion is representative of all liberal opinion is likely the outcome of your political environment, which puts a high cost on deviation from certain rigid orthodoxies, therefore stifling free thought and debate. You should get out more. Not only on the left, but on the right there are interesting debates and conversations happening all the time. Doesn’t the same cycle of Obama / Bengazi / IRS / Obama / Bengazi / IRS ever get old?

@retire05:
Retire:

The greatest number of new enrollees have either signed up for Medicaid, or are receiving subsidies. Hardly a winning goal.

I’m not sure that’s true, but it isn’t a refutation that the ranks of the uninsured are decreasing.

Retire:

And yes, insurance premiums are rising. I know. Mine has increased beginning January 1, 2014

You are one person and I know nothing about your coverage or situation. That is not proof of an aggregate trend. I should also have clarified that rates naturally rise, the question is whether, as conservatives have contended, obamacare will make health insurance prohibitively expensive, which so far it has not:

The survey also provides new insights into the experiences of “plan switchers,” people who previously had individual-market coverage and switched to new coverage after Jan. 1 either by buying coverage through the state marketplaces or directly from insurers. This group includes people who had their old policies cancelled as the ACA’s requirements kicked in, as well as people who switched for other reasons, including the availability of premium subsidies. In spite of reports last year about some people having plans cancelled and facing higher premiums, the survey finds that plan switchers are about as likely to report that they are paying less for their new plan than their old one (46%) as they are to say they are paying more (39%)..

Retire:

But you don’t mention that the one true government health care system, the VA, is a disaster. Why is that?

Because that wasn’t the topic of our back and forth. I understand that it’s hard not to interject the same talking points into every debate, but at least give me more context as to your point so I can reply.

@openid.aol.com/runnswim (Larry Weisenthal): 273

But Obama is now being blamed for not undoing the ostensible error that Bush did in signing the agreement to withdraw American troops. Obama is being blamed for being Obama, for doing what he pledged to do in his presidential campaign,

Larry, would you say that, in general, Obama has been a ‘man of his word’, such as an open presidency and dozens of other things he promised to do? Just curious.

@Openid.aol.com/runnswim: 276

Bush himself blamed it on, and I quote, “bad intelligence” —

But we do know now, as I always have, that the WMD actually did exist (the caches having recently been uncovered)

@Tom:

premiums aren’t skyrocketing,

LOL, obviously you havent’ checked. I know someone who’s deductible went from $50, to 250, to 500, to 2000 and recently went to $10,000. All since Obamacare. With that kind of deductible you just know they’re gonna be running to the doctor for every little reason.

@retire05:

Mine has increased beginning January 1, 2014.

I assume you’re referring to Medicare supplemental. Mine went up then also 1/1/14 and went up again 6/1/14 and it wouldn’t surprise me if another one at end of year.

283 Larry, you make a lot of ‘claims’ about how great Obamacare is, but provide absolutely no data or links to back that up I have seen no official report that indicates that it is doing what it was plannned to do (well, yes it is, it is destroying the insurance companies in this country so we will have to go to a system like the UK has, that is the real intent) Less people are insured, co-payments are higher, premiums are higher. I can’t figure out where the successful measurements are.

openid.aol.com/runnswim (Larry Weisenthal)
so, it tell us, that the MILITARY are being made responsible for the COMMANDER IN CHIEF DECISIONS,
leading to their lost of limb and need of care,
is it done by preventing them to a healthcare, WHICH SHOULD BE, superior to the prisoners or the welfare recipients,
that is NOT what it is now even below, as we speak,
if it was adequate , there would not be desperation to the point of commiting suicide,
HOW BAD DID IT HAS BECOME? VERY BAD,
WE KNOW THAT OBAMA IS GENEROUS ,
FOR THE MUSLLIM COUNTRIES, BUT CHEAP FOR AMERICA,
THOSE WHO PAY HIS EARNING AND GENEROUS DONATIONS,
ABROAD, IF ONLY HE COULD START TO PAY THOSE EXPANSES
AND SPENDING SPREES, FROM HIS OWN EARNING,
than he would stop being generous
with other hard workers money, when did he tell,
the MUSLIM MIDDLE EAST, THIS IS NOT MY MONEY I GIVE YOU,,
IT’S THE MONEY OF HARD WORKING AMERICANS, AND I DID NOT ASK THEM, I JUST FELT LIKE BEING GENEROUS,
AND GO TO A SPENDING SPREE, SO DO NOT ATTACK THOSE GOOD PEOPLE, THEY HAVE DONE NO WRONG ,
THEY EVEN ALLOW YOU TO IMMIGRATE AND GET JOBS IN MY GOVERNMENT AND GET YOUR PERSONAL MOSQUE,
IS IN IT A KIND PEOPLE THOSE AMERICAN ARE,

@Redteam:

LOL, obviously you havent’ checked. I know someone who’s deductible went from $50, to 250, to 500, to 2000 and recently went to $10,000. All since Obamacare. With that kind of deductible you just know they’re gonna be running to the doctor for every little reason.

You haven’t specified if your friend has Obamacare or not. Rising deductibles, as a health care trend, pre-date Obamacare. Obamacare offers more choices, such as different plans with different premiums, deductibles and co-pay options, so if a low deductible is what you want, you can get that.

@Tom:

You haven’t specified if your friend has Obamacare or not.

all increases since Obamacare was passed. Destroys your argument that Obamacare lowers cost. You didn’t argue that having Obamacare itself lowered costs, just that it lowers costs because it exists. If your argument is that you have to have Obamacare to lower costs and that others will go up, that makes your case even worse because many more have something other than obamacare so that means more will go up than down. Incidentally, none have gone down.

@Redteam:

all increases since Obamacare was passed. Destroys your argument that Obamacare lowers cost.

Actually, I never argued that it lowered costs. And it’s fair to say I’m somewhat dubious that an argument about policy can be destroyed by a second-hand anecdote relayed anonymously on the internet.

If your argument is that you have to have Obamacare to lower costs and that others will go up, that makes your case even worse because many more have something other than obamacare so that means more will go up than down.

There’s a lot of straw around here. Sorry, that’s not my argument either. My argument, which you actually quoted above, is that obamacare premiums aren’t skyrocketing. This was subsequently refined to the more precise “I should also have clarified that rates naturally rise, the question is whether, as conservatives have contended, obamacare will make health insurance prohibitively expensive, which so far it has not”. Considering this is, on the average, true despite a botched roll-out, rampant fearmongering on the right and, in some cases, GOP obstruction and failure to implement the law of the land, says something. Obviously, it’s not perfect, but these are good long-term signs for the program.

@openid.aol.com/runnswim (Larry Weisenthal):

With regard to health care, the number one issue was the huge number of Americans without health care insurance.

The official number put out by the federal government, itself, was 36 million uninsured, although every time a Democrat opened their mouth, the number seemed to get higher. 50% of those uninsured lived in households with an annual income of $50,000.00. Hardly a income level that forced destitution on someone. Add into that mix, that most of those were young (under 40) or illegals.

The uninsured rate in Texas, by the way, is currently 60% above the national average and this will increase to an even more embarrassing disparity, by the time of the next Presidential election.

And you think that having 2 million illegals in a state of 25 million did not contribute to that percentage? I noticed there is a difference between your far left liberal state of California and conservative Texas. California provides insurance to its 5 million illegals. Texas does not. But even then, the U.S. born children of illegals are entitled to the CHIPS program in Texas, but if parents are not willing to pay the $50.00, or less, that insures their children, I hardly see where it is the governments responsibility to pay the insurance for people who are citizens, and the responsibility, of another nation.

With regard to premium rate increases, you make it sound as if premiums wouldn’t have gone up, absent ObamaCare. I’ve been purchasing private health insurance on the open market for the last 23 years. Our premiums, during this time, skyrocketed, including in the 5 years preceding ObamaCare.

I can only tell my personal experience. I have UHC as a secondary health insurance provider. It was at no cost to me due to years of union contracts with AT&T. Last year, my cost was $10.00/month on insurance that I have been guaranteed for decades that would never have any cost for me but I assumed because I rarely used it. This year, the cost skyrocketed to $100.00/month, a 1000% increase with no increase in usage. Now, perhaps you think that doesn’t matter (being a supporter of Obamacare, and all) but I damn sure do.

People all over the country are seeing their deductible increase 50, 150, 500%. How is that cost saving?

Add to the fact that your state’s insurance policies affect your premiums. How many providers did you have to chose from? Texas has opened the market for insurance providers, and that competition drove down the cost, not the meddling of the federal government. The requirement of allowing 26 year olds (fully adults) to remain on their parents health insurance policy was not a health care decision, it was a political one. 26 years olds under Obama are finding it harder and harder to gain employment so what better way to pander to them than allow their parents to continue to support them? You liberals need to decide when a person reaches adulthood. A 25 year old college graduate who cannot find work is considered a child to be covered by his parents insurance policy (which drives up the cost for other policy holders) but a young girl of 15 IS considered an adult if she wants to get an abortion or have access to birth control. Time you make up your mind on the age of adulthood.

The proper model is Medicare, which has been shown to be the best large scale health care plan in the nation, based on consumer satisfaction, outcomes, and overall cost.

Really? Your own beloved AMA listed Medicare as the single worst health care provider in it’s most recent Health Insurance report card. Medicare had the greatest number of claim denials of any major health care provider and no matter how you spin it, denied claims do not improve health care.

Regarding the VA, the problem isn’t quality of care or consumer satisfaction. The problem is access. The problem is that there aren’t enough doctors and other health care employees. Earlier in my career, I worked for the VA for 8 years, by the way. The problem of access was caused by greatly expanding the load of patients, because of the Islamistan wars, without increasing the VA funding commensurately. The long term costs of the misguided Islamistan wars are simply staggering.

Poppycock. The VA is a cancerous institution that rewards bad behavior of its employees and denies health care to those who put their lives on the line for it. The VA is a behemoth with a $160 BILLION annual budget and 330,000 employees. Perhaps it was better when you worked for it, but it is a national disgrace now, and yet you try to defend it. Not that I’m surprised knowing your political bent. And there has been NO increase in the number of veterans to be served by the VA. In 2001, our nation had 26 million veterans. Today that number is 21.5 million. You can do the math but by my math, that is an reduction of 4.5 million veterans.

You view health care as a “right” although I suspect you would be the first to scream bloody murder if the federal government required you to provide your medical services to some one for free or tried to limit the amount of money you can earn although you paid for all those years in medical school. Health care is a commodity, just like any thing else, including food and water. Perhaps I should sue the government because I am required to pay a water bill. After all, I cannot survive without it.

@retire05:

And there has been NO increase in the number of veterans to be served by the VA. In 2001, our nation had 26 million veterans. Today that number is 21.5 million. You can do the math but by my math, that is an reduction of 4.5 million veterans.

I’m a veteran and I’m not eligible for any VA medical coverage. Does anyone have any numbers on how many of the 21.5 million vets are eligible? I’m not eligible because I was in the Navy from 57-61 no wars and no service connected injuries.

Redteam
hi
I am worry, I read that they are all around where they are, and control the airport,

@Redteam:

I don’t know the answer to your question. I do know of one Army veteran that never saw combat, and was never stationed overseas, did not sustain any service related injury, that was in service in the 60’s and he gets treatment at the VA hospital in Temple, Tx. I had questions about that but did not pry deeply into it.

The numbers I provided were simply for the veteran populations.

@retire05: There are ‘certain conditions’ that make almost any veteran eligible. Any Vet that is homeless, living in poverty or just absolutely can’t get medical care any other way, is eligible.

@Redteam:

Well, then, this guy would not apply. He owns 1,200 acres of prime Texas ranch land and draws a monthly check from oil revenue. My first suspicion that he was full of hot air was when he told me that his VA worker said he was eligible for disability because he suffered from being sprayed with Agent Orange in Korea.

Now, no Agent Orange was used in Korea and if he was in Korea, even the last year of the war, he was the only 14 year old in the U.S. Army at the time.