Obama seeks race-based school discipline policies. That’s what got Trayvon Martin killed

Loading

obama-the-great-divider-obama-politics-1341571326

The scene: Two school kids aged 12, one white, one black, beat a Hispanic child in a school classroom. The white child is suspended. The black child is absolved of responsibility.

Welcome to Obama’s New World of Race Based Discipline and Punishment Quotas

Barack Obama’s “African American Education Initiative” creates a new Federal bureaucracy. One of its goals will be to stop disciplinary action against black public school students who misbehave.

~~~~~~

On July 26th Obama signed an executive order titled the “African American Education Initiative.” The order essentially gives a green light for black students to misbehave in public schools. In two places, Obama’s executive order calls on schools to reduce the number disciplinary actions taken against blacks students. The order specifically calls on schools too “not rely on methods that result in disparate use of disciplinary tools.”

To comply, public schools would have to engage in a racial quota system of discipline. The executive order will create a new Federal bureaucracy to pressure school systems to comply with the president’s demands. The executive order makes no mention of any effort to get black students to improve behavior.

Obama claims that black students lack equal access to education:

The executive order also states that black students “lack equal access” to education. This statement, by the White House, is outrageous and easily disproved. Across the nation, majority black public schools routinely receive more funding per pupil than majority white public schools.

Washington DC is the perfect example. It has the highest average per pupil funding of any public schools in the nation. It also has the blackest public schools in the nation. Yet, this over-funding of black students yields no results in terms of academic improvement. DC public schools are widely touted as the worst performing schools in the entire industrialized world.

If DC was a state, it would be the state with the highest average per pupil expenditure and the lowest average performance. More money does not equal better test scores.

Missouri leads the nation in its black/white state funding gap. The state has spent billions of dollars in a failed effort to improve the academic performance of black students. Majority black schools in St. Louis and Kansas City have Olympic sized swimming pools, lavish theater and music departments, and state of the art computer labs. Per pupil spending is over double that of poor majority white public schools in the Ozark Mountain region of Missouri.

Once again, we see that the over-funding of black students yields no benefits. The very poor white students in the Ozarks have none of the lavish amenities enjoyed by the black students. However, the poor whites in the Ozarks outperform the better funded black students in the big cities.

I am not sure what a lack of education has to do with comporting one’s self to accepted societal behavior (that’s where parents come in), but Obama’s assertion is simply untrue.

Although it is often blamed for the racial achievement gap, unequal school funding is largely a myth. Per-pupil spending in the U.S. is broadly similar across racial and ethnic groups. If any one group enjoys an advantage in funding, it is black students, especially in the Northeastern states. Group differences in school achievement cannot be the result of an unequal commitment of resources to minority students, and simple increases in public school funding are not likely to close the gaps.

It is precisely this kind of Obama idiocy that got Trayvon Martin killed. Trayvon Martin was caught with stolen goods in his possession.

It was that M-DSPD internal affairs investigation which revealed in October 2011 Trayvon Martin was searched by School Resource Officer, Darryl Dunn. The search of Trayvon Martin’s backpack turned up at least 12 pcs of ladies jewelry, and a man’s watch, in addition to a flat head screwdriver described as “a burglary tool”.

When Trayvon was questioned about who owned the jewelry and where it came from, he claimed he was just holding it for a “friend”. A “friend” he would not name.

Martin’s parents claimed to know nothing of the incident and they may not have learned of it because it was buried:

Later, after the police report was outlined in the Robles article, and despite Trayvon being suspended for the second time in a new school year, Martin family attorney, Benjamin Crump, said Trayvon’s dad, Tracy Martin, and Trayvon’s mom, Sybrina Fulton, did not know anything about the jewelry case.

It was only as a consequence of the M-DSPD internal affairs investigation that “why” they may not have known came to light.

The goods found on Martin matched the police report:

On October 21st 2011 a burglary took place a few blocks from Krop Senior High School where Trayvon Martin attended. The stolen property outlined in the Miami-Dade Police Report (PD111021-422483) matches the descriptive presented by SRO Dunn in his School Police report 2011-11477.

The episode never became a crime:

However, there was ONE big issue. SRO Dunn never filed a criminal report, nor opened a criminal investigation, surrounding the stolen jewelry. Instead, and as a result of pressure from M-DSPD Chief Hurley to avoid criminal reports for black male students, Dunn wrote up the jewelry as “found items”, and transferred them, along with the burglary tool, to the Miami-Dade Police property room where they sat on a shelf unassigned to anyone for investigation.

A separate report of “criminal Mischief” (T-08809) was filed for the additional issue of writing “WTF” on a school locker. [It was the search for the marker used to write the graffiti that led to the backpack search].

The cover story was that Trayvon Martin was suspended for “graffiti” and not possession of stolen goods. The event was morphed from a crime into a school discipline event for a specific reason:

School Superintendent Alberto Carvalho gave his hire, Police Chief Hurley, instructions to reduce the criminal behavior of young black males. The chosen strategy between them, to insure optical success, was to stop using the Criminal Justice System to punish black student behavior. Instead they instructed the School Resource Officers to use school discipline in place of criminal justice.

Had Trayvon Martin been held accountable for stolen goods, had the school properly reported the crime, Trayvon Martin would have had to face the justice system. It is likely he doesn’t get sent to live with his father.

But he would be alive.

Now Obama promotes more of the policies that got Trayvon Martin killed. Those policies are not just wrong, they are morally wrong. Conduct rules are colorblind and they should be.

Because of those causes, the report suggests, “over a third of African American students do not graduate from high school on time with a regular high school diploma, and only four percent of African American high school graduates interested in college are college-ready across a range of subjects.”

“What this means is that whites and Asians will get suspended for things that blacks don’t get suspended for,” because school officials will try to level punishments despite groups’ different infraction rates, predicted Hans Bader, a counsel at the Competitive Enterprise Institute. Bader is a former official in the Education Department’s Office for Civil Rights, and has sued and represented school districts and colleges in civil-rights cases.

“It is too bad that the president has chosen to set up a new bureaucracy with a focus on one particular racial group, to the exclusion of all others,” said Roger Clegg, the president of the Center for Equal Opportunity.

Offering one race protected status has to run afoul of the fourteenth Amendment.

What’s next? How far does is this to go? Do African Americans get four strikes before being called out? Will touchdowns for African Americans count for eight points? Will murder be a misdemeanor if committed by an African American?

“A disproportionate share of crimes are committed by African Americans, and they are disproportionately likely to misbehave in school… [because] more than 7 out of 10 African Americans (72.5 percent) are born out of wedlock… versus fewer than 3 out of 10 whites,” he said in a statement to The Daily Caller. Although ” you won’t see it mentioned in the Executive Order… there is an obvious connection between these [marriage] numbers and how each group is doing educationally, economically, criminally,” he said.

Making believe that doesn’t happen and dumbing down the standards for wrong behavior is not going to help anyone. Schools are given three years to comply and equalize penalties based on race alone:

The state’s board of education established a policy demanding that each racial or ethnic group receive roughly proportional level of school penalties, regardless of the behavior by members of each group.

The board’s decision requires that “the state’s 24 school systems track data to ensure that minority and special education students are not unduly affected by suspensions, expulsions and other disciplinary measures,” said a July 25 Washington Post report.

“Disparities would have to be reduced within a year and eliminated within three years,” according to the Post.

Eric Holder, ever the idiot, notes that some misbehave more than others:

In February, Attorney General Eric Holder claimed that “we’ve often seen that students of color, students from disadvantaged backgrounds, and students with special needs are disproportionately likely to be suspended or expelled.”

“This is, quite simply, unacceptable. … These unnecessary and destructive policies must be changed,” he said in his speech, given in Atlanta, Ga.

Let us not demand appropriate behavior. Instead let us change the policies to accept the wrong behavior.

This is all very wrong. As Glenn Reynolds predicted, the worse Obama does, the blacker he becomes.

0 0 votes
Article Rating
Subscribe
Notify of
44 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments

Proverbs 22:6

Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Ecclesiastes 8:11

Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.

Obama thinks we can go in the opposite direction of this and somehow end up with ”educated,” law-abiding blacks?
Those verses are not merely words ”inspired by God,” they are also time-tested realities.
Families and societies for eons can attest to the truthfulness of those principles.
When Obama said he wanted to ‘transform America,” who knew he wished to rip out all of America’s ties with reality of human behavior in favor of fiction?
Because Obama’s plan is based on fiction.
It cannot work because it flies in the face of human nature.
It can only harden the hearts in a bad direction of those excused from the consequences of their actions when there was a chance to set them on a better path.

Oh, and not only that.
This Obama/Duncan initiative also forces schools to punish other races worse so as to balance them out with blacks.
In other words, bring back the whipping boy.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/whipping+boy

How about this: designate some schools to be black only, fund them just as any other school and have NO DISCIPLINARY ACTION FOR ANYTHING WHAT SO EVER. Would the left like that?

They should, since they all come from the racist Southern Democrat stock that opposed desegregation.

What did you expect from a dope smoking racist?

@bburris: See Chicago and Detroit…

We really need to get federal involvement OUT of education, especially K-12. Failure to do so will give us an entire country like Detroit.

This is a call for extra-legal mob justice. If the government designates a class of criminals to be invulnerable to the law, then others must take the law into their own hands.

I’m not sure that’s what the Treasonous Criminal Zerobama and his accomplices have in mind, but it will happen, as sure as night follows day.

“Sorry I’m late, dad, but I got detention today.”
“What did you do to get detention, son?”
“Nothing.”
“Don’t lie to me, boy, they don’t give detention for nothing!”
“They do, dad. 50% of the students are black, so random white kids are sent to detention to make sure that only 50% of the students in detention are black.”
“WTF? When did this happen, son?”
“When you weren’t paying attention, dad. Thanks a lot.”

@<a href="

Obama seeks race-based school discipline policies. That’s what got Trayvon Martin killed

That was awesomely profound.

@bburris: #2
They already have that. I wish that I could find the link the link to an article written by a teacher in Birmingham who described his experience as pretty much what you described. It was a pretty chilling description of a generation coming up without hope of a productive future.

Dr. John:

You are one stupid, scared, ignoramus.
All of the rhetoric you wrote above goes to show how scared you are of any Black American who has the same or less advantages as you have.
You poor scared little white man. Grow up!

@Gigi Tinsley: I didn’t see anything in Dr. John’s post that indicated fear or stupidity; I did see a lot of actual quotes and facts.
Your response, on the other hand, lacked detail, facts, accurate quotes or anything else to indicate you were trying to make a valid point. Care to share the point you were trying to make? Or are you just another useless little troll trying to stir things up?

@Scott in Oklahoma: So Scott, may we assume you saw some ignoramus in the post?

Ignoramus was actually a profound thinker from the Classical Greek era. He maintained his greatest thoughts came forth while sitting in his outhouse. He was plagued with constipation, so he spent hours in deep contemplation. His greatest contribution was his Harmony of the Spheres. He swore that when he visualized the hello-centric universe, the planets made music while orbiting the sun. Unfortunately, when he put the sounds to music, the world realized he was also plagued with gastric attacks. However, the ancient Greeks felt empathy for the man and did their best to put together a symphony when he came to use the communal outhouses.

Unfortunately, he was discredited during a bout of the flu, from that point, his music and the Harmony of the Spheres lost its rhythm and it was never recovered, but he felt relieved of a great deal of pressure.

@Skookum: Haahaahaa… only in the reply Skook.

@Scott in Oklahoma, I guess it comes down to what you want to consider “facts”.

First of all, the EEIA was implemented over a year ago. And is, in fact, almost identical to EO 13555 in Oct of 2010 – an education initiative for Hispanics. The Hispanics initiative, which also created a new agency under the Dept of Education, was originally created by Bush the elder in 1990, and subsequently renewed by every POTUS since.

So if the EEIA is supposed to have created favoritism in disciplining school age kids by race, should we then say that Obama, both Bushes, and Clinton did the same with the Hispanic initiative and it’s remarkably similar creation and structure? In fact, since the EEIA’s initiative went into place, is there any cited evidence of racial based favoritism from either, other than the breathless quotes and warnings of frantic wannabe pundits cited here?

Rather it looks like the whole brouhaha lead in about racial discipline quotas – already a stale non story – was really little more that an opportunity to recite the Treepers meme that Martin was unworthy of a chance at life beyond his teenage years.

Skook, a very funny historical recap there… sure made me laugh! Makes a body wonder if constipation has reached epidemic proportions in our times.

@MataHarley: You wrote: “I guess it comes down to what you want to consider “facts”.” I don’t see where you are disputing anything Dr. John wrote. Yeah, the EEIA has been around a long time, Carter created the Dep’t. of Education, just another over-reach in my opinion, by the feds into what should be solely a local responsibility.

As for Martin, he intentionally decided to live outside of the law, outside of the rules of decent and honorable behavior and in fact the night he died was the one violating state law when Zimmerman was forced to defend himself (legally, I might add). Worthy or unworthy doesn’t really matter, doing the right things does, and Martin CHOSE not to do the right things.

Scott, if you think I’m not disputing anything in the OP, you didn’t read carefully enough. The entire premise, via headline, is that Obama was “seeking race-based school discipline” favoring blacks. As I pointed out, there is no cited abuse, nor does the initiative differ from the similar education initiative started 23 years ago by Bush the elder. I’ll be even more plain spoken. The race based school discipline charge is utter BS, and in fact has been in place with no citations of abusive implementation, as has the Hispanic initiative.

As for Zimmerman/Martin, I’m certainly not going to rehash the trial and events. I accept our judicial system’s outcome. However major flaws still exist despite the verdict – that no one saw Martin throw the first punch at the tee or can document that Zimmerman did not provoke physical response by either grabbing Martin or that “reaching for his cell phone” – located in a different pocket, was not seen by Martin as potentially reaching for his gun. After all, where he was reaching was towards his gun, not his cell. This was all via Zimmerman’s own accounts, physically demonstrating his “reach” via various video interviews. The one where he was the most informative – the interview prior to the CVSA test – was not evidence admitted into court…. likely because FL law will not consider polygraphs or VSA’s admissible. That hour long retelling of the event by Zimmerman, and the follow up interview, was the most informative account from the horse’s mouth.

The verdict really came down to one thing – jury instructions. The Judge did not include complete jury instructions of Florida manslaughter laws… giving just a generic except and not including specific and detailed FL instructions on Manslaughter by Act or Manslaughter by Criminal Negligence – two of three FL manslaughter charges. The exclusion was the reason the jury asked for clarification on manslaughter, but did not receive it. The State and judge’s error played in Zimmerman’s favor, and that’s the way our system works.

We don’t know what the verdict would have been had the complete instructions on FL manslaughter charges been given, as that’s a parallel universe. Might have been the same, or not. But listening to post trial juror comments, it sounds like the majority wanted to put some onus on the event for Zimmerman’s decision making, but did not see a way to do so via the shaved down manslaughter instructions, excluding Manslaughter by Criminal Negligence. Thus why some are advocating for law changes. Sad thing is, there need be no law changes. What they might have been seeking as consideration was there, but not provided to them via instructions. Instead, this will be the banner for attempting to take Castle doctrine back to just including the homefront. Zimmerman has done the RKBA movement no favors… hence the reason the NRA never came out in support of Zimmerman for the duration.

@MataHarley:

Rather it looks like the whole brouhaha lead in about racial discipline quotas – already a stale non story – was really little more that an opportunity to recite the Treepers meme that Martin was unworthy of a chance at life beyond his teenage years.

Some people simply cannot refrain from impugning motives. Obama does the same thing.

This PC crap is what got Trayvon Martin killed. His parents weren’t even told of the stolen goods.

And Martin made a very bad choice trying to beat someone to death.

So what you are admitting, drj, is that your post is really about repeating Treeper opinion, and not really about “race based” discipline? Does it even cross your mind that the time frame for Treeper’s accusation of Martin’s burglary predates the EEIA by a year, ergo cannot be remotely connected?

@Gigi Tinsley:

That’s it? Name calling? No facts? I’d rather that Trayvon Martin was alive.

@MataHarley:

>sigh<

For a moment I thought you actually read the post…..

I read all this BS last year when it happened, as well as your post today, linking it to the Treeper’s characterization of Martin, drj. Both the Examiner and DailyCaller put out their predictions and hyperbole without noting it’s virtually the same as the decades old Hispanic initiative. Old news and false fear mongering that does nothing but divide people.

Teens and young people get in to all kinds of trouble… even Zimmerman himself has a sketchy past with alcohol abuse, drugs for his mental illness and it’s affect on him that led to domestic abuse charges. Doesn’t mean that Martin, like Zimmerman, doesn’t straighten himself out as he gets older and focuses on more serious ambitions. Age and responsibility have a tendancy to do that. There’s no end to the productive citizens that have indiscretions in their past, or still continue to smoke pot to this day.

@MataHarley:

They’re not “almost identical”- especially not the press release version.

Promoting a positive school climate that does not rely on methods that result in disparate use of disciplinary tools, and decreasing the disproportionate number of referrals to special education by addressing root causes of the referrals;

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/07/26/president-obama-signs-new-initiative-improve-educational-outcomes-africa

Please cite that in the Hispanic version- the original. Thanks

@MataHarley: Obama, through Holder, is most certainly trying to get a distinct advantage for blacks, not only in schools, but in elections and the justice system. That is no secret, and becomes more obvious almost daily.

Explain how Martin thought Zimmerman was reaching for his gun, when it was concealed and Martin had no way of knowing there was a gun in play until after he was beating Zimmerman’s head against the concrete. Had Martin known of the gun at the beginning of the encounter, he would probably still be alive, because he probably would have retreated to the residence he was staying in, less than 100 yards away.

Polygraphs and VSA’s are not admissible in any state that I know of due to reliability issues, the results they provide are subject to the operator’s opinion, finding an independent operator is impossible.

Had the state felt that manslaughter was an appropriate charge, they would have charged it. But there was a problem with intent and/or proving negligence, neither of which applied. That’s why that charge wasn’t included in the jury instructions, why it wasn’t charged in the first place. In fact, no charges should have been filed, as the original State’s Attorney had decided, as the evidence didn’t support criminal wrong-doing. But political pressure caused the state to bend, if not break the rules and laws that applied, hence the acquittal.

By the way, I have a little experience with Florida law, I retired from an agency that shared the same circuit court as Sanford.

drj, I provided the links to both initiative EOs in my comment above. Text you seem to take umbrage with is the “does not rely on methods that result in disparate use of disciplinary tools” phrase.

First I might point out that the word used, “disparate”, means that disciplinary tools should not significantly differ based on race. I doubt you disagree with that. However it appears you construe that phrase, inserted into the Black Initiative, to mean favoritism and lighter penalties to kids who are black… just as Daily Caller and the Examiner did last year. You take that further to suggest notions like letting these kids get off, based on being black, is a contributing fact to Martin’s death.

Woof… you missed the world of news around you at that time, guy. Nothing could be further from the truth and, in fact, was shown to be the exact opposite.

What the Daily Caller and the Examiner did was not only ignore the Hispanic Initiative, but bypass that just three months earlier, there was a study released on the educational inequities for all minorities in teacher experience, discipline and the rigor of high school curriculum. The NYT’s ran an article about the findings in March 2012.

The study was conducted in 2009-10. Summary of findings from the Dept of Education press release:

Among the key findings are:

African-American students, particularly males, are far more likely to be suspended or expelled from school than their peers. Black students make up 18% of the students in the CRDC sample, but 35% of the students suspended once, and 39% of the students expelled.
Students learning English (ELL) were 6% of the CRDC high school enrollment, but made up 12% of students retained.
Only 29% of high-minority high schools offered Calculus, compared to 55% of schools with the lowest black and Hispanic enrollment.
Teachers in high-minority schools were paid $2,251 less per year than their colleagues in teaching in low-minority schools in the same district.

You can see the ORCD’s summary report here with graphs, representing White, Hispanic, Black, Asian and Native American. The only category significantly out of whack with the survey samples was the black students.

This means I have two points as to your “show me” challenge:

1: The 2012 released study, (nor the prior years’ study on the same subject) did *not* reveal any “disparate” spread in discipline for Hispanics. Thus the 2010 Hispanic Initiative did not contain any references to findings that simply didn’t exist. Why should it?

2: On the other hand, the news making report was quite clear on the disciplinary statistics section as it related to black youths. Thus why the 2012 Black Initiative, release a few months after the latest study, *did* contain that language.

When you did the OP, you never addressed these statistics released about discipline by race, nor ever considered there was a specific reason for mentioning disparate discipline by race. What you did was talk about educational funding by race… which is not even close to the subject matter.

The Initiative is not going to give black students a pass for genuine serious disciplinary problems. However when you see this type of spread, it’s certainly something to raise an eyebrow.

So let’s get ahead of the game on old news…. When Freepers linked to the NYTs article about the study findings last year, the majority of the commenters supported the harsher and more disparate discipline, without even knowing the specific details that led to the statistics of these individuals. In their minds, the spread was justified because black kids are in trouble more… no big deal. They wouldn’t even consider that such data could possibly be disproportionate.

Then again, the Treeper crowd also decided that Martin was a kid, unworthy of living based on what they saw as his ugly character. Harsh much? And there are more than a few on this site who claim that Zimmerman rid the world of one more thug and should be commended. That trial really brought out the butt ugly in far too many.

Oddly enough, and totally counter to assertions by you, and the original 2012 Daily Caller/Examiner complaints, what those statistics show was Martin was likely to have a *higher* chance of suspensions or expulsions than others… not less. So how could these “policies” lead to his death, as you claim? In fact, if you want to look at the rate of crime by black youth, obviously this higher ratio of school discipline ain’t working and may just be fostering more rebellion, and a distaste for higher education.

INRE Martin and the jewelry, since so many want to fixate on that as proof positive. Does anyone have any proof that it was Martin who stole the jewelry? Or was he holding for a friend, as he asserted…. and wouldn’t rat anyone out. Much as a grateful 22 yr old Zimmerman appeared to be on his Joe G page, happy that his friends “[They] do a year and dont ever open thier [sic] mouth to get my ass pinched.”

As I said, there is no dearth of those with indiscretions in their past. Ah, the irresponsibility of youth.

One can argue whether suspending kids over minor graffiti or MJ residue in baggies is a discipline or a reward. In my day, generally such behavior ended up with mandated community service/clean up as discipline, and not some “days off” from school. Suspensions and being denied going to school for a period was more like a vacation than a discipline.

So my opinion remains. The Black Initiative is not some race based discipline quota and get out of suspension free pass for black youths. Nor has there been any proof/citations that was done since it’s implementation.

And none of the Initiative remotely has anything to do with Martin, save to show that he was more likely to be a target of discipline at his school than others of different races.

@Scott in Oklahoma, manslaughter is an included lesser charge in FL to M2. It was included in the jury instructions, however FL has three versions of Manslaughter. By Act, By Criminal Negligence and DUI Manslaughter. The first two should have been included, as they generally are in other manslaughter as a lesser offense cases.

Explain how Martin thought Zimmerman was reaching for his gun, when it was concealed and Martin had no way of knowing there was a gun in play until after he was beating Zimmerman’s head against the concrete.

You know, I find it somewhat bizarre that people are so sure you know what Martin saw, when, and felt in one part of the event, but then discount that he may be feeling anything at another time. The point is none of us know when, or if, Martin ever saw a gun except as Zimmerman tells it. The first visual sighting of the two was 30+ feet away from where Zimmerman said it started, so there’s a lot of that puzzle missing. But logic dictates that it’s pretty hard to see a gun, holstered on the rear right hip, when you’re straddling someone.

What Zimmerman explained he did, over and over, at the initial meeting was respond to Martin’s question than “reach for his cell phone”. How do you know how Martin, who was aware he had been followed for at lest four to five minutes, viewed that action? Sure would make me nervous. Makes LEO’s nervous too. If a citizen does that same movement while facing an LEO, they are likely to get shot on the spot since they will assume he’s reaching for a weapon. In this case, you had Zimmerman, who thought Martin was a bad guy. And you had Martin, who thought Zimmerman was a bad guy since he was being tailed.

What killed Martin was bad judgement on Zimmerman’s part, instead of deescalating and/or defusing the situation. He had multiple opportunities – when Martin passed his car, or when they met – to ID himself. He chose not to, by his own admission. Even that self defense expert the defense used as their star witness said he wouldn’t have handled the situation the same way.

Bad choices that night for all concerned, and the political fallout with be a rush to curtail the Castle Doctrine.

@MataHarley: In Florida, Manslaughter by act requires intent (no intent); Manslaughter by Negligence (doesn’t apply), Manslaughter by DUI (doesn’t apply). The statute doesn’t fit, but you think it should be forced in that situation? Obviously the Judge disagreed.

If Martin was so nervous about that encounter, why didn’t he just go “home”? He sure had plenty of time. And when he saw Zimmerman reaching, why didn’t he just run away? Why go on the attack? That got him killed.

Manslaughter by Criminal Negligence and By Act apply as possibilities for the jury’s consideration. DUI doesn’t apply. The difference between by Act or by Criminal Negligence is worded different in other states as voluntary vs involuntary. The jury was never allowed to consider “involuntary” manslaughter because they were not given instructions for it.

I still have to laugh at this “why didn’t he just run away” bit. First of all, he already “ran away” and retreated. How many times is necessary to prove he did not want a confrontation with a stranger?

And again, we only have Zimmerman’s account that Martin went “on the attack” because no one saw that part of the altercation. There’s varying stories by Zimmerman of how that initial meeting went down. His primary video reenactment indicated Martin punching him at the tee, stumbling five or so steps, and Zimmerman falling. But that doesn’t explain how the first witness to see the fight saw them 30 feet or more away from that spot.

In the end, there will always be more questions than answers about that night. Small pieces to a larger puzzle. But at this point, it’s moot.

INRE “running home”. I was followed on more than one occasion by an ex boyfriend in high school, who hung with a dubious crowd. I was taught from a young age not to lead anyone following me to a place of sanctuary, and certainly never my home. To this day, if I’m being followed on the road, I’m driving to the nearest police station or fire station… never home. So I wouldn’t have led Zimmerman home either. No clue what Martin was thinking, but the only person at his house was a 12 yr old, home alone. Can’t say as I don’t blame him for not leading a stranger, following him, there either.

Plus if you remember the NEN call timing, Zimmerman was out of the car and following Martin right after he ran. By Zimmerman’s own account, he reached the tee within 25-33 seconds after getting out of the car and Martin could have been seen if he was at his back door. As even Serino pointed out, there was no possibility that Martin could have made it to the condo without being seen. I’d say that since he ran, knowing this guy was following him, being seen wasn’t exactly is goal.

I’d likely have hung up with the friend and called 911. Then again, I’m not black and not necessarily imbued with the distrust of law enforcement that is prevalent in many black community members. Also, I’m not male and saddled with hormones that might lead me to believe that I can handle anything coming my way by a possible aggressor.

There’s two perspectives here. One from Zimmerman’s view that Martin was a bad guy. And another one from Martin, being followed by some strange guy first in a car, then on foot, and not knowing why. I find it somewhat amazing that people choose only to stand in one person’s shoes.

The story link above Petercat wanted to remember may be this one:

http://www.angrywhitedude/2013/07/essay-by-a-teacger-in-a-black-high-school/

Try being a caretaker in a Section 8 Apartment complex….you can’t even imagine….! And YES they are taught this nastiness at home! Mindnumbing and gutwrenching horrors of in your face abuse, intimidation and filth! That is the culture and they think they’re cool. It’s sick!

@MataHarley: I spent over 5 years as a criminal street gang investigator in Central Florida, more time investigating juvenile crime. The picture you have in your mind of Martin doesn’t fit the scenario, not just from Zimmerman’s view, but from the view of Martin’s history including stuff that wasn’t admissible about Martin in the trial because it was prejudicial. From my experience, Martin was a pretty typical teen thug on the path to violence and crime; his trip ended sooner than many I knew only because he picked the wrong “victim”. You can ignore the facts all you want, and let emotion dictate you opinions all you want, I’ll base my opinions on facts and first hand experience.
I’m done Mata, you won’t change my mind and I ain’t gonna try to change yours.

Scott, I have no problem with neither of us changing minds. However it doesn’t appear that I’m the one responding out of emotions. I found neither character in this trial appealing or sympathetic. I’m just looking at timelines of events, the physics and the perspectives of both as each viewed the moments… not whether either was worthy of supporting personally. That is what I would consider an “emotional” analysis.

And of course Martin’s past wasn’t admissible. You should know that the actions of a perp, who committed a murder two days before, has no bearing on his later death if it happened when he’s not committing a crime at that given moment. That’s the “worthy of death” argument I mention. If Martin’s smoking marijuana was relevant, which it wasn’t considering the residue levels, then Zimmerman’s general side effects to both Adderall and Temazepan, specifically the aggression issue mentioned by Zimmerman himself to Singleton, would be just as relevant. Both sides agreed they weren’t going in that direction. Tho the defense did get the toxicology report entered in to evidence at the end, but declined to put an expert witness about THC levels on the stand.

INRE the fighting, it appears that both have experience – Zimmerman being the only one with formal MMA training. But it doesn’t appear he was adept at it. Have no clue if it gave him more confidence, having that training. No insight into the working of the man’s mind, and he hasn’t volunteered any.

@Scott in Oklahoma: I love a little humor in the midst of an intense discussion.

Jeantel testifed thatshe told Martin to keep running but Martin said no, he’d lost Zimmerman. Zimmerman said Martin had lost him as well. Jeantel testified that Martin told her he was right outside Green’s home (26 building). The shooting took place between the 28 and 12 buildings. Martin had to return to find and confront the gay rapist.

Martin’s autopsy showed evidence of Lean abuse in his liver. Lean can easily alter one’s behavior and Martin tweeted about it often.

drj: Martin’s autopsy showed evidence of Lean abuse in his liver. Lean can easily alter one’s behavior and Martin tweeted about it often.

This is kinda like one of those urban legends with legs. Nan G tried the same avenue recently, and I had to send her right back to the original medical examiners report.

So now Jeantel/Dee is important, except when she isn’t? LOL About the only value to Jeantel as evidence is that the phone call final drop can document the time of meeting – 2 minutes and 5 seconds after Zimmerman hung up with the NEN – and that he was aware he was being followed. Other than that, she has no idea what “right by his daddy’s house” translates to in location. Compared to what.. the location of the 7-11? The clubhouse? And it wasn’t Martin who mentioned Zimmerman being a rapist. She made that remark and said he just responded (paraphrased) don’t even kid about that. Now it’s urban legend that Martin thought Zimmerman was gay?

Dang… legs. I’m with Scott in that I’m pretty much done. Just wandered in here to correct the record on a year old story about nuttin’, and it’s non relationship to Martin.

Jeantel’s testimony largely mirrors Zimmerman’s- that upon meeting Martin asked why he was being followed and Zimmerman asked what Martin was doing there.

If Martin says “I’m visiting my father’s girlfriend’s place” it’s over. Instead, he cold-cocked Zimmerman. Jeantel said she believed Martin threw the first punch and so do I. The injuries are consistent with it.

@Arlie: #28
Yes, that was the one. Thank you.
From Mata Harley:
“Only 29% of high-minority high schools offered Calculus, compared to 55% of schools with the lowest black and Hispanic enrollment.”
Because the kids in those schools wouldn’t take Calculus? You can lead a horse to water, after all…
“Teachers in high-minority schools were paid $2,251 less per year than their colleagues in teaching in low-minority schools in the same district.”
They get less pay because they have less experience- the experienced teachers do not want to work there.
Pay increases with experience and education, and the high-minority schools do not attract the experienced or highly educated teachers, who are better able to be competitive for jobs in the less stressful, low-minority schools.

@MataHarley:

It’s the evidence, Mata.

When I went to the http://www.ed.gov/edblogs/whieeaa/executive-order/ page to see how Obama signed this executive order I was struck by the fact that, besides Arne Duncan, there were no people of any other color in the Oval Office for the photo op.
Still, I think Obama is going about what he CLAIMS he wants ass-backwardly.
He’s had 5 years already.
Why hasn’t he used his bully pulpit to sway black youth away from a life of sub-standard ”English,” clothing choices, body art choices, and study habits?
Probably because people like that might start thinking for themselves instead of staying on the Dem plantation no matter how it keeps them down.
It’s sad, really.
This was the area where I thought Obama could have shined.

this is the biggest crock i have ever heard!! by hom doing this gives the “green light” for black students to racially profile and bully other races due to the fact of the “new rule ” on the discipline, it is going to create an huge racial war.

@jessica appolonia:

That’s the point, jessica. To create a race war. That will be the Treasonous Criminal Zerobama’s Reichstag Event.

From a teachers point of view…Obama’s actions will continue to lower US education. The disruptive students in my classes are proportional to the class demographics. The common thread is parenting or a lack thereof. Many parent meetings are requested, and black, white, brown, purple or green…few show up. Only the few concerned parents come to meetings about behaviors. What the federal law should have allowed was cameras in the classroom. Proof of who is guilty…and suspend based on evidence, not quotas or race.

@jay tee: Excellent point, but without race issues, some people wouldn’t stand out in the crowd.

@bburris:

How about this: designate some schools to be black only, fund them just as any other school and have NO DISCIPLINARY ACTION FOR ANYTHING WHAT SO EVER. Would the left like that?

I doubt you could get a teacher to teach there. I don’t believe you would get many students there. You would not get anyone educated there.
Why isn’t this new plan of Obama unconstitutional? How can you have a disciplinary system in schools that treat races differently? Clearly illegal.
I’ll bet old Tom, Greg and This One will love this program.

I’ll be at your mama’s house before the bus pulls off the curb. Respect diversity , do your homework and use your manners in the classroom. Don’t come into this classroom showing out and acting a fool ! Pull your pants up before they fall off your behind. Get your books open and on Title VII of Civil Rights Act 1964- 42 U.S.C. Sect.2000 (d).Suspension and Expulsion Due Process ! What Federal Law to administer student discipline ? 20 U.S.C Section 1415 (k) can be found on pages 118 and 123. A teacher does not discipline based on the color of your skin or your ethnic origin. Is the Obama Administration re-writing Title VII of the Civil Rights Act as it relates to Public Education ? Speak up Alternative Education Teacher’s in America ! Blast the Temptations….”Get Ready.” ” The roof,the roof,the roof is on fire ,I ain’t got no money and the roof is on fire.” Where is this new Federal Law to administer student discipline ? Oh lau and don’t misinterpret the implementation of intent and get confused. “Ball Of Confusion.”