19 Jun

Where do we come from? And what’s the point?

                                       

2001_monolith_dawn_man


“The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”

-Mark Twain

Some longtime readers may remember a bit of my background:

I was born in 1968, Phoenix, Arizona. My ethnicity? Thai. Beyond that, I have no knowledge of my birth heritage and biological parents, as I was given up for adoption.

I’ve always had a pretty strong memory. I have a number of early childhood memories, both vivid and faded.

Something that I have rarely shared with people, and which is deeply personal for me, but which I am willing to share with you readers and the NSA, is my earliest memory:

The moment of my birth.

For as long as I can remember (literally), this memory fragment has been with me:

Awash in a strange sensation of sound and emotion that I just can’t really capture into words, no matter how hard I’ve tried. What I remember is opening my eyes and staring at my birth mother. From between her legs. I looking at her, and she at me. The image is brief and hazy. There’s not much in the way of color; just very dark colors, mixed with light. The memory fragment lasts for the length of a heartbeat. And it’s been with me always, although I didn’t obsess over it, growing up. It was a part of me and I can’t say that, growing up, I gave it a great deal of deep thought. I don’t think it was up until the 8th grade when I started to truly grasp where babies actually come from. Even as I questioned how soon it was possible for a newborn to open its eyes and see anything, how could I doubt that this bit of memory was real, given the perspective of staring from between the legs of my birth mom? That I dreamt it up? That my brain mixed up a dream for a reality?

Sometimes I’ve gone back and tried to relive/replay the fragment in my head; I want to recapture and try to write down and translate the feeling. At the same time, I’ve been apprehensive of replaying the memory so many times that rather than preserve it in its purity, my current mind begins to reshape and pollute it, by infusing analytical thoughts coming from who I am today. I fear contaminating and warping an actual memory into a false memory.

I am 100% confident that this memory is real. But there’s something else that I either remember- or falsely remember. And it has long troubled me. Because I cannot tell which it is. My logical mind tells me I had to have dreamt it as a child or made it up; yet I can’t shake the possibility that it might have happened.

I’ve never been to church (aside from a wedding here and there). My family did not raise me to be religious. My mom was Buddhist and would go through phases of chanting and even took me to some of her NSA meetings (Nichiren Shoshu of America- God how it tested my patience as a kid!); my dad grew up Catholic but is a staunch atheist (yet was never so hostile to religion that my family didn’t deny me the secular joys of celebrating Christmas and Easter holidays as American traditions). Aside from my mom’s weak attempts, neither of my parents ever pushed religious beliefs upon me.

Which brings me back to the other part of my memory fragment…

I really am not as confident on this next part- which actually precedes the part that I am 100% sure about.

Right before I opened my eyes and felt the slow rush of what I felt, I feel as if I had some sort of consciousness or self-awareness inside the womb. I understand how crazy that sounds, because it sounds crazy to me. And I really can’t describe it in more convincing terms. I just can’t. I’m almost as skeptical as those of you who are reading this probably are. But to make my story even more unbelievable, I feel as if right before I was born, someone was speaking to me. Telling me something. I do not know what; and I don’t even know if this is real or imagined. But it’s been with me forever, as well.

I can’t help but wonder if I was being told a purpose. I wonder if I’m living what I was meant to do; or if I have strayed…

I wonder if I’m trying to make sense and give meaning to something that never actually happened, other than a dream I had as a small child.

The problem is, when I try to look straight at it and focus upon it- to “enhance” a total recall, it becomes even more elusive to me. When I don’t focus so hard…I can almost taste these two experiences again. It’s almost like trying to focus on something that can only be seen in your peripheral vision; and so, can’t truly be focused upon.

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What motivated me to write this, is the release yesterday of a new book by Stephen C. Meyer: Darwin’s Doubt: The Explosive Origin of Animal Life and the Case for Intelligent Design

Meyer begins with what Darwin himself regarded as a troubling enigma, a subject of doubt and even some scientific distress. It is a mystery from which subsequent generations of Darwinists have sought to distract the public’s attention. Some 530 million years ago, in the event called the Cambrian explosion, there sprang suddenly into existence the majority of animal body plans (phyla) that have existed on Earth. The shallow seas of the Cambrian period abruptly teemed with diverse, exotic animals.

Evolutionary biologists and paleontologists have struggled to explain this epic event. Dr. Meyer takes his readers on a journey through scientific history, starting with the discovery of the Burgess Shale by Charles Walcott in 1909. He shows how failed attempts to give a satisfying Darwinian explanation of the Cambrian explosion have opened the door to increasingly profound questions, posed by evolutionary biologists themselves, leading to a far greater mystery: the origin of the biological information necessary to build the animals of the Cambrian and all the living creatures that have existed on Earth.

~~~

Meyer explains how post-Darwinian alternatives and adaptions of Darwin’s theory — including self-organizational models, evo-devo, neutral or nonadaptive evolution, natural genetic engineering, and others — fall short as well. He demonstrates that the weaknesses of orthodox evolutionary theory, when flipped over head-to-foot, are precisely the positive indications that point most persuasively to intelligent design.

Evolutionary biologists studying gene regulatory networks and fossil discontinuity, among other fields, have come tantalizingly close to reaching this conclusion themselves.

The Cambrian event, fundamentally, represents an information explosion, the first but not the last in the history of life. As no book has done before, Darwin’s Doubt spells out the implications of this fact.

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Where we come from and what the meaning of life is, are questions that have long haunted many of us, captured our imaginations, and helped define who we have chosen to become.

I don’t know a great deal about the related topics of evolution, Darwinism, creationism, intelligent design, and religious studies. As fascinating as these are, I just have not taken the time to research the beliefs and debates going on, that passionate people have on the matter.

I’m not sure that I would even find any answers there that could address my own personal…memory/experience, if that’s in fact what it is.

My adult mind has been conditioned to reject my memory- to be a strong skeptic of its veracity; yet, I can’t deny memory that feels like a part of the very fabric of my existence, sewn from the beginning. It’s the one thing that has really given my non-religious upbringing pause to consider that there is a very real possibility of a God; meaning; a rhyme….a reason; a higher purpose to all this madness we live in. That we’re not all here by accident. That consciousness means something. that there is a design to the universe and to life.

All I can do is try and keep an open mind to possibilities; and to recall the words of Shakespeare:

And therefore as a stranger give it welcome.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. But come…

-Hamlet, Act 1. Scene V

Examining the first flat screen...

Examining the first flat screen…

This entry was posted in Book Review, Religion, Science, Social Studies. Bookmark the permalink. Wednesday, June 19th, 2013 at 5:36 pm
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47 Responses to Where do we come from? And what’s the point?

  1. Nan G says: 1

    Your recollections reminded me of Marc Bolan’s song, Cosmic Dancer.
    Some of the lyrics:

    I danced myself out of the womb
    Is it strange to dance so soon
    I danced myself into the tomb
    But then again once more
    I danced myself out of the womb

    His song is on You Tube, some people don’t realize he has a line,

    I was dancing when I was aught

    (zero or pre-one-year-old)
    Most lyrics you find on line think he was just saying awww.

    So, others have had the strong sensation of recalling their time before they had words or cognitive thinking to add meaning to images.
    Most are too conditioned by society and so pretend they don’t recall such things.

    I won’t say you didn’t ”really” remember those things or not.
    Since they have remained stable all your life and vivid, who’s to say?
    And, if they add to your view of the meaning of having a life, then all power to your memory.
    You have been using your life well.

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  2. Kevin says: 2

    If your friend explained to you that he had always had vivid memories of being a human egg enveloping a human sperm and simultaneously being that same sperm getting enveloped by a human egg; and clearly recalled a subsequent experience of becoming whole as his sperm/egg chromosomes fused together… would you dismiss his memory of conception out of hand? Would your friend’s sincerity, conviction, previously established integrity, or demonstrated superb intellect influence your assessment of the story’s plausibility? If your friend had an emotional attachment to his recollection of conception; if this memory served as an inspiration to him throughout his life; if he asserted that for as long as he’d been alive, it was a constant source of comfort; if he had heart-wrenching tales of how the memories carried him through the greatest kinds of tragedies life has to throw… Would /that/ make you think maybe there was some truth to it? On hearing of his”memory”, would you give your friend your honest assessment, or would you say something like, “Who’s to say, we live in a strange world, maybe those are actual memories”?

    Anyway, that’s kind of where I am with your story. For what it’s worth, I don’t question the sincerity, integrity, or intelligence of people who relay vivid recollections of alien abductions, either. Nor of my brother-in-law, who just told me that his house is haunted by a young boy (whose ghost has been spotted wandering the hallways several times). Nor of my sister-in-law, who swears that her crystallized rocks communicate with her. And so on….

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  3. Skook says: 3

    Word, this is a fascinating post. There are exceptional minds among us. We tend to glamorize and reward those with athletic prowess, but occasionally, the most extraordinary people are walking next to us. Please explore this realm of memory. Your memory is as valid as any theory of evolution or transcendental theory I have read, and I have read way more on evolutionary theory than anyone would dare to guess.

    One of the most curious parts of evolutionary theory is the steadfast belief that the cradle of man was in Oldavai Gorge, one of the few places that could preserve hominid fossils for the Leakey family. How convenient of early man to start in one of the few places that would preserve his remains during this period. Being a former race track man, I’ d say the odds of that happening are at least a billion to one. Yet, every mandible, molar, or cranium fragment that has been found for the last eighty years has been irrefutable proof of hominid lines sor several million years.

    I have been studying fossils and right now, I am in the Canadian Rockies. The millions of years of almost sterile sedimentary deposits and the sudden dynamic explosion of life has been largely ignored by self-proclaimed men of science, it is an inconvenient fact.

    Although, I have a religious background and I have studied science, neither religion or science has been able t explain this mystery of life to my satisfaction.

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  4. Greg says: 4

    I sometimes think that when a vessel is ready, a spirit inhabits it.

    It’s really going to get interesting when our machines reach a level of such sophistication that a conscious awareness can move in and find self-expression through them. It’s probably going to happen before we’re ready for it, and before we’ve had enough time to consider the wisdom of our actions.

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  5. James Raider says: 5

    Word,
    Amazing memory, amazing story. The earliest I’d heard of was my daughter remembering being in a particular crib which reaches back to her being no more than 18 months old. Shheeesshhh. Meanwhile, recollecting my breakfast is a struggle.

    Your Soul provided you consciousness well before you were born, so I suspect that as some others have done, you may just be able to recall even further back beyond that voice. That will take some very special listening. Just go for it in confidence. Ignore scepticism and don’t second-guess yourself. Some years back I had an NDE during which some of my own broader questions, some similar to those you raise here, were answered. I’d be happy to share and you’re very welcome to drop me an email if you wish. I’m not pretending I have your answers but I did get some clarity on a few things. I should note that while I have studied religions, I do not follow any religion, though I don’t judge those who do – to each his/her own, whatever works.

    Darwin? Unfortunately many seem to have forgotten that his ‘finding’ is called a “Theory” of evolution and too many of them have turned the theory into a religion, even though you could drive a medium sized Buick through some of his “natural selection” thinking. Still, I really like the idea of a moment in time when whales got legs – it just stimulates fascinating visions.

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  6. mossomo says: 6

    My Pops had prenatal memories. And he wasn’t too much of a religious man. He simply recalled them as a matter of fact. IIRC – Much revolved around the question/arguments regarding free will. Wish I had tape recorded those musings which were usually only invoked during cross-country trips.

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  7. Wordsmith
    wow and wow, I love this POST so special, A favorite of mine,
    but unique
    THE QUESTION, is it true? or did I dreamed it?
    why do we doubt our own self? what made us unsure of our TRUTH the one we alone know,
    even that we never share it before, why?
    and why not believe our guts knowledge,
    than we become doubting everybody because of our own doubt,
    I am leaning to believe those extraordinary sentences I read, or someone tell me,
    except if I detect a purpose other accompanying it,
    my imagination is very fertile and my eyes have seen GOOD as the ultimate perfection done
    as if it was the natural thing every day actions, I dwell in it to understand the motivation of that PERSON,
    and did not find any outside motivation it was genuine,
    and I have seen the malefic instinct from another, installed in solidly in the BEING SOUL,
    no doubt no purpose aside of being bad with every pores of the skin,
    I always was a observer of other and it was a sport for me to try to figure things out,
    I did stop at one time, because I lost that time
    but this subject dealing with the DEEP feeling and memories we tend to discard
    and name them “MAYBE’S” fooling our own selves.
    is my favorite, I think it’s the quest of human to find their individuality more and more
    as the LEADERS try so hard to find us all the sheeps to lead to slaughter after they have lived and grown fat enough to eat,
    FANTASTIC POST WORDSMITH
    thank you.

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  8. Poppa_T says: 8

    As Skook said “this is a fascinating post”. I envy you, I can’t recall much of anything prior to my 4th or 5th year and constantly have to review subjects that I have previously mastered. I have heard of those who are blessed with an “Eidetic memory” and have dreamed of what it would be like not have to rely on post-it notes all over my walls, fridge and desk in order to remind myself of pertinent information.

    It may sound strange but as a Christian and a Biologist I have no problems reconciling my religious beliefs with my scientific training. Just as I feel no need to prove that a painting had a painter, I feel no need to prove that creation had a creator, it is self-evident… to me.

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  9. Skookum says: 9

    A couple of quotes from a man of science:

    The most beautiful and most profound experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. To know that what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their primitive forms – this knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness.

    A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty – it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man.

    Albert Einstein

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  10. Jenny Hatch says: 10

    You would prob enjoy the research of the Pre and Perinatal psychologists at their website HERE.

    I read David Chamberlains book Babies remember Birth when I was expecting my third child and it completely changed the way I mothered my children.

    Very cool post, and I believe your memories are/were real.

    Jenny Hatch
    WWW.JennyHatch.com

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  11. Aqua says: 11

    @Greg:

    I sometimes think that when a vessel is ready, a spirit inhabits it.

    My grandmother, on the Native American side, used to tell me that right before a baby is born, an Angel whispers “forget.”
    She was far removed from the reservation and talks of the Great Spirit, she was deeply Christian. It’s funny because I have had a recurring memory for as long as I can recall of being a sailor. Much like you Word, whenever I try to focus on that memory, it seems to grow more distant.

    It may sound strange but as a Christian and a Biologist I have no problems reconciling my religious beliefs with my scientific training.

    Couldn’t agree more.

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  12. plainjane31 says: 12

    One of our grandchildren was adopted from China…and since then, we have tried to maintain contact with other adoptive parents and children…One of stories that we heard about from one parent could have been about “early memory”(albeit not as early as here).
    One of the babies was extremely afraid of boxes… right from the start…The parents had been told that she had been found in a cardboard box, and they thought she probably had some recollection of being put into the box and then abandoned.
    .

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  13. Wordsmith
    could this mean that you have one start over other in brain enlightment.
    it might but you would not brag about it,
    but you must know it is a special gift, which very few can say,
    WHAT I remember is at 4 years old a bit before my mother died,
    playing with my three sisters just a bit older than me,
    and falling down the stairs once,[ which show still today , or you would think it would hey?]
    but you would not talk about it.
    bye

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  14. plainjane31 says: 14

    Could this be related to what is called “race memory”?

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  15. Wordsmith says: 15

    @Nan G: Thanks for the song tip.

    I won’t say you didn’t ”really” remember those things or not.
    Since they have remained stable all your life and vivid, who’s to say?
    And, if they add to your view of the meaning of having a life, then all power to your memory.
    You have been using your life well.

    Thanks for the support.

    @Kevin:

    Anyway, that’s kind of where I am with your story.

    Well, in my defense, I would assume there may be a stronger chance of consciousness going on in a person moments before he is birthed than when he is, in part, a sperm. ;)

    I do understand the skepticism. It sounds crazy to me and I’ve questioned the veracity of my memory many times over the years.

    @Skook:

    Word, this is a fascinating post. There are exceptional minds among us. We tend to glamorize and reward those with athletic prowess, but occasionally, the most extraordinary people are walking next to us. Please explore this realm of memory. Your memory is as valid as any theory of evolution or transcendental theory I have read, and I have read way more on evolutionary theory than anyone would dare to guess.

    Beautiful sentiments, Skook.

    Thank you.

    It sounds like you’d be someone who might have an interest in Stephen Meyer’s book(s). Hearing about his book was initially what prompted this post.

    @Greg: Are you talking about machines themselves achieving self-consciousness?

    @James Raider: Very interesting food for thought.

    Ignore scepticism and don’t second-guess yourself.

    That’s very hard to do. I can’t let go of that logical voice conditioned into me that this is all “crazy talk” and makes me doubt and question my own sense of memory.

    After all, memory does play tricks on us. Eyewitness testimonies are not always reliable; and recall can become distorted and influenced.

    I’ve questioned the purity of my memory and whether or not, over the years at some stage of my life, if it hadn’t become colored and contaminated by my own thoughts and analyses. I fear this, each time the memory is revisited.

    Some years back I had an NDE during which some of my own broader questions, some similar to those you raise here, were answered. I’d be happy to share and you’re very welcome to drop me an email if you wish. I’m not pretending I have your answers but I did get some clarity on a few things.

    I might one day hit you up on that. I do have a level of interest in one day seeking some professional guidance in helping me unlock the mystery of this.

    Darwin? Unfortunately many seem to have forgotten that his ‘finding’ is called a “Theory” of evolution and too many of them have turned the theory into a religion,

    Yes; and even Darwin seems to have had his doubts (and as highlighted by Meyers).

    @mossomo:

    My Pops had prenatal memories. And he wasn’t too much of a religious man. He simply recalled them as a matter of fact.

    Really?!? What exactly were his memories? How did he describe them?

    I’ve never known or heard of anyone else having memories this early. I’ve never researched or even yet Googled the possibility of “prenatal memory”. You’d think I would have done so by now; but I’ve put it off.

    @ilovebeeswarzone: Thanks for your comment, bees.

    I do have an open mind, I think; but society’s skepticism of the spiritual world and the fantastical is very much conditioned into me.

    If these weren’t my own memories, I’d be highly skeptical and suspicious. And even as they are my own memories, I do doubt myself to some degree.

    @Poppa_T:

    I have heard of those who are blessed with an “Eidetic memory” and have dreamed of what it would be like not have to rely on post-it notes all over my walls, fridge and desk in order to remind myself of pertinent information.

    I had to Google “eidetic memory”.

    I’d love to know what a photographic memory would be like.

    I have a decent memory, but aside from some unusual long-term memory recollections, I don’t feel it to be unusually strong.

    Have you heard of hyperthymesia?

    It may sound strange but as a Christian and a Biologist I have no problems reconciling my religious beliefs with my scientific training. Just as I feel no need to prove that a painting had a painter, I feel no need to prove that creation had a creator, it is self-evident… to me.

    I don’t think Science and religion necessarily have to be at odds with one another.

    @Skookum: Good Einstein quote.

    @Jenny Hatch: Thank you so much for the link and for your thoughts. I just have not gotten around to doing my own research- even though this is a very significant part of me! I’ve just always held it off on the back burner.

    I’ve never seriously looked into the possibility that mine might not be so unique an experience after all; that there are others with prenatal memories.

    @Aqua:

    My grandmother, on the Native American side, used to tell me that right before a baby is born, an Angel whispers “forget.”

    Aqua…that seriously gave my soul the chills just now.

    She was far removed from the reservation and talks of the Great Spirit, she was deeply Christian. It’s funny because I have had a recurring memory for as long as I can recall of being a sailor. Much like you Word, whenever I try to focus on that memory, it seems to grow more distant.

    This resonates with me. Thanks for sharing that.

    @plainjane31:

    One of the babies was extremely afraid of boxes… right from the start…The parents had been told that she had been found in a cardboard box, and they thought she probably had some recollection of being put into the box and then abandoned.

    I’m inclined to believe that this probably is the relationship. I’m sure a number of things we experience from early on affects and shapes us for the remainder of our lives.

    @ilovebeeswarzone:

    Wordsmith
    could this mean that you have one start over other in brain enlightment.
    it might but you would not brag about it,

    Haha…oh, bees! My brain is far from enlightened! I have so many deficiencies, I would hope that my positive traits balance those out!

    @plainjane31:

    Could this be related to what is called “race memory”?

    I haven’t heard much about this; but before I Google it, I’m assuming this has to do with inheriting ancestral experiences? Is memory passed on through the genes? Past life experiences?

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  16. Wordsmith says: 16

    Whoa:

    When does memory begin? We can’t consciously call up images from our infancy, but we surely learn important, lasting associations at very early ages. New work suggests this type of memory begins even in the womb.

    In a study published in July in Child Development, researchers from the Netherlands reported short-term memory in 30- to 38-week-old fetuses. First they put a vibrating, honking device on the abdomens of 93 preg­nant women. The fetuses quickly “habituated”—that is, they figured out that the noise was not dangerous. When they heard it again 10 minutes later, they did not squirm and their heart rates did not escalate. “It’s like getting used to a New York train sta­tion,” says lead author J. G. Nijhuis, a professor of obstetrics at Maastricht University in the Netherlands. “It is a learning capability to distinguish safe from unsafe stimuli. It is a primitive form of memory.”

    The 34-week-old fetuses even recalled the sound four weeks later. “What this study clearly says is at least beginning at 30 weeks and pos­sibly before that, the fetal brain is starting to lay down short-term memo­ries and might even be laying down some long-term memories,” says Rahil Briggs, director of Healthy Steps at Montefiore Medical Center and assis­tant professor of pediatrics at Albert Einstein College of Medicine. “This is a sensitive period of development.”

    Fetuses habituate in other ways, too. Substance-abusing moms give birth to drug-addicted babies. A study found that the babies of mothers who watch a popular Spanish-language soap opera while pregnant calm down when they hear the show’s theme music. And anecdotally, some dads who read to fetuses in the womb think their babies are born recognizing their voices, says pediatrician Tanya Remer Altmann, a spokesperson for the American Academy of Pediatrics.

    The bottom line: be conscientious around the baby-to-be. “The environ­ment in utero, and extra utero, is very important,” says pediatrician Dimitri Christakis, director of the Center for Child Health, Behavior and Develop­ment at Seattle Children’s Hospital. After all, the brain triples in size in the first two years of life. And perhaps even younger fetuses develop memories—researchers will investigate that pos­sibility next.

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  17. Wordsmith says: 17

    Prenatal and Birth Memories

    Some young children report memories from before or during their birth. In the case of reported memories before birth, some describe being aware of events that occurred when they were in the womb, while others talk about events from another realm or heaven.

    Occasionally, young children describe parts of their birth process that their parents say they were not told about. While current understandings of infant memory do not allow for such memories to be possible, some children describe them nonetheless.

    We would like to hear from families with reports such as these. See Contacting Us.

    Hmmm….should I contact them? :)

    Contact link isn’t working. :(

    Okay, this works.

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  18. Wordsmith says: 18

    It’s comforting to know I’m not alone- it makes me feel less obligated to second-guess my own memories. But this is still kinda freaky to the skeptic in me:

    In the “People Of The Womb”, Richard Blinn explores what he sees as a void in people’s understanding of the nature and experience of prenatal life. The life we experience after birth is gradually built upon the seemingly invisible foundation of our experiences from the womb. Making this seemingly invisible foundation visible is a constant theme of the book in which he draws upon his own womb memories.

    The author grew up with these womb memories not quite knowing what his memories were. No one talked about the things he remembered and he saw no reflection of them in the life he was living. He felt very isolated and alone. Anecdotally he would hear of others having such memories but it always seemed as if it was some unknown someone somewhere else; not a flesh and blood person that he could talk to and interact with.

    The “People Of The Womb” is his offering to the world intended to create a wider conversation and an understanding of both our experience of life in the womb and the fundamental influence it has on the humanity we all experience.

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  19. Wordsmith
    I woke up crying because I thought of those aborted babies,
    done by people who lost their soul,
    hearing that PLANPARENTHOOD is now given the statue of importance to have MILLIONS OF DOLLAR by OBAMA,
    like an animal butcher having the cattle or pigs in line on hook and cutting their throats as the cable move in front of him,

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  20. Skookum says: 20

    Word, I’d like to read your opinion, either through commentary or email, on this particular issue. I am the child of a mother who smoked and drank, even during pregnancy. People assume such children would be prone to addiction, but I am the last person to have weaknesses for abuse. I find prescription pain medication worse than the pain except in the most extreme cases. I hate tobacco. I drink occasionally to relieve muscle pain, but in moderation, and with indifference.

    I have short term memory loss, but I attribute this to a bull’s kick as a teenager, a trauma so powerful I still can feel my brain moving in my skull, but it has been improving over time. I seem to be a walking contradiction, but if the child’s mind is so sensitive in the womb, it must react violently to the stimuli of alcohol and tobacco. These are questions that have plagued me during most of my life. I haven’t made a valiant effort to overcome addictive behaviors, they just don’t exist in my psyche.

    Over the years, I have watched acquaintances become overwhelmed with various addictions, not necessarily illicit substances, most of them have been consumed by their addictions.

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  21. Wordsmith
    we heard our family say: hey you , I was born before you,
    I know things you don’t so don’t try to teach me.
    usualy it is a parent talking to a super bright son or daughter
    who is not trying to show off but only express a comment which is so strickingly smart ,
    it leave the elder mute with only trying to save his right of elder,
    bye

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  22. Wordsmith
    where do you order the book of STEPHEN?
    don’t say AMAZONE, I want another one,
    I had books orderd with AMAZONE before , but now they want the email and passwords,
    they use to ask only the mailing address,
    can I order direct from STEPHEN?
    bye

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  23. Wordsmith says: 23

    bees,

    His website offers a few options (including Amazon).

    Certainly the elderly should be shown respect by the younger generation. That said, I’ve known older people who have essentially quit growing and learning. I’ve met gymnastics coaches who are stuck teaching technique that might have been on the cutting edge in the 70s, but is obsolete today. And they refuse to learn, adapt, and evolve and stay current. Just because someone might be younger than they are, does not mean the younger person hasn’t acquired experience that the older person can benefit from.

    Hope I understood your comment, because I have no idea how it relates to the topics being discussed.

    @Skookum:

    People assume such children would be prone to addiction, but I am the last person to have weaknesses for abuse.

    Skook, I have no training to be able to give you any kind of educated answer.

    I don’t know what kind of external stimuli and nutrients affect the unborn, nor to what effect.

    As an aside, my grandpa was a notorious drinker and smoker. My dad was the eldest of 8 siblings and stayed away from drinking and smoking. His younger siblings, not so much.

    ReplyReply
  24. James Raider says: 24

    @Skookum: #20,

    . . . . if the child’s mind is so sensitive in the womb, it must react violently to the stimuli of alcohol and tobacco. These are questions that have plagued me during most of my life.

    Heavy question Skook. One that seems to confound science which almost exclusively relies on the scientific method, confident that it stands on ‘proof’, which in this case includes genetics.

    My sense is that we generally discount the energy of the Soul, and Souls have different potentialities. In a situation as you describe, although your corporeal self was impacted by chemicals you ingested via the umbilical cord, strength of Spirit overran the tendencies. I’d guess that this strength has manifested itself throughout your life and continues to do so – you probably describe it using terms such as ‘determination’. Your Soul will give you those answers you’re looking for. At the cost of appearing impertinent here’s another note, . . . my sense is that our Souls chose our parents, and that your Soul chose your Mom – regardless her material frailties, which we all have, that bond is permanent and one filled with Gratitude, and I might guess that you also Love her immeasurably regardless.

    Our intellects too often stifle our intuitive capacities. When we’re very young, those capacities are vibrant and we give them room, then life comes along and the needs and wants cloud our view of the Soul within. Sometimes it takes effort to reach back through that haze.

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  25. Wordsmith
    yes you understood well,
    I was raising the point that many younger are outsmarting elders not to insult them but when they exchange conversation, and some elder or parent get frustrated because he cannot grab the answer and find a way to shut the young and make him feel low , instead of making him or her like they will go far
    in life, because they show smart answers,
    yes I will try to get the book from the emails I saw in my search,
    I almost got it from GOOGLE until I realize they had a web reading book or a gadget you buy to read books, which I don’t have , but prefer a hard cover book, and AMAZONE got me stuck somewhere,
    and I gave up.
    thank you for the info.

    ReplyReply
  26. James Raider
    wow, am I glad to be here so to read such truth which I believe in,
    but I find myself humble while reading it’s explain so easy for me to grasp it,
    I have so many life teaching happenings which nobody would believe, except me,
    and I find you all have also some kind of look into the realm,
    we all do ,I guess but we don’t all notice it as extraordinary, some will look at it as normal,
    but as time go by , they will remember as a unique event which never re-occur.
    but when we look at it as it happen it is even better, because I feel the power of GOD the CREATOR
    and protector of my life at that special time,
    thank you

    ReplyReply
  27. Skookum says: 27

    @James Raider: Thanks.

    ReplyReply
  28. Houston says: 28

    I’ll share my little bit.

    I have three memories from my early childhood, baby/toddler time.

    The earliest memory I have is of being laid down to rest in a back room. I have no idea where it was or why we were there. I can only remember being in the room and being able to see out a window to a tree in the yard by an old road. I have no idea how old I was although I believe I was a baby then. Definitely not coming out of the womb though.

    The next memory I have is of being in the kitchen with my mother. She was cooking and I was playing with something. I was very happy. My father came into the kitchen and them next thing I knew there was a crash of something breaking and my parents began arguing. I was shocked by the sudden noise and afraid as my parents yelled at each other. I remember my mother coming to get me as the argument went on.

    I have a memory of pictures being taken on the front stoop of our little house. I was a toddler then and it was a happy memory.

    I recall another set of pictures being taken with me on the hood of a car with my father.

    I don’t really recall much of anything else before they divorced. I know I was very young when they did.

    My brother-in-law remembers the babies in the crib next to him in the hospital after he was born. He also remembered my wife pinching him when he came home from the hospital. This is something she didn’t recall doing until she was hypnotized as a volunteer for a comedy show.

    For what it’s worth, I believe you. Cherish those memories and those who don’t believe, it’s their loss.

    Those are the only ones I really have

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  29. Wordsmith says: 29

    @Houston: Thanks for sharing.

    I remember a time in South Carolina (I was perhaps 5 or 6) when my parents got into a seriously heated argument. I was so scared. I don’t know what they were fighting about, but I had never seen them fight like that (nor since).

    You’re making me think of memories that I haven’t played back in my mind in quite some time.

    It reminds me, too, of a quote by the late actor Brandon Lee (he might have been quoting from something he had read):

    Because we do not know when we will die, we get to think of life as an inexhaustable well. Yet everything happens a certain number of times, and a very small number, really. How many more times will you remember a certain afternoon of your childhood, some afternoon that is so deeply a part of your being that you can’t even conceive of your life without it? Perhaps four or five times more. Perhaps not even that. How many times will you watch the full moon rise? Perhaps twenty. And yet it all seems limitless.

    There was a time when I drank water from a clear red plastic cup, noticing the fly floating inside too late, and swallowing it down with the water. I was perhaps 4.

    I have quite a lot of childhood memories, actually.

    Toddler-age….At the moment I recall my mom watching and cheering me on as I stood up on my feet. I don’t know if I took my first step or not or if it was my first time standing on my feet; I just remember feeling a sense of monumental accomplishment.

    I also think I remember a moment of being sat up on a bed with my parents waving at me, trying to draw my attention. I feel as though I was just starting to notice who they were- like maybe I had been taken home for the first time. I just don’t know; the memory is there, but I’m only guessing as to the circumstances without really knowing, trying to fill in the blank context.

    I have a memory of pictures being taken on the front stoop of our little house. I was a toddler then and it was a happy memory.

    I recall another set of pictures being taken with me on the hood of a car with my father.

    Do you have these photos? Or have you seen them? Because I think I have retained some memories thanks to photos I had seen early on; so it’d reinforce in my mind, recent events, subsequently being stored away into my long-term memory.

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  30. Houston
    fantastic, to read your memories, it show how the babies get affected
    by the quarrel of their parents, and if it’s often , it can hurt them for life too.
    testimony like that is stimulating the readers to also try to remember the earlyest memory,
    the first one, and few have the baby’s stage memory,
    so you are lucky to have that priviledge,
    bye

    ReplyReply
  31. Redteam says: 31

    @Skook: I believe it is possible that your memories are real ones. I believe that some memories from your parents may actually be passed to you. Many talents and abilities are certainly passed from your parents/ancestors, why not memories. Maybe the talents and abilities are actually memories of having performed the same deed as your parent. Both my brother and I have many abilities that are/were certainly inherited from our father, who’s to say it’s not just the memories that our father had of having done these things that were passed to us. Color of hair/eyes, height, etc can all be passed down, no reason memories can’t be also.

    ReplyReply
  32. Wordsmith says: 32

    Genetic memory theories: Can we remember our ancestors’ lives?:

    Research into the nature of DNA has revealed that this material within each cell of our bodies has important implications for who each one of us is, on many levels.

    In addition to determining our physical characteristics, our vulnerabilities to certain diseases, and maybe even our personality, is it possible that the DNA helix holds some of the important memories of our ancestors?

    Theories that suggest that we can tap into the deep nature of DNA to uncover ancient memories are not new. In the 1960s, some psychological researchers claimed that there may be keys that unlock our DNA, revealing experiences of generations of our relatives who lived long before our present time.

    ~~~

    Because learning about situations that are necessary for survival of a species are probably saved as a kind of unconscious genetic memory, those fundamental human experiences could be deep down in our DNA somewhere.

    Let’s say you have always had a significant fear of bears since you were a child. Even Smokey the Bear and other friendly Hollywood bears could not convince you to regard bears with anything but anxiety and fearful feelings.

    Maybe it is possible that deep, deep within your DNA memory banks, your great-great-great-great-grandmother or great-great-great-great-grandfather had a very bad experience with a bear two hundred years ago. Maybe they saw someone be killed by a bear. Maybe they had to climb a tree to save themselves from being eaten by a bear.

    Would a life-changing experience like this, resulting in knowledge very useful for survival, possibly be encoded in the DNA and passed on to future generations and you?

    If there were a way to go deep down into your mind and consciousness, and into your genetic history, maybe through some kind of altered state like a dream or through some kind of trigger, could you recall and experience that event?

    Could you relive and re-experience in some way great-great-great-great grandma’s or grandpa’s harrowing and hair-raising close encounter with a hungry bear two hundred years ago?

    What about some similar “peak experience” or life-changing event of an ancient relative five hundred years ago? What about five thousand years ago? After all, we know that at least some part of that history is inside all of us, right in the DNA in every cell of our body, right now.

    ~~~

    Many genes remain a mystery and their purpose is unknown.

    Sometimes, these mystery genes are called “junk DNA.” According to some researchers, this may be an inaccurate label. Because the purpose and nature of this DNA material is not understood, it certainly does not mean it is useless junk.

    As is often the case in scientific discovery, the more we know, the more we realize how little we know. Each question answered can raise many new questions.

    For some, our human overconfidence and even arrogance can sometimes trick us into believing that we know all of the answers.

    However, in the field of genetics research, there seems to be so much that is not known, that for an open-minded person, these kinds of theories about deep DNA memories cannot be ruled-out.

    To conduct our own personal research and to find out for ourselves, maybe all we need to do is listen to our inner DNA.

    Listen to the voices, feelings, sights and experiences of our ancestors. Their lives, joys and fears are within us. In that way, they are with us always.

    on the Trail of Inherited Memories

    There are scientific studies exploring whether the history of our ancestors is somehow a part of us, inherited in unexpected ways through a vast chemical network in our cells that controls genes, switching them on and off. At the heart of the field, known as epigenetics, is the notion that genes have memory and that the lives of our grandparents — what they breathed, saw and ate — can directly affect us decades later.

    Recent studies in Sweden explore the effects of famine and abundant harvests on the health of descendants four generations later. That is not exactly what I am looking for: I’m intrigued by the notion that generations pass on particular survival skills and an unconscious sense of identity that stands the test of centuries.

    The French psychologist Anne Ancelin Schützenberger, now in her 90s, has spent decades studying what she calls the ancestor syndrome — that we are links in a chain of generations, unconsciously affected by their suffering or unfinished business until we acknowledge the past.

    In the 1990s Dina Wardi, a psychotherapist in Jerusalem, worked with the children of Holocaust survivors and developed the theory that survivor parents often designated certain children as “memorial candles” who took on the mission of serving as a link to preserve the past and connect the future. The children of survivors who actively struggled against the Nazis, she found, had a compulsive ambition to achieve.

    A similar strategy existed among the forced converts, the Anusim: Usually older women were entrusted with passing on information about their secret identity to particular younger family members. In our family, the historian was my great-aunt Luz, whose name means light in Spanish. I lived for a summer in her house in San José, Costa Rica, but she never confided in me, and regrettably I was not curious enough about our past to ask questions.

    But recently, my cousin Rosie told me that she had made it her mission to question Aunt Luz at a family gathering. Given our family penchant for secrecy, she taped the conversation with a hidden recorder.

    “Luz told me that our family came from Spain,” Rosie said. “She asked me, ‘Has your mother ever told you that we are Sefarditas?’ Of course, when I brought it up with my mother, she refused to talk.”

    My fantasy, of course, was that I could somehow tap these ancestral memories. I have recently made the acquaintance of another Carvajal in Spain, an actor who remembers that even though he was raised Catholic he always insisted to his mother that he was Jewish. He said he started making the claim when he was about 6 years old.

    In the video game Assassin’s Creed, fiction provides a solution to this kind of riddle: Gamers plunge into the main character’s genetic memory archives to share vivid recollections of Jerusalem and Italy during the Renaissance.

    Reality is even stranger. Dr. Darold A. Treffert, a psychiatrist in Wisconsin, maintains a registry of about 300 “savants” who through a head injury or dementia acquire skills they never learned. Conceivably, he says, those skills, like music, mathematics, art and calendar calculating, were buried deep in their brains. He calls it genetic memory, or “factory-installed software,” a huge reservoir of dormant knowledge that can emerge when a damaged brain rewires itself to recover from injuries.

    “How is this possible?” Dr. Treffert asked in an interview. “The only way that knowledge can be there is through genetic transmission.

    “In the animal kingdom, we accept without question migration patterns that birds are born with, which they never learned. The monarch butterfly makes a trip from Canada to Mexico to a 23-acre spot, and they take three generations to get there.”

    ReplyReply
  33. Wordsmith says: 33

    It’s just fascinating to speculate, even if it’s unlikely.

    Remembering from before birth:

    Is it possible to inherit our ancestors’ memories? The answer is not black and white. It depends on what we mean by “memory.” The story of the movie is farfetched: there is no evidence or credible scientific theory suggesting that we can inherit specific episodic memories of events that our ancestors experienced. In other words, it’s highly unlikely that you will suddenly remember your great-great-grandfather’s wedding day or your great-great-grandmother’s struggle in childbirth.

    But the idea of inherited, or genetic, memory of a different kind has some degree of plausibility. There are many different types of memory. Episodic memory is memory of specific events, such as your memory of your last birthday party. Semantic memory is memory of information that is presented as a fact, for example, the fact that Obama is the current president, that “ranarian means frog-like or that 31 is a prime number. Finally, procedural memory is memory of how to do things, for example, your memory of how to swim or change a light bulb.

    It is uncontroversial that procedural memory can be inherited. Babies know how to suck without being taught how to do it. This is a kind of procedural memory, and it is clearly genetic. The central, and much more controversial, question is whether episodic and semantic memory can be inherited.

    Semantic memory seems to be the most likely candidate to be, at least partially, genetic. Prominent philosophers, psychologists and linguists throughout history have thought that semantic memory is not always acquired through learning. The great ancient philosopher Plato thought that souls that are not instantiated in a human being are part of a Platonic heaven. In the Platonic heaven, the souls acquire Platonic universal ideas (for example, piety, justice, moral goodness). When a soul is instantiated in a newborn, the baby learns these universals by “looking behind” the veil of physical reality and finding the truths in her soul.

    ReplyReply
  34. Redteam says: 34

    @Wordsmith: A lot of mysterious things have occurred over the years. I have certainly had memories of things that I know I never really experienced. Other people have told me of the same thing. I’ve always felt as if it were ‘inherited’ memory. Will never know.

    ReplyReply
  35. Wordsmith
    I believe it too,
    otherwise why do we know something they knew,
    like skills to make a beautiful thing with tools,
    or other example like thoughts of unexplained knowledge,
    AH JUST GENETIC, yes but maybe genetic of mind also
    not only of physical and matter, but purely mind,
    thank you for that too,

    ReplyReply
  36. some YEARS ago, I took a primary lesson in STAINGLASS ,
    I needed a SHADEfor my lamp I was given from older family aunt.
    I fell in love and was captivated by the colors of glass under the light,
    as time when on, I read a book and capture a note saying, you must think of your project and see it all done in your mind,
    and I thought how can I achieve that , IT can’t be, but the bug had come in already,
    and WHEN I bought a book on STAINGLASS with the picture of a LOUIE TIPHANY LAMP,
    I started to lokk and think ,
    oh my, I”D LOVE TO MAKE IT, but it’s so impossible for me, my ignorance,
    time went by and my mind was trying to choose the glass colors looking at it under the light,
    one day I saw them in my mind, I could not believe it, and start to make my LOUIE TIPHANY DESIGN
    in my mind on a flat surface, step by step, and I began to physically do it , it took me ayear to finish it
    in my own time, and it took form and I couldn’t believe the processing I went through to achieve it,
    did I dwell into LOUIE”S mind still alive in the limbo or realm, or MEMORIES? who knows,
    could it be that the mind reserved is forever held in a pool where we the livings have the possibility to dwell as many times we want, and on as many different subjects we need,

    ReplyReply
  37. on FOX , I just saw a doctor neuro surgeon who claim strongly
    to have gone to heaven and back,
    he had some very rare sicknes of the brain which had killed his brain and recover
    to tell his story, name : PROOF OF HEAVEN.
    sound very interesting to read.

    ReplyReply
  38. @Redteam: #34,

    I have certainly had memories of things that I know I never really experienced. . . . . I’ve always felt as if it were ‘inherited’ memory.

    A big challenge is quieting our egos so that we may ‘listen’ to our Souls. I suspect that if you were to listen to your own Soul, you might be surprised at the knowledge which would surface, providing you with insight on your own knowledge, knowledge not evidently gained from this particular life in this particular lifetime, that you are aware of.

    My sense is that some of what we allocate to ‘genetic memory’, is residuals coming forth, surfacing from the powerful energy of our Souls.

    ReplyReply
  39. Wordsmith says: 39

    But to make my story even more unbelievable, I feel as if right before I was born, someone was speaking to me. Telling me something. I do not know what; and I don’t even know if this is real or imagined. But it’s been with me forever, as well.

    I can’t help but wonder if I was being told a purpose. I wonder if I’m living what I was meant to do; or if I have strayed…

    Since reading some other people’s descriptions of claiming to have prenatal memory, and talk of how playing music and sounds affect a baby before being born, I wonder if maybe the voice I seem to remember (if it happened at all and my experience really is being recalled by memory) isn’t something so mystical as God or something telling me my purpose in life (just my adult spiritual side trying to give it sense and meaning), but perhaps something as simple and grounded in logic as perhaps me overhearing conversations going on outside the womb- perhaps the doctor talking?

    Hmm….

    ReplyReply
  40. mossomo says: 40

    @Wordsmith:

    My father was a piece of work. He wasn’t a religious man. But damn. He had this vibe. One episode, he kind of lost it and had to call my sister/his daughter (out of state). This is before cell, text or instant messaging. And she just so happened to have discovered a dead body that day.

    Another time, I was being a punk child, teasing him, “Who you gonna call? Ghostbusters!!!” This is after he told me the front wooden door opened but the screen door didn’t. He was telling me, somethings amiss. I remember amiss because that wasn’t part of vocabulary at the time and the word caught my attention. And he got all crazy paranoid. Another attention grabber for a young child. But then the next morning his aunt called saying his uncle had passed away.

    My father’s tour d’force: he passed away right around a full moon. And this stupid little trinket cat with a hat, a small ceramic kitten in a Christmas stocking cap with a chipped ear I broke that I bought my parents at the age of maybe eight would chime by itself right around the full moon and this recurred for months. And I had asked him for a sign before passing. My mom wasn’t a fan and packed it away after five months of it.

    All that said, he told me he remembered having a debate or questions, not an argument, regarding the nature of free will and the human choice to sin. I wished I had engaged him more on this as an adult. But it was one of those thing so left field, it’s hard to not discount.

    ReplyReply
  41. WY MAKING DOUBTS ON WHAT HAPPEN TO US IN LIFE WHICH IS HARD TO UNDERSTAND,
    it lead me to that television show about relativity from that men in the wheel chair , tell me his name,
    he is BRITISH AND DWELL IN SCIENCE LIKE IT AND CALCULATIONS ON EXTRAORDINARY
    UNSEEN SPEED OF TIME, WHICH HAD ME FEEL MY IGNORANCE THAN, EVEN AS I COULD NOT
    UNDERSTAND, I GRAB SOME WORDS AND BUILD UP ON IT IN MY FERTILE MIND,
    AND THAT WAS COMING FROM A DISABLED PERSON WHICH HAD A MIND SO SUPERIOR OVER THE
    HUMANKIND, HE HAD CAPTURE ANOTHER SPEED OF TIME WE CANNOT SEE, BUT IS REAL,
    DID I BELIEVED HIM? YOU BET I DID, AND , AS I TYPE, TRYING TO REMEMBER THE FUNNY WORDS
    HE USED TO EXPLAIN. I CANNOT REMEMBER THEM AT THIS TIME, BUT YOU KNOW THEM.

    ReplyReply
  42. the POWER OF THE PEOPLE OF EGYPT,
    YOU HAVE WON, YOU HAVE PROVEN YOUR POWER BY STAYING TOGETHER,
    AND YOUR FAITHFUL MILITARY HEARD YOUR DEMANDS ,
    MANY OF YOU DIED AND GOT WOUNDED, TO STAND FOR YOUR RIGHT,
    IT’S WITH EMOTION THAT I CONGRATULATE YOU,
    LET IT BE A LESSON TO NEVER FORGET HERE ALSO.
    PRAISE THE MILITARY FOR STANDING WITH THE PEOPLE,
    EGYPT YOU ARE TEACHING A LESSON TO THE WHOLE WORLD,
    YOU DESERVE TO BE CALLED MIGHTY, AND POSES THE WISDOM TO KNOW ,
    WHAT WISDOM IS ALL ABOUT.

    ReplyReply
  43. Wordsmith says: 43

    @mossomo: Thanks for sharing your story about your father. Certainly strange, unexplainable “coincidences”.

    I wonder what the future of humanity may hold as far as expansion of our understanding of the universe and our place in it? If one day we will discover a “new kind of science” or way of explaining phenomena and events that currently eludes science and religious explanations to our satisfaction, today? If one day we will know for certain that there is life before and after life and death? That our consciousness/soul/spirit will live on in some form? And that it won’t just be a matter of faith, but of actual knowing and certainty?

    reincarnation
    ReplyReply
  44. Wordsmith says: 44

    @Wordsmith:

    a quote by the late actor Brandon Lee (he might have been quoting from something he had read)

    Passage from The Sheltering Sky, a 1949 Paul Bowles novel

    ReplyReply
  45. Wordsmith
    It is so true, and a good thought of the day
    thank you

    ReplyReply
  46. Wordsmith and plainjane31
    a thought came while reading your first comment,could it be connected with the link so strong between mother and son or daughter at the nano time of separation from her body,the print in the mind,
    maybe the first print of that baby’s mind, AND THE BOX SHE WAS PUT IN MOST LIKELYEVEN FILLOF LACES AND SILK WOULD BE THE LASTING MEMORY OF HER SEPARATION,
    AND WORDSMITH THE SAME MUST BE ALSO YOUR FIGHT TO KEEP THE PICTURE OF YOUR MOTHER,
    WHEN THE SEPARATION OFFER YOU ALSO A WILL TO KEEP HER WITHIN YOU
    which have end up being adopted by another family might have been enhance because of the baby refusal
    to forget that first vision even more because gone FOREVER,
    WE KNOW THAT TO SEPARATE THE BABY FROM THE MOTHER IS A BIG STRESS AND ENHANCE WITH THE LENGHT OF TIME OF THE SEPARATION,
    having brought a first challenge so early to strugle to keep that vision of his mother,
    I SAW MY MOTHER DEAD IN BED I WAS 4 YEARS OLD, MY SISTERS WHERE CRYING, I WAS NOT, BUT
    AFTERWARD I WAS PLACE IN AN ORPHENAGE SEPARATED FROM MY OTHER SISTERS,
    AND BECAUSE THIS POST I REMEMBER CAPTURING THE FACE OF MY MOTHER BEFORE GOING TO SLEEP, EVERY NIGHTS SEEKING IT ONLY HER FACE,
    I JUST NOW RECALL THAT,
    HOW STRANGE

    ReplyReply
  47. James Raider
    it gave me a thought,
    that energy you mention,
    could she be borroughed at will from a pool of energy in the cosmos filled of
    all the energy which is saved from all human who lived and died, but left their brain power untouch,
    in there somewhere, could it be the dark matter which the scientist try so hard to understand ?
    bye

    ReplyReply

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