DrJohn may be right. Here is Drudge editor Joseph Curl:
Hearing from some top Hill sources that IRS scandal about to explode. Low-level agency workers miffed at being blamed. About to return fire.
— Joseph Curl (@josephcurl) June 3, 2013
One source says there’s a paper trail to DC, and some who were worried from the get-go kept a paper trail. Wouldn’t say WH, but said ‘high.’
— Joseph Curl (@josephcurl) June 3, 2013
You piss off enough people some are going to talk. Charles makes the point that trying to argue the White House is not involved because it “would of been stupid” doesn’t hold water. There have been a lot of stupid conspiracies throughout history:
[youtube]http://youtu.be/5LM9GJZJi94[/youtube]
See author page
Curt, we both know how it works… bust one and flip ’em, up the ladder to the next one. If ya put enough pressure on, eventually we can get up as far as it goes… I think that’s why Holder is so well protected, he knows where all of Obama’s skeletons are. And I think we both know if Holder got walked out in cuffs, and shown enough to convince him life is a long time to spend in prison, he would ask for the Bob Barker treatment… “let’s make a deal!” That’s what we need, a couple of good solid flips.
You think they’ll flip? These are true believers, American Taliban, they subverted the election because they believe in ‘by any means necessary’. No ones gonna flip.
@DismalDave: I think there’s a good chance, when they recognize the elite life is over, and there’s only one way out of prison. With a strong enough case, you would actually be surprised how easy it gets, been there, done it with hardcore gang-bangers.
As a culture in the bureaucracy of the IRS, I’m sure there are true believers and there’s great resistance to flipping the whole thing at once,…… but when you’re the one being frogmarched off to the Buena Vista Social Club, I suspect you learn to sing quick enough…when it’s your wife and kids that will be left behind, and your personal behind that has a whole new future ahead of it…individuals do flip.
If any of them are convicted, and the president is still in charge, he will pardon all of them.
At this point, is the Bus wheels even touching the ground anymore from so many being thrown under it?
Leftist Groups Enjoy IRS Tax-Exempt Status While Tea Party Suffers
Former IRS Chief’s Wife Works for Leftist Campaign Finance Reform Group
Public Campaign gets its cash from labor unions like AFL-CIO, AFSCME, SEIU, and Move On.
Sen. Ted Cruz laid the big stick out in the open. He said the IRS should be done away with. Do away with the IRS and go to a simple tax so no agency can have the kind of power they have gathered. Whether or not this will ever happen, the possible loss of campaign money and political influence will add a lot of pucker factor and urgency to “solving” the IRS problem.
those fired get their pay just the same, SO
start by firing the UNIONS, get them out of GOVERNMENT PUBLIC JOBS,
IT”S THE PEOPLE WHO ARE THE PAYMASTERS AND SHOULD DECIDE ON THEIR EARNING AND BENEFICES,
through their ELECTED representatives, NOT THE UNIONS
the GOVERNMENT DON’t need the UNIONS for employees,
and see how OBAMA does without his thugs around and his HOLDER to protect him, he will loose all,
the thing is they both rub their back,
OBAMA is so much unable to lead, that he start AGENCIES,
on top of AGENCIES, to do his job, and they all cover each other back
starting WITH OBAMA, on the dole of THE PEOPLE, with millions of PUBLIC EMPLOYEES GETTING PAID SO MUCH MORE THAN THEIR JOBS DEMAND,
because of THE UNIONS demand, SPECIALLY AT THIS TIME
of rough time for the CITIZENS having to meet
their monthly end,
THE SAME PEOPLE they took out of the decisions making,
HELL they even shit ON THE PEOPLE with their ARROGANT ACTIONS, this is the biggest attack on THE PEOPLE
never seen before in the history of AMERICA,
A BIG SHAME for AMERICA,
@Smorgasbord: Ya can’t pardon someone who hasn’t been convicted yet… it’s a delicate and tricky thing, but the way it works is you build the cases as far up the ladder as it goes, then start the trials at the top of the pile, cutting the appropriate deals downward. Just like a RICO or OCE case, if you don’t start at the top of the heap the witnesses start to disappear, and this administration acts just like a RICO target.
A liberal poster parroting the media line of “this is a witch hunt by congress, who really needs to focus on the economy and not pestering the president” in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . .
@Nathan Blue:
Or liberal groups were also targeted or George W Bush went after the NAACP with the IRS..
By the way no liberal groups will be testifying today on capitol hill. Just conservative ones.
@Mully: The NAACP was in violation of their tax-exempt status, which is why they were investigated. But since they are a liberal minority group, you believe they should get a pass?
No liberal groups will testify today because they all got the speed treatment from the White House directed IRS.
I remember the church cases and the NAACP case from when they happened….as opposed to the Salon revisionist treatment picked up by the Dems on the committee today.
The problem was that these groups all violated their tax exempt status by advocating (from the pulpit on the part of the churchs) for ONE candidate over another.
This is not allowed.
A church can talk about issues, but not endorse a candidate from the pulpit.
The NAACP can, too.
But each of these organizations went past the letter of the law.
And, in the case of the NAACP, they were investigated BUT never lost their tax exempt status….they were warned not to keep advocating for specific candidates, however.
And they agreed to stop doing that.
@Kalashnikat:
Did you mean “whole” or “hole”?
I’m glad PAUL RYAN TOOK OVER that MCDERMOTT FOOL blaming the VICTIMS along with the other DEM,
those who told their stories did a good job at it and PAUL RYAN went after him,
they are worse than you ever see those fail DEMOCRATES MCDERMOTT.
Buvarackbar
how about a WHOLE HOLE
@Scott in Oklahoma:
No argument from me. I was just adding onto the comments of Nathan Blue in the same context.
What irks me is why this scandal didn’t explode in Mar and April of 2012. In March of 2012, ACLJ sent a letter of representation to the IRS with the start of their growing clientele of targeted 501(c) applicants. That list also included the Lynchpin of Liberty educational organization, who applied for (c)(3) status in Feb-Mar of 2011, after being created in 2010. They were one of those testifying in the hearing today.
Apparently Darrell Issa knew, because Issa sent a letter to the IRS in March of 2012, specifically pointing out that this smacked of unconstitutional behavior.
The two media publications cited were CNS and Roll Call. Do any of you remember even FOX News, conservative talk show hosts, jumping on this information, contacting the ACLJ or Issa? I don’t… oversight or just clueless?
Could Issa have expanded that media coverage just by making an official statement that it’s come to the committee’s attention that the IRS may be engaging in this targeting, and they are ordering an investigation? Hang yes… they do that all the time.
When Issa was cornered, after receiving the recent IG report, as to why he didn’t say anything earlier, he said:
“Open secret”? Well, not very open and not very well publicized, or this conversation would have started over a year ago.
You know, considering that politicians on both sides often bring up suspected abuse as a reason for an investigation, that excuse just doesn’t wash with me. But I do know that Issa is not one who belonged to the Tea Party Caucus, and like many high profile GOPers, didn’t likely have any love lost for the TP movement. Was that a factor in his silence?
Then there’s the ACLJ themselves. Exactly what was their excuse for remaining mute? They were retained as representatives for these wronged parties. They issue press releases on their activities and potential abuses all the time. But back in Mar thru June, did they once say a word about the multiple targeted conservative clients? Nope… not until May of this year. Prior to that, they were pretty vocal about pregnancy centers tho.
So why did both the ACLJ and Issa remain silent on this, when that type of news is not only viable, but could most definitely affect an upcoming election? I don’t know the answer to that. Any liberal elected ones who also knew of this had a lot of reasons to remain quiet… but why Issa and the ACLJ? They had the power to give this needed press back than.. and chose not to. Really boils the blood….
Mata Harley
what a good info,.
I remember someone in OBAMA early PRESIDENCY,
that he want to know everything of what is going on in the AGENCIES,
that was said very clearly.
so I was surprise to hear him say he doesn’t know for the AP and FOR THE IRS ,
both scandals he denied knowing.
why does he have so many people in there to tell him everything,
@Mully: Agreed.
@MataHarley:
You probably answered your own question.
@another vet, that only covers Issa. What of the ACLJ? And let’s add a lot more GOPers to that list… i.e. the 12 Republicans who signed their own letter to the IRS Mar 14, 2o012? In that list is Rand Paul and Mitch O’Connell. I think we have a pretty good idea of McConnell’s views on the TP movement. But how does that explain Rand Paul?
In fact, of the 12 GOP names on that March 14th letter, not one of them were in the Tea Party Caucus as of Jan 6, 2013… and that includes Rand Paul, who assumed office in Jan 2011. In fact, where was the Tea Party Caucus on this? Had they spoken out frequently, and loud, it would have been in the headlines… a prelude to the scandals to come.
Were any of them talking about this loud and clear last year?
Then there’s Mark Levin, who went off on a similar tirade that I did above INRE the late timing. But in the next breath, Levin says that his Landmark Legal Foundation had worked for the past year to expose the IRS. I’m a big fan of Levin, and catch his show as often as possible. But even with his substantial media platform, I don’t remember him being all over this last year either. And Levin is a tenacious pit bull with this stuff… he wouldn’t have let it go. Had to scratch my head at his complaint. Landmark Legal is a streamlined non profit, with only 5-6 staffers. How could he not know?
Something is really weird here, and there are too many GOP players who knew to just sweep this under the rug last year. Why is that really boggles the mind… After all, what we know today is pretty much the same as what we knew last year. The only difference is there is an IG report in between, saying the same thing.
Would have been fun watching the Dems, most of whom are equally outraged about this, doing verbal sidling during a hot election season. Unfortunately, for reasons we’ll never know, that will never happen. Another opportunity lost – and one that actually *might* have made a different for a Romney presidency – amidst more of the GOP self inflicting harm.
MataHarley
it might be that they had a big one scandal and they had to gathered all to begin
the uncovering of the scandal, and could have decided to get all the 3 in one massive attack ,
and it seem to work because THEY GET THE ATTENTION FROM WHO THEY WANTED ,
this not an elephant i’t a MAMMOTH
Bees, if that was their strategy, it hits a new all time high of “dumb politics”. They had a chance to affect a POTUS election outcome. They chose not to.
I wonder if any members of Congress might be worried about being caught up in such an explosion? You never know what you might find under rocks, once you start turning them all over.
@MataHarley: Three more possible explanations:
1. The Republican Party is nicknamed the stupid party for a reason.
2. They were afraid of being labeled racists and playing politics during the campaign season.
3. Deep down inside, they thought Obama was going to be re-elected so they decided to hold off and go full throttle during his second term in order to help derail his leftist agenda and take back the Senate.
As for the Dems being equally outraged, let’s see how that goes. Right now the scandal is “confined to a couple of rogue agents in Cincinnati”. As this works its way up the food chain we’ll see how outraged they are especially if it goes knocking on the door of the Oval Office.
@Greg: While you may have a slight point, my fear in conceding to that kind of logic is at the heart of why everyone — dem and rep alike — should have an interest in this scandal.
Obama implied that many groups were dirty . . . no proof, just talk. Was it enough to get the illegal ball rolling and galvanize people to break laws in order to inhibit Obama’s opposition? The results are speaking for themselves.
Implying that Congress (and we know you probably mean the GOP part of congress) is inherently dirty and needs to hide things smacks of the same kind of intimidation tactics.
The point is that so many people have been indoctrinated with erroneous conclusions about the implied “irrelevancy” of the GOP, coupled with the primacy of the Dems, that they can’t see right from wrong. Those who support Obama may not see any issue breaking the law to thwart the GOP, being that they have swallowed the lie that the GOP is simply a party of evil racists, sexists, religiously intolerant . . . anything that you can use within the liberal Zeitgeist to incite some eradicate a point of view by any means necessary.
This is scary stuff, and even if you don’t like or agree with the GOP, I assume you recognize their right to exist as a political party. What we’ve seen with all of the scandals is the scariest of all regime scenarios: the Admin is full of “true believers.” They have no doubt that their way is the best way, to the detriment of us all. That’s not how this country’s government works.
MataHarley
WHAT DIFFERENCE WOULD IT HAVE MADE TO THE UNINFORMED OBAMA VOTERS,
THEY DUNNO nothing, they just follow blindly the leader tell them vote fore revenge,
they where exited like an obedient mob.
so the REPUBLICANS knew that they would not have switch
they had learn to hate the TEAPARTY with OBAMA AND MEDIA,
Nathan BLUE
hi,
yes that’s what the GOP is saying to the NON INFORMED,
they telling of a different way to preserve the AMERICA,
by standing for HER with VALUES un changes, and so easy to remember,
the CONSTITUTION THE BILL OF RIGHT THE COMMERCE CLAUSE,
WHERE THE AMENDMENTS ARE INSIDE, to follow with PRIDE for A COUNTRY SO FREE,
that any breach of that freedom is an ANATHEMA for OBAMA,
and still counting for him.
As I said on to you on the other thread, you enjoy no moral high ground here, Greg. *ALL* members of Congress will be squirming under such an explosion and scrutiny… including your party elected ins.
Thus the reason why most on both sides of the political aisle are (finally) speaking up in disgust now, hoping to nip this in the bud before it becomes a legal precedent for IRS sanctioned use.
I repeat.. the sooner you figure out that your fellow citizens… despite political disagreements… are better friends to you and your freedom that your elected ins, the more we can accomplish.
@ilovebeeswarzone, sorry but blind and uninformed.. as well as hyperbolic partisan… is not a trait that is confined to the Democrats only.
@Nathan Blue:
But that is exactly the way they want it to work. One country. One party.
@another vet:
Maybe not stupid, but I would call them the members of the No Cajones Party.
Of course. The Dems have been labeling anyone who disagrees with them “racists” for decades. And the lame stream media is more than willing to go along with that meme.
Maybe, but I have my doubts. The establishment GOP thought Romney would win simply because, once again, they offered up milquetoast northeastern liberal squish.
Well, today at the hearings, Jim McDermott and Lloyd Doggett didn’t exactly seem “outraged.” More like “hey, Tea Partiers, that’s what you get for thinking you had the same rights as left wing groups.”
Well, the IRS is now claiming that the reason they missed the deadline to provide information to the Oversight Committee is because they are collecting data from 88 IRS agents (a long way from ‘a couple of rogues’). One thing to remember; these IRS agents are “career” personnel. They have worked under both Bush, a Republican and Obama, a Democrat. Their tenure outlasts any administration. And they know that sooner or later, the pendulum swings to the opposite side. And while being a whistle-blower can be hard for them under Obama, it is almost impossible to fire them. Just as Lois Lerner. If I was a low-level IRS agent, I wouldn’t take the fall for anyone out of D.C.
Here is another thing to think about: if, and that is a big IF, the GOP had revealed this IRS scandal last year, where would it have gotten them? The only reason the press is even addressing any of the scandals is because it got its own ox gored with the AP and James Rosen scandals.
@Scott in Oklahoma:#10 “@Smorgasbord: Ya can’t pardon someone who hasn’t been convicted yet…” I don’t recall Richard Nixon being convicted of anything, but I do remember him being pardoned. Is my memory of events faulty?
The actual pardon went something like this:
Well in 1974 I had just graduated from high school, and I had other interest than politics; so I don’t recall if Nixon was actually convicted or resigned before that happened. My understanding of a pardon comes from my law enforcement experience.
@retire05: And it is keeping the Benghazi mess off the front page(s)
@toadold: #8
At least it gives us hope.
@Scott in Oklahoma: #10
What I said was:
obama can’t be reelected, so look for a mass pardoning of people at the end of his term.
@MataHarley: #19,
No kidding, but the Republicans haven’t demonstrated much ability to control the message for a long time. They’re being handed plenty of ammo with repeated assaults on laws and common sense by this Admin. It isn’t clear that during the last Pres. campaign, the Reps really wanted to win.
However, it’s clear to anyone with a pulse that this is a very hateful and race bating Admin., but the GOP didn’t want to seriously take it on. It and Romney showed up with a pea-shooter at the proverbial gunfight.
I agree on Levin. He lays foundations for his arguments better than most. He may be an ‘acquired’ taste, but over the long haul, he seems to be solid.
@Mully: #12
Only conservative groups were targeted, not liberal. When obama’s half brother applied for tax exempt status for the Barack H. Obama Foundation, it was granted retroactively, which is illegal.
Should they be a witness?
@MataHarley: #19
Because the obama administration and his propaganda media didn’t want it to come out at all.
@MataHarley:
I concur, Let us remember that Romney was definitely not a TEA Party candidate, and that the Establishment Republicans have their own disdain for the TEA Party. They benefited for the IRS intimidation of TEA Party reducing their influence in the primaries. As to the ACLU, their leadership tends to support Democratic causes, so I expect that they only wanted to give token support at the time. Now that the cat is out of the bag, the ACLU no doubt realizes that if this agency abuse is not stopped it could come back and be used on the 501(c)’s that they really like.
@another vet: #27
4. The two parties have merged together and become one.
@Redteam: #35
I’m guessing Ford did that so congress wouldn’t bring charges against Nixon. I’m also guessing that it had been worked out ahead of time, before Ford became president. This way, Ford told congress that even if Nixon would be convicted, he would be pardoned by Ford.
Ditto, I didn’t make a typo. It’s not the ACLU… it’s the ACLJ (see links in previous comment #19 above). Different organization, and conservative in most of it’s litigation causes.
@James Raider: #40
Ever since not one republican went after obama’s fake birth certificate, I figured we no longer had a two party system. I ask anyone with an open mind to look at obama’s birth certificate, then ask yourself if it was written on a typewriter or a word processor, keeping in mind that word processor wasn’t invented until AFTER obama was born.
Sheriff Joe Arpaio might get to address congress someday with his investigation into obama’s fake birth certificate, his using someone else’s Social Security number, his having at least 39 Social Security numbers attached to his name, and his Selective Service registration card (draft card) being declared a fake.
If the republicans didn’t want obama in office, wouldn’t they have brought up the question of even ONE of these things?
@Smorgasbord: #47,
IMHO the Chicago crew very cleverly erected the “Obama” mythology and the indeterminate place of his birth serves well into that saga. Like you, I took a close look at the certificate which the “crew” released, and it’s obvious that it doesn’t provide evidence, but in the fact that it was obvious, there is also something peculiar – the “crew” is enjoying perpetuating the enigma, and bating those raising the question. They know that the MSM uses it to write scathing articles of ridicule. I don’t place much import in where he was born. The most offensive event for me is the fact that the MSM has shown absolutely ZERO capacity for intuition or intelligent perspective on the fabrication of the myth that is “Obama” – and I include in that myth the whole of its Chicago crew. Without objectivity from the 4th estate, the Nation has only one way forward – statist liberalism eventually sliding into full socialism.
Constitution? What Constitution? In one generation it will not be recognizable.
@Smorgasbord:
See post #18.
James Raider
he was raise in INONESIA, MUSLIM FAITH, he never forgot , he never let it go
for AMERICA,
that is the foundation of a person.
he will use AMERICA WHO GAVE HIM THE ULTIMATE GIFT,
the seat he is on ,
and yet he is not A TRUE AMERICAN, he hate, he punish
that is the MUSLIM STYLE AND UPBRINGING,
he will never be a PRESIDENT OF AMERICA, but he could be a PRESIDENT
OF ANY MUSLIM COUNTRIES, because he has shape those COUNTRIES and spend more times thinking of them and give them money than in AMERICA BETTERMENT,
the PEOPLE IN AMERICA ARE MORE SAD than before, they are less proud than before, they have less opportunity than before, and they are divided in MORCELS like they are many COUNTRIES,
pulling hairs at each one.
because nobody trust him to do what THE PEOPLE WANT and need,
he does his way or the revenge way punishment,like THE MUSLIMS do.
bye
@Smorgasbord: I suspect you are correct. My main point was that you do not have to be convicted of a crime to be pardoned. As was the case with Nixon. He was never tried or convicted of any crime. The point of the pardon was to prevent that from happening.