It's simple logic. In Libya there is only one possible threat to an AC130 gunship: surface to air missiles. Thus this is the only way Panetta wasn't lying when he said that it was lack of information about the threat environment that kept him from sending defenders into “harm's way” in Benghazi. He must have been afraid that the jihadists were lying in wait with surface to air missiles, and he had good reason to suspect such a ploy.
A primary task of the Libyan mission was to round up the war materiel of the deposed and decomposing Moammar Ghadaffi and funnel it to chosen opponents of Assad in Syria. Which part of the Syrian opposition has Obama been choosing to supply? Al Qaeda:
“Most of the arms shipped at the behest of Saudi Arabia and Qatar to supply Syrian rebel groups fighting the government of Bashar al-Assad are going to hard-line Islamic jihadists, and not the more secular opposition groups that the West wants to bolster, according to American officials and Middle Eastern diplomats,” the Times reports.
The paper quotes one U.S. official as saying, “The opposition groups that are receiving the most of the lethal aid are exactly the ones we don’t want to have it,” adding that “officials, voicing frustration, say there is no central clearinghouse for the shipments, and no effective way of vetting the groups that ultimately receive them.”
According to Adm. James A. Lyons (retired), the Libyan arms that have been funneled to the jihadists include substantial numbers of surface to air missiles:
We now know why Ambassador Christopher Stevens had to be in Benghazi the night of 9/11 to meet a Turkish representative, even though he feared for his safety. According to various reports, one of Stevens’ main missions in Libya was to facilitate the transfer of much of Gadhafi’s military equipment, including the deadly SA-7 – portable SAMs – to Islamists and other al Qaeda-affiliated groups fighting the Assad Regime in Syria. In an excellent article, Aaron Klein states that Stevens routinely used our Benghazi consulate (mission) to coordinate the Turkish, Saudi Arabian and Qatari governments’ support for insurgencies throughout the Middle East. Further, according to Egyptian security sources, Stevens played a “central role in recruiting Islamic jihadists to fight the Assad Regime in Syria.”
So of course Panetta had to worry about the jihadists having man-portable SAMs. He had been supplying t
hem, and a successful SAM attack on our military with these U.S. supplied weapons would be devastating for Obama's election chances. From the start of the Libyan operation critics have been complaining about U.S. aid going to the jihadists. To have that treasonous strategy backfire in such spectacular fashion would be Fast and Furious times a thousand.
So they made a calculated decision. Our people on the ground would be sacrificed to Obama's political ambition and the Obamatons would coordinate on a cover story about there not being any planned attack at all, when it actually appeared to them to be so well planned as to look like a possible trap.
If it wasn't a trap, responding with force was an obvious political winner
The same logic applies for Obama. On the surface the attack presented Obama with a windfall opportunity to chew up and spit out what now look to have been hundreds of jihadists, all of whom would be sitting ducks for an AC130. Here was a chance for Obama to really dance on bin Laden's grave, slaughtering the jihadists on 9/11 itself, thereby cementing Obama's claim to the “gutsy call” and likely insuring his re-election. If Obama didn't fear a trap then responding with force would have been a no-brainer, especially for a political calculator like Obama.
But would the jihadists really be that stupid? Would they hand such an easy and obvious military and political victory to the hated United States of Americam or did they perhaps have a plan befitting the date? Most likely they did have SAMs lying in wait, maybe a lot of them, prepared to take out any helicopters or gunships that came anywhere near. In any case, Obama must have thought so, or he would not have passed up such an obvious opportunity to salvage election victory.
For Panetta's part, SAMs were the only rational fear, so if it really was concern for our forces that stayed Panetta's hand that makes Obama the biggest liar of all time. He went before the nation pretending there was no evidence the attack had been planned at all when he and Panetta had actually acted on the supposition that it was a carefully laid trap, backed by the most sophisticated enemy weapons in theater.
The correct response—the American response—would have been to devise a plan to take out a SAM-equipped enemy. We could have swarmed in with anti-SAM equipped jet fighters and put as many fast-reaction forces on the ground as possible, but that would have revealed the nature of the threat for the world to see. Even if thoroughly successful, such a response would still have blown Obama's Faster and Furiouser cover, exposing both the policy and the consequences of arming al-Qaeda. Thus for anti-president Obama, cowardice and cover-up were the only way forward.
No semi-conscious listener would dispute that outright lies were spewed by the Administration from the very first unravelling of this disaster and are continuing. And yet, from that reservoir of self-righteousness and wisdom, the New York Times, the best we get as late as yesterday, . . .
Those “inquisitive” minds just don’t want to know, and refuse to ask questions.
If there was nothing to hide, the MSM wouldn’t be so afraid to request answers to obvious questions.
This is further evidence that the MSM knows that the President it protects at the cost of its credibility, is very, very fragile.
Alec
I think this is certainly a possibility but I still have to wonder why one of the guys was painting unless something was on station or expected to be.
Impeachment does not require a declared war.
Al-Qaeda has declared itself to be an enemy of this nation.
President Barack Hussein Obama has given aid and comfort to Al-Qaeda.
President Barack Hussein Obama has, by definition, committed treason.
Whether he is impeached or not does not change this one fact:
President Barack Hussein Obama is a traitor.
Are all of you ready for a shock? This next sentence is coming from me, Mr. Respect and Courtesy:
May. God. Damn. President. Barack. Hussein. Obama. to. Hell.
The sooner the better.
I’ve finally had enough of this traitor.
Disrespect and discourtesy/off.
Now I can revert to my usual self. Thank you all for your indulgence.
Anyone with an ounce of sense would question information attributed to totally anonymous sources that’s being fed into the public consciousness by media outlets having an obvious political agenda only a week ahead of a national election.
Opinions seem to vary about a lot of things.
Problem Greg:
The sources come from the White House Email dumps, not some “shadowy” figure.
Maybe you should read the email dumps before you blather?
I like the picture of the car falling of the edge of a cliff. However, I think the text should say:
FRAUD-WARD.
@Greg:
So why haven’t Liberals or the MSM done this in the past?
Dan Rathernot and the forged papers about President Bush’s military service come to mind.
Harry Reid’s “Someone told me” source on Governor Romney’s taxes.
I’m certain that other posters here can come up with many more examples, but why bother? Wouldn’t change anything or anyone.
@AdrianS:
I’m hoping that no one actually trashed a classic T-bird.
@Greg:
Until you can tell us who Deep Throat was, then we can assume that Watergate never happened, right?
Or was information attributed to totally anonymous sources that was being fed into the public consciousness by a media outlet having an obvioius political agenda only a week ahead of a national election not count when it was directed at a Republican president that information from anonymous sources finally took down?
News flash, Greggie, Larry, Moe and Joe, we are not playing by your rules any longer. New game, new deck. Deal with it.
This all sounds plausible Alec, but I’m pretty sure we still have F16 Wild Weasels in Europe and I’m almost positive we have EA-6B Prowlers in Sigonella. And the picture of the 130 in your post is it blowing flares. I can assure you it would also be loaded with chaff. The USAF has the ability to turn a significant portion of any country into complete radar darkness. You wouldn’t even be able to lock onto an FM station. When the Air Force sends in a bomber or something like an AC-130, someone is running blocker.
The fear of SAMs makes a lot of sense for not sending in air. However, not everything fits.
–The AC-130 has countermeasures to SAM’s, as your posted photo demonstrates.
–As mentioned above, the painting of the mortar position would not have been done unless it was thought there was an air asset above. It thus seems more likely that there was something in the sky, but it too was told to ‘stand down’.
–There was no particular shortage of drones in the region, and Obama famously is not reluctant to use them (and brag about their use in the NYT). These could have struck against the mortar position, at no risk of casualties.
Someone I talked with just posited Obama wanted Ambassador Stevens kidnapped so he would be ”forced” to trade him for Egypt’s ”blind Sheik.”
Conspiracy theories are starting to abound.
A concise condemnation of President Barack Hussein Obama’s treasonous decisions:
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/50633
Yes, he is a “moral monster”.
As for the contra-indications: 1) A soldier might well laser a target just in anticipation that help would be coming, without needing to know what kind of help to expect. ANY reaction force, ground or air, would see the painting and hit the target. 2) Chaff helps, but if the attackers were well armed with SAMs they would still have a good chance of bringing an AC130 down.
But suppose an AC130 was in the air. What possible downside would there be for Obama in using it to take out a bunch of jihadis? Maybe if the Obamatons had already settled on a strategy of blaming the attack on “spontaneous protests” against the anti-Muhammad video, but that apparently was not settled on until a couple days later when it became the official story. Yes, Obama is stupider than a mud fence, but could even he fail to grasp that it is more politic to kick jihadi butt than to get butt-kicked by jihadis?
I’m not sure what newsites with an obvious political agenda Greg is referring to. You don’t have to pollute your eyes with Fox to find evidence that Team Obama was making up the video story. You could ask Candy Crowley for that one or basically anyone that interviewed a surrogate that week. They have self-contradicted over and over on every news outlet… on NO news outlet. You could get the direct feeds from the WH website if you want and only trust them for your info. Thanks for playing.
It is time for our congressional Republicans to start impeachment proceedings and criminal charges against Obama. To supply the enemy with SAMs is unconscionable. It is time for this charade to end.
@Greg:
Like you did when Harry Reid suggested Romney didn’t pay taxes for ten years?
Oh, that’s right. You didn’t. Not only that, but you took Reid’s ball and ran with it, here at FA. Does that mean that you don’t have any sense?
The problem with types like yourself, Greg, is that you are quite content to demand the opposition of “good” liberal/progressives play by a different set of rules, all the while allowing the liberal/progressives as much lee-way and wriggle-room as they need.
Let the Liberals defend Obama when the families of those killed in commercial airliners ask why; in the mean time, we must stop this traitorous monster.
@Petercat:
Great. Once again, “You do not have permission to edit this comment.”
I wanted to add a quote from that Canadian article:
“This is because it reveals Barack as he truly is inside—an immoral, gutless, unfeeling, selfish, hypocritical, overly ambitious and hideously uncaring person.”
They don’t pull any punches against our treasonous President Barack Hussein Obama at-all.
Obama could straighten this out really quickly if it was innocent as the lamestream press would have us believe. Even if incompetence was the excuse, it’d be better than what’s being conjectured. The longer Obama ducks the opportunity to speak out the greater the odds this was a monster dereliction.
@DrJohn:
Arming anti-American jihadists as they have done goes way beyond dereliction.
Madness.
It has now been more than 6 weeks since Ambassador Stevens and three other men were murdered in Libya on 9-11-12.
FORTY-TWO DAYS LATER:
Obama is still trying to ”get to the truth.”
How does this compare with Bush’s timeline on 9-11-01?
NINE DAYS AFTER:
On 20 September 2001, U.S. president George W. Bush addressed the United States Congress and demanded that the Taliban deliver Osama bin Laden and destroy bases of al Qaeda.
TWENTY-FOUR DAYS LATER:
On 5 October 2001, the Taliban offered to try Bin Laden in an Afghan court, so long as the United States provided what it called “solid evidence” of his guilt, but the U.S. would not hand over its evidence to the Taliban.
TWENTY-SEVEN DAYS LATER:
On 7 October 2001, the U.S. government launched military operations in Afghanistan.
THE BALLS ON THESE GUYS.
Ledeen is making the same argument:
According to Fox News there were drones overhead Benghazi, but these were inexplicably unarmed.
Thia also explains why Romney answered the question asked of him by the moderator in the third debate,Will you put a no fly none over Syria;Absoloutely not! He already knew of the sams as well?
@Petercat: This pic is from great movie “Thelma and Louise”, at the end, when they put the hammer down, after soul-searching that they were not going to knuckle-under and be taken in by the authorities…sounds like the way i’ve felt this election, R&R all the way…
@mossberg12gal:
Mossberg, the worlds best shotgun. Not too expensive, not too pretty, it just works every time.
If someone gave me another, more expensive shotgun, I’d sell it and buy a Mossberg 500 and spend the difference on ammunition!
Could Obama and Hillary really have lacked the foresight to know these weapons would fall into Al Qaida hands once Gadaffi was overthrown? Are they really that stupid?
Obama armed AQIM. They are stronger than before.
@Greggie: You said:
Hmm, totally anonymous sources?
How about the Deputy Assistant Secretary for International Programs in the Bureau of Diplomatic Security at the Department of State?
Are people here forgetting Iran-Contra? The US has a long and storied history of dealing with the devil to assert its agenda and fight “shadow wars.” Moreover, this history is bipartisan. Regardless of the administration, soldiers, ambassadors, and citizens hav always been deemed acceptable collateral damage if their loss satisfies the perceived long-term political gain. While this incident happened under Obama’s watch, he’s not the only leader to have endorsed such antics. In my 50 years, each sitting President has had his “Benghazi,” and to suggest otherwise is naive at best.
@anticsrocks, #30:
Uh huh. Which critical details of the account do you imagine you’ve just found a named source for? That report seems like a rough outline of the events that everyone pretty much agrees on.
This will all come out before the election.The lamestream media will be forced to cover it.
@Greggie: You said:
May I remind you of your own words?
So even when there is a named source, multiple sources, at that, you switch your asinine argument from everything is a rumor to ‘what new details are you pointing to?’
So predictable.
On Greta tonight, Newt Gingrich said that a US Senator told him at least 2 networks have emails from the National Security Advisor’s office ordering a counter-terrorist group to stand down. This was in response to a request by the group for permission to go help our people at the Libyan embassy.
“They were told explicitly by the White House to stand down & do nothing,” Newt told Greta VanSusteren.
Now I know this will carry no weight with you, for several reasons that anyone here on FA could easily predict, you will scoff at this.
But we shall see if this comes out. If so, then finally the truth will be told. If not then, you get to crow loudly, thinking it makes you right.
.
.
Alec
If the attackers were ready to use stingers, might they have used them on the reinforcement aircraft coming to the Benghazi airport? They would have to expect help to be sent, no?
The element that makes little sense in the scant info we know is why Stevens drove to Benghazi on 9/11 with a minimal security detail. Was Steven’s lured to Benghazi? Did the Turks double cross Obama or were they played as well?
The Benghazi attack was a Syrian checkmate by Putin and Obama is playing checkers, poorly.
BJM2009
hi,
you bring another good one,
someone should take all theses and compiled it in a book,
because they all good conversation debates,
bye
BJM2009
here is another one to follow up on your own;
STEVEN was tip up by one LIBYAN who knew the coming attack,
he decide to go in BENGHASI, to get some important paper incriminating OBAMA,
to throw it in his face as a proof, and decide to send it by their own channel direct to OBAMA,
which got in a rage, and took note of the message telling of the imminent attack,
and demanding help at once , that demand was the last one put down, but
when the seal name WOOD, ask to go to check the noise of what he heard, he was said stay down,
and him and the other seal said to each other let’s go , we cannot let them unprotected,
they went save a good number of other who escaped and where fighting for many hours
thinking of the support coming for sure as they also requested it,
there was no doubt in their mind that they would not get the support,
all this while there was time wasted to remove the 4 star GENERAL HAM from his POST
AS AFRICAN COMMANDER ready to go, plus removing the HIGH ADMIRAL COMMANDER of a FLEET, ready to go,
while OBAMA was looking at the killing of AMERICAN BRAVES representing their beloved AMERICA
and fighting for their lives
THOSE HERO,ARE THE PRECIOUS TREASURES OF AMERICA,
which cannot afford to lose or disable anyone of them,
bye
What kind of crack head logic do you have here? The President went to Al-Qaeda himself and gave them weapons?
@Mr. Irons. #5:
Perhaps someone could directly quote the specific parts of the White House e-mails that clearly support the extreme allegations that are being made. I haven’t seen anything that does so. The emails are being referred to in much the same way that FOX makes references to its “sources”.
Wolfowitz is now claiming that there WERE no AC130s in theater:
Captain’s Journal doesn’t believe it and neither do I. What? Did they remove them in anticipation of an attack?
@Alec Rawls, #41:
Paul Wolfowitz’s entire article can be found at the American Enterprise Institute website here:
Distrust but verify
That’s certainly one line of thought. Another is that they were quietly deployed elsewhere, in anticipation of something else. A lot of U.S. and UK naval power recently concentrated in the Persian Gulf. Naval exercises, a show of force, etc. Note this article from September, however, regarding AC-130s from Eglin AFB, Florida. One can only speculate.
@Greg: You said:
There you go again, Greg. Now whether one believes that Obama is right or wrong on the 9/11 Benghazi attacks, your blatant double standard is appalling.
When Politico ran with their story of an unnamed accuser alleging Herman Cain of sexual misconduct, did you keep excoriating Politico for hiding their source?
When Harry Reid, on the Senate floor made accusations about Mitt Romney’s tax paying record, saying only that an investor told him this; did you state that Harry Reid MUST name his source?
Can you directly answer my questions, Greg?
Let me restate them, in bold:
When Politico ran with their story of an unnamed accuser alleging Herman Cain of sexual misconduct, did you keep excoriating Politico for hiding their source?
When Harry Reid, on the Senate floor made accusations about Mitt Romney’s tax paying record, saying only that an investor told him this; did you state that Harry Reid MUST name his source?
Well Greg, got a problem you can’t dismiss huh?
The Cable dump that is currently your thinking of is the requests of new Security
http://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/DEI-to-BHO-10-19-2012-attachments.pdf
However, since there is still on going investigations in to who bungled and left the Consulate stranded there is another Email Dump pending for public release. I’m ITAR work duty right now, if you can’t figure that one out and the Military side already are buzzing in angst over the Stand Down order. The current director of CIA is on record stating he did not issue the Stand Down, it had to come from the White House by a mailing format since the POTUS was busy heading towards Vegas and his Staff running blindly around blaming a Video while the Attackers were going to Twitter bragging about their assault on the United States.
FYI, I’m currently working in an ITAR logistics job as a civilian for the United States Air Force and most of the command and air force servicemen around me are livid about the POTUS still to this day about Libya… Now why would USAF command be angry?
John
yes it’s the same as if he would have given theses weapons in person,
he send the one who represent him to do the job.
and he refuse the help they needed,
you know what it ‘s called, leading from behind,
HE’S BEEN DOING THAT SINCE THE 2008 I WON,
where is the CRACK HEAD LOGIC YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT?
Schlegs
what is the use of bringing the other PRESIDENTS with this PRESIDENT failure to send required help?
it has nothing to do with this behavior, and it won’t make it right either,
what count is what happen to have the four hero loose their lives for lack of sending help,
which was required way before the attack, which is the PRESIDENT RESPONSIBILITY ALONE,
NO MATTER HOW LONG HE WILL KEEP DENYING IT,
THIS IS PART OF HIS JOB AND HE FAIL TO DO IT AND PEOPLE DIED,
THOSE WHO PROTECT YOU AND ALL AMERICA, KEEP DYING ON FOREIGN LANDS,
TO KEEP THIS AMERICA FREE,
WHO IS PROTECTING THEM? NO ONE ?
DID YOU MEAN OBAMA IS GOING BACKWARD?
@Greg:
at least you are still getting your news from FOX, that’s the only one you can believe…
Redteam
I start to read the pages about BENGHASI,
from the beginning , there is 120 pages,
the few first pages also mentionned of a lack of support at the time
and the cut of personal was made on top of it, even in early time,
the talk was to save on expanses by the top guy.
it gave me the impression, there was a lack of importance due to the EMBASSY PEOPLE from the base in WASHINGTON,
and I also notice already the big gap between the number of employees in the USA, according to the in and out mail to many of them, compare with the lack of employes
in BENGHASI. IT TOLD ME that those in WASHINGTON
LOOK LIKE THEY think they ARE THE NAVEL OF THE EARTH,
and it prove me right by looking at how the four AMBASSADOR and SEALS WHERE DENIED HELP SO MANY TIMES,
they where cutting expanses on securing those in BENGHASI,
but not cutting on what I percieved as over staff in the top leadership in WASHINGTON
some people explode if they become powerfull
it’s too much for them to hold,
there is very strange things happening in AMERICA, JUST GET THE FEEL OF IT,
think back and see like dark forces are holding the group of voters for OBAMA
and it’s like they have been posess by invisible forces taking their mind and leading them to fall
in a deep underground damnation,
you hear OBAMA CAMPAIGNING all the time with some subliminal messages to keep the crowd hypnotize,
and repeat it day after day to keep the attraction on him which is not normal, it is like we notice in 2008,
a real cabalistic transe those young don’t reallyze they are being targeted,
you just have to listen to them, you feel it, even that you can’t touch it. but you know it’s there,
OBAMA POSESS A NEFARIOUS ATTRACTION WHICH IS TRANSFER TO THOSE NON INFORMED,
THE YOUNG THE POOR HE NURTURE THEM, BECAUSE HE KNOW IT,
HIS BLACK GRANDMOTHER COME TO MY MIND AT THIS POINT, SHE WAS INDUCE IN THE OCCULT,
IN THAT COUNTRY, WHO KNOWS MAYBE SHE TRANSFER HER KNOWLEDGE OF THE DARK POWERS TO HIM, WITHOUT HIM AS A CHILD KNOWING IT BUT FEELING HIMSELF DIFFERENT THAN OTHER
GOD LOVING YOUNG PERSON, HE DID DRUGGED HIMSELF, THAT ALSO IS INCLUDE
IN THE DARK FORCES CEREMONIALS.
HOW MANY DID HE MIND-STRUCK, MANY I THINK, TO SEE THAT WAY THEY AGGRESSIVELY FOLLOW
HIM LIKE HE HAS THEM UNDER HIS SPELL, IS ABNORMAL,
and we all have notice it.
that plus the abortion of babies he is implementing, and his support to other abnormal behaviors corrupting the AMERICANS. he is a scary person.
LET ME GO FURTHER
ON TELEVISION showing SANDY disaster, the giant waves beating the shore,
the journalist was talking and suddenly express his thoughts like I HAVE DONE ABOVE,
he said suddenly out of nowhere looking at one wave, it is very weird,
it look like the sea is angry, it did stuck a note, because it was angry really and deadly disaster,
it opened the entrails of the EARTH, AND TOOK MANY IN DEATH AND DESTRUCTION
NEVER SEEN SO STRONG, LEAVING A PEOPLE IN COMPLETE DISARRAY, BY WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN
WITNESSING SCARED AND HURT.
YES THOSE WHERE DARK FORCES IN FULL DESTRUCTION
TERRORIZING THE HUMANS