24 Aug

Obama Defends Islam, Becomes More Of A Joke [Reader Post]

                                       

Let’s examine some of the actions (or non-actions) President Barack Hussein “kill list” Obama has taken lately to defend Islam.

  • Islamic Organizations: A majority of Islam organizations in America have direct and/or indirect links to Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood. Organizations such as the North American Islamic Trust (NAIT), the Muslim Students Association (MSA), the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), and the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), the most widely publicized one, fall into this category. For example, this source explains the CAIR-Hamas linkage. This source confirms CAIR as a terrorist organization.

    The US government has linked CAIR to the terror group Hamas (Arabic word meaning ‘zeal’), which is an outgrowth of the Muslim Brotherhood. Hamas is the primary political party in the Gaza Strip, and continues its refusal to recognize Israel.

    The Muslim Brotherhood has been called, by the Obama administration, secular and moderate. But the Muslim Brotherhood has as its slogan, “Allah is our objective; the Prophet is our leader; the Koran is our law; Jihad is our way; dying in the path of Allah is our highest hope.” And the Muslim Brotherhood has called for the violent overthrow of Israel, and made a call for jihad against the US. Further, it has said that it wants to “eliminate and destroy Western civilization from within.” Secular and moderate – yeah, right!

    Obama indirectly praised the Muslim Brotherhood when he directly praised Huma Abedin who has ties to the Brotherhood. And, in March 2012, Obama bypassed Congress and gave $1.5 billion in military aid to Egypt, currently under control of the Muslim Brotherhood.

  • Iran: Regarding Iran’s nuclear program (designed to destroy Israel), Obama’s inaction has become the subject of international ridicule, including Iran president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad himself. In March 2012, Obama said:

    “We, immediately upon taking over, mapped out a strategy that said we are going to mobilize the international community around this issue and isolate Iran to send a clear message to them that there is a path they can follow that allows them to rejoin the community of nations, but if they refused to follow that path, that there would be an escalating series of consequences.”

    Obama then said that his strategy was successful. But sources such as this one, this one, and this one suggest otherwise. It appears that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has had the last laugh.

  • Outreach: Obama has reached out to the Islamic world. He, for example, redefined NASA’s mission to be Muslim outreach over space exploration. The Muslim outreach goal has been to lessen opposition to US wars in the Middle East. But that objective has failed in Islamic countries. Regarding his job performance on Iraq and Afghanistan, approval ratings ranged from 4 percent to 22 percent, with disapproval ranging 53 percent to 84 percent. In fact, Obama’s policies (6 percent approval) are disliked more in Pakistan, a Muslim-majority country with nuclear weapons, than anywhere else in the world.All of Obama’s outreach is based on his belief that because Muslims don’t like us and want to kill us, and that Islam is a religion of peace, then obviously WE did something to cause their anger. We must, therefore, do something to assuage their anger.

    As a Washington Times editorial states:

    “Differences between the U.S. and Muslim-majority countries will not be solved through symbolism and feel-good rhetoric, and Mr. Obama will not overcome the difficult problems the U.S. faces in that region by pretending their fundamental causes do not exist.”

  • Palestine: The Qur’an (5:82 – “You will surely find the most intense of the people in animosity toward the believers [to be] the Jews and those who associate others with Allah;”) says that Jews are Muslims’ worst enemies, and the Jews therefore have no right to form the state of Israel. This is the primary reason why, despite many promises to do so, Palestinian has never, or will it ever, recognize Israel. But that little fact will not deter Obama. He assumes that because Islam is a peaceful religion that has been distorted by “a few extremists,” the vast majority of Palestinians want peace, justice, fairness, and tolerance for themselves and for the Israelis. Obama’s latest “Peace Proposal” calls for Israel to return to its 1967 borders, which would mean that Israel abandon the Gaza Strip where Palestine is located.Further, did you know that there is no such thing a Palestine, Palestinian people, or a Palestinian culture? As (the late) Israeli Prime Minister Golga Meir said, “There is no such thing as a Palestinian people.”

    And, yes, that is the same Palestine that received $147 million from the Obama administration.
  • Democrat Convention: This one may not directly refer to Obama, but because Democrats are expected to re-nominate him, it’s close enough. As many as 20,000 Muslims are expected to attend the “Jumu’ah (a congregational prayer [salah] that Muslims hold every Friday, just after noon) at the DNC.” The Jumu’ah is a series of events being organized by the Bureau of Indigenous Muslim Affairs (BIMA). One event is an “Islamic Cultural & Fun Fest,” which includes a “TownHall Issues Conference” that will address such issues as Islamaphobia, Anti-Shariah, and the Middle Eastern Crisis. The Conference’s agenda is to:

    ” … portray Muslims as the innocent victims of a bigoted, racist and “Islamophobic” government and law enforcement establishment that is unfairly scapegoating Muslims as a whole for the misguided deeds of a few on September 11, 2001.”

But what is really frightening is that Obama and the Democrats are hosting a morally offensive gang of Islamic supremacists with numerous ties to terrorist groups. For example, BIMA spokesman Jibril Hough attends a mosque owned by the North American Islamic Trust (NAIT), a Muslim Brotherhood group. NAIT was named an unindicted co-conspirator in the Holy Land Foundation Hamas terror funding case. Further, Siraj Wahhaj is the “Grand Imam” for the Jumu’ah. He, in the early 1990s, squired Omar Abdel Rahman, the Blind Sheikh, around New York City, sponsoring talks by Rahman in area mosques. Wahhaj has said that the US will fall unless it “accepts the Islamic agenda.” He has also said that, “if only Muslims were clever politically, they could take over the United States and replace its constitutional government with a caliphate.” This is the man that Obama and the Democrats embrace.

My question is this: “Where was the MSM when Wahhaj said that the US will fail?” They were certainly all over Rush Limbaugh when he said he hopes Obama fails.

All of this from Obama, who, in his book Audacity of Hope, wrote, “I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.” Obama may not be a practising Muslim, but we sure know where his sympathies lie. And Obama has said that Malcolm X, a Muslim, is one of his heroes.

But that’s just my opinion.

This entry was posted in Barack Obama, Fanatical Islam, Islam, Politics. Bookmark the permalink. Friday, August 24th, 2012 at 8:40 am
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49 Responses to Obama Defends Islam, Becomes More Of A Joke [Reader Post]

  1. Common Sense says: 1

    It was Islamic terrorist that killed Americans on American soil on 9/11. It was not Christian, Buddhist, Jewish, or any other religion.

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  2. pat says: 2

    The religion of the slave traders of Zanzibar. I suppose that makes Obama think he is a Master.

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  3. Nan G says: 3

    People often have a soft spot for the religion of their family…..even if they never really practiced that religion personally.
    I know I am that way about Judaism.
    I think Obama is that way about Islam.
    Each of these types of people, given the chance, naively idealizes the religions of their fathers.
    Only well after the fact have we learned just how hopelessly narrative-tied rather than fact-tethered Obama’s ”auto”biography, ”Dreams From My Father, was.
    It was all Obama, done up as ”compilation, not one bit of it true UNLESS it helped his narrative!
    So, too, is Obama’s policy and attitude toward Islam.
    It is all based on Obama’s own faulty narrative.
    Obama’s ego is so big and his skin so thin that he will NEVER admit this.

    So WE all suffer as a result.
    Our men and women in uniform had been reduced to convenient targets for Muslims.
    Our children in our public schools have been forced to attend Islamic ceremonies where girls are not only 2nd class humans, but menstrating girls are below the rest!
    There have been thwarted false narrative ”history” books kicked out of our public schools after even our own revisionist historians realized claiming Muslims discovered America was a bridge too far.

    The truth about Islam is quite complex.
    But when dealing with belligerent Islamic nations our own past leaders have realized that these nations back down from a ”strong horse,” while they fight endlessly against a ”weak horse.” Osama bin Ladin’s words echoed what Jefferson and Roosevelt derived to be a true and workable policy, Muslims fear a strong horse but attack a weak one.

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  4. retire05 says: 4

    Meanwhile, it is being reported that Obama personally rejected the offer from Timothy Cardinal Dolan to give an invocation at the DNC convention. Dolan made the same offer to the RNC and was accepted. People are trying to paint Obama’s rejection on the fact that the RNC convention is being held first, but the truth of the matter is that Cardinal Dolan made the same offer to both parties. Yet a whole day is being devoted to Muslims. (double face palm)

    This is just another way for Obama to slap the faces of every Catholic in the nation. Dolan is well respected, and having been raised in St. Louis by an Irish Catholic family, probably comes from a staunch Democrat background. His offer was apolitical, but Obama, never being one miss an opportunity to trash Catholics, personally made the choice to reject Cardinal Dolan’s offer.

    With every action, Obama shows that his loyalties lie with Islam, not Christianity, if that is what you can call Jeremiah Wright, Jr.’s version of Black Liberation theology, based on the liberation (Marxist) theology of Central/South America.

    Don’t take you eye off the war against Catholics that Obama has declared.

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  5. OF COURSE OBAMA had told a leader from EGYPT VISITING AT THE WHITE HOUSE,
    HE IS A MUSLIM, IT WAS WHEN THE CAMERA FROM A JOURNALIST WAS ROLLING.WAS IT LAST YEAR? OR BEFORE?
    IN THE MEAN TIME, WHEN THE MUSLIMS ARE COMING LIKE A FLOCK TO INSTALL THEMSELVES CONFIDENT AND WITH SOME ARROGANCE SHOWING THEIR WAY OF LIVING BY BUILDING MOSQES ALL OVER THE USA, DRESS UP LIKE NO AMERICAN,
    ALL APPROVED BY OBAMA, AND BLOOMBERG WHICH MAKE BUSYNESS WITH THEM DIRECTLY IN THEIR COUNTRY,

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  6. Nan G says: 6

    I have to wonder about that DNC convention.
    Usually the LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transsexual) community has a place at the table at DNC conventions.
    Also usually Jewish Democrats are prominently on display.
    Are the Muslims just the ”opening act” for the convention, to be shuffled off stage before all these ”Zionists and infidels show up?
    Or, do Democrats think they can all get along?
    If Democrats are wrong it might be a hot convention!

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  7. Richard Wheeler says: 7

    NanG. That’s why Dem conventions are fun. You rather be in Tampa with the teetotaling, caffeine free Mormons?lol

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  8. retire05 says: 8

    @Richard Wheeler:

    Perhaps Nan would rather not be at a convention where a prime speaking spot was given to an Imam (Siraj Wahhaj) who stated that it was the reponsibility of all American Muslims to replace the U.S. Constitution with the Koran.

    And last time I checked, there had been no incidents of teatotaling, caffine free Mormans flying planes into tall American buildings.

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  9. Richard Wheeler
    what you call fun, it’s called outrageous and self center done on purpose,
    and cover with corrupt messages to lure those unaware of the poisonous bait they are sending,
    to AMERICANS, TO SHOW THEY ARE UNITED IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY,
    WHEN WE KNOW VERY WELL THEY ARE LYING THROUGH THEIR TEETH.

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  10. openid.aol.com/runnswim says: 10

    Latest news from the United States of Islam:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/25/world/asia/us-drone-strikes-kill-18-in-pakistan.html

    Continuation of Obama’s charm offensive in the Islamic world.

    Meanwhile, Fox News outs Navy Seal who was present on the third floor when bin Laden was shot in the face, including giving his small home town in Alaska.

    P.S. Why on earth should Obama give Dolan any validation whatsoever? Dolan has proven himself to be a political hack — in my personal view, he’s misused his position in the USCCB to interject himself into Presidential politics, under the guise of standing up for “religious freedom.” The person whom I really wish the Dems would invite to say a prayer would be Sister Pat Farrell, outgoing President of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious.

    P.P.S.S.

    News item:

    Dolan — considered the top Catholic official in the nation, as head of the Archdiocese of New York and president of the Conference of Catholic Bishops — tipped off Democrats a few weeks ago that he had agreed to deliver the prime-time benediction at the Republican convention in Tampa next week, Dolan’s spokesman Joseph Zwilling told The Post.

    “He wanted to make sure that they knew that this was not a partisan act on his part and that he would be just as happy and grateful to accept an invitation from the Democrats as he would to have received one from the Republicans,” said Zwilling.

    “He has not been contacted by them” since, he added.

    A senior Obama campaign official said yesterday that the Democrats would have a “high-ranking” Catholic at the convention, but indicated the arrangements weren’t yet final.

    “I can’t announce it because the person hasn’t got their plane ticket,” said the official.

    Obama campaign spokesman Adam Fetcher would say only, “The Catholic clergy will be an important part of a diverse community of interfaith leaders represented in Charlotte.”

    Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/cardinal_sin_bam_blew_off_blessing_aLYqq7VnyqG8maCqZaui2K#ixzz24VMDCyfG

    - Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA

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  11. Greg says: 11

    @openid.aol.com/runnswim, #10:

    Meanwhile, Fox News outs Navy Seal who was present on the third floor when bin Laden was shot in the face, including giving his small home town in Alaska.

    Yep, they did exactly that, after all of the criticism they heaped on Obama only for having mentioned that anonymous members of a certain Navy Seal unit were to be credited and thanked.

    Unbelievable.

    “In an article published Thursday, August 23, 2012 by Justin Fishel for Fox News, there appeared the identity of one of the Navy SEALS directly involved in the operation to kill Usama Bin Laden. This SEAL had recently written a book about the Bin Laden raid entitled No Easy Day under the pen name ‘Mark Owen’, and it is due to be released on September 11, 2012. The Fox News article identified him as . . .”

    From a related CNN article:

    “A senior Pentagon official said Fox News did not contact the Department of Defense ahead of revealing the author’s name. Fox did not respond to a request for comment.”
    . . .
    “Pentagon officials told CNN that Owen and the publishing company did not submit the manuscript through the proper Department of Defense channels to check if secret tactics, techniques and procedures were revealed about the 2011 bin Laden mission.”

    I don’t know which is more unbelievable about what FOX has done–the stunning level of their hypocrisy, or their total disregard for a special military unit’s safety and security.

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  12. mmercier says: 12

    There is a systematic colapse of global economic order in process.

    Until a new paradigm of undetstanding is established and disseminated to the masses there will be talk of war and religion and hate.

    It is our traditional coping mechansim.

    “Something fabulous is about to happen”

    Clarke said it in one of his books…

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  13. Nan G says: 13

    On the subject of Obama being a joke, it turns out his use of the bandwagon fallacy is huge.
    Not just in words but also in deeds.
    Turns out 1/2 of all his supposed Twitter followers are fakes!
    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2012/08/obama-has-millions-of-fake-twitter-followers/1#.UDepPY7DMeL
    USAToday covered this.
    OOPS!
    That ”bandwagon” is looking emptier and emptier as the days go by.

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  14. Richard Wheeler says: 14

    Retire05 You’re right.Those Mormons are pretty close to perfect.
    Happens I’m going to a Mormon family get together at an oceanfront home in San Clemente Sat. night.My wife and I looking forward to it though we’ll have to have a nightcap in town.

    You and bees and NanG are so dang serious. Lighten up.Even straight arrow Mitt was joking today.

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  15. retire05 says: 15

    @openid.aol.com/runnswim:

    Why am I not surprised that you would support Sister Pat Ferral over Timothy Cardinal Dolan? After all, Sister Pat is a strong proponent of Obamacare, among other things. Things like Sisters no longer wearing the habit of their order, demanding that they have their own apartments (paid for by the Church, of course) and not have to return to the convent at night as is historically the way it has always been done, complaining about the Mass because it is too male “centric,” or supporting homosexual marriage. The Pope, rightfully so, has pulled in the reins on the Conference on Women Religious because, to be really honest about it, they are as Catholic as Imam Wahhij who is going to speak at the DNC convention.

    The ironic part is that Timothy Dolan, as a citizen, probably voted Democrat his entire adult life. Yet, with the acceptance of the Muslim Day at the DNC, Obama personally snubs Cardinal Dolan. Not a good idea in a presidental race that is going to be as close as it is. In case you haven’t notice, support for Obama is taking a nose dive with Catholics.

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  16. retire05 says: 16

    @Richard Wheeler:

    Sorry if I didn’t find any humor in your “Morman” crack. You see, knowing the Democrats are going to honor the very people who supported 9-11 at their convention, well, I just don’t seem to find the humor in that I guess I should. Kinda like Joe Kennedy, Sr. supporting Hitler to the point where the Brits demanded FDR pull Kennedy from the St. James Court.

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  17. Nan G.
    on fox HANNITY with those WHO MADE THE MOVIE, HOPE AND CHANGE,
    VERY INTERESTING NOW TALKING ABOUT IT,
    AND THOSE WHO VOTE FOR HIM SO DISAPPOINTED INTERVIEWED BY
    PATT CADELL, STEVE BANNON , DAVID BOSSIE
    THE CREATOR OF THAT MOVIE,
    EXCEPTIONAL

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  18. openid.aol.com/runnswim says: 18

    Hi Retire:

    Several items. Blaming all Muslims 11 years after 9/11 is like blaming all Germans or all Japanese 11 years after World War II.

    You don’t understand the history of Women Religious, post Vatican II. The average nun today is 70 years old.

    Put yourself in the place of a 1960s teenager. They were recruited into religious orders by older sisters, who were in charge. These sisters wanted to replenish their ranks. In order to swell their ranks, they emphasized the social work side of it and de-emphasized the cloistered obedience to male authority side of it. Once the new novices signed up, there was no emphasis on cloistered obedience. They weren’t instructed as you think they should have been instructed. Their instruction/indoctrination was far different from that which Mother Theresa received, at a similar age.

    In my view, you are much too hard on these women. I think I understand pretty well how they got where they are today. It’s quite easy for you, on the outside, to sit in judgement of them, having the perspective that you have. In retrospect, things are always crystal clear.

    Look at your own life. You are far wiser now than you were as a very young man. Plus, you are a conservative and you probably like the new emphasis on doctrinal purity which didn’t exist in the 1960s, when everyone perceived that the Church was in a position of flux. These liberal women didn’t sign up for what the Church is now trying to impose on them. Again, blame the older sisters who recruited and trained them. Basically, what’s happening to them is the religious equivalent of a gotcha game.

    This has been the subject of much scholarly research, by the way, e.g.

    Publication Date: April 30, 2007 | ISBN-10: 0674024737 | ISBN-13: 978-0674024731
    In the 1960s, a number of Catholic women religious in the United States abandoned traditional apostolic works to experiment with new and often unprecedented forms of service among non-Catholics. Amy Koehlinger explores the phenomenon of the “new nun” through close examination of one of its most visible forms–the experience of white sisters working in African-American communities. In a complex network of programs and activities Koehlinger describes as the “racial apostolate,” sisters taught at African-American colleges in the South, held racial sensitivity sessions in integrating neighborhoods, and created programs for children of color in public housing projects.

    Engaging with issues of race and justice allowed the sisters to see themselves, their vocation, and the Church in dramatically different terms. In this book, Koehlinger captures the confusion and frustration, as well as the exuberance and delight, they experienced in their new Christian mission. Their increasing autonomy and frequent critiques of institutional misogyny shaped reforms within their institute and sharpened a post-Vatican II crisis of authority.

    From the Selma march to Chicago’s Cabrini Green housing project, Amy Koehlinger illuminates the transformative nature of the nexus of race, religion, and gender in American society.

    Here’s a pretty decent op-ed on the subject, from a St. Louis University Catholic theologian:

    http://www.stltoday.com/news/opinion/guest-commentary-awaiting-the-vatican/article_1ab16388-57bb-54f1-8cc6-4a533d1180ed.html

    By the way, your assertion that the Sisters’ apartments are “paid for by the Church” isn’t correct, to my understanding. These orders are, for the most part, self-funded and self-supported.

    http://anunslife.org/2008/10/07/wall-street-savvy-catholic-nuns/

    - Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA

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  19. Richard Wheeler says: 19

    Retire 05 Gotta agree with Repub. strategist Ed Rollins’ recent observance that Republican Party ” is becoming too white, too old and too fat.” I’d add too humorless.

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  20. Greg says: 20

    How odd that no one has commented on post #10.

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  21. mmercier says: 21

    You are still here ilovebeeswarzone. Every thing has its place. And time.

    Forgot this freesite… some round about link… thru retort or fr or whatnot.

    Godspeed to all here.

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  22. Nan G says: 22

    @Greg:
    Col. Tim Nye, a Special Operations Command spokesman, said the author “put himself in danger” by writing the book.

    This individual came forward. He started the process. He had to have known where this would lead,” Nye said. “He’s the one who started this so he bears the ultimate responsibility for this.

    According to a press release from his publisher, Penguin Group, “Owen (Bissonnette) was one of the first men through the door on the third floor of the terrorist leader’s hideout and was present at his death.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/23/author-bin-laden-raid-insider-account-idd-could-face-legal-trouble/#ixzz24WIn2HMH

    Sounds like he outed himself and had the help of his own publisher.
    Fox merely reported.

    Who gets the punishment for outing where SEAL team 6 was when this happened?
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/16/afghanistan-helicopter-crash-kills-11

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  23. mmercier says: 23

    Grinding out a four day migrane and reading this thread actually makes me wish the migrane would return.
    Intractable issues, and those who insatiably pursue such rare tastes… Add a new dimension to my understating.

    How many excedrine migrane ++p’s are required to sedate a man..?

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  24. Greg says: 24

    @Nan G, #22:

    Sounds like he outed himself and had the help of his own publisher.
    Fox merely reported.

    The CNN article suggests FOX may have revealed the name and the location without anyone’s consent. The book, which has yet to be released, was written under a pseudonym to protect the author’s identity.

    “A senior Pentagon official said Fox News did not contact the Department of Defense ahead of revealing the author’s name. Fox did not respond to a request for comment.”

    It will be interesting to see how the story develops.

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  25. mmercier says: 25

    Nan

    The things we know for fact about such operations are so far from fact that the lie is likely truth.

    Half those cited as sources never existd. The other half is bumming out because someone hacked their very identity and blew some $hit bird into the wind in yenen or zimbabwe.

    You give me laugh.

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  26. retire05 says: 26

    @openid.aol.com/runnswim:

    You said:

    “Blaming all Muslims 11 years after 9/11 is like blaming all Germans or all Japanese 11 years after World War II.”

    Here is the problem with that statement:

    1) we are still at war with radical Islam so you cannot compare it to being after a war

    2) if you were to take a poll of Americans 11 years after World War II, they would have still blamed Germans and the Japanese for the war.

    Also, I don’t think you are in a position to discuss the recruitement tactics of nuns in the ’60′s, but I am. Nuns at the time were not the free will advocates that you seem to think they were. Some of the orders began to rebel (it was a time of rebellion) and many women joined those orders that seemed to provide more freedom; i.e. freedom to not wear a habit, freedom to not live at the convent. But like the free love advocates of the ’60′s, they took it too far and wound up not resembling any religious order. Call them the hippies of the Catholic Church, if you like. And even with Vatican II, the Church doctrine regarding the religious orders did not change while the radical orders did. The mistake the Church made was not reigning in these orders long ago, and that same attitude lead to the acceptance of homosexuals into the priesthood, with disasterous effects.

    These nuns have a choice; they can leave the order or they can abide by the guidelines set by the Pope. Frankly, I wish they would just leave and not sully the reputation of the rest of the Church, which, in my opinion, they do.

    I am familiar with Tobias Winright, co-author of your linked article. Winright is a social justice/common good proponent and it is no surprise that he not only teaches at St. Louis University (do not conflate being a Catholic university with representing the opinions of the majority of Catholics) and a contributor to the Huffington Post, a blog that is far left. Frankly, as a conservative Catholic, St. Louis U is the last place I would send my kid to be indoctrinated educated.

    The Church has always supported healing the sick, caring for the elderly and giving a hand UP to the poor. Somewhere along the way, the American Catholic Church confused those issues with social justice and common good. It was wrong then, it is wrong now. Starting with the presidency of FDR, the Church allowed (stood by as) the federal government assumed the responsibility for the things the Church had always done (healing the sick, caring for the aged and giving a hand up to the poor). The fact of the matter is the American Church made a pact with the devil, and now it is coming back to bite them.

    It is a fact that the “active-life” (meaning no habit, no convent, social justice/common good) orders are diminishing while the more traditional orders are growing. The majority of young women now who enter the religious order life are not looking to mimic Sister Pat Ferral but Mother Theresa. They can still nurse, care for the elderly, aid the poor and then return to the convent, and prayer, after work. They realize there there is no purpose in joining an order that allows them to live like other social workers, only in poverty. And believe me, the Church tracks these trends.

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  27. openid.aol.com/runnswim says: 27

    Dear Retire,

    You say, regarding the 80% of American sisters represented by the LCWR:

    Frankly, I wish they would just leave and not sully the reputation of the rest of the Church, which, in my opinion, they do.

    You seem very hard hearted toward these elderly sisters. You remind me of Bill Donohue, in that you are both of the don’t-let-the-Church-door-hit-you-on-the-way-out persuasion. You both would do well to ponder the parable of the Lost Sheep: http://www.mycatholicsource.com/mcs/pcs/parables.htm#The%20Lost%20Sheep

    I’ve heard several conservative Catholics assert that the traditional, old fashioned religious orders are doing better than the orders which were inspired by Vatican II, prior to its reinterpretation by JP II. I don’t believe that this is correct:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/09/american-nuns-future_n_1762278.html

    In 1992 the Vatican set up a rival organization to the LCWR, called the Council of Major Superiors of Women Religious, or CMSWR, to serve as a home for more old-fashioned religious communities. The CMSWR umbrella now comprises convents with about 10,000 nuns, or about 20 percent of women religious in the U.S. as opposed to the 80 percent under the LCWR’s aegis.

    An analysis of vocations data to be published in the Aug. 13 edition of America magazine, a national Catholic weekly run by the Jesuits, shows that both traditional CMSWR and progressive LCWR communities are drawing the same number of vocations: Each has about 500 women in various stages of becoming vowed sisters.

    Moreover, other research shows that the retention rate in both types of orders is only about 50 percent.

    With regard to my first hand knowledge of nun recruitment and culture in the 1960s, I did have a little bit of first hand knowledge, by virtue of working as an orderly (nurses aid) in two different Catholic Hospitals, supervised by Sisters of Mercy and Charity, respectively. It was while I was at the former hospital that the Sisters first changed from the traditional, burka-like habits (neck to ankles and no hair showing) to a more “liberal” style (knee length; scalp hair exposed). One of the elderly sisters was so cute; she wouldn’t show herself for two days, until escorted out of the convent into the hospital by two other sisters. It’s one of the most indelible memories of that period of my life. Later on, I attended the final vows (“marriage”) ceremony of my wife’s first cousin and best friend, who also became a Sisters of Mercy nurse.

    But I didn’t quote my first hand experience; I quoted scholarly research of the era.

    With regard to your suggestion that the acceptance of homosexuals into the priesthood is a recent phenomenon, I strongly doubt that. It’s quite likely that there has been a disproportionate abundance of homosexuals in the priesthood since the earliest days of the Church. There has probably been abuse of altar boys for that long, also. Many of the more notorious abuse cases in the Irish Church were committed by priests ordained in the early 20th Century, not in the radical 60s (which was still an era of extreme homophobia), and certainly well before the great coming out era of the 90s. Most of the credit for the needed reforms belongs to the Boston Globe. If you don’t like gays in the Priesthood, thank the Boston Globe, the excellent investigative reporting of which led to Benedict’s current policy restricting ordination of homosexuals into the priesthood.

    With regard to the analogy between Muslims and Germans and Japanese, I’d also like to point out that the thinking and actions of the 9/11 terrorists was probably even more divorced from the thinking and actions of Muslims in general than were the respective feelings and actions of every day Germans and Japanese, with regard to being supportive of the perpetrators. i.e. Hitler was supported by a lot more Germans and Hirohito was supported by a lot more Japanese than bin Laden was supported by Muslims.

    For that matter, Timothy McVeigh was a registered Republican, NRA member, and confirmed Roman Catholic who asked to be annointed by a Priest prior to his execution.

    Demonizing an entire religion because of actions of a sociopathic individual or sect is unreasonable.

    - Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA

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  28. Richard Wheeler
    ED ROLLING should have balance his statement
    he should have also said the DEMOCRATS are becoming too outrageous, too hateful, too crooked

    ReplyReply
  29. I don’t think they can blame the SEAL because he wrote the story,
    if they try, they will put themselves in the trouble up to their necks.
    DAMNED to whoever divulge the location of the SEAL, HE IS ONE WHO SHOULD BE GOING TO JAIL,
    HE HAS DONE THE MOST AWFUL THING ANYONE CAN DO, HE SHOULD BE PROCECUTED FOR IT WITH FULL MEASURE OF THE LAW, HE IS A COWARD, GIVE US HIS NAME SO WE CAN TELL HIM TO HIS FACE,
    THE SEAL WROTE THAT BOOK , HE SHOWED HOW THIS WAR IS LEADING, THAT IS THE DEATH OF MANY BRAVES FOR NOTHING BUT REVENGE, AND IF THEY DON’T STOP THAT WAR, MANY MORE WILL BE MURDER. THIS IS NOT WAR, THIS IS PUTTING THE BRAVES TO BE MURDER BY COWARDS SHOOTING THEM IN THE BACK, AND THE SEAL IS SAYING IT IN UNWRITTEN WORDS THAT THE
    MILITARY ARE DYING FOR NOTHING, AND THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO LEVEL THAT AFGHANISTAN
    SO TO EXTERMINATE THEIR ENEMIES AND SUPPORTERS OF ENEMIES ALL AT ONCE,
    DON’T ANYONE BLAME ANYONE OF THE MILITARY, BLAME THE HIGHEST COMMAND FOR NOT HAVE DISCERN THIS BIG PROBLEM AND SEE THE TROUPS HAD ENOUGH OF IT,
    THEY CANNOT FIGHT THIS WAR WITH THEIR HAND TIED, AND THEY HAD ENOUGH OF IT,
    THE SEAL SEE IT AND AGAIN IS PUTTING HIS LIFE ON THE LINE TO TELL THE PEOPLE,
    THAT THEIR COMMANDER IN CHIEF IS SCREWING THE MILITARY FULL TIME AND GETTING THEM KILLED,
    HE IS GIVING A MESSAGE TO GET OBAMA OUT OF THERE,
    THIS IS A DESPERATE DEMAND TO THE CITIZENS TO HELP

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  30. mmercier
    hi,
    yes I’m still here, you miss quite a few good posts, are you always on exedrine?
    your head aches are telling you some messages, of there is something you’re
    doing too much, it’s not good to fool MOTHER NATURE WITH EXEDRINE,
    THE BEST THING TO DO IS NOT TAKING IT AT ALL, AND CLOSE YOUR EYES
    AND TRY TO SEE WHAT IS BEHIND YOUR EYES UNTIL SOMETHING COME UP, THEN, OPEN YOUR EYES AT ONCE WHEN IT COMES UP, THAT IS YOUR HEADACHE GOING OUT
    BYE

    ReplyReply
  31. Smorgasbord says: 31

    I would like to know where Obama is during the times that Muslims are supposed to pray each day. Just curious.

    ReplyReply
  32. another vet says: 32

    @Nan G:I’ll rest my case based on the colonel’s comments.

    ReplyReply
  33. retire05 says: 34

    @openid.aol.com/runnswim:

    Larry, I doubt that your casual association with Catholic nuns in a hospital setting compare to mine, not only being educated in a parochial school, but having sent my children to a parochial school, as well. When you deal with nuns, as teachers of your children, and you are an involved parent, it is not like talking to a nun about a hernia operation. But hey, I guess your attendence at a ceremony where someone took her vows provides you with more knowledge about the religious orders of my own faith, and 40 years of my own personal interaction with Catholic nuns.

    You do presume too much, Mr. Larry.

    And sorry, I do not accept anything written on HuffingtonPost which I consider just this side of Marxist.

    And perhaps you would like to show me all the protest marches by American Muslims denouncing 9-11? Please, don’t insult my intelligence by pointing to a few isolated Muslims, like Dr. Jasser, who has been a strong voice in denouncing radical Islam. And maybe you forgot that when Pearl Harbor happened, German and Japanese Americans enlisted in record numbers. That didn’t happen with the Muslim community after 9-11.

    As to Timothy McVeigh; seems everyone who is facing the death sentence manages to find God in prison.

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  34. openid.aol.com/runnswim says: 35

    Dear Retire,

    You discounted the statistics regarding “progressive” versus “traditional” vocations, because I linked a HuffPo article about them. Here’s another article quoting the very same study, from a Catholic publication. I suppose that you’ll discount the original study itself, simply because it was carried out by Georgetown Jesuits, and I suppose you’ll claim that they just made up the data — fine, if you do so, kindly provide some actual data from an actual comparative study of “progressive” versus “traditional” religious vocations — otherwise, I’ll consider the numbers quoted below to be the most accurate, objective, contemporary data available:

    http://www.americamagazine.org/content/article.cfm?article_id=13534

    The information on religious life we report here comes from U.S. data published in the Official Catholic Directory, statistics for the church worldwide published in the Statistical Yearbook of the Church and a 2009 study of religious institutes in the U.S. conducted by the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate at Georgetown University and commissioned by the National Religious Vocation Conference.

    By the Numbers

    As of 2009, there were 729,371 sisters, 54,229 brothers and 135,051 religious priests in the world. These overall figures, however, mask a wide variation: some countries have experienced a decline in recent years, while in other countries the number of religious has increased.

    CARA statistics for the United States show 55,944 sisters, 4,606 brothers and 12,629 religious priests in 2010. As commentators note, there has been a decline in the total number of religious in the United States since the peak in 1965. But the difficulty with that commonly cited starting point is that it denotes an exceptional period in U.S. Catholic history (the 1950s and 1960s). Never, before or since, have numbers serving in vowed and ordained ministry been as high. A longer view, say across the entire 20th century, shows just how unusual that 20-year period was. In 1900, the United States had almost 50,000 sisters. According to the Official Catholic Directory, the number of sisters peaked at 181,421 in 1965. This was an astounding increase of 265 percent in just 65 years.

    Behind the Numbers

    The N.R.V.C./CARA study surveyed all religious institutes that are based in the United States and received completed responses from about two-thirds of them; these responses, however, account for well over 80 percent of all women and men religious in the United States. Among responding institutes of women religious, L.C.W.R. members are two-thirds of all respondents, institutes belonging to the Council of Major Superiors of Women Religious (C.M.S.W.R.) are 14 percent and 1 percent belong to both groups. The remaining fifth are contemplative monasteries or newly formed religious institutes ineligible for membership in either leadership conference.

    1.) One of the most striking findings regarding new entrants is that almost equal numbers of women have been attracted to institutes in both conferences of women religious in the U.S. in recent years. As of 2009, L.C.W.R. institutes reported 73 candidates/postulants, 117 novices and 317 sisters in temporary vows/commitment. C.M.S.W.R. institutes reported 73 candidates/postulants, 158 novices and 304 sisters in temporary vows/commitment. (There are 150 nuns in formation in U.S. monasteries.)

    2.) Another key finding is that the youngest generation of religious women looks increasingly similar to the youngest generation of adults in the church. The sisters and nuns in initial formation today are 61 percent white; 16 percent Latina; 16 percent Asian/Pacific Islander; 6 percent African American and 1 percent other.

    3.) A sizable proportion of L.C.W.R. and C.M.S.W.R. institutes have no one in formation at the present time (32 percent and 26 percent respectively). This, of course, does not preclude these institutes having new membership in the future.

    4.) The median number of entrants to L.C.W.R. institutes is one, which means that half of the responding L.C.W.R. institutes had no more than one woman in initial formation in 2009. The corresponding median number of entrants for C.M.S.W.R. institutes is four, which means that half of C.M.S.W.R. institutes had four or fewer in initial formation in 2009. Since there are far fewer C.M.S.W.R. member institutes than L.C.W.R. institutes, the key finding here is that only a very small number of institutes are attracting more than a handful of entrants. It is this very small group of institutes, however, that is attracting the most media attention. Few are paying attention to the fine work of N.R.V.C. and the religious institutes from both leadership conferences that have initiated new vocation programs, which have galvanized the energy of the institutes and hold the promise of further growth in the near future.

    5.) The vast majority of both L.C.W.R. and C.M.S.W.R. institutes do not have large numbers of new entrants. Instead of focusing a media spotlight on a few institutes and generalizing inaccurately from them, it is essential to probe what is happening across the entire spectrum of institutes to understand the full complexity of religious life in the United States today.

    You seem to want to assert that you are more Catholic than I am. That’s fine. I readily concede that you are more Catholic than I am. But I cited actual academic research on what caused today’s 70 year old nuns to enter into religious vocations in the 1960s. You cite personal experience.

    The percentage of people engaging in “protest marches” is very small. This even goes for the Tea Party (as a percentage of its membership). And Tea Party marchers (and other marchers for various political causes) don’t have to worry about radicals targeting them, if they are identified as marchers. This is not, unfortunately, the case with rank and file Muslims who are viewed by radicals as apostates, for opposing their “cause.”

    As far as people speaking out in other ways, well, we live in a society where people like you are afraid even to use their own names in public discourse, turning First Amendment rights into a meaningless shell, as people everywhere are free to scrawl anonymous graffiti. It’s again an unfortunate fact that there are radical Islamic fanatics who are quite capable and willing to inflict harm on apostates.

    Additionally, while no one denies the existence of radical Islam, even Christians (Northern Ireland) and Jews (King David Hotel) are capable of resorting to terrorism in pursuit of their political goals.

    It’s wrong to demonize an entire religion for the actions of a group of fanatics.

    - Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA

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  35. retire05 says: 36

    @openid.aol.com/runnswim:

    You are trying to argue apples and oranges. Yes, some joined certain religious orders in the ’60′s-’70 that gave them more freedom to live just like any other single woman, and distancing themselves from the tradition of religious life. I never debated that. But it is also true, born out by the very study you cited, the CARA survey, which is quite lengthy, but which also bears out my claim; that the cloistered orders are seeing a growth, why the free lifestyle orders are not. Perhaps you should be more specific about what we are debating because it seems we are on different wave lengths.

    The CARA survey showed that young women entering the religious life wanted to do so in the traditional way, which included living in a convent and wearing the religious habit daily, not just occasionally or not at all. So the orders that offer the same freedom as any other single woman has, sans the sex, are diminishing, not growing.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2012-08-23/nuns-convent/57236966/1

    and

    http://the-american-catholic.com/2010/05/21/booming-traditional-religious-orders/

    Now, you seem to want to infer that if Muslims marched, they would be subjected to “radicals targeting them.” That is just factually wrong and actually, a lie. Thousands of Muslims blocked the streets of New York for a mass prayer rally. Not one was injured and there were no reports of being “targeted” by radicals. The same thing happened in Washington, D.C.. Perhaps you would like to tell me the number of arrests of radicals that “targeted” those Muslims during those events? But you do make a valid point; any Muslim who doesn’t subscribe the the dictate that America is the big Satan and Israel is the little Satan, is considered an apostate. Now, how many of those radical thinking Muslims do you think exist in our nation? Falls Church, Va. mosque ring a bell? Or are they really radical thinking? Is it that those like Dr. Jasser are actually the exception, and not the norm? Islam, in and of itself, is not compatable with western philosphy. It is not wrong to demonize an entire religion when the majority of its religionists want to destroy the U.S., even if it is one person at a time.

    The FBI lists hate crimes against Muslims as the lowest of any segment of our nation. More Jews are victims of hate crimes than any other group. Islamophobia is a trumped up claim by CAIR, an unindicted co-conspirator in the Holyland Foundation trials. No mosques have been burned, and only a couple have even seen vandalism, compared to the vandalism against synagogues.

    And why should I use my name here when no one else on this website does? I understand that you think you are invincible, but it only takes one nut to ruin your world. I am not willing to take that chance, you are free to do so. I guess you also want my address, phone number and bank balance as proof of who I am?

    As to the Christians of Northern Ireland; the Brits that occupy northern Ireland considered themselves no less Christian than the Catholics. But they damn sure didn’t mind oppressing the Catholics, did they? And yet, no Catholic flew large planes into Buckingham Palace.

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  36. sablegsd says: 37

    ovomit is a koranimal. No doubt at all. Even his “pastor” in the kill whitey church of dipshits said he never “CONVERTED” ovomit from pisslam to whatever he calls his warped, satan based “Christian” social club.

    ReplyReply
  37. Greg says: 38

    @sablegsd, #37:

    This will be twice in a row that the Republican National Convention to be disrupted by a tropical storm. Maybe God is sending you guys a message.

    ReplyReply
  38. mmercier says: 39

    To the young, new things are… interesting
    To the grown, new things are… amusing

    To those who have been there and done that ad naueum, things become… tedious.

    It is the responsibility of those who understand the nature of man to pass on their knowledge while simultaneously incorporating the new information into evolving paradigm.

    It is unutterably weary and tiresome. I stole that line from an dead communist bitch.

    She is still dead.

    ReplyReply
  39. mmercier says: 40

    It is also the responsibility of man to use wo/man, and commas, when screeding, without wood.

    I am so going to grammar hell. My eighth grade english teacher is strapping on her leathers in hades at this moment.

    She was hot in more ways than the one.

    ReplyReply
  40. Marine72 says: 41

    @Nan G: Actually 70% 0r greater.

    ReplyReply
  41. Marine72 says: 42

    @openid.aol.com/runnswim: Larry: Please explain your personal experience in the Islamic regions of the world. Starting with desert Shield/Storm through Iraqi freedom in 2005/06, my actual experience was exactly the opposite of the above sample of your apparent disbelief of the Islamic peoples who have recently re-implemented the tried and true Roman practice of crucifixion for all their problem children. Not sure what is worse, death by stoning or hanging from a cross.

    ReplyReply
  42. Nan G says: 43

    Dems will have Cardinal Dolan pray at their convention!
    Isn’t his hometown Chicago?

    ReplyReply
  43. openid.aol.com/runnswim says: 44

    Hi Marine,

    Beyond three business trips to Turkey (Ankara and Istanbul), I have no personal experience in “the Muslim world.” I have had the pleasure of working with and knowing a considerable assortment of Muslims in my professional and personal life, including a fairly large number of medical and radiation oncologists, surgeons, a PhD scientist (my host on my last business trip to Turkey), a Kuwaiti graduate student of mine, my long time barber, my long time Iranian auto mechanic (a mechanical engineer in Iran) — who lets me pick up my car after hours and not pay him for months for the work he did, until I bring the car in the next time for the next service, and so on.

    I don’t know in what capacity you interacted with every day Muslims in your war time tours of duty. I will say that you were not invited to come into their countries to do what you did, and sometimes uninvited guests are not treated with proper respect. I rather think that my own personal interactions are more real worldly representative. Your examples of crucifixion and stoning are newsworthy, because they are sensationalistic and unusual/atypical. When it comes to both murders and executions, we non-Islamic Americans are truly world class.

    - Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA

    ReplyReply
  44. openid.aol.com/runnswim says: 45

    Hi Nan,

    It’s a great move, by both Dolan and the Dems (and the GOP, for that matter). I am greatly troubled by the politicization which has occurred recently within the US Magesterium. I don’t like it when priests are given marching orders essentially to give thinly-veiled don’t-vote-for-Obama speeches during mass. I believe I previously referred to a homily I heard, in which the priest said (fairly exact quote): “this President is the most anti-Catholic President we’ve ever had — he’s like Hitler.” I got up and walked out, wrote a letter to the Parish pastor, and got a nice reply. Then switched to a Vietnamese parish, where the priest’s heavily-accented English homilies rarely rise to the level of intelligible.

    Anyway, I’d love to believe that Dolan is going to try to dial down the partisan politics. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and await his closing prayer. I note also that the Dems are giving Sr. Simone Campbell the opportunity to speak. I’m hopeful that she’ll speak to universally shared values in a non-partisan fashion.

    - LW/HB

    ReplyReply
  45. Nan G says: 46

    @openid.aol.com/runnswim:
    Ask a few of your many Muslim associates to explain, in their own words, the two obligations of Muslims in Islam; Fard Ayn and Fard Kifayah.
    I’ll tell you what my Arabic teacher (and an imam) used as explanation.
    He said, Fard Ayn is akin to the Golden Rule or Ten Commandments in that EVERY Muslim as an individual was required abide by all obligations of Fard Ayn.
    But, read that short story (available online) by Shirley Jackson called, ”The Lottery,” to understand Fard Kifayah.
    An imam or caliph, ulema or other Islamic leader can put out the call to the Islamic community for some to come forward on behalf of the entire community.
    These few might be called on to go and fight jihad.
    Their doing so relieves all the rest from fighting, although they should act in support, usually financially as in giving the zagat so the jihadists do not need support themselves on top of everything else.
    1/8th of one’s zagat (tithe is a close understanding) goes to jihad.

    ReplyReply
  46. Greg says: 47

    An imam or caliph, ulema or other Islamic leader can put out the call to the Islamic community for some to come forward on behalf of the entire community.
    These few might be called on to go and fight jihad.
    Their doing so relieves all the rest from fighting, although they should act in support, usually financially as in giving the zagat so the jihadists do not need support themselves on top of everything else.

    Why does this sound vaguely familiar?

    ReplyReply
  47. Dav Iwojimi says: 48

    Please tell me, please that you are not so freaking blind as to sill believe that big joke called 911,, no plane hit th pentagon, it was clearly a missile, It was openly admitted by Larry Silverstein that he gave the order to ‘pull’
    ( implode) so many people quit their jobs because theysay they just couldn’t lie Building 7. So many government workers quit their jobs, according to them, becaus they just couldn’t keep lying to America…And so many witnesses to the explosions have ended up committing ‘suicide, over 120 witnesses mysteriously died!… God, there were so many Fruedian slips from Government officials, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, on and on, saying missile instead of ‘plane’,its quite well as if they want us to know they were responsible!!! All the highjackrs they named are all alive, this was featured on B.B.C. for years, have you been in a cave in Afghanistan? Or what?@Common Sense:

    ReplyReply
  48. Dav Iwojimi
    can you repeat your two comments in your own tongue?

    ReplyReply

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