Brian Terry’s parents:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0ZSBMpJvp8[/youtube]
And here is just one reminder on why Obama and pals started the operation in the first place:
Documents obtained by CBS News show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) discussed using their covert operation “Fast and Furious” to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.
Hundreds died, along with one of our Border Patrol agents, all because they wanted more gun control.
The left is crying that this is all politics in an election year. But I would remind them that none of this would have happened if this administration had just been truthful from the beginning. Admit they made a mistake and take their lumps a year ago. But no. As we see, the cover-up is usually much more damaging than the actual crime:
February 4, 2011: Responding to an inquiry from Sen. Charles Grassley, Assistant Attorney General Ronald Weich writes that top officials had only recently learned about the ATF gun-running program, but that nothing improper was done in the operation. Weich also asserts that any allegation that the ATF knowingly allowed the sale of assault weapons to a straw purchaser who then transported them into Mexico is false. “ATF makes every effort to interdict weapons that have been purchased illegally and prevent their transportation to Mexico,” Weich wrote.
Whistleblowers then stepped forward to tell Congress that this was a lie. Holder tells Congress that he only recently had learned about the operation.
Issa then asked for a documents pertaining to the decision making on withdrawing that February 2011 letter.
And now Obama asserts executive privilege on these documents.
Come on…who can’t see this is a cover-up?
A few Senators can see it and are asking for Holder’s resignation:
The furor between the White House and Capitol Hill Republicans continued to rise in the upper chamber on Thursday as Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), a leading front-runner for the GOP vice presidential ticket, and Sen. Dan Coats (R-Ind.) both called for Holder’s resignation.
“I think we’ve about reached the point of no return on this issue,” said Rubio at a Christian Science Monitor breakfast. “I think they’ve been given multiple opportunities to answer very legitimate questions that the Congress has.”
I’m thinking his resignation is the least that should happen. Being led away in handcuffs is what’s appropriate now.
See author page
Ditto
thank you,it’s very revealing
@ AYE
yes, thank you for the video,
@Greg: The rude awakening came when they elected 0-bama and no proper vetting by the MSM.
J.G. I feel I give pretty straight forward answers in a KISS manner as in ‘Holder should resign if he’s lying’ This is not a 2nd Amendment issue.Bring in the ATF agents in charge for questioning.
You don’t agree with much of what I say. Fine Isn’t that what this is about?
Would rather I just rubber stamp your posits?
i’m a Dem. and a Fighting Irish fan, You a Conserv.and bleed BLUE. That’s what keeps life interesting.
This great country is much bigger than any Party or individual. You’ll survive this Presidency as I survived “W’. Stay positive and smile Season opens in about 9 weeks.
@Greg:
Funny, when someone in a department rats on a republican, they are “brave whistle blowers.” If someone rats on the left, they’re criminal moles.
You crack me up.
Rich Wheeler
you say you’ll survive this PRESIDENCY AS I SURVIVED W,
but, don’t you think about the many at the end of their pennies box unable to meet their bills,
and gave up looking for jobs that disappeared, because of this PRESIDENCY, and will only survive when MITT ROMNEY come in to change the direction
of this COUNTRY,
AN IRISH DEM like you could not care for other having a hard time because
of GOVERNMENT OVER REACH, WHICH KILL JOBS,
but the IRISH CONSERVATIVES do care for their fellow AMERICAN as johngalt demonstrated ,
so clearly,
@Richard Wheeler:
No, not at all, and you know that isn’t what I’m saying.
And most of us here believe that you don’t do so. We also see that your responses tend towards the character assasination techniques Obama favors. That is, avoid the main topic of discussion by focusing on the figure instead of their point. You do realize that is a major favorite tactic of Alinsky disciples, right?
Obama is hardly W, Rich. As someone who lived in Illinois for much of his life, and knows Chicago politics pretty good, I knew what Obama was about long before you and the rest of the country became mesmerized by the false facade he and the D party used to get him elected. I didn’t, and still don’t, expect anyone, including you to take my word on what a degenerate Obama is. I do expect that people would at least have an objective view of Obama and realize that he is nothing more than a nationalized Chicago thug in politics who doesn’t just lean to the left, but rather, has planted his base ideology on the failed socialist ideals of Stalin and Hitler. Too extreme for you to ingest? That’s only because you still wear your rose-colored glasses the Democratic party handed out in 2004 that painted Obama in a much different light than what he really is.
But the socialist ideology that Obama pushes isn’t the worst part about him, Rich. No, the worst part about him is his use of Chicago-style thug politics to push that agenda. You and the majority of the liberals in this country are so enamored with Obama though that you cannot see him for what he really is. Someday, Rich, you will wake up and realize that Obama is/was the worst thing to happen to our country in a long time, and that his tenure at the top elective posting in our country has so damaged the country in so many ways that we really would have been better off without him.
Survive Obama? We’ll see if the damage he has inflicted is irreparable when he is gone, which cannot be too soon, in my opinion. Obama isn’t just an exercise in political ideological differences, as Bush or Clinton was. Obama is the epitome of what the core of the left-wing is about these days. You are just too blind to see that the left today isn’t the Democratic Party you thought you belonged to.
The left is full of lunacy today, Rich, and you are following along with their herd oblivious to reality. That is the only explanation for your parroting their beliefs about the right, conservatives, the TEA party, the “birthers”, and many other topics of discussion. It’s why you’ve adopted their tactics to “discuss” the issues. But mainly, it’s why you continue to see Obama in a completely different, and innocent, light than what he really is. You’ve swallowed the Kool-aid and you are either too proud,or obstinate, to admit it, or you are just too naive to see it.
JG, let’s not forget the other tactic the left is using. They want to pretend it was just another botched government operation, that there is nothing to see here, and the GOP is just playing politics. We all know had it been a Republican administration they would be after this hammer and tongs and it would be on the MSM news daily.
Yes, the previous effort under the Bush admin was a failure, but it is clear that F&F was not an honest effort gone bad.
The left might also have an argument that this was not a gun control effort gone bad, except for all the gun control stooges using this as a call for more gun control. Well, that and the internal memo pointing out how this will justify more gun control.
J.G. You rail agaist character assassination then paint me a marxist,a socialist and a disciple of Alinsky. You label the President a “degenerate”. This John,is not the language of an erudite informed man.
I’m no more a Marxist and disciple of Alinsky than you.
I’m a Dem. in the tradition of F.D.R and J.F.K. I welcome new ideas without rigid reactions. I’ll support someone who cares most about the welfare of the people,their health,their housing,their schools,their jobs,their civil rights and their civil liberties.I believe we must protect our environment and maintain a strong military.
I’m an idealist without delusions.
Unlike you I think Obama a man of good intentions.He’s in over his head and in addition is getting no help from the loyal opposition.Can Romney do better? I look forward to the debates and am keeping an open mind. Would love to see Rubio in the mix.
Rich, this site and others has been over how F.D.R. isn’t someone to emulate economically.
As for the dem party, it most certainly is not the party of J.F.K. and has not been for some time. J.F.K. could not be it’s presidential candidate today considering his views.
H.R. The Dem Party has a big tent including daughter Caroline and niece Maria Shriver. As a teenager I met J.F.K. I believe he would proudly lead today’s Dem. Party Believe F.D.R. a great leader who guided us through our toughest hours.
@Richard Wheeler:
Never called you a socialist, Rich, nor did I call you a “disciple of Alinsky”. I merely pointed out that you support socialist politicians and that you use Alinsky type tactics in discussions.
No, it is the language of truth. What else do you call a man who flaunts direct unConstitutional actions in the face of America, who bows to heads of other countries, and who tells Americans to reign in their spending while he goes on 100+ golf outings, vacations in high-falutin’ style, and parties around the country on the taxpayer’s dime?
I’d agree with the FDR part, but not JFK. FDR introduced the country to social welfare programs that do not work, something you support Obama for doing as well. And just because you identify with JFK does not make it so, Rich.
Keep telling yourself that, Rich. Meanwhile, the rest of us will live in reality.
Oh, I don’t know whether or not Obama has good intentions, Rich. I’ve hinted that he doesn’t, and if one looked objectively at his actions since becoming President, and compared them to the actions one would take to seriously damage the country, they parallel one another. There is smoke there, Rich. And usually where you find smoke, you find fire. Take that as you will.
As I stated above, Obama is a Chicago thug style politician. You do not see that as you still appear to be blinded from his “halo” the MSM adorned him with.
@Richard Wheeler:
And also saddled the country with future debts we cannot pay for. And your answer is to support Obama who wishes to take more from those who produce to give to those who don’t. Sadly, though, even FDR would have a rough time getting elected within today’s Democratic party. They have traveled that far to the left. Step outside the box, Rich. Step away from the Democratic liberal/progressive spin machine for once and objectively view the actions by them. If you truly are a man of honesty and integrity, your conscience won’t allow you to support that degenerate party any more.
As an aside, I have done just that with the GOP and do not support them anymore. I will vote for GOP candidates I feel are good, but won’t blindly support or defend the GOP. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it. When will you do the same and start calling a spade a spade, Rich?
@Richard Wheeler:
This of course has nothing to do with the original subject issue. But since we have migrated there:
However, Richard the problem is that the DNC national and State party Hierarchy has been continually culling “moderate” and the rare “conservative” Democratic from it’s stables of office holders and candidates. Some for the mere “crimes” of fraternizing with or actually compromising with Republicans. (Rather than the Party Power Holder’s favorite practice of the last couple decades of insisting that Republicans continually compromise without themselves yielding any concessions, and calling any balking of the Republicans as “obstructionism”.) Thus the evolution of the Democratic Party has been to the extreme socialistic left. This isn’t the Democratic party your father or grandfather’s knew, as for the most part the party moderates have been either forced to toe the new party line, or shown the door. The “Progressive” (aka Socialist) wing has taken over and is what has caused the extreme polarization of the citizens, as the Party manipulate the public social class, orientation and racial demographics of society against each other with propaganda campaigns creating a less perfect union. All in the Progressive end goal of putting everything under the power of the a Despotic-elitist controlled Federal government, who will decide what rights they allow the people to retain, providing favoritism to those who support the party cause, while taking away rights from those who oppose them.
The Republican party leadership, on the other hand has done itself real damage, by listening to the Democrats and (by ignoring it’s base,) turning more moderate and too easily giving in time and time again and allowing the balance to move away from traditional moderate compromises into the leftist realm, so long as the Democrats throw a bone to the Establishment Republican elite’s few special interests (low capital gains taxes, support of PAC’s and Super PAC’s & “free trade agreements”). As a result the Establishment Republican hierarchy has also moved so far to the left, corrupted by their own “for profit” progressive agenda and world-corporatist special interest contributors, that they no longer reflect their original party’s platform. They have ignored their base and conservative and constitutionalist fellows, whoring themselves to curry media favor and in search of that most corrupting of influences, Campaign funds.
This is what has caused so many Americans to have lost faith in both parties, and government at all levels. The corruption of political money and faction-ism is destroying this nation, and Richard, Greg and Liberal1 are cheerleaders in favor of those agendas that are leading to our nation’s destruction. You fiddle “while Rome burns,” and rejoice in blind adoration of those who dismantle our Constitution, in worship of a coming mythical utopian society of “unicorns and rainbows”, (Spreading the same “progressive” propaganda which has always resulted in totalitarian despotism where the people are serfs to the state.) That is why most of us on FA oppose you. While I honor your military service to our country, I despise that you no longer follow your oath: to protect this nation and it’s Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic, and that you have joined the “progressive” ideology that considers the Constitution to be flawed and works to undermine or ignore it in favor of their own political expediency. Your “progressive” agenda is antithesis to the wise counsel and intent the Founders held to be all important for the creation and continuation of this nation.
Ditto
WOW, didn’t I told you before that you could be a super PRESIDENT,
THIS IS A PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH, YOU MADE JUST NOW,
a real treasure to behold and repeated in the books of school young who want to learn
about THE UNITED STATES, THE REAL ONES, WHICH WILL SURFACE AFTER THIS NOVEMBER ELECTION,
because you and other had given their all to explain what AMERICA IS ABOUT,
AND WHAT SHE DEMAND OF EACH AMERICAN TO REMEMBER HER FREEDOM GIVEN,
AND HOW THEY ALL SHOULD PROTECT IT AGAINST THE LIES AND PROMISSES OF FALSE AMERICAN
SEEKING TO CHANGE THIS COUNTRY FOREVER, YOU ALL HEARD IT, DIDN’T YOU?
CHANGE AMERICA FOREVER? YOU ALL SHOULD HAVE LISTEN AND FREAKED UP BY THOSE WORDS,
BUT NO YOU ELECT THE FALSE PERSON SHOUTING AND NOW HE IS STILL SHOUTING,
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?
@Ditto
Here’s some more info behind the purpose of the “Gunwalker” program, which F&F is only one state, out of 10 or so. It pertains to Carter’s Country in the Houston area. ATF told them to proceed with suspicious sales, then tried to prosecute them for it. F&F came to light, and the persecutuion stopped.
http://www.examiner.com/article/guardian-blames-gun-shop-for-gun-trafficking-ignores-gunwalker-connection
@Hard Right, #59:
Nor would Ronald W. Reagan’s positions and openness to compromise allow him make it through the right’s gauntlet to a GOP nomination for the presidency. Even some on the right have pointed that out.
@Greg:
Really, Greg? Then explain the nomination of both John McCain and Mitt Romney, both who tack farther to the left than Ronald Reagan did. And what you call “compromise” on the part of Reagan was actually the fact that he was outnumbered by a Democrat held Senate and House of Representatives.
@Greg:
BZZZT! WRONG!
1) The “some on the right” you refer to is a RINO. Jeb Bush. Did you really think we wouldn’t catch your lie?
http://battlegroundwatch.com/2012/06/13/enough-with-the-fallacy-reagan-could-not-get-the-gop-nomination-today/
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/302904/myth-good-conservative-jonah-goldberg#
Not to mention there is a difference. The dems have moved radically left. They tried to kick lieberman out of Congress because he disagreed with them on one issue. JFK was much more of a hawk and fiscal conservative than the modern dem party will tolerate. Today, he’d be a Republican.
Reagan would never have gotten elected in today’s CA thus rendering the whole nomination thing moot.
Dole, W, McCain, and Romney and the GOP is too right wing? Quit smoking crack greg.
@Hard Right, #68:
Lie?
Do you think for a moment that the tax rates Ronald Reagan considered necessary and reasonable–or his stated opposition to setting capital gain rates lower than regular income rates–would have stood muster these days?
The GOP of today isn’t the GOP of Ronald Reagan. By Reagan’s standard, republicans have gone totally nuts. I remember those days. I voted for Reagan in two presidential elections.
@Greg:Ronald Reagan’s son disagrees with you.
http://www.newsmax.com/Reagan/RonaldReagan-TeaParty-Obamacare/2010/10/27/id/375068
@Greg:
greg, you said those on the right. Jeb Bush is not on the right as I pointed out above.
Reagan would definitely be a Republican. So would J.F.K. Again, Regan would never get elected in CA which quashes any chance of him being the nominee in modern times. So it wouldn’t be the GOP keeping him from the pick. It would be the left. Also in moderen times, there is no way he’d make the same choice on immigration. Different times.
The dems have been taken over by the loony America hating left. J.F.K. would want no part of today’s dem leadership and they wouldn’t let him in.
@another vet, #70:
Isn’t Michael the guy who is selling @Reagan.com e-mail addresses for $39.95 a pop?
Ron Reagan would probably suggest that his adopted brother Michael isn’t his father’s official spokesman.
@Greg:
Ron Reagan can say all he wants, but Michael Reagan is just as much Ronald Reagan’s son as Ron is. Besides, Ron is bat sh!t crazy.
@Greg: You’re right. His opinion as a son of Reagan doesn’t matter because it doesn’t support left wing thought. Obama, who never met the man and probably despised him up until the time he tried to invoke his legacy to better his political fortunes, is a far better source as to what the man’s beliefs were. I guess Nancy’s opinions don’t matter either since she wasn’t his first wife.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/01/nancy-reagan-mitt-romney_n_1561354.html
another vet
ouch, you stab him, and cut the tip of his tongue
before he could shot his mouth.
bye
@Greg:
Reagan went along with Tip on tax increases in exchange for spending cuts that never came. GHWB broke his no new taxes pledge in exchange for spending cuts that never came.
Time and time again, the GOP has gone along with tax increases in exchange for spending cuts. The tax increases become law and the democrats vote down the spending cuts. EVERY SINGLE TIME!
And you expect the GOP to agree to do it once more because the democrats keep their word?
No! Spending cuts first, then we’ll see what taxes need to be raised. Let’s see if your side can keep their word first.
Aqua
yes for sure, and if the GOPS WOULD SEE AN EFFORT FROM THE DEMS TO CUT THE SPENDING, THEY WOULD PARTICIPATE IN HELPING by supporting the effort, but there is nothing concrete done,
and OBAMA is pushing his dreamed ideas, not good for the jobs to start coming,
he refuse to take advices from the other side, nothing will ever come from OBAMA’S IDEAS,
HE IS STUCK ON IT
@retire05:
Ron is also a proven liar. He claimed medical ailments for Reagan that Regan’s doctors said never happened. This is also confirmed by Reagan’s other close friends at the time.
As for F&F
1) holder claimed he had shut it down in 2010
2) In 2011 holder testified that he had only learned about F&F a few weeks before the hearing.
Additional info.
http://dailycaller.com/2012/06/25/atf-leaders-email-could-be-fast-and-furious-smoking-gun-and-holder-admitted-obama-cant-shield-it/
So greg, keep spreading the lies. It only shows why people new to the site should ignore you.
@Hard Right:
Oh, I don’t know if people should ignore Greg, HR. He is an excellent example of the lunacy of the left, as well as providing textbook examples of hypocrisy.
@johngalt:
Haha. That is a good point.
John Galt and Ditto Thanks for your comments in 61-63. I come here for commentary from folks like yourselves, Mata, Aye. Word and ofcourse Skooks Not so fast Retire05, H.R. lol
My “progressive” bent,as mentioned, goes back to JFK. and RFK Two men who championed the less fortunate. They made you proud to be Americans.JFK stood against tyrants like Khruschev. Though wounded he championed fitness. He appreciated and championed the arts.
I GUARANTEE all here. These men would NOT be Republicans today,
I see younger people inspired by R.R. and I understand.
Our country needs more leaders like JFK and R.R. I, like many, had great hope for BHO. It’s been a tough 3+ years Saw little from Repub. contenders. Expecting great things from Marco Rubio.
Semper Fi
@ilovebeeswarzone:
Thank you again Bees for your kind words. Yes, you hove honored me in the past with that opinion, however I must admit that most voters who look at me would scoff at such a consideration. I am not a “mover and shaker.” I don’t have an alpha or even beta appearance (being rather short and chubby, much like one of the Three Stooges.) My record of achievements is rather unimpressive, and worse yet for electability, I am one of the many poor and chronically underemployed more often described as “white trash,” born of rural beginnings and raised in a broken home. I have indeed considered running for office, but lack the financial ability to do so. I have only my words, a simplistic opinion of right and wrong, and a love for this nation and it’s Constitution to run on.
Poor rich. Such denial. J.F.K would not be welcome in the dem party today.
Like I said, his hawkish views on fighting the enemy would get him bounced like Lieberman.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I also doubt he’d be for the far left bent or their suicidal levels of spending.
Ditto
YES,AMERICA WOULD BE BLESS TO HAVE YOU AS PRESIDENT,
AND MORE AS YOU ARE SO HUMBLY PRESENTING YOURSELF,
BUT YOU OMIT TO STATE THE EFFERVESENCE OF YOUR INTELLIGENCE,
WHICH I SEE IN YOUR COMMENTS, ALL OF THEM.
SO SORRY THAT IT TAKE SO MUCH MONEY TO BUY THE PRESIDENCY,
was the FRAMERS of this AMERICA where rich?
when they sat down to create the laws of the land, which
did only take sound bright minds enlighten with
the WISDOM OF A GOD GIVEN BELIEF TO HELP THEM SHAPE THE FUTURE OF THIS SUPER UNITED STATES IN A LAND
OF FREEDOM FOR PEOPLE COMING FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD TO LOVE AND PROSPER FOR GENERATIONS TO COME,
WHERE THE CREATIVITY SEND AMERICAN TO WALK ON THE MOON FOR THE WORLD TO ENVY OR PRAISE,
WHERE DID ALL THIS PRESTIGE OF ACCOMPLISHMENT GO?
WELL IT IS NOT LOST, just not allowed to florrish, it is restrained by a GOVERNMENT ENVIOUS OF THE CITIZENS WHO THINK FOR THEMSELVES the ones gifted are stopped in their quest to create, but it will come back with a new president who will not envy but support the bright achievers,
as it happened before AMERICA FELL IN DEPRESSION
AND HAD ALL THE DOORS CLOSE ON THEM, EXCEPT FOR THE ONLY CHOSEN WHO ARE LIVING IN THE PEOPLE’S WHITE HOUSE
BYE