7 Feb

You lie! Obama claims that Islam teaches the law of love [Reader Post]

                                       

At last Thursday’s National Prayer Breakfast Obama claimed that his policies are motivated by “God’s command to ‘love thy neighbor as thyself’.” He then conflated this law of love with the golden rule, and made a blatantly dishonest claim about Islam:

I know the version of that Golden Rule is found in every major religion and every set of beliefs — from Hinduism to Islam to Judaism to the writings of Plato

In fact, Islam repeatedly and explicitly rejects the law of love, teaching instead a law of hate.

When Jesus was asked “who is my neighbor?” (Luke 10:29), he answered (via the parable of the good Samaritan) that everyone is everyone’s neighbor. Islam, in contrast, instructs Muslims to be good only to other Muslims. Koran, verse 48.29:

Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves.

Verse 3.28 says that Muslims can only pretend to befriend infidels:

Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them.

Of course we are very familiar with this in practice, as one revealed terror-plotter after another is described by surprised neighbors and co-workers as the nicest guy.

That” Golden Rule vs. “The” Golden Rule

I guess Obama can call the law of love “that Golden Rule” if he wants, but there actually is a corollary of the law love (implied by the law of love but not implying it) that is called THE Golden Rule: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” (Matthew 7:12). There is a hadith in Islam (a reported saying of Muhammad) that is similar in form to the Golden Rule, but opposite in substance. It only calls for goodwill towards other Muslims:

None of you will have faith till he wishes for his (Muslim) brother what he likes for himself.

Bukhari 1.2.13, translated by M. Muhsin Khan.

Preceding hadiths back up Kahn’s non-universalist translation of the Muslim version of the Golden Rule. Bukhari 1.2.10 reads:

The Prophet said, “A Muslim is the one who avoids harming Muslims with his tongue and hands…”

In Islam the principle of reciprocity is extended only between Muslims, which makes it a principle, not of reciprocity at all, but of bigotry and prejudice. Islam is the only religion of any significance that does not embrace a universal principle of reciprocity.

Islam rejects even the idea of cooperation. Koran, verse 9.28:

O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

i.e. Go broke rather than have dealings with infidels.

Not loving: the Koran’s endless instructions to subjugate and kill infidels

Verse 9.29:

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Another murderous verse (Koran 9.5) is the infamous “verse of the sword,” so central to traditional Islamic doctrine:

Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush.

Etcetera ad nauseum.

Well meaning left-wing multiculturalists convince themselves that these verses are no worse, and no more relevant, than God’s Old Testament instructions to the Jews to annihilate one people after another on their mission to conquer the promised land, but those were not universal instructions to conquer everybody. They are framed as specific permissions from God to attack a specific people at a specific place and time. In accordance with this specificity, these Bible verses have rarely if ever been used as a justification for aggressive conquest.

Not all Christians have always heeded the law of love in its properly universal Christian form, but that was no fault of the Bible, while to Christianity’s great credit its various churches have all long since dedicated themselves to understanding and following the law of love as well as flawed human beings are able, and Judaism has done the same.

Decades before Jesus declared that the commandments to love God and to Love your neighbor are all the law and the prophets, Rabbi Hillel had said the same about the golden rule:

“What is hateful to thee, do not unto thy fellow man: this is the whole Law; the rest is mere commentary.”

Orthodox Islam, in contrast, is aggressively carrying its law of hatred and violent aggression to every corner of the globe.

Our taqiyyist president

Obama quite obviously “don’t know much about history,” and “don’t know much about a science book,” but he does know the Koran. He studied it for years as a child and even took classes in “menjaji,” or Koran recitation in Arabic, which is the gold standard of fundamentalist Islamic education.

Hatred of the infidel is not hidden in Islam. It is the essence of it. No one can study Islam at all without comprehending this, and Obama surely does comprehend it. His claim that Islam embraces the law of love can only be a strategic lie, what in Islam is called taqiyya, and the fact that he seems to be engaging in taqiyya is pretty good evidence that Barack Hussein Obama actually is Muslim and is using the Oval Office to promote Islamic supremacism.

Obama’s claim that he is Christian, not Muslim, is not probative because Islam’s very first instruction to converts is that they should lie about their religion. Tabari 8.23 (one of the hadiths, or reported sayings of Muhammad):

en Nu’aym came to the Prophet. ‘I’ve become a Muslim, but my tribe does not know of my Islam; so command me whatever you will.’ Muhammad said, ‘Make them abandon each other if you can so that they will leave us; for war is deception.’

If Obama is Muslim, he would lie about it. Muslims who live amongst Christians are supposed to pretend that they are Christian, if by doing so they can advance the cause of Islamic conquest.

In one set of hadiths, Muhammad asks who will murder a man whose poetry Muhammad finds offensive. He then grants a volunteer (Muhammad bin Maslama) permission to lie to the victim in order to get close enough to do the deed, and the volunteer proceeds to pretend that he has turned against Muhammad (i.e. that he is no longer a Muslim). This is regarded by orthodox Islam as model behavior.

In sum, Obama is certainly lying about Islam, and hence is almost certainly an orthodox Muslim who embraces the Islamic law of hate. So what else is new? Honestly, we knew this before the 2008 election.

(As for the sheer destructiveness of the policies that Obama claims to be required by love, don’t be such a wuss: “You’ve gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet.”)

This entry was posted in Barack Obama, Islam, Politics, Religion. Bookmark the permalink. Tuesday, February 7th, 2012 at 12:00 pm
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143 Responses to You lie! Obama claims that Islam teaches the law of love [Reader Post]

  1. Smorgasbord says: 101

    @Randy: #97
    I should have put the “LOL” after my comment. I’m still not used to these acronyms. I had to look acronyms up because I wasn’t sure that was the right word, I am so unused to them. I am sorry for the confusion. I don’t know how to put a smiley face in text, but don’t try to explain it to me because I probably won’t use them.

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  2. Randy says: 102

    @Smorgasbord: You are forgiven!

    ReplyReply
  3. Smorgasbord says: 103

    @Randy: #102
    I forgot to mention that I take the comments very seriously, too. Sometimes I have to add a little humor in my comments or I get too worked up about what is happening in our country. I know this is going to be hard to understand, but I don’t sweat much, and sometimes, if I read or see something I really don’t like, I can get so frustrated about it that I overheat enough that I have to undo my shirt to cool off. The same thing happens if I get too happily excited. After I wrote the last sentence, I thought that the phrase, “Keeping my cool,” fits me perfectly.

    The good thing is, if I can, “Keep my cool,” I can wear the same clothes for a week or two at a time, and don’t have to do laundry very often. LOL

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  4. CALI
    yes , a perfect example to define them, nobody want to be a friend of those, they don’t need much to explode.
    bye

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  5. Nan G
    hi, congratulation, you hit the 100 and with a lot of competition too,
    everybody was scrambling to get it, It made me think of TE-BOW’S GAME,
    bye

    ReplyReply
  6. My friend at the farm, had her cow which had twins baby cow, she was not able to feed the two properly, so my friend would go bottle feed one who was rejected, in the mean time , another had a cow dead already,on after a while, her husband said; YOU KNOW
    you will have to feed her until she is done, so my friend thought, and thought and thought,,
    then the light came on, she took the after birth slush, and she rub the calf with it, and brought the cow to the other, and she accepted the calf and let her drink her milk,
    I was so impress with that story, enough to bring it here, a true story in a farm of 100 cows only.
    with farmers who love their animals

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  7. Wordsmith says: 107

    Alec,

    I don’t think your post makes it very clear that your cross-hairs are aimed solely at “orthodox” Islam. I agree with you that no, it’s not hateful to point out the hate in Islam, where hate exists. It’s not wrong to criticize it where criticism is warranted. But what I see in your post is a lopsided distortion, selective reading and interpretation, and broadbrushing that attacks Islam as a whole. It risks alienating those within the Islamic community who might otherwise find alliance with you; instead, they may feel lumped in together with the ones who truly are at war with the West.

    In my opinion, posts like yours only adds fuel to the fire of propagandistic misunderstandings; the flip-side of “the narrative” which pushes conspiratorial beliefs about America, American values, and our intentions toward Muslims.

    Do we wish to widen the war and create more enemies? Do we drive more Muslims into the camp of Zawahiri and al Qaeda, who failed to rally most of the Muslim world to answer the call to jihad against the West?

    Part of what bothers me is the ascribing unto all Muslims beliefs and interpretations of their religion that they themselves may not (willfully or ignorantly) adhere to. Saying “Muslims must believe this or that because it’s writ in the Koran”. Seriously?! I’ve never met a single Muslim- including those who believe themselves devout (not by al Qaeda’s definition, of course)- that has ever tried to “convert or kill” me. The only people who have ever proselytized their faith and tried to get me to go to Bible studies and their churches have been Mormons, Christians, and Jews for Jesus. I have Muslim friends who have no clue what “taqqiya” (a shia practice with caveats that are ignored and twisted to fit the anti-Islam agenda of the Spencerian critics) is – but hey! Maybe they are simply lying to this ignorant infidel of the west.

    I just don’t see it as helpful to our cause to lump all practitioners of Islam in with the salafists and the jihadis and to create this distorted picture that Muslims must kill infidels because the sword verses tell them so. Or to attack their faith with hatred that near rivals the hatred and bigotry of the Islamists who do pose a danger to civilization. Some of what’s ascribed to Islam is stuff that’s not really found anywhere in the Koran but are cultural practices that pre-dates Islam. By all means, criticize backward cultural practices that turn you off. But please don’t create a distorted picture (like majority Muslims preferring their women burqa’ed up) and exaggerate “the Threat” to the level of conspiracy, doing the al Qaeda network a favor of which they themselves have been unable to singlehandedly accomplish on their own.

    If you are not familiar, Osama bin Laden is a perfectly orthodox Wahabbist, and it was a bunch of Saudi Wahabbists who attacked us on 9/11.

    I agree that wahhabism/salafists pose a danger and a problem. But is orthodox Islam or “traditional” Islam or “classic” Islam = wahhabism? Wasn’t wahhabism a reform movement and don’t non-wahhabis criticize it as revisionist itself and not a return to the “original” faith? Muslims quibble amongst themselves the definition of “true” Islam and western imamic armchair scholars like Robert Spencer (some of whose research I do respect) seem to want to push the al Qaeda theology and salafi narrative about what Islam is.

    Anyone who cares about the decent people in the Islamic world needs to understand that these people are being suppressed and dominated by the Saudi funded rise of the orthodox murder-cultists. When you guys refuse to witness the evil nature of the orthodoxy that is suppressing decent Muslims, when you speak out against exposure of that evil ideology, YOU ARE NOT HELPING THE DECENT MUSLIMS. You are abandoning them. You are giving cover to the Islamofascist thugs who are well on the way to enslaving the entire Muslim world.

    And when those “DECENT MUSLIMS” happen to come across your blogpost, do you suppose they’ll understand that you are not attacking them and their faith but trying to help them agains the puritannical fundamentalists ? Or do you think it might make some pause and think that maybe some of those ranting anti-American imams may have a point after all regarding the persecution of Muslims by western civiliation? After all, look here at Alec Rawl’s post….

    Zuhdi Jasser might not confuse who you are criticizing and join in there with you, as a devout Muslim who embraces reform, modernity, western freedoms, and separation of mosque and state. But what about the 90% of the 1.5 billion who might not be at war with the West but who see your views as a danger to themselves?

    We might not like fundamentalists in Islam; but not all hardcore Islamists are part of the violent global jihad movement. We should be able to criticize their cultural (and religious) practices if we disagree with them; but without pushing them into the camp of violent jihadism.

    And then there are those Muslims who do embrace modernity, are moderate in their religious views, and who don’t see a conflict between sharia and democracy. Let them work it out and come to terms with whether or not sharia and democracy are compatible or not. Citing the mantra that sharia (as if there is only one sharia- the Taliban-style of course, according to the anti-Islam scaremongerers) is antithetical to Islam doesn’t really help those Muslims who disagree. It doesn’t help those Muslims who believe that Islam is a religion of peace to attack them with, “No, no, no….let me selectively cite Koranic passages to you…Islam is a religion of hate.” Does that conversation need to take place? Sure. There is much in the Koran that Muslims need to confront and come to terms with if they are to coexist with the rest of the world in the 21st century. But how they choose to practice their faith and what they believe in is for them to decide. Not for outsiders to tell them what they believe and can’t possibly believe because we, as experts of translated Korans and politically-incorrect guides to their religion, know better than they do about their own faith. What chutzpah! Let them – both puritannicals and moderates- define themselves and what they believe.

    Sorry, but your ignorant pretense to some superior concern for decent Muslims is … well, I’ll forgo colorful language. Let’s just say that, at least in Wordsmith’s case, it is beneath him.

    Okay, Cary seems well-meaning too, maybe even Tom. But really guys… it’s hateful to document the hatefulness of orthodox Islamic doctrine? Is this Daily Kos?

    If orthodox Islam, as you call it, is your target of criticism, then it would be helpful to make this clear in your post.

    There’s a world of Islamic ideological and religious difference between Muhammad Ali and Ayman Zawahiri.

    @Randy #58: I love reading your stories!

    When I was an in-store detective and lead cashier at one time for a retail store, we used to always complain about our Persian and Arab customers who would always be haggling over prices as if bargaining was normative here, and would lie right to our faces and when called out on it, would openly admit to lying and then would do it again! My sense wasn’t that this was a Koranic edict but a cultural norm.

    @Alec Rawls #61:

    Wordsmith and Blast think that Bush calling Islam a religion of peace is the same as Obama doing it, but the difference is obvious. Unlike Obama, Bush is ignorant of Islam, so he wasn’t lying. He couldn’t lie. He didn’t know the truth. Ah, but HOW did he come to be misled? By the lies of people like Obama who do know the truth, and cover it up.

    The fact that Bush was misled by these liars shows how strategically effective the lies are. The president of the United States, the leader of the fight against “those who attacked us on 9/11″ (the subject of our declaration of war immediately after 9/11), never identified the true attacker: orthodox Islam.

    I wouldn’t say that it was even orthodox/fundamentalist Islam that attacked us but a type of it: al Qaeda theology which is based as much upon the writings of Sayyid Qutb and Ibn Taymiyyah as anything you will ever find in the Koran. In fact, for al Qaeda to justify their level of violence including suicide (forbidden in Islam) attacks and the ability to proclaim other Muslims as apostates, they had to cite from the writings of these men in the absence of Koranic endorsement and as an aegis from Koranic condemnation.

    Yeah, sure…Bush was and is ignorant of Islam. That’s right….

    …or maybe he didn’t wish to give bin Laden and Zawahiri their wish of plunging us into a “clash of civilizations” and widening the war to encompass more than just a minority of Muslims into embracing jihadism. President Bush makes the distinction between radicals, militants, extremists, and political Islam vs. moderates and peaceful fundamentalists.

    Who are we at war with? The al Qaeda network and the Taliban. Not the whole of Islam. 1.5 billion Muslims aren’t out to convert or kill you.

    @ilovebeeswarzone #63:

    beside we need to know the timing of that answer from PRESIDENT BUSH, anyone know, if it was before or after the 9/11, or when in another time.

    bees, you can find Bush doing this immediately in the aftermath of 9/11 (to quell any anti-Muslim/Arab bigotry) and throughout his presidency. He knew who the enemy is, and the enemy that attacked us is the same one that has killed more Muslims than Bush could ever be held accountable for.

    and yet there was MUSLIMS DANCING REJOICING FOR THE EVENT OF 9/11,
    plus the last outrage of building that MOSQUE around the SITE, which is not forgotten and will never be.

    bees, let’s not exaggerate the conjectures. Need I remind you of this post?

    @Smorgasbord #72:

    NOT WEARING THE FLAG PIN
    He quit wearing the pin (if he ever wore one) right after 9-11.

    Thanks for the link and explanation, Smorgasbord. I agree with the President: Wearing a pin or waving a flag around doesn’t make one patriotic.

    But I also am irked by this and understand the conservative perspective. Rituals and symbols like this and honoring the flag are important to me. But I understand Obama’s reasoning, even if I disagree with it.

    SAYING THE MUSLIM RELIGION TEACHES LOVE
    What others say about it is separate from what I or someone else says. I don’t go by what others have said. Only what Obama has said. He grew up a Muslim and knows it teaches that, as a Muslim, you must convert or kill non-Muslims, and if you leave the religion, you will be killed.

    Do you know for a fact that at age 6, he was being taught to convert or kill infidels? Or is this Islamophobic projectionism at its finest? Lol. Didn’t he receive both Islamic and Catholic teachings for a 5 yr period? And not in any intensive, Taliban-style- “orthodox” to use Alec’s word- manner? I also don’t think he received any indoctrination into wahhabi-brand Islam since wahhabism’s influence was minimal in Indonesia during the time he was probably there.

    I have not read the Koran, but I have read a lot of info from others who have. I want to buy one so I can compare.

    You do recall, too, that believers will also claim that you cannot truly know the Koran through translations, because in the Arabic it is the actual word of God. Any translation would be inaccurate. In the non-mystical sense, this of course is also true- problems arise whenever translating. How well can you capture cultural nuances inherent in words and find accuracy and understanding of historical context?

    Is there any reference to loving anyone who is not a Muslim in the Koran?

    For an answer to that, I’d like to recommend to you a simple book to balance out all the anti-Islam readings. Some of her arguments are hamstrung by politically-correct beliefs and arguments, but it’s a good book.

    REFUSING TO CALL THE FOR HOOD MASSACRE A TERRORIST ACT
    This by itself is no proof of pro Muslim,

    Exactly.

    What President Obama’s position is, is liberal. His position is no different than the deep-seated beliefs held by your mainstream Democrat.

    HIM PRAYING FIVE TIMES A DAY
    Mostly joking, but it would be interesting to see him at the times the Muslims are supposed to pray.

    *facepalm slap*

    JUST PIECES OF A PUZZLE
    All of the above are pieces of a puzzle. The more pieces that are found, the more it makes me wonder if he is a Muslim. I’m not 100% convinced he is, but if I had to guess, I would have to guess that he PROBABLY is. Lets invite him to a hog roast and see if he comes.

    Ok, Muslims do not react to pig meat the way vampires react to garlic or crosses…..

    My impressions of President Obama is that he is just not that into religion in general. He identifies himself as a Christian but is not defined by it.

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  8. WORDSMITH
    hi,
    the confusing part of it, is that we have to take a stand, for AMERICANS or against, in this affluence of foreign intervention, the peaceful MUSLIMS have taken sides, they are here but still with their ideo politi
    cise world, if they would take AMERICA FULLY HEART AND SOUL, THEY WOULD BE THE ONE TO ERADICATE THEIR DANGEROUS EXTREMIST NOT LEAVE IT TO AMERICANS ROOTED DEEP IN THE GROUND TO GO AND BE BLOWN UP BY WHO THEY CALL BROTHERS,
    YOU HAVE TO COME TO THE FACT, THAT THEY ARE HERE FOR THEIR OWN SELF INTENT, TO USE AMERICA, NOT TO JOIN IT,, WE DID NOT HAVE WITNESS YET THE OTHER SIDE, THE UNEQUIVICAL STAND FOR AMERICA, THERE WAS ONE WHO HAD THE CALL AND TURN OUT TO KILL HIS COMPANIONS BRAVES FOR WHAT HE BELIEVED, HE ALSO WAS TRYING TO USE HIS DEGREE IN PSYCHIATRY TO CONFUSE THE SICK VETERANS BY TEACHING THEM HIS IDEOLOGY, WHAT I found the most SECOND horrible thing to happen to our braves returning from the war against them haters .
    I remember very clearly that VETERAN COME IN FA, saying he could not understand what they foreigner working there where telling them, imagine how they must have been more confuse than they already are, under supervision of a hater with his degree working to worsen their condition, not far from his killing akbar spree, it was my beginning at FA, ANSWERING IN MY POOR ENGLISH THAT MAN ASKING FOR HELP, AND LEARNED AFTER OF THE KILLING OF MANY BRAVES
    SHOULD I discard this, no I cannot, I took my stand I had already my views of those eids killing or breaking the bodies of the braves before I arrived at FA, which I fell in love with.
    that is not islamophobia, they have their own phobias learned from generations to generations never evolved., the stand is for them to take, not for the true AMERICANS INCLUDING THE ONES WHO DIED, THE ONES WHO HURT, THE ONES WHO ARE DISABLED,
    THE BALL IS ON THE MUSLIMS TO LEAVE THEIR CHAINS BEHIND AND JOIN THE PEOPLE,
    STOP PARADING ARROGANTLY WITH THEIR ROBE AND SCARFS WICH REMIND AMERICA OF WHO THEY ARE WHICH IS NOT AMERICANS

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  9. WORDSMITH
    I just notice the full moon, that’s when things happen, things are said they come from the soul,
    just like you did too.
    bye

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  10. Smorgasbord says: 110

    @Wordsmith: #107
    WAS HE TAUGHT TO CONVERT OR KILL AT AGE 6?
    When you asked me that question, it reminded me of this story. We don’t know where Obama was at any certain time.

    http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=188801

    Nobody at Columbia University remembers him, not even the ones in the political science, pre-law class he says he was in.

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2365625/posts

    THE MUSLIM NEXT DOOR
    It is on my “Get” list. What, no coupon?

    What President Obama’s position is, is liberal. His position is no different than the deep-seated beliefs held by your mainstream Democrat.

    I disagree with you here. Even the most liberal democrat would PROBABLY realize the USA can’t afford any more bailout type spending, but Obama keeps coming up with more programs he wants that will cost billions of dollars for each. A lot of democrats are starting to go against some of his programs he wants to keep pushing. I think common sense is starting to sink into some democrats.

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  11. Smorgasbord says: 111

    @ilovebeeswarzone: #108
    As I have mentioned before, some religions have split in two. Enough people didn’t like the way things were and wanted change. They broke apart from the others and formed a different belief, but they were still the same basic religion.

    The Muslims who don’t like parts of the Koran should form a separate branch, and they can use the parts of the Koran they agree with, otherwise, it is the same convert of kill philosophy being taught. It is the same with any religion. Even the Christian religion teaches that if one thing is found false in the Bible, then all of it is false.

    Remember how no Iman condemned 9-11? I would like to know what they taught their followers right after that. There wasn’t even any act of compassion for the victim’s families that I heard of. There could have been, but I never heard of any until long after 9-11.

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  12. Smorgasbord
    quite a story, I bet he was never there at COLUMBIA, UNLESS MONEY FROM SOETHORO lots of it, paid,
    the students to deny his attending there, but then where was he if not there, I read also that he had visit PAKISTAN at one time, you must know that too. money got him anywhere, I wonder if he had to prostitute himself to have those free trips and more of, where was his mother at that time, or did she sold him to SOETORO, OR JUST LEFT HIM THERE WITH HIM,
    bye

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  13. Smorgasbord says: 113

    @ilovebeeswarzone: #112
    I don’t remember a trip to Pakistan, but my memory was never very good on remembering names and dates.

    The story goes that he had a rich aunt that paid his way. He never had a regular job after his teen years. She could have bought his way into Harvard, even though his grades were far below their standard.

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  14. Smorgasbord
    hi
    someone bought his way to the WHITE HOUSE TOO, AND THEY PROFITS IMMENSELY, WHERE DID ALL THE MONEY WENT?, THE DEBT CEILING MONEY I MEAN,
    It could be HIDDEN somewhere in the WORLD, I have also read that SOETHORO HAD BROKEN THE BANK IN ENGLAND WITH A deceptive game if it’s true, he did the same for AMERICA and still have time to do a lot more, unless CONGRESS STOP HIM
    bye

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  15. Smorgasbord says: 115

    @ilovebeeswarzone: #114

    someone bought his way to the WHITE HOUSE….

    It is a known fact that during the campaigning for 2008 Obama opened up his donation web page so ANYBODY could give ANY amount.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/08/obamas_donor_contributions_sil.html

    There is a limit of how much can be given and no person from another country can legally give to an American campaign.

    The democrats had control of congress and knew that if they won the presidency, there wouldn’t be an investigation, and there wasn’t.

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  16. Smorgasbord
    yes, I read that too, some came from the ARABS, NO WONDER HE BOWS TO THEM AFTER HE WON.
    BYE

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  17. Wordsmith says: 117

    @Smorgasbord:

    What President Obama’s position is, is liberal. His position is no different than the deep-seated beliefs held by your mainstream Democrat.

    I disagree with you here.

    If you look at the President’s administration, most of it is not filled with radicals but with Clintonistas. The entire party itself has moved the center further to the left. It’s not just Obama, but the Pelosis and Reids in the party. Here’s an interesting read (beginning with the link to Medved’s article).

    My point originally was about addressing this:

    REFUSING TO CALL THE FOR HOOD MASSACRE A TERRORIST ACT
    This by itself is no proof of pro Muslim,

    And the point of my response of “Exactly” was to say, “Yeah, and….so? So what?”

    This isn’t proof of his “Muslimness”. It’s Proof that he is a liberal, multiculturalist-loving, politically-correct and sensitive Democrat not wishing to hurt feelings and put off and offend the easily offended….just like many other fellow liberals. He is not the only one who doesn’t wish to look at the incident as a terrorist act or call it as such. Even President Bush (and those advising him in the GWoT) was very careful to make a distinction between radical extremists in Islam and Islam itself. Didn’t the term “workplace violence” come out of the Department of Defense? Are you so sure that even under a Bush administration, that term would not have come into vogue to describe Ft. Hood?

    @Smorgasbord #111:

    Remember how no Iman condemned 9-11? I would like to know what they taught their followers right after that. There wasn’t even any act of compassion for the victim’s families that I heard of. There could have been, but I never heard of any until long after 9-11.

    Ya know….I don’t expect you to click on every link. But I’m surprised that bees did not bother to bring to your attention that I addressed this directly to her above when she made the mention earlier. Here is my link.

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  18. Wordsmith
    thank’s for the link, wow what a POST, interesting views, I had forgotten about it,
    I wonder how MIKE AMERICA is, he had good POST to get all to join in,
    and that’s where GINGRISH VIDEO the two of them where shown, very impress by his stand too,
    you had some hard work there, you did the best you could, and you are a good debater to, and all the big guns where there too, it was good to revisit
    from each side to see again.
    bye

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  19. Smorgasbord says: 119

    @Wordsmith: #117
    I don’t remember reading your article you linked to. I must have missed it for some reason. I ALWAYS try to read yours.

    I can’t watch the video of Obama bowing to the king of Saudi Arabia and wonder why he would do that if he isn’t a Muslim. He never bowed to any other leader until he got flack for it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WlqW6UCeaY

    If you do a search for a video of it, you will find most of them have been removed. Why? Below is one of them. It does have a picture of Obama DEFINITELY bowing to the king. I can’t imagine any open-minded person seeing it and saying he didn’t bow.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/04/obama_bows_down_to_saudi_king.html

    Let’s not try to change the other person’s opinion on things we disagree on. Let’s concentrate on the things we do agree on. Number one is getting Obama out of office.

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  20. Wordsmith says: 120

    @Smorgasbord:

    @Wordsmith: #117
    I don’t remember reading your article you linked to. I must have missed it for some reason. I ALWAYS try to read yours.

    Really? Thank you. It’s especially a compliment, given how much I must irk those further to the right than I.

    I can’t watch the video of Obama bowing to the king of Saudi Arabia and wonder why he would do that if he isn’t a Muslim. He never bowed to any other leader until he got flack for it.

    You mean he only started bowing after he got flack? *confused* Could you please clarify what you mean?

    Don’t you suppose there might be more logical reasons for the bow than the notion that it must be because President Obama must be a Muslim? Is it even customary for Muslims to greet each other with a bow? Or even Saudi royalty? I don’t think so. So why would President Obama’s bow, whatever you may think of it, quantify him as being Muslim?

    Etiquette:

    There are several styles of greetings used; it is best to wait for your counterpart to initiate the greeting. Men shake hands with other men. Some men will shake hands with a woman; it is advisable for a businesswoman to wait for a man to offer his hand. A more traditional greeting between men involves grasping each other’s right hand, placing the left hand on the other’s right shoulder and exchanging kisses on each cheek.

    So when President Bush exchanged kisses and holds hands with the Saudi king…what does this make him?

    (Incidentally, can anyone confirm for me that the kiss on the lips is a photoshop of the actual kiss on the cheeks?)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WlqW6UCeaY

    If you do a search for a video of it, you will find most of them have been removed. Why?

    Possibly because the YouTube account has since been removed for any number of reasons, such as copyright infringement. Pretty common. I don’t see any conspiracy here. You can find enough video footage on the web (YouTube specifically) of President Obama’s infamous bow to the Saudi king.

    Let’s not try to change the other person’s opinion on things we disagree on. Let’s concentrate on the things we do agree on. Number one is getting Obama out of office.

    Agreed! :)

    But keep in mind that debate and disagreements can be healthy, worthwhile endeavors.

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  21. Smorgasbord says: 121

    @Wordsmith: 120
    The first person there is information of Obama bowing to is to the King of Saudi Arabia. The conservative media made a big deal out of it, and I think they should have. They said it is the first time a US president bowed to ANYBODY.

    You mean he only started bowing after he got flack? *confused* Could you please clarify what you mean?

    After the incident, he started bowing to different people in authority. One was Governor Christie:
    http://reddogreport.com/2010/07/obama-bows-before-the-awesomeness-that-is-governor-chris-christie/

    Another was the mayor of Tampa:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWHzM-wo5aU

    These were all done AFTER he bowed to the king of Saudi Arabia and the word go out.

    So why would President Obama’s bow, whatever you may think of it, quantify him as being Muslim

    As I have mentioned before, one item doesn’t prove anything. I am trying to put together Obama’s jigsaw puzzle of who he is. He won’t release any info about himself, he keeps referring to the Muslim religion in a positive way, even after Muslims kill people, etc. Too many of the pieces fit in the Muslim religion. Whether he is a Muslim or not, he wants to destroy the freedoms of America, and if he isn’t a Muslim, then he is using them to help accomplish the destruction of a free America.

    Don’t you suppose there might be more logical reasons for the bow than the notion that it must be because President Obama must be a Muslim?

    You’re using a Time magazine article in your defense? Why not just ask Keith Olbermann what his opinion of it is?

    So when President Bush exchanged kisses and holds hands with the Saudi king…what does this make him?

    Could Bush be secretly gay? I’m guessing that in videos of the kisses that the king kissed first, and Bush felt he had to return the gesture. This is a common greeting for Arabs. A kiss on the cheek is far different than a bow. A bow to me means the one bowing accepts the higher authority of the one bowed to. It is similar to the military where a lower rank salutes ANY higher ranking officer. Maybe we have a difference of opinion of what bowing to someone means. To me it means the one bowing knows they are lower ranking than the one being bowed to.

    But keep in mind that debate and disagreements can be healthy, worthwhile endeavors.

    Only if I win them! (LOL) I don’t consider our disagreement competition, but it did remind me that when I do compete with others in different things, I usually tell them that I’m not sure if I hate to loose, or love to win.

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  22. Maybe Obama bowed to the Saudi King because he was doing his Wayne’s World impression and secretly thinking, “Now here’s a guy who KNOWS how to govern rule! I’m not worthy!”

    :-P

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  23. Wordsmith says: 123

    @Smorgasbord:

    These were all done AFTER he bowed to the king of Saudi Arabia and the word go out.

    Haha…maybe it’s intentional ’cause he knows he is getting under the skin of conservatives who made a big deal over this; or, maybe it’s a spontaneous bow that doesn’t mean much at all and is a personal quirk. How do you really know that he hasn’t made a bow gesture to others prior to the Saudi King? I know people who do stuff like this and shouldn’t be taken seriously.

    I understand the criticism and irritation of his bowing to the Saudi king; but not as “one piece” in a jigsaw puzzle of his Muslimness.

    he keeps referring to the Muslim religion in a positive way, even after Muslims kill people, etc. Too many of the pieces fit in the Muslim religion. Whether he is a Muslim or not, he wants to destroy the freedoms of America, and if he isn’t a Muslim, then he is using them to help accomplish the destruction of a free America.

    Sounds like evidence of a typical liberal progressive Democrat to me :D

    Do you not understand that his comments “after Muslims kill people” as you put it, isn’t significantly different than that of President Bush? “after Muslims kill people”?! Can you get any more generalizing than that? President Obama is “pro-Muslim” for ordering predator drone attacks that kill Muslims including greenlighting the order to snuff out Osama bin Laden? I really don’t understand the logic that wants to dictate making President Obama out to be a Muslim. Again, I see this as ranking right on up there with the birthers.

    You’re using a Time magazine article in your defense? Why not just ask Keith Olbermann what his opinion of it is?

    Should I have gone with the NYTimes or Newsweek instead? Sheesh! Why not comment on the merits of the article? It’s just one piece and saved me the time of a response in my own voice. You really think the article has the same tone and tenor as a Keith Olbermann?! or is it simply easier to be dismissive of anything that doesn’t come out of Human Events, World Net Daily, FOX News, or Rush?

    Could Bush be secretly gay? I’m guessing that in videos of the kisses that the king kissed first, and Bush felt he had to return the gesture. This is a common greeting for Arabs. A kiss on the cheek is far different than a bow. A bow to me means the one bowing accepts the higher authority of the one bowed to. It is similar to the military where a lower rank salutes ANY higher ranking officer.

    Yeah, but how would this be further proof of President Obama’s Muslimhood? I don’t think bowing to others is an Islamic practice/custom.

    Maybe we have a difference of opinion of what bowing to someone means. To me it means the one bowing knows they are lower ranking than the one being bowed to.

    Depends on culture and context. Bowing can be a show of respect in martial arts circles. Nothing shameful or subservient.

    Only if I win them! (LOL) I don’t consider our disagreement competition, but it did remind me that when I do compete with others in different things, I usually tell them that I’m not sure if I hate to loose, or love to win.

    Lol…

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  24. Smorgasbord
    about the pig in the dirt, you wont believe what is my news paper today, I decide it was for you to get it;
    THERE is in the BAHAMAS some islands with crystal clear waters so clear that the pigs
    can swim in it that is the advertizing sentence,; and one is name EXUMA, there is pigs swimming in it and a tour boat with tourist stop by them and the tourist give the pigs bread and melon they always come surrounding the boat which is a day out attraction and boat tour around the islands, then after
    the pigs have eaten they swim ashore and feed their pigglets waiting on land by the shores,
    the legend say they come from a shipwreck and swam ashore, but kept the pleasure of swimming in those waters,

    and I really shrank the page for this comment
    bye

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  25. Smorgasbord says: 125

    @Wordsmith: #123
    Let’s leave it this way: I have my opinion and you have yours. I’m not going to try to convert you to my way of thinking and you won’t convince me to change mine. It’s just like the ones who are trying to convert me to the Christian religion. I will still put my moral values up against ANY religious person. The more they try to convert me, the less I want to do with them. Let’s stay friends and agree to disagree.

    I am open-minded enough that THINGS can change my mind. Other people’s opinions on a subject SOMETIMES do, but not very often.

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  26. Smorgasbord says: 126

    @ilovebeeswarzone: #124
    Most people don’t know that a pig is very intelligent and easily trained. They also are a very clean animal. The only reason they wallow in mud is to stay cool. Pigs don’t sweat and use the moist mud to stay cool. If they are in a cool place, they will stay clean on their own.

    ReplyReply
  27. Smorgasbord
    hi,I take it that you like that story, I couldn’t wait to come and tell it
    I wish I could send the picture too,
    bye

    ReplyReply
  28. Smorgasbord says: 128

    @ilovebeeswarzone: @127
    I grew up in Iowa. It is hog country. I have seen millions of hogs.

    ReplyReply
  29. Smorgasbord
    that make you an expert on what they are under their skin, what they are about.
    bye

    ReplyReply
  30. Smorgasbord says: 130

    @ilovebeeswarzone: #129
    I am guessing you are referring to me not sweating much, or did you mean that I was around them a lot. I wasn’t. I’ve just seen a lot of hog lots.

    ReplyReply
  31. Smorgasbord
    that’s funny, I don’t know ENGLISH enough to refer of someting else than what I ask, that was a straight question, I should of ad if you observed them enough to know them more than pork roast or ribs, or pork chops or pigs feet or or or
    bye

    ReplyReply
  32. ALEC RAWLS
    are we faithful to the POST?
    WHAT WAS IT AGAIN?
    BYE

    ReplyReply
  33. Smorgasbord says: 133

    @ilovebeeswarzone: #131
    If an Iowan is really happy, they might say, “I’m in hog heaven!”

    ReplyReply
  34. Alec Rawls says: 134

    Sorry I haven’t been able to stay with this thread. I had to spend the end of last week preparing my “expert review” of AR5 (the next IPCC global warming scare report), which was due Friday, then I spent the weekend at a reunion.

    When I can get around to it, I’ll post a continuation. With the murder-cult character of orthodox Islam having been documented, I suggest a possible way to compel reform. Hold Islam to the 10 Commandments. Try to create a “Ten Commandments Islam” reform movement both within Islam and as a demand from the original Abrahamic religions. If Islam wants to claim this title as well, I has to stop violating the Sixth Commandment, and if the orthodoxy tries to deny that Muslims have to obey this law, then it is going to lose ordinary Muslims, because the Koran is very clear that Muslims DO have to obey the Ten Commandments.

    If the orthodoxy tries to murder people for saying it, the untenability of their own interpretations is dramatically exposed. They can murder people for all kinds of things just by the power that murder gives them over subject populations, but murdering people for embracing the 10 Commandments is a bridge too far even for the most ensconced totalitarians. Not when their whole religion is based on claiming the God of Moses.

    ReplyReply
  35. Randy says: 135

    @Alec Rawls: Where are you posting your comments on the latest IPCC Scare? Please let me know.

    ReplyReply
  36. Alec Rawls says: 136

    Randy: I’ll probably be posting at WUWT (meterologist Anthony Watts’ climate skeptic clearing house). Reviewers signed a non-disclosure agreement so I can’t actually quote what is in the draft report, but they only ASKED us not to discusses it. Given what I found, I do not feel inclined to honor that request, and it doesn’t put much of a crimp not to be able to use specific references because my comment is about that they left out. Anthony, on the other hand, may want to honor the request not to discuss (he is also an expert reviewer), so his site might be off-limits. Wherever I post, I’ll look to put up at least an excerpt at FA.

    ReplyReply
  37. Randy says: 137

    @Alec Rawls: I read it often. Can’t wait.

    ReplyReply
  38. Nan G says: 138

    @Wordsmith: @Randy #58: I love reading your stories!

    When I was an in-store detective and lead cashier at one time for a retail store, we used to always complain about our Persian and Arab customers who would always be haggling over prices as if bargaining was normative here, and would lie right to our faces and when called out on it, would openly admit to lying and then would do it again! My sense wasn’t that this was a Koranic edict but a cultural norm.

    Word,
    Your comment reminded me of a long time ago when I was working as a Christmas temp in a now-gone department store (Bullocks).
    A store detective (male) asked me if I could very quietly go into the women’s dressing room area and look through the slats to see where a niqab’ed* woman was.
    Well, she was the only customer in there, so, Yes.
    Then he asked me to watch her to see if she was stealing clothing.
    Oh, yeah.
    She layered two new bras and four nice undies.
    Then she replaced her old top with a new one, actually placing the price tag on her old top and hanging it on the hanger.
    Finally she changed out her totebag/purse for a really nice black designer purse and came out and hung her old top on a rack.
    So, I reported all of this to the store detective.
    When he stopped her outside the store she screamed “RAPE!”
    Later she accused him of planting everything on her.
    He had not been alone with her at any point.
    Finally she paid for everything in full, no problem.
    Sort of a sport, it seemed.

    *Niqab: a full face mask leaving both eyes exposed.
    Usually (and in the case I am recalling) with a full light cloth cloak that fully covers all regular clothing underneath.

    ReplyReply
  39. Randy says: 139

    @Nan G: It is all allowed since we are infidels!

    ReplyReply
  40. Richard Wheeler says: 140

    SMORG VS WORD Talk about a mismatch.

    ReplyReply
  41. Smorgasbord says: 141

    @Alec Rawls: #134
    One thing I suggested is that the Muslims that don’t want to follow the Koran to the letter should branch off and form a SEPARATE part of Islam. Different religions have done this.

    One of my biggest gripes is that it is well known that the Muslim religion teaches it is OK to kill people for certain things:
    (1) If you don’t convert to Islam.
    (2) If you are a husband or father and your wife or kids embarrass you, you can kill them.
    (3) You leave the Muslim religion.
    (4) You break certain Islamic laws.

    Yet, they still qualify for a Federal tax break, so we are helping finance there spreading their ideals. I am speaking of the original Muslim ideals when I say this: I believe that the Muslim religion is a terrorist organization, and we are helping them in there plan to destroy the infidel USA. I am talking about the ones who want to follow the Koran to the letter, not the ones who want to steer away from the “convert or kill” ideal of Islam, so please don’t condemn me for having this opinion. I’m not talking about the ones who want to transform their religion into a peaceful religion. I wish them luck.

    ReplyReply
  42. Smorgasbord says: 142

    @Randy: #139
    Let’s not ASS/U/ME she is a Muslim. Many thieves do wear a DISGUISE.

    ReplyReply
  43. Smorgasbord says: 143

    @Richard Wheeler: #140
    I’m a little confused by you saying, “SMORG VS WORD.” We disagree on things, but we don’t argue about it. Why is it you liberals always seem to want to argue if someone disagrees with you. I can talk about anything, as long as the other person doesn’t try to convert me to their way of thinking if I don’t want to change the way I think about it.

    Of all of the Tea Party events I have been to, I have never been able to talk to a liberal without them getting really mad and using the worst language, and THEY are usually the ones who start the conversation. I always answered in a calm, quiet voice, even when they started getting louder.

    Why do liberals always seem to have that for or against mentality. Do you always agree with everybody on everything? No. Do you always look at it as a for or against challenge where one has to win and one has to loose? I hope not, but I have known people that way. They don’t seem to be happy unless they can argue with someone. I hope you aren’t in that group.

    Thank you for giving me top billing, as if I am the one to beat.

    ReplyReply

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