WASHINGTON (AP) — U.S. citizens are legitimate military targets when they take up arms with al-Qaida, top national security lawyers in the Obama administration said Thursday.
The lawyers were asked at a national security conference about the CIA killing of Anwar al-Awlaki, a U.S. citizen and leading al-Qaida figure. He died in a Sept. 30 U.S. drone strike in the mountains of Yemen.
The government lawyers, CIA counsel Stephen Preston and Pentagon counsel Jeh Johnson, did not directly address the al-Awlaki case. But they said U.S. citizens don’t have immunity when they’re at war with the United States.
And he don’ need no stinkin’ judges, but here’s where it gets interesting:
Johnson said only the executive branch, not the courts, is equipped to make military battlefield targeting decisions about who qualifies as an enemy.
So Obama doesn’t need judicial oversight to have an American killed on a “military battlefield.” And there’s the rub. A new law is winding its way through Congress that redefines what a “battlefield” is:
There are several very revealing aspects to all of this. First, the 9/11 attack happened more than a decade ago; Osama bin Laden is dead; the U.S. Government claims it has killed virtually all of Al Qaeda’s leadership and the group is “operationally ineffective” in the Afghan-Pakistan region; and many commentators insisted that these developments would mean that the War on Terror would finally begin to recede. And yet here we have the Congress, on a fully bipartisan basis, acting not only to re-affirm the war but to expand it even further: by formally declaring that the entire world (including the U.S.) is a battlefield and the war will essentially go on forever.
The confluence of these two would permit an American President to order the termination of ay American he deemed to be necessary. He would not have to consult with Congress nor seek judicial oversight nor even make such an event public.
No one has to know. It’s a little scary.
George Bush always consulted with Congress whether it was invading Iraq or EHIT’s. Barack Obama asks no one’s permission for anything, which is ironic considering how mealy-mouthed Obama was about the Patriot Act before he was elected. Obama takes great advantage of the Patriot Act but had the audacity to refuse to sign it personally.
This is not confidence-inspiring.
DrJohn has been a health care professional for more than 30 years. In addition to clinical practice he has done extensive research and has published widely with over 70 original articles and abstracts in the peer-reviewed literature. DrJohn is well known in his field and has lectured on every continent except for Antarctica. He has been married to the same wonderful lady for over 30 years and has three kids- two sons, both of whom are attorneys and one daughter on her way into the field of education.
DrJohn was brought up with the concept that one can do well if one is prepared to work hard but nothing in life is guaranteed.
Except for liberals being foolish.
So what? — Cain’s latest girlie info, unemployment dropping to 8.6% and Nautie Newtie and Romneycare toss up? — What? – Me Worry? — oh – and who’s the favored teams for this weekend?
Wonder how liberals will feel when the next president applies this to Bill Ayers. After all, he is a terrorist who has murdered US citizens, is unrepentant, and only regrets he did not kill more Americans.
Bill Ayers? Lol! Nice little Fox lemming! And he killed no one.
If Obama had any balls, ten minutes after his inauguration Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld would have been on a plane to Gitmo with black burlap sacks over their heads, having been declared enemy combatants . . . imagine their shock when they were told they no longer could avail themselves of the Great Writ and had no access to legal representation.
@liberalmann: Thanks BOHICA man. This will be a disaster for our men and women in uniform. However, since the CIA is now the US weapon of choice, no problem. Can’t wait until the Global-Global War on Terror is truly localized and the promised drones are unleashing Hell Fire missiles at the schmuck who is convinced to buy the next Fast and Furious DOJ misadventure’s weapons.
Since Wordsmith was bugging me to format my comment on his CIA thread about this bill into a post, and you’ve done one here, drj, I’ll just repost the point/counterpoint here and let it go.
BTW, the Senate passed one of their versions of the same bill Dec 1st, 93 to 7. Three Dems (Harkin and OR’s two Wyden and Merkeley), three GOP (Rand Paul, Lee and Coburn) and one Indy (Socialist Bernie Sanders, of course) opposed.
On the heels of this story of infiltration, that it seems timely to point out the chicken little hyperbole now being spread by the anti-war (like InfoWars, in tandem with the ACLU on the National Defense Authorization Act. (Mata Musing, judging by drj’s linked story, you can add leftist Salon to that as well…)
The Senate and House versions of these bills are primarily to provide funding tables for military construction, defense and national security authorizations. But what the anti-war and leftists are objecting to are what they call increased war powers to the CiC.
The House bill, HR 1540, was introduced in April, and passed the House May 26th with overwhelming bipartisan support (322 Ayes, 96 Nays, 13 Present/Not Voting). No surprise that GOP primary candidate,Ron Paul, was one of the minority in opposition, saying that:
Now the same bunch is hot on the trail to cast the presentation of the updated Senate version, introduced in Nov, in the same light, as exhibited by the Sky Valley Chronicle’s (Monroe, WA) screaming headline, “AN EGYPTIAN MILITARY MODEL IN THE U.S.?” The passed House bill teamed up with both a GOP and Dem sponsor… a rare moment of Congressional compromise and cooperation (as the House vote proves). The original Senate version, S. 981, was also a bipartisan construction but the one that ultimately passed as a Carl Levin sponsored version with no co-sponsors.
And what are their knickers all in a twist about? For Paul and the ACLU, it was Section 530 and 1034, amending the AUMF (which Ron Paul wants repealed… pfttt).
In other words, they are correcting a beef I have had since the onset… that of describing the enemy that is the global Islamic jihad networks as only AQ. They now are including all who engage in hostilities against the US that share the AQ ideology.
This, of course, has the same bunch who were upset about the killing of pseudo American al Awlaki, in an uproar, saying “Congress will give President Obama and every future president the power to order the military to pick up and imprison – without charge or trial – American civilians anywhere in the world.”
I guess the bill was large enough with other matters that they didn’t want to read Subtitle D–Military Justice and Legal Matters, which lays out the specifics of judicial review. So it seems the hyperbole is somewhat overblown, and merely codifies what the US has been doing from the start… detaining suspected terrorists and their associated links… but still allows for military tribunals and judicial review.
This becomes important because if the US finds the Lebanese mole in the CIA, I’m frankly not interested in hearing a bunch of hoo hah about the violation of his rights. First order of business is to get the suspects out of the information loop to prevent further intel leaks that endanger our troops and US citizens. And I’m quite sure that some ACLU or Lawyer’s Guild type… if they can find the time in between bailing out their infestant anarchists out of jail… will step up to the plate to defend the suspected mole’s rights in any situation.
@liberalmann: What do you mean Bill Ayers killed no one? He only got off on a technicality, he is a domestic terrorist and another blog had a tape from 2008 where Ayers admitted that he launched Obama’s candicacy for state senator from his living room, whereas the liar in chief said all along that he was just someone in the hood. Left out all the dinners and meetings and committees they served on together.
YES very troubling law, who the hell allow those terrorist faction in the USA,
AND STILL ALLOWED IT AS WE COMMUNICATE,
A COLONEL was mentioning not so long ago; WE HAVE BEEN IN CONSTANT WARS SINCE THE WORLD WAR II, I found it very disturbing to be made aware of that truth, yes he was right,
dangerous path taken by THIS GOVERNMENT, BECAUSE THEY DON’T HAVE THE ABILITY
TO STOP IT, AND THE MILITARY MANY TOURS ARE TAKING THE TOLL ON THEM,
NO ONE SEEMS TO CARE,
on a different note, I JUST LEARNED SOMETHING ALSO VERY TROUBLING,
THAT THERE IS 20 MILLIONS NON VIOLENT LONG TIME FELONS AMERICANS IN THIS COUNTRY, WHICH ARE DESPERATE NOT ABLE TO LIVE THE AMERICAN DREAM, NOT EVEN ABLE TO FIND WORK.
20,000,000
I did not read anywhere that AMERICA had sold itself to
the WORLD POWER ORGANISATION ,
SO WHY NEGLECT ITS OWN CITIZENS, TO FAVOR THE REST OF THE GLOBE?
ARE THOSE NEW LAWS MEAN ANOTHER STEP TOWARD THE
SELL OUT OF AMERICA TO THE WORLD POWER ORG.?
THEY SEEMS TO BE IN A HURRY TO PASS IT.
S. 1867 also rescinds the UCMJ Article 125 forbidding sodomy and bestiality which states: “(a) Any person subject to this chapter who engages in unnatural carnal copulation with another person of the same or opposite sex or with an animal is guilty of sodomy. Penetration, however slight, is sufficient to complete the offense. (b) Any person found guilty of sodomy shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”
@liberalmann: I must have entered the Twilight Zone. What a bunch of Throwbacks. What year are you Guys coming from? Loser’s, former and current Military half Wits that are still fighting Viet Nam, which they lost. I know, I know how can I say that, if only we had the support of the Politicians back home.Boy we would have showed them. Come on, we had Air Power, 500,000 Boots on the Ground, Agent Orange and God knows what else. All this for a lie, remember Tonkin Gulf? Why can’t you Guys admit we were suckered. We attacked a helpless Country that was using 18th century Weapons and we still could not beat them.
Now we are in Iraq, we fell for the same lies. What Fools. Same 18th Century Weapons, same result. This time we had all the support we needed. But wait, if only we had better Rules of Engagement we could win. You can’t win. As in Life when you build anything, a Relationship, a Business, a War or anything else, start with a lie and you will not like the outcome. I have live it. USN Corpsman 1965-1969 3rd Marine Air Wing.
Perpetual war. The neocons must be feeling that thrilling tingle up their legs at the passage of SB 1867.
Our Founders must be rolling in their graves. Watched Greta the other day talking to MccccCain about it and he trying so very hard to defend it while she looked on horrified until shecould take it no more and cut the topic completely. Lindsey Graham, “the homeland is part of the battlefield.” Yes, mein furer.
Eighteenth Century weaponry? Really?
Are we speaking of flintlock smoothbore rifles and non-rifled cannons firing black powder? These are the military weapons of the late Eighteenth Century, examples of the weaponry used by the British against the American Colonists. Hyperbole can be employed to illustrate a point, but using it to the point of absurdity, casts doubt on the credibility of the author.
But if we analyze this assertion deeper, there are those in the Russian and Chinese munitions industry and in the Obama Administration, that would take offense at this insult to the Communist war manufacturing industry.
However, the Kalashnikov, mortar, 50 cal., artillery, grenade launchers, and SAMs might have turned the Revolutionary War in favor of the Brits. Although the SAMs might have been problematic, without planes to shoot down. LOL
@joe:
We could most certainly have won that war, and we were very close to it. Walter Cronkite and his left wing pals made winning about impossible.
Yet today Vietnam is more capitalistic than ever. So in truth, we won.
joe
hi,
you sure WON the realIty that the AMERICANS are making the difference between the MILITARY
FIGHTING THE WAR, and those in POWER dictating the RULES OF ENGAGEMENT, according to an AFGHAN corrupt GOVERNMENT sold of to the ENEMIES , AND BOTH MAKING DEALS WITH THEM, WHILE THE MILITARY ARE FIGHTING THEM,
AND THE RULES OF ENGAGEMENT ARE, if they drop their weapon at their feet after killing some OF OUR FIGHTERS, DON’T SHOOT THEM, AND IF YOU CAPTURE THEM, ROUND THEM UP IN A PRISON OPEN WINDOWS AND FORGET ABOUT THEM, they will sing the song till we meet again, and their family will get together with wife and their many children and neighbords and bury those cluster bombs for you, in the mean time,
THE AMERICAN KNOW YOU ARE THE BRAVEST OF THIS NATION, AGAINST A BUNCH OF COWARDS LEADING YOU TO WARS WITHOUT NO WAY OF ENDING IT IN A VICTORY FOR THE SAKE OF THOSE WHO SPILL THEIR BLOOD TO PROTECT THIS AMERICA, THEY ARE GIVING YOU THE TASKS OF BABY SITTERS TO PROTECT A BABY WITH A WEAPON TO KILL YOU WHILE YOU ROCK A BY THE BABY, YOU ARE THE BRAVE SOLDIER TO WIN A WAR NOT BABYSITTERS
AMERICA WILL REMOVE THE CORRUPTS AND GET YOU IN TO LEAD THIS NATION, THEN THERE WILL BE JUSTICE AND THE TRUTH WILL PREVAIL.
General Giap was a brilliant, highly respected leader of the North Vietnam military. The following quote is from his memoirs currently found in the Vietnam War memorial in Hanoi:
The war wasn’t lost in Indo China, the war was lost at home by people like Jane Fonda, John Kerry, Bill Ayers, and you Joe, and with help from an anti-American media.
@Skookum:
Absolutely right.
And you got me thinking about something.
Could we have killed the original Anwar Al-Awlaki?
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=jane+fonda+traitor&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=06t&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1366&bih=665&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnso&tbnid=gdgXpAKVFL-BVM:&imgrefurl=http://chowanriver.blogspot.com/2011/07/communist-icon-american-traitor.html&docid=bOZwlUFhb-gz-M&imgurl=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rWJHCv09Tyg/TiOMQ8uaYSI/AAAAAAAACsc/7K6adIVvLPE/s1600/hanoi-jane-traitor.jpg&w=938&h=711&ei=YVfaToKdMMrs0gGi1uWHDg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=924&vpy=133&dur=345&hovh=138&hovw=176&tx=178&ty=97&sig=106408572746251041417&page=3&tbnh=138&tbnw=176&start=40&ndsp=23&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:40
Is it too late to take out such an enemy combatant?
@Patrice: Aw, man. Some people are too far gone and listen to far too much Hannity. Keep believe old, debunked lies if it make you feel more comfortable in your xenophobia.
@DrJohn: Yeah? Keep thinking, genius. Lol!!
Dr. John, thanks for the credit for ending the illeagal War in Viet nam, laos and Cambodia but it was not me. It was every right thinking American that knew we were at war for a lie. Anyone on this Forum think that the war would be over even now if the People had not forced Nixon’s hand? Short of Nukes there was no way the carnage would have ever ended. The ramifacations of that war are still being felt, besides killing and maiming thousands , the illeagal Bombing of cambodia caused Pol Pot to come to power killing millions, and ex G.I.’s with PTSD are going Postal at home.
Since the Draft was abolished we do now have endless Wars. Unemployment makes it easy to recruit the great Unwashed. As long as we have a Warrior Class, who cares who dies. If there still was a Draft Iraq would never have happened and if it did it would not have lasted 10 years. After 10 years of War I do not know a single Family that has a Member serving.
When I said 18th Century weapons I was reffering to Mantraps, Tunnels and Punji Sticks. Skookum, funny you should quote Giap, during the War he was a liar,now he is a paragon of virture, do you think maybe he was lying when he said that just to get your reaction. Gee we were so close. Think, if America had been at war on our Shores for the better part of 40 Years and we had lost 30 million, the proportion of the Viet Population that was killed and injured, would we give up just because one more of our Cities were destroyed? I think not. America was doomed from the start, we entered into the war on lies, used every trick we knew, used every weapon in our Arsenel, except Nukes and had a 10,000 Mile supply line. Besides killing and maiming of our Best and Brightest. Do you Ex-Viet Nam Vets have a hard time sleeping? I wonder why.
The real Heros of Viet Nam were the Boys who said Hell No We Won’t Go. These Men were not Cowards,they risked everything to go to Canada. They lost their Families and Friends and knew they could not come home again, they were called vile names and yet they stood firm. Unlike a typical Draftee who may not have like the War, knew it was unjust or just didn’t care went anyway because they were affraid of the stigma. By 1969 no one went to protect the Country, that Lie had already sailed.
While I can’t take credit for ending the war, I am glad I did my part. I did enlist in 1965 but like most thinking G.I’s I soon seen the folly of this war. I was lucky to get out alive. Honorable Discharged Jan 1969 U.S.N Corpsman/Fleet marine Force.
@liberalmann:
Lenin didn’t personally kill anyone either, ditto for Hitler.
@Budvarackbar:
And it only took “liquidating” 6M people to make the numbers look good, nothing to see here, move along.
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2011/12/falling-unemployment-rate-is.html
Bill Ayers taught that millions of Americans should be sent to re-education camps where they would be convinced to go along with radical ideals…..or else simply be killed.
Gee, no wonder people rail against Obama’s new ”kill ’em where ever they are,” law!
We already know from Obama’s calling Fox News not a REAL news organization, from Janet Napolitano calling returning Veterans worthy of terrorist watch listing, and Holder’s cover-ups of voter intimidation and government gun running and money laundering that Obama looks at US as the enemies.
He never misses a chance to bow to Saudi princes, wish Islam a lovely Hajj or Eid (or both) and to side with Islamists over secular governments.
Nan G
WOW
again you found a jewel,
we can follow the thread of the intent just by re watching the movie,
incredibly similar, and scary to be close to the end battle to exit.
SKOOKUM
hi,
I read at FOX NEWS,
the students at GEORGIA UNIVERSITY, have been ask by their TEACHER to find weapons in CHINA, and the student after many work on the subject, found the most secret hidden tunnels where the weapons of ultimate destructive power where, and where created and where made all along those tunnels non stop.
they show many image of all they found
bye
This is an inane discussion.
Americans were killed fighting for Germany in WW2, you going to shed some tears over that?
It can’t go both ways…on one hand decrying the idiotic rules this administration has put down in the name of the terrorist’s “rights” on the battlefield and then on the other crying fowl over some indoctrinated citizen idiot’s “rights” on the same battlefield.
GET OVER IT in regards to this talking point, not only is it a glaring hypocrisy, it’s just plain illogical.
The bottom line is you decide to go play and/or hang out with the baddies, then you assume a *GREAT DEAL* of personal responsibility and expectation of incurring harm. This isn’t the first, nor likely the last, time that some idiot citizen gets himself dead due to choosing the wrong side.
malize
hi
I’m trying to understand you,
which wrong side the citizen choose to go, and be killed,
do you mean the MILITARY SIDE? IN ALL THESE WARS,
WHAT do you find illogical
If Fox ” News” was “Fair and balanced” then they would have as many Critics on the Right as they do on the Left. The fact that Fox just had a “Debate” and only had Republicans asking the questions must tell you something.
joe
hi,
yes it must tell you that the other debates where not well done by the one questioning
with the aim to receive a full answer complete , instead of their own persona shining under the camera,
they choose the time line of each CANDIDATES WHEN IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE ANSWER OF THE CANDIDATE TO DETERMINE THE TIME LINE, AND THE FORM DID NOT SHOW THE AMERICAN THE REAL POTENTIAL OF EACH ONE,
SO HUCKABEE DID A REAL ONE ON ONE FOR THEM IN A REPUBLICAN HARD QUESTIONS,
BY REPUBLICANS GOVERNORS WHO KNOWS THE PROBLEM OF THIS NATION MORE THAN JOURNALIST COULD ASK FOR, AND IT WAS THE REAL THING,
HUCKABEE KNOW IT FOR HAVING BEEN THROUGH IT BEFORE
@malize:
We’re not talking about some foreign “battlefield.” We’re talking about battlefield USA. That changes everything.
@joe:
Yeah, that it was a debate for the republican primary.
@ilovebeeswarzone:
bees,
not the military side.
the phenomena of a very small minority of US citizens fighting for our enemies is historically not so rare that people should be making a Constitutional case out of this particular crappy administration being in charge when we happen to kill one in the field…this could just as easily have happened during any other President’s watch.
a citizen who makes the *choice* to go and fight against the United States beyond our borders is reasonably expected to understand the potential consequences of that choice…end of story. Period.
@joe:
Whoa! Holy revisionist history Batman!
malize
thank you, for coming back, I agree with it,
why is the word traitor not mentioned any more to describe those selling AMERICA.
BYE
joe
hi,
and that was not a debate at all, just question directed to one alone, and time to answer,
very different formula, which should be adopted,
bye
@ilovebeeswarzone:
bees, the word “traitor” is simply not practicable anymore in this politically correct / moral equivalency infested group think that has invaded the American culture.
Themosticles was so worried about being thought a traitor for his bit of pre-battle psyops with the appearance of traitorous actions … and of course that penalty would’ve been a swiftly inflicted death for him…but today, not so much.
Nathan Hale would have no fear of having to give his one life within the bounds of the modern conceptual void in relation to traitorous acts…nor, for that matter, would Benedict Arnold.
The modern soft-on-traitorous acts has a genesis with Clement Vallandingham…who often enough seemed to be alive in the bodies of Pelosi, Reid, and Obama during Bush’s term in office. In some ways its like you are seeing some transmuted version of what administrations would have been like had Lincoln lost that 1864 election and Copperheads took charge of the government at war.
Benedict Arnold betrayed the Congressional Army simply over money issues, not for fame or loyalty to the crown, but that’s beside the point considering he made a total dumbwit of himself to the service of the Army and was demoted twice with the only means to pay the debts of living in luxury off of borrowing was to crawl back to the crown least the loan sharks have his kneecaps…
And in situation of this, what is very disturbing is the declaration that the United States is considered an active battleground in the Global War now when there has been no major military battles against AQ, Hamas or Iranian Guard on our Soil and, “hostile” act has not been clearly defined within this passage. Would a anti-policy rally be considered, “hostile” enough? Would holding Town halls for Politicans running in opposite political ideology to whomever is sitting President be deemed, “hostile” enough? Where does it end? This is the works of a tyrant’s mind at it’s best and it is horrible.
And for the liberal-tards out there, what if this policy is kept in place when a true Warmonger who utterly hates Liberals, for example, comes into power as President and chooses to use this piece of policy to purge liberals? Hmm? Is that policy what you all want to keep cheering and defending about? To dance on the double edged sword is suicide. Backing this policy for either political side is madness and should not be celebrated over or endorsed. It is one thing to seek out a Citizen to be arrested for being suspect to physicaly damage the Nation and harm its Citizens, as there are laws in how to deal with Traitors for that matter. It is another problem in all to just declare the USA a battlefield where unmanned drone strikes can be authorized without any sort of Warrant issued on American suspects of Treason, as we do not have laws for this sort of behavior and mindset.
I admit it, I voted for Obama, here is why. In 2008 the Supreme Court was made up of 5 on the Right and 4 on the Left. Everyone knew that whoever got elected would nominate at least 2 and maybe 3 Justice’s If a Republican had won he would have put in 2 Rights and the Court would have been 7-2 and with Ginsberg on the Ropes it could even be 8-1 I don’t think anyone wants a Court with an overall majority no matter which way they lean for the next 50 Years. ps. I am not happy with Obama He should have Perp walked the whole Bush Regime for Torture and illeagal Wars.
@joe:
It’s always amusing to read the bleatings of liberals who confuse wishes with facts.
Now for some real facts: Obama has rountinely violated the Constitution.
JOE
will you repeat the same words, after 2012 election,
that will be stuck in your throath, perp, perp, perp,OBAMA
@drjohn:
Mata’s already covered that. I find it odd that this is the second posting on this topic on FA — with almost the same title and nearly the same “discussion” afterward.
However, I’ll reinforce that you either misread or chose to mislead regarding the interpretation of the new laws allowing a POTUS to assassinate citizens domestically. Your own source *DOES NOT SAY THIS* — you cherry picked your quote from your source when even a casual perusal of that same article shows that when taken in context with the writer’s own quotes from the proposed law — the inclusion of domestic US within the “battlefield” definition applies ONLY to being detained by the military — such detention and supposed review by military tribunal also ONLY within the context of being associated with the enemies so named.
Again…the ghost of Clement Vallandingham pops into my head.
Mr. Irons
yes the real danger and even emphasize by the wrong leader being in power at this time,
who dictate his agressive decisions without asking CONGRESS TO WADGE ON IT AND GIVE THE PERMISSION TO GO OR DENY IT TO BE IMPLEMENTED, AND AGAIN LEAVE THE OPEN DOOR
to the UN ORG. TO URGE IT AND EVEN DEMAND PUBLICLY TO THE USE OF ARMS ON THIS SOIL AGAINST A GROUP PERFECTLY DEVOTED TO THE CONSTITUTION OF THIS AMERICA , TO BE FOUGHT BY A TREATEROUS LEADERSHIP WITH HIS WILLINGLY CORRUPT PARTY MORE THAN HAPPY TO COOPERATE WITH THE UN. ORG. REQUEST FOR THE PURPOSE TO ADVANCE THEIR OWN AGENDA to change the laws.
BEING THREATEN AT THIS TIME, AS IF THIS BILL WAS MEANT FOR THIS TIME IN HISTORY, TO PASS FOR THEIR ADVANTAGE TO USE IT THIS ELECTION YEAR. same as other bill passed for their agenda of entitlement,