Been awhile since I put up a open thread so…..
For Bill Clinton the liberals said – “Can’t prove it, therefore she is lying….MOVE ON!”
For Herman Cain the liberals said – “He can’t prove she is lying therefore….HE’S A PERV!”
13 Nov
Weekly Open Thread – The Liberal “Cain” Hypocrisy Edition **Bumped**
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Sunday, November 13th, 2011 at 8:30 pm | 883 views
@Tom:
Okay, let’s say I accused you of attempting to gay-rape me. Is that reasonable for the media to run 40 or 50 stories based on my accusation? If there is NO corroborating evidence, should even one story be run?
Bear in mind, that these stories could ruin your reputation, your employment and your marriage. None of your friends may see you in the same light again.
You are telling me, all I have to do is allege that this happened?
@Gary Kukis: @Gary Kukis:
We’ll file that one under Wishful Thinking, Gary…
By the way, Gary, how would all of your proposed draconian anti-gay measures have stopped the married father football coach at Penn State from raping children, apparently with the tacit consent of all those other straight football guys and school administrators? I thought you had it all figured out, how to protect our children with a few easy measures, like imprisoning all gay people, but I fail to see how your implementations would have prevented this tragedy. This guy was probably as straight-seeming as you, after all.
@Tom:
Hmmm… Has there been a conviction that I missed? Has there been a confession?
Or… Are you simply convicting people in the shallow depths of your mind based on press reports?
Guess Mata was right about you.
By the way, nice straw man response to Gary in #52.
@Aye:
I did respond to his fantasy scenario. He broached the topic on an open thread and that’s where it went. When someone responds specifically to what I wrote in post 27, rather than regurgitating general talking points, it will be the first time. It would be nice if you could moderate fairly for a change rather than playing the sidekick, but we can’t escape who we are .
@Tom:
And… yet another straw man argument from Tom.
Why am I not surprised?
@Aye:
I am equally unsurprised by your lame hijacking of this discussion, taking it off topic. (Or is it ironically on-topic? Will your inept and baseless accusations draw fire from the would-be censors?) You seem to always perform your ritual right around the time your best buddies’ arguments have degenerated into incoherence and your actions always have a faint whiff of embarrassment about them, at being driven to such measures (as they should). Here comes Aye with his menagerie of strawmen. Can I have one? Oh wait, you’ve already given me two. Your work is done here, Aye, as is mine.
@Tom:
And… unwilling or unable to stand and defend his flaccid attempts to avoid and divert in #52 and #54, Tom runs for the exit.
Just exactly what I expected.
@Aye:
I think I made my position quite clear regarding the freedom of the press, as have those who would impinge upon it for political purposes. Picture that, me defending the Constitution from a bunch of Right Wingers who would trample it under foot… strange times indeed. Although this is actually not shocking. While you like to play the part of the Unwaveringly Righteous, my theory all along has been that the majority of you (with a few notable exceptions) are just run of the mill extreme partisans with elastic principles. If Cain was a Democrat (dimocrat?) most of what was written above would be swung 180 degrees in the opposite direction by the same people. I can’t tell you how easy it is to dress the extreme partisan in motley.
@Tom:
Another response and still nothing there to address Gary’s #51 or my #53.
Leaving yourself twisting in the wind like that. Tsk, tsk. How embarrassing for you.
And you used your own rope too.
Tom usually runs away when it becomes clear he’s an extreme leftwing partisan here only to troll.
@TommyBoy: I’m sorry what is it you said? Hard to understand you with that big red rubber nose you’re wearing.
…more NEW POLLS with Cain on Top of them ALL:
That CBS News poll is just bizarre with 3 different categories for “Not Sure”
(1.) undecided/don’t know, (2.) someone else, (3.) No One
…was that to make the undecideds appear artificially high?
Whatever…
SAME PATTERN except Gingrich is now starting to overtake Romney
…looks like the 0bamaAxelrod smear machine didn’t work. Aw, woe as them
As usual, read into this new polling data whatever you please…
@Aye:
My response to Gary was an appropriate level of disbelief that, given his preoccupations, he decided to inject, of all things, “gay-rape” into a discussion about freedom of the press. Am I the only one who finds it remarkable the degree to which sodomy preoccupies this man’s mind? My general approach to message board etiquette is I will treat others as they treat me. I’m happy to have a respectful discussion, but if someone comes at me with an attitude and wants to play the clown, I’ll just as happily get out of their way, and perhaps give them a nudge to help (Antics and HR and fill you in on the results). If I was harsh to Gary, well it’s because I have a low tolerance for bigots. My apologies, Gary.
As to your unfounded charge that I’m being evasive, I already addressed Garty’s point above in #17. Am I supposed to repeat myself just because others are too dull-witted to keep up? Here is what I wrote:
So for all Gary’s creepy and ridiculous hypotheticals, and for all the monotonous bellyaching about the media being “unfair”, you still haven’t explained how you would remedy this short of taking unconstitutional action. Would you like to see the government get involved? Hypothetically, I suppose we could set up a Department of Media Oversight. President Obama could select a “Czar” to oversee it, and this department could screen all media prior to release, suppressing stories that it deems unsubstantiated. Would this level of government intrusion satisfy Gary? It might stop a charge that he gay-raped someone from seeing the light of day, a fear he clearly lives with for some reason. Of course this is all fantasy, because no court would uphold such an unconstitutional measure. So we’re back to reality, where it’s all just bitching and moaning about the MSM, I guess (or, as Mata already pointed out,there are already available measures within the court system that both Gary and Cain can avail themselves to, if they so choose). Please, feel free to continue, but don’t act as if media is not entirely within their rights to report facts about Presidential candidates. Those of us who don’t choose to willingly live in ignorance actually prefer it that way.
@Art: Art, I appreciate your efforts with Greg but I assure you his Kool Aid-Blood ratio is far far to elevated for him to ever ever understand what’s true and what’s idiot liberal left wing spin. My advie, although admirable, don’t waste your time on this loser.
@liberalmann: Art, huh???? Your mind is so deranged you left out a very very important fact. Dude, Clinton was guilty and it was his excrement on the Blue Dress and all over the MSM who attempted to wipe it off without anyone seeing them. Got any proof on Cain bring it forward or go back to kindergarten recess.
We are almost through the year of 2011.
So, how many of these NAME THAT PARTY articles can the apologists for the Left find in the media where a Republican is not identified as affiliated with that party?
These are just a few I found by poking around the web…..Democrat Party NOT Named:
1. Jon Corzine is in the midst of a spectacular fall from grace.
He was the head of Goldman Sachs, he was a U.S. Senator, and later governor of New Jersey.
Well, his latest job as head of financial brokerage firm MF Global came to an end today.
The firm failed four days ago.
Over $600 million in customer funds is missing, and the whole enterprise is now under investigation.
Corzine has hired a prominent criminal defense lawyer. NBC anchor Brian Williams. Nov 1.
2. CBS anchor Scott Pelley and correspondent Anthony Mason
SCOTT PELLEY: There were some developments today in the collapse of that Wall Street trading firm, MF Global. The head of that company, Jon Corzine – who is a former U.S. Senator, former head of Goldman Sachs, former governor of New Jersey – he resigned today. What are the developments there?
ANTHONY MASON: Well, he, in resigning, Scott, he gave up a $12 million severance package, and, in a statement, said he felt great sadness, but he did not apologize for the collapse of the company, and investigators are still looking for $600 million in missing customer money.Nov 1.
3. “Racine alderman is charged assaulting woman.”
A Racine alderman has been charged with assaulting a woman who worked for him.
Keith Fair was charged Monday with strangulation and suffocation, misdemeanor battery and disorderly conduct.
The woman and the 59-year-old alderman are in a relationship and she is employed by him as a private investigator and a bartender, according to a criminal complaint.
He was driving her home early Friday when the two argued and she pushed Fair’s face, according to the complaint. Fair then grabbed her by the throat and began to punch her while squeezing her throat, according to the woman, who is pregnant. Oct 4
4. Associated Press’s coverage of Luzerne County, Pennsylvania judge Mark Ciavarella is that they have been consistent. That is, the wire service, led by reporter Michael Rubinkam, up to and including today, has consistently and disgracefully failed to tag the infamous “Kids for Cash” jurist and his judicial colleague in crime Michael Conahan as a Democrat.
5. Former Santa Fe County Sheriff Greg Solano, who pleaded guilty Wednesday to five felony counts, is a Democrat. July 2011
What follows are the results of three searches demonstrating that every media outlet which can be found by Google News which has tracked the story in the past 30 days has failed to note Solano’s party affiliation.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/2011/07/22/name-party-no-media-report-acknowledges-embezzling-santa-fe-nm-sheriff-d
6. Blagojevich’s Democratic Affiliation After Conviction Omitted by Networks. June 2011
7. Blagojevich’s Democratic Affiliation Left Out of Seven AP Stories June 2011
8. NY Times Omits John Edwards’s Party ID After Indictment!!!! June 2011.
9. The New York Times’s Web site on Tuesday reported, “Former City Council Leader Avoids Prison for Tax Evasion.”
The New York Times did omit one salient fact: Stein is a Democrat. March 2011.
10. Baltimore Sun Omits Party Affiliation of Mayor
Voting on Contracts That Favor Husband’s Company March 2011.
11. David Wu not ID’ed as a Democrat by AP Feb 2011
12. Time Magazine also fails to ID David Wu as a Democrat. Feb 2011.
13. Of the 351 stories about Bell, CA’s overpaid officials only one tells their reader that all of them are Democrats. Feb 2011.
14. CBS News in Detroit and the Associated Press Do Not ID Again-Indicted Former Detroit Mayor Kilpatrick as a Democrat. Dec 2010.
Larry Sinclair
I believe a person named Larry Sinclair reported sexual abuse at the hands of Obama including oral sex, coke, and limo rides. Happened in Minneapolis as I recall. Don’t remember the media jumping on that. As what Tom says, the media does has a right to investigate allegations of candidates. They just don’t report some. I read about Weiner (and saw pics) around the web for at least 2 weeks before the msm reported. And even then it was spin for a few days. You know, only allegations.
@Nan G:
Great post Nan, on the liberal media NOT naming the Democrat Party in Democrat scandals.
Their hypocrisy is off the chart
…Again – Great comment – It should be a MAIN post on this website
Plantation negros over at NPR had a bit of racism to spread against Herman Cain.
http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=142218107
1. Harvard professor Randall Kennedy:
“Black people know that if Herman Cain had his way, their lives would be diminished.
And they intuit that Herman Cain’s policies are against their interests.”
2. Former Time reporter Jack E. White:
“Herman Cain tells them what they want to hear about blacks, and in turn, they embrace him and say, see, that proves we aren’t racist. He’s even willing to be a minstrel for them.”
When the hypocrisy is from one person another name for it is cognitive dissonance.
Cognitive Dissonance: Holding two opposing views in one’s head —- at the same time.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Debbie Wasserman-Schultz (June 2011)
(Asked: Do you think that your colleague has done enough to explain himself?)
I think Anthony Weiner is dealing with a personal matter and that’s where it should be left.
CBS’s Early Show
(Wolf BLITZER asked: Because Eric Cantor, the Republican, the majority leader in the House of Representatives, he says that Anthony Weiner has a lot more explaining to do, if you will.)
Anthony Weiner is dealing with a personal matter, and it should be left as a personal matter.
CNN Situation Room
(Asked: But some Democrats themselves are complaining that this is a distraction and he needs to be more forthcoming. So do you just wish he’d come out with more of the facts to make this go away?)
I really think it’s a personal matter that is something that Anthony Weiner needs to deal with himself.
CNN’s John King, USA
Debbie Wasserman-Schultz Nov 2011
Wolf Blitzer asked if she believed Cain or his accusers.
“I think Herman Cain needs to come clean and address them and say far more than he’s said already.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~
No wonder her hair is so curly.
Her brain must spin around and round all the time for her to hold such opposing views in it all the time!
@Nan G: Maybe that is why liberals are always so angry, they get frustrated keeping up with themselves…
You seem to be laboring under the inability to discern differences between facts, 1st Amendment rights, and libel/slander, Tom. Despite many attempts by others and me here, it still slides over your head that this is not a nation that adjudicates via the media…. tho dancing on the edge of legalities is a common political strategy these days. What they bank on is that they can say anything, shake confidence, and hope they don’t cross the line so overtly that the victim of their assault brings charges. I’m already on record hoping Cain will not take this type of political campaigning lying down, and was glad to see @Steve point out that Cain has now put a legal guardian on his shoulder to keep an eye on such activity.
But let’s clear things up on a base level, where you operate. Slander and libel are certainly within one’s 1st Amendment rights. However that still doesn’t make it an activity that is beyond legal bounds of other laws… outside of that right. As I said, your rights under the 1st Amendment end when they infringe on mine. And my path to that is thru the judicial recourse of slander/libel laws.
I also notice that you decided to make a flippant observation to Gary’s analogy of gay rape, and then simply divert directly away from a response.
Try this on for size. I saw you sexually harass your neighbor’s 17-year-old daughter about a decade ago, Tom. I’ve kept my tongue all this time… after all, she was a girl well known for that sexual proclivity and aggressive in her targets. And she targeted you. I even kept quiet when you decided to run for a local council seat.
But now you’ve decided to run for an elected position in the House of Representatives, and frankly… I don’t want you there.
I’m not going to call child services or the police on you. After all, if I was doing so to prevent others from being the victim of you – a sexual predator – that moment of opportunity has passed. Naw… I’m not going to call any authorities. I’m simply going to call a lawyer. Not even a respectable lawyer, who adjudicates most of their cases in court, but a hot shot tabloid attorney with the clout to arrange press conference after press conference – all so I can tell my side of the story over and over. It doesn’t even matter that tho there’s not much to tell.
You don’t get to cross examine me in court, Tom, because I’m not going to allow you to go to court to contradict my story. I’m using the court of public opinion instead. And the more I can saturate the airwaves, the better chance I have.
And oh, BTW, I’ve got some offers for a book deal that have come up featuring you, so don’t think this is the last you’ll see of me. I’ll hound you as long as it’s profitable… or until my own preferred candidate gets the job…. which ever I find more important at the moment.. Hang.. if the press doesn’t care enough to sort out the real facts in my story, maybe both. What’s stopping me?
It doesn’t matter the circumstance of why you were at your neighbor’s, alone with their daughter. Or that she deliberately invited you over when her parents were out of the house in order to invite a sexual encounter. None of that matters because the only thing that does have legs is that I have a willing media, happy to let me repeat the same story over and over… and all based totally on my word alone. I’ll just make sure I can add a salacious tidbit here and there to keep it alive.
But hey, according to you, it’s legitimate “news” that I even surface with the tale of your antics.
Wow… where does that end?
Is the media free to “report” on such “breaking news”? Well, legally, they can say anything they want… as well as me… unless you – the target – decide to haul me or the press into a court of law for slander or libel.
The more important question – is this reflective of honorable and original journalistic standards?
Not when I took classes on journalism.
News is actually based on facts, and elevating someone’s hearsay story to national stature, sans evidence, is not a fact. But let’s take your argument… that they are doing their duty to the nation by “investigating” accusations.
What “investigating”, Tom? If the media were actually doing the job you try to futilely insist they are, they wouldn’t be wasting time with letting Ms. BuyALink babble. They’d be tracking down specific dates, hotel records and other evidence that lent even a smidgeon of credibility to the story. They’d be looking to see if Cain had an alibi for that time. That’s called “investigative journalism”, Tom. And that’s not to be confused with just giving Ms. BuyALick, or me in my analogy, unchallenged airtime. But then, they miss the obvious for the ratings and agenda… that Ms. BuyALick will not name a specific date, so they have no where to go but to cling to the sordid for effect. Convenient about no real dates, don’t you think?
This pretty much eviscerates your observation in #27, that “journalists are also professionals with codes of ethics and best practices” If they had any such “ethics”, they would be getting to the truth of the accusation.
You could be innocent, Tom. Or you could be guilty as sin. No one will ever know because the facts of the accusation don’t matter… only the pathetic “fact” (as you call it) that I decided to take to the airwaves to destroy your character.
But since I have your blessing our judicial system works thru our 4th rail media, and all within the 1st Amendment rights … stay tuned for tomorrow’s news conference….featuring you.
Or perhaps you might consider the real way… that I could (and should) be sued for slander. Altho I will say that the price you will pay for fighting back against such despicable, undocumented he said/she said accusations in the proper venue (the courts) will be, of course, that your bid for the House of Representatives is toast.
And ya know, that’s all I wanted to do anyway.
Oh yes, more of your supposed irrefutable wisdom from #27
Is it possible you are this naive? Sad, really. Do you think that the media assault on Palin wasn’t designed to “bring her down”? Politics in this nation is pure filth. Been that way since the beginning actually. It’s just that in this new info age, filth can be spread wider and more easily.
Yes, journalists are human, and will have bias. However today’s crop of hacks don’t even try to disguise their bias in “news” anymore. And, in fact, has redefined what constitutes “news”… as you’ve aptly shown has been successful.
And your last bit of supposed sage advice?
FA and blogs are not those perpetuating the story. We are those that are pointing out the agenda of the major news media by not getting to the bottom of the accuser’s evidence, and instead just highlighting the accuser’s very presence. If the media will not do the job of “investigative reporting”, it is left to the rest of the new media to do their job.
Thus why the MSM hot shots are wilting on the vine.
Oh.. so now *some* evidence (or is it now “overwhelming evidence” as your criteria) is required by you for an accusation [not] to be made lightly, as opposed to the *no* evidence from Ms. BuyALick? LOL
There is more evidence that Ms. BuyALick’s account is a pure fabrication from a gold digger’s imagination than there is that the event ever took place at all. No records and receipts of her visit, even on taxes for write offs? That certainly would have pulled more weight than a couple of friend’s/boyfriend’s affidavits that simply say she told them the same lie before.
In this case, without the accuser offering up any substance of evidence, or even providing a date this heinous act took place, I side with our judicial system that Cain is innocent until the accuser brings evidence that would stand up in a court of law. Until she does that, she’s a gold digging opportunist with not much going for her upstairs, and engaging in slander.
Mata, as farfetched as it may sound, I was thinking, what if her story was created way back then? What if her boyfriend was about to give her the heave ho and she came up with this little poor me story to appeal to his sympathy? and, BINGO, opportunity strikes.
I should be paying attention to some of my Illinois blogs, something about her is bound to pop up as my area is not too far from the mentioned towns her shack up joints have been in.
Allegations true or untrue, I think the way he’s handled it has been just as harmful. And this latest bumbling is probably the final nail in the coffin as far as being the GOP candidate:
Word Cain’s latest gaffe can’t be blamed on the dreaded MSM. This man is clearly not ready for Prime Time and it will only get worse as the grueling primary season rolls on.Gingrich and Romney in epoch duel with the gadfly Paul and horse’s — Perry providing entertaining diversions.
Herman will go back to radio.
@Richard Wheeler:
I agree. I also think the way he and his campaign staff have handled the allegations have been abysmal.