TEA Party versus OWS Mob

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The Democrats are banking on the Occupy Wall Street Mob becoming the sacrificial lambs for the reelection of Obama; however, it is patently obvious, they are not capturing public sympathy with their bizarre messages and disgusting lifestyle. Poets rarely write of the beauty of fleas and parasites or those who carry them.

Their efforts are a but forlorn hope for this fall, reality in the form of winter and or disease will kill them, maybe literally and no one will care. The public is more than willing to concede stupidity is its’ own reward; especially, in the “rebel without a cause” syndrome of ignorance.

But be assured, the demonstrations will be reforming in late spring, these may indeed become a threat to freedom and liberty. If Democrat strategists can formulate a working, yet simple reason to riot that all the witless ones can remember, degenerates need little more incentive to gather for drugs, sex, and rock n roll; there will be Hell to pay in the streets, when the weather heats up and the police are sent in to break up the orgies of excess.

These protests have been a half wits’ interpretation of Saul Alynsky’s “Rules For Radicals” and in the haze of lunacy that passes for logic from Nancy Pelosi, it is perceived as a righteous movement and in essence an offshoot of the anti-Viet Nam protests that Pelosi and others cavorted around showing their asses during her youth. The anti-war protests essentially caused the loss of a war to an enemy that was defeated and prepared to throw in the towel. Regrettably, Pelosi and the Socialist bigots she speaks for, see this as a great victory for those who want to transform America into a Socialist State.

Back then, there was a unifying message for those willing to demonstrate and go on a rampage, it generated from a weariness of a war started by JFK. There were also underground leaders, with intelligence, coordinating a unified effort. The degenerates and unrepentant domestic terrorists Bill Ayers and his harpie wife Bernadine Dohrn, friends and neighbors of the Obama family, are examples of this underground leadership; they are not stupid, in fact, they are highly intelligent people and more importantly, they know how to lead incredibly stupid people and direct mobs. Skills and abilities, Pelosi and friends must envy. Unfortunately, for the modern day Socialist protest movement, the people who direct Obama and the leaders like Pelosi have proven themselves to be incredibly inept at leading and directing.

The Democrat Party and their leadership want these people to succeed and have the public fall in love with the nobility of the protests; unfortunately, for the public to embrace the protests, there must be a coherent message and at least a pretension of noble ideas; so far, they merely appear to be self-serving hedonists out for a lark and the possible excitement of heroic civil disobedience, if an opportunity arises.

The public is not as easily manipulated as they were in days of TV, radio, and newspapers. The MSM cannot invent a cause for the malcontents and claim them to be noble. In these modern times, there are too many like Breitbart, Fox, and independents like us, who are willing to wade through the filth and depravity to find the real story. These guys are the true heroes, they are actually protecting the liberty of our country by exposing the degenerates living in squalor and filth while they consume drugs and engage in public sex to keep the momentum alive; rather than allowing the lies and propaganda of the Democrats and their propaganda bureaus know as the MSM to sway public opinion. Otherwise, the pimps and whores of the MSM would be able to convince the public of the humiliation and degradation these saints have suffered while trying to preserve our Constitution and our way of life. In other words they would feed us lies and propaganda and we would believe a lot of it and the police would become the henchmen of corporate greed. The Dems want to develop this scenario, but there are no leaders in the Mass of Morons. Many of those interviewed and can only express hatred of the Jew and other types of bigoted nonsense.

We can rightly criticize Ayers the degenerate and his harpy wife Dohrn, but the truth is they are intelligent people, despicable pieces of human waste, but intelligent; the Sixties had many brilliant people leading the protests and in the center of the action. They knew they were leading mindless misfits, but they were able to manage and manipulate the mobs. If these people are depending on Pelosi and the idiots directing every move of Obama, they are doomed to failure and will continue to be categorized as a mindless mob.

Bloomberg thinks the mob will find leadership and become a political force to be reckoned with, he is willing to gamble his political future on that assumption, but more importantly he is sending a message to New York City and across the country that such mindless mobs are automatically a legitimate force to be taken seriously, regardless of their lack of a message.

Bloomberg and the leadership of the Democrat Party are hoping beyond common sense that the OWS Mob will congeal into an effective antithesis to the TEA Party. There is a real problem with that line of thinking, assuming Bloomberg is even capable of thought. The TEA Party had many brilliant minds forming a unified message a long time before the earliest members walked out on the sidewalk that first time. There was a unifying force, the disgust and revulsion of the corruption and profligacy of Obama and his government.

The TEA Party demonstrators were well disciplined members of mainstream America with a coherent message that resonated with Americans of the heartland; fiscal responsibility has been difficult for the propaganda writers of the MSM and the Democrat party to condemn, but they tried and they are still trying to condemn these people from the heartland who believe in the Constitution.

With quiet dignity and a dedication to the principles of the Constitution, TEA Party members gained the attention and respect from other respectable members of mainstream America. They didn’t walk around in the nude, use sex as artistic and philosophical expression, they didn’t get whacked on drugs; they presented themselves as the type of American that everyday Americans are proud to be identified with.

When spring comes and Obama has impressed America with his military adventurism by starting a new war or two and managed to get many more patriotic Americans killed because he lacks any pretense of diplomacy or leadership, look for the OWS Mob to evolve into a more effective political tool of the Democrat Party. The Democrats know they have a potential for a mindless mob, that is ready to jump into the fray and engage in mindless hedonism for the sake of Obama. Thus if the Keystone Cop types in the White House can construct a unified message and plans for the mobs, there will be Hell to pay in the streets next summer. They only want to transform America and using the mob is seen as a tool to be used in the transformation. But a word of caution to the White House, mobs throughout history have often become unruly and sometimes they turn on their handlers for unintended consequences.

The police will be busy next year; they will be dealing with the desperation and frustration of Obama trying to win reelection after four years of failure. Thus the TEA Party and the OWS Mob have arisen from the same primordial ooze and have a similar DNA, they both owe their existence to a failed presidency that has been rejected by mainstream America and the antics of an incompetent president who is desperately running around like the proverbial outhouse rat seeking to renew his lease on the White House.

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@Randy: Then there are other means of addressing thise preceived wrongs. You do not have the right to infring on my rights with out consequences.

@Randy: And not one single corrupt banker, who’ve infringed on the rights of others without consequence, has been indicted. So I guess we don’t entirely disagree.

@Cary: Cary, the issue here is that the current administration will not prosecute the people who contributed to their campaign. So because of them you feel you can infringe on my rights? Is that a little insane?

@Randy: Seems like the hyperbole is perpetrated on both sides. I think I’ve been clear about what I think is insane. As for which political side to blame, please refer to the video I posted above. I’m not insane enough to think that I can say anything more to make you agree with me.

He has been way too quiet during all the OWS noise plus there was no golf this weekend, his MO has always been to use smokescreens in the past which adds up to O’BoomBox conieving again so he’s up to something ugly.

Cary: I think I’ve been clear about what I think is insane.

Not really, Cary. I don’t get what you are arguing at all since it seems to come out of both sides of your complaints.

In discussing the rights of peaceful redress, you are standing on the ladder of the firetruck, proclaiming the rights of the protesters to stomp on the rights of others as being sacred.

Then you admit they can buy off the lawmakers… but this doesn’t bother you… and then wonder about corrupt bankers getting away with things? Is the law for all? Or only those you don’t like?

Well first of all, it’s Obama’s admin who has deigned not to do a lot of prosecutions. Why Because they weren’t necessarily doing anything illegal. After all, investors invest, borrowers willingly take out loans with full knowledge of their real income, and people bank, by free will and choice.. not by mandate. What do you want them prosecuted for?

If you’re talking about risky investments, the only ones who made those risky investments possible was Congress via regulations. So why do you want to prosecute private financial institutions who complied with Congressional law?

Shouldn’t you be screaming from the ballot box (not the couch…) at those who laid the groundwork an enabled the financial crises instead of those who complied with the ensuing “corrections” and the idiot Congress chose to implement it all?

@MataHarley: If Cary was screaming from the couch, I would not have a problem with her. I would not have a problem having her screaming any where unless it prevents me from enjoying my rights. The Tea Party protests and I support them for the most part. I will always support their right to protest as long as they follow the law. When a protestor violates the law to protest someone else protesting the law, are they any better than those they are protesting against?

@MataHarley: I’m sorry you don’t get what I’m trying to say. You’ve already indicated that you know the difference between civil disobedience and malicious harm towards others, so I’ll leave it at that. Crowds interfering with foot and road traffic is not uncommon to NYC – try visiting during the Christmas season! And you know darn well that I vote! Peace.

@Randy: Cary Grant was a wonderful actor, wasn’t she? 😉

Common mistake… it’s all fine. Have a good one.

@MataHarley: If Cary was screaming from the couch, I would not have a problem with her. I would not have a problem having her screaming any where unless it prevents me from enjoying my rights. The Tea Party protests and I support them for the most part. I will always support their right to protest as long as they follow the law. When a protestor violates the law to protest someone else violating the law, are they any better than those they are protesting against?

@Cary: Was that a real name or stage name?

@Randy: Archibald Leach was his real name. Cary, spelled as such, is a Celtic (specifically Welsh) form of Charles.

@MataHarley, #39:

“Sticky tape”?

Refer to official reports concerning the sticky tape used by the dirty communist hippies who converged on the Madison, Wisconsin State Capitol earlier this year–otherwise known as teachers, firemen, police officers, and other sordid (or assorted, depending upon your point of view) public employees.

State says damage to marble at Capitol could hit $7.5 million.

Official estimates were subsequently revised downward to a total of $347,500. That figure was also discounted as an exaggeration when it was revealed that the $347,500 included the estimated costs of returning the Capitol Building and grounds to the state they were in as of 2001–not just the cost of repairing alleged sticky tape damages. The Department of Administration inspected the building after all posters and banners had been removed, and found no specific damages that could be attributed to tape or the the protesters. Subsequent to that, no further official statements were made. (They also failed to respond to an offer by Wisconsin members of the International Union of Painters and Allied Trades to repair any Capitol Building damages free of charge. Whatever the actual costs were–assuming there were any–the Walker administration apparently preferred to let Wisconsin taxpayers pick up the bill.)

Greg: Refer to official reports concerning the sticky tape used by the dirty communist hippies who converged on the Madison, Wisconsin State Capitol earlier this year–otherwise known as teachers, firemen, police officers, and other sordid (or assorted, depending upon your point of view) public employees.

Oh, so we can add the WI union thugs (anti-tea party/conservative demonstrations, to say the least…) destruction to the OWS destruction… but you can’t come up with *any*… and I do mean *ANY*…. TP destruction that comes close? How about elongated “woodstock” style campouts and no permits that result in long term local government debt for law enforcement overtime? Want to take that one on too, Greg?

Point made. As Aye would say, “Thanks for playing”….

ADDED: And I don’t care if they were canonized saints, Greg. If they destroy public property and infringe on the rights of others, they are still union thugs and scum. Or dupes/useful idiots. Take your pick. Also ironic since their pensions/futures/401Ks depend upon the success that Wall Street also enjoys. You see, the benefits of Wall Street profits… or the pitfalls… are not exclusive. They are enjoyed or feared by every citizen who is vested in some way, since it’s an open field for both the profits, and the losses. And all by choice, not mandate. How “un American”, eh?

Cary, I don’t “know” that you vote, but I would suspect you do. Even tho you disagree with my end of the political spectrum, I have less qualms about you casting an educated vote (sorta) that differs from mine than those that are so uneducated as to keep repeating political memes without any other knowledge. You do make the effort to travel to the opposing side for their views, and I do respect that.

However you didn’t respond to my queries in #65, asking you to explain this dichotomy of your beliefs and tolerance.

As far as Cary Grant.. you will get no argument from me. He has long been a top notch favorite of mine as a film talent. Possibly one of the most diverse talents of his time in both comedy and drama.

@liberalmann:
No, you are brainwashed idiot and wannabe tyrant to believe the OWS people are fighting for anyone else or for anything but their own greed and envy.

@MataHarley:

Thank you. The respect is mutual.

I had to think about your query, and I suppose the difference in my tolerance is separated by those who actively harm others for their own gain vs. those who active opposition to the former may inconvenience others, in the form of civil disobedience, for the benefit of the majority in the long term.

I particularly like North by Northwest, as I’m also a huge Hitchcock fan! Also loving this Walking Dead series – commercial break almost over!

Thanks for revisiting the question, Cary. So you don’t find anything amiss in your selective application of our laws, based on whether or not you support the base cause?

And as for as this being “for the benefit of the majority in the long term”, I think that the “long term” of both Social Security and Medicare, which would probably have fit your criteria, has proven to be anything *but* beneficial to the nation’s economy, and therefore to “the majority” of American citizens. So don’t you think you are being rather presumptive when you assume what the OWS can’t articulate, but what you assume they want to articulate, is beneficial?

i.e., a mob walked into a bank harassed tellers, and many say they want to destroy the major banks. Well, if the major banks go down, what competition is there for the masses, ergo the benefits? Why do you think that there are banking loans outside of just community banks? The majors could compete in loans/terms with the locals, making rates and loan packages more attractive and forcing the community banks down in the process. If there is no national entity, like Chase, BofA, Wells Fargo, etal, and only a local community bank, what competition will prevent them from imposing fees simply because you have no where else to go? This is some of their beefs, and why many wanted to withdraw. They hated the fees.

In the meantime, if someone doesn’t ‘want to deal with a national entity, they are free to simply deal with their local community bank. Problem solved. Choices abound.

But that’s not what they seek, is it? Because they don’t like a choice, they want to eliminate it for everyone.

Slogans sound good. Reality, however, is a bitch and a major inconvenience to such slogans.

Oh yes… my faves. Bringing Up Baby, His Girl Friday, Arsenic and Old Lace, My Favorite Wife, The Philadelphia Story and Gunga Din.

The State Capitol in Madison Wisconsin reported extensive damage to the great lawn leading to Lake Mendota plus marble stairs and interior areas damaged. If there is a site making contradictatory claims fine but if the reference is some union blog then added evidence would be necessary. The current Trumka – Hoffa nexus is completely unreliable.

@Hard Right, sort of a waste of precious air pointing out the obvious to the oblivious, don’t you think? Anyone that listens to the OWS demands that the government seize more cash from the top 1% to redistribute to others, and must prosecute Wall Street criminals… or if there are no laws to prosecute them on, create more… and still believes that doesn’t entail even more “government involvement” from the feds than we have now is simply clueless at all levels.

If it can’t figure out what the OWS is demanding, how would it understand the tea party rallies over out of control spending and too much government interference in the free market? It’s obvious the two couldn’t be more opposite in their demands to one who has more than a single brain cell active.

There are times when you can’t fix stupid… but I think you already know that.

Yes Mata, LM is a lost cause and a waste of time. However, it’s like punching those old inflatible punching bags. It can be fun. Really, to anyone with a brain it is quite clear what most of the OWS protestors are truly after.
Oh, and since the size of OWS crowds has come up:

Canadian scumbag photo-shops pic to “help” the OWS protests. If you read the comments on the site, someone claiming to be the person who PS’d the pic posts and exposes himself to be a foaming at the mouth leftist.
http://blog.timparkinson.net/2011/09/30/lies-damn-lies-and-photoshop/

Batman, it used to be that if someone had served in the military there was a high chance they were right leaning or Conservative.
With that said, I’ve met a few people who were outright leftists who had served. When asked they admit it was strictly for the benfits of paying for college. Your relative’s neighbor sounds just like one of those. I’ve also found people like him to have a , ” GIMMIE, GIMMIE, GIMMIE! I’ve got mine, f*ck everyone else!” mentality. Next time you see the jackass you should say that as you don’t have a boat, he should give you his since that is what he is actually advocating. That should be fun.

@Hard Right: Good one! I remember the Young Republican who asked all thelefties if they should give everyone the same grade by averaging everyone’s grade. They didn’t think it was fair!

@libtardmann: You said of the OWS mobs:

But minus the racist signs and firearms.

You’re kidding, right???

You do know how easy it is to disprove what you just said, right??
.
.

Cary, you have no idea how funny I think it is that you provide, as a sidebar mouthpiece for an inarticulate movement, one of those guys who was prosecuted by the SEC for securities fraud in 2003…. LOL (he “settled” by the way, to the tune of over $4 mil).

Since he was barred from the industry as part of his settlement, he found himself a somewhat unwilling and reticent financial “journalist” working for Slate. Since then he started the small biz rag, Business Insider. Sometimes they have good stuff. Sometimes it’s not fact checked either. However it ’tisn’t much of a surprise that he harbors some ill will, don’t you think? Then again, perhaps that’s why he’s the darling of the more left leaning media, such as MSNBC, Newsweek and the NYTs. But then there’s a few ostracized “journalists” who are part of that same circle… dishonorably discharged from the industry, and ending up as writers as a new career.

Aside from an amusing source, his idea of “inequity” between the top 1% and lower 99% is incorrect, as per the historic stats of Wolff that I have posted so many times here, I’m losing count. Probably the only thing that is different is that there are more zeros these days than in the 1920s. Nor does his “inequity” take in consideration all forms of wealth that Americans have. It’s not just income anymore… property and stock assets, pensions etc all have been adding to the below-1%-population for a few decades now. A large percentage of employees have pensions and 401Ks as perks, not take home weekly, that is matched by the employer. Then, of course, there’s the health insurance benefits that is also perks that is not take home weekly. Of course that perk will be going by the way side as the corporations bail out of group policies because the penalties are cheaper than paying the rising premiums that O’healthcare does nothing to curb. This hidden “pay” and income doesn’t get reflected on those pretty little charts everyone likes to use.

Unfortunately, some Americans do not know how to handle either their investments, or wealth…. whether it be the income or the perks They think of these assets as a never ending, wealth accruing critter that never sees declines or depreciation. Thus they spent overspent personally, much like our Congress does. This is not the fault of the market, capitalism or the system in general. It is the fault of the individual, perhaps due to ignorance of simple money management..

Henry then whines that corporate profits are at a record high. Well dang, Cary… considering that corporations are made up of share holders and those vested in the market, that means there are many who are benefiting from corporate profit. When you’ve got holdings in big oil or GE, and oil and GE do well, so does your stock portfolio. Get my drift? The good stuff is shared in corporations, apportioned to your investment…. but the losses are also shared.

But then this goes back to this strange belief that so many have that a “corporation” is just a faceless rich fat cat CEO like Soros, and not a publicly traded company that includes everyone from private investors to those that invest for mutuals, 401Ks and pensions. You know, like teachers, firemen, police, etal? When the stock market does well, so does the high percentile of average working joe blows. Why do you think it was so tragic when the crash under Obama’s first year occurred, wiping out so many savings of the middle class?

But I’ll agree with ol’ Henry on this:

And if America cannot figure out a way to address these gripes, the country will likely become increasingly “de-stabilized,” as sociologists might say. And in that scenario, the current protests will likely be only the beginning.

This is absolutely true. But then, social and economic destabilization is exactly what the leadership of this movement wants.

BTW, I really have to laugh that the first eight charts/pictures were all about unemployment…. so we are to believe these OWS types (including the Texas guy who QUIT his job to come protest) are so concerned about unemployment that they spend weeks camping out, never looking for a job, or not finishing up their college studies to finish their education and pay off their student loans? Sorry… don’t think “jobs” enters into the picture or they’d be attempting to get one, or at least attending school.

The OWS movement summed up in 1:32:

I guess you can determine the nature of a person or an organization by those who support them. Here are declared supporters of the OWS mob.
Nazis http://anp14.com/news/archives.php?report_date=2011-10-16
Communists

POTUS http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/052226f8-f80c-11e0-a419-00144feab49a.html

@MataHarley:

Yup – it’s all there for his readers to see and evaluate for themselves:

http://www.businessinsider.com/author/henry-blodget (note the hyperlinks)

The “non-monetary” things you equate as income for the bottom – the top have those things, too. So they would cancel each other out, wouldn’t they?

And are you saying that the average lower middle class/ poor family has enough to invest on a significant, substantial stock portfolio? Really?

I didn’t say that Henry didn’t disclose his outing of the industry. I just said I found it ironic you wanted to cite one of those fraudulent criminals as your source. And, of course, that he’s got a bone to pick with the industry for his dishonorable discharge, so to speak. So you want to rail against those evil Wall Street criminals, and then use their words for substance? Kinda funny, don’ you think?

And are you saying that the average lower middle class/ poor family has enough to invest on a significant, substantial stock portfolio? Really?

Cary, I realize in the business that you’re in… not working for a large or evil corporation… you’re unaware of the value of benefits over paycheck. They pay a hefty portion of group insurance, and they match funds that an employee contributes to his/her 401K. So if an employee sets aside $200-$300 out of a paycheck for his investment 401K portfolio, the employer adds as well. Between the employer contributions to both the 401K and healthcare costs, that’s a good amount of money that the worker receives, not counted as income, but is also not an expense if they did not have those employer perks. If I’m paid $3000 monthly in pay, and also receive $600 worth of health benefits and another $200 in matching 401K contributions by the employer, I’m actually earning $3800 monthly and potentially doubling my funds set aside for investments at the employer’s expense. This is why the “income” stats so often bandied about do not necessarily reflect what workers are being paid. Employers have been using these perks as employee incentives for almost three decades now.

As of 2009, more than 40% of all American non farm workers had 401Ks. This has been on the rise since the 80s, and really shot up thru the 90s and first decade of the 21st century. Company contributions to these average about 2.5% of their payroll expense.

This means there are far more average working Americans involved in Wall Street than you imagined, yes?

However now many economic talking heads are annoyed because a 401K, more and more a substitute or supplement to a pension plan, is subject to market volatility. Well cry me a river. The evil wealthy have investment portfolios and are subject to the same. It appears that the lower 99% want guarantees that are not offered to anyone. They want to participate when the market is up, but don’t want the repercussions when the market is down. Reality dictates there are no guarantees. Period. Not for the wealthy, who pay to play. And not for the smaller vested investor either.

And are you saying that employees should have even more to make up a “substantial stock portfolio”… as in they should get more benefits out than what they put in? Why is that, Cary? The benefits (or losses) are commensurate with their contributions. If they are lightly invested, they don’t make as much… but then they don’t lose as much when the market is down either. Goes with the territory. Even at that, with the employer contributions, they are – in essence – getting more benefits (or losses) than they are contributing out of their contracted agreed pay. So how much enough for you? Is the employer supposed to triple the employees contribution and then you’ll be happy? Or at least until the market has a downturn you would be…

@Cary: What do you think 401 K and other retirement plans are all about? What you lefties always fail to understand is that if you have a job, you are invested in a company (The company that hired you.) If you are just there for the money, you are a worthless employee!

I remember when UPS was mostly employee owned and they went on strike against themselves. This allowed Federal Express to gain on the ground deliveries. The United Pilots did something similar. Ignorance causes people to do some strange things.

@MataHarley:

Cary, I realize in the business that you’re in… not working for a large or evil corporation…

I thought you knew where I worked! I thought that I made it clear that being large and successful didn’t automatically equate “evil” or greedy. I simply want the money out of politics.

Well good luck in getting money out of politics, Cary…. dang, nice thought but somewhat utopian in reality. LOL Again, I think you will probably turn to the same tolerance level you have for civil disobedience and infringement on the rights of others, if you support the cause. ala, you won’t mind certain lobbyists in the beltway, like a union that benefits you personally.

BTW, I’ve mentioned several times now about how economic ignorance has contributed to the fiscal state of many now. In other words, they aren’t any smarter than Congress in managing money, and that this is not the fault of capitalism or the system. So let me circumvent a thought you may come to, erroneously, in advance.

The average savings rate of a household has been on the decline for decades. This is not a Bush thing… it’s simply an overlooked area of education in our schools that doesn’t teach basic math and economics as it applies to the real world. To give you an idea of how long this frivolous spending – not solely confined to Congress – has been a reality, the LA Times article I linked is from 17 years ago… July 1994.

The U.S. savings rate remains stuck below 4% of disposable income, according to Commerce Department statistics. The rate was more than 7% for three decades after World War II and 6% in the 1980s.

The oldest baby boomers, the roughly 30% of the population born between 1946 and 1964, are now 48–sigh–and yet they don’t seem to be saving heavily for retirement. Surveys by brokerage and investment firms say that many of the 77 million baby boomers underestimate how much money they will need for retirement.

The trend is not encouraging. Most of the 1,400 respondents to a Fidelity Investments poll said they found that trying to save 6% to 8% of pretax income was boring and difficult and that they would not do it.

This is in spite of widespread worries about old-age poverty, which are fed by dire warnings that corporate pensions can no longer be counted on and a common suspicion that Social Security will simply run out of money, condemning people now in their 30s to eventual penury.

Fears of the future hurt the present. America’s low savings rates is a big reason why Federal Reserve Board Chairman Alan Greenspan thinks the U.S. economy can’t grow without sparking high inflation. So fears about saving indirectly cause higher interest rates, which hobble the economy, making it harder to save. We’re in a vicious circle.

The problem with many in the OWS movement is that they do not know their history, and believe their beefs and behavior are unique. They are not. Nor do they even care to admit their own inadequacies that contribute to their self-perceived dire fiscal futures. The point is that if they’d go back to classes instead of cutting them to protest and whine, or get a job with one of those evil corporations that not only easily facilitate investments savings but even add more to it for them, they would find themselves in not such a bad position… providing they actually bothered to get some education on managing money. The savings rate can only be positive when one tucks aside some for a rainy day, and spends less than you earn.. not depending upon credit card debt. It’s really as simple as that. However attitudes of a consumer based nation, quite spoiled by new toys, technology and easy access to credit, have not contributed to personal responsibility and a forward vision for the future.

Again, this is not the fault of capitalism or the system. It is the flaw of generations, lacking some basic education in economics 101.

And one more thing about any unreal demands for guarantees in pensions or 401Ks. There are none. There are three choices…

1: A pension plans is puts the guarantee/onus on the health of the firm providing the guarantees
2: A government plan puts the guarantee/onus on the taxpayer
3: A 401K plan puts the gurantee/onus on the individual earner and their choices for investments

Since guarantees are not to be hand under any circumstances, would you rather place your faith in the future earnings on the expected stability of a single business? The taxes and taxpayers of that nation at large? Or in under your own control? Should be a no brainer. Risk is in all, but at least one you mitigate your own risk.

Some polling data on who is to blame appears to validate Herman Cain’s assertion that the OWS protestors should be in D.C. and not on Wall Street.

http://thehill.com/polls/187837-the-hill-poll-voters-say-dc-worse-than-wall-street

There are a couple of things that have always bothered me about the 401K retirement plan model.

The first is the very fact that 401K investments are tax deferred. Essentially you’re avoiding taxes on part of your earnings at a known rate now, by taking on an obligation to pay taxes on those earnings at an unknown rate later. The big selling point is that tax rates later will probably be lower. Really? I suspect tax rates are presently about as low as they’ll ever get. In fact, they’re presently so low that the current rates are totally unsustainable. The rapid rise of the national debt regardless of the party in power is evidence of that. As baby boomers retire, escalating Social Security and Medicare costs will put ever-increasing pressure on the government to raise taxes. The alternative to raising taxes is to reduce Social Security and Medicare costs, but that would only exacerbate the second problem:

The second also has to do with baby boomer demographics. As with most things, the value of stocks at any given point is affected by supply and demand. As baby boomers begin to retire in ever greater numbers, 401K holdings will begin to be converted to cash in ever greater numbers. It seems reasonable to assume that the increasing supply of shares up for sale will increasingly depress the value of the shares being sold. If reduced Social Security and Medicare benefits require people to draw more heavily on their 401K assets, that increases the supply of shares on the market and depresses their value even more quickly.

Fortunately, The End of the World as We Know It in 2012 will render all such concerns irrelevant. We’ll only have a killer asteroid, extraterrestrial invasion, catastrophic Earth changes, a killer flu pandemic, nuclear holocaust, or the Second Coming to worry about. If the December 22 date is correct, this will even save us all from the stresses of last-minute Christmas shopping. Unfortunately, we’ll still have to go through another election.

Now that’s funny, Greg. Armageddon would surely be the answer to all woes, rendering them moot. LOL

But again, there are no guarantees with any type of savings. Market volatility, taxes… doesn’t matter. Even if you stuff a mattress, the value of the dollar and inflation/costs of living is another unknown. There is simply no way to make guarantees that are fool proof. And that includes putting the onus on the taxpayers of the nation for gov’t backed programs. It only, as we have seen with both entitlement programs, sucks the US under.

Truly the only answer is discipline. Frugal management of the money, not putting yourself into debt for “stuff”, and not spending more than you earn. None of these are demonstrated by the majority of individuals, and definitely our central government is no poster child example either.

Greg has just written a new comment on “TEA Party versus OWS Mob”. Here an excerpt:

There were people on Wall Street who deliberately lied about the safety of the investment instruments they were selling, who systematically robbed small individual investors and private and public pension funds, who then extorted tax dollars to keep the damages they’d done from reducing the entire economic and monetary system to ruins, and who then paid themselves multi-million dollar bonuses from the proceeds. While this is all common knowledge, not one of the perpetrators has been investigated, let alone prosecuted. It’s also common knowledge that while the financial future of mainstream America has been circling the drain, corporate America has been pulling in record profits quarter after quarter, with their effective tax rates at record lows. (You can get much lower than an effective tax rate of zero.) Their capital holdings are at record highs. The solutions that are being offered are even lower high-end tax rates, even lower corporate tax rates, and even lower capital gains tax rates. For mainstream America, the offer comes down to lower wages, reduced benefits, gaping holes in the social safety net, and a roll-back of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, student aid, etc. You don’t think there’s any legitimate reason for angry citizens to be demonstrating on Wall Street? I honestly don’t understand why some of the early Tea Party activists didn’t show up there first.

Well, Well, Well. Comes to mind: Deliberate Lies: Jamie Gowelick, Fwankwin Waines, Kwiss Dodd, and the banking queen: Bawney Fwank. What about the Secwetawy of the Tweasuwy: Turbo-Tax-Cheat Geithner? Why isn’t anybody pushing the attorney general Holder to investigate these mis-deeds, instead of running guns to the drug cartels? Who shoveled the millions of dollars at banks to big to fail? AIG Contributed $630,000 to his “O”ness. They gave him another $101K bonus. How about Goldman Sachs giving $4.5M to the Democrats in the 2008 cycle? Obama, and the entire Democrat party, might have been history’s biggest beneficiary of Wall Street in all of history. BTW, George Soros and all of his shells. When you look up Hedge Fund History: Who’s name do you think comes up first? Georgie boy is the poster child. Why wouldn’t any of this OWS angst be aimed at him? Where did George make all his money? He didn’t get it changing oil, sharpening saw blades, or selling rags on the street. Take Obama’s head of Council on Jobs and Competiveness: Government Electric’s CEO Jeffrey Immelt. Talk about crony socialism: General Electric’s 2010 tax return was: $0. G.E. has piece-by-piece, sytematically off-shored almost the entire company. And, the very invention that made G.E. what it was: The tungsten filament light bulb: Was essentially banned by an out of control Democrat congress. That’s OK, Geoffrey closed that plant.

Why aren’t you liberal protesting in Washington, DC? Perhaps, Georgie boy put out bids for bodiess on Craig’s list or something? Maybe paying as much as $350-650 per week. Well, because you are just TOOLS. Useful Idiots. I believe I know why the OWS crowd won’t focus any of its attention on the administration in Washington, DC. Because, all of this stuff is carefully being organized for the purpose of deflecting all of the angst away from it’s source, in Washington, DC !

@Hard Right #82.

it used to be that if someone had served in the military there was a high chance they were right leaning or Conservative………I’ve met a few people who were outright leftists who had served. .

I’ve noticed the same thing. And, the common denominator in all cases I’ve experienced are union membership. My brother-in-law, my son-in-law, and also this neighbor of my nephew. My brother in-law is really a nice guy, and he’s a voracious reader. He does think. But, the problem is: What is read. Their sources of information. The thought processes that were instilled by an educational system with an agenda. I think it was well summed up by the great Ronaldus Magnus:

Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn’t so.

The primary difference between the Tea Party and the OWS Movement is that the former was an arm of the already existing reactionary Republican Party, similar to the John Birch Society–notice how many Republicans were able to pile on the band wagon immediately, without hesitation. The difference between Democrats whole-heartedly supporting such a movement is that so many of them, like their Republican counterparts, take money from Wall Street, so most can’t be seen to be pro-OWS—until the money becomes a lesser issue.

The best explanation of modern-day conservatism is that in an attempt to put so much distance between themselves and G.W. Bush, that they’ve run so far to the right, they’ve put themselves in a corner, and have nowhere else to run, except towards authoritarianism.

After Obama wins this election, because of the paucity of the Republican Party, sensible Republicans, who are waiting in the wings, will move to the Left again. I hope you’all can weather the change.

P.S. The anti-war demonstrators were not responsible for the withdrawal of force from a war that we were winning. If we were winning that war, the American public would have supported that war—regardless of the protests. To think otherwise is just a product of the conservative victimization complex that they get from religion.

@Liberal1 (objectivity):

The primary difference between the Tea Party and the OWS Movement is that the former was an arm of the already existing reactionary Republican Party, similar to the John Birch Society

Damn. You’re such a moron. You clearly know nothing about the TEA Party movement or the John Birch Society. The Birch society was a dark paranoid fringe organization that encouraged its members to keep dossiers on their neighbors. The TEA Party was simply open transparent public participation in politics; the continuing and deliberate misrepresenation of this by leftoids such as yourself is as creepy and paranoid as anything the Birch society ever did.

@Liberal1 (objectivity): You said:

The best explanation of modern-day conservatism is that in an attempt to put so much distance between themselves and G.W. Bush, that they’ve run so far to the right, they’ve put themselves in a corner, and have nowhere else to run, except towards authoritarianism.

Since the Tea Party is in favor of stricter adherence to the Constitution, fiscal responsibility – particularly the government NOT spending more than they take in, and personal liberty; how is it that you think this is “far right?”

How is it that you see this as only heading towards authoritarianism?

You really ought to know what you are talking about before you open mouth and insert foot.

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