9 Aug

It Was A Trap [Reader Post]

                                       

I can’t shake the feeling that it was a trap. A set-up. An ambush.

And that Obama bought it. And Joe Biden made it all possible.

There was no end to self-adulation of Barack Obama following the raid in which Osama Bin Laden was killed. In the revelry, the brainiac that is the Vice President opened his mouth and identified those who carried out the Bin Laden raid.

He can tell you more about and understands the incredible, the phenomenal, the just almost unbelievable capacity of his Navy SEALs and what they did last Sunday.

Following the Biden outing, SecDef Gates made clear that increased security was necessary to protect the SEALS and their families. He also noted that the Obama administration could not shut the hell up.

Frankly, a week ago Sunday, in the Situation Room, we all agreed that we would not release any operational details from the effort to take out bin Laden. That all fell apart on Monday, the next day.”

Gates turned out to be prophetic:

“There is an awareness that the threat of retaliation is increased because of the attacks – because of the action against bin Laden,” he said.

Obama then let everyone know where the SEAL Team was.

(Reuters) – President Barack Obama, basking in U.S. public approval for the killing of Osama bin Laden, flew to a military base in Kentucky on Friday to thank special forces who carried out the deadly raid and led a rally filled with cheering troops.

By the end of May, the Taliban was promising revenge.

Nicholas Schmidle wrote a highly detailed play by play of the raid. He’ll probably get a Pulitzer Prize for it. He also helped the Taliban devise a trap.

“One option entailed flying helicopters to a spot outside Abbottabad and letting the team sneak into the city on foot. The risk of detection was high, however, and the SEALS would be tired by a long run to the compound. The planners had contemplated tunneling in — or at least, the possibility that bin Laden might tunnel out…Eventually, the planners agreed that it made the most sense to fly directly into the compound. ‘Special operations is about doing what’s not expected, and probably the least expected thing here was that a helicopter would come in, drop guys on the roof, and land in the yard,’ the special operations officer said.”

“Forty-five minutes after the Black Hawks departed, four MH-47 Chinooks launched from the same runway in Jalalabad. Two of them flew to the border, staying on the Afghan side; the other two proceeded into Pakistan. Deploying four Chinooks was a last-minute decision made after President Barack Obama said he wanted to feel assured that the Americans could “fight their way out of Pakistan.” Twenty-five additional SEALs from DEVGRU, pulled from a squadron stationed in Afghanistan, sat in the Chinooks that remained at the border; this “quick-reaction force” would be called into action only if the mission went seriously wrong. The third and fourth Chinooks were each outfitted with a pair of M134 Miniguns. They followed the Black Hawks’ initial flight path but landed at a predetermined point on a dry riverbed in a wide, unpopulated valley in northwest Pakistan. The nearest house was half a mile away. On the ground, the copters’ rotors were kept whirring while operatives monitored the surrounding hills for encroaching Pakistani helicopters or fighter jets. One of the Chinooks was carrying fuel bladders, in case the other aircraft needed to refill their tanks.

In the detailed description, there is more prophecy

One month before the 2008 Presidential election, Obama, then a senator from Illinois, squared off in a debate against John McCain in an arena at Belmont University, in Nashville. A woman in the audience asked Obama if he would be willing to pursue Al Qaeda leaders inside Pakistan, even if that meant invading an ally nation. He replied, “If we have Osama bin Laden in our sights and the Pakistani government is unable, or unwilling, to take them out, then I think that we have to act and we will take them out. We will kill bin Laden. We will crush Al Qaeda. That has to be our biggest national-security priority.” McCain, who often criticized Obama for his naïveté on foreign-policy matters, characterized the promise as foolish, saying, “I’m not going to telegraph my punches.”

Obama did. So did Biden. And so did Schmidle.

They offered the Taliban an outline of how high value target raids are conducted. And it was another high value target they were after.

KABUL—U.S. Special Operations troops were closing in on a clandestine Taliban meeting thought to include a high-value commander in Afghanistan’s rugged Tangi Valley when they ran into an insurgent patrol that pinned them down.

Rangers just happened to “run into” an insurgent patrol that just happened to be there in a position to pin them down??

Bin Laden’s remains were necessary to provide DNA evidence of his death. The alleged “target(s)” of this disastrous raid must also have been very high value as the raid bears a striking similarity to the Bin Laden raid. This time they knew the SEALS were coming and they were prepared for them.

Bin Laden was located from threads of intelligence gathered over four years, and it all derived from a phone call.

So now thanks to the eager press the Taliban knew how Bin Laden was found, they knew who participated in the raid and they knew how it went down. All they needed to do was set bait that someone at the top could not refuse.

The Taliban could leak information about a high value target- it had to be someone high on the food chain, someone else whose DNA would be be required for a positive ID- someone like Ayman Al-Zawahiri. Then they could pin down the first team looking for the high value target and hold out for reinforcements. And they came. The Taliban KNEW SEAL Team 6 comes after high value targets and could well be involved. They KNEW the equipment that would be used. They KNEW pretty much how it would be done. They KNEW how to furnish the fake intel.

It all fits. I believe the Taliban got its revenge by playing the game and I cannot help but wonder who made the decision to send in Special Ops and then the SEALs instead of using a drone. That decision probably came from the top. Perhaps someone was looking for another trophy- someone who needs a boost at the polls.

We still don’t know who got Khalid Sheik Muhammad.

I wrote this well before the following appeared.

UPDATE: Yes, it was a trap.

The Taliban lured US forces into an elaborate trap to shoot down their helicopter, killing 30 American troops in the deadliest such incident of the war, an Afghan official said Monday.

About DrJohn

DrJohn has been a health care professional for more than 30 years. In addition to clinical practice he has done extensive research and has published widely with over 70 original articles and abstracts in the peer-reviewed literature. DrJohn is well known in his field and has lectured on every continent except for Antarctica. He has been married to the same wonderful lady for over 30 years and has three kids- two sons, both of whom are attorneys and one daughter on her way into the field of education. DrJohn was brought up with the concept that one can do well if one is prepared to work hard but nothing in life is guaranteed. Except for liberals being foolish.
This entry was posted in Anti-military, Barack Obama, Joe Biden, John McCain, Media, Military, Military Families, Politics and tagged , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. Tuesday, August 9th, 2011 at 6:56 am
| 1,804 views

98 Responses to It Was A Trap [Reader Post]

  1. DrJohn says: 51

    @Nan G:

    One day we are going to find out who ordered all those SEALs into that NG CH47 for that mission.

    Indeed. There are many questions to be answered.

    ReplyReply
  2. DrJohn says: 52

    @Nan G:

    SEALs usually operate in small teams.
    The SEALs usual transport is the MH-47E/G .

    Yes and yes, Nan.

    This whole thing still stinks. This terrible incident instantly brought back to me the downing of the Chinook in 2005 with 8 SEALs on board- also a rescue mission.

    I want to know what this mission was and who ordered it. Someone bought into phony intel.

    ReplyReply
  3. batman says: 53

    @Nan G: Indeed, this constitutes a high crime. There needs to be a congressional investigation into this. I think we need to write our congress-critters….

    ReplyReply
  4. Nan G says: 54

    @Wordsmith:
    You commented to me and I answered here:
    @Nan G:
    I wrongly addressed my answer to Mata H.
    OOPS!
    I think President Bush would have quickly ”pivoted” (to borrow a word from the Obama Admin) from any policy he saw inching up the numbers of our troops injured or dead.
    I think he would not have ever given the enemy a date-certain for when we might leave.
    That was the kind of military strategic blunder Bush would not have committed.
    So, no, I disagree with you, respectfully.

    ReplyReply
  5. another vet says: 55

    Here are some additional details as well as input from Special Ops types. Having been in both situations where I’ve been on the recveiving end of a QRF and having been on a QRF, there are times when they are put together rather hastily with little preparation for what is going to happen on the other end because details are sketchy at the location of where the trouble is at. Therefore the QRF is often going blind so to speak. I would caution all to avoid jumping to too many conclusions before all the facts are out.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/aug/9/commandos-criticize-call-for-seals/

    ReplyReply
  6. Toothfairy says: 56

    Revenge, as they say, is a dish best served cold. Blackfive has some details about the mop-up operation:

    http://www.blackfive.net/main/2011/08/a-dish-served-cold.html

    ReplyReply
  7. Aqua says: 57

    @ jerseyflash

    Tom Clancy’s Clear and Present Danger.

    We don’t drop bombs on compounds any longer. Some “innocent” civilian might get hurt.

    ReplyReply
  8. Nan G says: 58

    @another vet:
    Another vet,
    That was an excellent article.
    On the side of it was the link to another one, from Charles Hurt.
    Fallen off Olympus, Obama stammers
    He sees the Obama I see.
    And his conclusion is the same as mine would have been, had I thought of it…..

    You have global chaos, market terror and brave Americans who died in a far-off land fighting for American freedom. If ever there was a moment for magic and inspiring oratory, it would be now.

    These are the moments great men live for and for which great speeches are made. Just imagine what the Barack Obama of 2008 would have done with such a moment.

    What speech would a J F Kennedy have crafted in times like these?

    ReplyReply
  9. Aqua says: 59

    First, my thoughts and prayers go out to the families of our brave warriors.

    Second…sorry Dr. J, but special forces teams are generally give wide lattitude on mission parameters. I’m sure the fact that fellow warriors were pinned down played an important role in how the SeALs planned the insertion, but do not doubt that the SeALs played a major role in the planning. The SeALs also know the vulnerability of the Chinook. They lost 8 team members trying to rescue SeAL team 10 (Marcus Luttrell’s team) in 2005. The SeALs aren’t to blame, the Rangers who got pinned down aren’t to blame, the Taliban are to be blamed. Now we should drop a Fuel-Air-Bomb in that area every day for a month.

    ReplyReply
  10. another vet says: 60

    @Toothfairy: Great news. At least they got theirs although it still won’t bring back ours.

    ReplyReply
  11. another vet says: 61

    @Nan G: A good observation. Obama has lost it. He may get it back, but he has no past leadership experience he can turn to. When the chips were down for JFK he could turn back to his days as a PT boat commander for inspiration. Look at the setbacks he suffered- the Bay of Pigs and the Berlin Wall, but he still showed leadership during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

    ReplyReply
  12. drjohn says: 62

    @Aqua:

    Second, sorry Dr. J, but special forces teams are generally give wide lattitude on mission parameters. I’m sure the fact that fellow warriors were pinned down played an important role in how the SeALs planned the insertion, but do not doubt that the SeALs played a major role in the planning. The SeALs also know the vulnerability of the Chinook. They lost 8 team members trying to rescue SeAL team 10 (Marcus Luttrell’s team) in 2005. The SeALs aren’t to blame, the Rangers who got pinned down aren’t to blame, the Taliban are to be blamed. Now we should drop a Fuel-Air-Bomb in that area every day for a month.

    In no way do I place any blame on those men. I place it all on whomever ordered the mission.

    I have read that it was a capture mission. I don’t know for sure.

    I agree about the fuel-air bomb. That should have been choice #1.

    ReplyReply
  13. Aqua, hi,
    we should drop bombs on compounds that countain ennemies,
    even if innocent so called are among them,
    this is a war that should be taken for real, not as a video game the high command play with,
    I was reading the special ops are working now in 75 countries of the world,
    and are filling the gap as a small number to be fighting as a whole military force would
    need to do it,
    they are experts but human and they cannot push them to exaustion and demand what the 100000 army can do.
    the bombs would have killed the ennemies and the innocents so call that mingle with them and are usefull in helping the ennemies.
    in the balance on this side the warriors are the innocents to protect the most and
    close to 200000 innocent AMERICANS LIVES IN THAT WAR EVEN IF YOU COUNT IT WITH IRAK
    is astronomical number and should be delt with very responsably ,
    those lives are mostly of AMERICANS ROOTED IN THIS NATION ,THEY HAVE DISAPEARED
    FROM AMERICA’S GROUND,
    THEY HAVE BEEN REPLACED BY NOT SO PATRIOTIC CROWD FROM COUNTRY KNOWN TO HAVE BRED THE HATERS OF AMERICA,
    SO WHERE IS THE BALANCE LOGIC.
    THEY SEND OUR PATRIOTS TO SUSTAIN ENNEMIES ‘S FIRED AND SOME 2000000 DIED
    AND REPLACE BY 2000000 HATERS NON AMERICANS AND HELPING TO DESTROY AMERICA,
    BY GETTING IN GOVERNMENT TOP JOBS AND OR CLIMING THE STAIRS TO IT.
    WHILE THE UN ORGANISATION ARE HELPING TO INSTALL THE WORLD POWER IN
    THIS COUNTRY SO EVER SUBTLE IS THEIR WAY. LOOK AT THE REVOLTS OF THOSE NATIONS HAVING THE SAME NEFARIOUS GOAL
    YES OBAMA SAID HE WOULD CHANGE AMERICA FOREVER!!!
    A WAY TO KILL AN OLD TREE IS CUTTING THE ROOTS
    AND THE NEW ROOTS IS EAZY TO CUT

    ReplyReply
  14. drjohn, of course you’re right to agree on the bombs, I DO TOO,
    BUT IN THAT SITUATION THERE UNCERTAINTY OF THE ONE WHO MIGHT BE FIGHTING
    THE ENNEMIES INSIDE THE COMPOUND SINCE THE SEALS did not have all the info
    if all they’re comming to help are not in the compound,
    and if they get the info the bomb is the best no1,
    sorry for the OBAMA TROPHY, HE JUST HAVE TO GET IT HIMSELF WITH RAMUNSEM
    THE FORCES ,THE SEALS ARE NOT PLAYING THE SHOW : MISSION IMPOSSIBLE .
    THEY ARE ALREADY DOING FOR REAL THEIR IMPOSSIBLE MISSIONS,
    WHY DEMAND MORE ABSOLUTE ON THEM THE COMMAND ARE TO TAKE SOME SET BACK AND ANALYSE THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF INTENT IN HIS DEMAND, BEFORE DECIDING
    WHO IS TO BE PROTECTED, WHO IS OF MORE VALUE THAN A TALIBAN COMMANDER.
    NOT WORTHY OF ONE OF OUR MILITARY’S LIFE,
    THEY BETTER START THINKING THE RIGHT WAY,
    OUR TROOPS ARE VERY VALUABLE THEY ARE THE TREASURES OF AMERICA
    DON’T Y’ALL IN COMMAND FORGET IT
    YOU HAVE A LIFE, WHILE THEY ARE IN HELL

    ReplyReply
  15. Aqua says: 66

    @ ilovebeeswarzone

    You are preaching to the choir Ms. Bees. I would drop bombs daily.

    ReplyReply
  16. Aqua says: 67

    @ Hard Right

    Yeah, I just got through reading that too. Plus it seems a couple of F-16 have dispatched those responsible. http://nation.foxnews.com/navy-seals/2011/08/10/us-military-says-taliban-who-shot-down-helicopter-have-been-killed

    ReplyReply
  17. Aqua says: 68

    @ drjohn

    In no way do I place any blame on those men. I place it all on whomever ordered the mission.

    Sorry, didn’t mean to imply that you did. My point is that special operators do not typically jump into an aircraft and go where they are told the way ordinary troops do. If the SeAL team leader said, “hey, putting all my guys into one aircraft is not going to happen,” it would not have happened. I’m not blaming the SeAL team leader, I wasn’t there. But I can’t blame the person that ordered the mission either. Like Mata said earlier, it’s war. Sh*t happens. Personally, I’d like to see that sh*t happen to someone else. I read that the IRT was being tasked with blocking the escape of what they called “squirters.” I would much rather have seen a drone take them out. This administration is not capturing high value targets, so blowing them up was a viable alternative.

    ReplyReply
  18. drjohn says: 69

    @Aqua: That’s the point I have been making. Why was this not a drone? Why a capture all of a sudden? What was so valuable?

    ReplyReply
  19. Hard Right, thank you for the important link.
    they will still find other clue missing,
    that’s why we need to know all of the news stories coming up.
    bye

    ReplyReply
  20. jerseyflash says: 71

    Did anyone read my post # 38 IF YOU DID NOT, PLEASE GO BACK AND SPEND A MINUTE**I know that Aqua did. Seems as though everyone now wants to make a parking lot out of the place. Aqua #56 you say DO NOT BOMB THE COMPOUND because of “innocent” civilians, the ones that had a fire fight with the Benny Raiders for 45 minutes (Those civilians ????) Aqua #58 &65 Now it’s OK “DROP THE BOMB”**Another Vet #59 5 days later they BOMB the bad guys trying to leave the country????? Would anybody out there expect anything less from Barry. Telling America
    “We got Revenge” Didn’t the bad guy’s say the same thing about getting there REVENGE. They killed 30 plus the dog and it took one RPG to take that flying bus out of the sky. (SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH BARRY’S BS !!!) I want EVERYONE that has a love for this country and for the people that put themselfs in harms-way EVERYDAY to think about this***There is a CREED in the SEAL community “If you knew or found out that I did it, then I have failed my mission” Barry wants them to make a MOVIE about how much GUTS he had in sending the elite into harms-way, Barry wants a photo op at Fort Campbell** Navy on a Army base ??? The Benny operation should have stayed “CLASSIFIED” (SPECIAL OP’S TOOK OUT BENNY-DUMP HIS ASS IN THE OCEAN) Gates/Biden should have kept there mouths shut and Barry should “GO”

    ReplyReply
  21. jerseyflash, hi,
    yes ,I did read the first comment, and did not understand some of it,
    but I do well in this one, and I say you got it right,
    and I agree with it
    bye

    ReplyReply
  22. Aqua says: 73

    @ jerseyflash

    Aqua #56 you say DO NOT BOMB THE COMPOUND because of “innocent” civilians, the ones that had a fire fight with the Benny Raiders for 45 minutes (Those civilians ????)

    I was being sarcastic.

    ReplyReply
  23. Buffalobob says: 74

    This can be argued back and forth, cut and paste. I’ll wait for the official movie of the events to tell me the truth, especially if Stone is the director.////////////

    ReplyReply
  24. jerseyflash says: 75

    I’m having flash-backs ILOVEBEEWARZONE***back to May 3rd when your last response #69 thanked me for my service but though I was losing it and should have stayed cool. Old Trooper 2 is a Full Bird Colonel and I think and though that he was talking out of class. I only become a quick-temper when I encounter a phony. ENOUGH SAID on that matter. Thanks again and thanks in beleiving in what I think should have been done and for you AQUA #72, I forgive !!!! Right now I think there are 20 plus different stories being scrambled around in the DOD about this SUPER SCREW-UP

    ReplyReply
  25. JERSEYFLASH, HI,
    I think we have to talk some more about MAY 3RD ON 69
    WHAT POST WAS IT? I am very interested to read it again,
    because OLD TROOPER 2, has shown civility in his very knowledgeble comments ,
    and shown also to put the out of term commenters in their place firmly, if they where attacking any of us arrogantly,
    he also is our hero for his achievement to fight to protect AMERICA AND THE FREEDOM FOR ALL THE GOOD PEOPLE. WE LOVE HIM VERY MUCH.
    so I will expect you to give me the name of the post so I can read of what you mentioned,
    and we will be able to talk some more about it
    bye, take care, are you in AFGHANISTAN PRESENTLY?

    ReplyReply
  26. gregory_dittman says: 77

    I really doubt the story of the F-16 killing the guys responsible. Some guys might have died, but the forces were already fooled once by a fake Taliban meeting. They were probably fooled again since we know they can’t tell a real meeting from a fake meeting. To add less credibility, at least one story pointed out the guy that shot the RPG was killed as if they knew who fired the shot or set up the fake meeting.

    ReplyReply
  27. Wordsmith says: 78

    @openid.aol.com/runnswim #44:

    @word (#33)

    bin Laden and al Qaeda most suredly did get “the email”, as Iraq became a graveyard for al Qaeda.
    Zawahiri stated the importance of winning Iraq and making it the new super Caliphate.

    This has become the classic post-hoc rationalization of Iraq. Well, this plus the concept that Saddam had WMD after all, as evidenced by some ordnance left over from the Iraq/Iran War.

    The wmd stockpiles we believed existed turned out not to be the case; but Saddam was as much to blame on this as faulty, outdated CIA intelligence. As President Bush stated in a 2002 speech:

    With respect to how close Iraq is to developing a nuclear weapon, Bush notes that “we don’t know exactly, and that’s the problem.”

    Saddam never came clean and aside from yourself, many people (including some who opposed OIF) believed Saddam was hiding things he should not have. Saddam never abandoned his love for wmd and postwar findings seem to indicate that he maintained the capabilities as well as the desire to reconstitute wmd production once sanctions were lifted. And Saddam (as has been pointed out to you numerous times) was steep deep in doing business with terrorists, both secular AND yes, despite what opponents of the War have claimed, religious; and exported as well as domestic terrorism.

    Given Saddam’s history, his statements (he never ceased believing he wasn’t in a state of war with the U.S.), his 12 yrs of defiance against 16+1 UN Resolutions, his own self-admitted perpetuation of the belief that he possessed wmd (to protect himself against Iran) as well as his own professed desire to acquire such weapons….is it really so far-fetched to think that Saddam might decide to use terrorists as proxy to deliver a wmd attack against the U.S. and U.S. interests? There were legitimate concerns and reasons to include him in the GWoT.

    I never liked the idea of taking over someone else’s country and turning it into a mousetrap for outside enemies of the USA, from other countries, without the consent of said mousetrap’s citizens.

    I share some of your misgivings on this as well. Yes, it is better to “fight them over there, than here”; but it is a grave thing to not exercise compassion and responsibility for the locals when you’re essentially telling them that you’re using their country- their home- as a battlefield, where many of the casualties will be their life and property.

    However, we weren’t inviting al Qaeda in to fuel an insurgency. We were trying to remove a state-sponsor of terrorism from off the figurative field of battle.

    But as Lawrence Wright said, I believe on a radio interview, Iraq became not the U.S.’s Vietnam but al Qaeda’s Vietnam. And as Mata and I have written, they exposed themselves to the Islamic world as monsters and butchers of more Muslims than we have killed. They delegitimized global jihadism in the eyes of even some hardline fundamentalists who decided violent jihad wasn’t working as far as spreading Islam. Zawahiri and bin Laden themselves recognized they were losing the hearts and minds of Muslims but had no control over Zarqawi when they told him to “tone it down” with the Muslim on Muslim violence.

    @Nan G #53:

    I think President Bush would have quickly ”pivoted” (to borrow a word from the Obama Admin) from any policy he saw inching up the numbers of our troops injured or dead.

    Are you so sure? He double-downed on Iraq and called for a troop surge- sure to put more of our soldiers in harm’s way. Before he left office, he called for a troop increase in Afghanistan, as well. And as Greg notes in comment #29, more U.S. soldiers have died in Iraq under Bush’s watch. How long did it take for Bush to “pivot” before getting things “right”?

    I think he would not have ever given the enemy a date-certain for when we might leave.

    I agree.

    @drjohn #68:

    That’s the point I have been making. Why was this not a drone? Why a capture all of a sudden? What was so valuable?

    It’s not like drones are all we’ve been using. And if you recall, some on our side of the political aisle have criticized President Obama of killing over capturing HVTs, negating any chance of obtaining intell through interrogations (enhanced or otherwise).

    I just can’t help but wonder if the desire to pin the blame on President Obama for these deaths isn’t driven by partisan political opportunism; especially given how little we are privy to on the facts surrounding the mission and who made all the big decisions.

    ReplyReply
  28. Wordsmith, don’t forget that he is the COMMANDER IN CHIEF,
    THEREFOR HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS ATROCIOUS WAR,
    BYE

    ReplyReply
  29. Wordsmith says: 80

    Sounds like what anti-war libs were saying during the Bush years….

    ReplyReply
  30. Wordsmith ,this is not a real war as we know,
    this is a killing field for the AMERICAN YOUNG PEOPLE ,IN THE MILITARY TO PROTECT AMERICA,
    NOT OTHER COUNTRYS WHO CANNOT ACCEPT THEM AND HELP THE ENNEMIES to kill the only one who try to help them, it’s called hell,instead of WAR,
    Almost 2000000 of mostly rooted AMERICANS DEATHs the one WHICH AMERICA DEPEND ON TO
    CARRY THE FLAG OF FREEDOM IN AMERICA,
    THEY ARE BEING REPLACE BY MANY HATER OF THEIR BELOVED AMERICAcoming from open border,
    TRANSFORMING AMERICA INTO A MULTIPLE DIVIDE
    JUST LIKE A MULTIPLE EARTHQUAKE LEAVING DEEP OPEN GAPS ALL OVER AMERICA

    ReplyReply
  31. Nan G says: 82

    Funny how things can change overnight.
    Here’s some details from the top commander in Afghanistan, U.S. Marine Corps Gen. John R. Allen.

    The doomed Navy SEALs mission that claimed 30 American lives was intended to stop fleeing Taliban fighters and not necessarily a rescue mission as first reported.

    The mission was to stop Taliban fighters from fleeing in the Wardak province’s Tangi Valley.

    “As this mission unfolded, we saw some significant success occurring on the objective itself, but there were elements that were escaping,” Gen. Allen said.

    “And in the course of their attempt to depart the objective, we committed a force to contain that element from getting out. And of course, in the process of that, the aircraft was struck by an RPG and crashed.”

    So, instead being pinned down, as NATO officials first said, the Ranger unit was winning the fight and wanted more troops to stop the enemy retreat.

    ReplyReply
  32. rich wheeler says: 83

    Word Ms Bees like a few others on here is a pure Obama hater.It’s true she sounds like the Bush bashers of years past.Rather she should get behind the CIC in time of war.On the 19th I’ll be cooking at a sendoff BBQ for 2/4. These Marines need our full support.No political B.S.

    Semper Fi

    ReplyReply
  33. another vet says: 84

    @rich wheeler: I agree, we should stand behind the troops in time of war with no political B.S. That means you did not support Kerry or Obama, neither of whom stood behind Bush and in Kerry’s case, actually demeaned the troops as well just like he did to you guys who served in VN.

    ReplyReply
  34. drjohn says: 85

    @Nan G:

    The doomed Navy SEALs mission that claimed 30 American lives was intended to stop fleeing Taliban fighters and not necessarily a rescue mission as first reported.

    I dunno. If an an F-16 could be used to kill the fleeing Taliban, including the one who allegedly fired the shot that brought down the Chinook, why did they need 20 plus SEALs? Why didn’t they just summon the F-16 in the first place?

    Not adding up for me.

    ReplyReply
  35. rich wheeler says: 86

    Another Vet I stand behind the CIC and the troops during the prosecution of any war.As I’ve mentioned before, my main reason for being a Dem. centers on social issues,civil and human rights and protection of our very precious enviromnment. In these areas I feel Dems. lead strongly.

    ReplyReply
  36. rich wheeler, you’re deduction is what I expect from you, as sneaking in as usual and making a statement like this to Wordsmith.
    I have not been antiwar and I don’t belong in any organisation of that sort,
    I was stating the false war that is being stage and how it was being lead in AFGHANISTAN,
    WHICH I happen to follow and I PROTECT THE TROOPS ,AS WELL AS SUPPORTING THEM
    that’s not counting other UN strategy that imply the USE OF AMERICANS POWER, TO SERVE THE
    PURPOSE OF THEIR MEMBERS INTENT,WHICH I perceive is a deviation and corrupt way for achieving their end intent ,
    that is my view, and my belief,
    I don’t need you to expand it as you do wrongly.
    and extend the same hate card that your party follow
    on AMERICANS

    ReplyReply
  37. rich wheeler says: 88

    Ms Bees In time of war, and make no mistake we are at war in Afghanistan,the American Soldier and by extension the American Citizen should support the CIC as long as he is in command.
    Maybe it’s different in Canada.

    ReplyReply
  38. openid.aol.com/runnswim says: 89

    @rich: I don’t know the answer to the question I am about to pose. I don’t want you or anyone else to take this as a criticism of anyone, but it’s a complicated issue.

    What does “supporting the CIC in wartime” really mean?

    We could be talking about an average Joe (or average Fritz), living in Germany, when Hitler invaded Poland, putting German troops in harm’s way. What about an average Mustafa, in present day Libya? Should the average Chankrisna have supported Pol Pot?

    These are extreme situations; so the above are obviously rhetorical questions. But it’s not a black and white world, in peace or in war.

    Is it possible to question anything at all about the conduct of war, beginning with the declaration of war, itself, and moving on to the persistent continuation of war over time and/or to the objectives and/or to the strategy and/or tactics being employed to achieve those objectives?

    What are the limits of permissible criticism, if a private citizen deeply disagrees with a CIC’s actions, relating to war? What about an undeclared war — where Congress has abdicated its Constitutional responsibility? Maybe that’s why the framers of the Constitution wanted it to be Congress which declared war. If there was not sufficient consensus to allow for a formal war declaration, then, perhaps, the war in question shouldn’t be fought.

    Without a formal declaration of war, we repeatedly have run into situations where the President unilaterally takes the country to war. Congressional “resolutions” (e.g. Gulf of Tonkin resolution; Iraq Resolution of Dec 2002), are not formal war declarations. These resolutions received bipartisan support, because, in part, it was argued that the resolutions were needed to give the President sufficient authority so that he could obtain concessions from the enemy, short of actually going to war, through the credible threat of military force.

    My own personal opinion is that the bar for taking America to war is now much too low. The President just does it, and, once done, he’s effectively beyond criticism, if one subscribes to the notion that the CIC can’t be criticized in war time. It’s sort of a Catch-22.

    - Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA

    ReplyReply
  39. rich wheeler says: 90

    Larry I would agree with you the bar is set too low.I would also agree Congressional Declaration is the proper path.War should be a last resort.It ain’t like the John Wayne movies.However, once the line is crossed and our young Soldiers are in harm’s way we should support all from the buck pvt. to Petraeus to the Commander In Chief. This in no way means he can’t be criticised in any and all other matters.
    Obviously this is just one Marine’s opinion. Thanks I ENJOY your thoughtful posts very much.PLS look me up if you get down here to San Clemente.

    ReplyReply
  40. Smorgasbord says: 91

    I’m going to take two guesses:

    (1) Obama seacretly celebrated the downing of the helicopter with his Muslim buddies, or wanted to but couldn’t.
    (2) There will be a mosque put up at the crash sight.

    ReplyReply
  41. Nan G says: 92

    @drjohn: You make a valid point.
    But I wonder if actuaries are starting to force tactical decisions in this war.
    Obama hates spending money on it, we know that.
    Seems, while it is unspoken, if you look at the financial bottom line, you can figure out which action will be taken over the other possibilities.
    Actuaries are an anathema to good military decisions.

    ReplyReply
  42. another vet says: 93

    @rich wheeler: I’m in agreement with most if not all of what you said. So far, at least in recent history, there have only been three times were the President has not even bothered to get Congressional approval prior to committing U.S. forces to combat- Truman with Korea, Clinton with Kosovo, and Obama with Libya so for the most part, our Presidents have at least sought Congressional approval first. Sticking to a Declaration of War would hopefully raise the bar and eliminate wars that aren’t warranted but we must remember the War of 1812, the Mexican War, and the Spanish American War were all declared with a Declaration of War and they still divided the country. For that matter, even WWI, which was also a declared war, became extremely unpopular afterwards and was one of the main reasons FDR had a difficult time convincing all Americans of the threat posed by Hitler even after Hitler declared war on the U.S.

    ReplyReply
  43. Greg says: 94

    @another vet, #92:

    Let’s not forget the U.S. invasion of Grenada; also, the Dominican Republic in 1965; Panama in 1989, although in that case Congressional approval was sought and received after the fact.

    ReplyReply
  44. Blake says: 95

    @Wm T Sherman: Are you aware yet that the Administration has given permission for Hollywood to make a movie about the bin Laden raid? It is scheduled to come out in Oct. 2012, just in time for elections- what a coincidence, huh?
    And I will bet it will pump up Osama, er, Obama’s image as the go getter here, when there were “No Guts Required” here to make that decision. I bet the movie never reveals that the admin knew where Osama was for almost a year, before they had enough “actionable intel” to actually feel comfortable in pulling the trigger on this one. What more did they need for this to come about? A used condom with osama’s DNA?
    And this movie is supposed to hype Osama’s Obama’s stature in the US? Give me a break.

    ReplyReply
  45. another vet says: 96

    @Greg: Good catch on the Dom Rep. I don’t know how I could have missed that one. It should also be noted that there was virtually no opposition from either party in Congress on Constitutional grounds as to Johnson’s actions.

    Grenada and Panama weren’t included because they were covered under the War Powers Act. I should have left out the word ‘prior’ and used ‘never’ instead as that was my intent. Bad choice of wording and for some reason I wasn’t able to edit my comment after posting it.

    ReplyReply
  46. jerseyflash says: 97

    Blake#94 On #70 I make a statement on Hollywood making the movie titled “Barry killed Benny”
    Someone please disagree with me about the Seals (Code-Creed or Seal community jargon) IF YOU KNOW OR FIND OUT IT WAS US-IT IS A FAILED MISSION. Other then books and mags printed about all Sp Ops
    tell me the last time a GROUP OF NAVY SEAL was put in front of the camera. Any photo’s taken ALWAYS have there faces blacked out, no patches NO NOTHING. Does anyone think that this was the Seals first rodeo. Barry gave the order to “KILL”. As I said back on May 3rd, they did all of this for Benny’s HARD-DRIVE ???? (YOU CAN’T GET INTEL FROM A CORPSE****THIS IS FOR YOU*BARRY “No man is fit to command another that cann’t command himself”) I wonder who’s going to play Beeny’s daughter (the one that said they captured him first then shot-him)???? 45 min firefight ????? Who star’s as Barry???Benny??? Hillary??? I wonder if I get to see the REAL voice and camera work used in the raid ???? I hope they use a real SITUATION ROOM instead of that little room were Barry was sitting on that folding chair and the AF guy was sitting in that big lounger????? The ZOMIES are using the BRAVE-MEN and DOG’s blood to inject a shot of adrenaline into his DYING re-election program. For all you that say STICK-UP for the CIC, you stick it were the sun don’t shine. This CIC does EVERYTHING from the REAR and only when he has approval from the 3 “BITCH’S” When the SH@T is hitting the fan, you CAN NOT take 3 months or 16 hours to say “GO” !!!!!!!!!

    ReplyReply
  47. sgunsurgeon says: 98

    @Wilson: HE (Obama) well desrves every so called “cheap-shot” he gets, They are for the most part all true!!!

    ReplyReply

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>