It was supposed to be the end of the world as we know it
It was supposed to be the end of the world as we know it
It was supposed to be the end of the world as we know it
But I fine fine
On Sunday Barack Obama suggested that the world might end on Monday if Republicans did not fall to their knees before him:
Obama warns of US market crash on Monday
US President Barack Obama has raised the spectre of a market crash on Monday if the political battle to raise America’s $14.3 trillion (pounds 8.8 trillion) debt ceiling is not settled.
The stakes have risen sharply over the past 48 hours, after long-running talks between President Obama and John Boehner, the top Republican in Congress, collapsed in acrimony late on Friday night.
“It’s very important that the leadership 1/8in Congress 3/8 understands that Wall Street will be opening on Monday, and we’d better have some answers,” President Obama warned.
Failure to strike a deal by August 2, when the government has said it will no longer be able to pay all of its bills, will leave markets facing the prospect of the first ever major default by the US.
Ed Henry of Fox News noted that the world hadn’t ended on Monday and asked Jay Carney about it.
(video at link)
Ed Henry, FOX News: “But over the weekend, Democrats were saying there’s going to be a drop if there is no action. Asian markets are going to crash on Sunday. It didn’t happen. American markets didn’t crash on Monday, hopefully they haven’t crashed — why should people believe …”
Oops, said Carney.
Jay Carney, WH press secretary: “You should go on the air and tell your viewers there is nothing to worry about.”
Raise Taxes or Granny Gets It
While Obama and Geithner were attempting to scare the bejesus out of old people in telling them that their social security checks might not go out Obama was secretly assuring banks that there would be no default.
While officials from the Obama Administration raised their rhetoric over the weekend about the possibility of a debt default if the debt ceiling isn’t raised, they privately have been telling top executives at major U.S. banks that such an event won’t happen, FOX Business has learned.
Obama sought to reassure banks and frighten old people. That’s about right.
Hope and Change have been replaced by Fear and Doom.
The most dishonest man ever to sit in the White House doesn’t disappoint.
DrJohn has been a health care professional for more than 30 years. In addition to clinical practice he has done extensive research and has published widely with over 70 original articles and abstracts in the peer-reviewed literature. DrJohn is well known in his field and has lectured on every continent except for Antarctica. He has been married to the same wonderful lady for over 30 years and has three kids- two sons, both of whom are attorneys and one daughter on her way into the field of education.
DrJohn was brought up with the concept that one can do well if one is prepared to work hard but nothing in life is guaranteed.
Except for liberals being foolish.
If you were the head of a foreign county that wanted to overthrow the USA, how would you do it? Think of how other countries were overthrown without any violence. Compare that to what the democrats are doing? Are there any similarities? Does anyone see our King-in-Chief declaring marshal law in the near future?
Are times rougher than we all thought?
Prices to celebrate Obama’s birthday with him were $38,500 a couple.
Now there are tickets available for only $50.
Remember when Obama recommended on two occasions not to spend a vacation in Vegas? This, in part, helped to tank Nevada’s economy, and tourism dropped off considerably.
What he says about the stock market could have far-reaching effects.
Obama has a cracked sense of priorities.
While Obama has been occupied with the debt-ceiling debate,
Russia has deployed military forces to the Arctic and asserted territorial claims to a region estimated to hold a quarter of the world’s oil and gas reserves,
China is poised to deploy its first aircraft carrier as well as a new stealth fighter,
North Korea continues to develop and expand its long-range missile programs and cyberwarfare technology, and
Iran is on the brink of producing its first nuclear weapon while reportedly preparing to build missile bases in Venezuela.
Personally I will be glad once this debt ceiling situation is past us so that talks can be centered on what should be the real priority right now–unemployment rate and suffering citizens.
Obama would probably utilize the 14th Amendment to raise the debt ceiling if necessary. House republicans who created the crisis would then have an opportunity to attack a President who would make the case that his decisive action had narrowly averted disaster.
Wiser, more moderate, and more experienced republicans see the trap. John McCain certainly does. Boehner probably does as well, but he’s not a position to speak so bluntly to the extremist faction that is driving his party into it.
If the 14th Amendment is to come into play, the question is whether it would happen before the debt ceiling deadline has passed. As August 2nd falls on a Tuesday, my guess is that it would happen on that day itself or on the following morning. Obama would probably let the clock run out on Congress, but wouldn’t want the markets to be open through an entire day without the debt ceiling having being raised.
@Greg:
The President has no authority under the 14th Amendment to raise the debt ceiling.
The 14th specifically empowers the Legislative branch.
@Aye, #7:
Some would argue that Section 4 of the 14th Amendment compels him to raise the debt ceiling.
Payment of debt was authorized by law when Congress passed the legislation that resulted in it. Raising the debt ceiling is not authorizing spending. It’s a step that has been made necessary by the passage of legislation that previously authorized and mandated such spending. The President is bound by the 14th Amendment to act in accordance with such legislation. The President cannot question the validity of the resultant debt. If Congress wants to cut that spending, it must take action to remove the laws that required it. Congress doesn’t have the option of simply refusing to pay the bills.
Section 5 empowers Congress to pass new laws that might be necessary to see that the 14th Amendment has its intended effect. It does not put the Executive Branch in a position to ignore Section 4 provisions.
@Greg:
Those would be faulty arguments.
Section 5 clearly states that the responsibility for the enforcement of Sections 1-4 falls squarely on the Congress.
This is a separation of powers issue.
@Aye, #9:
That’s one interpretation. I imagine it would immediately become a question to be resolved by the Supreme Court. If the SCOTUS upheld that view, House republicans would once again be in a position to bring the wheels of government and a significant part of the national economy to a halt.
Would they want to do that again, before the 2012 elections?
@Greg:
Is English your native language?
There is no other way to read Section 5. It’s straightforward and plain.
@Greg:
Ali Velshi, this morning.
@Greg:
If they get and they veto two separate plans, they’re done.
They’ve offered nothing.
@Aye, #11:
Obviously there is a different way to read Section 5. I don’t see it as narrowing down the force of all other parts of the amendment to new amendment-related legislation to be enacted by Congress. I do see the first sentence of Section 4 as being very clear. Congress can’t simply and selectively ignore the debt created by the spending it has previously authorized.
Congress doesn’t pay the bills. Congress authorizes the spending that results in the bills. The Executive Branch sees that the bills get paid. Section 4 of the 14th Amendment states unequivocally that all debt resulting from what Congress has authorized is valid and subject to payment.
@Aye:
Thanks for linking to that video of Sen. Lee.
I loved it for a couple of different reasons.
1st, its substance.
Sen. Lee accurately expresses the issue and interpretation.
2nd for Sen. Lee’s style of presentation.
Who among us could miss the fact that Obama cannot get even one off-the-teleprompter sentence out without ”uhs,” ”errrrrs,” and ”aaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnds?”
More to the point, Obama does not express many deeper ideas off the cuff without putting his foot in it.
(”The police acted stupidly,” We have to spread your wealth around to others,” are a couple examples.)
But Sen. Lee has no teleprompter!
Sen. Lee has no notes!
Sen. Lee is talking from his heart and memory about things he personally believes.
THAT’s what makes expressing his thoughts here so beautiful.
Now the WH is saying that the GOP is going to spoil Christmas what abunch of idiots…I read a great piece on the Daily Caller from a blogger John Svengali if anyone has a chance go and read it he has Obama down to a T….
@drjohn, #12:
People have been making this same point for over a month. I believe Bill Clinton stated that he would have used the 14th Amendment in such a situation a couple of weeks back. Now we’re getting down to the wire. No one should be surprised if it happens.
@Greg:
The powers of the 14th are restricted to Congress. The Executive has no role or authority there.
Lawrence Tribe, hardly a right-wing conservative, agrees with me:
@Greg:
Actually, Greg, the very fact that the 14th Amendment states, specifically, in section 5, that “Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article”, is strong evidence that the Executive Branch of the federal government does not have that power. If the power to enforce the 14th was meant to be either shared, or vested in the Executive Branch, then that last section would not have been included, or it would have stated specifically that the EB has that power. One cannot even argue that the power is implicitly given to the Executive Branch, mainly because of section 5’s specific mention of Congress only.
You are attempting a stretch of the Constitution, and implying that intent is there when it clearly is not. I have no doubt that liberal/progressives will try to go that route, that you suggest, however, it will only be another example of their lawless attitude towards government, and the Constitution.
@Greg:
Bill Clinton is also a noted liar. Anything he says, or has said, from the moment he denied having sex with “that woman, Ms. Lewinsky”, should, at the very least, be taken with a grain of salt, but more commonly just dismissed entirely.
@johngalt, #19:
I guess, then, we’d be left with the conclusion that Congress can refrain from payment of valid debt that has resulted from its own legislation–a clear violation of Section 4 of the 14th Amendment–while Section 5 prevents the President from taking any action to prevent such a violation.
It seems there might be a logical flaw in such an argument.
Congress isn’t providing a means to avoid this dilemma. They’ve said absolutely nothing about what happens to the 40 percent of the accumulating debt that would immediately go unpaid. If their scheme for gutting the nation’s social programs had already become law, perhaps they could argue that they’ve addressed that. But their scheme hasn’t become law.
That gets me back to the thought that Obama may use the 14th Amendment as a means of heading off disaster, and then let the Supreme Court finally clarify the point for future reference. This would undesirable, but it might be better than the consequences of doing nothing.
@johngalt, #20:
I suppose a comment regarding Ms. Lewinsky serves as a useful reminder of how republicans have prioritized national issues in the past.
@Greg: Disaster is not coming on August 2. Not a chance. To paraphrase someone, I’ll believe there is a disaster coming when the people who tell me there’s a disaster coming start acting like there’s a disaster coming.
@Greg:
No, Greg, it serves as a reminder that Bill Clinton lied under oath, and in a televised statement to the American public.
The disaster would be political, if nothing else: Debt ceiling deadlock: Who will get paid?
@Greg:
That you would even suggest that shows your lack of comprehension regarding the 14th Amendment, specifically, section 4.
It doesn’t state anything about the payment of such debt, only that the debt incurred, authorized by law, is valid.
Article I, Section 8, clause 2 states;
Couple that with clause 1 of the same section, which states;
And with the last clause of that same section, which states;
All of that means that only Congress can authorize the taking on of new debt, and that only Congress can make the law necessary for doing so, and that only Congress has the power for the laying of taxes to pay for that debt. The 14th Amendment only deals with the validity of debt incurred by the government, not the authorization of new debt, nor the paying back of that debt.
It would help, Greg, if while arguing on the Constitution, that you had at least a layman’s understanding of it to begin with.
@johngalt, #24:
What I found chiefly annoying wasn’t that he lied, but that a witch hunt led by hypocritical republicans moralists forced a sitting President of the United States to discuss his sex life on national television under oath to begin with.
Enough said on that particular topic, perhaps. I’ll say no more on it.
@Greg:
Yes, and it will be amusing to see if Obama chooses to starve granny.
@Greg:
Fair enough, but witch-hunt or no, he lied under oath, and to the American public. That cannot be denied, nor shrugged off as some innocent mistake, regardless of the reason for him being in that position.
I guess we’ll find out what’s going to happen over the next few days. The old Chinese curse about interesting times comes to mind. Maybe it’s instructive that there’s no agreement about the actual origin of the curse.
@Greg:
The attorneys for Paula Jones were “hypocritical republicans”?
Strange, never heard that particular line before.
Guys, Greg is a child, nothing more.
…he understands as a child, he speaks as a child, he behaves as a child. It’s time to put away childish things.
There’s no point explaining the Constitution to someone who is going to willfully misunderstand the world and the clearly expressed meanings of words…it’s like wrestling with a pig…you get dirty, and the pig enjoys it…
Silence would be the appropriate treatment…
“Report finds unemployment levels in black communities in some cities mirror those of the Great Depression”. Well, well, well, how is that hopie changie thingie working for you 95% ers.?
THE DANGER I perceive is that you cannot trust what the PRESIDENT might try to do in a desperate mode if he is back to the wall, he has a problem with his anger management and he is like a dynamite stick ready to be lit,
so what ever his power is now, he will react WITH ANGER to punish all AMERICA AND WON’T CARE HOW HE HIT OR WHO WILL BE HURT.
HE ALREADY THREATEN TO CUT THE WELFARE AND OLD AGE SECURITY AND MILITARY.
THAT IS DECLARING HIS ANGER BY PUNISHING THE PEOPLE HE IS SUPPOSE TO PROTECT.
AND IT’S NOT THE FIRST TIME HE DOES IT, BY SAYING HE WOULD CHOOSE THE MUSLIM OVER THE AMERICANS, OR APPOLOGISE FOR AMERICA, ECETERA,
SO it can become that he would create the event listed in the 10 marxist law at the end.
using this opportunity
@Buffalobob:
One good thing about having Obama as president right now is that, if we had a white president, we would have rioting in all the big city streets right about now.
It is a hot summer.
And unemployment is extremely high for black males.
But at least they have hope.
@Nan G: #2
I don’t know if I would go if he paid me $38,500 to attend. I have ofthen thought that if I were in a group of people shaking hands with Obama, I can almost say that I wouldn’t touch him at all.
When is his birthday? Recently he mentioned that his birthday is in a week, when it was actually three weeks. With him using up to 39 known Social Security numbers, it would be hard for him to keep track of the current one he is using, which was issued in a state he or his parents never lived and was reserved for FOREIGN STUDENTS.
@Nan G: #4
As I have said many times, you have to consider who’s side Obama is on.
@Aye: #11
You’re wrestling with a pig in the mud here. When are you going to figure out he is enjoying it? The more you wrestle with him the more he likes it.
@Smorgasbord: #37,
“. . . . you have to consider who’s side Obama is on.”
That is, IMNSHO, the best comment under this article.
Barry, through his pathetic and abjectly idiotic fear mongering and proclamations of impending Armageddon, is playing right into the hands of Onshore and Offshore Trusts and Funds, including Chinese and Japanese sovereign wealth funds, who are now anticipating and even Expecting higher interest rates of return when the U.S. Treasury and The Fed throw the net out for more cash.
With Obama in charge, America is now seen as a beggar, coming, grovelling on its knees, looking for a hand out – when little could be further from the truth other than another Barry teleprompted address.
America is not on its knees, nor is Armageddon around the corner. Yes, the recession may go on for a decade, but inevitably, a leader will surface to replace the current lost and flailing Administration, and America will get back to work and productivity.
Thanks Obi, for your ineptitude and your efforts to cost all taxpayers increases in interest rates on the debt that will be borne by a few generations yet born. Hats off to you and all ignorant followers – you’re making history. You’ve done your best to kill businesses and kill jobs, while you’ve pandered to Wall Street, and now your stupidity is adding salt to the wound of taxpayers. Yah, thanks.
@Greggie: You said:
Exactly how did the ONLY the Republicans create this crisis?
Obama has added more to the national debt than ALL presidents from Washington through Reagan and yet you have the nerve to say that it is the Republicans’ fault?
Please cite your sources.
I await eagerly.
@anticsrocks:
anticsrocks, where where you, I was surprise to not see you in the comment about REAGAN’S POLICY
another vet, hi, yes a real new hope for many.
bye
@ilovebeeswarzone: Hopefully many won’t be enough in 2012.
@anticsrocks, #40:
From U.S. News and World Report–a magazine not generally known for a strong liberal bias: Blame Republicans for the Debt Ceiling Crisis
GREG and you think they are to be believe,
they are far from the reality,that the DEMOCRATS ALLOWED THIS CRISIS TO HAPPEN AND THE REPUBLICANS AND THE CONSERVATIVES WORK SO HARD TO GET THE OBAMA’S TO COME TO REALITY
THAT HE IS THE ONE WHO DELAYED THE WHOLE PROCESS. THOSE MEDIAS ARE
ON TO THEIR OWN AGENDA VERY OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY, AND i THINK MORE LIBERAL INCLINED THAN YOU SAY.
IF YOU’RE IMPRESS WITH THE WORLD NEWS, IT DOESN’T IMPRESS THE AMERICANS HERE
BECAUSE THE WORLD HAS ALREADY MADE THEIR OPINION ABOUT THIS CRISIS, AND ONE THING THAT I FIND VERY STRANGE IS THE COORDINATION OF SO MANY COUNTRIES TO AT THE SAME TIME ARE SHOWING TROUBLE IN THEIR RISING DEBT AND ECONOMY CRISIS, THAT IS STRANGE INDEED
as if they where doing it on purpose
another vet, yes we are working on it.
bye
@Greg: That article begins with the fallacy that without raising the debt ceiling, we will default. That is simply not true, therefore the entire premise of the idea is faulty. But thank you for citing a source for a change.
Now as to your “unbiased” source?
The author is a Democratic strategist, hardly an unbiased point of view, wouldn’t you say?
From the article you cite:
The Bush tax cuts were not just for the wealthy, the oil and gas “loopholes” are dwarfed by the “green energy” subsidies, and no where did Bush “fail” to pay for a war. As for us being in the black but for the afore mentioned things, well that is hogwash.
As I mentioned earlier on this thread:
.
.
@ilovebeeswarzone: Which thread was that? I admit I missed it Beezy.
“What is it, what nameless, inscrutable, unearthly thing is it; what cozening, hidden lord and master, and cruel, remorseless emperor commands me; that against all natural lovings and longings, I so keep pushing, and crowding, and jamming myself on all the time; recklessly making me ready to do what in my own proper, natural heart, I durst not so much as dare? Is Obama, Ahab? Is it I, God, or who, that lifts this arm? But if the great sun move not of himself; but is an errand-boy in heaven; nor one single star can revolve, but by some invisible power; how then can this one small heart beat; this one small brain think thoughts; unless God does that beating, does that thinking, does that living, and not I. By heaven, man, we are turned round and round in this world.”
Extract, Moby Dick, Ch 132