Politics and Policy, Then Anarchy? [Reader Post]

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Today I was reading an article by Jack Dunphy about Los Angeles, California, policemen and fire fighters.1 The article was written with a very pro-union slant by a current member of the LAPPL. While I am not a union sympathizer, the article was quite thought provoking, particularly about the future of this country. So, having nothing better to do, I did some research about this country’s politics and policies, and what is currently happening in Europe. What I found may surprise you, may make you angry, and (hopefully) forewarn you.

Politics – Obama’s policies, an economic disaster

There is no doubt that the current economic situation belongs to Obama and the Democrats.2,3,4 Both President Obama and DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz claim it. So any consequences that follow from their decisions ipso facto also belong to them.

As Skookum said in his post, 5 “Reveling in the arrogance of his victory and the inexperience of a Leftist Ideologue from academia with no real world experience, Obama chose to monopolize the government with his policies and ideas, while ignoring the opposition. The government and Washington became known as the Obamanation as we were bombarded with and absorbed Leftist principles and policy like never before in our history.” He continued, “Obama was confident to the point of arrogance and his refusal to admit his Marxist policies weren’t working, served to further anger the public when he continued on with his ideological conquest of America. He conducted the country’s business with the faith of the blind ideologue, effectively angering an ever increasingly larger percentage of the population, to the point that they became suspicious of his intent and wondering if he really wanted to destroy the economy rather than rebuild the economy.” BTW, Karl Marx 6 was a socialist.

U.S. Debt as a Percentage of GDP

Today (23 Jun 11), by one economist’s estimate, the debt is 100% of this country’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP). 7 A recent study 8 by economists Reinhart and Rogoff found that debt exceeding 90% of GDP hinders economic growth. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) offers a slightly more conservative estimate, 9 saying it will be 2021 before we reach that threshold if future spending is not curtailed.

Greece’s Situation

With the U.S. debt figure in mind, I examined the situation in Greece, where riots are currently taking place. The debt to GDP ratio is frighteningly similar between the U.S. and Greece, as can be seen in this chart.10

Metric USA – 2010 Greece – 2009
Spending as % of GDP 25.4% 50.4%
Deficit as % of Spending 41.8% 26.8%
Deficit as % of GDP 10.6% 13.5%
Debt as % of GDP 94.3% 115.1%

The article’s author, Robert V. Green, states:

The remarkable numbers in this chart are the deficit as a percentage of GDP and the total government debt as a percentage of GDP.

Greece and the US look very similar when these total debt and deficit spending numbers are compared as percentages.

Even more remarkable, however, is the fact that 40 percent of the US spending is financed by debt. The implication of this number is that the US will be adding debt to its balance sheet over the coming years at a faster rate than Greece does currently.

Green concludes:

When you compare the US debt situation using the Deficit metric, there are strikingly similar characteristics, particularly when viewed as percentages of GDP.

What this means is that someday in the future, when the intra-governmental debt needs to be redeemed to pay the future promised benefits of Social Security and other programs, the US may find its debt burden to be a difficult challenge, just as Greece is challenged today.

More digging found this reference11 about Greece by Frank Salvato:

Greece’s Socialist government has come to a moment in time when the system has failed. The promises of the Nanny State and prefectorial centralized government have come up empty and “the people” are angry as a result. If the citizenry of the United States of America isn’t careful and willing to make some painful adjustments, economically, we may be starring this future directly in the eye. Today we Americans stand at a moment in time when a very hard decision needs to be made. We can either follow the path of the Socialist Greeks, or we can fee pain in the form of sacrifice so that our country might continue to exist for future generations.

Another reference12 discusses the Greek, Portuguese, and Irish debt and its implications for the GDP.

EU Anarchy and Riots

All of Europe, both western and eastern, are experiencing rising austerity protests in 2011.13 Social unrest over the financial crisis has varied from country to country. In some of the worst affected nations such as Ireland and Latvia, acceptance and even apathy has prevailed, while Greece has seen fatalities and street clashes. There are signs of rising social pressures. Many Western European countries are only just embarking on multi-year deficit-reduction packages, a hard sell in states where expectations have risen for generations. Greek protesters clashed with police in central Athens as tens of thousands marched against austerity measures aimed at pulling the country out of a debt crisis. Italian rioters and police fought battles in Rome after Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi won a no-confidence vote. Britain saw its worst clashes in two decades as students demonstrated over tuition fee rises. More unrest is expected in 2012 as unions protest against much broader cuts.

And this reference14 provides information about riots in Barcelona, Spain.

This reference15 discusses the economic situation in Ireland. Dublin saw some demonstrations late last year, but they were rather civilized compared to the strife elsewhere in Europe. That will almost certainly change. Ireland is having a financial crisis caused by banks, not an economic crisis. If anyone is justified in feeling wronged, it is the Irish, because they are being forced to pick up the tab for their bankers’ gambling losses. The government is investing about €45 billion to recapitalize the banks. A big part of the €67.5 billion in bailout money Ireland is receiving from the European Union and the International Monetary Fund in December will be used to prop up the so-called zombie banks – ones that are essentially worthless but still carry on business with government support. The cost of the bank rescues more than doubled Ireland’s 2010 budget deficit to 32% of GDP, according to European Commission estimates, compared to 9.6% for Greece. The ratio of Ireland’s total public debt to GDP soared to almost 100% from 65% a year earlier. Thanks to the battered banks, the ratio is expected to reach about 115% by the end of 2012.

This reference16 discusses what MAY happen in England and what IS happening throughout Europe. Just imagine living in a Britain in which the state had broken down completely. You would see mobs rampaging through the streets and fires burning in the capital city. You would see thousands of people take to the barricades, blazing with outrage at their betrayal by the political classes. That is what is happening right now in Greece, at the epicentre of what may prove to be one of the most terrifying political and economic crises in our lifetime. What has happened in Greece is a chilling lesson in the dangers of European federalism, financial indiscipline and economic hubris.

The really terrifying thing is what this means for the rest of Europe. Greece is not the only country to find itself in this appalling mess. Many experts are convinced that the contagion will spread to similarly profligate members of the eurozone. Only a month ago the EU had to bail out Portugal to the tune of €78 billion, demanding massive spending cuts in return.

Last year Ireland, which had mismanaged its finances with breathtaking irresponsibility, was forced to accept a massive €85 billion bail-out, including some £7 billion from British taxpayers. But the real fear is that the infection will spread to Spain, where the collapse of the property and construction industries has left unemployment at 20 per cent and an economy teetering on the brink of meltdown.

Are Riots and Anarchy Coming Here?

This reference17, by Michelle Malkin, highlights the riots in Greece, as well as by the SEIU18 in San Francisco, CA, New Jersey, Santa Cruz, CA, and Ashville, NC. This reference19 discusses gas and food prices. Take increased oil prices, increased food prices and food shortages created by weather, government action/inaction and ethanol manufacturing and it appears that the United States has a recipe for disaster. Does this country really want a government who appears to be leading us down not only the fuel shortage path, but also the food shortage path? Do we want a disaster because everyone’s in a big hurry to “change” things? Here is yet another reference20 that discusses the consequences of debt. Riots and protests have swept across Europe, as populations lured into government dependency are upset that there’s no longer enough money to maintain the existing level of redistribution. It’s just a matter of time before the same problems afflict America. The solution is to limit the growth of government.

In economic straits (caused by Obama policies) where do cities look to balance budgets?

This reference21 discusses the budget woes of the city of Houston, TX, and the consequences of budget cuts. The city’s budget crunch now means firefighters and police officers could be losing their jobs. HPD Chief Charles McClelland says right now he’d have to lay off 181 police officers and 445 civilian employees. And a source tells us about 200 firefighters are facing job cuts, as well, due to the budget. “When we have structure fires with fatalities, it’s always almost the very, very young or the very, very old and we’re making a decision here that essentially says the city of Houston is OK with the very, very young and very, very old dying in house fires,” said Jeff Caynon, president of the Houston Professional Firefighters Association.

Here is a reference22 that discusses budget cuts in Camden, NJ. The article states: On Tuesday, officials in Camden, N.J. – a city that ranks high in crime and poverty – are planning to cut almost 400 workers, nearly half of them police officers and firefighters. And this reference23 discusses firefighters. Firefighters are sacrosanct. No matter the depths of a municipality’s budget crisis, neither the firefighters’ ranks, pay nor benefits are touchable. There are no reductions in force for firefighters. And yet, in cities all across the country, that’s exactly what has been happening. The new landscape has clearly been shaped by the brutal fiscal conditions in localities. In an era of such severe economic uncertainty, high-level municipal officials have not been shy about portraying firefighters as a group that has vacuumed up more than its fair share of municipal resources.

America’s Coming Greek Tragedy24, by DrJohn

And I could not possibly agree more with “America’s Coming Greek Tragedy” post by DrJohn, on 23 Jun 11. While his excellent article focuses on Greek unions, this post focuses on the consequences of failed economic policies. Ultimately, we both end at the same place: riots are coming to America.

So the bottom line is:

If anarchy25 comes to this country, who will maintain civil order and extinguish/fight fires after the cities, for economic reasons, let go/fire all of the police an firefighters?

And can cities look to police and firefighter unions for help?

But that’s just my opinion.

  1. http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/new-l-a-budget-is-ushering-cops-firemen-out-the-door/
  2. http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/269035/it-s-obama-s-economy-stupid-jonah-goldberg
  3. http://blog.heritage.org/2011/05/31/morning-bell-the-unstimulated-obama-economy/?query=Morning+Bell:+The+Unstimulated+Obama+Economy
  4. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/57025.html
  5. http://floppingaces.net/2011/06/21/%e2%80%9cthe-revolution-ate-its-children%e2%80%9d-maximilien-francois-robespierre/
  6. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx
  7. http://www.sutton-associates.net/blog/2011/02/14/us-debt-now-100-of-gdp/
  8. http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2010/07/debt
  9. http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/167780/20110622/cbo-congressional-budget-office-budget-deficit-national-debt.htm
  10. http://www.briefing.com/GeneralContent/Investor/Active/ArticlePopup/ArticlePopup.aspx?ArticleId=NS20100514150704AheadOfTheCurve
  11. http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0611/0611greeceword.htm
  12. http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-05-15/greek-portuguese-irish-debt-seen-topping-gdp-this-year.html
  13. http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/12/15/us-europe-protests-idUSTRE6BE3FK20101215
  14. http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/27/police-clash-with-protesters-in-barcelona/
  15. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-magazine/the-irish-arent-rioting-over-austerityyet/article1879098/
  16. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2004550/Greece-riots-2011-A-crisis-tear-Europe-apart.html
  17. http://michellemalkin.com/2010/05/05/the-anti-austerity-riots-in-greece/
  18. http://michellemalkin.com/2009/11/24/seiu-tantrums-in-san-francisco-update-public-sector-protectionism-rejected-in-nj/
  19. http://co2insanity.com/2011/02/13/food-and-gas-riots-coming-to-the-us/
  20. http://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2010/09/30/europes-riots-americas-future/
  21. http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=8088145
  22. http://www.npr.org/2011/01/17/132929677/camden-n-j-braces-for-police-firefighter-layoffs
  23. http://www.governing.com/topics/public-workforce/firefighters-feel-squeeze-shrinking-budgets.html
  24. http://floppingaces.net/2011/06/23/americas-coming-greek-tragedy-reader-post/
  25. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anarchy
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What would be truly revealing, although a daunting task to accomplish, would be to compare the spending in those EU nations to their charters, or laws, that detail what their governments are truly allowed to spend money on. Here in the US, a large portion of the federal spending annually is on items the Constitution does not allow the government to spend money on, if one reads the Constitution with a leaning towards originalism.

The fact of the matter is, though, that the spending our government engages in, continually creates new dependents of the government. That is just one of the serious drawbacks to having a government big enough to provide everything, because eventually, the government runs out of the money required to provide for those people, and we then end up like Greece, where the population riots because the government quits providing for them.

The liberal/progressives within our borders, though, are failing to recognize that this is the path we are on. They will continue to clamor for more and more from the “rich”, and when that well is dried up, demand more from the “rich, evil corporations”, but then what will they do?

They have a serious fault in their thinking. They believe that the country’s GDP will continue to increase, despite how the particular makeup of the economy is. Truth: Government does NOT create wealth. Never has, never will. At best they could maintain the current status quo, but even that is a stretch to imagine, considering the wealth they gather in from the country and spend on “bridges to nowhere”, such as the “green economy”. No, more likely is that they will continue to destroy the wealth created by private citizens.

How does this affect the economy? Well, a continued increase in the size of government, providing more and more for it’s citizens, increases the destructive tendencies of the government towards wealth. Couple that with an ever increasing population, both of legal citizens and illegal immigrants, all demanding their “bennies” from the benevolent government, and the diminishing GDP, reduces the pieces of the pie that can be distributed to each and every person in the population. And the more industries killed by government intrusion leads to faster and faster destruction of wealth.

Eventually, we get to the point that Greece is at, where reduction in “bennies” to citizens is required by government in order to provide some “bennies” to everyone. That is the point that riots happen.

We have a chance, as a country, to avoid such widespread public unrest, if we move back towards Constitutionally limited government, as original intent implies, and pay only for those items specifically listed within the Constitution.

A related article to government spending;

The Local Government Pension Squeeze

Although Democratic Mayor John DeStefano has enjoyed a good relationship with the New Haven, Conn., municipal unions through most of his 17 years in office, lately those ties have frayed. He says that workers’ wages and benefits have become “the Pac-Man of our budget, consuming everything in sight,” and must be cut. His budget-trimming proposals, including calls to privatize some jobs, have brought angry city workers into the streets in protest, and celebrity protester Al Sharpton to agitate for their cause.
…………

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304070104576399530309071422.html?mod=rss_opinion_main

Notice that proposed cuts, in order to manage the budget, brought city workers out in protest.

we should not be afraid to mention the fault is on the UNIONS DICTATOR,
and the GOVERNMENT IN BED WITH THEM, NOW MORE THAN EVER
BECAUSE they made them too strong by allowing them to become the main power who has contributing them to win their seat, therefor the leaders of GOVERNEMENT, HAVE BECOME IN DEBT OWING THE UNIONS,
and afraid to go against the abuse of the UNIONS,
we saw it very clearly, in WISCONSIN, WHERE EVEN THE POLICE TOOK SIDE OF THE UNIONS,
and did not protect the busysness, on the contrary, they used bully tactics to get them to accept their deal,
we saw the aftermath of their riots, littering the area like a bunch of uneducated street gang,
and to think those where teacher asking their students to join, other where doctors signing illegal absence
paper for them to get paid by GOVERNMENT TO PROTEST THE GOVERNMENT ALONG WITH FIREFIGHTERS AND POLICE OFFICERS, ALL THOSE WE USE TO LOOK UP TO AS MODEL OF A SOCIETY, HAD SOLD TO UNION’S TUGS FORCING THEM TO DEBATE WHAT THE UNIONS WHERE PAID BY THEM TO DEBATE BY THEMSELF.
GREEK IS IN THAT SITUATION RIGHT NOW, AND NO DELAY, NO MONEY FROM THE WORLD BANK CAN HELP A SITUATION LIKE THEY SINK THEMSELF IN, NOBODY WILL BE BRAVE ENOUGH TO STAND UP TO TELL THE UNIONS THEIR ABUSED OF THE POWER THE WORKERS ALLOW THEM TO HAVE,
AND NOBODY CAN REALY BLAME THER FEAR TO RISE UP, BECAUSE THE TUGS WILL DEMOLISH THEM, MOSTLY KILL THOSE WHO DARE,
SO the only solution is to let this happen, until it become to the bottom, to force reaction from the right people
to bring a complete reversal of their way of thinking, and break the chain every union’s members has been bounded with by their greed of taking too much for their value to give

We are already seeing ”flash mobs” taking advantage of Twitter and cell phone technology to come together all of a sudden and rob whites and businesses.
Yesterday one such mob ran through a Peoria neighborhood telling the whites they wanted them all dead.
Mobs, in other places, have attacked and robbed all the whites on buses, and other mass transit.
Mobs also race into stores and steal whatever they want.

In Greece you hear about the mob throwing yogurt at the riot police.

I think the problem is already here.
The msm is doing all it can to aid Obama by keeping it all off the front pages.
Just today, here, a bunch of black people told our newest neighbors to stay off the streets, move away or suffer the consequences.

The police union is so powerful and corrupt that their response time is getting longer and longer.
Without even official riots we were told by our neighborhood police to be prepared to take care of ourselves for at least 15 or 20 minutes AFTEr police have been called!

We are seeing the ”Watts Riots,” the “Rodney King Riots,” newest incarnation.
Very quick.
Very targeted.

The Way We Live Now: Flash Mob Robberies!
http://www.philebrity.com/2011/06/27/the-way-we-live-now-flash-mob-robberies-flash-mobberies/

DOZENS OF West Philly boys – ranging in age from 11 to 19 – stormed a Sears store in Upper Darby on Thursday as part of a “flash mob” and made off with thousands of dollars’ worth of merchandise, police said.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/124580568.html?cmpid=15585797

Newer forms of intimidation: “Pandemonium in Peoria: Mob yells ‘kill all white people’”; “Teen Mob Of 50 Hits Chicago Wallgreens”; “Flash mob of 40 rips off Philly Sears.” (Drudge Headlines June 27, 2011)
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/37929

@Nan G:

Without even official riots we were told by our neighborhood police to be prepared to take care of ourselves for at least 15 or 20 minutes AFTEr police have been called!

And I suppose they want you to do that with limited access to firearms as protection?

@johngalt:
We’ve been here through the Rodney King Riots and – trust me – a whole bunch of us have an amazing array of firepower!

During those riots we walked our perimeter (the whole block, not just our condo complex) in sight of one another, armed and with communications.
IF the police came by at all they only nodded assent.
Mostly they sped by on their way elsewhere – where people were not taking care of themselves so well.

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FreedomLoveAndTruth,
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Here’s a penny for your thought–that’s about all it’s worth, unless you’re an ultra-conservative right-winger. Sayers of doom have always been in abundance. Extreme right wing economists and climate scientists will always be around to distinguish their opinions from the mainstream. I guess well just have to wait an see. But I can tell you one thing for sure: A right wing extremist will never admit they were wrong–they’re like Fundamentalist Christians who prophecy the end of the world, but it never happens when they say it will.

Liberal1 (non objectivity): Here’s a penny for your thought–that’s about all it’s worth…

If we’re running to the value system, attempting an insult, I guess that would be why we tolerate your amusingly naive dribblings for free…

Liberal1[ objecthing]
the CONSERVATIVES WOULD HAVE THE COURAGE AND GUTTS TO ADMIT ,
if they where wrong, but the fact is they are always one step ahead of the DEMOCRATS, AND THEY ALSO POSESS THE GIFT OF PERCEPTION,THAT THE DEMOCRATS LACK OF MISERABLY,
MAKING THE CONSERVATIVES AT BEST TO NOT MAKE THE MISTAKE THEY FIND IN THE OPPONANT.
NO APPOLOGY NEVER NEEDED, ON THE CONSEVATIVES SIDE,
BUT YOU DON’T SEE IT DON’T YOU?

@Liberal1 (objectivity):

Your theme, throughout all your posts in various other articles and topics, is that conservatives are “extreme”, or “ultra-right wing”, or any number of other descriptive adjectives that you’ve used here.

Explain to me, and the other readers here, exactly how it is “extreme” thinking that we believe one should pay their own way, that the federal government was not made to socially engineer society, that freedoms and liberties cannot be encroached upon by the federal government, according to the Constitution, that a Constitutionally limited government is what our founders gave us, that history shows the statist mentality does not, and never has, worked successfully, that government doesn’t create wealth, only sets up an atmosphere to promote the creation of it, etc., etc., etc.

If you call any of the above “extreme” thinking, then you must believe the founding fathers to have been “extremists” as well.

My guess is that you do not, though, think of any of that as “extreme”, but are merely using those adjectives in order to shift the window of the range of social acceptance, as Overton described. Such action by you is not being ‘objective’ in any sense of the word.

Definition of OBJECTIVE
1 a : relating to or existing as an object of thought without consideration of independent existence —used chiefly in medieval philosophy
b : of, relating to, or being an object, phenomenon, or condition in the realm of sensible experience independent of individual thought and perceptible by all observers : having reality independent of the mind — compare subjective 3a
c of a symptom of disease : perceptible to persons other than the affected individual — compare subjective 4c
d : involving or deriving from sense perception or experience with actual objects, conditions, or phenomena
2 : relating to, characteristic of, or constituting the case of words that follow prepositions or transitive verbs
3 a : expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations

Your views directly contradict that third definition by your insertion of such descriptives as “extreme” or “ultra” within your comments regarding the “right-wing”. Hence, you cannot lay claim to the title of being an ‘objective’ commenter, and because of that, no one takes you as a serious contributor.

But, by all means continue to use those descriptives in your language. It identifies you as being truly “extreme”, albeit to the left, in regards to your musings you post here.

Thank you, MataHarley, ilovebeeswarzone, and Johngalt, for coming to my defense. However in his incoherence Liberal1 (objectivity) makes a very major mistake. He states: “Sayers of doom have always been in abundance. Extreme right wing economists and climate scientists will always be around to distinguish their opinions from the mainstream.” His mistake? He ignores the economic similarities between Europe and where Obama’s policies are leading this country. He, like most liberals, speaks with his feelings rather than research.

No problem, Warren. We’ve all learned to ignore liberal1 (NON objectivity). His opinion is worth exactly what we pay for it… nothing.

As to the Euro-socialist nations, those like lib/non/object tend to think that’s a superior model. Ya just can’t fight stupid.

Remove all components from America that right-wing conservatives deem to be unacceptably “socialist”. Come back in six months and ask the average person which was better–before, or after. What do you think they’d say?

@Greg: And just who do you propose will pay for your “experiment?” And how do you propose to sustain your experiment? Sure, socialism is great in the short run and/or for people who decide what socialism is (ala USSR)

Sorry, but taxing “the rich” will NOT make socialism work.

GREG, THEY WOULD SAY OH MY AT LAST THEY’RE GONE,
WE TOLD YOU TO DO IT IN 2008
all the time you waisted cost so much money

@Greg:

You know that your proposition is skewed, Greg. It took years and decades, and in some instances, nearly a century, for the socialist programs drawbacks to start rearing their ugly heads. It will take longer than six months to change it for the better. Your proposition wouldn’t prove a damn thing.

@Greg

Your experiment is flawed from the beginning, in that you immediately remove all the socialist programs, which will no doubt cause those dependent on the programs to turn violent against those who are not in order to survive. (Personally, I think that is the socialist-left’s plan. When the overloaded entitlement system fails after destroying the economy, there will be widespread violence as those dependent on the system turn predator against the rest of society. When that happens the elite will impose martial law, and try to wait out the civil unrest. Their mistake is in thinking that they will be untouched. )

If you really want to see a fair test, gather 2 groups of people that are relative to the demographics of society, (allowing some couples married or dating for that segment of society,) and you place each group on it’s own island. Each group has enough supplies and the necessary tools to build a society. The social experiment is:

In one group you tell them they are to institute full socialism, that they must only follow the socialist models designed by Lenin and Marx.

In the other group, they must observe the principles in the Constitution, the Federalist and Anti-federalist papers and the ten commandments.

Go back in one decade and see who is better off. Count the survivors, and look at how happy free and productive they are.