Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) told CBS’s Bob Schieffer on Sunday that some members of Congress were considering some kind of action in response to the Florida Quran burning that sparked a murderous riot at a United Nations complex in Afghanistan and other mayhem.
“Ten to 20 people have been killed,” Reid said on “Face the Nation,” but refused to say flat-out that the Senate would pass a resolution condemning pastor Terry Jones.
“We’ll take a look at this of course…as to whether we need hearings or not, I don’t know,” he added.
Meanwhile Obama condemns the burning of this book as intolerance. I call it freedom. If someone wants to burn the Koran, the Bible, or Huckleberry Finn they have every right to do it. Is it wise? No. But I didn’t hear Obama condemn the constant affronts to Christianity by liberal “artists,” or Muslims who burnt churches and burial sites.
Now don’t get me wrong. I don’t believe Obama is some secret Islamist who feels no condemnation towards these acts but don’t single one out and not comment on the other.
Our freedoms are sacred and even though some may dislike what Jones did, for anyone to suggest Congress should get involved is beyond lunacy. That is blaming Jones for how these fanatical Islamists acted. You don’t blame a girl with a short skirt for getting raped, you blame the rapists. You don’t blame a man who burns a Koran for the murder of innocent people by Muslims, you blame the murderers.
Will Congress now look into those who exhibit “Piss Christ,” “Ant Cross,” and “Jesus Porn”?
Of course not, and they shouldn’t. But we still get Harry Reid, and now Lindsey Graham calling for the loss of liberty:
“I wish we could find a way to hold people accountable. Free speech is a great idea, but we’re in a war. During World War II, we had limits on what you could say if it would inspire the enemy. So, burning a Koran is a terrible thing but it doesn’t justify killing someone. Burning a Bible would be a terrible thing but it doesn’t justify murder. Having said that, anytime we can push back here in America against actions like this that put our troops at risk we should do it, and I look forward to working with Senators Kerry, and Reid, and others to condemn this, condemn violence all over the world based on the name of religion. But General Petreaus understand better than anybody else in America what happens when something like this is done in our country and he was right to condemn it and I think Congress would be right to reinforce what General Petreasus said.”
Hold people accountable?
Amazing.
The premise that the actions of Terry Jones will threaten our troops is also inane. Those who fight against us in Afghanistan and Iraq do it NOT because we are doing things they don’t like. No, they do it because they are the fanatic fringe. Those who believe westerners are heretics and must convert or die. Whether the burning of the Koran is done or not our troops are just as unsafe. It’s called war.
If there’s no moral agency, then I guess the folks who argued for a return to colonialism after 9/11 were right. If Muslims aren’t capable of self-control or moral responsibility, then they must be ruled with a firm hand by those who are. Is that “liberal?” No, but interestingly the consequences of taking the ideas of liberals seriously seldom are. Alternatively, some people are just using this as an excuse to blame people they like less than savages and barbarians.
Terry Jones had every right to do what he did and he should not be forced to stop nor investigated.
More here
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This just keeps getting better. I would be unhappy if the Pastor of my church decided a public Koran-burning was in order, but I wouldn’t advocate his being hauled into court for his publicity seeking act. The mullahs who incited this riot should be charged along with those murdering others in the name of Allah. And Harry Reid and Lindsay Graham should step back from the precipice they are standing on when they call for suppression of the 1st Amendment.
I guess this means Obama’s buddy Bill Ayers can no longer discuss the genocidal killing of capitalists.
Every right we have in America carries with it a burden of personal responsibility. Terry Jones doesn’t get that. The First Amendment doesn’t give him license to incite violence through calculated provocation any more than the Second Amendment gives him license to use the pistol he totes around his church compound to take potshots at people.
Memo to Goofy Grahamnesty: The Murder Monkey Cult From Hell went ballistic precisely because it fears – FEARS! – First Amendment freedoms. If you attack the First Amendment, you are on the wrong side of this.
d(^_^)b
http://libertyatstake.blogspot.com/
“Because the Only Good Progressive is a Failed Progressive”
Terry Jones is not responsible for this (and yes I conceded he’s an idiot). Unfortunately as usual we have the “America should feel guilty about everything” legion out there that refuses to put responsibility on the shoulders of those who deserve it, namely the murderous radicals blinded by religious or cult like fury! I posted this on a post by curt yesterday, but it fits right in here also.
“And yet we have people here and in other countries informing us we should not and will not be allowed to exercise our constitutional freedoms under the guise of hate speech, intolerance or whatever one wants to call it! Burn a Koran, you will be charged with a hate crime. Burn the bible, that’s fine! Criticize Mohamed, you are a hater. Piss Jesus? That’s art!
Why isn’t everyone in this country outraged? LOL! I’m assuming I’ve posted enough here so one can imagine the word outraged doesn’t quite fit what I feel about this nonsense !
One doesn’t have to agree with the Terry Jones (the man is just another self-centered religious bigot) of the world but we sure as hell have to defend his right to do as he did. If I’m supposed to turn the other cheek when some commie bastard burns my flag, I sure as hell need to do the same in this and any other case! As much as I hate to admit it, he is correct on one thing. The idiocy we are now seeing over there does prove one of his points. The intolerance of these religious fanatics is beyond reason.
One other thing here as long as I’m on my soapbox. It is high time the people of this country stand up for their ideals. If I want to draw a satiric cartoon of Mohamed with his virgin harems, that is my right in this country. Yet, we have a rabid element starting with our President that wants to take that and other sacred rights away form us! We have a press who is afraid to offend and as such will not publish the truth about so many things. Personally, I don’t care who worships what! But I sure as hell care when one infringes upon another, especially with violence (Irish take note. Same idiocy there as I’m an equal opportunity disser. I mention this because once again religious fanatics are setting off bombs in Ireland. Same idiocy in my book!).”
Funny, Terry Jones has every right to burn his own copy of the Koran. However Barack Hussien Obama has no right to wage war on Libya. So why is Dirty Harry going to investigate Jones, but not Obama?
While I don’t personally condone his burning of the Koran, I am assuming it was his personal property, and as such, he has a right to do so. That isn’t the free speech part. I can burn my Stephen King novels too, if I wanted to, and as long as I didn’t cause damage to other’s property while doing so, it is my right. The free speech part of it is why he is doing it, and his explanation to that end.
Greg says:
I agree with that. Your rights stop, where others’ begin.
However, his burning of the Koran, while in some ways despicable, doesn’t affect others’ rights. It is a statement, nothing more, nothing less. It doesn’t stop someone from their own free practice of religion. If he burned a copy of the New Testament, it wouldn’t affect my ability, or desire, to go my church for sunday services.
If anything, this particular example shows something that people are not talking about. Namely, the irrational views of those Muslims that use such displays around the world to commit acts of vile hatred on non-muslims. That should be the lesson here, not whether we should, as a nation, give up more of our precious freedoms to buy safety. Those who killed, because of Pastor Jones, are the ones we should be condemning.
Freedom and liberty, or safety in servitude. I know my choice.
It seems to me the insisting violence argument is not right in that the pastor did not actually tell the rioters to riot, that was the people at the mosque. He burnt the koran and did not actually tell anyone to commit a violent act. I don’t think the starting a riot argument will get to far.
If he did do something wrong, maybe he burnt the koran without a backyard fire permit.
To all christians and jews in the Middle East: Invest in lead or get the hell outta there.
To Nato: Your bombing runs should be Quran leaflet runs.
Muslims have been killing each other and those who are different, for centuries. If Godaffy, the Amazon guards, and the loyal dromadaries want to kill Al Qeada, The Arab League, and their loyal dromadaries, let them get after it. Let the Quran do its job.
Well well you tell me that i can’t burn a book that i buy,wait until our burn ban is lifted.Then MUSLIM come on down to texas and see what happens.
I know how to settle this with the Islamist. If they bring a knife, we bring a gun. This should not be a problem for Barry since it is his words. That is the only thing that evil people ever understand in the end. Did we talk Stalin, Hitler, Hideko Tojo, Saddam, Ahmadinejad or Khomeini into stopping their evil ways? I can’t think of a single person who was talked out of being evil. It usually takes an ass whipping. Islamist live by the sword of terror and jihad and the only way it can end is by the sword. Ask a marine about dealing with fanatics who served on Iwo Jima or the ships attacked by kamikaze.
As to making it less safe for our troops, I think that is foolish. What makes it less safe for our troops is rules of engagement that limit their ability to end the war by making the pain of following that faith so painful that it is abandoned. I challenge anyone to find a war against evil that was not won without inflicting massive pain on the loser. Sherman’s march to the sea which included massive pain on civilians along with the constant onslaught of Grant ended the civil war. If Lee had not surrendered, Grant would have continued until nothing was left of the south.
@Greta:
I largely agree. You may not be able to kill an idea. But, if you kill everyone who thinks it a good idea, it’s soon forgotten.
But, instead, we send our soldiers and marines into harm’s way with their hands tied and our airmen to protect our enemies from each other. We should leave Afghanistan, after making sure it can no longer support a even a small heard of goats. The entire region isn’t worth the sweat of one of our people, let alone a drop of their blood.
It’s a waste to burn a Koran unless it’s being held by one of the bastards at the time.
I’ve pre-recorded my comment–this subject is everywhere.
Where should we place the blame? Killings and Koran Burnings.
Muslims have no problem with burning, shredding, blowing up Korans when THEY do it!
Mosques (full of Korans AND people) are attacked by fellow Muslims on a regular basis in Islamic countries.
So, it is NOT the destruction of their Korans they care one whit about.
It is that non-Muslims are, according to their Koran’s teaching of ”dhimmitude,” supposed to be subservient to Muslims – or else.
It used to be that Muslims understood that Sharia (and therefore dhimmitude) only applies to Muslim-ruled parts of the planet.
But uneducated Muslims take their word for what their imams tell them.
They don’t know that ”Florida” isn’t supposed to be part of a Sharia state.
They run riot because they are whipped up by charismatics who leave out any part of the story that might mitigate their response.
Years ago Elvis Costello had a song about two strong people who couldn’t stay together because they were both so sure they were right.
It was called Two Little Hitlers.
Islam is filled with thousands of imams and other leaders, some of whom each act like a ”little Hitler,” in that they take pleasure in being followed whether they have to practice taqiyya or kitman to gain and keep their followers.
CAIR representative Ibrahim Hooper Twittered, “We have no problem with non-Muslims obtaining our holy book. What we object to is people who don’t share our faith taking these passages out of context and discussing them in a profane setting, such as a church. That amounts to taking a holy thing and desecrating it.”
Talk about moving the goalposts!
Forget waiting until a Koran is actually burned or shot at.
Ibraham tells American Muslims that the Infidel simply reading and commenting on Koranic verses is desecration.
Can Congress paint us all into a completely surrendered-to-Islam corner that we could EVER hope to never anger these people?
No.
Why not?
Because their ”anger” is manufactured out of thin air as needed.
@Nan G:
As people can plainly see, Sharia law cannot be reconciled with our own Constitution.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the first amendment does not contain the caveat that it is null and void in times of war.
Idiocy rules in DC.
What Pastor Jones did is nothing more than an attention getting ploy. However, it is his right to do so and he is in no way responsible for those murders in Afghanistan.
If they burn some Bibles, would they be responsible if a bunch of Americans stormed a Mosque and killed 20 people?
Murdering savages go on a killing spree in reaction to an event half a world away?
Sooooooo…………What else is new?
THIS is a real problem.’
I simply do not believe that the burning of the book in Florida was the cause of the killings in “weird-ghanistan”. It matters not what slogans were shouted or what printed signs said when these strange beings from outside my understanding committed the acts of murder. For even that word, murder, does not have a relative meaning in what happened. We have our own personal perspectives of what murder is and it is based on the same perspectives as “Pavlov’s Dog”. Politcal pavlovian pablum . . . “We have to settle for the pablum that passes for the inside dope”.
pab·lum (pblm)
n.
Trite, insipid, or simplistic writing, speech, or conceptualization: “We have to settle for the pablum that passes for the inside dope” (Julie Salamon).
Love the arguement the left (and RINOS) is/are making.
Per their reasoning if someone burns a Bible and I go on a rampage killing people, the person that burned the Bible is to blame, not me.
The Dems are all over protecting the right to burn the flag, but for the Islamists we got to bend over backwards.
If the supreme court said that people like phelps in KS can picket during military funerals (which is despicable) because that is freedom of speech this is too. Question though. I don’t hear the rantings when someone burns the American flag, why?
I have gotten to the point I have become intolerable when it comes muslims and their religion. I never see anyone defend Catholics (I am one), and in fact I see a lot of the times art exhibits that disparage the religion and make mockery of Jesus Christ. Oh yes, but this is all right however to make any remarks about muslims and islam is a sin and should be against the law? I don’t care if there are good muslims because I realize not all muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists have been muslim
I used to have about four posters on my wall as a child.
All were from WWI.
One of them read: Loose Lips Sink Ships and had a woman with her finger to her mouth, shushing us, like a librarian would.
If you knew a state secret, like your Navy husband or dad told you he was shipping out on Weds., it was UNWISE to share that fact with anyone.
Anyone could be an enemy agent.
People did keep quiet about what they knew during the WWII era.
But, at home, there was a lively debate for and against the war.
In sermons, in newspapers, in classrooms, in cafes, in parks, everywhere.
Even Dr. Seuss (the Cat in the Hat guy) got into making political cartoons.
You could use your freedom to speak….the government could use its power to watch and even constrain you.
That is all a far cry from the idea of demanding the Koran as deserving of respect by all citizens.
Is there a separate-but-equal demand that all other books be respected in their very beings?
Looking at a book as an icon is a weakness, not a strength.
If more Korans get destroyed, if the Korans destroyed BY Muslims get publicized, maybe Muslims will develop the strength to resist the charismatic power of some of their imams to act out in this way.
Maybe.
I don’t know if anything will work.
Egypt’s new power brokers, the Muslim Brotherhood, have called for the establishment of a Saudi-style modesty police* to roam the streets and carry out ”justice” against women with hair showing, men with clean-shaven faces, couples walking together, and so on.
Obama wanted to establish an American Domestic Security Force as large and well funded as our military.
What would it do?
Walk in and check my lightbulbs?
My shower head?
My paint for lead?
My windows for double-glazing?
*http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=215050
There were times when I thought Lindsey was a reasonable person. I didn’t agree with everything he said, but I thought he took time to consider the arguments and make thoughtful conclusions. Now he has jumped the shark tank. We had limits on what could be said to inspire the enemy during WWII? Did this man ever watch Looney Tunes? They won’t even show them on TV any longer because someone might get their feeling hurt.
I think Mark Steyn had the best response: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/263767/re-lindsey-graham-and-first-amendment-mark-steyn
Free speech isn’t an idea you RINO jackass. It’s a right.
Sen. Graham has added to his earlier comments.
GRAHAM:
Free speech probably allows that [Koran burning], but I don’t like that. I don’t like burning the flag under the idea of free speech. That bothers me; I have been one of the chief sponsors of legislation against burning the flag. I don’t like the idea that these people picket funerals of slain servicemen. If I had my way, that wouldn’t be free speech. So there are a lot of things under the guise of free speech that I think are harmful and hateful.
NRO:
But don’t you understand the concerns about a U.S. senator determining the limits of free speech?
GRAHAM:
Not really. Nobody said anything to me when I said that you can’t burn the flag. People say that is free speech, but I don’t agree. What I was saying is, if I could hold people accountable, I would. But I know that we can’t. I just don’t like the idea of free speech being used as a reason to put our troops at risk. They’ve got enough problems already. I really believe that responsibility ought to be part of free speech. You can’t yell “fire” in a theater. There are a lot of things that you can’t do under the guise of free speech. I just hate it when somebody here, some crazy person, acts in a way that puts our troops in jeopardy. I really feel the need to condemn that. To me, that is not a responsible use of free speech.
NRO:
Couldn’t any kind of speech be interpreted as something that could put the troops at risk? Something the president says? Something a U.S. senator says? You could point to any speech and blame it for something.
GRAHAM: Well, that’s what I’m saying. I agree with that. We live in a free-speech society. But when Harry Reid said that the war was lost in Iraq, I didn’t like it. But he has the right to say it. I just want us to be responsible and realize that we are at war. I guess that is my point.
NRO: So you don’t want to do anything legally to limit speech. You’re making a political point.
GRAHAM: Right. I want to push back and say, “be responsible.” But I would vote for a constitutional amendment to ban flag burning, okay.
NRO: What about Koran burning?
GRAHAM: If not a particular act, I would like to be able to push back against things that put our troops in harm’s way, at home and abroad. But there is no way to regulate all of the speech that you are talking about. I am not suggesting that we have a constitutional amendment to ban Koran burning, or Bible burning, or anything else. I am suggesting that I wish that we could make people accountable.
Much more at link.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/print/263848
The comment by “Fits” @ 2:25 is a must read from this related thread on another site I frequent.
http://www.ihatethemedia.com/reuters-media-bias-on-terry-jones-koran-burning-and-its-aftermath/comment-page-1#comment-78947
Maybe Linsey Graham could take his message of “responsibility” to our public housing units where there are thousands of women who feel it is the “reponsibility” of others to allow them to exercise their right to have as many children as they want in spite of the fact that they can’t support them.
I would ask Grahamnesty Lindsey, if our soldiers are NOT fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan for the right of everyone to have free speech, then why the hell are they there? Are they only fighting for the right to build schools that get blown up and they have to rebuild again?
@JustAl:
Thanks for sharing that personal account.
We used to have a nephew who was a bit off.
He would join the navy, get kicked out; then join the army, get kicked out.
His version was always favoring him being a genius and too far ahead of all his peers.
Sure.
Well, he was unreformable and it ended up costing him his life at only 35.
The right to free expression is not limited to only prudent expressions.
If the minister (he has stepped down and his son now heads his church, btw) is attacked for his expressions he (or his survivor) is as entitled to legal recourse under the law.
@Nan G:
Apparently the ‘good’ Senator doesn’t understand the phrase “Congress shall make NO law”. He also doesn’t understand that instituting even one small caveat to freedom of speech takes it from being ‘free speech’ into ‘regulated speech’. From there, it isn’t that far to the point where speech can be restricted at will, whenever someone says something a politician doesn’t like.
Kind of like with “the right to keep and bear arms” has devolved into “the right to keep what firearms we say you can, but you cannot use them, or even hold them, except in specific areas, and for specific purposes”.
Yes we are at war. In this case we are fighting the forces of stupidity and cowardice. Grahamnasty just demonstrated why he is one of their “generals” and not ours.
Lindsey Grahamnest is a joke. And why did General Petreaus join into the fray? Was he “ordered” to make some comment about how dispicable he found the burning of the Qu’ran?
Here is the message that losers Graham, and Reid, send to the Muslims of Afghanistan: if you riot and kill enough people, we will apologize for all the liberties that we enjoy and maybe even pass bills to take them away. Just don’t riot and kill anymore and we will continue to kiss your nasty asses.
We taxpayers just picked up the tab of an Obama admin man who went to Afghanistan to tell them our new foreign policy:
What can the U.S. do to quell the violent spasms of Islam? Promote Islam, naturally.
“I am of the opinion that one of the strongest tools that you can use to counter radicalization and violent extremism is Islam itself, because Islam rejects violent extremism,” Rashad Hussain, U.S. special envoy to the Organization of the Islamic Conference, said in Kabul.
Rashad, a devout Muslim, says the Muslim faith is “key” to the administration’s strategy to turn Muslims away from violence.
The IBD editorialist adds:
It’s also at odds with what the co-chairmen of the 9/11 Commission — including Democrat lion Lee Hamilton — recently recommended in their follow-up report on homegrown terror, “Assessing the Terrorist Threat: A Report of the Bipartisan Policy Center’s National Security Preparedness Group.”
It found that Islam was catalyzing terrorists abroad and inside America’s Muslim community. And it scolded U.S. leaders for pretending otherwise.
Hussain helped draft Obama’s conciliatory Cairo speech to Muslims. Before joining the White House, he regularly spoke to Brotherhood front groups and defended Brotherhood leaders like Sami al-Arian.
(Hussain first denied defending the convicted terrorist, claiming he was misquoted, but recanted after Politico.com produced a tape-recording of his remarks.)
page two here.
http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=568093&p=2
@retire05:
Is it not the height of irony that the general weighs in on the preachers’ act when the general is ordering the killing of Muslims while the preacher is doing a completely legal act?
I think that bears some thought.
NanG, what the hell are our leaders telling those violence animals in Afghanistan? That is they continue with their 7th century barbaric ways, that we will bend over even more to try to appease them?
Here is what Graham AND Petreaus SHOULD have said:
“We understand that you of the Muslim faith hold the Qu’ran very dear. But true freedom comes when you can speak your mind. Against your government, against politicians, and yes, even against others, as long as there is no physical harm done to others. When you are free to express your dislike for anything, only then can you claim to be really free. And as there have been cases where Muslims have burned the Bible, the holy book of Christians, no one was murdered in the name of the Christian God over that action. That, my Afghani friends, is true freedom.”
Instead, we will get the dhimmi apologists who simply think if they continue to kiss the unwashed asses of the Muslim masses, we will win hearts and minds. We won’t. They will continue to think we are the “weak horse” as OBL called us. We lost ground with Graham and Petreaus’ statements, and did not win ONE heart or ONE mind.
There’s a difference between needing an excuse to kill versus needing an opportunity to kill.
Some Muslims are always ready to kill; others not so much.
So, why kill these people?
So, singers are to blame, right?
And ”allah” knows ”austere” Muslims HATE meditation!
@retire05:
This sign was displayed by a Muslim in LONDON.
(Islam’s opinion of freedom.)
@Nan G:
Nan, Petreaus is turning out to be a much more politically correct General than I could have ever imagined. While it wasn’t a hinderance in Iraq, it is most certainly so in Afghanistan. Ask our soldiers if you disagree. They ARE NOT happy with his ROE.
His latest pronouncement is really how he thinks from what I can tell.
@Hard Right: I was just going to say the same thing. Petraeus’ Rules of Engagement are PC to nth degree. Stupid and short sighted. They put our troops in much more harm than any burning of a Koran.
Members of both parties seem to be at engaged in whittling down and limiting the rights of “The People” that the Constitution specifically states belong to each individual citizen, and that these egotistical elite swore to protect. The rights of the people are not given by the States, nor the Federal Government. In fact these rights are expressively withheld from government. Wishy-washy judicial branches have often been just as complacent in limiting our rights, when they take the government’s side of “acceptable reason” in a dangerous slippery slope that erodes the rights of the people.
This is why I and many others do not trust politicians of either party. With their patronizing “we know what’s best for you” political messages and their own sleazy personal agendas. If the founders were alive today, I suspect they would likely create a public works program: Building gallows for the hanging of corrupt politicians who have violated their sacred oath, betrayed the trust of the people, while setting themselves up as an elitist, psedo-nobility. Practicing the arts of collusion in their ivory towers, while wallowing in the obscene wealth they have accumulated from marketing their power and influence.
There are those on the far, far left who want to see an end to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I actually have a brilliant strategy for that. Have far left people pose as goofy pastors with small congregations and start burning Korans like there was no tomorrow, and posting the vids on YouTube. This would drive the Muslims so crazy, that they would be in permanent outrage, and we would finally leave Iraq and Afghanistan because they are no longer people we can deal with.
Yes, I am brilliant. 🙂
@Nan G:
This is an excellent point; I don’t think that I have heard anyone make it before.
@anticsrocks:
It’s galling that he is more concerned with “alleged” civillian casualties than American ones.