Finally.
Barack Obama finally got around to taking a position. Now that the dust is settling in Libya, Barack Obama is taking a position. This is exactly the same as he’s done for his entire career.
And the position he’s finally gotten around to taking is Sarah Palin’s. She got there on February 23.
Now, as Gaddafi is mopping up, Barack the Bold appears on the horizon.
In the Illinois State Senate, Barack Obama voted present 128 times. He would often use it to duck the tough issues.
Sometimes the “present’ votes were in line with instructions from Democratic leaders or because he objected to provisions in bills that he might otherwise support. At other times, Mr. Obama voted present on questions that had overwhelming bipartisan support. In at least a few cases, the issue was politically sensitive.
Not every state allows the “present” vote, but then hardly any other state can compete with Illinois for pure corruption.
If there was any doubt about voting present being Obama’s mother’s skirt, it was dispelled by on the debt his vote against raising the debt ceiling in 2006. Back then Obama said this:
The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.
He voted against it, knowing that he could vote against it. When pressed to explain the vote, Robert Gibbs mumbled
Gibbs said Obama’s vote was not necessary at the time to secure passage of the bill, which squeaked by 52-48, and that he was using the occasion to call for fiscal discipline.
Thus Obama could stake out the noble position without any political risk and without having to be point man.
Just like now.
The assertions that Obama was being “deliberate” and/or “thoughtful” with regard to Libya are ridiculous. They are the pathetic efforts of liberals to cover for this complete absence of leadership.
The need for a no-fly zone is past. It’s too late. Way too late.
But only then does Air Obama take to the skies.
The world called the US at 3 AM and there was no one to answer. The world was looking for a leader and none was to be found.
France took the lead in the concern over Libya. France’s Sarkozy and England’s Cameron have left Obama biting at their heels.
France is to host talks on Saturday with senior politicians to discuss what course of action to follow in Libya. The UK’s Prime Minister David Cameron says Britain will send fighter jets “in the coming hours” to enforce the no-fly zone.
Only then in the shade of political safety did “Brackets” Obama make an appearance.
On March 12 the Arab League voted to support a no-fly zone and asked the UN to impose it.
March 12.
On March 16 Hillary Clinton called vote that a “sea change.” And still nothing happened.
So there it is.
The Arab League opened the door for Obama on March 12. They all but begged him to go to the UN and stir action.
Sarkozy and Cameron probably threw their arms into the air waiting for President Godot and decided to go without him.
Only when Gaddafi was closing in on the Benghazi finale does Barack Obama get off the recliner.
Game over, man.
If you appreciate that unique and ideal combination of ineffectiveness, meaninglessness and tardy symbolism in a President, Barack Obama is your guy.
Very well put- McCain/Palin looked really good to sensible people in ’08, and they look better and better with Obama’s near-constant bumbling, finger-pointing and golfing. George Bush on his worst day would be 50x better than Obama on a good day- if he ever had one.
Drudge is reporting that French jets are over Benghazi. It’s pretty sad when the French look bold and decisive compared to the United States. (no offense meant, Mizz Beez)
Well, one good thing came out of Obama’s dithering on Libya. Hillary announced she won’t be working for him on the off chance he get’s re-elected in 2012.
Obama did wait.
He watched the cues from his friend, King Abdullah, who leads Saudi Arabia.
I wonder if Obama is heartened by the Saudi creation of a HUGE new civilian security corps?
King Abdullah ordered the creation of 60,000 security jobs within the interior ministry,
promised more money for the religious police and,
in a sign Saudi’s ruling Sunni elite will tolerate no dissent, said the media must respect clerics.
This is a move to the right.
If becoming more fundamentally Islamic is ”reform” this is reform.
King Abdullah announced billions of dollars in handouts for his people and boosted his security apparatus.
Maybe we should pose the issues in the Middle-East and North Africa as a game and report the results on ESPN. Maybe then we can get some decisions!
What I found truly disgusting was that he was interviewed by ESPN for the Women’s NCAA brackets as well. Now, I don’t have anything against the Women’s basketball tourney. I do, however, question the decision to discuss that tournament, which doesn’t enjoy much popularity amongst the population who loves sports. No one I know goes out and fills in a tourney bracket for the women for some betting pool. And I work with women who do watch women’s BBall!
He certainly was decisive, though, in his picks. The image of Nero fiddling while Rome burns is certainly fitting for this president.
@DrJohn
One more thing. That picture! It’s been used since Obama before he was even elected. How in the world could anyone who has seen it ever question the intelligence of Sarah Palin when the bumbling fool shows up in a picture talking to the wrong end of the phone?
Has anyone ever noticed the moment this clown makes one of his ultra late asinine decisions after the worse has already occurred he immediately heads for some foreign country and lets his flacks take the hits? Bad enough he doesn’t have the balls to make a timely decision on anything other than his warped ideology, but he can’t even face the music. As it appears this guy is in a galaxy far far away or possibly practicing his putting one should never expect anything other than ridicule from around the world as to America’s leadership as there isn’t any left. This indictment is also aimed at the entrenched Republican scumbag politicians who refuse to take a stand against this Commie in Charge and his economic policies all in order to keep their phony baloney positions. Actually, I do know where he is at three am. he’s in LEFT field with the rest of the Anti-American ideals scum in leadership positions.
When I saw the title “its 3am do you know where your president is?” I thought Obama must have gotten drunk and was in jail last night.
@johngalt:
Yeah, but what I’m wondering is, what is the person on the floor next to him doing,
and why are they on the floor?
“So our message to the dissidents,” Rubio said, “the people with the bravery to stand up to Muammar Qaddafi, and then the people maybe thinking to stand up to the Iranian regime, and in other places, our message is: ‘You guys go ahead and do this stuff, and if we can ever get the Russians or the Chinese to ever come around, we may or may not join you’?
“Russia and China don’t care about this stuff,” Rubio continued. “They don’t care that Muammar Qaddafi is going to massacre people. So if Russia doesn’t care, and China doesn’t care, and we care but won’t do anything about it, who is it up to – the French?”
Sen. Rubio Questions Obama’s “Puzzling Inaction” Over Libya
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Brn-7fOGGY&feature=player_embedded
The US is now the Junior Member of the Coalition of the Reluctant. Once a Superpower, Our Foreign Policy is dictated by the UN which is falling into League of Nations staure. The Current Regime dithered, hesitated and has become a new Graduate of the Neville Chamberlain School of Diplomacy. Incompetency and Mediocrity personified. I knew what was both possible and achievable but the outcome remains uncertain and cruise missile strikes, ala Bill Clinton, will not remove Qaddafi from power or bring back the lives that have been lost over the past two weeks. Quadafi’s ground forces are still engaging the Rebels and will continue to do so. Too little too late.
In the past hour, 112 Tomahawk cruise missiles were launched against 20 Libyan targets from U.S. and UK naval vessels that had been prepositioned off the coast.
Apparently there was planning going on that the media wasn’t privy to. Perhaps President Obama is aware that Colonel Gadaffi is not without a television. What Gadaffi probably is without now is a functional air defense system.
@Greg: So, where was he 4 days ago? Oh, filling out the NCAA BB Brackets!
@Randy, #12:
Yep. I trust Colonel Gadaffi found all the media coverage of that both relevant and informative.
@johngalt: I’m glad to see someone mentioned the upside-down phone. I can only hope that the picture was Photoshopped. I hate to think that we are led by someone that sadly lacking in sense. Oh wait, we are. Never mind.
@ConservUSA: He certainly did! That is why he continued to kill people. Nothing happened until the French took the lead. That hasn’t happened since they deserted the Maginot line.
What has happened to Larry Sinclair?
http://www.larrysinclair.org/2011/03/11/state-county-agencies-claim-they-have-no-reports/
Top Ten most likely places to Find Obama:
1. Playing golf.
A lot of Americans wish they had the time, let alone the money, to hit the golf links twice a month. The day after the Japan earthquake and tsunami, Obama played his 61st round of golf, fewer than 26 months into his presidency.
2. Foreign travel.
All modern Presidents take foreign trips, but Obama combines pleasure with business, picking hot vacation spots such as Rio, where sightseeing will be mixed with meetings.
3. Vacations.
Obama likes to spend time on Martha’s Vineyard in August and in Hawaii for a lengthy family visit around the Christmas holiday. The family has taken a long weekend in Chicago. Also a trip out West to the Grand Canyon and Yellowstone. And to a beach in Florida. Plus to New York for high-society events. Nearly a dozen vacations since becoming President.
4. Dining out.
Obama likes to eat out.
His culinary exploits once inspired this headline on a blog following the first family during a Martha’s Vineyard vacation: “Obamas Depleting U.S. Lobster Supplly.”
5. Playing basketball.
Obama has a regular pickup basketball game with friends, and also played some hoops last summer with NBA stars LeBron James and Dwyane Wade.
6. White House concerts.
Obama invites famous singers and musicians to serenade him at the White House.
The likes of Paul McCartney, Joan Baez, Stevie Wonder, Smokey Robinson, and Bob Dylan during performances honoring Motown, Broadway, and “Music that tells the story of America,” including “Songs of the Civil Rights Movement.”
7. White House theater.
The Obamas have been getting good use of the White House theater in recent months, having guests over for a Super Bowl party, movie screenings, and sporting events. During a screening of Thurgood, an HBO film about Thurgood Marshall, he shared popcorn with Al Sharpton, and for a Chicago Bulls-Charlotte Bobcats game he invited Illinois and North Carolina lawmakers over for Chicago-style hot dogs and pulled pork, with Dove bars for dessert.
8. Sporting events.
Obama likes to take in a ball game from time to time. He often snarls Washington traffic while attending basketball games at the Verizon Center or baseball at Nationals Park. Once, he briefly called the game for the TV audience. “After retirement, I’m coming after your job,” he told CBS announcer Clark Kellogg.
9. Youth sports.
I’d watch my kids play, too, btw.
During a crisis, Obama stepped in when his daughter’s basketball coach couldn’t make it to a game and coached the team himself.
10. NCAA brackets.
How much time does Obama spend before coming on ESPN to share his brackets?
I bet it is a lot.
@ Old Trooper
There you go again Old Trooper. Shoot first and ask questions later.
Clock still running on your prediction Old Trooper.
Again, another prediction. Thanks for playing!
Folks, what I say below is caustic and hard, even for me as those of you who have seen my comments would know. My apologies in advance, but I just can’t sit and listen or read the blithering idiots on the left and for that matter the rhinos and scum on the right defending an administration and it’s policies and decisions that have done more to hurt this country in the last two years (although the problem began well before that). I addressed it as an answer to one of Greg’s comments, but it’s really aimed at all of the Anti-American. no counts who seem to hate this country and everything it stands for. FA has added a new author, C.J. who is one of our soldiers. I always wonder how he and others feel about the hate that is shown for the country he and others swore to defend.
@Greg: Big deal. We shot 112 cruise missiles. What’s this? 4 weeks after this started? Who gives a damn what planning might have been done! The only reason he signed on to any action is because he was led by the nose by the biggest cowards in history the French! Better still, he probably didn’t want the fact that Hillary has balls ten times bigger than his to ruin his sad sack excuse for a Presidency. While his so called planning was going on (personally I call it “he had his head stuck up his ass and had absolutely no intention of doing anything unless forced” how many hundreds or thousands of people died in Libya and for that matter everywhere else where he chose to ignore what was going on! One cannot defend that which does not deserve defense! He has not yet taken one action that would define leadership other than to approve of the Anti_American Racist, leftist slant he so desperately adheres to as is his ideology!
Where was he at 3am? Who the hell knows? I just truly wish he wasn’t here. The man is an insult to the office of the President and our country! On top of that because of his “vote present” attitude, this country is now perceived to be weak and with a complete lack of will and leadership by the rest of the world in general! He has destroyed not only every bit of respect this country once had but has in fact made us a laughing stock! And forget the ideals the world knew this country once stood for!
We now have our leaders openly stating their Marxist ideals such as the money earned by those they deem to be rich belongs to the masses. Am I sounding a bit pissed right now? You’re damned right I am! I am sick and tired of people like you who can only spout the company line and try to defend this guy with inane nothing! No facts, just the same old liberal Bullshit!
My father, three step fathers, my brother and my son-in-law now all fought and gave their blood as have so many others over the last 220 years or more to give us the greatest country ever known. My son-in law is on his way back to Afghanistan now. when he was home we talked about the fact (As C.J. has) that the troops sense nothing but disdain and scorn from this administration, especially the CIC!
Our forefathers handed us something special and to sit here day after day having the MSM and pin headed morons doing everything in their power whether it be lies or the direct assault on the law of our land and our ideals is repugnant to me and the others who put our love of country and adherence to it’s ideals first!
All here who have seen my stuff know how I feel about this. This president is a communist and a traitor! He does not give one damn about this country. It is evident in his own words and actions and if people could get their heads out of their asses long enough to actually read his words and watch what he does, they would have to agree, that is provided they themselves were not already ideologically corrupt as are the hard left liberals as well as some of the corrupt idiots on the right!
You and others probably don’t like what I have to say above. Np surprise there. I’ve seen enough in my 60 years to realize the truth doesn’t mean anything to ideologue on either side. In all of your posts as others, all I see are the same worn out lies. I for one am tired of it!
Our country is dying before my eyes. Bit by bit our Freedoms and rights are being stripped from us. In Fl, a court has ruled for Sharia law! I sure as hell don’t see anything form the left or this Muslim oriented Racist administration or it’s blowhards questioning why anyone would allow something to upstage the law of the land! But it happened!
I want my country back! I and hopefully others refuse to back down! I and others refuse to believe the lies and deceit as put forward by this administration, the MSM and the ignorant people who defend such without realizing that one the takeover is complete, they to are expendable as has always been the case. Of course, seeing the left (and the hard right) choose to rewrite history rather then learn from it, they only know what they have been indoctrinated with.
So, here we are. I am not going to bend over and take the dry tapered corn cob up the ass as this pathetic excuse of a leader is doing. I am not going to allow them to take the rubber mallet and drive it all the way up and neither should anyone else!
What vital American national interest is served in this exchange in Libya?
How about stablized European Markets that are affected by Sweet Crude that is collected by companies from Spain or France or Sweden, which in turn is a series of Countries that consume Services seated in the United States…
I guess you didn’t think that far, did you Blast? Disrupt the European’s Fuel lines, and you distrupt American Economy by tagent connections.
@joetote, #19:
Anyone who believes that thoughtful, measured action is better in war than thoughtless, impulsive reaction. Calculated misdirection can also be exceedingly useful.
I doubt if anything today has taken Hillary Clinton by surprise. This looks quite well-played by the Obama Administration to me, both militarily and in terms of international politics.
@joetote: Why don’t you tell us what you really think! I likely would have used different words, but the thought would have been the same.
@Greg: Yes, Greg, you would think this was well thought our like most of your posts!
Mr. Irons, you have mentioned European interests, not VITAL American interests. Let them take the lead. Let them pay in blood and treasure. We have given more than our share.
Thoughtful, measured action Greg? That’s not the opinion that is being echoed in our Military, we were primed and ready to strike at Gaddafi’s main armor divisions with drones weeks ago and we missed that chance. It took the French, historically joked about as the dithering Nation, to take Political and Military actions first. A reactive attitude towards a Tyrant is a doomed attitude.
Blast, unless you’re blinded, If the European Union’s energy supplies are halted what do you think will happen to the United States Economy and Stocks? They will collapse due to the EU addressing what limited budgets they have for International Trade to addressing riots and civil discourse in their Nations. This means loss of sales and unemployement here. If you’re this stupid of how this instablity can cause damage to the US in just economic sense, don’t play the game.
@blast: There are so many ignorant people in this world who fail to understand we are in a world economy. Why do you think the stock market went down with the events in Japan? Do you really think that curtailing oil that normally goes to Europe will not affect the price of oil in the US? Europe is in American best interests!
@Mr. Irons, #26:
Weeks ago there wouldn’t have been a UN resolution, other nations ready to be the first to commit, or statements of support from other Muslim nations. There was also the possiblity that the uprising by Libya’s own people would bring Gaddafi down without outside intervention.
A knee-jerk response by the U.S. weeks ago would have put the whole thing on us, politically and militarily. We’d have taken on most of both the burden and the blame. And there would have been very little time to plan carefully.
UN Resolution or not, The French Government already had addressed and set forth supplies and men to back the Revolutionary forces fighting in Libya weeks ago as the French Government acknowledged that the Rebels fighting are the Legit Government of Libya now. Why do you think French Air Command has been exteremly detailed in their sudden No Fly Zone and anti-armor actions against Gaddafi’s forces or more importantly where our Curise missles are getting the needed cords for strikes when we don’t have ground forces to make effective target ID for strikes? French Military have taken the steps along with their Government to make an embrassment of the Obama’s Admin and the Global Scene as well. Given French ablities at the UN Security Concil, only an idiot would think the UN wouldn’t follow given how Gaddafi is seeking to halt EU’s fuel lines.
Mr. Irons
This is not a game and you sir, if you feel that war is a game… should have your head examined. If the EU vital interests are threatened… let them take the lead. If they don’t want to… that is their problem. We are already in two wars, and helping a close ally in the midst of a colossal disaster (which will effect our economy way more than some minor 2% oil disruption).
Your wanton and cavalier use of our military is no better than liberals that want to spend us into oblivion.
War is not the game I’m talking about, bub. Then again you’ve shown your ignorance of how the EU’s economies are directly tied to the United States. Sweet words won’t change that. The major reason United States did not go into a stark Depression, much to the chagrin of Obama’s Admin, is due to European trading of goods and Services that are seated State side including Information systems and software Suites along with infrastructure equipment. The EU faces higher fuel prices per Liter of gas or flat out shortages just for consumers and you’ll see riots more bloody than the Greek or Spain riots over simple Pension squables and that means the EU will have to take budget out of planned purchases of American goods and Services to quell and silence uprisings. European Businesses and even Governments that buy from the United States will have to instead buy higher priced fuel or energy bills or not get any energy to allow for digital transactions (which in a Global economy can lead to total business failure and shut down.) They either have to buy the higher priced fuel or deal with our Nation, in the face of things they’ll deal with Fuel and cut international trade.
Even your own Side has admited that the US Economy’s weakness as of now posses a very serious National Security Threat.
@Randy
The economy might be interconnected, but we are not in a world government… and the USA is not the worlds police department. Investors will have to suck it up, just as any other type of speculation. This does not rise to VITAL national interest. Keep in mind Libya produces only 2% of the worlds oil production.
A world government has jack nothing to do with Economies, Jackwagon. And this tried old bitty of, “Police department.” I hate to break it to you but Bill Clinton tried making the United States the Global Police Department and look where it got us.
Our Economical Stablity relies on the Stablity of the trade partners we deal with, and if you did not understand the United States’ current Economical model is that of Service Economy instead of Manufacturing. We rely on International Trade far more than you think, and it is a Vital part of our security at home Economicaly. Unless you haven’t been paying attention, just under Economical reasons we’ve had aggressive protests in various States. So now you’re trying to write off that our Economy and the stablity of an Allied Federation of Nations such as the EU is not a vital part of our Survival?
Are you this stupid?
@Mr. Irons, I am not you bub.
What side are you talking about?
Don’t quit your day job… you are no economist and your simplistic example is just that too simplistic. You give Libya a lot of power… after all they represent only 2% of the oil production, and the Saudi’s have the flexibility to match that. Right now speculators are driving the cost of oil up, not real shortages. Remember Japan… they are not consuming oil at previous levels. Spare crude out there.
Funny thing about so called Conservatives… they don’t follow the Constitution, they want war without a declaration of war. They want to entangle the USA in every problem under the sun. Oh… and they don’t ever pay for the wars they want. Just put this war on the old credit card huh…
Sadly to you Blast, I have been in Business school and have passed all my Economic classes including Micro/Macro/Mangerial/and Business Law. What you don’t understand is how complex and how tied together we are to the European nations thanks to various 1960′s and 70′s trade agreements to prevent the useage of M.A.D. policies (Or if you can’t understand that, to prevent the USA and USSR from nuking the hell out of each other.)
And this isn’t a Declaration of War. That falls squarely on Congress and that can easily be done even with a Democrat majority as most Democrats have been questioning Obama why he took so long in assisting an Ally seeking our Aide. The French are doing this act of War, not the United States so I don’t get your little blithering bit of, “violating the Consitution” when we’re not acting on a Declartion of War but under a previously agreed Treaty to the French to assist them in peace keeping duties (It’s that darned old NATO bit).
Libya’s oil production is only 2 percent on the Global scale, but for you to ignore that most Sweet Crude consumed by the EU is supplied by Libya, that’s rich in itself.
@Mr. Irons, you seem to have random capital letter in your comments, reminiscent to another “expert” on here. hummm..
You can make your faux argument about economic issues in this case. ‘Dithering’ around the fact that only 2% of the oil comes from Libya and world consumption is down and there are ample supplies. You did not address the Constitutional authority of President Obama to go to war without a declaration of war, and who should shoulder the costs. Shall we raise your taxes to pay for this?
And I want to add one more bit, if sweet crude from Libya is halted, where do you think that the EU will go to purchase its Sweet Crude supplies? 2 percent of Global supply is a few million or so barrels of oil, so when the EU has to now directly compete and bid against the United States against the suppliers of the United State’s sweet crude what the hell do you think is going to happen? Prices will increase here as bidding processes goes to the highest buyer due to laws of scarcity. Another factor that could impact our Gasoline/Energy prices due to what type of oils we have to refine for our Gasoline supply pending State by State due to emission laws.
If you have issues with random captial letters, I can show you an elementary room where you can just rant over childish things all you like. Your ignornace in how something like 2 Percent of global oil supply (or a few million barrels of oil that is mostly consumed by the EU) can impact the United States is a classic example of stupidity.
To add:
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-countries-consume-the-most-oil.htm
2 Percent of global supply will pretty much end up meeting EU needs…
I guess you did not actually read the article you linked. Oh, and don’t forget the reduction in oil need in Japan due to the damage to their infrastructure.
Reduction of Oil in Japan? Bahahahahahahaha…
Hell’s Bells, you’re a raving fool.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12774106
To maintain Japanese power grids, they HAVE to import in oil supplies.
@Randy:
sometimes you have to stop pussy-footing around and say it like it is. I wonder how many would love to say it like Joe did, but are too afraid of the backlash. I, for one, agree with his take on barack, barry, steve or whatever his name is and what he is doing to this country. We need to be afraid, be very afraid.
@ Mr. Irons
Again you did not read.
Markets are looking at the total consumption, fuel for cars and for energy production. It will be many months before new generation capacity are put online and the additional capacity will be gas turbine.
GAS TURBINE. LNG! Do I need to spell it out Mr. Irons?
@johngalt: The picture is photoshopped…but does speak to what people think of him that he could actually have been so stupid.
@Madame DeFarge: No, it’s not so far-fetched when the man has actually said things like “57 states” and “the Austrian language”. If any conservative had said anything close to those slips, we would be hearing about it ad nauseum until the end of time. The truth to all of this is we are led by President Placeholder: A man who is happy to appear in ANY media venue in order to keep his “iconic” image in front of the public but unwilling to take an unequivocal stand on important issues unless dragged there kicking and screaming.
The following peek into Obama’s inability to make decisions is impossible for the MSM to defend. This was published everywhere across Europe over the past couple of days, which remains puzzled at the President “Present-in-Chief”. . . . . European governments “completely puzzled” about U.S. position on Libya
Hillary had no explanation, because there was none. No wonder she wants nothing more to do with this President after this posting as SOS.
If it had really been that Obama was waiting for Europe’s decision first, as is proffered by Dem trolls, then the above would never have occurred. Europe had made a decision, and was waiting for the indecisive White House to take a stand.
In future it looks like, for the next 2 years at least, that Obama will wait to get a “YES” from China, or Russia, or the European community, before making decisions. No point annoying our good and excellent friends in Beijing and Moscow.
I have to admit that I’m experiencing some schadenfreude over this situation. It sure looks to me like “dumb old” Sarah Palin has goaded The One into totally destroying himself with his base. It’s so great to see a master at work. Nice job, Sarah!
Nobel Peace Prize Winner Enters Third War by Tommy de Seno at Ricochet:
“Good thing a Peace Prize winner is in charge.
Who can forget his beautiful words on limiting presidential war powers that gave us such hope for change to finally come to the way America waged war, like this statement on December 20, 2007:
Or this from March 27, 2007:
Or this from September 26, 2008:
Or this gem about priorities from October 2, 2002:
So, who do republicans figure we’d have borrowed the money from to finance a U.S. led invasion and occupation of Libya?
Maybe they figure this one would also pay for itself.
Wow, James Raider… with the new and improved FA instant ” approval polls” for “like and dislike”, it makes me wonder who the heck is lurking out there, and why three people would “dislike” your comment?
Do you think it’s because they disagree and won’t say why? Or because they are simply unable to comprehend your commentary?
Either way, I’m feeling like an alien here…. Other than that, to the not so new or vague topic here… what is surprising?
Oh.. let me add… I’m on the quest to collect all these background “dislikes” at the moment… LOL
I am sure you are.
You have to understand, Barry was getting serious advice that you are not aware of on the issue of Libya that included a threat. did Barry want to appear to be the frog taken over by the dragon? After watching these two videos, you will know why Barry was so slow.. He was being warned very clearly. I thought that threatening the president was a crime? And also isn’t inciting a riot also a crime?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYQRPSVEE_I&NR=1
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY-_JsNrxiM
And you have to assume that Rev Wright was also on the phone with Barry…
@MataHarley: You noticed that too? It’s amazing that the same folks who bashed Bush for permanently getting rid of Saddam Hussein and crippling Al Qaeda to where they weren’t able to launch another attack on this country for 7 plus years are now thumping their chests because Obama, on the heels of the French, launched 112 cruise missiles on Qaddafi after he has taken back all but one small part of his country. Kind of like launching a cruise missile attack against empty terrorist camps in Afghanistan after numerous terrorist attacks in this country and abroad that resulted in hundreds dead and thousands wounded.
Unlike Obama’s party, I fully support our service members who were involved and do not think they are war criminals like Obama’s party referred to Afghanistan and Iraq Vets or cowards as Obama supporter Bill Maher called our pilots for bombing Al Qaeda and the Taliban.
Well, another vet and James Raider, now I’m truly mystified. So many hits on another anti-Obama story, and James Raider’s comment merely echoes that the int’l community is absolutely baffled by the new stances of non-superpower leadership assumed by this current WH denizen.
And yet, at this point in time of writing, James Raider’s comment now has five “dislikes”…..
Now I wonder… just who is reading this post at all? 15-16 commenters out of 53 comments total.. most in agreement that it’s another day in Obama’s inept life as POTUS.
Yet five “dislikes” for @James Raider’s comment??
Now I’m dying of curiousity… you “dislikes”… what did you dislike? Speak up, fer heavens sake!
@blast: Oh those damn conseratives. They went to war in Korea, Vietnam, Bosnia, Kosovo, without a declatation of war. Oh wait, that was the democrats!
@Greg: Well, well mon Greg, your accolades for his impotence’s (the progressive, marxist after two plus weeks of dithering) action after being gored by a feminist anti-war gadfly is consistent and predictable. For a man who doesn’t even know how to clean an M16, M9 or M1911, to declare war on a sovereign nation in support of a “revolutionary rabble of unknown Islamist intent/backing” is beyond the pale yet you applaud his actions.
Oh how honorable it is that we launched an indiscriminate attack with 112 cruise missiles. Gee, I know how incredibly accurate the Tomahawk cruise missile is; just remember the pinpoint accuracy of our many launches on Bagdad and the hell you gave President Bush for each and every ‘miss’. Now, I am not for, nor have I ever been for Gaddafi but isn’t it interesting that Britain so conveniently jumps in to take Gaddafi down when only yesteryear they released the scumbag responsible for the Lockerbie downing of the PanAm flight to curry favor for access to the Libyan oil contracts. Again, his impotence is always on the side of right as noted on his teleprompter.
Greg, please keep up the dialog of why we launched 112 cruise missiles with such absolute accuracy to ensure that we are not also guilty of killing civilians. With absolute certainty, our missile attack killed at least one unaligned innocent civilian. But that is OK by your apparent Bronx cheer, just collateral damage for those unfortunate enough to live within the strike zone of 1000 #s of HE.
I see why this is a popular discussion board. It is comprised of mostly Obama non-supporters AKA Bush Babies. It is one thing to post on a neutral, diverse board….but cmon 99% of you on here wreak of either Repulican, arrogance, and even issues with race. Perhaps you should find “the dark side” and tell us how you feel about Obama. Who knows you might end up with a warm heart after all the friction. But this is too easy…its just a board of nearly everyone agreeing that Obama isnt much of a President. Free your mind and your ass will follow. Instead of all you complaining about Obama – go do something proactive as an attempt to be the next candidate for Presidency – then we will talk about you and how you dont wipe your ass correctly!
@MataHarley:
Well, I can’t help you with the ‘dislikes”, since I’ve never clicked on that button, but I imagine not everyone, even here, is as upset as James Raider that Obama didn’t rush and bumble his way into yet another Middle Eastern conflict without weighing the American lives and interests in the balance, and how unilateral action would leave us holding the bill again while every other nation on Earth slowly backed away. Funny thing how when Arab nations are forced to step up and take some responsibility for their region, they can’t turn around later and call Americans “Western invaders”. I guess a foreign policy that actually thinks several moves ahead won’t satisfy those checker players who believe that being super macho is the highest of Presidential virtues, and damn the consequences, but I for one have little issue with the US pressuring European and Arab nations to finally put their money (and lives) where their mouths are. Why not let others do some heavy lifting for once? I suppose Obama won’t get his “Mission Accomplished” banner though.
@ Yeah, OK
And you would be wrong to assume we are all Bush Babies. I will assert that we haven’t had a worthy President since Reagan. They’ve been progressively more spendy, and progressively more obsessed with the idea of a new “international” order. I don’t even particularly like the Republican party, but they are better than the alternative until we can get a viable third party up and running. I do not possess the hubris to suggest myself as the next candidate for President; but I do vote, and the discussions here can help educate one on the issues. Yes, we are generally conservative, but by no means homogeneous.
Come to the dark side? Race issues? I’m going to excuse you as being to mentally inept to argue with.
I don’t judge by the color of peoples skin but by the way obamas mother was caucasian, so he is just as “white” as he is “black” my point is why bother saying he is black?
@Greg: Wow! to use our best modern President’s words “There you go again” Greg: “So, who do republicans figure we’d have borrowed the money from to finance a U.S. led invasion and occupation of Libya?
Maybe they figure this one would also pay for itself.”
Who was talking about Republicans?? This is and has been from the beginning a one party show from his impotence to Ms. Hillary and even Bite Me: The independent BHO party committed to the destruction of America as we know it. Get off of it. To incite war it helps if one has credibility and the modicum of appearance of a moral belief in the value of our fellow man. This is not self-evident to even the most learned observer let alone a “Natural Born” citizen of this formally great country.
@Semper Fidelis 72:, #54:
Most likely there was nothing the least bit indiscriminate about it. There were a couple of weeks there to systematically compile and prioritize a list of the most critical Libyan air defense targets–radar implacements, coordination and control centers, fixed and mobile ground-to-air missile implacements, etc. It’s a good bet that they’re now mostly ready for recycling. The next logical step would be to render a few critical runways totally unuseable–assuming that hasn’t been accomplished already.
In retrospect, it’s interesting how many times over the past tw0 weeks we’ve heard the opinion expressed that imposing a no fly zone would be of little real consequence. That followed on the heels of Secretary of Defense Gates’ televised presentation during the open House Committee meeting. A serious undertaking that would produce uncertain results, he said. It would require two aircraft carriers; the danger of shoulder-launched air-to-ground weapons would still exist; there would still be anti-aircraft guns; destroyed air defense implacements could be rebuilt–yadda yadda yadda.
Gates knew who the important audience was. It wasn’t only the people in the committee room, as I’m sure many of them realized. Gadaffi isn’t without a television.
Consider the geography of Libya. It’s 90% desert. Anything that goes from here to there either flies or goes over totally exposed roads and highways. The first thing any competent military strategist would do is take out Libyan air defense and attack capabities. Once that’s accomplished, you’ve got the upper hand.
It’s nice to read that even the Left appreciates the pinpoint accuracy of a cruise guided missile.
Gaddafi had to grab so-called volunteers to surround himself with human shields as a way to maybe keep alive.
In Gaza today 54 UNGUIDED mortars were launched into Israel in a space of just 15 minutes.
Hamas sort of took credit in that one of their commanders was killed when the IDF targeted the heat signature and shot back.
LOL!
No Israeli, either Jew or Arab Muslim, was killed today although a few were injured.
Could have been very different.
UNGUIDED explosives can hit anything……
Schools.
Hospitals.
Homes.
Apartments.
Cars.
Men.
Women.
Children.
Babies.
These things cannot even be aimed.
@blast:
Oh, Blast, I read just fine. Apparently you didn’t nor even took the time to read what I linked. In a classic song and dance, we get this little quote from my source I linked and you ignored:
Which follows this lovely quote:
Translation: Prices for the current goods on supply are going up for European market as Sweet Crude supplied to it to be refined for certain Gasoline Octanes will have to be purchased by another supplier that has direct competition with the North and South America Nations and China on top of Russian crude will exit the European markets to satisfy the Japanese buyers because Japan is buying this at a higher rate to relieve their energy needs.
The Logistics of transporting fuels, food and supplies that satisfy needs in the society will be impacted in the European Union as prices for fuel go up due to shortage of Sweet Crude and its purpose as a certain refinement source due to emission laws. In turn, the EU to make up shortfalls and to prevent logistic nightmares and let alone riots have to compete against the supplies the United States has to bid by making the prices for both the US and EU rise as it goes to highest bidder in the markets.
The United States projected price per gallon of Gas is expected to hit about 5 dollars by June, 7 by Fiscal Quarter 3 (aka Fall) due in part of decline in Libyan Sweet Crude production and supply to the EU and the growing power needs of Japan in the form of refined fuel by outbidding of other Nations. If you can not understand how this directly threatens US National Security in terms of Economical havoc wrought by higher priced domestic Energy which is dependent on prices of barrel of crude…
Thank you for playing, your ticket was not a winner. Please play again.
And have a door prize for trying:
http://www.econbrowser.com/archives/2005/08/sweet_and_sour.html
And in case you need a treat:
http://omrpublic.iea.org/
Enjoy.
But back to the main point, Obama had weeks to assist the French to ensure Gaddafi forces could not mobilize armor and air craft to counter Rebel forces fighting in open terrain and to assist the Rebels in preventing the destruction of Oil Production facilities and to hold tactical areas that overpower Gaddafi. The French Ambassadors were breathing down our Nation’s neck to do something, Conservatives domestically has nothing to do with it much to their opinions of the matter. The decision point to act was a window of only so many hours, just like JFK’s and Johnson’s moments of Presidency in terms of flashpoint issues. There’s a reason why tactical choices and toughest leadership choices are nicknamed, “Flashpoints.”
@Greg: This is the text of the UN Resolution.
Show us where it says cruise missiles may be used anywhere, but especially on Tripoli.
This is war. We have another undeclared war. We’re going to cripple another country which has not attacked us. They’re going to break it and NOT fix it afterward? Is that what you guys are saying here?
Whose government do we attack next?
China?
North Korea?
Egypt?
Saudi?
Tunisia?
How about Zimbabwe?
Whose government do we decide to topple and why? Whose civilians are we going to “protect” next? To whose cries are we going listen next?
This is eerily reminiscent of Iraq. It is a mirror image. After all his bullshit about Iraq, Barack Obama has done EXACTLY the same as George Bush and you morons on the left who applaud this action are absolutely the worst of hypocrites.
The difference is, Bush made sure the mess got fixed.
This is the UN and this is Obama. I don’t think this military action changes anything. Gaddafi stays. The notion that Gaddafi is a threat to the entire region is horse crap.
They all said that this action is NOT to change the government in Libya.
How long are we going to keep this up and why?
This UN resolution does not say military targets may be attacked anywhere and everywhere.
Barack Obama has gotten us into something bad and it’s way too late even if you believe we should be doing anything, and I do not.
For the guy who was against the Iraq war as strongly as he was, this is an astonishingly hypocritical action by Obama. And it’s astonishingly hypocritical of left wing loudmouths to support it.
It’s going to be really interesting to see how many civilians are killed in these attacks.
@Nan G: Hamas can attack Israel but apparently those attacks on another country are not so important as something happening inside another country.
One has to wonder- is that because Joos are being attacked that Obama ignores them?
@Greg:
You don’t know and cannot prove it.
The Arab League voted March 12.
It is of unending amusement to me that Barack Obama has Sarah Palin as his de facto adviser now. After their poo-pooing of a no-fly zone they spun around completely to her position.
@Greg: Come on, Greg. Say it for us.
Sarah Palin was right.
@Greg:
Let me point out more of this bullsh*t.
A few weeks ago Gates summarily disposed of the notion of a “no-fly zone” as “loose talk.”
Given that that’s precisely what is occurring now it is crystal clear that either this is a knee jerk response or Gates’ answer was a knee jerk response.
I leave Greg to tell us which is which.
You lefties are boxed into a corner.
If this remains a “no-fly zone” action, it doesn’t stop Gaddafi’s military. There is no sanction to do more.
@James Raider:
This is exactly right. It was a popularity contest and Barack Obama was hiding behind the skirts, or, er,um, a pantsuit.
@blast:
Exactly what the hell do you think just happened in Libya?
MARCH 19, 2011
OBAMA: ‘Today we are part of a broad coalition. We are answering the calls of a threatened people. And we are acting in the interests of the United States and the world’…
MARCH 19, 2003
BUSH: ‘American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger’…
@Machiavelli: You described my political affiliation. I appreciated the concern for those of us he sent to war, but I opposed his failure to curb spending and his views on immigration. I think the people who inhabit this blog are dedicated more towards Constitutional law and personal responsibility rather than a specific party. I know I have voted “against” during the last elections rather than “for”. I have also expressed myself vehemently to the local political leaders.
@Greg: You really have no clue again Greg. Iraq is “90% desert”. Why didn’t the same thing apply to Iraq?
Blast, we know your game, and nobody want to play with you,
get of your high heels and deflate your head and appologyse
when progressives are wrong, they always resort to using “nasty” remarks. That’s how you know they are wrong. @Yeah, OK:
DRJohn, on your 63, The PRESIDENT BUSH attack IRAK for a good reason,
remember 9/11, and IRAK was the choice to attack for his dangerous way of treating his people with mustard that we wouldn’t put in our hotdog, and collecting gadgets of potentialy using it to eliminate his neighbords and more reason
Yeah, OK, you can go wipe your own ass, because this post is for smart people not for your ignorant expertise
@ilovebeeswarzone: I do remember, Bees. I want the left to remember how harshly they treated Bush for doing what he did and how quick they are to excuse Obama for doing worse.
@randy as to #23: Randy, I have a tendency to get really ticked off and once I get going, I’ll let it fly! That’s why I put the apology at the beginning as I know I’ll probably offend someone in some way as to my (for want of a better word) crassness. On the flip side, I think and hope people realize these aren’t just the rants of some ideological lunatic. As disenchanted said in #40, he believes there are folks out there who want to say what I said and how I said it but are afraid. Also, before I sent it, I did think about it and decided I would not be true to myself if I sugarcoated my comments. what you have and what you get is the raw version of joetote. Besides, I’m to old to worry about what folks think of me now. already blew that one! LOL!
I’m not a writer by any stretch of the imagination. I’m just a common everyday guy who has had enough of the lies and deceit from out leaders. As such, I write like the common guy I am. These are the same words I use in conversation with anyone who is crazy enough (LOL!) to want to discuss these subjects with me. The really funny thing as to my comments today is that what really set me off was my son-in-law. He is in the middle of harms way right now and we had just had this discussion right before he left again! Someone has to say these things. someone has to not only defend the truth but get it out there for all to see. Someone has to call it as they see it without worrying about backlash or one’s feelings if they don’t agree.
A quick off topic thing here. Please check out Alan Caruba’s “Warning Signs” (http://factsnotfantasy.blogspot.com) sight. He has a great post today as to why he feels Obama is a Communist! Well researched and reasoned and fits in with one of my comments above.
@joetote: You did well! Too many tolerate status quo.
@DrJohn: We have now actively taken sides in this conflict, that being the rebel’s. If they win, WE win. If they lose, WE lose. Should Qaddafi remain in power, he will have bragging rights to claim he defeated not only the rebels, but the U.S. and our allies. He will be looked upon very highly in that part of the world. WE will look inept and ineffectual on the world stage. Hopefully someone has pointed this out to POTUS and he understands that the only outcome in this now is to get rid of Qaddafi. Anything less and this will be perceived as a failure.
@DrJohn:
Yeah, that worked out great. It only took eight + years, hundreds of thousands of US and Iraqi deaths and trillions of US dollars.
You’re correct that Obama’s actions in this situation are reminiscent of George Bush’s, but you have the wrong Bush. Obama, unlike the son, is approaching this closer to how Bush Sr. approached the Gulf War: no unilateral action; build a coalition; include Arab states; have a concrete stated goal; no open -ended US occupation force.
It’s funny, Dr. John, how your original post (and other posts you’ve written over the last week) center upon complaining that Obama is not taking a position, but now that events are under way, you’ve switched to complaining that he’s doing anything at all. It almost seems like anything he does will draw disapproval from you, regardless of how inconsistent your complaints are week to week. Meanwhile, you completely ignore any benefits that may accrue from Obama not rushing blinding into unilateral military action.
I’m curious what you think. With the benefit of hindsight, which path would you choose: US involvement in Libya as it’s actually unfolding (UN Resolution, Arab League involvement, a coalition of forces, no US ground troops) OR the US going it alone last week or two weeks ago, back when all the complaints around here centered on Obama’s lack of action?
I was expecting more “thumbs down” and such as it is like coming into a colony of hornets as a buzzing bee…and I am whatever you say I am…
@Tom: Tom
What I have said repeatedly (and you have mis-characterized) is that Obama votes present and waits for the dust to settle and then takes the noble position. It is his MO.
He could have rallied the UN weeks ago when this would have made a difference. Bombing Gaddafi’s army is not sanctioned by the UN, nor is bombing civilians. Time was of the essence and that is precisely why Obama dithered. And please don’t assert that this is Obama’s coalition. It’s Sarkozy’s coalition.
I still don’t think we belong in a civil war. As far as bombing Gaddafi as a means of protecting “civilians”- who’s next? (hey that would make a good post)
And these aren’t “civilians.” They are armed rebels in an insurrection.
Barry Soetoro:
“So let me be clear: No system of government can or should be imposed by one nation by any other.”
Barry Soetoro:
Gaddafi must “step down from power and leave,”
He is so full of crap.
@ Dr John,
Many on the right have been cheerleading for this war. I think Obama did the wrong thing, and does not have the authority to do this.
another vet, hi, yes this could be one outcome, but what if It is what I think that the next power play will be like EGYPT,as it look like to me, It would not make a diffrence if AMERICA loose her standing because it has already lost it and only a change in GOVERMENT leadership will fix it, bye
@Mr. Irons, I guess you think that less cars in Japan and Gas Turbine generators that will take up the loss of nuclear will add up to more consumption of oil. You can think what you want, link to what you want… but it does not add up. And as to playing the game… your hand is a loser, better fold before someone takes all of your chips. Sheeple!
Time for a fact check before history gets revised again. The Brits, Ausies, Poles, Spanish, Japanese and a host other countries participated in Iraqi Freedom. If they count as a coalition now, they counted as a coalition back then. Can’t have it both ways.
@ilovebeeswarzone: We have to keep in mind that this is the beginning of operations. Most likely they will intensify. Hopefully it will be enough to make a difference. We may have missed our chance. Time will tell. Your reservations are definitely warranted.
Dr. J. How’s that whiplash from kissin Bush’s ass (4200 DEAD 30,000+WOUNDED) to smackin BHO whatever he does.Is it possible like bees you side with the madman? Indefensible in my eyes and the large majority of American citizens liberal or conservative.
Anybody rooting for Gaddafi simply to give BHO a black eye is one sick f—er.
BTW This coalition aint leavin till K leaves the country or is eliminated with extreme prejudice.
SEMPER FI
@DrJohn, #68:
In my opinion, neither was a knee jerk response. As mentioned in post #60, my guess is that what Gates said before the House Committee was an exercise in purposeful misdirection. Deliberate, purposeful bullsh*t, if you like.
It’s surprising that people who automatically disbelieve much of what they hear on mainstream media would have trouble grasping the fact that that same mainstream media might be used in a calculated fashion to confuse a military opponent about your true intentions.
How long do we think it takes to plan and negotiate a coordinated international military action, move all of the necessary pieces into place, and optimize the international political environment in which it will occur?
Maybe Gates should have announced that the imposition of a no fly zone was our obvious intention, and displayed a helpful chart with a complete timetable of upcoming events.
I’m not sure that U.S. military intervention in Libya will turn out to be a good idea. There are lots of ways this could go wrong. There were also lots of ways not intervening could have gone wrong. Since we’ve determined to do so, I find no particular fault at this point with the way the Obama administration has gone about it.
@ Tom:
Evidently you either read-and-don’t-understand, or you simply can’t get ideologically unstuck, as you ignorantly defend indecision on this critically significant situation.
No one has suggested that the U.S. should unitarily invade Libya, but your exaggeration likely triggers a few endorphins that enable your state of happiness in a complicated world. Good for you.
In that ethereal state, you also seem to have concluded that your beloved Obama “actually thinks several moves ahead.” I realize the article I linked to is only one source that evidences your feelings are based on Wishes and Dreams, but perhaps if you start by reading it, then do some more research, perhaps you might give your comments just a little more credibility. You might also find yourself writing comments that are less embarrassing.
I would rather have seen a President take an emphatic stand two weeks ago, “We’re staying out of it, Libyans will have to fend for themselves because I will not send another American into harm’s way,” or “We’re forming a no-fly zone with our European allies, and I don’t care if the Chinese and Russians like it. They can join us, or stay home. We’re helping the Libyan people.”
Either way BE DECISIVE.
@MataHarley:
Unfortunately, for some reason, I show 0 likes and 0 dislikes on my comments for this article.
@Greg: While we all know that Barack Obama lies through his teeth all the time, it would be disappointing to learn that the Secretary of Defense makes a practice of lying to the people of the United States. I do not believe that for one second. I do believe that Obama hid behind Hillary’s pantsuit and let France and England take the lead so that if this adventure doesn’t work, they get the blame. The coalition is Sarkozy’s- it is not Obama’s.
Confuse your military opponent by allowing him a lot more time to complete the efforts you claim to want to stop?
Yeah, that’s really confusing alright, but not to Gaddafi.
With that kind of thinking, you could easily be a Democrat Presidential candidate, Tom.
And let’s see- Obama consulted with France, with England and with the Arab League.
Anyone missing? Oh yeah- the US Congress. Maybe that was to confuse them too.
The boy king strikes again.
“All warfare is based on deception.
“Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.”
Sun Tzu–The Art of War
@Greg: Gates lied, people died?
I am heartened by the fact that, although Gaddafi keeps claiming he has called a ceasefire (twice at least as on now), our coalition looks to the facts on the ground.
Gaddafi’s words of hudna (ceasefire) while tanks and infantry are on the move around Benghazi or, later when he handed out a million guns to supporters, means the tommahawk missiles and no-fly zone is still on.
As to the filthy Arab League.
Once the AL realized it would not be simply jets flying over, but would also include strikes on anti-aircraft guns, they did a 180′ and condemned the coalition’s operation.
Someone got to them and now they refuse to even comment about their 180′.
But You Tube still has it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiliJpH26Vs&feature=player_embedded
No Arab nation participated in Saturday’s military intervention and none are publicly supporting it.
@Greg: If you got the last part of the quote, the ideal deception should have been “stop or our navy off your coast we will kill you”. That would have been a deception that would work. The ” go ahead and kill people because we think a no fly zone is too dangerous” deception didn’t work!
Today almost all nations care about the lives of their own people…..there are a few notable exceptions:
North Korea, Communist China, some African countries and almost every Sharia (Muslim) state.
Golda Meir is disputed to have been the first to say this, but she is attributed to have said either:
Peace will come when the Arabs start to love their children more than they hate us.
OR
Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.
Point is, when a leader doesn’t care about the lives of his own populace he might do anything.
We see Muslim leaders killing their own populace in
Egypt (no, it has not stopped),
Yemen,
Bahrain,
Syria,
Libya and other places.
This is the problem:
http://markhumphrys.com/Bitmaps/palestinian.way.of.war.gif
But I’m not limiting that tactic to just the ones in the picture.
Libya vs the coalition is the exact same.
@Greg:
“We must allow the enemy to gain much time to build his goals in order to make the nation think we are winning.”
Barack Tzu
“The art of of voting present”
Letting people die while the president plays golf is not a strategy Greg. Are you saying that obama was trying to confuse our enemas by seeming negligent? I’m sure he never thought that far ahead.
Funny how he bows to the japanese then does golfing when they are in distress.
Here’s the question.Who’s for kicking Gaddafi’s ass and who’s for kissing it? Dr. J, Ms. Bees?
@rich wheeler: As I stated previously, now that we have gotten militarily involved the end state needs to be Qaddafi gone. Anything less, and he will look victorious and WE will lose. Just out of curiosity with regards to this statement you made: “Anybody rooting for Gaddafi simply to give BHO a black eye is one sick f—er”, do hold the same view on those who were rooting for Bush to fail with Hussein?
A.V.#104 I DO.
The Europeans and the Arab League took the lead in this operation.
Obama rubber stamped their goals.
Neither group has as a goal the killing or removing of Col. Gaddafi.
All they demand is that the civilians be safe.
They are neither for nor against the rebels.
And Obama is having the US military work under their goals.
If one can get away from the inane arguments for a second, just who is going to take over there if Qadafi is tossed out? I haven’t seen much yet other than one blurb somewhere than that the main resistance is a hard core Radical Islamic Sect. Again I repeat, I haven’t seen much more that, so at this time one cannot make an informed decision. With the history of the guy in D.C. and his leanings (One only had to read his book as it was there in his own words! (Quote from Obama’s book: Audacity of Hope: ‘I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.’), one has to assume the worse could happen in this case. (BTW: As I’ve said more than once. One’s words and actions equal guilt by association, etc.
Seriously, I really have not seen anyone ask this question! In theory, this guy dithered while Iran, and other countries shot their own people, yet he’s acting here (after having to be pushed into it I might add). Something just doesn’t add up in my mind here. As I stated earlier, thousands of people have already died there BEFORE the U.N. and POTUS decided to act. After sitting on their hands for 4 weeks, I’m supposed to be impressed? Like I said, something isn’t right here and I sure as hell don’t want some diplomatic B.S. answer. What are the facts and who is it this President is really backing in Libya? Like I said, I have my feelings, but that’s not enough.
@rich wheeler: Are we on a similar page for a change? BTW, I don’t believe DR J or Ms Bees are rooting for Qaddafi.
rich wheeler, you want to know who is kissing ass, in here well obviously it’s you kissing OBAMA ass,
and I explain to you as plain as I could but It’s still too much for you to understand, go eat more fish, good for the brain, more for twisted brain like your’s
Bees You said you supported Gaddafi over rebels as a “lesser of two evils” I read you loud and clear and strongly disagree.
rich wheeler go back to my comment and finish the sentence, not thake a part of it alone, this the side you honour that used those ways to disrupt a comment, If I tell you that I killed
many flyes today, you will just take the two words I kill and make it into your sentences,
but I can tell you that you are a flye to my opinion,
Bees Word games,talking about fish and flys, gets very tiresome.Who do you support in Libya?
@Tom #82:
Did Bush Jr. act unilaterally and not build a coalition of willing nations and partners? Really?!
@Wordsmith:
That’s what I was thinking, too.
Bush sr.
Not Bush jr.
Um, probably the wrong place to bring this up, but I can no longer log in.
I know there were some voting irregularities on the ”Like/Dislike today (or yesterday, but somehow I was logged out and now my password doesn’t work and even my attempt to get a reminder or new password doesn’t work, either!
Weird.
I’m having the same problem nanG
@Zac:
I’m going to be patient.
Usually these thing are worked out by those who understand computers far better than I ever will.
I just didn’t know if anybody here knew about the log in problem.
I am also a two finger typist. I was wondering if anyone else had a problem to. Great minds think alike!
@Wordsmith:
That is true. Forgive my lack of precision. They were both, technically speaking, coalitions. There are large and important differences between the two that goes to my point though. The Iraq War coalition was, in terms for manpower, esentionally two nations, the US and Great Britain, with negligible Arab involvement or support. As for the cost in lives, it was similarly skewed toward one member of the coalition, with approximately 4400 out of 4700 dead, Americans. Perhaps I should have said the costs were unilateral. The Gulf War saw a much different level of involvement, particularly in terms of Arab nations, with Saudi Arabia and Egypt both contributing tens of thousands of men to the effort, not to mention most of the tab being picked up by Persian Gulf States. So I would content that while both wars were undertaken under the banner of collations, the collations themselves were vastly different, as was the resulting price bore by the US in each instance.
@Tom: Good comment. Thanks for clarifying.
@Nan G:
Wish I could help you but I have no idea what the problem is. Hopefully Curt or someone else can solve your issue.
@Wordsmith:
For me the problem has disappeared.
Thanks (to whoever fixed it) for that.
Sorry about that Nan…it was a conflict with a plugin.
In a twisted way this latest news is funny:
Reuters is reporting that the Arab League is complaining about the bombardment over the no-fly zone. Arab League: You’re too effective!
rich wheeler it’s a game for you, but I don’t play, I support the less dangerous man to hurt our AMERICA,
now If you want to ask if I like him, that is another question, I hear of what is written and it doesn’t look good for him, but I don’t mix in other COUNTRYS business, or LEADER’S profile as long as they don’t hurt my COUNTRY, NOW, do I care about people being abuse, yes I do, but It’s not my business to interfere,
if what I’d like to do could bring worse leader, as we see around those COUNTRYS, there is a push by radicalist to oust the POWERED GOVERNMENTS ALL OVER THE WORLD, AND THEY ARE NOT FOR GOOD CHANGE BUT EVEN WORSE MUCH WORSE, AND THE UN IS FAVORABLE TO A WORLD GOVERNMENT AND SYMPATHISE UNDER THE NAME OF HUMAN RIGHTS, BUT FOR A REAL PURPOSE TO RULE OVER THE WORLD AND DISTRIBUTE THE WEALTH WHERE THEY INTEND TO PROFIT,
SO THIS IS BIGGER THAN YOU AND ME AND GADDAFI, WHAT EVER MONSTER HE CAN BE.
@Greg:
I cannot believe you are serious in quoting an ancient text on fighting and war, and trying to link Obama to it.
Barack Obama, 2002:
Sounds eerily like Ghaddafi, no? He was against war in Iraq. He felt economic sanctions and a No-fly zone would be sufficient to contain Saddam. Fine. Although I disagreed, I could see his point. And yet, after weeks of his dithering around, amidst pressure from the European nations to enjoin them in action against Ghaddafi, you wish to attribute his indecisiveness to following advice from an ancient text? Please! He took weeks to get around to the same point he was at with Iraq. Why?
@rich wheeler:
RW, that is an asinine thing to say. Show me one comment on here by anyone who wishes for failure by us against Ghaddafi, simply to show Obama as being inept.
BTW, I seem to remember quite a few liberals wishing for failure, even to the point to cozying up with Saddam prior to us going into Iraq, and hoping for a “black eye” for Bush. Not saying that two wrongs make a right. I just haven’t seen anyone here, or anywhere, hoping Ghaddafi wins because they are against Obama.
I don’t believe it was word games, RW, but rather, it was her trying at an analogy of what your comments were in relation to hers. Whether or not it gets tiresome for you is of little consequence. If you don’t understand what she has posted, fine, then don’t comment on it. Just don’t disparage someone because of it.
@rich wheeler: This isn’t nearly as much about Gaddafi as it is about that blindingly hypocritical a-hole in the White House.
We can’t use military power to solve humanitarian problems?
Remember that, Rich? How about this?
And it says nothing but the very worst for anyone who would dare defend this action and this scum sucking Alinskyite after his incessant blathering about how evil everything Bush did was.
Why Gaddafi? Because he’s a cheap political score. He’s low lying fruit. It IS about oil.
DR. J . I’m sure you’ve noted most of the F.A. readers are in support of this action.
It’s been apparant for some time your personal hatred of BHO has absolutely been the driving force behind most all your vitriolic commentary here and imho has severely weakened your ability to reason.
You’ve taken presidential bashing to a level beyond the Bush bashers.Not an easy task.
@rich wheeler:
I believe you are misinterpreting what you read on here. Many of us conservatives are consistent in regards to taking action in Libya, and what we have done in Iraq. What we are doing isn’t in dispute.
What is in dispute is Obama saying one thing, against a Republican, and then committing similar action himself. What is in dispute is Obama taking weeks to commit to any action, instead of being decisive about it. What is in dispute is Obama, in those weeks of inaction, allowing the people rebelling against Ghaddafi to lose much of the ground they had gained, even to the point where the actions now may be too late to accomplish Obama’s stated goals for U.S. involvement.
Now, if Obama had led from the fore, and stated what they have weeks ago, I wouldn’t have had much to say about it, other than the comparison of Obama on Iraq and his turnaround to Libya.
He is inconsistent, hypocritical, and generally untrustworthy to lead the U.S., either economically or in world affairs.
@rich wheeler: Fine, Rich. Duck the issue. It could not possibly be more obvious. If they kill Gaddafi all the bad buys in the Middle East are going to know that Obama could kill them at any time. Let’s wait and watch how this plays out in the Middle East as the civilian toll rises.
John Galt Your points re a reasonable debate over time taken to initiate action are valid and understood. DR. J is simply against taking this madman out.Hope he doesn’t start touting Gaddafi’s bogus “civilian casualty claims”soon to appear.
Who were the liberals “cozying up to Saddam” pre Iraq invasion.If true I say shame on them.
Re Ms Bees A simple ? “for or against Gaddafi”.No response.
@johngalt:
Great answers, JohnGalt.
I think a bit of budgetary history is also relevant.
The Northern ans Southern No-Fly Zones in Iraq each required 3 dozen sorties PER DAY by our air forces.
Each sortie cost taxpayers $500,000.
Yes, 1/2 million dollars EACH.
So every day ”containing Saddam” cost us $18 million.
And we had kept that up for 12 years when we finally took other action (shock and awe) against Saddam.
365 days for 12 years is 4,380 days.
4380 times $18 million is $78,840,000,000.
78 Billion with no end in sight.
And the then breaking stories about how Saddam was playing the ”oil for food” scandal to enrich himself while his people starved were only going to be getting worse.
Saddam was not really contained.
He just looked contained if you didn’t look closely.
@blast:
Well ain’t that a head in the sand reaction to be given facts versus your opinions.
From the cushy sweet source of information for most Leftists:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42191519/ns/business-oil_and_energy/
“A drag on energy costs” translates to higher costs in business speak and could rise or linger at uncomfortably high rates longer than consummers, (Business, Individual, Government Entities) would want to pay at.
Oh and:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/oil_prices
Enjoys.
And yes, I’ve seen your LNG comments, but my own articles cover its overall costs as well as it’s part of the Gasoil markets due to how LNG is collected or refined from other sources. Burning sulfur gas will ruin a natural gas (which you’re confusing with petrol) turbines, and even natural gas deposits have sulfur in them making them caustic to engines. It costs time, energy and money to refine the products, bub. And Japan has to import far more than you realize, and that supply they have to import means a decline in supply to other Nations making a competetive bid towards that same fuel purchase.
In other words, a war for oil… won’t that be inconvenient talking points for the left? LOL But it’s the only explanation for rationalizing intervention in Libya, and ignoring Iran, Yemen, Tunesia, Somalia, and (from historical perspective) Rwanda, etal. Then again, doesn’t explain Egypt and Honduras, does it?
@rich wheeler: Here’s how I feel, Rich. Now let me be clear: I suffer no illusions about Gaddafi. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. The world, and the people, would be better off without him. But I also know that Gaddafi poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history.
@Nan G:
Thank you for the numbers Nan. Too many liberals decry the cost of the military action in Iraq, yet forget that we were already spending billions there while Saddam was comfortably sitting in one of his palaces, having his people commit atrocities against other Iraqi citizens and taking the aid meant for them, for himself.
@rich wheeler:
Where does he state that? Anywhere? Show me the quote.
What I have gotten from Dr. J’s article, and his posts on this topic, is that Obama is hypocritical, and the liberals and MSM are enabling him to act just as he has. The closest I can see Dr.J state anything akin to what you claim is when he states that it’s “too late”, and that is in regards to Obama taking so long to act that Ghaddafi has all but re-taken the entire country back.
@MataHarley:
Or Yemen, or Saudi Arabia, or Bharain, or……………………..
Johngalt, I think he’s refering to post 63 I believe with John pointing out the whole bulllarcky of the UN and how Gaddafi will stay either alive or back into power as a, “paper tiger” by UN meddling in Nations.
J.G. In #133 Dr J talks of containment.Sound familiar?
@Mr. Irons:
That is still a far cry from RW’s assertion that “DR. J is simply against taking this madman out.”
It is simply an opinion that the result of our action there won’t make one bit of difference in who is leading what country over there.
@rich wheeler: Rich
You can’t solve humanitarian problems with US military power. Genocide is not good enough a reason for the US to be involved militarily.
@rich wheeler:
You mean this?
Kinda similar to this, right?
That last is from BHO in 2002. Is it how Dr. J really feels? Or is it sarcasm pointing out BHO’s hypocrisy?
Not to mention the fact that you just noted a comment by Dr. J AFTER you made your comment about him being against taking him out, and using that to support your assertion from before. Very, very weak argument for your case, RW.
@johngalt:
Actually, given History as a sort of measuring stick (cough)Iran(cough) our actions now may only encourage a temporary ally in the Rebel forces that may ultimately mutate into a hostile Nation against the EU and USA. The whole Middle East is gripped with social disorder and weakened borders, we could be seeing the onstart of a whole new series of Nations being created if certain factions achive their interests (aka Iran’s power growth desires.)
@rich wheeler: Hey Rich- Any guesses about 139?
@Mr. Irons: Indeed. The devil you know. The Saudi Royals are the plug on the very worst of explosive situations.
@rich wheeler: Rich
I have been feeding you Barack Obama’s own words and you just ate them up. That’s really got to burn. I hope that none of this burns with more painful intensity than in the gut of one stinking lying current US President.
You CANNOT support this action and have voted for Obama unless you are a total imbecile.
uh… has something happened overnight in the beltway I’m not familiar with?
Is is not Hillary Clinton who was begging for the no fly zone? Is is not Obama, as the current CiC, who agreed to participate in the no fly zone? Was it not the Bush holdover Defense Sec’y Gates who actually cautioned against this no fly zone?
What’s this “conservative” crap line of BS, kemosabi? The war mongering, war for oil, is now in your party’s court.
@MataHarley: Gates said that an NFZ was an “act of war” and even proposing it was “loose talk.”
Today we also learn that Democrats think tanks fly and that the Gaddafi compound flies as well.
Much doubletalk going on. BHO says “Gadaffi must go”
RW supports this action to remove a genocidal maniac.
Dr J does not support this action for a variety of reasons given.
Pretty simple really.
Would agree Saudi Royals are an important ally but the treatment of their people(at least the males) is a hell of alot better than Gadaffi or Mubarek’s treatment of their populace.
LOL, drj! Yup… thought the same about tanks and palace/compounds. Supposedly the no fly zone was to prevent the Gadfly from killing his own people, and not taking sides. So much for that theory….
INRE the tanks, it’s possible they were equipped with anti-aircraft capabilities, in which case were fair game for safety of the coalition aircraft. But the compound??
Libya is no Iraq, where Saddam was invading neighbors (Kuwait), then turned his subterfuge on the US by allying with terrorist groups and having a hand in 1993 Somalia. Then there’s his long relationship with Zawahiri. Gaddafi is a thug, but if we are to take out all despot thugs, where do we draw the line?
@rich wheeler:
“RW supports this action to remove a genocidal maniac.”
How can you explain your support of a guy who said doing so was wrong? You voted for the guy who said he would NOT do this and now you’re givi