Is this supposed to be some kind of October surprise? First the Obama camp decides to trump up stories of foreign money coming into Republican coffers….yawn. Now they (oh wait, it was wikileaks, not the Democrats…..yeaaaaah) get the Iraq war back into the news.
My question….what did Obama know and when did he know it?
A frago is a “fragmentary order” which summarises a complex requirement. This one, issued in June 2004, about a year after the invasion of Iraq, orders coalition troops not to investigate any breach of the laws of armed conflict, such as the abuse of detainees, unless it directly involves members of the coalition. Where the alleged abuse is committed by Iraqi on Iraqi, “only an initial report will be made … No further investigation will be required unless directed by HQ”
~~~Numerous logs show individual members of the coalition making genuine attempts to stop the abuse. Since 2006 the coalition has had military transition teams, known as Mitts, working alongside Iraqi military units; and police transition teams, PTTs, embedded with local police. These teams are recorded on multiple occasions making unannounced spot checks at Iraqi security bases and finding torture in progress. “Captain Walker and 1st Lieutenant Ziemba … caught Captain Hassan and Sgt Alaa by surprise … In the office there was what appeared to be a battery with open ended wires … Before entering the office, Capt Walker and 1Lt Siemba heard what sounded like an individual being hit and moaning. The detainee was sitting in the centre of the room sobbing. They stopped the suspected abuse.”
Since June of 2004, the date Iraq became a sovereign nation, the US no longer controlled the security forces so was not obligated to police them. Many news organizations and lefty’s are writing that we looked the other way but the leaked documents show the opposite. Our forces intervened when discovered and reported them.
American soldiers, however, often intervened. During a visit to a police unit in Ramadi, an American soldier entered a cell after hearing screams and found two badly dehydrated detainees with bruises on their bodies. He had them transferred out of Iraqi custody.
In August 2006, an American sergeant in Ramadi heard whipping noises in a military police station and walked in on an Iraqi lieutenant using an electrical cable to slash the bottom of a detainee’s feet. The American stopped him, but later he found the same Iraqi officer whipping a detainee’s back.Read the Document »
One beaten detainee said in 2005 that “when the Marines finally took him, he was treated very well, and he was thankful and happy to see them.”
The same article does note however that the documents are disturbing, not just because of the violence, but because the security forces are central to Obama’s plan to abandon Iraq.
I imagine the decades of Saddam madness helped create this situation in which violence is used routinely by the Iraqi’s but to me this news actually stresses the need for us to remain there, if they allow us to. A violent society cannot be fixed over night, or in a few years. It’s a slow process and we have a duty to help that process along. We rightly took out Saddam and saw the Iraqi’s through to freedom…now let us finish the job.
Allah on the possible outcome:
According to the Guardian, incidents of abuse are recorded in the documents as recently as last December, so the problem can’t be dismissed as some long-solved remnant of Iraq’s darkest days in 2006. Two, and more importantly: If this news breaks big in Iraq, god only knows what it’s going to do to the political situation there. The Sunnis are already disenchanted, and Maliki — who, as PM, presumably presided during most of the abuse incidents described in the documents — is cuddling up to Iran and Sadr. (In fact, as noted at that last link, Sadr reportedly wants control of Iraq’s defense ministry. Just the man we need to get Iraqi troops to clean up their act.) Throw this grenade about government security forces using Saddam tactics into the mix and … what now? Maybe, maybe, it’ll make Maliki so toxic that the Kurds will side with Allawi instead of him to form a government. That would be good for the country insofar as it would isolate the Sadrists and bring the Sunnis into the government as part of a secularist, multi-sectarian coalition. But that’s the best possible outcome. I don’t want to think about the worst one.
I tell you what the worst will be, and it will be the fault of wikileaks. All out chaos and the blood will be on their hands.
“We know terrorist organizations have been mining the leaked Afghan documents for information to use against us and this Iraq leak is more than four times as large. By disclosing such sensitive information, WikiLeaks continues to put at risk the lives of our troops, their coalition partners and those Iraqis and Afghans working with us,” Lapan said in a statement.
~~~He [Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrel] said much of the material has been well-chronicled in news, books and films so doesn’t provide any new understanding about Iraq, but it does expose troops to future vulnerabilities.
“We know our enemies will mine this information looking for insights into how we operate, cultivate sources, and react in combat situations, even the capability of our equipment. This security breach could very well get our troops and those they are fighting with killed,” Morrell said.
As for this being a October surprise….come on
People are more worried about finding a job and the economy. If Obama and company haven’t figured this out yet they never will.
UPDATE
During the administration of President George W. Bush, critics charged that the White House had exaggerated Iran’s role to deflect criticism of its handling of the war and build support for a tough policy toward Iran, including the possibility of military action.
But the field reports disclosed by WikiLeaks, which were never intended to be made public, underscore the seriousness with which Iran’s role has been seen by the American military.
No sh*t sherlock.
And a big heh from Rusty Shackleford:
And what was the US supposed to do if they investigated claims that the Iraqi government tortured its citizens? Invade? Yeah, I bet Julian Assange, the hysterical Left, and their Islamist allies would love that.
It’s the problem with America haters like Assange, Chomsky, and Osama bin Laden: it’s a worldview where America is always in the wrong, no matter what we do.
When we act, it’s evidence of US Imperialism. When we don’t act, it’s evidence of the US not caring about brown people.
We’re damned if we do, we’re damned if we don’t.
Which makes their underlying theory of cause and effect not a theory at all. First because it’s not falsifiable. Second, because all affects are attributed to the same cause.
America bad mmmmmkay.
Wikileaks is a small cabal of people who, in their own site description, “Publishes and comments on leaked documents alleging government and corporate misconduct.”
In reality, what they are is a like-minded gathering of hardcore Leftists who see their greatest enemies and threats as the American military and intelligence coupled with free market capitalism.
For instance, when they say they expose documents on “government abuse,” what they mean — almost exclusively in practice — is that they fish for folks to send them secret operational documents potentially damaging to the US military and intelligence. They create entire waves of news cycles. The intent is to damage military ops in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere. The reality is that they get people killed. Names of Afghans and Iraqis who have cooperated with us have been exposed publicly — and they have been snuffed out by al-Qaeda and other like-minded enemies. Usually quite gruesomely.
When they say they expose leaked documents on “corporate misconduct,” what they mean is that they do so for documents that are seen to be damaging to the concept of free-market capitalism — the basis of our economy — for the purposes of presenting central governmental control of the economy, redistribution of wealth, and fomenting class warfare. They see themselves in this sense as some modern version of Robin Hood.
Notice that they do not seek or publish secret documents about or from within, say, the Iranian regime’s nuclear weapons program or its slaughter of its own citizens in the streets — especially since last year. No, that’s because the enemy, for them, is America. America and its free market economy is the real enemy — of mankind.
More here.
See author page
Curt this is the sickest and most criminal strategy of the Left so far; I wonder how Leftists in the military will view our traitors if these facts check out. Who are you loyal too, America or the Leftist Party Line?
Are you OK with sacrificing American lives to advance Obama’s Socialist agenda?
Is International Socialism worth the Lives of American patriots and the lives of our allies?
These are question every American Liberal better be ready to ask themselves
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This computer was around when Jesus was a cowboy on the plains of Jericho
The new Iraq Constitution put Sharia over any other law.
If a law seemed to disagree with Sharia it could be ignored.
Therefore mistreatment of other Iraqis should have been predicted as a normal thing.
Shiites and Sunnis look upon one another as apostates, worthy of death.
All you had to do was look at the photos of the inside of the Mosque after Muqtada al Sadr and his men fled it to see that his opponents were treated as less than human.
And their ”crime” was belonging to the ”wrong” sect of Islam.
Worse treatment is held out against any Iraqi who dares convert to Christianity.
One SP/4 Bradley Manning, now reduced in rank to PFC due to an unrelated disciplinary action, formerly US Army Intelligence, 2nd BCT, 10th Mountain Div., has been arrested and charged with the unauthorized use and disclosure of U.S. classified information. He is presently pending Article 32, UCMJ, proceedings.(He quite frankly ain’t going anywhere anytime soon)
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That’s the Sunday School version on Manning and additional charges can be forthcoming. Army CID has a witness. Manning allegedly leaked over 260,000 Diplomatic Cables to Wikileaks.
If it was up to me, he would be tried for Treason at Time of War and that carries a death sentence. The Army no longer has Hanging or Firing Squad as a method but I favor an exception in this case. Lethal Injection is now the rule
The damage done is more Political than National Security as cables carry only snippets of information but the damage done to the US as an Ally can be quite large as the names of Confidential Informants, both Iraqi and Afghanistani could be disclosed which would place
informants and their Families at very high risk for grim consequences. Pending release of the info and the outcome of the Article 32, this young man will be held and held responsible for his actions. I do not consider him a Soldier, he is a Detainee/Prisoner.
But let’s not forget all the good that was done, 4 women opened a coffee shop. The fact that 5000 of our military died and 25000 were maimed seems to be acceptable to some, but not to all of us. Skookum how does socialism and bank bailouts fit together ? Are the capitalist of Wall Street really card carrying commies? Is this the World Domination by Jewish Bankers that the right has been warning us about for decades ? And Nan G let’s remember that most Christians about 500000 have fled Iraq and forced to live as refugees without work papers in Arab countries. BUT THE SURGE WORKED !! And any Iraqi now placed in danger by the Wikileaks will be welcomed by the rightwing to come and live here in the USA. The rightwing will be as welcoming to them as they were to all who got left behind to the commies in the 70s
smalll-letter-drive-by-john-ryan… take your meds. You’re incoherent, dude. Your comment is like trying to convince someone you know the alphabet when you recognize the letters d, u, m, b, a, s, and s.
@ Nan G, you are correct regarding the Iraqi Constitution and it is up to the Iraqi’s to deal with their choices and consequences as they are now a sovereign Nation. Religious tolerance only applies to Islam there if you could call it such. The sects there have been committing murder and mayhem for centuries within the Islamic versions of Sunni and Shia and the Kurds are considered fair game for persecution by the rest.
There are Tribal issues as well. Kinda like the Iraqi version of the Hatfields and McCoys.
Well, Wikileaks is claiming those American hikers/spies were NOT in Iran when they were nabbed more than a year ago.
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8111508/hikers-not-in-iran-when-nabbed-wikileaks
Iran will begin trying them for espionage on November 6.
I guess doing it right the first time doesn’t help where Iran is concerned.
@Old Trooper 2: @Old Trooper 2:
They said they would redact information that would identify people who cooperated with the Coalition, but The Guardian already has one document up that has this:
“At 160920C FEB 09, PTT 6 was informed by [Name withheld] the (removed by Dave E. but visible at the link) District IP OIC, of alleged detainee abuse at the Husaybah IP station.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/iraq/warlogs/84A1A9AC-FAED-91C8-DDF6752E521ADDF9
Do you think the abusers will be able to figure out who that Officer in Charge was? I’m certain they can. If he’s killed because of this, I want them to charge Manning as an accomplice to murder.
@ Dave E., at this point I have no doubt that redacted for publication and raw info can be sent to different sources and Intelligence Agencies can connect the dots. What you see on the Net and what Foreign Intell Services can obtain through a backdoor are two different things.
At this point I doubt if Wikileaks can be trusted to keep Names, Sources, Locations, Time/Dates confidential. They have an interest in revealing “embarassing/criminal activity” info so confidentiality is not to be assumed in this case. There will be some very grim consequences forthcoming from this release of Classified Information.
PFC Manning will be eventually facing UCMJ charges for the release of Classified Information. He can be charged with additional offenses if the situation merits them. The initial Charges can be only Round One.
@ John ryan, thanks for your estimate of the situation. I’m sure that it will go through the proper channels and end up in a warehouse for dissemination to a triple cut shredder.
The is the same post John Ryan posted two or three times before. he is the Chatty Cathy doll. Just pull that string and he repeats his phrases over and over!
Randy, small-letter-john-ryan does say the same things over and over. We’ve an archive full of such here at FA. He occasionally uses the more updated lib/prog sentence construction and talking points to give it a different flavor. But you have to remember, one can’t set too high of expectations from amoebae.
I might add that we nicknamed the FA village idiot, john ryan, “drive by johnnie ryan”. He rarely sticks around after one comment. Like a New Yorker, walking their dog without their trusty plastic bag, he just dumps, and leaves.
When I worked in the Intel section at MNFI, It would have been very difficult to get this information out. I am not sure how he did this.
@ Randy, Two Words, Flash Drive. Several could be used for this on a Night shift. I had a J-3 Officer that told me that if He caught anyone with a flash drive that the offender would wear it as a suppository while waiting for “show and tell” on that device. No one ever called his bluff.
We need to hang some of these leakers as traitors. Nothing else will stop it. Just a total disgrace.
Anything to denigrate the military and ‘get’ Bush.
The part of the leaked documents which I consider the most important is not the unsurprising revelation of lack of tender treatment by Iraqi forces of insurgent detainees. It is the degree to which Iran was allied with Iraqi Shiites in (1) their violent actions against both Sunnis and Americans and (2) reinforcing the view of Americans as occupiers, as opposed to liberators.
I think, as time goes by, our view of what happened and the harm to value ratio of the US military action in Iraq becomes much clearer. Yes, we were viewed favorably, as liberators, but so viewed not by “Iraqis” but by Shiites and Kurds, who, in effect, said, thank you very much and now please leave. The problem was that the Sunnis did not view us as liberators, but rather as invaders, taking away their power and internal security. Thank goodness for Al Qaida in Iraq, which showed the Sunnis that Islamic outsiders can be even worse than Americans, and that their own future depended upon American protection of the Sunnis from the wrath of the Shiites.
Getting back to Iran and wikileaks, it’s so ironic that, between Iraq and Iran, the latter was, by far, the greater threat with respect to development of nuclear weapons, and the most important impact of the Iraq war was to strengthen the hand of Iran. Firstly, the Iraq war demonstrated the limits of US military power. US invasion of Iran was a credible threat, before 2003, but this threat was destroyed by the 7 year aftermath. Secondly, the Iraq war removed Iran’s number one enemy — recall that Reagan and Saddam were allies in a hot then cold war against Iran. Thirdly, the Iraq war established an alliance between Iran and Iraqi Shiites (the now and future rulers of Iraq) which doubtless still exists, on some levels, and is likely to strengthen, as the US stands down.
The greatest hope for containing Iran’s nuclear ambitions is an internal Iranian revolution. Obama was almost successful in fomenting such a revolution; though it was promptly squashed, the anti-Mullah feelings remain strong, and truly effective sanctions regimes may work to revive and strengthen the movement to oust the clerics.
I can’t imagine, that given the chance for a do over, any US President would choose to proceed with the Iraq invasion of March, 2003.
A quick word in defense of John Ryan’s hit and run tactics. He’s basically a one man guerilla opposition, fighting a whole army. He uses appropriate tactics in such a situation. A wise Flopping Aces contributor correctly noted that “politics is war” (or at least can be war). One person doesn’t wage successful war against an entire army by standing in place and being slaughtered by overwhelming numbers of opposition soldiers. Try this, some time, on a liberal blog, and see how much fun you have.
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA
I hope that you do begin to hang these leakers. I hope you turn this into an explicit fascist state in which anyone who objects to official national policy or attacks the national character or suggests that there is anything wrong with anything that the ascendant American people ever decide to manifest as their divine will is first denounced as a traitor (this step has already been carried out) and then arrested, at the very least. And I hope you continue to denounce everyone else as fascists while doing so. This national narrative will not be complete until you have full control over all engines of the state and are thus able to make manifest the collective will of the Judeo-Christian people, who must always be in triumph, who have never made mistakes, whose every alleged crime is merely an indication that you have been too lax on those who would hold that it is even possible for this tribe to commit a crime. You people – the bloggers especially, who are always winning, and the commenters and readers who watch them win and who get to experience some of that triumph by proxy – you are grand specimens of the human race. I wish I could give all of you trophies, but there are only so many trophies to give.
@ Barrett Brown, People are not just taken out and hanged, at least not in the US. There will be due process and the UCMJ demands a mandatory review before a sentence is imposed. More just and objective than in any Civilian Court.
You posted a very high minded dissertation based upon your perspective on this issue. I posted facts and the investigation is ongoing. After having carefully read your posting, I’m curious…What is your point? Who are you indicting here?
As Military Service in the US is 100% voluntary and PFC Manning enlisted by choice, took an Oath and served where he was sent, then chose to violate that Oath, where is your point? He was not Conscripted and knew the penalties for betraying that Oath as well as the “Ground Rules” or Laws. All Military is held to the same standards. He knew exactly what he was doing and pursued it with premeditation, knowing full well what the consequences would be.
Barret Brown: hi, YES, THANK GOD for the RIGHT BLOGGERS OF THE RIGHT,
WHO don’t waste their times winning, because they deal with reality and facts;
giving their readers the right PICTURE of events and corruption. bye SR
OLD TROOPER 2: hi, thank you for explaining what is involved in his situation,
as you are more able to do it than us CIVILIENS bye
Openid: hi, I would add to your 16, that’s why they come here, they have more fun
in insulting the group, than staying among their own boring groups,
and in the same time, they are learning what intelligence is for.
bye
Am with OT2, Manning is firing squad material.
So, Wikileaks has uncovered the fact that the Iraqis had all kinds of WMDs.
For years after the Bush White House’s staunchest defenders were starting to give up on the idea that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Wikileaks’ newly-released Iraq war documents reveal, U.S. troops continued to find chemical weapons labs, encounter insurgent specialists in toxins, and uncover weapons of mass destruction!
In August 2004, for instance, American forces surreptitiously purchased what they believed to be containers of liquid sulfur mustard, a toxic “blister agent” used as a chemical weapon since World War I. The troops tested the liquid, and “reported two positive results for blister.” The chemical was then “triple-sealed and transported to a secure site” outside their base.
Three months later, in northern Iraq, U.S. scouts went to look in on a “chemical weapons” complex. “One of the bunkers has been tampered with,” they write. “The integrity of the seal [around the complex] appears intact, but it seems someone is interesting in trying to get into the bunkers.”
Meanwhile, the second battle of Fallujah was raging in Anbar province. In the southeastern corner of the city, American forces came across a “house with a chemical lab … substances found are similar to ones (in lesser quantities located a previous chemical lab.” The following day, there’s a call in another part of the city for explosive experts to dispose of a “chemical cache.”
Nearly three years later, American troops were still finding WMD in the region. An armored Buffalo vehicle unearthed a cache of artillery shells “that was covered by sacks and leaves under an Iraqi Community Watch checkpoint. “The 155mm rounds are filled with an unknown liquid, and several of which are leaking a black tar-like substance.” Initial tests were inconclusive. But later, “the rounds tested positive for mustard.”
Even late in the war, WMDs were still being unearthed.
In the summer of 2008, according to one Wikileaked report, American troops found at least 10 rounds that tested positive for chemical agents.
January 2006 war log claims that “neuroparalytic” chemical weapons were smuggled in from Iran.
That same month, then “chemical weapons specialists” were apprehended in Balad.
These “foreigners” were there specifically “to support the chemical weapons operations.” The following month, an intelligence report refers to a “chemical weapons expert” that “provided assistance with the gas weapons.”
Read More http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/10/wikileaks-show-wmd-hunt-continued-in-iraq-with-surprising-results/#ixzz13DBbhoGg
of course the messenger is to blame, that only makes sense.
Mata Note: Restored from trash bin, and added because it had additional links/material to other versions.
WikiLeaks releases secret Iraq file
Al Jazeera accesses 400,000 secret US military documents, which reveal the inside story of the Iraq war.
http://english.aljazeera.net/secretiraqfiles/2010/10/2010102217631317837.html
…snip… see duplicate data/post below
As if this was not to be expected?
This is Classified Information that will serve as a propaganda tool. Actions taken by Iraqi Military/Police personnel; fall within the jurisdiction of Iraqi Courts. Refer to the Status of Forces Agreement for details.
http://media.mcclatchydc.com/smedia/2008/11/25/17/SOFA-official.source.prod_affiliate.91.pdf
@ John ryan, are You the Messenger or just the Parrot that repeats what you heard?
If Manning is the Messenger, his actions are subject to the UCMJ, under the “conditions of his employment”. Would you like to take credit for the release of this Classified Info as well or it;s consequences? I reckon that in your mind that makes you a Patriot.
@John ryan:
Your country is being vindicated by information coming out of some of the leaked material @Nan G: although I doubt that was Mannings goal. You have a problem with that? Need we even ask? 🙄
@ John ryan, Here’s Your Messenger…
http://english.aljazeera.net/secretiraqfiles/2010/10/2010102217631317837.html
WikiLeaks releases secret Iraq file
Al Jazeera accesses 400,000 secret US military documents, which reveal the inside story of the Iraq war
@Missy: NanG, I don’t know what I did to mess up that post, I meant to direct john ryan to your post, my questions were for him. It was an accident on my part that your name is stuck in the middle of it. Sorry.