12 Sep

Terror Strikes India on 9/11….01

                                       

While checking out comments on Peter Feaver’s Reflections on 9/11 post, this commenter‘s link caught my eye (she seems to be “spamming/promoting” her post in comment sections on news sites). It’s an interesting piece from the perspective of an Indian woman who chose writing as a profession, came to the U.S. for her master’s degree, married and settled in California. At the time of 9/11/01, she was a citizen of India and describes what she felt at the time; and she describes her reaction to the debate we’re having, 9 years later (since I am not blockquoting this part, please go to Mansi Bhatia’s blog to read her description of how she experienced the 9/11 attacks while living in India):

The implications of the terrorist attack on the world’s greatest superpower were far reaching — more than the masterminds behind this attack, could ever think of.

I’ve witnessed eight anniversaries in the U.S. since and the memories are still as vivid, the pain still as fresh.

Only now, we’re turning against each other with more hatred and greater passion.

This country is seeing more intolerance, more skepticism, and more unrest. We’re letting the terrorists finally achieve what they set out to do on September 11, 2001. We’re helping move their agenda forward by letting that terror live inside us.

Our first instinct then, as it is now, was to look out for our own. To preserve what we held dear to our hearts. To do what served our self-interest best.

But not at the price of democracy. And never by putting humanity on the line.

Sitting halfway across the world, it was those images, those stories of men, women, children and families that struck a chord in everyone’s hearts … I didn’t know anyone personally but I found myself crying at the unnecessary tragedy that had introduced itself into these people’s lives.

And today, sitting in the country where it all happened, I find myself shaking my head at the unnecessary debates about a mosque being built on Ground Zero. My mind doesn’t even know how to react to plans of burning the Quran.

I hear the constant chatter about how fearful we are, or should be. I read the tweets, the headlines, the barrage of messages that tell us to never forget 9/11.

We won’t. We can’t.

What happened this day nine years ago will be etched forever in the hearts and minds of everyone who witnessed it, no matter what part of the world they were in.

But it was the past. And we have the power to choose the future.

Mansi’s an American now (6 years, I believe). The rest of her post has the typical multiculturalist COEXIST sentiment that conservatives tend to derisively ridicule as naïveté.

I welcome FA readers to share their personal experience on that black Tuesday morn; and where their thoughts are at 9 years later.

As an aside, some other opinions carried in Indian mainstream news media:

In the Daily News & Analysis paper, Sanjeev Nayar compares Ground Zero and the Babri Masjid site in Ayodhya, in India, to express support for both the American opposition to an Islamic center near the 9/11 site and Hindu claims to the site of a mosque that they believe once housed a temple marking the birthplace of the god Ram. (The Babri mosque was razed by militant Hindu groups in 1992, sparking sectarian riots in the country, particularly in Mumbai.)

“One hundred years from now Americans will only see the mosque, and the Twin Towers will be distant memory. Two hundred years later, Americans might doubt if the Twin Towers ever existed,” wrote Mr. Nayyar on Thursday. “Babar’s general similarly attempted to rewrite history by destroying the Ram Temple at Ayodhya. If the temple had existed, no Indian court or political party would have doubt (sic) the existence of Sri Ram!”

In the Indian Express, op-ed writer Amulya Ganguli says that “it doesn’t take a suicide attack on a city to generate Islamophobia,” noting that a plan to build a small mosque in a Delhi neighborhood was recently abandoned after local residents complained.

In the case of the razing of the Babri mosque at Ayodhya in 1992, the “immediate provocation” was almost half a millenium earlier, he said Thursday.

“What is evident, therefore, is that Muslim-baiters need just an excuse for their targeting of the minority community and their places of worship,” writes Mr. Ganguy. “It does not matter if an act of violence had taken place on September 11, 2001, or five centuries earlier in 1528. The guilt of the Muslims is irredeemable.”

Indian security expert B. Raman, writing in the Sri Lanka Guardian, said the world needs to ponder how it can convince “Muslim youth that we are seeking to counter terrorism and not Islam?”

“Al Qaeda has not only had a geographic spread. It has also had an ethnic spread by exploiting the feelings of Islamic solidarity and the victim complex of the Muslims of the world,” wrote Mr. Raman. “By projecting the counter-terrorism campaigns of different countries as a war against Islam and not a fight against terrorism, it has been able to draw the support of Muslims belonging to different ethnic groups and of different nationalities.”

Ajit Ranade, in the Mumbai Mirror tabloid, thinks back to the events of another Sept. 11 in America, this one in 1893, when revered Hindu mystic philosopher Swami Vivekananda spoke at the first World’s Parliament of Religions in Chicago in 1893, held alongside the city’s world fair that year.

The lesson from the events of the two 9/11s, over a century apart, is to make Sept. 11 a day for marking “anti-fanaticism,” Mr. Ranade writes today—not to turn it into International Quran Burning Day.

Mr. Ranade quotes these remarks made by Swami Vivekananda to the Chicago gathering:

“Sectarianism, bigotry, and its horrible descendant, fanaticism, have long possessed this beautiful earth. They have filled the earth with violence, drenched it often and often with human blood, destroyed civilisation and sent whole nations to despair.Had it not been for these horrible demons, human society would be far more advanced than it is now.

But their time is come; and I fervently hope that the bell that tolled this morning in honour of this convention may be the death-knell of all fanaticism, of all persecutions with the sword or with the pen, and of all uncharitable feelings between persons wending their way to the same goal.”

This entry was posted in 9/11, American Exceptionalism, Ground Zero "Mosque", Immigration. Bookmark the permalink. Sunday, September 12th, 2010 at 7:16 pm
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37 Responses to Terror Strikes India on 9/11….01

  1. Maggie says: 1

    “… Only now, we’re turning against each other with more hatred and greater passion.

    This country is seeing more intolerance, more skepticism, and more unrest. We’re letting the terrorists finally achieve what they set out to do on September 11, 2001. We’re helping move their agenda forward by letting that terror live inside us …”

    Yeah, and I’m sure that’s pretty much how the French reasoned it before they stood back and let the German army march down the center of Paris … unchallenged.

    It’s not hatred, intolerance, skepticism or even terror.

    It’s resolve and conviction to preserve our liberty.

    On the morning of 9/11/01 I was feeding my then 1-1/2 yr old little girl a breakfast of Cream of Wheat, a fluffy scrambled egg, apple sauce, and some cranberry juice before taking her to “Infant Early Intervention Center Base” at the MR/DD school up the street from our home. She has Down Syndrome. Here in Ohio that morning it was warm, bright blue and sunny. I had the doors open. The birds were loud out in our maple trees. Lizzie Rose was in her highchair and I was alternating between her breakfast selections while watching the 13″ TV on the kitchen counter. At the time our cable didn’t have FOX News. I was also alternating between the three networks and CNN. I was on ABC when they kicked out to live feed from the WTC and began speculating on what the smoke was all about.

    I remember thinking, as they began compiling the information that a ‘small’ airplane had struck the tower, this just doesn’t feel right. Even if it was an accident it was still improbable. I bounced around the four news outlets in case one of them had any real info first. The baby finished her breakfast and I gave her a handful of Cheerios to tangle with while I finished my tea and flipped the channels. Back to ABC … they were showing the first tower live and yacking and speculating when a plane emerged from the side of the TV screen … gliding in fast and tipped on its side. My mouth opened to “Oh no!’ and in between that and my next heartbeat it hit the second tower and disappeared into a monstrous ball of Hell. “Oh my, God” I breathed, “this is really happening. This isn’t a scene in a movie. This is really happening!”

    I usually had my daughter to school by 9:30, but was running late watching the coverage and waiting for answers. As I collected what the baby would need for school I watched out the corner of my eye … and then came the news the Pentagon was on fire. At that time they suspected a bomb. No live feed yet, so I loaded my daughter in the car and went up the street to the school. When I’d gotten there the teacher in the classroom had on the radio but was listening to music. I told her and the classroom aides what was going on. One ran down to the school auditorium/lunchroom and turned on the TV. The school staff took turns watching the coverage. I had to get home. Left the baby and got home and in the door just in time to see the first tower collapse. STILL the TV talking heads were fumbling and bumbling even on their speculating. Moments later the reports of a plane going down in a Pennsylvania field came in … The Pentagon was collapsing, the second tower surrendered to its massive wound and weight. I knew thousands were just buried alive and crushed. I debated calling my older daughters’ schools and telling them to have my girls waiting in the office I was coming to bring them home. (I was in kindergarten the day Pres. Kennedy was assassinated, and remember being sent home.) But I realized those schools might be oblivious as well to what was happening, and I doubted I could get through an explanation over the phone without sounding hysterical and insane. As I took a deep breath and started for the door they announced all flights were being grounded. My mind was spinning. I couldn’t comprehend it … all those flights in the air were being forced down where?? How?? I expected reports of mid-air collisions and accidental landing crashes to start coming in. But they didn’t.

    I allowed my older daughters a few more hours of “life as usual” in their school settings. When the dismissal bells rang in the middle and high school that afternoon the world they would step out into would be changed forever. I correctly knew my daughters would have friends heading off to war in the next few years … to this day. I picked up my baby girl from her school on time. One of the aides who had voted for Gore was mumbling as the kids’ lunch table that ‘Now that Bush will drag us into war and get our young men killed’. I just glared at her for a moment in the silence and shook my head, “Thousands have been killed in little over an hour. They weren’t soldiers. This is our Pearl Harbor. Yeah, we’re going to war.” She was pissed.

    In the days that followed and they released the flight pattern of Flight 93 I saw that it came right over our airspace that morning. Our local reserve airbase shares the field with the small local municipal airport over in the next county. Some of the planes forced down that morning landed there. Was more air traffic than the airport had seen in decades. Passengers either stayed in the local hotels or were looking for transportation to continue their journey.

    Saturday C-SPAN had a 3 hour live program with some air traffic controllers and pilots (civilian and military) that were working on 9/11. It is quite an accounting, and well worth the listen:

    http://tinyurl.com/28lldpk

    What pisses me off is watching the archived coverage from that morning in youtube videos and such over the weekend I can see where the damn 9/11 Truthers got their talking points. From the misinformation the loopy media was spinning, to the sloppy feed of ‘eye witnesses’ who were using words to describe what they saw and heard, not say “It was a missile”. Everything began being taken out of context from the start.

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  2. Nan G says: 2

    Terror is striking India every day.

    In Tangmarg a crowd chanted anti-US and pro-Islam slogans before burning down a Christian missionary school.

    Thousands of Muslims defied curfew orders overnight and on Monday to hold protests across the Himalayan region, many shouting “Death to the US!” and “Death to Koran desecrators!””

    India is considering ceding Kashmir to Islamic rule (dropping its 20 year-old emergency Armed Forces Special Powers Act that has been used to protect non-Muslims in the 4 districts there from out and out Muslim take-over.

    I guess, once Sharia is instituted, ”peace” will obtain.
    It always does./

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  3. Dr.D says: 3

    @ Maggie
    Much of what “the damn 9/11 Truthers” base their claims upon is solid scientific evidence taken from film footage of the collapsing buildings along with technical knowledge of how buildings fall as a result of fires on the one hand and controlled demolition on the other hand. Everything about the nature of the collapse of the Twin Towers and also WTC 7 points to a controlled demolition using precisely placed and controlled pyrotechnic cutter charges; this is the only way to get a building to fall within its own foot print as each of those did.

    But those “damn 9/11 Truthers” just wont listen to emotion like they are supposed to. They keep asking questions about things like why the whole site was cleaned up without an adequate investigation with all of the evidence very carefully, systematically destroyed. There were chemical residues of thermite, the cutter charge material found in the debris, but this was never given any explanation at all. As a matter of fact, the final reports, say that the buildings collapsed by fire in a manner consistent only with a controlled demolition, and nobody has any idea how that happened. We should all believe in miracles at the WTC!

    And everybody happily would, if it just were not for those pesky 9/11 Truthers!

    No, the fact is that we have been fed a monstrous lie by the US government regarding what happened on 9/11. It appears that there were indeed a few muzlims involved, but it also appears that they were actually minor actors, taking credit for a much bigger show whose primary actors prefer to remain anonymous. On the basis of this lie, we have fought a war in Iraq, are currently fighting in Afghanistan, we have seen the invasive Patriot Act come into our lives, the ever expanding clown act called TSA, all while our southern border remains totally undefended. Because Americans were so eager not to demand the truth, we have been willing to do a long string of utterly absurd actions, and the list continues to grow.

    It is just those damn 9/11 Truthers who will not shut up and let the farce run smoothly!

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  4. Maggie says: 4

    Dr. D –

    Bullshit.

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  5. Dr.D says: 6

    @ Maggie

    That’s right, when you can’t deal with the facts, just respond with a vulgarity. It is a highly suitable response, fully revealing your position. The intellectual quality of your rebuttal is breathtaking (or should I just say it stinks?)

    Every word I said is well documented on the ‘net, but if you prefer to belief in fairy tales, told by people whose best scientific response is “we don’t know,” then that is certainly your privilege. Please do your shopping in the children’s department.

    It has been said by any number of people previously, but it bears repeating again here. We are all entitled to our own opinions, but we are not entitled to our own facts. The facts presented in verifiable and reproducible form by “the damn 9/11 Truthers” will not simply go away. They demand an explanation, a far better explanation that has been given to date.

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  6. Curt says: 7

    On a remote patch of Kansas prairie believed to fall outside the range of U.N. spy satellites, construction is finally complete on the long- awaited 9/11 Truther Memorial, sources confirmed Wednesday.

    Funded by donations from dozens of websites and fringe publishers, and dedicated to “the fearless amateur research and bold guesswork” of those seeking to “expose the secret machinations of the world’s true puppet masters,” the 7,000-square-foot monument has already attracted hundreds of visitors.

    “It was a long time coming, but at last it’s here,” said Don Gustaf, a blogger who drove from Cincinnati to see the site. “This will stand forever in tribute to those who lost their lives the day clandestine CIA operatives used advanced wireless technology to electronically hijack a pair of 767s and remotely fly them into the World Trade Center.”

    Created by a design team who chose to remain anonymous for fear of reprisals from the Bilderberg Group, the memorial has as its centerpiece the “Truth Towers,” a 60-foot-tall replica of the World Trade Center that houses a museum devoted to unanswered questions surrounding the attacks. Below it lies a pentagonal reflecting pool from which emerge 18 steps leading to the base of the monument, with each stair intended to symbolize one of the 18 Great Lies of the 9/11 conspiracy.

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  7. Maggie says: 8

    Bullshit.

    There have been debunking studies by building engineers, Popular Mechanics, and scientists regarding Truthers. Your theories are right up there with the UFO truthers.

    I have not the time to counter all your bullshit “fire doesn’t melt steel” crap and you would only insist on saying the debunkers are idiots. Just as the global warming scientists call the no global warming scientists idiots.

    You believe what you want. I’m sure ABC’s TV show “Lost” (which I never saw an episode of btw) was supposed to be loosely based on where all those killed on the 4 planes were dropped and now living.

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  8. Maggie says: 9

    Curt –

    There had better not be a mosque planned for the memorial, is all I gots to say. /sarc

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  9. Curt says: 10

    55 seconds in

    “That takes a special kind of asshole”

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  10. Skookum says: 11

    As someone who has made tens of thousands of horseshoes, everything from race horse shoes to draft shoes and has left shoes too long in a coal fire, I can tell you without a doubt that a coal fire with good ol’ Pocahontas blacksmith coking coal will burn steel. Put a little pressure on a a steel shoe that is red hot from inferior coal and the steel turns to spaghetti. Doubters can put down some serious money and I will be more than happy to do a demonstration and take your money on a fool’s bet. Let’s say four of my mortgage payments; I need some relief, for fun I will show you how to weld, braze, and burn steel to rat crap with nothing more than little slag balls of thermite welding residue. I love a sucker bet.

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  11. Dr.D says: 12

    How simply juvenile! Are you folks unable to present an argument with out calling the other side “those damn 9/11 Truthers” or “a**holes”? Do you have to resort to gutter language in order to make your presentation because you have so little punch to what you have to say? I’d say that is the case.

    You have found a video of a couple of firemen who say that it was the fire that brought the Towers down. There are numerous videos of other equally knowledgeable people who will say the opposite.

    You have video of a woman explaining the psychology of people distrusting the government. So what? When there are good hard facts available to support distrusting the government, then there is no paranoia at all involved.

    Much solid scientific work has been gathered and presented at a web sited called Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, http://www.AE911Truth.org. This work presents no theories as to who did what, only attempts to describe what actually happened. It makes it abundantly clear that we have not been told what actually did happen.

    But, for those who prefer to be the “loyal foot soldiers” and follow without asking any questions, it is far easier to condemn those who seek real answers. Real answers are likely to embarrass goodness knows who.

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  12. Curt says: 13

    It makes it abundantly clear that we have not been told what actually did happen.

    Talk about juvenile and embarrassing.

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  13. Dr.D says: 14

    @ Skookum

    I think you know that you are proposing is irrelevant to the discussion of what happened in the Twin Towers. The heat release of jet fuel burning with only ordinary atmospheric air, versus what you can get in a coal forge are radically different things.

    So what is your point?

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  14. Nan G says: 15

    Ever see the designer of the Twin Towers interviewed?
    He explained exactly why the building both fell down upon themselves like they did.

    He was bereft about it, too.

    He had designed the buildings to be mostly glass on the outer skin.
    So each floor had to be cleated to the vertical main central shaft (holding the elevators) and outer skin.

    There were no extra supports as the floors went higher and higher.
    Just that same design over and over all the way up.

    So, when a few of those cleats gave way, both during the initial impacts and during the fires, they eventually caused the floor they were holding up to pancake onto the floor underneath.

    BUT that floor was not designed to take that much extra weight.
    It, too, pancaked down.
    And so on all the way down.

    No mystery.
    I doubt there will ever be new tall buildings made in that way again.

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  15. Curt says: 16

    The Top 10 Mistakes of those “experts” at AE911Truth.org

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  16. Maggie says: 17

    Nan G –

    I did see that on THC, and oddly it has not been played in at least 8 years again.

    Also, I believe the fire resistant insulation was stopped at around the 50th floor of both buildings?

    People who worked at the WTC during the first terrorist attack, and were caught in there on 9-11 said it was a death trap waiting to happen.

    But the biggest bullshit card to be played here is the fact that such a massive destruction operation would have involved a lot of people, a certain percentage of which would not have kept their mouth shut by now.

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  17. Dr.D says: 18

    It makes it abundantly clear that we have not been told what actually did happen.

    Talk about juvenile and embarrassing.

    @ Curt

    Let’s get specific for a couple of minutes. The time that it took for each building to fall was almost exactly the time that it would take for an object to fall in free fall from the height of that building. Thus if a ball had been dropped beside the building as it began to fall, the ball would have hit the ground almost exactly the same instant that the building did. This has been established by checking the time of fall for the buildings and calculating the time for a ball (a rock, a marble, etc) to fall that distance.

    If it was fire that caused the collapse, then as the building fell, when the falling mass encountered each new, undamaged floor, it should have hesitated until it could break through that floor. This would slow the fall of the building considerably. It would take much longer to fall this way than the free fall time. This does not happen, however, because each floor is already falling, having been blown away by demolition charges. Thus the entire building comes down at free fall speed.

    This is just one of many, many points that indicate that the building was brought down by demolition rather than by fire.

    If you want to continue the discussion, would it be too much to ask you to drop the vulgarities? It really is demeaning and lowers the quality of the discourse greatly.

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  18. Old Trooper 2 says: 19

    Dr.D, too many moons ago when I was a Student in my initial Military Demolitions training on making do with improvised “explosives” I cut a standard grade steel railroad rail with a 5 gallon can of gasoline. It cut it and peeled the rail up like it was a piece of linguine.

    If I had not of performed that task, I quite frankly would not have believed it. :wink:

    Clearly not at all theoretical. Practical and achievable.

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  19. Maggie says: 20

    I see the experts are weighing in now. I thank them. I now choose to stand back and watch the exchanges. After the last week of Koran burning/ GZ mosque bullshit I’m just too damn tired to re-hash the science of 9/11. Truth be told, there is probably more evidence that there really are ETs visiting us than there is evidence that “Bush/Cheney” took down the WTC, etc., in roughly 8 months in office.

    I know what I saw. We were attacked.

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  20. I was watching FOX NEWS when it happen, so I beleive WHAT I saw,
    no more no less; BUT from what is going on with that IMAM mosque ,he want to build,
    make me wonder if the terrorists where doing the demolition for that MOSQUE which was planned years ago. we are allowed to think of that possibility, since we dont trust their intent now.

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  21. Curt says: 22

    brought down by demolition rather than by fire

    There was a time years ago when nuts like you twoofers should of been confronted and debated (as was done many times on this blog) but that time is long past. Ignoring and mocking you guys should only be done now. You deserve nothing less.

    Geez louise.

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  22. Curt says: 23

    And for the readers, here is a good PDF version of a paper analyzing the twoofer Dr.D’s argument as well as the following addendums here, here and here.

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  23. DR.D: as the plane hit ,ADD all the componants in each unit ignited and those other component
    exploding with the impact,that to me is enough to demolish the whole building, considering those where TOWERS lean and tall and sealed widows

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  24. Maggie says: 25

    The buildings were weakened by the heat of the fires. They were brought down by their own weight/stress, each collapse greatly contributing more stress and weight to the next building already on fire and barely standing. The design was the major contributing fault in the whole final destruction.

    Nan G is right. THC (or maybe it was the Discovery Ch.) ran a program with those who had built the two buildings and they gave the reasons why it came down. They expected it all to fall as soon as they saw the planes had hit. Which ever channel ran the program has NOT run it since.

    But nothing anyone can say or provide will change the mind(s) of Rosie O`Donnels and Charlie Sheens and Cynthia McKinneys.

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  25. THERE also could have been SUICIDE TERRORIST down under waiting and coordinated with
    the planes timings why not.

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  26. MAGGIE: wow you described what many people where doing as one,
    SO well detailed that are so important years after. thank you, you are very good at it. bye

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  27. Skookum says: 28

    Atmospheric air is exactly what you use with a 19th century hand crank blower, if you are a mechanical genius, you can reverse a vacuum cleaner and use a simple rheostat from a dimmer switch to control the air. Now days since the guys don’t know how to use coal, they use propane gas and can accomplish the same thing, with a 32 Ounce hammer you can make a bow tie out of say 1 1/2 x 3/8 cold rolled steel bar and punch holes through it easily; although the beams were much heavier it is only a matter of weight and leverage combined with heat. I can do the same thing with a hot burning wood like oak or pine. A building like the twin towers with all that weight, heat up the beams and it is only a matter of time.

    If you want to work iron with heat, it is hard to outrun me. I’ve done it for real, with no conspiracy, just the actual work. It’s actually been done for 2400 years, but most of the guys who did it before me have passed on. Give me thousands of pounds of kerosene and an explosive situation with mega tonnage and you will have some serious iron working, forget the fire retardant that’s a joke. It means nothing when the iron is glowing red, that’s when iron is ready to work and the weight will work the iron. This whole thing is a joke.

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  28. Dr.D says: 29

    Skookum, you made my point exactly. In the forge, you have forced air, not stagnant, atmospheric air to work with and that makes all the difference in the world as well you know. There was no forced air draft in the Twin Towers.

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  29. Skookum says: 30

    Have you ever been near an explosion and/or big fire? There are tremendous rushes of air away from an explosion, but when air is pushed away it creates its own vacuum and must draw air by the negative pressure it creates. A fire is pulling in air continuously to feed itself, a big fire will feel as if it is pulling you towards the fire because it is consuming so much oxygen it is creating its own windstorm and that is part of the roar you hear when you are near a big hot fire. The pathetic amount of air you create with a hand blower or vacuum motor is nothing compared to the volume of air near a hot forest fire. It would be like a fart in a windstorm. Fight a forest fire sometime, stand close and feel the fire robbing you of your oxygen. When you are that close, you must watch the wind, because the fire can turn around and you will be gone.

    I’ve fought forest fires and been near explosions.

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  30. Maggie says: 31

    [[There was no forced air draft in the Twin Towers]]

    You’re kidding, right?

    The two towers were basically raging chimneys and furnaces by the time they collapsed. The up-draft must’ve been like a friggin’ small atomic bomb. Heat makes its own forced air. The more heat the more forced air.

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  31. Maggie says: 32

    “I’ve fought forest fires …”

    Skookum –

    Thanks for including that. Meant to but forgot before hitting [send].

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  32. johngalt says: 33

    Dr. D is apparently not a holder of a doctorate in engineering. Nearly all of the claims made by the “truthers” have been debunked by knowledgeable entities, yet they still claim their gospel.

    Skookum, you made my point exactly. In the forge, you have forced air, not stagnant, atmospheric air to work with and that makes all the difference in the world as well you know. There was no forced air draft in the Twin Towers.

    Technically, you are correct in that there was no forced draft of air feeding the fires. What you discount though is the amount of air drawn upward through the towers, into the lower floors not burning and up into the fire, and the massive amounts of superheated air flowing upwards out of the towers themselves. Ever hear the phrase “nature abhors a vacuum”? Guess what? It does, and the vacuum created by the heated air in the towers, with the space below the fires relatively open, was much higher than a typical pooled jet fuel fire at ground level. What’s more, the fires were subjected to high winds due to the height they were burning at. Essentially, the fires were fed with air at higher velocities than a typical low pressure forced draft system, creating higher than normal temperatures for a jet fuel fed fire.

    If it was fire that caused the collapse, then as the building fell, when the falling mass encountered each new, undamaged floor, it should have hesitated until it could break through that floor.

    Floors in all buildings are made to support certain weights, not necessarily those of the floors above them. That is what the framing of the buildings is for. The weights encountered by the ‘undamaged’ floors by the falling debris from the floors above them was much higher than the rated load capacities of the floors themselves. It is easy to see that those floors would not fare much better than a vehicle trying to stop a freight train. Believe what you will, but I see your argument quoted as ignorant of factual evidence supporting your claims. When the building designer accepts the outcome as seen due to his design, one has to present more than just opinion on what they think they should have seen to be believable.

    This has been established by checking the time of fall for the buildings and calculating the time for a ball (a rock, a marble, etc) to fall that distance.

    In a vacuum, the speeds should equal if the only exerting force was gravity. Ever hear of terminal velocity? For falling objects, it is the velocity achieved by an object when the force of gravity is equaled by the opposing force of drag on the object. A ball, therefore, dropped from the height of the towers would reach a terminal velocity prior to reaching zero altitude. The towers, however, falling in on themselves encounter minimal drag due to air, and an unknown drag due to resistance from lower floors and debris. Using your explanation yields no known constants, or facts, regarding the falling of the towers themselves and coupled with what I have presented, can be ‘claimed’ to have fallen faster than expected, or not as fast as expected, as there are too many unknown variables to even reliably predict what might happen. All we have is our eyes, and mine, along with the physics knowledge I have, say that what I witnessed was indeed due to the jets hitting the buildings.

    Every word I said is well documented on the ‘net

    So are Bigfoot sightings, Loch Ness monster sightings, UFO sightings, etc., etc., etc. Anyone ever tell you to take what you read on the net with a grain of salt? Or, rather, don’t believe everything you’ve read on the net and take it as gospel?

    The strongest, and by far the biggest, fact you are failing to recognize is the massive amount of people necessary to pull of this conspiracy. Everyone from the President down to the building security guards themselves. Nine years and not one peep from anyone directly involved in the events of the day. Nine years and no one selling their story to Time or the National Enquirer. Thousands of people would have been involved in the coverup afterwards, and yet not one single person has spilled the beans. Why is that? Did the CIA terminate most of those involved? Did the NSA take out anyone deemed untrustworthy?

    I wonder what all those people who received calls from loved ones aboard Flight 93 believe?

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  33. Wordsmith says: 34

    *Cough*

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  34. dee says: 35

    Lots of info on fires and such. I guess we aren’t supposed to believe our lying eyes. I watched that horror and not knowing anything mechanical I can’t see how anything would be left standing after that.

    Did that many Americans hate former President Bush that much? To think that he would be complicit in the murder of his fellow man? That’s a disheartening thing to hear, someone who loves his country to be accused of something this evil. What has become of us.

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  35. Hard Right says: 36

    The firebombing of Dresden. The fires were pulling in so much air that people were being sucked into the flames from over a block away. This is easily verifiable from historical accounts.

    Dee, it isn’t hatred of Bush for all twoofers. Some of it is that paranoid style of thinking, while another part is some people’s inability to face reality.
    If Bush is the culprit, then we don’t have terrorists on a quest to destroy America and that threat is gone. Or, they only want us dead because of Bush and his phony 9/11 attack. If we get rid of him, all will be well again. Plus, they can control to some degree what happens with Bush. Terrorists? Not so much. IIRC this is called displacement and it is an identifiable psychological issue.

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  36. Maggie says: 37

    Hard Right –

    Yep.

    ReplyReply

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