September 6, 2010 Afghans wave banners saying “Quran is our law, Islam is our religion” during a demonstration against the U.S. in Kabul. Hundreds railed against the U.S. and called for President Barack Obama’s death at the rally denouncing an American church’s plans to burn the Islamic holy book on Sept. 11.Musadeq Sadeq-AP
As I’m sure everyone is made aware of already, General Petraeus has publicly spoken out against the wisdom (or lack thereof) of the planned burning of Korans on September 11th:
“It could endanger troops and it could endanger the overall effort,” Gen. Petraeus said in an interview. “It is precisely the kind of action the Taliban uses and could cause significant problems. Not just here, but everywhere in the world we are engaged with the Islamic community.”
Hundreds of Afghans attended a demonstration in Kabul on Monday to protest the plans of Florida pastor Terry Jones, who has said he will burn copies of Islam’s holy book to mark the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Afghan protesters chanted “death to America,” and speakers called on the U.S. to withdraw its troops. Some protesters threw rocks at a passing military convoy.
Military officials fear the protests will likely spread to other Afghan cities, especially if the event is broadcast or ends up on Internet video.
Gen. Caldwell said many Afghans do not understand either the U.S. Constitution’s First Amendment or the fact that President Barack Obama can’t simply issue a decree to stop Mr. Jones from his demonstration. Military officials said they were not trying to deny Mr. Jones his right to free speech, but feared he was not thinking about the consequences of his actions.
“There is no question about First Amendment rights; that is not the issue,” Gen. Caldwell said. “The question is: What is the implication over here? It is going to jeopardize the men and women serving in Afghanistan.”
As opponents of the “Ground Zero Mosque” like to say, “This isn’t about what’s legal. We know it’s legal. This is about what’s right.”
What good will be accomplished by the burning of the Koran? In its original Arabic, it is regarded with deep reverence by those who practice the faith seriously (both by jihadis and by peaceful Muslims), as the very Word of God. By trying to hurt “radicals” who else are they hurting in the process? Of course, Terry Jones, who authored a book titled “Islam is of The Devil,” is one of those who regards Islam itself as the enemy. This plays right into the hands of bin Laden and Zawahiri who desperately want the entire Muslim world to buy into their propaganda that the West, and the U.S. in particular, are persecuting Muslims and are at war with their faith. Truth is not on their side…unless al Qaeda has willing dupes like Terry Jones pawning for them.
There is no question that a good percentage of the Islamic world has a tolerance and anger management problem:
Allegations of mishandling the Quran have interrupted Afghan security training at least twice this year, Gen. Caldwell said.
In one instance, a Quran fell to the ground when an American officer opened a locker during an inspection of Afghan trainees’ barracks. The rumor quickly spread that the officer had thrown it to the ground, angering the trainees at the camp. “He quickly apologized, but rumors took off like wildfire,” Gen. Caldwell said. “It was so hard to get the misperception turned around we stopped all training for the rest of the day.”
Reports about the Quran have set off violent protests before. A report in Newsweek, later retracted, that a U.S. interrogator at the Guantanamo Bay prison had flushed a Quran down a toilet set off riots in Afghanistan and elsewhere.
And certainly there is a fair amount of double standard at work, where artists, comedians, writers, and anti-Christian bigots feel free to insult and defile Christianity while Islam appears to be “off limits”. At least not without “Islamic rage boy” terrorizing the offenders with fatwas and rioting.
There is no fear of Christian militant Crusadists walking up to Andres Serrano and stabbing him to death over Piss Christ.
However, a few points:
1) We are not in the middle of a war with Christian religious radical extremist militants where winning hearts and minds of the Christian majority is a major part of waging a global counterinsurgency effort.
2) Just because one can ridicule Christians and Jews and get away with it does not make it right to do so. One should, in general, be respectful of others. Be the example. The line of reasoning that argues “We’ll let a mosque be built here as soon as they allow churches and synagogues to be built at Mecca and Medina” are just juvenile and self-serving tit for tats. Why would we choose to be “more like them”? So arguing that we should burn Korans because others are able to desecrate things held sacred by Jews and Christians and get away with it is just a weak, childish, vindictive, gratuitous form of being what you profess to hate. Who are we really hurting here?
We shouldn’t have to tip-toe on eggshells around a particular religion and give special preferential treatment to it, not extended to the other faiths. However, the reality also remains that one of the three major faiths does have an anger management problem amongst a sizable minority of its practitioners and we are in the middle of a war. A war that requires the winning of hearts and minds and the marginalization of the more radical elements of Islam from the more moderate elements of Islam.
We have Muslim allies in our war. They and our enemy share the same Holy Book. But their reading of it differs. How does burning their Holy Book hurt our enemy and not our allies?
Interestingly enough, one of my friends who is French Muslim-American, posted a CNN video interview of Terry Jones a couple of weeks ago on her FB wall. Every single one of her Muslim friends merely laughed or was dismissive, expressing a “turn the other cheek” sentiment in their comments. No stereotypical Islamic rage here. One might call their reaction a very typical “Christian” response. They’d probably disagree and say they are being “Islamic” in their tolerance (Believe it or not, cynicism and derision aside, Sumbul Ali-Karamali talks about tolerance in Islam in her book, “The Muslim Next Door”).
I do not believe that desecration of the Koran hurts bin Laden and Zawahiri in the slightest. I do believe that they welcome- they beg for “International Burn a Koran Day” to occur….because it plays right into their propaganda playbook.
Just because we can…..should we?
A handwritten Koran is displayed during an exhibition in Malacca, Malaysia January 12, 2008. You Witness News/Aizuddin Saad
I have a better idea…
Lets burn 1000 Korans a day, for the next few years… eventually they will get tired of getting angry over it.
I’m tired of us limiting our own freedoms… because Third World Barbarians getting angry…
We are a F’n super power… and we need to act like one…
I notice that NO Government spokesmen came out speaking about how the Mosque at Ground Zero will make us angry… and yet we do have a General worried about the anger of a few Tards in Afganistan????
There were 500 hundred protesting in Afgtanistan over this…. and our Government trembles…. when 1000 Americans protested the Mosque on the 22nd… and crickets…
Well….the President did “speak out”….
I’ve heard plenty of chirping.
But maybe that’s because I hang out in the right-wing blogosphere.
And yup,
a drop in the bucket on Islamic rage protests (including the protests and rioting over the Danish cartoons) when one measures the few thousand protesters against the number of millions of Muslims who stayed home and carried on about their businesses.
But more than 500 outside of Afghanistan…and will probably be growing.
I think this planned action is ill-advised, but it is one’s Constitutional right.
In principle this is not different from the Mosque situation.
The mere rumor of a Quran desecration at Gitmo led to the deaths of over 50 people worldwide.
Dave Petraeus has it right. Although I am in very strong disagreement with Sharia Law,
burning books is a page out of Hitler’s book or some Mullah in denial over the Holocaust.
It is just a very stupid thing to do. Period. It about common sense and the moral high
ground, not some jive about hearts and minds. It is akin to throwing gasoline on a fire.
Just flat out dumb!
Not saying we need to drop into the gutter but i would have no problem seeing it brodcast to the world
A. did we see three building attacked?
B. did we not see the people jumping to their deaths
C. did we not see the towers collapse?
D. did we not see them dancing in the streets
Let them see me dancing, let them see me not hiding behind a pizza table cloth over my head and face.
One other thing let our troops fight and stop being sitting targets, let the air strikes commence again. Let them take down a mosque or two. If 600,000 died figting for what many belive was right, (no matter what side) Then this is right…
Wait…….“It could endanger troops and it could endanger the overall effort,”….??
You mean to tell me that our troops aren’t in danger and the overall effect is intact under the ROE of the present administration?
“Scuse me while I kiss the sky……….”
@Old Trooper 2
If they dislike the US, they will just find some other excuse to hate us. If burning a book 12,000 miles away can cause you to go to war, then I’d tend to say you are not really civilized in the Western sense of the word.
Personally I think we should embrace our own Ugly American persona… and PISS THEM OFF every chance we get… because bowing to their sensibilities and better nature sure does not seem to be working.
Look at the Israel/Hamas situation. Israel could have wiped them out easily many many times… and have held off by taking the moral high ground… and now due to international pressure may very well loose large parts of their own country.
Sometimes it just time to call a Spade a Spade (ewww am I RAAAAACIST?), and deal with their anger… with a gun… because they are just going to get angry over somthing else anyway.
DHIMMI–One who will accept a mosque at ground zero, while railing against the burning of the Quran as a dangerous affront to the religion of peace. Of course, dhimmi has a number of English synonyms. For example, democrat, RINO, coward and puss.
I too am in agreement with the author of this article. There is no good in burning books. It makes us look like zealots. This is never the answer.
I am a Catholic and abhor seeing desecration of objects that are holy to my faith. And, believe me, I see it in the media and in my everyday life constantly.
So, while I don’t believe in Islam, I respect the objects of their faith.
Not burning the Koran has nothing to do with strength. Just ‘cuz you CAN do something doesn’t mean you should.
I think that the planned burning of the Ku’ran or any other book in public is a nasty affront to law abiding people. However, it is LEGAL to burn any book in the U.S.A. period. This is going to be used as an excuse by Islamo-Fascists world-wide to rally the ignorant and intolerant to arms to commit more heinous crimes against non-Muslims everywhere. I remember that recently 10 Health aid workers were murdered in Afghanistan several whom were women. WHY WERE THEY MURDERED? simply because they had Christian Bibles in their possession. Where is the outrage regarding this horrible crime? Can you imagine the terror and fear in these selfless health workers hearts as their guide was reciting verses from the Ku’ran in order to save himself, as they were being beaten and shot one by one for being Christian? The Taliban said proudly that they murdered them for proselytizing. (they were not) Is there any moral equivalency to these murders and the impending burning of the Ku’ran? Not even close.
Perhaps the individual is burning them in response to the murders of these innocent martyrs.
BTW, how many Muslims protested these murders and expressed their outrage that this crime of mass murder had been committed in the name of Islam?
Does this proove that one MUST be violent to get our OWN Governments attention?
Tea Party protest in DC last year…. 100′s of thoussands… crickets…
300K PLUS at Beck’s rally… chirp… chirp…
500 Afgans… Head General and Whitehouse spokeman speak out, about somthing that has not even happened YET.
Murders of American Citizens because they are Christian… crickets…
Some drunk Pissed in a Mosque… media goes nuts… condemnation everywhere.
But then again…. King George did not take the people seriously either, right up until Bunker Hill…
Blogforce One nails it…
Time to welcome these scum-bags to their world.
Fire with fire…don’t like it…quit fucking around and live in peace.
“Military personnel threw away, and ultimately burned, confiscated Bibles that were printed in the two most common Afghan languages amid concern they would be used to try to convert Afghans, a Defense Department spokesman said Tuesday.”
“The unsolicited Bibles sent by a church in the United States were confiscated about a year ago at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan because military rules forbid troops of any religion from proselytizing while deployed there, Lt. Col. Mark Wright said.”
“Such religious outreach can endanger American troops and civilians in the devoutly Muslim nation, Wright said.”
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-05-20/world/us.military.bibles.burned_1_bibles-al-jazeera-english-military-personnel?_s=PM:WORLD
What can one say when our own military deliberately burns Bibles. David Petraeus felt no need to speak out at that time. Where was our State Department? Where was the mayor of New York? What kind of freedom are our sons and daughters dying for?
Our bibles should not have been burned either. And there should have been an outrage about it as well.
Question, for the “Higher moral ground” crowd.
Do you really beleive, with what you know of Islam, and the Koran, that the West will EVER NOT offend Muslims?
You do know that you Female posters, should not be posting? Without your Man’s permission? That the very freedom of Speech you use here, is against the Koran? That you should be wearing Burkhas?
Men? Freedom of Speech or religion??? Muslim? uh… no… and of course, if you are wearing a Mullet, and not a Beard???? Lashes buddy….
They rioted over a F’n CARTOON! BeJesus folks… oh wait… I’d better not use that term or my Mom the Methodist might hold a bake sale or somthing….
Where a cartoon of Moh gets me DEATH F’n THREATS!
I say… its time to be AMERICAN! Porno and BEER for ALL… and if you don’t like it? Piss on ya… we’ll send the Bombers.;
I believe Wordsmith and Old Trooper 2 have the right spirit about this. Might does not make right. Burning the books is the dumbest thing I have heard in a long time.
It is incorrect to say that burning the Koran will put U.S. military personnel in Iraq or Afghanistan in “harms way” because they are already in harms way. Americans can defend themselves by killing terrorists, militants and insurgents.
Besides, it is an American right to burn any book. It is a form of freedom of expression. And, why not? When you consider the HATE that exudes from the Koran, it makes sense to protest the idea that this Koran garbage is what entices and incites young Muslim activists to become radicalized terrorists at many levels. Even “moderates” who read and believe in the Koran are radicalized by reading it.
I’m sure those wanting to burn the Koran in protest sense the origin of the hatred toward America … and that’s the Koran itself and the radicalized followers and believers of it.
Just a note also, the photos and videos that I saw of protesters protesting against the burning of the Koran in Afghanistan showed VERY FEW protesters. The media seems to be dolling this one up also. And, it is NOT a violation of political correctness to want books of HATE, like the Koran, out of the hands of impressionable young minds.
Burning the Koran is far and away an act of violence. So if you wish; burn baby burn the Koran.
As my nephew said lat week in a email from Afghanistan who happens to be a medic stated we cannot shoot back if civilans are in harms way, Do nothing but be in harms way so you cant return fire? F that Ok dont burn thee comic book but giver our men and women back both arms to fight with and the tools. Deaths under bush 600 since Skippu took over 637..what the “intercourse” dont you people understand about DEATH TO AMERICA AND DEATH TO AMERICANS.
Why stop at buring the Koran?
Perhaps we can send in Special Forces and cover the Dome of the Rock in pigskin?
That’ll show ‘em, huh?
@newguy40
You must be very weak in your faith. Whenever some Americans, or foreigners, burn American flags, I keep in mind that the ideals that the flag represents are not burned with the flags but rather live on in my mind and in my heart. It doesn’t affect me to see Americans exercise the very rights that the flag symbolizes. And, to object to the burning of a flag, an inanimate object, is to be weak in the faith that the ideals it represents invokes.
This differs from burning what I believe to be symbols of HATRED, such as the Koran. The HATRED of Jews and Infidels embodied in the Koran is morally WRONG. And in a civilized world with varying ideas in politics and religion; one must keep in mind that the only way to achieve peace is to have respect, not HATRED, toward others.
One of Mexico’s presidents said it well when he said: “El respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz.” Translated: The respect of others rights is peace.
Contrary to achieving peace, the Koran would have believers kill Jews and Infidels — removing the opposition; certainly a gargantuan impossibility. And the HATE engendered from within the Koran spoils young minds and encourages terrorism, violence, and militants.
If we have to fight and defend against this Koran and the HATRED embodied in it; so be it.
“Contrary to achieving peace, the Koran would have believers kill Jews and Infidels — removing the opposition; certainly a gargantuan impossibility. And the HATE engendered from within the Koran spoils young minds and encourages terrorism, violence, and militants.”
And the Bible encourages slavery, prostitution and rape. Most texts written thousands of years ago don’t reflect current mores. Millions of Christians and Muslims have managed to interpret their holy texts in a peaceful manner. So, you know, your point is invalid or possibly just dumb.
We aren’t hurting anyone, except those who want to be hurt.
Islam isn’t a religion, it’s a cult at best and a violent socio-political movement at worst.
Islam has invaded the West to conquer it, by having dropped on us the demographic bomb – far worse than a nuclear bomb.
Islam, whatever it is, must be confronted – and by us chickening out will send them the wrong message. One thing you never do with muslims is appease them, compromise with them or accept them: they will kill you eventually. History has many lessons for us on this, it’s our choice to ignore these lessons.
As for the risks involved, remember “freedom doesn’t come free.” And Petreous has just proved to me that he doesn’t belong where he is.
The fact that they will protest anything does not change the fact that we have a responsibility to take the higher moral ground. We may win a battle by taking the lower moral ground but we will lose the war. Wrong is wrong. Burning symbols of a persons religion is tantamount to declaring war. It is like the tribal clans that you see on discovery channel who desecrate their enemies symbols to strike fear in them. It may be effective but it is wrong. It is not the way to win this war. And you know what, those Muslims who were filmed cheering and chanting when 911 happened should be ashamed of themselves for that is tantamount to war. I
Let me ask you something? What would have our reaction to 911 have been if we had seen crowds of Muslims “weeping” for us and with us when their kinsman had committed Mass Murder? I have a feeling it would have been a lot different. I don’t approve of the Muslim religion, nor do I believe in it. And I have to admit that part of me wanted revenge for 911. But as the Bible says, Vengeance is mine saith the Lord. It is not mine to take. And in order to prevail in the long run, we have to take the higher ground.
I have another sadness in this. That so many Christians do not take their faith seriously enough to fight for their rights, to fight for the respect that they deserve. And I am not talking about taking to arms. I am talking about taking a stand and saying this is wrong. Boycotting those that desecrate our symbols.
Burning these books, no matter how we personally feel about the horrible message they deliver is never a good solution. I personally feel that we should all be reading them to better understand the actual intentions of the Islamic community. Thomas Jefferson once read a Q’Ran on a return voyage from England. The result was the creation of the United States Marines and a flexing of American Military Power which occured on the shores of Tripoli. That very same Q’Ran was used to swear in Keith Ellison as if it were proof of Jefferson’s respect for the Islamic Faith. Rather than destroying the words of people we disagree with, their words should be immortalized forever, so that they will not be able to escape them. Besides that, book burning just plainly puts us in the same company of a whole lot of tyrants from all over history. The ramblings of the maniacle pedophile should be read by every American Citizen, and I can guarantee that Jefferson’s reaction will be duplicated by a large majority of those who read it.
The Bible “encourages slavery, prostitution and rape”? Admitting that something exists is not the same as encouraging it. Perhaps it isn’t his point that is “just dumb”.
Adrian — You must be very ill informed. Allow me to correct your misunderstanding.
For a Catholic, Jesus is present body, spirit and divinity in the Eucharist. This also applies to the Gospel. So, desecration of those are desecration of Christ.
You see, flags are just bit of cloth.
@AdrianS:
This differs from burning what I believe to be symbols of HATRED, such as the Koran. The HATRED of Jews and Infidels embodied in the Koran is morally WRONG. And in a civilized world with varying ideas in politics and religion; one must keep in mind that the only way to achieve peace is to have respect, not HATRED, toward others.
Many see the Bible and the Flag as symbols of hatred.
Try Deuteronomy.
@ Flyovercountry
People already have read, and are knowledgeable about the koran – and burning a few is a symbolic act of confronting them. “Burning the koran” doesn’t mean “eliminating all copies” (although I wouldn’t object to that, after all I don’t see what are people going to lose by eliminating all copies of “Mein Kampf” or any other trash such as these two books.)
@Tammy:
Wow! This statement shows a complete lack of historical perspective. Free trade between nations has historically been the only thing which has produced a lasting peace. When both societies have had as much to lose by goods and services not moving across borders. There has never been, in the history of the world, a lasting peace produced by diplomatic means. I agree that the Q’Ran should not be burned, but for an entirely different reason. You should also seek a refund from your secondary school system or possibly your istitution of higher learning, as they have fed you a load of fertilizer.
By the way, the Brittish and French pretty much hate each other still, but are currently at peace. This is due to the fact that they have been trading partners since the late 1800′s. Prior to that partnership beginning, at least 500 years of warfare.
@Flyovercountry
Uh… before insulting people, you may want to go look at the Pre WWII trading patterns…. like between Germany and France in 1937? Or Poland and Germany? or heck, even Russia and Gemany pre invasion of Russia?
Trade can build bridges, but Political systems (and I place Islam in this category) can quickly destroy the bridges trade can build.
@ newguy40, I am Former SF and I deployed to Iraq and the Stans so put a plug in it.
Now for the rest of You Cyber Patriots, Hard guys and safe at the house “Heroes”…
Did it ever occur to any of you that burning one Quran or a pile of them is a Recruitment
Tool for the Radicals that I personally exchanged not harsh words but real bullets with?
Gen. Petraeus is no coward, fool or sympathizer with the Enemy. He has the responsibility for the Safety of American Warfighters in a place more dangerous than your living room. I know Dave personally and was one of his huge fans and still am. My 5th SF Group teams went with the 101st to cross the berm at the onset of OIF. I went 4 hours ahead of the longest Air Assualt in the History of the Planet with my merry band of Troopers to whack the hell out of some Republican Guard folks that were “in the way”.
If some Yokel Preacher burns one Quran and it hits You Tube, a shit storm will bloom where Your Troops are Deployed that only adds to the Jihadi Mystique and the risk to those Troops. If You have never personally been Deployed to the ME you don’t understand the trouble that absolutely will come from a book burning of this nature.
Come on FA Folks, pull your heads out of Your Six, put your emotions aside and ponder the consequences. I can’t believe the silly crap that I am reading here. I was a Shooter, Warfighter and a Commander of America’s Second Generation Patriots in places that you won’t go on Holiday. They have a tough enough job working with the Locals. Why add to the ranks of those that are collecting $1,000.00 a head to kill Americans?
Regarding Missionaries in the Stans, all I can ask myself is WTF were they thinking?
An American Passport does not make You bullet, machete or bomb proof. Period.
You FA Folks were always Folks that could add 2 + 2 and arrive at 4 for an answer.
The Quran Burning is really an idiotic act.
I thought that the majority of you all were smart enough to see that.
@Romeo13
I have to ask you and others that agree with you Do you profess to be Christians? If you do may I ask if being a Christian aren’t you suppose to spread that gospel and teach people about the love of Jesus Christ? What part of burning the Koran shows the love of Christ to others? I will have you know that I have friends and loved ones that are missionaries in the middle east. I will not share what country they are working in, (because it’s not legal to spread christianity there) but I will tell you that burning the Koran does nothing to show the love of Christ to any Muslim.
Am I a perfect Christian?? NO way!!! But this burning the Koran is actually putting the lives of more than just our soldiers at further risk. It puts the lives of every American that is currently in a Muslim country at further and UNNECESSARY RISK! I question the motives of Terry Jones.
@Old Trooper 2: I totally agree with you. There is more at stake here.
@Flyovercountry: And what part of my statement do you find so flabbergasting. Countries have been for the last several decades instituting boycotts on countries that they are disagreeing with, as well as travel restrictions. Does Cuba ring a bell? We may not have gotten rid of Castro, but those trade restrictions certainly limited his cash flow and kept him from being a big pain in the butt instead of a little pain in a butt.
Now you haven’t answered my question? What would your reaction have been if you had seen Muslims weeping for our loss instead of cheering for our loss?
And yes, we are now past the tribal stage and we should start acting like it. Please spare me the insults here. I am on your side. Just don’t agree that vengeance should be the answer here. Q’Ran burning doesn’t solve anything. Instead have faith and let the war play out among the average folk who have a vested interest in peace.
@old trooper 2
Ah… the Armchair commando Chicken Hawk card…
I guess I should not go to the next MARG 2-83 Reunion… or wear my Desert Storm ship’s hats anymore… and maybe I should send back my retirment check? Of course, I did never put in for my ColdWar medal… kinda missing from the shadow box now that I think on it…
@Real American Patriot
Sorry… I am not a Christian, so cannot answer for them… I’m a Deist… at best…
Old Trooper-Clearly your service did not iclude a sense of irony. Nor, evidently, a sense of freedom of speech. So, you are free to put that “plug” in a place of your own choosing, friend.
Tammy and NotLikely, et. al.:
What people see or feel in symbols is not the point; that is individual subjectivity. The point is that neither the flag nor the Bible expressly directs its followers to KILL Jews or Infidels nor feed them HATRED; as does the Koran.
Get it right or fail forever.
@ RAP… Quite frankly this is the first posting of yours that made a lick of sense.
Good on Ya Bud!
@ Tammy, telling it as it is results in a lot of rock throwing here at FA. You come here for the opportunity to vent, agree, disagree and get a little fun in the process. Good on You Gal!
My teams raided a Mosque in Sadr’s backyard, pulled the “bad things” out into the street and detonated them. Laughing at that now but burning the Quran is foolish.
Tribal is primitive political and rock solid amongst those that are potential allies. Dave Petraeus learned that.
I am currently involved in running a Montana Cattle Ranch that I own and writing up a “Lessons Learned” paper for DOD. Retired Colonels get asked for that. Even ones like me.
In the privacy of your own home, wipe your backsides with pages from the Quaran. I prefer
made in the USA paper but not the US Constitution as does the Pretender in Chief and his treasonous Staffers.
*Skookum…a heads up email is headed your way on Mikey, the obstinate gelding Morgan that has become useful as a pack hoss…
Consider the concept of “Reverse Profiling” . . . everyday we read, hear and see what is happening in countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan . . . yet we continuously hear about the moral and racial aspects of “profiling”. We now even have some bloggers and columnist that want to seperate the radical Islamic factions from the Moderate Islamic faith . . . so who are we to “profile” . . . are we not human beings who are easily frightened? Is not our principal method of protection “flight or fight”? . . . the very nature of the human is based on self perservation and yet we are to accept the concept of “Moderation” . . . WTF . . . who are those idiots that think for one second that I will not look at a person dressed in such fashion as to obscure his/her identity and not be worried, scared or just run. These days and times I am scared to death that by being “kind and considerate” that I will invite the “crazies” into the country. You damned right I will fight, but there is an instinct to protect and that my friends tells me to “profile in the name of safety”. Want to guess what “safety today is?”
So we are told daily . . . we must reverse our thinking of what the Islamic Faith . . . I say NO WAY . . . I will NOT put my country into HARMS WAY!!!
After all is said and done, Americans have the right to burn books and flags if they wish. If they choose to burn the Koran in America, it is their right. And, inasmuch as one feels the way one does; some Americans feel the way they do. Peace is the respect of the ideas of others, not the stubborn attempt at imposition of ideas on others.
Google Benito Juarez, Mexican president.
This very forum at FloppingAces is an example of peaceful expression of diverse ideas. Let those who feel DISGUST and REPULSION over the Koran express their DISAPPROVAL of the HATRED contain therein by peacefully burning the Koran. American’s are fed up with stealth subversion of our Constitution, as Muslim Obama would have; and Americans are in their majority expressing a will and desire to have NO Sharia anything and call a spade a spade; the Koran is expressed HATRED for the consumption of the gullible.
@ Romeo13..No offense intended but You need to know that stupid shit has consequences and
We do not want that.
My “Band of Brothers 2.0 ” is fighting that War. The GWOT. I have a Medal in my sock drawer for that as I recall.
War is Global Politics, no shit for real and the Current Pretender in Chief skipped that subject.
He is clueless but I thought that you could trust Dave Petraeus and not get emotions in the way.
Have a moment ant trust Professionals, Professional Soldiers and not Amateur Politicians like the Kenyan Elitist Punk in the White House. Temporary Resident by Law.
OK?
Perhaps burning the the Koran, after pissing on it, would enrage the cowardly bastards enough to make them conduct a full frontal charge and allow our superior firepower to drop them like the vermin they are. We made the mistake of kissing the enemies asses in Vietnam and what did we get for it: 58,000 dead and a disgraceful retreat!
Know you enemy and kill his ass. And yes. I exchanged fire in Vietnam and would happily go to Afghanistan if we had learned anything from that fiasco
Chuck
On a side note . . . neither will I do anything that will be so inflamatory as to cause the “CRAZIES” to come to get me either. IMHO . . . It is a not so intelligent thing to do . . . similar to riding your bicyle on a very busy two lane road . . . certainly it is legal to do so . . . but when along comes the person that runs you over and kills you . . . you are just as dead as if you were wrong . . . so let us show a little common sense. I had a lot rather send our troops over yonder to kill them than have them come to my homeland and kill me . . . sad . . . but that my friends is what makes a soldier do his duty . . . I served my time in the military and I was willing to die for my country. The armed forces have my ultimate respect and it is sad that anyone has to give his life . . . but still I had rather it be on foreign soil than on the US of A.
I would like to inform any of the CRAZIES who come here . . . you have a thousand guns pointing at you . . . and in time, if you do your CRAZY thing . . . one of those guns will get you!!! Remember we have the right to keep and bear firearms in the US of A.
Wordsmith, here is my take on it; the Constitution guarantees us the right of freespeech. It does not guarantee to protect us against idiocy. The paster, and his 50 congregants, are idiots, but they still have the right to free speech and free expression. That’s the way the cookie crumbles.
Yes, I disagree with what they propose to do. But do they not have the right to do it? And if those Muslims who are willing to judge ALL Americans by the actions of a few, well, we really haven’t won their “hearts and minds” after all, have we?
We are told we are not to judge all of Islam by the actions of 19 (and then 20, and then 21, etc) yet Petreaus is willing to bow to Muslims who will show their outrage to a stupid action. When do we quit making excuses for those whom no excuse is sufficient? When do we quit cowtowing to Islam, walking on egg shells, fearing we will insult them? When did Muslims become the aggreived when it was America that was attacked almost 9 years ago?
And why is this even an issue. A unknown pastor of a very small church is making headlines because the lamestream media, including Fox, is making a big deal out of it and giving this healline seeking minister his 15 minutes of fame. Not all news is fit to print. This is one instance of that. Had no one reported on him, he would be a non-entity. Instead, I think the media picked this up and ran with a story that once again created victimhood for Muslims. It is what the left wing media does best; create victims.
The pastor is an idiot. His proposed plan is insensitive and shameful. But it is his First Amendment right and if we start placing restrictions on First Amendment rights on some, soon none of us will have any.
>>Have a moment and trust Professionals>>
“If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs…”
Your words make me take heed.
Upon your word…I’d recommend restraint on behalf of those in the line of fire.
For that reason only.
@old trooper 2
Answer this… will we EVER not offend the Muslim religion? Whether its Hollywood, or our Politics, or Israel, or what we did in Lebanon or how we treat, or treated, Iran… or that we drink.. and have freedom of Speech and religion… we will ALWAYS do somthing, somewhere, which they will use as an excuse to get pissed off.
IMO it really does not matter if we don’t burn a Koran, or let them build the victory er Cordoba Mosque, or limit any negative voicing of opinion on Islam…. They will FIND a reason to be angry.
I mean… they made the American Cheerleaders for the International Basketball game with Iran, cover up… because someone MIGHT get offended…
Someone, somewhere, in the West will ALWAYS do somthing they can point at… because so much of what the West believes is the antithesis of what they believe.
And every time we bow to their threats… they grow stronger.
If they do NOT burn the Korans, then Jihadists spin it as a victory of their Anger over the Wests Freedom of Speech…. and from my time in the MidEast, they always bet on the “strong horse”.
If they burn the Korans, they get angry over burning the Korans…
At this point? Loose / Loose.
I would like to hereby copyright a term that just came to mind… if it has not already been used by someone else… did a quick search and did not find it…
Outrage du Jure… or Outrage of the Day….
Thats EXACTLY what this is… next week it will be somthing else…
How about the group burns the korans, and we prohibit the press from covering it? After all…this whole thing _is_ a press arranged “Outrage d’ jour”… Maybe arrange some other Outrage d’jour for them to cover…
Without a big press whoop-di-doo … the pastor could have had his koran burning fest and who would have known? It isn’t really the burning koran that’s the issue, it’s the burning press issue…
I think this might–might being a forlorn hope–get through to a few of the many people who think Islam is a ROP, just like Methodists except their holy day is Friday.
To compare it to the riots over Piss Christ.
Think it will get through?
They burn the Flag…No problem.
They burn effigy of Bush, Obama and Preachers….No Problem.
We burn there qu’ran, then its death to you…..And they tell us to be tolerant !!! Yeah , uh-huh !!
In 2002 some Muslims took over the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem.
They took Christian clergy there as hostages.
They used the oldest illuminated Bible as toilet paper!
These are people who don’t usually even use toilet paper!
They were doing it AS a provocation.
They knew how THEY would feel, if their koran was used thusly.
IF America buckles to the pre-emptive dhimmitude of self-censorship of one another we might as well decide on prayer rugs or jizya tax right now.
Let individual Americans act smartly or stupidly, as they will.
Not every Muslim would use your ancient, revered family Bible as toilet paper, but some will.
Same with Americans and burning or shooting holes through korans.
For me personally . . . the Patriotism, the “Rise to the Occasion” . . . what I see here on FA is a renewal of my belief in America the Great. So now comes the question . . . why can’t a 60 year old enlist in the armed forces, lol! Probably, to patriotic!!! I have lived my life, I have benefitted the most, I have seen the good times, I have seen the bad . . . NOW let me do what I would most willingly do. Serve my country!!!
@Romeo13:
I don’t care to post on the anti-Muslim/Islam issues, but this is an exception. I love reading your posts and on all of the other topics I really appreciate your input….there is a “but” here.
But, it’s not just refraining from offending the Muslims, it’s making our troops job lighter and safer. When General Petraeus warns that this incident could cause harm to our troops, I think it would be important that we discourage this “pastor” from carrying this out, and encourage him to knock it off.
Unfortunately, the press has given this man, unknown a week or so ago, a platform, it’s gone viral, remember the flushed Koran episode that never happened and the fall out?…our troops do not need this incident to happen…at all.
@Romeo13 #50: That would be “outrage du jour.” And I agree. It’s apt.
@Tallgrass:
Aw, the government is probably worried that those in our age group are hooked on Metamucil or worse, we might not need it.
I think you have served over and above and you are naturally the type of man that would go on and on. But, we have young warriors stepping up and carrying on in an outstanding fashion. It is your time to be proud of the groundwork you have laid for them and wish them well. Thank you Tallgrass…for everything you have done for this great nation!
@missy
Sorry… but your cognitive disconnect has me dizzy
If this is not about offending Muslims, then how would it make our Troops job more difficult?
The idea is that if they burn them, more Muslims will get angry at us, and join the Taliban to kill our troops.
I contend that it really does not matter… they are going to be angry anyway, whether over this, or some other contrived insult.
I mean they were angry over a CARTOON! And have tried to kill the cartoonist a couple of times… I don’t think it really matters what we do short of total submission… so why bother.
Beer and P@orno for ALL!
Today Obama strongly condemned the Florida church that plans to burn korans on 9/11. I agree with them, some of you dont and that is fine but hey, isn’t that their religious right under the constitution? The same right he celebrated for the muslims to build their triumphal mega-mosque at Ground Zero? Obama is such a hyprocrite!
This is offensive not just to the religion of the perpetually outraged, they are outraged about everything anyway, but to me as an American as well.
We don’t burn books.
Burning books, holy, political, or “subversive” carries a connotation that reeks of all that we abhor. It’s the mark of a totalitarian mindset.
The same reasoning that makes the GZ mosque such a bad idea holds true for this as well. Just because this pastor has the “right” to do so, doesn’t mean he should.
Old Trooper, you get it. If I’ve never said it before… thank you sir, for your service.
wardogs
@Romeo13:
There are a few of us that have loved ones in the fight, we don’t want it any rougher for them. I also think we can be bigger than that. How many times do we look upon our detractors with discust as they burn our flag. Do we really want to stoop to that level?
Certainly don’t want you to be dizzy, perhaps this might shed some light on what I’m trying to get across.
From Word’s link:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703713504575475500753093116.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLETopStories
@Missy
My son goes to US Navy Bootcamp, starting next Monday…. so I do get it.
Protesters were ALREADY chanting “Death to America”… they were ALREADY throwing rocks at troops… do you really think that Burning Korans really makes a difference with them?
Do you really think this will change anything within the Religion of perpetual outrage? That the Outrage d’ jour really matters?
Many Thanks Missy
Common Sense is a rare commodity these days.
Take Care Lady!
I also note… this…
Its been the American tradition that Generals did not comment on Internal American Politics, that was the place of the Civilian leadership. Those who historicaly did not follow this… folks like Custer… or Patton (about foreign policy), or McAruthur (again foreign policy) were outliers… who were JUSTIFIABLY castigated for their statements…
I’m more aligned with Cincinatus, and George Washington…
That Patreus felt he HAD to comment on this, because the administration would not… says volumes as well.
May I point out that Muslims already are rioting while the qurans have yet to be torched. The wild-eyed barbarian horde is rioting at only the thought of burning qurans. Truth is that no quranic conflagration is needed to enflame muslims. Had the campaign been to get X number of people around the world on a particular day at a particular time to merely envisage vesuvian qurans the resultant reaction of the religion of peace, Submission, would differ by not a single jot.
I’m not advocating an actual quranic holocaust, but the idea is already there, muslims believe it as fait accompli, have effected sans cause, so I don’t see that burning or not burning matters anymore. What’s missing in Western understanding is that muslims don’t hate us for what we do nor for for what we are – infidels. The God of Submission commands death to the unbeliever and that is exactly what is being meted out come hell or high water. It doesn’t matter what we do to mitigate adverse action, with the singular exception of submission.
Somehow, I can’t imagine a debate of the current magnitude at the burning of Mein Kampf for fear of upsetting NAZIs, or burning Mao’s Little Red Book because such would hurt the feelings of a billion Chinese, no one would have been as concerned by the immolation of the Communist Manifesto because doing so might emotionally disturb someone in the USSR.
But that’s all different, Indi! Those books were not the word of GOD. Neither is the quran. Mein Kampf, Little Red Book, Communist Manifesto were all written by men – well meaning and incredibly evil men. The quran was written by a thug, thief, murderer, pedophile – a well meaning and incredibly evil man whose adherents are ready and willing to kill all of us simply because their holy thug says so.
Burn or don’t burn. It no longer matters. The thought is fact.
@old trooper 2
I notice you do not answer my DIRECT question…
Will there ever, in your opinion, be a time when the West does NOT anger those who follow Moh?
I’ve played in staff meetings myself… one tactic is to support those who are of your opinion, while not answering the questions, of those who do not…
How about this…..
Let the nuts burn the Qur’an, then remove the constraints of the ROE placed on our troops and let them kill every Goddamned one of the islamic bastards that set foot within two miles of one of our troops.
If everyone is sooooo concerned with the “safety of our troops”, let them do the frickin’ job they were trained to do.
Hearts and minds my ass.
@Old Trooper 2:
And I thank you OT, all is well.
Dam… once I learned to spell… Outrage d’ Jour… or Outrage du Jour… have both been used on both Hotair, and /shudder…. daily Koss….
Dang… and I was hoping to reitre… again… off the royalties… LOL…
Next time Peterus is in front of a Congressional Committee i want them to ask if Obama asked him to speak out against this issue.
“We shouldn’t have to tip-toe on eggshells around a particular religion and give special preferential treatment to it, not extended to the other faiths.”
Yet we do. Why is Islam the only religion that has to be protected above all others? They use their threats to control us, and we blindly play along. Christianity is not protected from negative comments, etc. It’s OK to burn or stomp our flag, but insult Islam? It is time for someone to have the courage to stand up and tell the truth about Islam. It is not a religion of peace. Do you see how they treat women? The group in the New York mosque controversy is working to get Sharia law in our country. And they are afraid all these negative statements against the mosque will “cause” their young men to do harmfu things. What other religion threatens to harm people if you speak against them? We cannot continue being afraid of them – they are slowly taking control this way! That is what they do everywhere they go – see France and England, just to name two.
Oh, and by the way, do all of you know that Muslims are exempt from having to participate in the insurance program all the rest of us have to have crammed down our throats, and that they have to pay no penalty like any of the rest of us? Do you see how we are bowing to their demands? I say it is time for them to be subjected to everything the rest of us are, or get the heck out of the country.
@Romeo13 #16:
As Old Trooper put it, you’re just throwing gasoline on a fire. Is that really wise? Intentionally provoking for the sake of doing so?
Burkas are endorsed by a very miniscule segment of the Muslim population. And the issue of women’s right in Islam is a bit more complex and varied than the cartoonish, stereotypical picture you draw from.
Define “they”; because I don’t recall 1.5 billion rioting over the ‘toons, calling death to the infidels. Out of the minority who did protest, how many actually rioted and how many protested peaceably, voicing their outrage and exercising their freedom to speak out against what offends them?
@AdrianS #18:
Who is saying you can’t do it? This is like today’s host on Glenn Beck’s radio program this morning who criticized Petraeus for supposedly stifling on the freedom of speech of those who choose to burn books. So what…Petraeus isn’t allowed to exercise his freedom of speech to point out the idiocy and the danger it poses to our troops? In undermining COIN strategy?
Of course your hating on the Koran and calling it garbage has nil effect on pushing anyone over into the jihadi anti-American camp of Islamic loonies.
Yes, Islam (or a segment of its populace) has an anger management problem. Why compound that and intentionally provoke? In giving validity and credibility to al Qaeda’s charge that Muslims are being persecuted by the West?
Burning the Koran doesn’t just “harm” the “radicalized followers”.
What you call a book of hate is revered by many peaceful Muslims around the world. And protests will likely increase with the increased media coverage. In case you missed my link in my first comment, thousands protested in Indonesia. The WSJ link warns that protests may eventually spread to other parts of Afghanistan, to other cities, and puts our war effort in country at risk.
@AdrianS #21:
Why not practice a bit of what you preach? Be the example? You are the hatred and bigotry you rail against.
Not everyone reads the Koran with hatred in their hearts for Jews, Christians, and infidels. Some actually see just the opposite message in their Korans. There are Muslims who see Islam, Jews, and Christians as all “People of the Book”/”Followers of an Earlier Revelation”, because they each received a scripture or a revelation from God. Some Muslims merely see Islam as a continuation of where Judaism and Christianity left off. They recognize Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Noah, and David as important prophets; that Christians, Jews, and Muslims are all descended from Abraham.
Now bin Laden may not read his Koran this way. And it’s those like him who you should surgically aim your cross-hairs at for offense and insults.
I don’t like burning ANY books in this country. I don’t like to see the burning of nations flags in any country. I don’t like seeing Christians beheaded, Splodey bombs blowing up in cafe’s, Muslims outrage over cartoons, or any other bullshit the islamapukes do on a regular basis. IMO this particular issue is one of frustration. Folks are tired of the Islamic “Demands” of us while ignoring the civilized worlds suggestions of them. All we ask is to be respected the way they wish us to respect them. They don’t get that by blowing up innocent folks and doing the 7th century mayhem they are so well known for.
IF these people burning the Koran make them feel better, go ahead. Burn away…IF anyone believes that 50 people in Florida burning a koran is going to cause more or less Islamic violence they are clueless as to why we are fighting.
Sad part is, until the next major attack occurs on our soil, the sheep will still cozy up to the wolf. It’s going to take a lot of DEAD Americans to wake folks up to the danger that is Islam. Of course the MILLIONS of dead by Islamic hands over the last 30 years must not be enough.
@Tammy #24:
Tammy, you might be curious to check out my post on those Muslims who did condemn the 9/11 attacks.
Tammy, I think you are being a good Christian. Someone who does honor to her faith and not playing the tit-for-tat “Well if it’s ok for them to hate and offend, why’s it not right for us to do so as well?”-game of reasoning.
The ones who did attack us on 9/11 was the al Qaeda network and affiliates. Not the whole of Islam. And to broaden the war and lump the whole religion into one camp is exactly what al Qaeda wants to have happen. They want a clash of civilizations and a religious war. Most muslims did not answer their clarion call to jihad. Why give al Qaeda the helping hand?
@Robert #76:
I know muslims who are tired of it too. And they are tired of being lumped together and having perceptions of their faith defined by the backward fundamentalists, Saudi Arabian wahhabists, and the Taliban, Khomeinites, and Islamic takfiri terrorists.
At first, I was against burning Qurans. It seems so — disrespectful.
But, on the other hand — whenever some Muslim fooker goes all jihadi on us Infidels, the “Islamic Professional Apologists” come out of the woodwork to explain to us stoopids that it’s just a “tiny minority of misunderstanders” and we shouldn’t tar all of Peace-Loving Islam because of the actions of the misguided few.
Fair enough.
Let’s announce that America also has a “tiny minority of misunderstanders”.
If we of the Civilized West are supposed to ignore Islamic crazies who blow up trains and restaurants and nightclubs, who fly planes into buildings, who behead Christian schoolgirls, then by G-D those same whiners can STFU about some dingbat burning Qurans.
And if all 1.5 billion Muslims get their panties in a wad and start demonstrating the REAL meaning of “the Peace of Islam” (hint: graveyards are not rowdy places), we’ll have a real-world demonstration of why “tolerating the intolerable” is a very, very bad idea.
Romeo13 ref #50
“de jure” is Latin for “by law”.
I think you’re aiming for “du jour” (French for “of the day”)
So, outrage-of-the-day becomes outrage-du-jour. (Oh, la-la! Bon mot!)
Wordsmith 78, Well when the so-called “Moderates” refuse to condemn or condemn with caveats they deserve the “Lumping”
What we have here is a simple solution, it’s one the Christians use when our religion is “Hijacked” WE STAND AGAINST IT. Have you ever seen a Phred Phelps protest? have you noticed the folks aligned on the opposite side? MOST are church going CHRISTIANS! Ever see “Moderates” protesting outside the radical mosques in our nation? There are several that have been captured on video ranting about jihad, and the infidels and yada yada…
Fact is, since the “Moderates” are not policing their own, they have allowed the hate and the “Lumping” and give the 21st century folks very little to defend.
And before you go talking about the few Muslim orgs that have been speaking out against it. Realize that that there are 1.5 billion Muslims, and according to MANY studies between 2 and 10 percent are RADICALIZED. That’s a HUGE percentage but the opposition between the radicals and “moderates” is very LOW…WHY?
IF they truly opposed it, they need to OPPOSE it consistently, not just when it suits them. I didn’t see a lot of Muslims WEEPING with us on 9-11-2001, I saw far more celebrating in the streets.
Defend the cult if you wish. I’ll keep my powder dry and my eyes open.
@retire05 #47:
Yes, and as I said in an earlier comment (and I believe I alluded or said as much within the post), it’s not a question of whether you have the legal right or not; it’s not about denying you the freedom of expression but the wisdom of it. It’s about those who disagree exercising their freedom to disagree and dissent.
Most Muslims are not going to riot or rage over this. Many will feel offended; many will feel the barbs of bigotry. But many will also react like the Muslim friends of my French-Muslim friend, in my post.
But there is a sizable minority who will react badly; there are others who are “at risk” for radicalization. These include young, disenfranchised Muslim immigrants who may feel alienation and seek identity and belonging. They are ripe pickings for jihadi propaganda and recruitment.
Just look at the amount of anti-American garbage that comes from the non-Islamic world.
I agree. Like the Danish cartoons when first published. And because of the growing media coverage, Petraeus felt the need to comment; and because of his comment, the story gains larger life; and now the WH Gibbs and State Dept have spoken, and yet more coverage. Hopefully, along with that, will be coverage of those Americans and Christians, as well as U.S. government who have condemned Pastor Terry Jones and asked him to relent.
Who is putting a restriction on Jones’ First Amendment right?
And as I cited from the WSJ article:
@Robert #81:
The Myth that the Muslim World Celebrated the Attacks of 9/11
Is the Islamic world rejecting al-Qaeda theology, thanks to the War in Iraq?
@Wordsmith:
When I studied Arabic (after 9-11-01) for two semesters I learned about two types of obligations on Muslims:
One type is on each and every Muslim (much like the commands to love one another and to preach is on all Christians).
The other is on the Muslim community.
We don’t have an obligation in any of our other religions quite like that one.
The little short story, ”The Lottery*” is as close as anything I could find approaching it (and that’s fiction).
Basically one’s Mosque must cough up one son for jihad every now and again is what it boils down to.
When we hear that 1 or 2% of all Muslims engage in violent jihad I recall those two obligations.
I have forgotten which is which, as it’s been a few years…..
One is ~ fard ayn and the other is fard kifayah (in phonetic English).
The one son per Mosque more than accounts for that 1 or 2%.
*http://www.classicshorts.com/stories/lotry.html
hey, but it was ok for the nytimes to disclose our military secrets when president bush was in and not anything has been done about the wiki leak. many military secrets have been leaked since these war efforts have started and put our military in harms way, what has been done? heck, even ayers, personal friend of obama’s and wheater undergrounder that threw bombs at our american police and stomps on our american flag can do whatever and nothing has happened to him.
now let some christians burn the koran and the sky is going to fall. patreaus should fight the war and win it and stop reading the newspaper.
Predictably, Hillary Clinton objected to the potential burning of the Qur’an. She did not object to the building of the mosque. When it came to the mosque, she was insistent about rights. When it comes to the Qur’an burning, rights are no longer and important issue.
We’re not supposed to object to the mosque building because Muslims will be upset. We’re not supposed to burn a Qur’am because Muslims will be upset.
Like it or not, there’s a theme there. It’s always there. Islam is the religion of perpetual outrage, within those other than secular Muslims.
I remember…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU5W-iUv8fg
General Petraeus:
Do not make me rise from the grave and kick your ass. Man up. “There is a time to take counsel of your fears and there is a time to never listen to any fear.”
Don’t get involved in politics. You are expressing a cowardly “conventional wisdom”. Remember, “If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn’t thinking.”
So, “Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.”
De-pussify immediately!
I apologize to our Muslim friends the religion of peace. I too will do as “my” president has done. Extend my hand to them AND MY MIDDLE FINGER AS A SALUTE.
I also would like to see everyone of them at Gitmo be shaved
@Wordsmith #75
That’s exactly the point that you certainly have NOT overlooked. “Not everyone…” But how many are in the “Not everyone” category and how many in the “Kill Jews and Infidels” category. Even moderates who read and worship the Koran are affected in a subliminal way into submission; thinking in the very least that it is OK to HATE or perhaps offer passive support to the radical Islamic terrorists. Therein lies the reason for the objects to the textual content of the Koran. This is what decent Americans and people throughout the world object to: the Koran is HATE.
The concern is that the Koran, read by many Muslims, has a radicalization effect on young minds. Yes, not everyone reacts to the Koranic call for killing Jews and Infidels; however, the one that will kill you will be the one that took the Koran literally.
Get it right or fail forever.
THE FIREFIGHTERs realy know the ABOMINATION of 9/11, they still havent forgot
and AMERICANS owe them a lot.
@Tammy:
It is possible to be on the same side of an issue, but for different reasons. I found the above statement to be vacuous. It is hard to state that without coming off as being insulting. Having been around to see the hippies first hand, I can remember this tripe passing as enlightened educated thought. The fact is, it is just plain wrong. These are the same folks who place those inane COEXIST bumper stickers on their cars. As for boycotts, they rarely work. Boycotts against nations, and or states have never worked. Cuba does ring a bell, and they took a very aggressive stand against us militarily. Does the Cuban Missile Crisis ring a bell? Were it not for the fact that they recognized that they had no chance against us without the help of the Soviets, we would have faced an invasion. As it is, fenceline shootings at Gitmo are not an unheard of occurance. I am not against burning books because I am worried about anyone’s sensabilities. I am against book burning because it shows a great amount of purposeful ignorance on the part of those commiting the arson. We should be reading the Q’ran, which believe me, would result in far harsher feelings towards Muslims in general than already exists today.
As for how I would feel if Muslims were weeping instead of dancing in the aftermath of 9/11, well that question answers itself doesn’t it. That is the whole point of why these idiots wish to burn their living guide in the first place. No other religion on Earth teaches its practioners to worship death and to seek to proslitize via violence. Other religions teach of higher spiritual existence being the reward for behaving well here on Earth. Islam teaches that by killing infidels via means of jihad, the indulgence of our basist physical urges will be the reward of the afterlife. You will never be able to negotiate a peace with people who view it as a sacred duty to end your existence.
It saddens me to say it, but if we fought the Pacific War with the Japanese today and they used the same Kamikaze techniques, we would lose. Why? Because we would not do EVERYTHING we could to win. The bombings would not happen, the sweep and clears of the islands would have ground to halt at the losses we experienced. If by some chance we were able to get to the main island and the entire population rose up against us no American president would drop the Atomic Bombs to end the war. We would let world pressure talk us into signing a peace agreement that left a militaristic Japan licking its wounds and waiting for a rematch for the next 60 years to come.
The past wars, Korea and Vietnam, have shown us that when you half ass a conflict you get no closure and no resolution to what caused the conflict in the first place.
The more we allow the enemy to set the rules and we continue to play by their rules the farther we get from victory. How much longer are we going to be afraid to make others mad at the US? How many more lives are we willing to let die for Political Correctness?
Who burns books?
Stalin
Mussolini
Hitler
PolPot
Kim Jung Il
Kim Jong Un
Fidel Castro
Ayatollah Khomeini
Saddam Hussein
Mao Zedong
Taliban
Al Qaeda
Terry Jones
And now…Many F/A readers and so-called “patriots”….and even worse; Some “Christians”.
The Communist Manifesto and the works of Engels and Marks have killed more through Demicide in 160 years than Islam has in 1400.
Yet that book (and Mein Kampf and Alinski!) are required reading in political-majors classes in every college in this country, and none of you proto-fascists are clamoring to burn those, are you?
My son and I would ask if you could refrain from being book-burners. You won’t be among good company.
I’ve decided for myself that the burning of the Koran in public as a protest against what is contained in that demonic text is the right thing to do. Burn the Koran. Doing right and being moral in objecting to HATE crimes in texts and else where will show the Islamic people and countries just how out of step they are with the rest of the civilized world.
Stoning women, slicing off hands and limbs for crimes as simple as theft, whipping and beating with lashes in public, forcing women to wear burkas even in hot weather, keeping young female children from education because they are objects rather than people, suicide bombings — even Muslim against Muslims, and much more low life, radical, extremist thinking is what the Koran teaches. The only way things will change is if decent people stop and say enough; the Koran is a HATE crime in text.
Get it right or fail forever. Burn the Koran. Do the right thing. Burn the Koran.
@Romeo
I hope that your son has a long and glorious military career. I hope that he serves our country with honor and respect. And I hope that he remains safe and injury free.
Now as far as your thinking on the burning of the Quran. First of all you can’t possibly think that it morally correct to disgrace a religion or a entire race of people because they don’t have the same beliefs as you do. I get your point because we are damned if we do or damned if we don’t. However; it would still be disgraceful to deface a book that means so much to so many.
Does the Quran mean anything to me? Hell no. However; neither does many other religous views that mean alot to most Americans.
Also that doesn’t mean that because we have rights, privileges, and The Constitution (which most Conservatives use to wipe their asses with it until they want it to work in their favor ) here that other countries don’t have that we should give the finger to countries that don’t share our beliefs.
Terry Jones ( no need to call him Pastor or Rev. because a real man of God would know that this is not God’s will ). We are suppose to be better than this.
@Patvann
The difference between those you mention as having burned books and those in Florida who wish to burn the Koran in protest is that those dictators you mention burned books en mass.
Besides many of the books burned were not evil, demonic or had HATE in them. Many were and still are considered classics.
In Florida, members of the book-burning church are protesting against what the Koran says in its text. It is HATE. Burn the Koran, then. It’s the RIGHT thing to do if you are civilized, decent and of moral character. Else, encourage the HATE and the Muslim way of life — which by the way has not produced much if anything in the way of contributions to society, inventions and humanity. Almost all of the inventions of the 19th, 20th, and 21st century have been produced by non-Muslims. Cars, microwaves, radio, computers, television, airplanes, electronics, etc.
We can only wonder why, but it must be the HATE, HATE that consumes those who abide it.
Do the right thing. Burn the Koran. But only if you are decent and have had enough of radicalized Koran terrorists — just as Jesus did with the money-changers at the temple – loose you cool. Enough is enough.
What gets me about burning the book is the idea that those in the church group might not have studied it first.
What do Muslims believe?
This is important.
I know there’s a newer poll but from 2009 one poll found that:
Egypt 81 percent agreed with the al Qaeda goal of “requir[ing] a strict application of Shari’a law in every Islamic country” (65% strongly); only 12 percent disagreed.
Pakistanis 76 percent agreeing with this goal (52% strongly); only 5 percent disagreed.
Morocco 76 percent agreed.
In Egypt, Pakistan, Indonesia, Turkey, Jordan, the Palestinian territories, Azerbaijan, and Nigeria, majorities agree with nearly all of al Qaeda’s goals!
There is wide disagreement only against al Qaeda’s tactics.
This has to be from these people’s familiarity with the koran.
They have little else in common.
@AdrianS #97:
If Terry Jones and possibly yourself had your way and the means to do so, would you not burn every single copy of the Koran?
When you speak about hate, look in the mirror.
@AdrianS #95:
You are soooo sure that you are in the right. You’re like a mirror image of what you fight against.
Please check out my links in comment #74. Most of these practices pre-date Islam and are more localized, cultural practices carried on by traditionally patriarchal, tribal societies.
David Kilcullen’s “Accidental Guerilla” indicates that religion is not a good barometer to predict violence. Graham Fuller’s “A World without Islam” suggests that even if Islam had never come to be, we’d still see much of the dysfunctionality that is being attributed to Islam. (You mention suicide bombings- remember that suicide is forbidden to a mainstream reading of the Koran?- a practice that would still exist without Islam. A Hindu group, the Tamil Tigers, were the first to operationalize the regular usage of suicide vests).
Yes, Afghans need to leave the 7th/12th century. But you’re not going to lead them there by crapping on their religion. Most reject the Taliban’s puritanical fundamentalism; but burning Korans is not going to endear them to allying themselves with those fighting the Taliban. If you lose hearts and minds of the people, wtf are we still doing in Afghanistan?
And if the consequences of all this is the death of innocent civilians and soldiers’ lives- directly as it relates to the book burning- how will you justify your endorsement of it as a worthwhile positive?
@Nan G #98: Sharia does not mean the same thing to all Muslims. There is no universal agreement on what sharia entails:
@Wordsmith #99:
Let me attempt to clarify and backpedal: I don’t mean to compare you as being some kind of moral equivalence to the kind of radical extremists we are both against.
But can you not see the blanket hatred with which you are enveloping an entire group of people under, that have nothing to do with the global jihad movement? Muslims who are victimized by the hatred and intolerance of the Taliban puritanism and al Qaeda violence as much as any infidels are?
I see the never ending Islam battles still rage. And, of course, that there is no separation between jihad and other Muslims. Everyone is either an OBL, or a closet OBL for all too many.
Frankly, it’s no surprise to me that Petraeus finds his job just that much harder with the anti-Islam (not jihad) rhetoric on the rise in the US.
Rides A Pale Horse #6, I might point out that while the troops are certainly in harms way under normal circumstances, such blanket anti-Islam events going on here have effect on those Afghans (and Iraqis) that choose to work with the US troops in concert in the theatre. When they (the Muslim allies that few of you think exist…) start questioning whether the US is at war with jihad, or with Islam itself, the waters get muddied more than usual. And now those in the US military inner circle have a greater probability of questionable trust. That cannot help but translate to a higher degree of risk in an already dangerous theatre.
At the risk of sounding like Capt. Jack Sparrow, do you wave at those moments of irony as they pass you by?
Let’s give you a different angle on the same train of thought. Where’s the American “moderates” condemning the burning of a religious book just so they can offend a minority of violent Islam?
Where’s the “moderates” condemning those who protest the building of mosques anywhere, and not just at ground zero?
Where’s the “moderates” condemning the destruction of the TN mosque?
There’s a few of us here over the course of months, trying to caution the bounds of rhetoric… yet we are abused and disdained for doing so. Just like Wordsmith’s post, pointing out Muslims who have condemned 911, the “moderates” in Islam are brushed off like pesky flies and dismissed. But get serious… rather hypocritical to complain enough “moderate” voices don’t speak up in Islam, and then ignore the hyperbole that consumes all of a religion.
And no… I don’t wish to engage in another elongated debate about how so many infidels are more knowledgeable about the Qu’ran than practicing Muslims, and whether they are “true” Muslims because they don’t seek to kill/convert, as the infidel dictates they are supposed to do. We’ve been there, done that since the beginning of June, and I’d say most of us regulars have figured out where we all are on the war on jihad vs war on Islam debate.
But in the interests of perspectives, let’s flip the Qu’ran bonfire around. What if some fanatical progressives decided to burn the Constitution? Would we see the same nonchalant reaction from many we see here?
Or would you condemn then for doing so, even while recognizing their “rights”?
The “condemnation” is the key. Are rights more treasured because you share the dissent by the protesters? Apparently so. And yet it’s the rights that eat at our craw that the founding fathers were so insistent be protected. The rights of those we disagree with, not agree with.
The fly in your soup, AdrianS, is assuming you are the Chief SCOTUS Justice of what is worthy of being burned, or not. Once you decide that it’s okay to burn books that you consider “evil”, you have now appointed some power to decide what was evil.
Again I say, the Founders and Framers knew very well that protecting the rights of those with unpopular opinions was tantamount for freedom.
I have issues with both approaches you take here, drjohn.
First of all, the Cordoba House and Qu’ran bonfire are not legal apples and apples. Both events have hoops to hurdle before they can take place. The Cordoba House went thru the local planning procedures and got the go ahead.
The Qu’ran bonfire has the right to assemble, but not to burn. Has nothing to do with morality, and everything to do with Florida being a tinderbox at the end of summer, and the risk of major fire from an open burn. All gatherings have to get needed resources for safety and amenities… from Honey Buckets to adequate police protection. Even Beck’s rally pulled and complied with the needed permits.
So Cordoba House is a right with all necessary permits. The Qu’ran bonfire is a right, but not with the necessary permits because it endangers others’ rights and property. Yet, as of today’s news, they appear to want to press forward… fire department approval be damned.
On your second attempt at a hypocritical “gotcha”, no one has *ever* said disapproving of Cordoba House is something you are not “supposed” to do. In fact there is little disagreement INRE it being a really poor and distasteful choice. And requesting restraint in anti-Islam rhetoric has never been (from me, at least) about offending Muslims, but in the interest of some further accomplishment… i.e. not painting the tea party and conservative movement as anti-islam before an important midterm, and not endangering our troops attempting to recruit Muslim aids in the war. It’s only about “offense” to you, I guess.
But oh that it was only confined to Cordoba House, and not a campaign issue for GOP candidates in various states – opposing their local mosques no where near GZ.
The big picture many of you (generic, not individual specific) fail to see is that the common thread in these events lies in a protest not against those that attacked the US on 911, or even against the global Islamic jihad movements…. but are protests against all of Islam in general. And it is this attitude that makes it difficult for our troops and ground commanders to enlist locals in the battle theatre, and be more assured of their trust and intent. Like OT says, “… stupid shit has consequences”.
Again, I suggest you mentally switch the books, and visualize the wide net it encompasses when someone burns the Constitution…. or the Bible…. or any other book that others personally revere.
Now maybe many of you get smug satisfaction in telling all Muslims what you think of them. Me? I happen to think the repercussions far outweigh the personal satisfaction you may derive. Certainly I won’t impose on your rights to express umitigated, blanket hatred. But I’ll also be the first to call you out on it, and if or when consequences happen as a result, I’ll be happy to remind you of the warning you chose to ignore just so you could feel good for a moment.
And speaking of Petraeus and our troops, I’m seriously disappointed at some of the remarks here about a stellar General that… not oh so long ago… the same of you were incensed when he was treated badly by the Dems and Congressional members.
Apparently, now that you don’t agree with him, he’s ostracized as a bad guy. For shame.
His concern and focus is on both our troops safey and effectiveness to win a war that wages not only with guns, but with intel and diplomatic channels. I take what he says with great aplomb because he’s there, and sees the effect one on one. And such commentary against one who deserves not only our respect, but our support, is despicable.
http://www.naijarules.com/vb/news-current-affairs-politics/26124-execution-nigerian-men-women.html
Please see the above link. Public execution is normal in Saudi Arabia, it is typically carried out on Friday, in the public square of the communities where the prisioner is being held in custody. These executions are sentences carried out under Shari’a law as dictated by the Koran. Other punishments include stoning, cutting off of hands, and lashings. The determination of the punishment is by religious judges that are appointed by and under the auspices of Shari’a law.
The Koran, be it in the form of a written document, IMHO, is NOT a book.
It is time for those in this “isolated” seqment of the globe that we call the United States to say NO!!! NO to Islam!!! No to the Muslim LIARS!!! No to the murderers of their OWN people.
The United States just does not comprehend the CULTURE of ISLAM. It is beyond our comprehension and the only way to stop the propogation of the heinous evil that it represents is to SAY NO!!
NO!!! NO!!!
IF burning the KORAN is saying NO . . . then BURN IT!!!
Ref88 – General George S. Patton – Exactly! The good General Petraeus has become pussified in the sevice of the Obama regime. There are no hearts and minds to be won with people who believe in the tenets of the Quran. The person who thought that program up obviously didn’t read that book. Petraeus can best help this country become a safer place when he realizes we are at war with all of Islam and alows our troops to kill the muslims that need to be killed so we can finally get the hell out of there.
I would say I understand the sentiment, but seriously? Burning another religion’s book? It’s childish. A lot of posters have intimated that everything we do offends muslims, and I agree. But still, burning a book is just ignorant. If you want to make a point and really piss them off, have a national “nude women to piss off muslims” day. Hell, I’d take the day off for that.
And on a more serious note, check out this interview of Dr. Jasser. You will not be disappointed. He’s a devout Muslim and a retired U.S. Navy Lt. Commander.
http://dailycaller.com/2010/09/08/8-questions-with-dr-zuhdi-jasser-of-the-american-islamic-forum-for-democracy/
Jasser is, as you say, never a disappointment, Aqua. However the comment below will be very disappointing to the self-annointed Qu’ran experts:
Of course, the good General is part of the same Army brass that looked after the well-being of the troops at Fort Hood by giving a commission to Nidal Hasan, promoting him to Major, and providing him with a very expensive and prestigious education before unleashing him on disarmed soldiers. Pastor Jones should assert that the Koran-incineration is an exhibition of performance art and demand an NEA grant.
I beleive that the fact that the troups have been there so long, had shifted the way they see that war, DID they lost the reason why they are there?. IT might be; the focus of the war,
was destroy the ENNEMIES, and now is modified to get the ennemies to join the KARZEI
group which have been found CORRUPT, and having deals with ennemies,
so they better step back and refocus of why some of the braves are being killed;
and do that soon, IT’S a PRIORITY of WAR STRATEGY.
WHY should this war be to accomodate the MUSLIMS?,just like THE AMERICANS
have been imposed change in all walk of life, in their public testament of their religion,
to accomodate the MUSLIMS; SO not to OFFEND they have public employes to restrain
A preacher to mention JESUS in a prayer publicly,and so on, why do AMERICAN
AND NATO military have to restrain the war?.
THEY better step back, and refocus, BECAUSE our soldiers are not EXPANDEBLE ANYMORE than the ENNEMIES and CIVILENS of the warzone, LET IT BE VERY clear TO ALL CONCERNED.
Tammy said:
I too am in agreement with the author of this article. There is no good in burning books. It makes us look like zealots. This is never the answer.
Of course not…except for when they are burning Bibles,Cruzifixes and American flags!!!!
Quran Burning Church Linked To West Baptist Church
So to show them that we’re “better”, we will lower ourselves to their level of behavior.
As Detective Harry Calahan would say:
“Yea… Marvelous.”
PATVANN: hi, I think that AMERICANS have enough of their offensives behavior, and some will use any tool they can to give them the message, because the leader of THIS GREAT AMERICA doesnt do his job to strongly represent AMERICA and confront thoses who want to push their religion of hate in AMERICA, and leave a strong message to the muslims abroad also.
Yes, it’s a spoof.
Yes, it’s pretty funny.
Roll the tape:
This about says it:
http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2010/09/let-me-see-if-i-got-this-straight.html
“about says” what, Suek? First of all, America is not Saudi Arabia. And I think you are well aware by now that the opposition to Cordoba House is not confined to only that location, and is now a campaign issue for local GOP candidates, opposing mosques in their backyards.
I’ve still yet to hear anyone do that all important “condemnation” of those that torched the TN mosque location. On the contrary, there’s been a few on these threads who have suggested the same be done for Cordoba House.
suek: hi, this is another of your good link,incredible and leave one disturb about the future
of free countrys, I heard my sister telling me that in the province of QUEBEC,in MONTREAL city, the GOVERNMENT has now put some rules that has passed about the restriction they order to the MUSLIMS where they are allowed or not to wear their burka,and others restrictions too.
that’s one good thing done, they are many of them in the QUEBEC PROVINCE.
bye thank you for the news
I think #112 “ilovebeeswarzone” may have a point.
There is NO country in the West where it is “socially acceptable” to discuss the cultural upheavals caused by allowing great numbers of Muslims to immigrate from their repressive societies into our open and tolerant societies. Islam is dysfunctional when transplanted into the West, and most Muslim immigrants insist on maintaining their familiar customs within Islamic enclaves rather than integrating into Western culture. Yet it is considered improper to comment on their lack of assimilation, or their hostility to the norms of their new country. Some EU nations have passed “hate speech” laws, the rest just rely on media pressure and the declarations of the ruling elites to convince their citizens that they prove themselves narrow-minded, bigoted, and xenophobic if they dare say anything derogatory about Islam or Muslims. “Diversity is essential”, they are told.
Not coincidentally, our own General Casey said much the same thing after the Ft. Hood shooter went on his rampage: “As great a tragedy as this was, it would be a shame if our diversity became a casualty as well.”
What happens when people can’t acknowledge a problem and find a solution for it? What happens when the government, whose duty it is to provide national security, pretends that there’s no reason to pay attention to the one commonality among all the terrorist attacks and attempted attacks that have occurred on our soil since 9/11/01? What happens when honorable citizens are pressured by government and media into ignoring that great big elephant in the middle of the room?
Even though the powers-that-be are apparently arrayed against the common sense of We-The-People, we still are aware that something is wrong with Islam; and we know that the “something” is a danger to us, to our families, and to our country. If our government chooses not to speak and act on our behalf, we are strong enough, stubborn enough, and independent enough to speak and act in what we see as our own best interests, despite the lack of guidance from our leaders.
The various measures we see –of citizens rallying against the perceived evils of Islam in a dozen different ways– is only what you can expect WHEN A FRUSTRATED POPULACE FEELS THEY HAVE NO REPRESENTATION, NO LEADERSHIP, REGARDING A *CRITICALLY* IMPORTANT PROBLEM.
I sure hope GENERAL PETRAUS put the troups on 24 alert and double the rockets ammunitions,
BECAUSE those haters are already on the march with menacing slogans,
and no KORAN have yet to be burn,
so the troops should not have to ask for identification at this point of time,
and forget the roe also, it’s a war and they are not baby sitters,
we want them to do their jobs and finish it and come back to their loveone,
AND GENERAL give them what they need,for it YOU know best what is required.
no
more uncertanty for our braves,let them fight
For your consideration:
Islam is not a religion, it is foreign law
By JR Dieckmann, from RenewAmerica.com
The time has come to question if Islam is protected under our First Amendment rights to freedom of religion. Yes, everyone in America has the right to freedom of religion, but Islam is not a religion. Religious faith is only a part of Islam. The rest is a socially engineered society with its own laws and customs that seriously conflict with American law.
Is Great Britain a religion because they have the Church of England? Of course not. Britain has an established charter, civil and criminal laws, and a society that respects those laws. Islam has the Qur’an that provides the governing charter, complete with laws, punishment, and social behavior for its people in addition to its religious teachings. If Islam is a religion, then Britain is also.
We must recognize that religion is only one aspect of Islam’s Qur’an. The rest of this charter advances ideas, social behavior, and laws that are in direct conflict with American and western laws and values. Teddy Roosevelt once said that to live in America, immigrants must have undivided loyalty to America and to no one else. How is that possible for Muslims who swear loyalty to Islam where their governing laws are found in the Qur’an?
….
Islamists know they cannot destroy us militarily, but they also know that they can do it with political correctness and insisting that we respect their freedom of religion, even though they have no respect for ours. We are extending a welcoming hand to the enemy of our country and western culture under the pretense of religious freedom.
What religion recruits killers and terrorists in their place of worship, then sends them off to foreign training grounds to become proficient at mass murder? I know of only one. They are taught to kill in the name of God, but this is not the law of God who commanded “thou shall not kill” — it is the law of Mohammed who commanded “kill them all who will not convert.”
(emphasis added by me)(for more use link that follows)
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/dieckmann/100901
Petraeus: Church that’s burning Korans on 9/11 is putting U.S. troops at risk; Update: Counter-protests planned
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/09/07/petraeus-church-thats-burning-korans-on-911-is-putting-u-s-troops-at-risk/
Is Barack Obama a traitor?:
Barack Obama made this comment when he wrote in “Dreams Of My Father” — “When the political winds shift in an ugly direction, I will side with the Muslims?”
Now does your mother know Barack Hussein Obama is a Muslim?
Get it right or fail forever.
@AdrianS, religion isn’t the only 1st Amendment protection. All free speech, including politics you don’t like, is also covered under the 1st Amendment. So what’s your point? Or do you let Jen Shroder do the deep thinking?
From Old Trooper’s link:
Gee… wonder how many times Muslims have thought that to themselves, when painted the same color as the global Islamic jihad movements? Young Mohammed, the subject of Wordsmith’s post perhaps?
Really, Indigo? “Rioting”? Well maybe I’m missing something, but I see demonstrations, not riots.
Exaggerating for effect much?
@AdrianS:
That’s patently false and deliberately misleading Adrian.
Do some research and, as you say, “Get it right.”
Even if he is a Muslim, what’s your point? Is he prohibited by the Constitution from serving due to his faith, or lack thereof?
The answer is no. There is no religious test for serving in the office of POTUS.
So what, precisely, is your point?
The actual quote from the book (Obama, “Dreams Of My Father”) is from page 261 and is as follows:
“Of course, not all my conversations in immigrant communities follow this easy pattern. In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific reassurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.”
http://righttruth.typepad.com/right_truth/2008/02/i-will-stand-wi.html
Got it Right!
No you didn’t.
Care to try again?
BREAKING: Qu’ran Burning Church Linked To Westboro Baptist Church–UPDATED
http://libertypundits.net/article/breaking-quran-burning-church-linked-to-west-baptist-church/
********************************************************
So this info really solidifies the Book Burning Preacher’s stance????
Come on Folks…. this is Jackassery of the lowest order.
AdrianS I’ll help you man. Where in that quote from page 261 do you see the word Muslim.Are you a birther? Do you think you could stand toe to toe with Dave Petraeus?
Just askin
@rich wheeler:
Now rich, don’t go helping Adrian…
I want her to do her own research and come up with her own answers.
It’s so much more fun that way.
About standing toe to toe with Dave Petraeus….
IF all this church wants to do is burn a few korans and yet Gen Petraeus is ordering American men to KILL Muslims every day, WHICH is pissing off Muslims around the world more?
Who really thinks we will buy any tiny bit of goodwill by NOT allowing the Constitutional rights of our own citizens?
http://www.theonion.com/articles/man-already-knows-everything-he-needs-to-know-abou,17990/
I told an atheist on another thread that I would never attack another man’s religion to avoid being a bore. I am afraid burning the Quran will accomplish nothing except to alienate the few Muslim allies that we have. If that seems a small price to pay, we might think of the intelligence gathering that is so valuable during a war effort and how those assets might be lost or compromised. Wars are not fought strictly from the barrel of a rifle. Intelligence gathering or lack of is measured in blood, the blood of our young patriots.
If another country trashes a symbol that is sacred to the US, they will only strengthen our resolve and create resentment that will last for generations. The benefits of burning a religious book are negligible at best, if they exist.
I trust in Petraeus when he says we will jeopardize American lives and those of our allies by this spiteful act that seems as ludicrous as burning crosses on people’s lawns. Fifty years later, the images of burning crosses, on lawns, only cause shame and remorse for Americans.
We are in the Middle East to kill the enemy, not to enrage a group of people who are uninvolved in the conflict.
AdrianS My apologies asking a lady to stand toe to toe with the good General.I have seen other MALE bloggers question his cajones.You know who you are so the question goes out to you.
A.C. Sorry to spoil your fun. I know how much you enjoy it!
@Patvann:
Who practices book burning?
Well according to Acts chapter 19 in the Bible,
Christians!
Well… uh… er… it’s other Muslims working with the US and NATO forces to kill those bad flavored Muslims because they are holding their villages hostage, Nan G. So the only Muslims ticked about killing jihadists are the other jihadists.
On the flip side, too many Americans are slamming every Muslim as a closet jihad recruit.
… fish in a barrel….
Forgot to mention this in my prior comment to Nan G. You make it sound like the Palestinian militants deliberately went there to “take over” the church.
In actuality, some were bad guys who, like many bad guys before them, fled to the church for shelter when cornered. Others were civilians who fled there to avoid the firefights when the Israelis rolled in for Operation Defense Shield. This was after they saw their mosque, across the street, bombed. Hang… they (the Palestinians who *were* the militants) weren’t even all there for the same reason. It was a group of misfit militants, totally disorganized and dumber than dirt…. combined with civilians. The church gave sanctuary to all.
Oddly enough, both the Vatican/Pope and the British jumped on the Israelis about the handling of that event. This was also the same time they got Arafat holed up in his compound, attempting to get the increased suicide bombings under control.
As for the toilet paper “oldest Bible” embellishment, the church has never stated that but did say that some items that looked valuable were taken. Never that such a valuable heirloom was desecreated. And some of those were found returned in the parking lot laters. Your toilet paper is a WorldNetDaily tidbit that is unconfirmed hype… and tasty embellishment for those willing to believe anything sans proof. Of course the WND also said the terrorists guzzled Johnnie Walker, beer and wine.
Suggest you read up on history before rattling off half truths and misinforming many on recent historical events. Dang… even Wiki has it closer to reality than you.
@A_Nonny_Mouse #117: Links for you to check out in this comment regarding Muslim immigrants in the U.S. and Europe and how they assimilate: