The utter hypocrisy in our media and on the left is on display with the above graph.
The United States has now lost more military men and women in Afghanistan under President Obama than during 8 years of the Bush Administration.
We couldn’t go a day without frontpage headlines emblazoned across every paper and on every nightly newscast about the death toll in Iraq. Each new report vilifying Bush.
Now?
Not so much blame for our current President.
Hmmmmm, I wonder why?
Proof at Say Anything:
A couple of years ago, every casualty in Iraq was front page news. Tallies of casualties could be seen on the front pages of newspapers, commentators would slowly recite the names of the fallen, even Doonesbury would print a list in the Sunday comics. It was Bush’s war then, and people needed to see just how heartless he was wasting the precious lives of our service men and women over there!
Where is Code Pink? Where are the Cindy Sheehans of the Left? Why is no one camped out on the road to Martha’s Vineyard, or his Hawaiian vacation villa, or the many golf courses he frequents? Is it that there are just too many of them? Or was it never really about the deaths of soldiers for the Left? Was it all just a crass excuse to try to gain and retain political power for themselves and their cronies by playing on our sympathies?
Hopey-Changey got elected and now the death count ain’t all that big a deal.
Ridiculous hypocrisy.
Of course it is not a big deal, but, only to the lostleft among us. If they had brains (think about this for a moment) they’d be a very dangerous bunch. They are just way into themselves to bother with other, let alone the very individuals that protect their freedoms. I wish there was a pill that would cure their derangement but there is none and the least we can do for them is pray to the Almighty for his compassion upon their souls.
The pretender-n-theif is one of those lost souls, to think he obides to a ideology that was dedicated to satin alone is a scarey enough now add to the mix the influences he has over several groups of victims, that could lead to many deaths of others of weak mind. Now, who is the weaker mind here, those who salivate over his personality and actions of those who oppose?
Gone are the days of the fence sitters. You are either an American with a can-do mentality, or you are going to pay a heavy price for your lost soul of the alinsky ideology.
Curt: Thanks for the link! It’s hard not to call it hypocrisy when there is no moral outrage over “Clinton’s war”, outrage out the wazoo over George Bush, and then a certain cowardly silence when a Democrat assumes the Oval Office again.
I like to go to this site because it’s a great place to find out what conservatives are saying. I usually only lurk, knowing my perspective isn’t really appreciated (I hear liberalism isn’t a difference of political opinion to some, but a “derangement”), but then sometimes I get a few beers in me and I think, what the hell, maybe y’all care.
If you actually do care about what the left is thinking and are open to a more nuanced view than “all liberals are evil hypocrites,” then I’ll tell you that most on the left are on a spectrum. There’s the disappointment on the center left and cynicism of the far left, who only voted for BO because farther left candidates didn’t have the charisma or the real-politik to play the dirty game of presidential elections.
US troop losses in Iraq will be far lower in the BO years than under the GB years for the same obvious reasons that they’re up now in Afghanistan. That is, there are less troops driving around to get hit with IEDs in Iraq and more troops to be ambushed in Afghanistan. But why less media coverage? Is there really less outrage?
From where I stand, I say decidedly no. Whereas before there was a binary situation, with outraged liberals and pro-war conservatives and frustration about our presence in Iraq (considered overwhelmingly in the left as an illegitimate war), now there’s a buffer of moderate semi-hawk democrats who consider Afghanistan the “good war,” the only war we should have entered to begin with.
Is it a liberal conspiracy that this is getting less attention than during the GW presidency? Sure, maybe, but then there’s other factors. Like war weariness meaning people just don’t consider it newsworthy anymore, Afghanistan approaching it’s 10th year. And the bad news from around the world and at home that keeps piling up. And anyway, most of the actually liberal media (that “professional left that Gibbs decried recently like Democracy Now and R.Maddow) is attacking BO for being like GW but with a more pleasant tone.
Where is Cindy Sheehan? She’s screaming that our withdrawal from Iraq is a quiet version of “mission accomplished,” with a huge permanent remaining US presence including an embassy bigger than the Vatican that must be protected, 10s of thousands of armed troops including special forces assassin squads and 100s of thousands of private military contractors. She didn’t curl up just because a democrat got elected, but she’s not getting attention anymore.
Just because a right wing blogger doesn’t hear about anti-war protesters in the much maligned MSM doesn’t mean that anger over body-counts, nation building and being over-extended in foreign entanglements is gone. If anything, this should just go to show that the MSM isn’t the left’s pet. Plenty of media companies have a vested interest in a return to constant yet sustainable “low level” conflict.
If there was one thing, that I hoped electing a democrat prez would do, that would be shutting up the antiwar hypocrites. And it did.
They said very little about Iraq during it’s first couple of years, and in-fact supported it. (I have too many quotes that support this, so don’t bother), but as soon as Bush was re-elected, the leftist politicians jumped whole hog over to the side of the “fringe”, and turned it into a mainstream platform.
They wanted to lose the war for political reasons, and the enemy was thus motivated, and the Iraqi people de-motivated…along with our troops.
It took the surge to convince both the enemy and the Iraqis, that Bush meant what he said, and that the Left’s cynical and treasonous actions would have to be overcome by our troops dieing some more. And die, they did.
There ARE no anti-war protests for the MSM to pander to, and if there was, they would ignore it. CodePink is onto getting Brown elected now, and has cut off funding Sheehan. Like we already knew, she was only a cheap tool for them.
We “rightwing bloggers” don’t get our info from the MSM. We tossed them years ago, and we sure have no hesitation to going over and reading what leftist’s write in their blogs.
We on the Right never once assumed the MSM was the the Left’s “pet”.
-We KNOW they are one in the same, and have been since Duranty.
If the anger isn’t gone, it’s sure as hell dormant. If there was a tenth of the outrage shown over “Bush’s war” the MSM couldn’t help but stumble over it.
The “convictions” of the anti-war left are either less than genuine, or trumped by liberal politics. (Or both)
Neither is appealing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIw-BP4zfW4&feature=player_embedded#!
The “right” wept and pressed forward.
The “left” saw a chance at political gain, and now wonders why we hate them so.
More tears, thanks for sharing Pat. Right after watching this I clicked onto the video of the young vet addressing Obama. He was endorsing McCain, but his message to Obama before his endorsement was what I believe is in the hearts of our warriors. With a few words he says a lot.
PV: Where do they come from?
And the Bitch from Code Pink says they deserve to die! Never forget her and the traitorous scum she fronts for!
They come from our mind-numbing
educationindoctrination system, and later given regular booster shots through ourmediapropaganda industry. Together with the power-hungry cynical democrat politicians who keep their monster well-fed and protected.My “favorite” CodePinko modus, was to stand outside the Vet hospital making a racket so that the healing warriors couldn’t sleep.
In a nearby city where we have a store, there was an anti-war demonstration with “Bring home the Troops” signs carried by the demonstrators on the first Friday of every month – until O was elected.
There hasn’t been one since.
Code Pink at Walter Reed:
Remember that name, Kevin McCarron.
A wounded vet responds to CP protests:
http://baldilocks.typepad.com/baldilocks/2005/08/dissecting_code.html
Watch the discusting video:
http://clipshack.com/Clip.aspx?key=787B703E2CB8DB3F
Afghanistan was sideshow under Bush. That is one of the causes of the problems that we are facing now in Afghanistan. Bush allowed the Taliban to regroup and rearm. We are now fighting a much stronger Taliban and even with those extra troops that bush refused to send and that Obama has sent things are not going well. Americans are just fed up with those 2 wars that Bush started and after 8 years could not finish
There was far more outrage on the left over Iraq because were invading a nation that hadn’t attacked us, had no real capability of attacking us, and had no apparent connection with the people who had done so. The invasion was something that had to be sold to the American public. That was done with a carefully orchestrated media campaign, using questionable intelligence and alarming threat assessments to deliberately pump up the level of fear that existed subsequent to 9/11. There’s also the incontrovertible fact that “regime change” in Iraq was a stated part of the Neocon agenda before 9/11, and before Bush and Cheney were even elected. That agenda was clearly spelled out by The Project for the New American Century, of which Dick Cheney was a founding member. 9/11, though having no connection with Iraq or Saddam Hussein, provided them with the opportunity they’d been waiting for.
Attitudes about Afghanistan–for most of the Bush years a comparitively forgotten war–are understandably different. Afghanistan was where the people who had attacked us were. It was their primary focus. They were based there, recruiting from there, and training there, all with the support and cooperation of the Taliban. It’s where our fullest attention should have been focused from the start, when containment and elimination were possible.
The Iraq agenda wasn’t Obama’s or that of the political left, nor was it Obama who neglected to take care of our proper and urgent business in Afganistan in order to pursue it. It is Obama–and American soldiers–who have to deal with all of the consequences.
As with everything else, Obama is getting very little support from conservatives in that effort. Concerns about Afghanistan are secondary to conservative politics. Afghanistan military efforts–whatever they are–will be depicted as wrong-headed and failing if Obama can be tarred with the same brush. Obama can be allowed no victories, anywhere or anytime.
Bush–a wartime president–had his protesters. Obama–also a wartime president–has the Tea Parties.
“Greg,” you lying sack of crap. Regime change in Iraq has been official US policy since the Clinton Administration:
http://www.freedomagenda.com/iraq/wmd_quotes.html
@Greg:
That’s right. The “regime change” idea was supported and signed into law by Bill Clinton who was hardly a neo-con.
You should read what US District Court Judge Harold Baer, Jr. had to say about that when he ruled that Iraq did indeed have a connection to Al Qaeda and 9/11.
There’s a difference. I don’t think what President Clinton had in mind was the full-scale military invasion of a nation that hadn’t attacked us and was not preparing to go to war with us.
It took the Bush Doctrine to turn our nation into something it had never been before.
U.S. District Judge Harold Baer might rule that the Moon is made of green cheese. That wouldn’t make it so.
@Ryan
Please show the relevant data that Afghanistan was anything BUT slow and contained during the Iraq war. Engagements, attacks, deaths, etc. will do.
You can’t. Cuz the bad-guys were in Iraq.
@Greg
President Clinton made into LAW that the official position of America was regime change in Iraq.
Don’t you idiots EVER get tired of letting people think for you?
As far as this “neocon agenda” that you so willfully parrot, try doing your own goddam reading for once.
Here is Secretary of State Madeline Albright, speaking in 1998:
Here is Sandy Berger, Clinton’s National Security Adviser:
Clinton’s Secretary of Defense, William Cohen was so sure Saddam had stockpiles of WMD that he remained “absolutely convinced” of it even after our failure to find them in the wake of the invasion in March 2003.
Nor did leading Democrats in Congress entertain any doubts on this score. A few months after Clinton and his people made the statements I have just quoted, a group of Democratic Senators, including such liberals as Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, and John Kerry, urged the President…
Nancy Pelosi, the future leader of the Democrats in the House, and then a member of the House Intelligence Committee, added her voice to the chorus:
In a letter to the new President (Bush), a number of Senators led by Bob Graham declared:
Senator Carl Levin also reaffirmed for Bush’s benefit what he had told Clinton some years earlier:
Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton agreed, speaking in October 2002:
Senator Jay Rockefeller, vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, agreed as well:
Al Gore in September 2002:
And here is Gore again, in that same year:
Now to John Kerry, also speaking in 2002:
Senators Ted Kennedy and Robert Byrd, also in 2002:
The last two years of the Clinton administration, editorials in the New York Times repeatedly insisted that without further outside intervention, Iraq should be able to rebuild weapons and missile plants within a year [and] future military attacks may be required to diminish the arsenal again.
The Times was also skeptical of negotiations, pointing out that it was:
The Washington Post, which greeted the inauguration of George W. Bush in January 2001 with the admonition that:
All this should surely suffice to prove far beyond any even unreasonable doubt that Bush was telling what he believed to be the truth about Saddam’s stockpile of WMD. It also disposes of the fallback charge that Bush lied by exaggerating or hyping the intelligence presented to him. Why on earth would he have done so when the intelligence itself was so compelling that it convinced everyone who had direct access to it, and when hardly anyone in the world believed that Saddam had, as he claimed, complied with the sixteen resolutions of the Security Council demanding that he get rid of his weapons of mass destruction?
I am sick to death with your sides willfully ignorant, and conveniently-forgetful tripe.
Shut the fuck up, about which you refuse to learn about, even after 19 years of documented history.
Removing a sovereign government is not an act of war? Do tell, “Greg.” Do tell.
And more to the point, this is what you wrote:
“Regime change” was initiated as a deep dark neo-con conspiracy, according to you. Fail.
PATVANN your 17teen is super informative to us and any libtard who come here
blaming PRESIDENT BUSH all the time. thank you, bye
GREG IT took president BUSH after the 9/11 3000 death and those hurt for life to mustard that war with SHOCk and AW,
so they remember, NOT WITH THE RULES OF ENGAGEMENT, which killed more of our owns.
Whatever.
The bottom line is that most of our attention and efforts were diverted away from a war theater where we knew with certainty al Qaeda was, to start and pursue another war based upon little more than paranoid speculation. So now here we are, 7 years later, praising the administration that made that call, while blaming and condemning another that has to deal with the consequences.
To my way of thinking, it isn’t so clear who it is that has failed to learn what. I’m not ready to give the keys back to people who can’t even grasp the possibility that they might have made some mistakes. That incapacity seems to exist across a wide range of important issues. As near as I can judge from what they’re telling me, no conservative position about anything has ever been wrong, and no liberal position or decision can ever be right.
Greg, read through this web site and then try to tell me that the Republicans were more pro-Iraq-invasion than the Democrats: http://www.freedomagenda.com/iraq/wmd_quotes.html
Amnesia is not an argument, it’s a mental condition.
@Greg:
Have you ever bothered to check out the sidebar on the right of the page? Highlighted Posts? Iraq? Hint, they are there for a reason.
A tremendous amount of study and work went into all the pieces put together by the Flopping Aces authors when writing about OIF. Scott Malensk even authored several books after much research and staying on top of everything, Congressional hearing, every Pentagon report, everything. Studied it all thoroughly.
Here’s a start for you, an opportunity, there’s much more in the archives.
@Greg:
Whatever? Paranoid speculation?
Dood! Come on. You’ve been on this site long enough to know better than to try and get away with that foolishness.
The archives here at FA are filled to the brim with documented evidence regarding Iraq, Al Qaeda, and 9/11. All you have to do is just look.
But, of course, you’re not really interested in looking for the truth. Not really. Because such a journey of discovery would endanger the delicate mindset that you have selected to shield yourself under.
Saddam, for years and years, aided and abetted terrorists. He shielded and sheltered and assisted those who would go out and shed innocent blood. He paid the families of suicide bombers in return for those people being willing to go out and blow themselves up.
He provided safe harbor and allowed terrorists to train on his soil.
Saddam played cat and mouse games with the UN for years until, finally, in the aftermath of 9/11 the potential of a WMD attack on our shores was too great to ignore any longer.
It amazes me that otherwise intelligent individuals cannot, or will not, simply look at the evidence, both what we knew before the invasion as well as what we have discovered post-invasion.
The evidence to support the decision simply based on the WMD issues alone was enough to justify our intervention and, yes, there was a WMD threat. Saddam was simply waiting and watching, hoping that the world would lose interest in him so that he could go right back to working on what he intended to accomplish.
The repeated and continued violations of the UN resolutions were justification.
As much as anything, however, our intervention was justified on the basis of humanitarian reasons if nothing else.
Because of the valiant efforts and sacrifices of our men and women in uniform no longer are there rape rooms and torture chambers in operation in Iraq.
No longer are Saddams’ evil sons feeding people to lions or running them through wood chippers.
No longer are people disappearing in the middle of the night, never to be seen again.
No longer are men being bound and thrown off of rooftops.
The mass graves are no longer being filled.
The Kurds are no longer facing another attempt at genocide.
The marsh Arabs are no longer being threatened to the point of extinction.
The people of Iraq deserved to be free just as much as any other group of people on earth and I’m proud to say that America had a role in helping these people as they were being crushed under the boot of Saddam.
Furthermore, as a direct result of our efforts in Iraq, Libya came clean and got rid of its’ WMD program.
Also, as a direct result of our actions in Iraq, the AQ Kahn nuclear network has been shut down.
In summary, the world is a better place now that the Hussein family lies a-moldering in their graves and 30 million people are breathing freedom for the first time in the history of Iraq.
Yes, Greg, freedom and liberty are still things that are worthy of fighting for even if its’ not your neck that is being crushed.
@Greg:
@Aye Chihuahua, #24:
Differing views notwithstanding, there’s much in that post that’s hard to disagree with, and that I’m not even inclined to disagree with.
There’s got to be some balance with our own national interests, though. I don’t think we can take on every evil, and right all of the wrongs of the world, without serious danger of bringing ourselves to ruin. The internal stresses and fracture lines are alarming already. A lot of them revolve around the consequences of financial costs.
I think nature, or an Iraqi bullet, would have seen to regime at some point. The second possibility might have been expedited for considerably less than the cost of an invasion. His son’s were too crazy and had too many enemies to survive him by long. In the case of North Korea, nature will possibly bring regime change before the year is out. If not, certainly next year.
We could go around in circles about who said what, and when, and why, forever. I guess I’ll leave off for a while with those general observations.
I guess I’ll leave off for a while with those general observations. ~ greg
… Or at least wait until the next Republican president is installed, so you can start blaming him for the mess carter and obummer created / are creating in Iran.
@Greg
No, you’d rather continue to keep them in the hands of people who are damaging this country more than the ‘neo-cons’ ever dreamed of.
No, you have that wrong. We don’t think that a liberal position or decision cannot ever be right. We think that no liberal decision or position has been right thus far, and we see no end to that trend. Big difference.
Hmm. Another debate that you backed away from your initial claims and now are running away from. It may be mean on my part, but I’m just about as angry as Patvann is discussing issues with the ignorant and the intellectually dishonest. Even after pages upon pages, links upon links, debates upon debates, you and your liberal friends do not get it, so we conservatives are left with thinking that you never will get it. As Patvann has stated, don’t you ever get tired of not thinking for yourself?
@Otter, #27:
The Bush administration missed the boat when they rebuffed Mohammad Khatami’s offers for negotiations and reconciliation, back in 2003. Khatami was a moderate and a social reformer. Now we’ve got Ahmadinejad to deal with. File under Opportunities Missed.
@ johngalt, #28:
“Another debate that you backed away from your initial claims and now are running away from.”
I said what I wanted to say, which was probably more than many wanted to hear to begin with. I wouldn’t even have said that, had it not been implied that Obama is taking the mission in Afghanistan less seriously than his predecessor.
@Greg
Shall I now be force to utterly and completely destroy you with several megabites worth of a thing around here we call EVIDENCE of that “moderate Iranian rebuff”?!?!
Please say yes, then start a different Reader Post, you coward. Please God say yes.
We see in post 26 that tiny little glimmer of reality, history, and evidence entering what’s left of your brain, and just as your ‘ID” accepts this new paradigm, some internal demon comes to the fore, and attempts to divert us into Iran. If we now take this bait, your damaged and now exposed little self will feel safe again from the prying eyes of acceptance.
TO THE SHALLOW END WITH YOU!!!
Maybe it’s better if we just pretend Otter never fired one off about Iran and I never fired back, out of consideration for the thread author and everyone else. We could probably look at the same facts and come to different conclusions anyway.
@Greg
Really? Where does anyone say that? I don’t think that I read anywhere in this post topic where anyone even addressed Obama specifically on Afghanistan. I did read where the casualty rates were such a large deal in the media during Bush’s terms, but nary a peep during Obama’s.
As for backing away, you were presented with truths that even you claimed to have a hard time disagreeing with. This isn’t the only time, either.
I’ve been reading posts here for a few months. ‘Randy’ and I did our first tours in Iraq together. At his request I figured it was time to offer my two cents for what it’s worth.
1. There was a report publicly released in April 2006 by Sen Rick Santorum and Congressman Hoekstra confirming our troops had discovered over 500 rounds or cannisters containing mustard and/or sarin nerve gas in Iraq. If one were to go back and listen to Colin Powell’s speech before the U.N. concerning the WMD, he addressed those. Based on that alone, the Bush administration at a bare minimum got it partially right. Those who claimed “Bush lied and people died” got it 100% wrong. ‘Randy’ has previously pointed out the uranium that was removed from there. There were also large storage areas with pesticides. We never saw farmers using pesticides over there. Pesticides are precursors to nerve agent. General George Sada, who was in a position to know more about Saddam’s WMD than all of us, confirmed in his book “Saddam’s Secrets” that he had WMD. Some of what he claimed appears to be supported by sattelite imagery at the time. At this point, anyone still saying Saddam didn’t possess WMD either doesn’t have their facts straight or is lying. Oh yes, the Iraqis were also fond of telling us that the biggest WMD over there was Saddam himself.
2. When we first arrived there, the Iraqis who were on our side would point out the bad guys. They would tell us who the Ba’athist insurgents were and who the members of Al Qaeda were. They knew the difference. Since I don’t recall them coming on the convoys with us from the south nor do I recall them jumping in with the 173rd in the north, it’s safe to say they were there before we invaded. Remember Al-Zaqawi, the first one in charge of AQI? He was wounded in Afghanistan fighting our troops there and fled with his entourage to Iraq BEFORE we got there.
3. As for Iraq not being important, look at a map. It borders Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia. Two of the biggest sponsors of terrorism and the biggest financer. Saddam also fired at our planes on a regular basis. What would Russia do if we shot at their planes on a regular basis? Those in themselves were acts of war.
4. As for Afghanistan, apparently bringing the Olympics to Chicago and holding beer summits were more important as those issues were addressed before the needs of our troops in Afghanistan. During the 7 month ‘lull’, the Taliban was able to make gains and consolidate them. So much for having priorities straight.
5. Since the Dems gained control of Washington, the war protests and slanderous statements toward our military by senators and congressman from their party has pretty much ceased meaning they used our situation over there for political gain which is giving aid and comfort to our enemies. Although I disagreed with them, at least the Vietnam era war protesters protested when both Johnson and Nixon were in office. It wasn’t done for political gain. A buddy of mine who was serving in Afghanistan during the ’06 elections said the Taliban was actually celebrating when then Dems won control of Congress. General Patton once said, “I’d rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me”. Updated that statement should be, “I’d rather have a member of Al-Qaeda in front of me than a member of the Democratic Party behind me”.
@Another Vet
HooAaah.
Welcome back.
another vet: wow THE real facts are there, thank you SR. bye
Isn’t it strange how a soldier’s life means more at one time than it does at another depending on who’s side you are on?
@ smorg
The saddest part is that I think it never changed at all.
I won’t make a harsh blanket-statement that all Dims don’t care, (Too many don’t, but many sure do.) but so many of them see our troops as some sort of a victim, a child, or simply stupid, regardless of all evidence presented.
They “care” but for the wrong reasons.
@ Patvann, #37: Obama got 44% of the military veteran vote. Presumably veterans care about people currently in uniform.
I’m sure he got a significant number of current military votes, too, though I haven’t been able to turn up a statistic.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15455.html
@ another vet…
Well stated Trooper. The Newsies have their biases and that is that. Al-Zaqawi was Al Q
and was hosted and supported by former Republican Guard Elite that had evaded capture.
Without a doubt the *Facts* were never reported due to security classifications on some info.
The Current Regime as well as the Newsies do not want *Facts* to get in the way of anything
that gets in the way of their Agenda, nor will they acknowledge the fact that the “Surge” worked.
It is damn good to see “Boots on the Ground” no shit for real folks participating here at FA as well
as solid Troopers like Patvann, Old School Marines like Skookum and others that have served selflessly and honorably. The 173rd is an outfit that I never served with but they have a grand old Airborne tradition and were actually welcomed as Heroes by the Kurds.
HOOAH!!!
All the Way Airborne!
Now back to the “O” Club at USAFA for a last drink and a walk back to the VOQ.
Visiting my Daughter here in Co. Springs, Co. The Air Force treats Old Retired Troopers pretty keen despite the fact that they believe that only fools jump out of a perfectly good Aircraft. I did it for over 30 years and retired as an 0-6. Now I’m just an old fart punching cattle on the 3rd largest ranch in Montana that I own.
@ Rich Wheeler, if you don’t mind cool weather or riding a horse, show up for the Fall Roundup.
Horse, Bed, Meals and entertainment included. Dress is very damn casual.
Yes Greg.
That’s why if you try real hard you can see the words:
There are no exact numbers for active duty, (it’s not noted on ballots) but MilitaryTimes has done a widely respected poll every election asked of the “likely-to-vote” within the active duty community, including National Guard, and Reserves. The sampling size is known to be over 5000 people, so it’s a better sample percentage than any national poll by anyone.
68 to 23 -McCain. (see charts at link below)
Which was (from what I remember) about 15pnts better than Kerry got (around 10%)
You can bet the farm that after last-years 4 month debacle of him making a damn decision to SURGE in some more troops, (and a myriad of other things that suck) that Obama’s numbers are now 10-15%…
If that high. They don’t like their CiC bowing and apologizing, I assure you.
http://militarytimes.com/static/projects/pages/081003_ep_2pp.pdf
@Patvann: #37 Many years ago a caller on a radio talk show asked, “Where are the good democrats?” That question hasn’t been answered yet. Maybe they are like I have been most of my life and didn’t get involved in politics until a few years ago.
Nice sleight of hand, Greg, but it doesn’t answer, to paraphrase Peter, Paul and Mary, where have all the (Left wing) protesters gone?
If the war was immoral under Bush, how is it any less immoral under Obama?
The anti-war Left was (is) either hypocritically insincere or rabidly partisan (or both).
Doing a quick google search you find what further damaged over all troop approval of the present CIC.
In January 09, in the very beginning, six out of ten were wary of Obama. Since Inauguration our troops have had to deal with Obama’s handling of:
A terrorist murdering troops at Ft. Hood
Slow response to sending the much needed troops to Afghanistan then not sending what the General asked for
Playing ping pong with Eric Holder with the Military tribunals/civilian trials of terrorists, halting tribunals of KSM, etc. after they admitted guilt
Miranda on the battlefield, difficult ROE
Gays in the military
By April, 2010 Obama enjoyed the support of 36% of America’s finest, a couple of days ago, I read an article saying Obama has yet to win over the rank and file, I suspect that 36% has dwindled as has his support among the citizens across the US. Our troops seem to be ahead of the population in general, quicker to recognize the problems in paradise.
And, he just ain’t GW,
HooAaah!
Welcome another vet and thank you for your service to this great nation! We can never have enough of you guys in here! Don’t be a stranger and BTW where’s Randy?
@Missy: #43 “Doing a quick Google search….”
I don’t use Google since they are very liberal and hate the military. They didn’t decorate their logo for Memorial Day or Veteran’s Day until the conservative blogs complained. There are plenty of other search engines to use. Several of them guarantee that they don’t keep track of the searches you make like Google does. Why do they keep track of where you have been on the Internet? Maybe so they can sell that info to advertisers? They can also figure out if you are liberal or conservative.
“Slow response to sending the much needed troops to Afghanistan then not sending what the General asked for”
While the King-in-Chief was debating whether to send extra troops or not, he evidently wasn’t keeping in contact with the Joint Chief Of Staff because he thought that when he OKd the extra troops that it would be like setting up a tour trip and they would be sent right over. He found out that it would take several months before the logistics could be set up to support the troops once they were over there. This didn’t surprise me much since General McChrystal once said that he hadn’t talked with Obama for seven weeks.
Missy,
I talked to Randy last night. Hopefully he’ll be posting here today. I wasn’t going to post but at his urging figured it was time. Some of the comments I’ve read on here have been so out of wack it was like what’s the point. One of the great things about this country is that we can all openly state an opinion without having to worry about our doors getting kicked in and being wisked away. EVERYONE who posts here regardless of their views- liberal or conservative, would be in a prison right now in some other countries maybe even dead. Too many folks take that for grant it.
Missy,
As a quick follow up. It was an honor to serve this country. The real credit goes to the kids who joined the military after 9/11 knowing full well they were going to be sent to Afghanistan or Iraq. It is disgusting to see those on the left trivialize and worse yet, demonize, the sacrifices they’ve made.
@ another vet: It was nice to hear from you with your hard hitting commentary. Please return on a regular basis. Thanks for everything.
SMORGASBORD: you mentioned it also before, and I decide to check my name, and I could not beleive that they could copy my comments here without my agreement, they even add some other advertised parts that look like blended with my name, the worse one was an add of “lipposuction”
as if connected. I realy dont like that. bye
@ilovebeeswarzone: #48 Some blogs comments section has a “Report” button where you can report stuff like that. I hope the new FA has one.
@another vet
“Semper Fi”
“Death before Dishonor”
And thank you for the heads up.
O.T.#39 THANKS so much for your kind invitation. Montana truly sounds like “God’s country”.
I’ll give you a heads up if we can get away.My wife is a para-legal and she gets worked really hard.She’s a South American gal who truly appreciates the greatness of the U.S.A..Ofcourse you are always welcome here in San Clemente,a beautiful S.Cal,Marine Corps friendly,”Spanish Village by the Sea.” Expect to see Patvann and his returning hero in Nov.
Another Vet Thank you for your service. Pls keep an open mind about Vets who voted for our current POTUS(44% according to Greg). I assure you our patriotism runs deep.When you can,ck.out record of Sen. Jim Webb (D.Va.),Marine infantry platoon commander who I served with in V.N. He’s a Navy Cross recip. and a great supporter of our military.
Welcome Home Semper Fi
Smorg/Beez
I hate to break it to you guys, but “welcome to the internet”.
You will have to come to accept that anything you write, on any almost EVERY blog or site stores some information.
-It isn’t just Google, and it is, IN-FACT the way the web works. Literally.
If it didn’t, the web COULDN’T work. It “looks” for words, and does not care who wrote them.
Take a breath…
What the “world” sees is ONLY what you write. Some sites (NOT THIS ONE!!!!), will sell your personal information for a small amount of money for each person.
That information is what we used to initially “log into” Flopping Aces. BUT ONLY CURT AND THE MODS HAVE ACCESS, and even then Curt has final-say over what THEY can do with the information on the server. Google and the other search engines do NOT have this information, unless you published it yourself on a public blog or a site.
And I think we can all agree that we trust Curt with our “virtual” lives, if not our actual ones.
-I know I do.
So what is this information that Curt has? (Please correct me if I’m wrong)
Your E-mail address. And only the one you gave him. (More on that later.)
The address your computer has in order for other computers to talk to it, and it to them.
(In the old days of the net, we only could use these “address-numbers” and not the “http+site-name” short-cut like we do now. The address of each computer and site connected to the net still looks kinda like: 123.4.5.678 or some variation of that, but we rarely see it.)
Curt may or may not even have your real name, if your real e-mail does not have your real name in it! (Like mine does not)
This is the new “normal” and as long as you remember a few things, I think you can get more comfortable. I hope.
Number one:
This is Curt’s site, so trust him.
2. DON’T EVER type your e-mail when registering at a site, unless you are assured that the policy of the site-owner is to respect your privacy. 99.999% of sites do NOT sell your info, because they know damn well that if they do, they would be out of business soon.
2.5 It goes without saying, that you should NEVER post your home-address, or phone number in a comment section of ANY site.
3.If you are like me, I register at a LOT of websites. (I have over 1000 “favorites”)
In this case, set up a separate e-mail account on any provider you want (like Hotmail), and register that address, when you need to. That way any “spam” will go there, and not to your “real” one.
4. Install a good Anti-virus. Free AVG is the best there is. Norton sux. NEVER accept an offer to: “Scan Your Computer For Free!”. They are always used to install bad stuff into your machine.
5. Stay away from the free-backgrounds, games, porn, illegal music and video-download sites. They LOVE tracking and selling your info.
6. Adjust your computer’s privacy settings in the “Internet Option” window to a “Very High” protection-level. This will limit the amount of info your computer will share about itself, and what kind of “Cookies” your computer will accept.
7. “Cookies” are not all bad. The FloppingAces site has a bunch, and they are little “mini-programs” temporarily installed on your computer when you first looked at the page, and they let the page load faster the next time you visit… (although it’s still kinda slow, Curt.
).
Think of them as “Helper-Cookies”.
8. The “Tracking-Cookies” are the other kind that some sites will place. They use them to watch to see what kind of other sites you go to. You don’t want those. They end up trying to sell you stoopid stuff like boxcars of Viagra, and slowing down your “internet experience”, because they are “reporting” back to the site that installed it.
Setting the “Internet Option” privcy settings higher, and having AVG, will stop that, or at least minimize it.
9, If you have Facebook, review your privacy settings, and set them all to “Only Friends”, or at least “Friends of Friends”.
10. Realize that everything you say on the net, is like yelling it in a crowded theater, so act accordingly…
You better be able to comfortably have your Mom Google you and not have a heart-attack because she found your weird comment on “Horse sex dot com”, when she searched her spoiled-boy’s name. Speaking of which…
10.5. Don’t use your real name as a “handle” when making comments. Yea, I use most of my name, but I’m OK with it. Everybody in my circle of friends and relatives already know me for what I am, and the rest I don’t really give a s**t about.*
That way, only your “internet friends” recognize you, and not your next-door neighbor, who only knows you as that nice man, Steve Jones, and not “Horselover12″ who likes whips.
(Or get cured and live no lies.)
11. Relax, and be safe out there.
(Google or Bing any of our commenter’s “handles” if ya wanna have some fun!)
*I’ll bet a few relatives-of-relatives would rather read me, then listen to me, cuz then then can turn me off, and thereby “win” the discussion going on in their heads.
@Patvann: #52 I trust Curt completely. I already knew most of the stuff you explained, but it’s always good to have a refresher course.
What I was talking about was our search history. The sights that we go to. Google keeps track of the web sights you go to. It doesn’t really matter to me that Google knows that I go almost exclusively to conservative web sights, but why do they want to keep that information?
I use the ones that guarantee they do not keep my search history. I only use Google if I can’t find the information I am looking for on the others, which very seldom happens.
Having a Mac I don’t have to worry about viruses, unless I would use Windows on it, but I don’t have Windows and don’t want it.
The way I understand Facebook, every time it updates, it resets the privacy settings to “Everyone” unless the new changes they made fixes that.
I know what you mean about the free stuff. I have people forward me stuff like that and I always wonder if there is a virus in it. As you know, just opening up an attachment like that can download anything the programmer wants to into your computer. Since I have a Mac I don’t have to worry about that if I open an attachment. If I want to forward it to others I copy-and-paste it into a new message. That way, if there is a virus, it doesn’t go into the forwarded message.
One program I suggest to everyone is McAfee Site Advisor at:
http://www.siteadvisor.com/securesearch/
It checks web sites on a regular basis and lets you know if you go to a dangerous one. Once-in-a-while it has let me know I am at a dangerous sight and I should get off of it. It works on Windows and Firefox, but not Safari yet.
@ proof, #42: “If the war was immoral under Bush, how is it any less immoral under Obama?”
I don’t personally use the word “immoral” with regard to the intentions that got us into Iraq. I think “misguided” or “ill-considered” are more accurate. A lot of people think war in general is an immoral undertaking. I agree, in a purely abstract, philosophical way, but recognize the world for what it is. For me, the question of the rightness of any war is a moral calculation concerning lesser evils.
Iraq war protests fell off when perception shifted. People looked on the Bush administration as being pro-Iraq War, and the one that got us there. They looked on the Obama administration as one that wanted to get us out, and were supportive because of that. Had American combat involvement escalated that would have changed, and war protesters would have redirected their anger and been back on the streets.
As has been noted earlier in the thread, a lot of democrats have always felt differently about Afghanistan than they have about Iraq. Afghanistan always seemed like a fully warranted response to something someone else started. The element of clear and present danger was highly specific, and had already been demonstrated not just to be a matter of someone’s opinion.
@another vet: Thanks for the great comment. The authors and I have written about those facts over and over again as Missy pointed out, and can’t be stated enough so we will continue to post em.
As to your point 1 here is a few:
http://www.floppingaces.net/2006/07/01/the-magic-list-of-wmds-in-iraq/
http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/02/24/saddam%E2%80%99s-wmd-program-site-555-part-ii/ (end of post)
@ Smorgasbord, #53:
An observation regarding computer security that might be of general interest… I checked my Norton security log about a week ago and noticed blocked attempts to access an unused port on my machine at intervals of every 4-5 minutes. This seemed to have been going on for as far back as the record ran. I got curious and ran quick traces on several of the recurring IP numbers associated with the attempts. A couple were anonymous machines located in the People’s Republic of China; another was in Seoul, South Korea.
Keep that security software up to date and running, folks. Somebody is always out there, quietly looking for unlocked doors and windows. I’m sure it’s some sort of nefarious automated hacking software, constantly scanning the entire net for exploitable vulnerabilities.
Sookum,
Your welcome. This is a good site with some interesting info and links.
Rich Wheeler,
I realize not all supporters of the Democratic Party are flaming anti-American, but there is a BIG difference between a Jim Webb whom I respect and who although he was against the war, didn’t go out there and try to undermine the mission like Teddy, Kerry, and DICK Durbin. As for the current President, he lost my respect when he posed for photo ops with the caskets at Dover last year. The first comments the administration made when they released the pictures was that President Bush never met with the families which was a blatant lie and makes one wonder why make the statement to begin with. To me they used the caskets for political gain which is disgusting, not just as a Commander-in-Chief but as a person as well. I don’t believe he apologized for the statements or had them retracted, so he must have agreed with them being made.
Thanks for your service as well. You guys served your country well and deserved far better.
Curt,
I figured I was just rehashing some old arguments. Thanks for the links.
Greg: More sleight of hand. Perhaps you didn’t consider the war immoral, but many, if not most of the anti-war demonstrators indicated that they did.
So where are they? I know why you’re not sitting outside Martha’s Vineyard, but what about the rest? (Crickets chirp)
Aaother Vet Bush like all Pres. before and since met with families of our deceased.Noone of rank in this current Admin. or any other would suggest otherwise.Obama saluting the returning caskets was no more a photo OP. than the myriad of times he and other Pres. have been photographed honoring our troops.All Pres. in my lifetime have honored our troops To suggest Obama and Michelle are somehow different is simply not true.
Semper Fi
Rich,
The big issue I had with it was why make the comment that Bush never met with the families? If the sole intent was to pay respects to our fallen and their families, the comment would have never been made. Had they taken the pictures and not made the comment I wouldn’t feel that way.
@Mr. Wheeler
Then please explain why Obama’s DOJ is signing waivers to byass the MOVE(Military and Overseas Voter Empowerment) Act, disenfranchising our troops overseas who happen to live in one of the states that obtained the waiver.
Please explain why Obama snubbed the Medal of Honor Inauguration Ball. The first in 56 years to do so.
Please explain why Obama used our troops overseas as a political football in his vote to discontinue funding back in 2007.
Please explain why Obama wished to force veterans to pay for their own health insurance. And no, this doesn’t mean I agree with paying for everyone’s health insurance, but veterans, particularly those wounded, deserve some payback for the sacrifices they have made for our country.
Please explain why Obama’s head of the DHS put out a memo placing American veteran’s on terrorist watch lists, while his DOJ cannot be bothered with calling our current enemies Islamic Extremists.
Now, this list doesn’t necessarily mean that Obama is completely against our troops and veterans, but it does raise some interesting questions as to just where Obama’s loyalty lies regarding the military.
PATVANN: thank you, for the lesson,very informative, I only come here at FA, onless the
GROUP here leave some links, and I go to read of the subject and sometimes look at others
STORYs that touch my interest, YES I trust CURT, IT’s GOOGLE that spread my comments,
I didnt know and the fact that they associate others some are more than one mix together, it
make my name and words mean diffrent, so I realy did not like what I saw there at all.
it was unexpected , there you are with those stranger to the source of your comment which take a completly diffrent meaning,
I appreciate your info, AS I understood some of it, I’LL study the rest to catch it later,
bye
@ Old Trooper 2
Enjoy the Air Force hospitality OT. No one does it better. I never could figure out why I was paid $145 a month to stay on the airplane and they only paid you guys $85 to jump out. I’m thinking I got a better deal.
@Patvann: Great description of the internet Pat. Your pretty much right on all counts.
Yes, I do have access to every IP address who visits. Some can visit through whats called proxy server and have a fake IP shown but I can also than block access to FA for everyone coming through that proxy if need be.
Everything else Pat suggested should be followed, excellent advice.
Oh, and cookies are actually very helpful for not having to type the same info in over and over again. You can review the ones that are kept on your computer through your browser and delete those you don’t want.
As far as the speed of the site….I know I know….the new site should be coming out soon and I guarantee it will be a lot faster.
@another vet: Not at all Vet, I want these subjects rehashed because if they aren’t they get lost and people forget about them.
@Rich-59
I beg to differ.
Obama has none very little in regards to personally visiting with the injured, and especially remiss in his dealings with the families of the fallen. They now get boilerplate condolences, not the hand written ones Bush sent. I know this as personal fact.
His staged “salute” to the warrior at Dover was a midnight rush job, and only ONE out of the 18 families allowed President Narcissist to use a photo of their son’s casket as a prop. He has never met one-on-one with a family of a fallen-one, and you can count the number of (opportune) times he’s visited with the injured, on one hand. (4 times, is the correct answer.)
In all fairness, he has invited a dozen or so injured to the White House.
He was no Bush, and he was no Cheney: Bush wept with Cindy Sheehan.
http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2009/10/obama-salutes-dead-soldiers-return-to-us-but-wont-send-reinforcements/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/dec/22/bush-cheney-comforted-troops-privately/print/
BUS load of SEU are going to ARIZONA to protest the law that will be in effect shortly.
GREG: hi, On your 56, I think IT’s very IMPORTANT,to know. THANK you. bye
Patvann on your 67,
That backs up what I heard from someone who was a Casualty Assistance Officer for one of the families at Dover that day.
John Galt Where do YOU suggest Obama’s loyalty lies re. the military?
another vet No one in Obama admin ever said Bush didn’t meet fallen soldier’s families. That would be as stupid as saying Obama wasn’t born in Hawaii.
Pat Didn’t Obama meet with a Sergeant’s family at Dover?I’m sure he and Michelle will meet with many fallen and wounded’s families before this war is over.
@Curt: #55 We have quite a few WMD in Congress we need to dispose of.
@Rich
Yes. He managed to show up on short notice, thus disrupting the solemn methodology of the transfer, stand and salute all 18 vessels as they were unsecured and brought down the ramp, take all the photos, have his people ask each family for permission to use the photo, (get turned down from 17 of them), as well as then ask if they wanted to meet him, whereby he met 14 families…
All that in two hours…Those must have been some deep and heartfelt conversations he packed into that maybe 40 minutes or so he had left over for them…at 3 minutes a piece.
Gibbs did say however, that Obama said nothing and that he was quite “reflective” on the drive back to the White House, so I’m gonna go ahead and assume he felt something..
The trip came the same day after Mr. Obama signed a military spending bill, which he said: “(r)eaffirms our commitment to our brave men and women in uniform and our wounded warriors.”
Three days earlier, he spoke to sailors and Marines in Florida, where he defended himself against critics who suggest he is taking too long to announce a strategy for Afghanistan…
…which he was.
And I’m VERY sure when he has the opportunity to use the deaths of our warriors to gain political points, he will visit them again as much as necessary, before this war is over.
@Greg: #56 Windows has been one of the least secure operating systems for many years. Unless they changed it with their latest version, they are still using the older technology. They never completely redo their operating system. They just keep patching it. All of the other systems use newer higher secure technology.
I notices sometimes when I would have a software update notice on my Mac that it would have 70-80 MB for the system. I asked a Mac tech about why it had so many MBs and he said that Apple and ALL of the other operating systems redo their systems often and include the patches that have been issued. This makes it a new operating system and it makes it run smoother.
Windows just keeps putting patches on. How many patches can you put on a tire before it just blows up?
There are a lot more secure browsers you can use instead of Internet Explorer, or whatever it is called now. Firefox is taking a huge share of the market and is much more secure than IE. That is the one I use instead of Apple’s Safari. Opera is another one, but I don’t know anything about it. Linux has been rated as one of the most secure and trouble free systems, and it is free. It has all the stuff that the others charge hundreds of dollars for. I don’t know how he made money from it, but he did until he went to jail for killing his wife. Others took it over. I forget which country it was but they switched to Linux for their government computers.
Shortly after Linux came out, a Microsoft executive was being interviewed about it. One reporter asked him if he was sure of the pronunciation and he said he was and that they researched it. The reporters knew that it is pronounced (Lenex).
No matter which browser you use it is a good idea to have a second one just in case. Remember when Microsoft warned people not to use the browser until they downloaded the patch? Browser do go down sometimes too.
Just for the record, I like how Apple names their programs in a way that the name gives you a good idea what it is, and their icons for the programs are the same way. They have won awards for them.
@johngalt: #61 The King-in-Chief also missed the Boy Scout Jamboree that other presidents attended for many years. I guess it would have been hard on him being around all of those kids being taught:
On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.
He would have a problem with those.
Then there are the other irritants:
A Scout is:
Trustworthy
Loyal
Helpful
Friendly
Courteous
Kind
Obedient
Cheerful
Thrifty
Brave
Clean
Reverent
Good luck on getting him to do those.
@Curt: #65 I didn’t know FA was operating slow. I use Firefox on a Mac and it works fine. I ain’t bragging, just letting you know.
Gates Sees 2-3 Years of Combat in Afghanistan
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704855104575469770302547514.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsSecond
On Friday he said a move to a counterterrorism strategy would simply result in pushing insurgents from one place to another as in an arcade game of “whack-a-mole.”
********************************************************
I can easily describe the current strategy as “whack a mole” as the Afghan Forces have not been
“stood Up” in numbers yet and the CIC sent about 60, 000 too few “shooters” in his last decision
to reinforce. A “Surge” it ain’t and “knee jerk” political decisions that fall short of success are not going to get the job done with a harmonious outcome. You can bet your boots, saddle and kit on it.
You heard it from me first.
OLD TROOPER 2: I was reading also that 5 where kill by EIDS, AGAIN and AGAIN
I’m wondering if there is new ways ,or gadgets or telesenser as to
LOCATE thoses and destroy them before a soldier or their vehicules walk on it,
ALL the time spend there should have produce a better managing those explosifs
AT ALL COST but not of our OWNS. WE must pressure those who are responsible to
PROVIDE the research and the right tools to stop those lost of life and injurys to EIDS.
@Smorg
FA isn’t running any slower than other sites with lots of graphics…I’m just whining because it “funner” to blame him for my lack of a graphics card in my old-ish machine.
(I don’t do gaming, so the wiz-bang graphic-accelerators are bought and used on my kid’s machines.)
And a “heads-up”…Macs are JUST AS susceptible to viruses as PC, except for the fact that almost all the viruses are written to attack PC’s, because there are so many more of them in the field.
The new Windows 7, is based on a totally different platform than the past XP-based version, and it’s a LOT better, faster, and smaller OS. My brother does a lot of Beta work for them and Apple, and he’s “diggin” this new one. He hated Vista with a passion.
@ ilovebeeswarzone, the “secret” to defeating IEDs is patrol, patrol and more patrol.
They can’t place them if you have patrols out to shoot the SOBs before they can place them.
Hence “Boots on the Ground” in sufficient numbers to catch them in the act. Without sufficient
troopers out to catch them, the mischief and mayhem continues.
@ Aqua, the Army only bought me a “one way ticket” and no “frequent flyer miles”
My thanks to the Air Force for dropping supplies and furnishing A-10 support when requested.
Smorgasbord: that’s a good code to live by, I am going to give it a go. Thanks.
@Patvann: I’m not a gamer either. I have only what came with the computer.
For several years I have asked the Mac sales people and techs if I need virus protection for my Mac and they keep telling me there aren’t any viruses written for a Mac yet. The last I knew Apple had 20% of the computer market, but that was several years ago.
The reason I tried a Mac is I got tired of Windows crashing like it is known to do. I have heard that Macs seldom crash, and it is true.
Vista probably sold more Macs than the Apple advertising. What is ironic is that Vista ran faster on Macs than it did on the PCs. Microsoft is known for releasing programs before they should just so they can get them out as soon as possible. They let the public be the testers. It is always better to wait a while after they release a new system until the bugs are found and fixed.
I look at the Mac or PC thing like the Ford or the Chevy thing.
@Old Trooper 2: #81 The A-10 is my favorite plane. I live right across the highway from a Naval Air Station that has them and they are out almost every weekend. I am in hog heaven when I see them.
Can anyone explain to me why they aren’t made any more? Some of the planes are older than the pilots who fly them, yet they are always some of the first planes sent into combat. If they are still a first line of attack, why were they discontinued?
@ Smorgasbord
I worked on the A-10 for four years, still one of my favorite airframes. I was stationed in La., home of the 23rd Tactical Fighter Wing, Flying Tigers. With the Army’s Apache and the Navy’s FA-18 picking up CAS missions, it was determined that the A-10 would no longer be the Close Air Support Airframe for Joint Operations Command. Base Closures were responsible for a lot of those decisions. I know the field commanders weren’t very happy with the decision, just as they weren’t happy about giving up the SR-71 in favor of more satellites.
Delay what the Generals need, motivate the enemy, get our troops and Afghani civilians killed, lose the war, and hand Afghanistan back to the Taliban, all because he wanted to shove ObamaCare up our collective asses…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/02/AR2010090203991.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
Fuckyouverymuch, sir.
When Career Military Folk tell the DC Political Elite things that they don’t want to hear…
Commanders get relieved or resign. When the US loses a War, We lose prestige and
become lesser as an Ally and a Nation.
All Wars have the political side to them and AFPAK is only a symptom of bad Foreign Policy
decisions made by unqualified leaders in DC. Von Clausewitz referred to War as Politics
by another means. If you are not willing to do what it takes to win, you will lose despite brave
Troopers, brave Airmen and Sailors efforts to win.
AFPAK is more political than military and Failed Foreign Policy is only symptomatic of Failed Leadership in the White House. Period. I will argue that point with those in DC any time.
We Never Lost a War in the Field. We lose it when Career Politicians second guess Career Generals and send less than what it takes to win.
Who Loses? We ALL do. You can take that to the bank.
OT, I think it was Sun Tzu who wrote that it is possible to win the war and lose the peace or lose the war and win the peace.
If your blood pressure is under control, check out suek’s comment under the Sunday Funnies Preview.
whoops! PV caught the link. Belay that comment
Patvann I know the Giants are struggling but your mood needn’t turn that foul.If Repubs. turn against CIC in execution of this war I say pox on your house.
@rich wheeler:
Did you say “pox on your house” when the Dims turned against Bush when he was the CIC in charge of fighting two wars?
No?
Didn’t think so.
a.c. Reasonable to question wisdom of going in to Iraq.Once engaged I say pox on the house of Dems who did not support CIC.
@rich wheeler:
Well, those who have been paying attention know that the Dims once thought that confronting the Iraq issue was important, if not paramount…of course, that was back before they were able to fashion it into a political football with the blood of our troops staining the playing field.
Furthermore Obie, the boy prez, the one you voted for, was one of the foremost voices of opposition. He was one of the ones who did everything he could do to block our success in Iraq. In addition to other things, he opposed the surge, the single most important element in turning the entire effort around.
Yes, Obie took to the airwaves, speaking out against the efforts of the CIC, feeding the determination of our enemy in the process. Not quite aid and comfort…more like “just hunker down and wait ’til we give up and go home.”
He did all of that….yet, you still voted for him.
Looks like consistent inconsistency on your part, eh?
A little trip down memory lane in case you missed it in #25 above:
A.C. Since my service in V.N. I’ve believed the CIC should be supported in time of war.I would add entry into war should be a last resort carefully and unemotionally thought out.ONCE IN WIN with full support of the American people.I turned 66 8/31,have always believed this personally.
My support of the Dem Party has always been based primarily on social issues.The execution of war,once entered, should not be a political football.
GO IRISH Halftime up 13-3
@Rich
There is nothing going on in my life, let alone a trivial sports team, when I am thinking of this war.
-I kinda have a few things at stake. My son, the Afghans, my son, the troops, my son, Islamic terror, my son….
Ya know…those “little” things.
This CiC can’t seem to do the same, and to obliquely excuse him of this political move, while hiding under the “support the CiC no matter what” canard is kinda weak.
Shall we now “support” losing wars, giving comfort to the enemy, and needlessly killing civilian and our own warriors in order to pass bills that put 18% of our economy under government control?
Really?…Because that’s EXACTLY what he did last year. He “played political football”, and while doing so, handed the ball to the enemy.
I will NOT support that. Ever.
I will curse him to my grave for it, even if there was an “R” after his name.
@Aqua: Funny you should mention the SR-71. I went to the Smithsonian’s National Air And Space Museum at the Dullis Airport and that was the first plane I saw. I was looking down from a walkway and just stared at it thinking I would never get to see one. I didn’t know they had one. You could get within about 10 feet from it. I didn’t know that all of the Smithsonians are free. I did leave a donation.
I side with Dr. K on this:
Our distracted commander in chief
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/02/AR2010090203991.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
*******************************************************
Having served at levels of Command from Platoon to BCT, thats Brigade Combat Team, I can see no excuse for not committing enough forces to win the Fight.
@Old Trooper 2: It sounds like you have joined the ranks of us those of us who think Obama’s main objective is to transform the USA into some kind of kingdom for himself.
@ Smorgasbord, as Karzai is attempting to negotiate with the Taliban right now, it may be obvious that announcing a timeline for withdrawal of US Forces was a less than brilliant move.
I reckon that you can draw your own conclusion from there. The War is just an unpleasant distraction…
@ Skookum, Sun Tzu was required reading at Command and General Staff School almost a lifetime ago. As I recall winning the War and the Peace happened in 1945 and has not happened since. The UN has been trying to negotiate the Peace for over 60 years and has not gotten it done anywhere yet.
The more I think about this, the more I feel sick to my stomach. This is far beyond any “rage” I have ever felt in my life, and yet all my usual methods of calming don’t seem to be doing anything to bring me back.
My music seems lifeless, and my distractions feel false.
I want my son back, and my guilt for cheering him on, is overwhelming me.
what have i done?
@ Patvann, your Son is doing the right thing and you Sir have every right to be proud of him.
Do not take stock of your fears at this point.
Patvann…
I have one there as well. He’s in Iraq, and probably safer than yours, but the fact is that nowhere over there is safe.
I agree with OT2..do not take stock of your fears. Besides – in spite of your cheering and encouraging, it was his decision, unless he’s less of a man than you think he is.
Although the cost is horrific, I think in the long run, America will come out on the winning end of this – no matter what the apparent outcome. These young men will come home to be the leaders of the country for tomorrow. What they see and what see needs to be done, and what they see from the government that sent them will instruct and support them, and the nation will be the better for them. I honestly believe that.
But it will be hard to hold on to that till they come back…
PV, I and many others here at FA stand with you and feel at least a portion of your anguish.
You are not alone. Skook.
PATVANN: hi, YOU know that your son is where HE choose to be,
HIS young days of admiring a brave father , shaped his mind ‘
to fight to protect the freedom,and for what you gave him as a father’s love,
that’s what he wanted, and would not change anything,
IT’s normal for a father to be submerged with doubt and regrets
those are genuine emotions from that great love between father and son.
IT is hard to shake, and dont try to, but it will diminish in intensity and
become eazyer to face them , I for one know that MUSIC heal the emotions,
put some on right now,it’s time to listen to good music. bye SR, with all my respect to you.
@Old Trooper 2: #99 When you said, “The War is just an unpleasant distraction….”I don’t know if you meant that you thought it was a distraction or that you meant Obama thought is was a distraction. I know who’s side Obama is on, and it ain’t ours.
The only peace talks that will work with the Taliban is the one a bumper sticker says. It says, “It’s God’s job to judge the terrorists… It’s our mission to arrange the meeting!” U. S. Marines.
OT, I had a relative drink himself to death after six and a half decades because he fought for the winning side and still lost the war. Oh, he was very successful, but a quart of vodka a day takes its toll on a body sooner or later.
I am speaking of one of the few survivors of the Polish Squadrons who only lived to kill more National Socialists. He still talked of not being allowed to march in the Victory parade in London because Stalin had a death sentence for all those who ran to fight for the allies and he might have “Put Out” at the sight of the few remaining Poles actually marching in the Victory Parade, even if the represented a group with a 2.5% survival rate.
Did we win the Peace? I am afraid that is one thing that I must argue with you. Stalin had his personal agents well placed in the US government, confirmed by the Verona Cables, so well placed that Roosevelt was being personally advised by a Communist Agent at Pottsdam.
The Hell that Eastern Europe suffered behind the Communist Curtain can hardly be considered a Victory. Like many families, we had multiple warriors in that great conflict, but in some strange way, that one man’s betrayal reminds me of the betrayal of our troops in the ME who are being marginalized with an attitude that is even worse than the one that forbade our Polish Warriors permission to march in a stupid parade.
In that conflict we were fighting two wars for our very existence. Lately, we or more appropriately- you, have been fighting in one of two wars, in which strategy and logistics have been manipulated to gain Domestic Political Advantage. This is a criminal act in my opinion and if our brave patriots like yourself had the cynical attitude of Democrats or the Polish Squadron survivors, this country would be on the verge of collapse because of the incompetence and political corruption within the present administration.
Can we win the War and Peace? Not unless this war continues until we have a new President, this one is all to ready to hand us defeat to accomplish another Marxist coup within our own borders, victory means nothing to him. Roosevelt may have been advised by Soviet Agents, but our enemies don’t need well entrenched agents, they only need to wait.
@ Smorgasbord, Amen Bro but I was not a Marine. My unit from 75th Ranger Regiment jumped into Kandahar to start this fight a couple of years back and the only thing that I feared was the local water, if you get my drift.
@ Patvann, not to worry. Your Son is in good hands and under competent Leadership over there.
I have been to the Stans twice and Iraq, Somalia in my younger hard charging days and the Balkans. You are as safe with Your Pardners in the Stans or safer than waiting on a bus on the streets of Chicago. I have about 2,800 Pardners there now and many sons & daughters of my friends. Take heart and not the stock of your fears. If I was 20 years younger I would be deployed again and with 5th Group or my beloved Rangers out looking for the Taliban and kicking some tail.
Your Son is no different and is a part of America’s Second Greatest Generation.
Be He Army, Navy, Air Force or Marine, it is a Joint Forces OP and take pride in his efforts and let the worrying take care of itself. Regardless of Who resides at the White House, We take Care of Our Own as I trained my Officers and NCOs to do.
Kandahar is not a Sunday School picnic but it is not East St. Louis, Chicago or Downtown Detroit either. Take a knee and repeat this Prayer…”Though I walk through the Valley of Death, I will Fear no Evil because I am the Meanest SOB in the Valley” AMEN!
@Patvann: #101 One thing we all can do is that in all of the future elections we should demand that we have a president and Congress that wants the biggest and baddest military so that any country or terrorist organization will know that if they come after us they will be destroyed.
One way to do this is to get politicians who will agree to introduce a bill that would fund the government by the numbers. Each agency will be given a number rating. The military will be #1. It will be the only #1. This would include the VA. After #1 is funded, then they go to #2, then on until the money runs out. The agencies who aren’t getting as much money as they want will start looking for any pork barrel spending in the agencies that got their funding. This would help end the pork barrel spending which should not be allowed in the first place.
If you and others think the funding by the numbers is a good idea, please contact your politicians and suggest it to them. I don’t see the incumbents doing it for obvious reasons, so we would have to ask the ones running to replace them to do it.
Most of us know that Bill Clinton balanced his budget by reducing the military and intelligence agencies so much that we had some soldiers overseas living in buildings that had been condemned. We had to pull our two agent out of Iraq because of this.
We need to make sure that the military gets funded enough to be a deterrent before we are attacked so that soldiers like your son will have less worry about going into a combat situation.
If it weren’t for the ones who went “over there” in each war we have had, I wouldn’t be speaking English right now. The ones who do the actual fighting to keep me free should get the best training, equipment, etc. They should also get lifetime medical care without having to prove that something on the battlefield probably made them sick years later. I will gladly pay higher taxes to make sure the ones keeping me free are taken care of properly for the rest of their lives.
Again, the idea is for our military to be known around the world as something not to mess with. Can anyone else remember that if a country messed with an American civilian unjustly that country was in serious trouble? We need to bring back that attitude.
@ Skookum, I will get with you by email on the Hungarian Revolt in 1959.I will have dinner tonight with the Grand Niece of a Hungarian Patriot of that era. Ms Sonja Dobos will eat my cooking tonight.
No snickers from the FA bunch. My Daughter likes her.
Amazing how Democrats never finish a War with Freedom in mind for Allies. Obama is just following an old Democrat Tradition.
Stalin was quite the guy and NOT someone that I would talk terms with. .45 ACP is what he would understand. I keep a few 1911s about the house.
Off to get a great American Meatloaf out of the oven.
BTW, that troublesome Morgan gelding, named Mike, will wear a pack tomorrow. A couple of my Hands will pack him up heavy and lead his rude @ss up to OP#3 that is about a 40 minute ride all uphill. That should give “mike” the work ethic no doubt.
Fall round up is the movement of about 2K head of beef to Winter pasture. Grub, Horses, tack, potable (Adult) beverages, long guns & ammunition and keen lodging provided. Free Enterprise lives in Montana. But not in Detroit, Cleveland, NYFC or other refuges of Mandatory Charity.
@ rich wheeler, You supported that. Don’t play Mr. stupid with me Mr. USMC Semper Fi one tour Marine.
I know better and so do You. Come to Montana, ride a horse and bring your Bride to see America at it could be or be someone that served Once and has your blinders on.
OT, I will be anxious to hear about the Hungarian Revolt, I remember looking at those pictures of war for the first time back before magazines became propaganda rags. It was shocking for a twelve year old to see men attacking tanks with Molotovs and pistols.
Good luck with the meat loaf and the romantic dinner, oh to be a young man once again!
Glad to hear you are going on with Mike. The 140 pound plus packs can take the starch out of many of them. I used to pack them for three days and them climb aboard, they were so glad to have live weight instead of those packs they were often anxious to please and ready to start with a blank slate. It is extremely hard to buck on an uphill grade. Once the rider replaces the packs, the horse is usually too tired to resist, but you can start reining the horse as you follow the trail, directing the horse around each boulder and tree with the reins, it is boring work since the horse must go around each obstacle anyway, but the horse will learn the basics of reining in a subliminal manner in one or two days.
I misread your post, I thought it said 40 miles, oh well. Packing salt in the high country is excellent work for a hooligan. Concerning the biting, try to keep yourself in a good position without appearing defensive. If they sense your defensive posture it will only re-enforce the behavior, they love to evoke emotion in humans. That way they can judge you and know where you stand, they are excellent judges of humans and if they can get you to reveal your emotions so much the better for them. The guy who can do everything without emotion will keep a horse much more respectful. None the less, biting is unacceptable, a swift and powerful response without emotion and then acting as if you have forgotten the offense immediately will cue the horse to stop the habit. Just as we have contempt for a dog that is a fear biter, a horse has the utmost disrespect for someone who lashes out over and over from a position of relative safety, if a horse loses respect for you or is afraid of you, make sure your medical is paid up.
He may buck the packs off two or three times, put them back on and he will begin to get tired. If you adjust them lower on his ribs, he will find it harder to get his air, of course you will need a diamond with at least a small top pack over them to make this work. If they are too low and too tight he might collapse, as always judgement is required. I like to restrict the air a bit on a tough one in the higher elevations.
Cheating is allowed with hooligans.
Have a good evening in God’s country.
SALTY ONE Re.#111 WHAT ARE YOU ACCUSING ME OF NOW?
BTW One 13 month combat tour is exactly one tour more than many flag waving pontificators here at F.A. have experienced.
A little behind here but-
johngalt #61- Looks like a pattern.
rich wheeler #71- I based my statement on a FOX news report on their web site that had it as one of their top stories around 29 October 2009 when the visit to Dover happened. They even had the Bush administration’s response to the accusations stating that President Bush frequently met with the troops’ families but it was policy not to have the press there out of respect for privacy to the families. I believe Ari Fleischer delivered the response. Two other people I talked to today remember the statement being made including ‘Randy’ who also posts here. I’ll try to get a copy of the story just to make sure we didn’t misread something like it being a third party making the statement instead of someone in the Obama administration.
Old Trooper 2- I agree 100% with all of your assessments. Too many sacrifcies were made and will continue to be made for this to result in a victory for the other side. Victory for us is the ONLY answer. Unfortuantely POTUS still doesn’t get it.
Patvann- Tell your son thanks for his service and I wish him all the best.
Your Complicated whine may not be served up with Cheeses to your satisfaction.
Bugger off !!!
OT2,
Here you are in my back yard with out a how are ya while I am in Gardner looking for cows with an X lazy M!
Patvan,
My son is in Afghanistan. He is there because “he wasn’t smart enough to get a scholarship to Harvard”. He really is there because he at 22 has more patriotic blood in him than most of congress and much more than our current president. You did the right thing to encourage your son. He will come back with a look at life that everyone needs to have. It is much harded having your son in a combat zone than it is being their myself. I would have gone, but I reached that mandatory retirement date!
I wrote an article while I was in Iraq in 2003 while the Dems were acting like their ignorant selves. I said that those of us who were in Iraq knew the truth and understood the reason we were there. I also said that we vote and will compete for office with those who seek only political position. Both proved true.
OT2- I listen to you. Responding to jerks like John Ryan and his supporters is a waste of time. When we know the truth, we do not need to defend it. Others need to try to destry it!
This came from a friend who has a son in Iraq. Think there was another political spin on the troop withdrawl from Iraq?
Randy
Hey, everybody! I just wanted to send a quick update and give y’all the REAL story on what’s going on over here with the troop withdrawal. The picture is of my crew and I on a break during a mission. The guy to the far left is my gunner (Burks) and the guy in the middle is my driver (Mizell). They go with me on every mission and are great guys. The reason I’m sending this out is because I have had a few people ask if I left Iraq early because all of the combat troops are out of Iraq and I wanted to let everyone know the real deal. It’s kind of ridiculous how the news is saying that the last of the “combat” troops are out of Iraq because of Pres Obama. He says that it was his campaign promise. Take our Brigade for example. We were originally called a HBCT (Heavy Brigade Combat Team). Well, since Obama said he would pull all of the “combat” troops out by Aug, all they did before we left was change our name from a HBCT to a AAB (Advise and Assist Brigade). We have the same personnel/equipment layout as before and are doing the same missions. The ONLY difference is that they changed our name from a HBCT to an AAB and that’s how he is getting away with saying that he has pulled all of the “combat” troops out. It is really ridiculous what he’s doing and he has ticked a lot of people off. And it’s funny how the media is buying all of it, too. So no the last combat troops are not out of Iraq . We are still here. There are other Brigades just like ours that are doing the same missions that are still over here. Sorry for going on about it but we are just sitting over here watching it and are like “You’ve got to be kidding me!” So anyway now you know the REAL story, so that’s why I’m not coming back early. You have to watch those liberals, they’re sneaky!
Anyways I hope everyone is doing well and I’ll see you soon!
Travis
@Randy: #118 I’m a little concerned about including names in the letter sent. If the wrong people see it they might want to bring charges against the sender. I couldn’t talk about Clinton with my son while he was president. As you know, you aren’t supposed to say ANYTHING negative about the president while you are in the service.
Smorgasbord these are nicknames.
Patvann#73 “very sure when he (Obama)has the opportunity to use the deaths of our warriors to gain political points he will visit them again as much as nescessary–”
Would suggest you read that statement slowly and ask yourself as a good Christian if you truly mean it or you’re just pissed off because your son is in harms way.
He has had the training of a United States Marine.He has a shield of brothers who are strong,proud and extremely protective of their own.He’ll be home in Nov.and he will be a better man and you a better father for the experiece.
Semper Fi Richard
In Iraq under President Bush, we had rules of engagement that were developed in theater. A good leader lets the folks on the ground develop the rules of engagement so they can be successful. When Obama took over, his administration passed the rules of engagement down to the troops on the ground. Obama has used the deaths of our service members if you were not short of memory. He used that as a reason to not approve the Iraq surge.
Obama was against the surge because he didn’t believe in the strategy.Colin Powell shared this belief.They were wrong.Does this mean Obama as CIC doesn’t care about our fighters in Afghan.?I don’t believe that.
The point was he used the deaths of Americans. When was Colin Powell right? Colin Powell was not even the Sec of State at that time. He couldn’t handle the job!
@ Rich
I meant every word, and would say it even if John was now a firefighter living next door instead of a Marine in the rockpile on the other side of the planet.
I know he is among the best, and they got his six, but I also know this president used that night to fluff his nest, and not for any altruistic feelings he has for fallen warriors, and he delayed making decisions to HELP the ones still alive, because he wanted to use it as a club to pass the Healthcare bill.
He is a piece of garbage who uses our best to score political points. Write and complain to him, not me. All I can do is yell on blogs and hope I never get one of his pre-printed condolence cards, whereas he might actually need some of your spiritual advise, after hangin out with the American-hating preachers for 20 years.
In regards to my words about Obama…my conscience is clean.
My “fear” regarding John, is that this CiC won’t let our guys win, and then everything they’ve been through will be for nothing, and that 5-10 years from now the leftist history books will say him and his lost the war, just like they do about Viet Nam now. (I have a brand-new high school history book beside me now, and I just checked.) I see how that historical manipulation affects that generation of warrior, and I don’t want that for him.
1. Crapped up ROE imposed by folks that are neither Commanders on the Ground or familiar with conditions on the ground place Troops at risk.
2, Sending 30,000 fewer Troops than what the Commander on the Ground requested puts Troops as well as the Mission at Risk.
3, It was not a Strategic decision, it was a Political one so lets stop the BS on that right now.
4. Obama wanted to keep a Campaign Promise to END the War, not Win it. He is not up to the job.
I was in AFPAK when the request was made and I assumed responsibility for allowing My Officers,
if engagement was imminent, to ignore crapped up ROE that result in Casualties. An 0-6 can do that and I did it.
Colin Powell was one of the folks that insisted in placing overwhelming force on the ground for Desert Shield/Storm but did not have squat to do with the “Surge” in Iraq or the Stans.
@Randy: #119 I wasn’t thinking so much about the nicknames, but I am guessing that is the trooper’s name that wrote the letter at the bottom. You know how our King-in-Chief likes to get even with people who go against him.
OT, damn, that was awe inspiring, an officer who will risk it all for his men has the utmost respect and again you are something else.
@Randy: For many years I have been saying there are certain things that the Joint Chiefs of Staff should decide. The Rules Of Engagement is one.
@ Smorgasbord, I am of the opinion that the JCS is too far above the Fight to decide.
Commanders on the Ground must have that prerogative as they have the local dust
on their boots and are Ultimately Responsible for any outcomes of said ROE. The blame for poor judgment in field Operations rests on those that take Responsibility on a Personal Level and must look their Troopers in the Eye every day, not some Puzzle Palace Politician that visits and is still pissing Stateside water.
@Old Trooper 2: #130 I agree with you. My meaning was that I don’t think the president should decide things like ROE. It should be done by the ones who have been there and know how it is. My feeling is that the Joint Chiefs of Staff would decide in favor of whatever it takes to protect our troops. After all, they never come up for reelection. Some of them could have even lost buddies in battle.
I met the man who guarded General Westmoreland’s Ice Cream: you can read that again, but it will read the same. This leader who was so far beyond the life of the ordinary grunt that he expected salutes and starched utilities, he was in country and in charge, but with the presence of mind to assure himself a continuous supply of ice cream.
Candy Assed Bastard!
Kinda brings to mind this gold plated turd that was promoted way above his abilities:
Wesley Clark: Bush’s ‘surge’ will backfire
http://securingamerica.com/node/2091
Let me remember. Obama was against the surge because his vast knowledge and experience of military tactics. Rich, if you had a brain or were interested in understanding why the surge was suggested, you would know who H. R. McMaster is. Do you have any idea what he accomplished in Tal Afar?
By the way, the surge worked before the surge was implemented. One reason was the time in theater was extended and experienced troops did what they do best, kill bad guys. They also helped the Iraqis kill bad guys.
Obama has not made one decision since he held public office that was designed to benefit anyone but himself. In IL, he voted “present”. In the Senate, he voted with his party. As president, his decisions were all politically caculated.
Anyone who voted for him expecting anything else is either ignorant or have less than a 25IQ.
Placing the Credit where it is due:
there’s no doubt, this guy on the top job,has side up with anything call Muslim,
they help him win, he is paying back the favor: I was reading that they are on the process to reinstate the TALIBANS, IT said that thoses talks have been going on for quite a while,
and prez KARZEI is all for it,
@ ilovebeeswarzone, Karzai does not have the full support of the Tribal Leaders and knows that the clock is ticking. He has been in negotiations with the Taliban for some time now. I can easily see Karzai entering into a Coalition Government with Former and Present Day Taliban to stay in power since the Timeline has been announced.
At present I cannot see Afghanis embracing a Central Government while their loyalties are both Tribal and Provincial. There are corruption issues there as well. Iraq is a different story entirely as Iraq has infrastructure that Afghanistan lacks.
Neither the Current US Regime or the US State Department appear to have done their homework at this point. US resources and NATO resources are not infinite either. Iran has a hand in the outcome as well.
Alexander the Great and the British Empire were repelled by the Tribal Folks there over centuries. Is Afghanistan ready for Democracy? Nope. Not at this point. Hold all the elections you want but a Central Government flies in the face of both Provincial and Tribal loyalties.
One “sticky wicket” at best. It does not take a degree in International Relations to figure that out.
Like the Man said, All Politics are Local. As Gen. Petraeus said, the will of the Afghan People will determine the end Strategy and the Military can only do so much to facilitate Security or Economic success. My guess is that the Withdrawal Timeline is Bogus if We expect a harmonious outcome.
Just my take on it. Will the US stay the course? It all depends on Congress. They can pull the plug on Funding and AFPAK will be Vietnam Redux.
OT2 That is so true. I see the State Department wants $2B more to create Iraqi jobs. The military showed them (State Department, USAID and the Department of Agriculture) how to employ 55% of the Iraqis. Fix the irrigation ditches and help them set up agricultural cooperatives. Unfortunately, everyone else knows more than the military. So, it costs the US tax payers $2B more than it should.
OLD TROOPER 2: hi, YOU mentioned CORRUPTION, yes, THE DEPUTY PROSECUTOR was to charge THE TOP PROSECUTOR [his boss] and some other MINISTERS of CORRUPTION
AND was fired with KARZEI agreement right before.
“In some ways, we think right now it’s probably giving our enemy sustenance….In fact, we’ve intercepted communications that say, ‘Hey, you know, we only have to hold out for so long.’”
Almost sounds treasonous.
Randy That should be “has” less than a 25IQ genius.
Tony Snow said 80% of “W”S closest advisors were against the surge.Do you believe him?
Over 65% of the American people were against it.
Colin Powell a civilian was against it. Ofcourse he was still pissed at the Bush admin for putting him in front of the U.N. with bogus intell.
We are all glad the surge worked.The Awakening in Anbar began before the surge and was HUGE in the big picture.GOD LOVE THE CORPS.