The NY Times reported that Barack Obama “strongly” supports the building of a mosque at Ground Zero:
Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site
WASHINGTON — President Obama delivered a strong defense on Friday night of a proposed Muslim community center and mosque near ground zero in Manhattan, using a White House dinner celebrating Ramadan to proclaim that “as a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country.”
He understands
“I understand the emotions that this issue engenders. Ground zero is, indeed, hallowed ground,” the president said in remarks prepared for the annual White House iftar, the sunset meal breaking the day’s fast.
But….”
He just doesn’t care what Americans feel.
Aides to Mr. Obama say privately that he has always felt strongly about the proposed community center and mosque…
The White House itself sought immediately to distance itself from Obama:
President Barack Obama’s decision to make public comments Friday that further stoked an already brewing controversy over the construction of a mosque near ground zero was “purely” his own, an administration official said Saturday.
70% of Americans oppose the building of this mosque. Obama is in favor it. “Strongly”
This is the President who does not believe in the exceptionalism of America.
“I believe in American exceptionalism, just as I suspect that the Brits believe in British exceptionalism and the Greeks believe in Greek exceptionalism.”
In other words, we’re kidding ourselves. America isn’t special (and it won’t be if Democrats are left in power much longer)
He even thinks America ought to be taken down a peg:
No world order that elevates one nation or group of people over another will succeed. No balance of power among nations will hold.” It is difficult to see how a US president who holds these views and does not even accept America’s greatness in history can actually lead the world’s only superpower with force and conviction.
As has been pointed out here repeatedly, Feisal Rauf and his cohorts do have a right to build that mosque, but it doesn’t make it right. It’s no more right than would be the building of a Nazi museum in downtown Tel Aviv, legal or not.
The families of 9-11 victims were outraged:
We are stunned by the president’s willingness to disregard what Americans should be proud of: our enduring generosity to others on 9/11–a day when human decency triumphed over human depravity.
Then when the sh*t hit the fan, Obama started to backtrack:
“Well, my intention was simply to let people know what I thought,” Obama said Saturday when asked about his Friday speech after an event in Panama City, Fla., about the BP oil spill. “In this country we treat everybody equally and in accordance with the law, regardless of race, regardless of religion. I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there. I was commenting very specifically on the right people have that dates back to our founding. That’s what our country is about.”
Not even Cokie Roberts was having any of it:
“…she flat out said President Obama “very clearly” endorsed the Ground Zero Mosque in his remarks to a gathering Muslims at the White House for a Ramadan Dinner, and called his attempt to backtrack on what he said “silly.” Roberts said Obama is already taking all the flack for what he said, and to backtrack on it now is “silly.”
Greg Gutfeld pulled the burka off the whole charade with his hysterical suggestion that he would try to build a gay bar next to the proposed mosque. As Gary Kukis noted here:
Park51 twittered, “You’re free to open whatever you like. If you won’t consider the sensibilities of Muslims, you’re not going to build dialog.”
If you’re not going to consider the sensibilities of Americans, you’re not going to build dialog either, Imam Rauf. Sensitivity is a two-way street, but that’s not how it’s going. The demand is that everyone else be sensitive to Muslims while Muslims need not be sensitive to others.
What Obama should have said was that while the right to build the mosque clearly exists, that wisdom suggests it ought to be built elsewhere. Predictably, he didn’t. He took sides against his country once again.
Mark Twain said “It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.”
Obama should have kept his mouth closed. Now it’s Obama’s mosque.
Its the Progresive playbook…
They cannot bring the rest of the world up, so they must tear the US down… thus making all equal.
EVERYTHING this administration does, points that direction…. from Healthcare, to not using our own resources, to the Banking bill which favors Large banks over small… its all about destroying the power of the US.
When the President of the US BOWS to foreign heads of State, that is all you need to know.
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for all you supporters of moderate Muslims … moderate Muslims still believe in the subjugation of woman and the killing of homosexuals.
try looking up the life history of the founder of Islam … compare that to Jesus or Buddah … does that give you any pause about your thoughts on Islam ?
Why did Obama White House have Georgetown Univ. (a Catholic school) drape any Christian signage or symbols before Obama spoke there in April 2009, to commemorate his 100 days in office?
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Coastie,
I am with you on that. Just had a discussion with my left leaning Priest about that. As usual, they act dumb with no answer. Really, really ticks me off as a Catholic that they would allow him to do that.
You and I both know exactly why he did it. I just wonder if he requests the same when visiting a Mosque?
In case you missed it…
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2010/08/kelo_at_ground_zero.html
In his remarks, Mr. Obama distinguished between the terrorists who plotted the 9/11 attacks and Islam. “Al Qaeda’s cause is not Islam — it is a gross distortion of Islam,” the president said, adding, “In fact, Al Qaeda has killed more Muslims than people of any other religion, and that list includes innocent Muslims who were killed on 9/11.”
What part of that don’t you understand??
“Obama should have kept his mouth closed. Now it’s Obama’s mosque.”
Oh REALLY?? that is really really spinning it Dr. John… Looks like you are trying to be the new right wing spinster here.
So your position is that the killings on 9-11 are ok since they number fewer than Al Qaeda’s hitlist and we’re blown it out of proportion and we should just forget it.
The Japanese killed more Chinese than they did Americans.
So we should forget Pearl Harbor too?
@RAP
Why do you think Harry Reid broke with Obama? Because he agrees with you?
Why do think there are a million stories about Obama dancing aound the issue?
If you liked this post, you’re gonna love the next one!
Being a muslim himself, Obama will always side with other muslims.
@ minuteman26
Your comment is why so many people are hesitant to taking that last step onto “our” side of the fence. That and the “birthers”…And I have the feeling you’re in that camp as well.
They (Those innocent-ignorant’s that make up those who make elections and opinion matter) do not want to be associated with insanity.
His not a Moslem. He’s not a Jew. Certainly not Buddhist, or Hindu. The version of his “Christianity” is a hateful facade, brought forth by communist bigots, and he no longer follows that belief either!!
(cuz it’s political, not spiritual, and he’s “won” already.)
He’s not anything but himself, and believes in nothing but himself. The sooner you come to accept that fact, is the sooner you can catch up to the reality of what’s actually important.
But let’s assume the end result of that sort of “thinking” if your .00004% in-the-affirmative posit it true…
Biden is president, and Pelosi is next…
You make our side look stupid, and it’s that “stupid” that is the LAST of their ammo.
So please stop handing them ammo, unless your quip is accompanied by a smiley-face…Then it’s just plain funny!
We have plenty of ammo as it is.
Is Al Qaeda in Indonesia as well??
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/indonesian-non-muslims-dont-push-back
Lilburn Boggs and Thomas Ford would be proud.
@suek:
Yes.
Thanks, Patvann.
Dr. John,
I am not saying forget anything. I am not willing to throw away the constitution because of it though. Apparently, many right wingers are.
From a Gov. Christie press conference today responding to questioning about the issue:
Commenting on Obama’s remarks;
Exactly right, IMO. There are bigger fish to fry at the moment for conservatives in government.
@CRAP
Give it a rest already. Quit acting holier than thou when discussing the Constitution which your brethren regularly use as toilet paper except when it suits them to use it in making their points.
@drjohn:
I don’t think that was the point at all, John. Not sure you do either. al-Qaeda is marginalized amongst most Muslims.
The problem with the tiresome Pearl Harbor analogy in the way that it’s been used by the right-wing on this issue, is that it is a false analogy (i.e., saying a mosque at GZ would be like a Shinto Shrine built after Pearl Harbor). I look at it more along the lines of this:
Ground Zero = Pearl Harbor
al Qaeda = Japan
Islam = Asia
al Qaeda is an enemy to most Muslims, just as Japan was an enemy to much of Asia.
Patvann – Check out todays Texas Fred blog and see if you come away with the same point of view.
No, Minute-thinker, I will not. Even if I did, my view would only get stronger. He is merely one in hundreds of opportunistic puppet-handlers, and I already know who he is.
You and you’re ilk are reacting as basal, ignorant… dare I say MORONIC bottom-feeders. The pathetic part of all this, is that I could come up with better “evidence”, while in a drunken stupor!
I choose to use actual reality as my foundation for determining the strengths and weaknesses of this admin, while you choose the dead-end of conspiracy… based on lowest-common-denominator emotion.
You are being played, and yet you dwell in it.
Obama is nothing more than a narcissistic ideologue, and anytime spent thinking (and reacting) to anything but that, is to take your eye off the ball. He and his acolytes revel in the knowledge that you are looking at this diversion with such intent.
Obama thanks you for spending the time spreading the meme that he’s Moslem and wants to replace our constitution with Sharia law. Keep it up, and you might even get a cookie for your efforts…cuz you sure as hell won’t get anything more.
-Let alone votes.
…. *and*… a big thank you too, johngalt.
The higher pitched the rhetoric and voices, and the more campaign stands made on this subject instead of the very serious point of no return fiscal debacle – exacerbated by the 2007 thru now Congress, plus this POTUS – the lesser the chances will be for conservatives to reverse this spending trend.
But please… do keep feeding the mosque carpet bomb monster… /sarc
sigh… guess I won’t be able to stop thanking you at this rate, Patvann. :0) There is a potential we will pay dearly for this saunter off the beaten fiscal path.
Got another one up your sleeve johngalt? I got it ready for you too!
A Re-post:
What Obama had to say about placing a Mosque at ground zero was perhaps expected; but a failure on his part to yield to the will of the majority of people in America will cost Obama everything he has and force him out. No mosque will be built on or anywhere near ground zero.
Why were the Obama comments expected?
For a man who writes, “The Muslim Call to Prayer is one of the Prettiest Sounds on Earth”, said Barack Obama to the New York Times. What would you expect?
For a man who spent a great deal of time as a youth in Indonesia surrounded by Muslims; his step-father Sotero was Muslin, his uncles and aunts were Muslim, his grandfather was Muslim and his relatives and friends were Muslim. Obama read and recited the Islamic book called the Koran daily. What would you expect?
For a man that says America is no longer a Christian nation, despite the statistical fact that almost 80% of American’s relate to Christianity in some way. What would you expect? In truth, Muslims are not more than .06 to less than 1.0% of the population in America (est. 2009). Very small percentage of Muslims in America, very small.
On more than one occasion, Obama has had a Freudian slip and declared that he is, or his religion is, Islamic. What would you expect?
Both Obama and Bloomberg have the right idea. This is a religious question. However, remember that there is NO imperative that a mosque be built in the area called ground zero. And, as a matter of tolerance, we can say that those Muslims that want to build a mosque in New York can build it elsewhere. That is tolerance enough and certainly more than the Muslims have for our feelings about ground zero.
And, as for Obama’s declaration that we must allow for religious freedom, I agree. An overwhelming majority of America’s Christians believe that Islam is primitive, of the devil, intolerant, unforgiving and backward. The Koran is proof that Muslims are encouraged to kill infidels rather than tolerate them; and force their religion upon others. Islam is an extremely degenerate set of outdated tenets.
So we have to be tolerant of Muslims when their Islamic ideals call for intolerance; I say NO.
Nevertheless, Christian opinion is strong enough to carry the day and prohibit, by whatever means, the building of a mosque anywhere near ground zero.
And, as long as Obama has declared that we shall have religious freedom, Christians and other dignified non-Muslim individuals will fight openly and freely against everything that Islam and Muslims stands for.
As a matter of fact, we shall pray fervently that the Muslims who don’t give a damn about the sanctity of ground zero can go to hell. Religiously, we shall oppose this plan of theirs with everything we have. And, to those who feel that we should tolerate Muslim’s intolerance regarding respecting our views on ground zero — Obama and Bloomberg and liberal extreme democrats — we American’s will push them out on election day or sooner by any means we can.
American’s have begun their fight to put Islam down as unAmerican; it is part of our religious right and the free exercise our beliefs. Amen.
Patvann It is true the Democratic Party needs more Minuteman22 types trumpeting Obama’s Kenyan birth and Muslim religion in order to secure victory in 2012.The laughability of these falsehoods seem to be lost on them.As Dems we offer them an open pulpit.
I wish Obama would give me the same ‘freedom’ being a christian.
This isuue has ripped of Obamas mask, him being a muslim at heart. His advocacy of good muslims is abvious. Only time would tell, whos side he really is on.
Many states are passing laws requiring proof of citizenship in order for a candidate to appear on the ballot. I wonder, in how many States Obama’s name will not be appearing in 2012.
@johngalt: “Quit acting holier than thou when discussing the Constitution which your brethren regularly use as toilet paper except when it suits them to use it in making their points.”
Frankly sir that is exactly what I am accusing many of the so called conservatives or right wingers of doing. It was okay with CONservatives for Bush to trash the Constitution and now it appears it’s okay with many of them again.
Patvann – Bottom feeders are the ones that clean up the trash. We have a POTUS who was never properly vetted and we are just now starting to find out who and what he really is. This guy is a hybred; a muslim/marxist mixture. The GOP isn’t going to win squat if they maintain the 2008 status quo. To win they had better become the Conservative party and quickly.
@CRAP
Ok, genius. Let’s discuss the ways that Bush ‘trashed’ the Constitution, shall we? Or can you even put forth a coherent thought on the subject without referring to your precious windbags at HuffPo or Kos?
Or………should we just discuss how Obama has regularly circumvented explicit restrictions placed on the Federal government that are spelled out in the Constitution?
Your choice.
@Everyone else.
This exercise should outline in a clear message to leave the Mosque issue to the fringe. We have more important issues to discuss and rally around, otherwise, the issue of a Mosque building placed near Ground Zero won’t matter anymore.
BLY He’ll be on 60.Real question is how many will he lose?
@johngalt:
Where would you like to start?? Warrantless wiretapping? FISA law?? Denying access to counsel after arresting Jose Padilla? Mr.s Bush had those and many many more… so get off of your high horse and give it a rest!!! if you think for one minute that Bush didn’t trash the Constitution your head is totally up your rear.
Now how did I know that this is where you were going with your argument?
Hmmmmm……
You do realize that the supposed “warrantless wireteapping” and “FISA” are the same issue right?
You also realize that the Courts have upheld the actions of the Bush Admin in this matter right?
You also realize that Obie voted for the expansion of the FISA law when he was still a Senator and that he has has expanded the use of warrantless wiretapping since his Immaculation right?
This whole surveillance trend was started by Slick Willie himself…yep, you read that right.
Clearly you are out of your element once again.
The truth is that Obie’s Justice Dept has simply carried over the very same Bush policies…even expanding on them here and there.
Furthermore, Obie’s Justice Dept recently took the position that:
Now remember…what is being referred to above is the tracking of US citizens on US soil without a warrant.
Got that? Warrantless tracking on US soil…no “reasonable expectation of privacy”…
Most recently we have Obie’s advocating for the collection of DNA samples from every person arrested. Not every person convicted…every person arrested.
Did that make you soil your pretty pink panties?
It should.
You wanna whine, cry, and bellyache about Bush listening in on the conversations of known terrorists…with Court approval…when your boy at 1600 is doing much, much worse right here in the homeland.
Basically your boy-prez Obie equals Bush2 so your complaints about W ring hollow. Especially since the actions of President Bush have been upheld by the Courts multiple times.
PATVANN: hi, YOU see what is happening, the divide, between same party, same contributer of FA,
we should not allowed us or others to continue to deepen the gap,
we have to stand together not on this subject because it was a bait sent to us, and we bite on it.
BUT we have a result and we all should close it now, beginning with the AUTHORS of theses POST;
THERE is enough of bad feelings done. bye
@CRAP
Seeing as how AC was kind enough in my absence to expound on your first few claims of Bush ‘trashing’ the Constitution, I am now asking for more, particularly those “many many more” you claim.
As for Obama, I will start the conversation now.
1.
President Obama drew money for the auto-company bailout, and buyout of GM and Chrysler, and did so without legislative approval or appropriation of money for that express purpose. Bush, who also had a hand in the auto bailout, did so under the TARP, which was legislated by congress. Obama had no constitutional authority to do as he did.
Along with the above, is also the issue of Federal Govt. ownership in a private company.
2.
Obama’s ‘Czars’, who have not had Senate confirmations, but hold incredible amounts of power in the governing of the US, are unConstitutional. No amount of wriggling or claims of prior presidents having them make it any less so.
3.
That means that Congress, specifically the House of Representatives, is required by the Constitution to administer the taking of the Census, every ten years. Congress, through legislation, assigned the duty to the Census Bureau of the Commerce Dept. Although the commerce dept is part of the executive branch, it in no way gives the President himself the authority to direct the actual process itself, which Obama has done.
4. Obamacare
a) It is not based on any enumerated power of Congress, not even on a very expansive reading of the power to regulate interstate commerce.
b) It violates Substantive Due Process, and interferes with doctor-patient medical decisions to a vastly greater extent than did the laws declared unconstitutional in Roe v. Wade.
c) It relies on Excessive Delegation of the type held unconstitutional in Schechter Poultry.
Schechter Poultry Corp. v. United States
d) It violates the Tenth Amendment by commandeering state governments.
5. Obama’s numerous EO’s, one of which I will outline below.
The original order was written by Reagan and meant to convey certain privileges to Interpol. Obama’s EO places Interpol above the Constitution by giving them rights previously granted only to Countries, within the boundaries of the US. It means that Interpol can act with impunity within our borders. This was previously not possible under the original EO. Obama has, in effect, subjugated the US citizenry to the ICC(International Criminal Court) without consent of the governed States of the Union.
This by no means is all of Obama’s unconstitutional actions, and indeed, can be seen as only a start being that he still has over two years in office left.
I’m not a “birther” but I just don’t get why obama refuses to produce records that would put to rest for once and for all the issue of whether he is Consitutionally qualified to be the president of the US. Every other president has done so. All his hiding these records tells me is that there really is something to hide. Lawyers are allowed to give juries “adverse inference” charges when evidence that could be given is refused.
Why don’t the rules apply to barry soetoro? And he sure didn’t help himself when he said in a speech that “the muzzeins call to prayer is the sweetest sound on earth.”
Yeah, you bet your life it’s his mosque. In more ways than one.
@DKK
He refuses, because he can use it as a distraction from those who might ordinarily care about what really matters.
Well, if he is Constitutionally unqualified to be president, then everything he does is potentially invalid, and then yes, that most certainly DOES matter.
Obama is more dangerous than any of the terrorists who acted for Allah on 9-11. His opinions over the Mosque should come as no surprise to anyone who questions Obamas citizenship, his religion and his true motives behind the presidency.
Who is the real Barack Hussein Obama?
CHURCHMOUSE Those citizens who believe Obama to be a Kenyan born Muslim are dangerously stupid.
@Rich Wheeler….
Daaaumn Rich… you dug up 3 more States than Obama’s 57. Go figure… you people dig up dead guys to vote too… now you’ve invented 10 extra States. How many electoral college votes do those extra 10 States wield?
@Donald Bly:
Well that would depend completely on how many he needs to win.
azCHURCHMOUSE RICH WHEELER IS A LIBTARD, WHO COME HERE TO DISRUPT,
NOTHING has been prooven on what he says, so he is showing that the others are not stupid,
except he might be. bye
Don Bly and A.C. Got me.Musta bin those Monday night Martinis.You don’t miss a thing.I guarantee he’ll be on 50 states + D.C.Do you doubt this? While we’re at it A.C. your predictions on Repubs. path to Senate control in Nov.
Bees Typos are a bitch.My apologies BYE
A.C.Got a great laugh from your “how many he needs to win”
REAL AMERICAN PATRIOT: hi, WHERE DO YOU THINK THE TERRORIST GET THEIR EDUCATION TO LEARN TO KILL INFIDELS, YOU must know as OBAMA knows that AL QAEDA practice ISLAMIC religion: OF course THEY try to confuse the PEOPLE with diffrent names,
BUT the AMERICANS are not FOOLS as your democrats think.THEY are FOLLOWING the CONSTITUTION RESPECTFULLY, AND are TOLERANT MORE than any other free countrys, they can show their wounds to prove it, and give a list of name of those who died for freedom,
and the truth comes from the AMERICANS.
Rich, why then did Michelle Obama say that Kenya was the “home country” of her husband Barack?
@rich wheeler:
Working on a post with my November Senate and House thoughts.
I keep looking for an ideal opportunity to beat back real life for a bit but I’m only getting short snippets of time on the computer at the moment.
Rich said, “CHURCHMOUSE Those citizens who believe Obama to be a Kenyan born Muslim are dangerously stupid.”
He even admitted that is faith was Muslim or did you miss that clip? He won’t release his medical records, educational records and won’t produce his real birth certificate. Who is he?
Rich………..Question for ya…how do you explain Obamas decline in popularity? You are in the minority today if you support him. He is a failure. He surrounds himself with socialists, communists….and racists. Sure people had had enough of Bush and wanted change but not a rape of the Constitution and the destruction of society as we know it.
Rich the stupid people sit back and do nothing. They don’t speak up and they allow people to do their bidding for them. The don’t pay attention to what is going on. People are starting to wake up and they are making a difference. The difference will come in November at the polls.
And DKK asked a good question…
”Rich, why then did Michelle Obama say that Kenya was the “home country” of her husband Barack?”
dkk If he was born in Kenya was he then smuggled into the U.S.and his birth announced in two Honolulu newspapers on August 4 1961 and did his relatives or handlers aware of his coming Pres run against Mac in 2008 place these announcements.Just askin
Azchurchmouse Obama’s approval has gone from a high of 70%+ to RCP average today of 45% a dramatic drop.GWB,R.R Bill Clinton and other presidents have had similar first tern numbers and been re-elected.Count Obama out in 2012 at your own risk.Anybody who can beat the Clinton machine(Repubs never could) will always be a formidable opponent.
Rich, I said that Michelle made the comment. Why don;t you ask HER? She has more inside info than I do.
Just answerin’
Just as a side note, newspaper birth announcements don’t work as a reliable means of proof.
Any interested party (ie grandparents) could have placed those two announcements simply as a way of notifying family and friends of the little one’s arrival.
I’m not saying definitively that is what happened in this case but what I am saying is that there are other plausible explanations as to the source of the birth announcement info.
Also, I don’t know if he was born in Kenya or not. But I seriously question why his wife- a lawyer who knows as well as all of us that words have meaning- said it was his HOME COUNTRY. I did not make that up, she said it. YOU tell ME why. And Stanley Durham was a communist sympathizer in a Cold War era, whose parents were the proverbial card carrying Communists. Who knows the truth of the papers? It’s not like the president of the US- you know, the guy we are supposed to believe in and support– has ever been really forthcoming with that information. Or forthcoming with educational or health records- the sole president in my memory who ever did that.
But this I do know. Barry Soetoro became an Indonesian citizen. He was adopted by his stepfather, and in order to attend school in Indonesia, he had to be an Indonesian citizen with renounced US citizenship. How then, does he qualify to be the president? THAT is the coverup that I believe will come out, after he is long gone, and well after the damage is done.
Rich, more credible polls have the obomination at 41% approval.
I totally agree with you DKK it will all come out after he is out of office.
There is some reason he is not releasing educational records, medical records. Why?
Look what they put Rush Limbaugh through with his medical records. If Joe Citizen has to cough up documents and they are made public, then what gives with his information.
Here ya go………words from his own mouth. HIS MUSLIM FAITH.
I am a Christian..I would never if talking to someone say……my Jewish faith, my hindu faith. It slipped out and he had to do damage control
Exactly. Lawyers are allowed to tell juries that they can infer bad things from the fact that someone is not forthcoming with evidence they have. So too, I infer that barry soetoro is hiding things. since the rules that apply to all citizens of the US (arguably a point in controversy) apply to the president, as well.
I just don’t get why he doesn’t release everything, make his life an open slate, and be done with this. As someone mentioned, maybe it is to deflect us from other serious and pressing issues, but damn, if this guy is NOT qualified to be pres, there will be hell to pay. And I would like to avoid that, if possible.
I will say to you DKK that this issue is a no-win situation for the GOP primarily because it makes our side look loony.
Even if Obie is Muslim, the Constitution specifically says that there is no religious test to serve as POTUS.
If he were to be revealed as not being a citizen then his removal from office would set this country ablaze….perhaps literally.
Also, one other thing to think about: President Joe Biden.
There are plenty of other concrete things to go after the guy on. Heck, just look at how the wheels are coming off already…and we’re what, 18 months or so in?
The citizenship issue and the secrecy are win-win issues for Obie. He gets to keep whatever secrets he’s hiding, if any…and those who wish to criticize him for it get the ridicule.
There’s not a Court in the land that is going to touch the matter, so it’s best left alone.
He can’t reveal everything because he is guilty of lying.
I can’t for the life of me think why the Republican party did not go after this before the election. No Republican could have ever gotten away with it.
Barry Soetoro is Muslims he admitted it.
If I was being accused of something that was not true, I would cough up the facts and slam them into the faces of those who accused me of wrongdoing.
Now we have the MSM disingenuously reporting that — GASP — many Americans “erroneously” believe that Ozero is Muslim. They continue to insist he’s a Christian who “prays every day.” If many of us believe he’s Muslim, he is the reason why. He did not repeat The Lord’s Prayer at his Inauguration, he did not celebrate Christmas, he did not participate in the World Day of Prayer, and he does not attend a Christian church. He did, however, celebrate Ramadan at the White House. And, as azchurchmouse noted, he spoke of his “Muslim” faith.
AC- sadly, you are probably right. I have wondered for the life of me why the US Supremes don’t take up Dr Orly Taitz or any of the other challengers to the obama throne. That may be why.
I am with you AZChurchmouse and Toothfairy. No doubt in my mind that he is Muslim, and we are all just getting laughed at by the rest of the Arab world. The article linked by SueK was enlightening, to say the least. To a Muslim- not just a radical- the mosques are VERY symbolic.
I have spent a good amount of time in Egypt and parts of the Arab world. Their culture is vastly different than ours. I have spent much time in China and the Far East, and their culture is far more akin to ours, as alien as it may appear. Bridging a cultural divide between Muslims and Westerners will take far more than talk. They talk and WE have to do all the acting.
What’s wrong with this picture?
@azchurchmouse #58: It’s all the lying that will eventually catch up with him. He can’t even remember all the lies he’s told. But the people will. Come November there will be an accounting.
FA Birthers and Islamaphobes I defer to A.C. STATEMENT IN #52.
I made him a solemn promise I wouldn’t accuse any of you fine folks of being racists and I intend to keep that promise.
Semper Fi
@DKK #60: Roger Simon has an interesting article on his blog today about the words Rauf uses here in English vs. the words he uses to his Muslim audience in Arabic. The most compelling quote for me was: “I do not believe in religious dialogue.” That may come as quite a surprise to Rauf’s apologists in the US who claim the purpose of the GZ mosque/cultural center is to create such a dialogue. This tracks with what you said about them doing the talking and we doing all the acting.
Toothfairy- scary stuff. The thing is, there are so many messages from the Muslims out there, and if we had some intellectually honest and intellectually capable journalists to start digging, I think they would find that this is, indeed a Trojan Horse. The radicals all espouse the idea that they will blend in with our society for years- the Muslim friends you have today could turn into the radicals of tomorrow. I am not denigrating the entire religion, but truthfully, the few have made it difficult to not suspect the many. What do we do? Allow everyone to turn our freedoms against us– again?
Exactly, why THERE? On burial gound for countless souls?
@DKK #63: I posted a link on another thread last night that is relevant. It was a link to an article on Yahoo titled “Some Muslims Question Mosque Near Ground Zero.” You can access it at:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_ground_zero_mosque_muslims
They bring up some of the same arguments we have, but they don’t seem to have any more influence than we do.
I read it, Toothfairy. Understood. But how interesting. Can someone point me to a single non Muslim who lost a loved one on 9/11 and tell me that they SUPPORT this plan?
I live in NY, work in NYC, and have not encountered one.
And shame on Bloomberg! All these years, I have liked and supported him because I felt that with his wealth, he was not beholden to any special interests, but would do what is in the best interests of NYC. Now I see that even he is guided by self interest.
DKK: Sadly, Ted Olson, former US Solicitor General under GWB and husband of Barbara Olson, who died on 9/11, does support the GZ mosque. Barbara was one of the passengers who was able to call her husband that morning from the plane. According to his Wiki bio, Olson has been married four times. Barbara was his third wife. A year after her death he met a tax attorney from Kentucky to whom he is now married. Every which way I’m unimpressed with the guy.
@ DKK, #65:
Meet Colleen Kelly, a Bronx Catholic, whose brother was killed in the 9/11 attacks. She has an opinion:
http://www.citylimits.org/conversations/111/mosque-debate-religious-intolerance
Ms. Kelly, of course, doen’t have the sort of high-profile platform that’s being provided by anti-Islamic firebrands such as Pamela Geller, who lumps all Muslims together and presumes to speak on behalf of the entire community of 9/11 families. (Geller is currently central to the Stop Islamization of America media campaign. Other opinions she has expressed put her on the political lunatic fringe, to my way of thinking.)
The vast majority of survivors of 9/11 victims haven’t publicly expressed their thoughts on the issue. No one should presume to speak for them without actually knowing what their opinions are.
Yep. Also Ted Olson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_7Iw8ims9U
Another calm, rational voice, in my opinion. A republican, who was an outspoken critic of Bill Clinton. His wife was on board American Airlines flight 77 when it crashed into the Pentagon.
Ok, there are two. I also know that people who lose loved ones in murderous, irrational deaths have a desperate need for closure and to find “meaning” in their deaths. God love these folks, if they find meaning in allowing this mosque near the WTC, then I hope it gives them peace.
I too lost friends. Not family, but long term friends. Not conscripting anyone’s grief or anger, just my own. I will not find peace until these radicals are off the face of the earth.
Sorry.
One of the brightest minds in my high school was killed that day. He was on his way to conduct a lecture at Stanford. I’m with you, DKK, with the emphasis on “radicals.”
I planted this link on another thread today – a more recent one – but in case you missed it, it’s worth a read if you have time. It kind of supports both sides. It supports those who say that muslims just want peace, and it supports those of us who say that muslims intend to overcome us – one way or another. It’s pretty long, and not even that current…it is a presentation given in 2004 … but if you have time…!
>>http://www.danielpipes.org/2196/the-challenge-of-islamism-in-europe-the-middle-east>>
What I fail to understand is why Word, Aye and Mata are adamantly convinced that muslims in the USA are unlike muslims anywhere else, and are the hope for east-west peace in the future. Virtually all that I have seen them cite has rested on the authority of Rauf and his “bridges”. I don’t know anything about the man, really. There are some muslim groups that appear to want to peacefully integrate, but they seem low in number so far. There are some groups that have left islam, but they don’t really represent muslims in the US or islam because they have chosen to no longer practice the religion. Mata has mentioned three women as examples of the new independent muslim woman, but of the three, one I don’t know, one is now an atheist, and one is now a Christian – so…how are they the examples of modern free muslim women??? I just don’t understand…
suek: hi, I just came from the post “DAISIE KHAN” and I realise that It take some to play the opposite side, because we forget the public’s involvement is include in all we say,
AND for most of us, IT comes out direct from the hearth and soul;
SO we have to accept MODERATORS, in this FA blogs with the AUTHORS who knows how
OUR groups will shake the tables and throw the chairs out the window ,
sometimes; BUT that’s the way CURT want’s IT, FREEDOM of speech by a group
AIMING at the common goal in NOVEMbER. bye
Sue K- Also, why didn’t Rauf sign the “Freedom Pledge”?
The women are examples of “Free” becaused they are no longer Muslim.
@DKK:
My speculation is here.
@suek #72:
Did you fail to read my comment to you or to skat?
Or look up:
The Harvard Kennedy Schools study is linked in the Max Boot article I linked earlier.
oh yes, well there is a Bastion to moderate or even moderately level and fair journalism– Harvard law schooll Seriously, their pontificating and proselityzing in the name of politics is tiresome and naught but a huge waste. They have the name, no question.
Sadly, they don;t have the intellectual honesty to back their comments up. Nor the facts.
Have you a clue who they are? And who supports them?
And here we go, this is next: Go ahead. Seriously. Defend this. Reported on aol today.
I could swear I’ve been here, done this before…. why yes, I did back on August 10th in response to Smorgabord.. But since repeating ourselves endlessly has become the norm here… let’s try one more time.
Your first clue about Former Muslims United’s “freedom pledge” may be the fact that same group has been protesting the building of mosques all around the country, including putting up billboards for the Murfreesboro, TN mosque.
Your second clue should be that out of the hundreds of Muslim leaders who received the petition from this relatively new USA group, only *two* Muslim leaders *have* signed it.
This group was formed only last September, and done after petitioning the FBI to investigate what they called hate crimes against apostates. Problem was, they had no statistics or deaths to cite. Nor could they come up with any type of number of who has been threatened. They referred to the 17 yr old who bolted to Florida to escape her parents, wAs in protective custody until her release on her 18th birthday early this month. You got to love it when the system works… you know, that “help” that people believe isn’t there for Muslims and/or Muslim converted to Christians on the lam?
Since their brief life span as an organization (of five people), they’ve existed pretty much to throw obstacles in the path of Muslims. Obviously their behavior has not won the hearts and minds of Muslim leaders, and everyone but two of the recipients of their petition has chosen to ignore them. Gee… wonder why…. /sarc
I believe Wordsmith has already reposted the names of the three most recent reports on American Muslims that I put in another thread. Since all three of these are archived as PDF’s on my computer, I don’t have links. However a search of the title and the source should get you to them quite easily. It’s not like they are a state secret, and have been there – online – always available for the curious of mind.
Well, both these questions tell me you didn’t even bother to look at the March 2009 report, DKK. Especially since the six pages of source footnotes “back up” the abstract, and who it is, and where the funding is from is all on the first page.
duh….
I see you didn’t do your homework again, suek. Otherwise in your travels, you would have encountered my favorite lady for years, Irshad Manji. Nor was our debate subject about “modern free Muslim women”, but about those who help others escape, advocate for reform and cope with any oppression. I see you totally forgot the gist of the conversation… again. And once more misrepresentated the back and forth. I do wish you would provide links instead of trying to paraphrase conversations with me. It’s like the kid’s game of Gossip, when I read your synopis… what comes out is nothing close to the original story.
Nor do these names represent “one individual” (or “four” total, as you prefer to think of it), as they all have networks of others they work with on the same issues… both for women, and for reform.
Perhaps the most stupid thing about these boards is that you can always find a fanatic lib who will espouse your point of view, despite the truth. Sure I read what a Harvard law prof says, some idiot who has never practiced law — or more importantly. never practiced a law or ran a business a day in his life, and conveniently ignores what fuels the engines of economy- small business and tax cuts!
Gee, here’s a newsflash Mata . Did not know I was supposed to come in here omnipotent with all the knowledge, feigned or otherwise, that allegedly has been part of this board. You and wordsmith are quite the item on that.
No i didn;t “bother” to look at the March 2009 report, which btw, is likley obsolete. Again, sorry, but no one told me the rules here. And if you are not the governing body, then you have WAY too much hubris on that one.
BTW Mata-
The ides behind NOT building the citadel to sharia law and Islam is supportive of your favorite lady who advocates for reform and supports anti-oppression.
You want ot help her? Seriouslyl send a message.
The message of appeasement DOES NTO WORK.
You didn’t have to be omnipotent, DKK. The link to the Mar 2009 study about assimilation of Muslims, and how they rate issues of import (differing even from country to country) was all there. You needed only do two clicks, and instead you chose to diss it all without even seeing whether it was an opinion piece, or construction of research and polls.
“likely obsolete”… LOL Would you like this duplicated every month or so?
As far as “governing body”, I’m only an author here. Curt’s “da man” You have complaints, take it up with him. Genuinely not sure how pointing out your questions gave away the fact you were research lazy was hubris. THe answers to both were so overt from page one, and the last six pages of a full report, complete with graphs and pictures totalling 38. Not exactly a major commitment to even have a cursory glance.
But then, I see your hypersensitivity isn’t confined to just me.
@DKK… again you are coming in here after what has been over a month and a half of debate. It’s like trying to catch someone up to a movie plot when they decide to come in three scenes from the end. If you genuinely want to know who the players are in the debate here, and what we actually believe instead of assuming, you’d really have to go back to the older post in the GZM category.
Since you were daunted by a 38 pg report, I’m not guessing you’ll endeavor to wade thru thousands of comments over 29-30 posts (and counting). Can’t say as I blame you there, but it cannot be helped if you leap to erroneous conclusions because you simply haven’t been around here long enough to know the personalities and specific battles. Nor can anyone really paraphrase them for you… at least accurately. Doesn’t mean they won’t try tho.
So let me summarize for you… I don’t like Cordoba House. Find it just as offensive as you. But I find attempting to rearrange laws and ordinances to prohibit it, because they are Muslim and because it’s offensive, even *more* offensive.
Secondly, I’m not at war with Islam…. and as Bush ID’s, we are at war with the global Islamic jihad movements. Cordoba Initiative has no evidentiary ties to either jihad groups, nor the 911 attacks. I will not go there with you… you trend on that blanket casting on your own, and with your fellow anti-Islam types you’ll find here. There’s no dearth of them, so you shan’t be alone. I am stil of the mind that people are innocent until proven guilty, even tho I do keep wary eyes poised on some subjects. And they aren’t all Muslims. Most of them, in fact, are the very dangerous lib/progs in our WH and Congress, who are causing far more damage than this building could ever do.
Lastly, Irshad has not weighed in personally on the Cordoba House. She did have some interesting feedback, which was all she asked for on her Facebook site… and provided some excerpts here. Frankly, they seem like a sane bunch that she picked, and it doesn’t surprise me she attracts that. She thought it merited a “healthy debate”, and I agree.
Problem is, around here, that debate isn’t always that “healthy”.
What you are speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.
Keep attacking., who knows maybe someone will bite.
Here’s a newsflash for you. I am not making new law on Cordoba House- YOU KNOW, the rallyiig cry of Muslim victory. (Yeah, Do YOUR homework)
ALL I am saying is that it is unseemly and against the ethical considerations of most people who lost loved onew in 9/11. And of other New Yorkers who fled across the Brooklen Bridge, whose memory is that of many shoes being left behid, so that people could get to safe harbor.
YOU were not there, and I personally resent your belittling of it;
suek, hi, today april 4 rth 2011, I,CAME BACK TO RE READ AGAIN, AND
I TRYED TO OPEN YOUR LINK ON YOUR 72, AND IT COULD NOT BE FOUND,
just thought you’d like to know,
bye
DKK on your 64, IT LOOK LIKE YOU WHERE PREDICTING AS today 4rth of april 2011,
we look around the MUSLIM’S NATIONS IN REVOLT, to become homogenous as one pound of butter is,
bye