1 Aug
Sunday Funnies
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Sunday, August 1st, 2010 at 12:00 am | 1,576 views
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Man, that first Twin Towers one is poignant… some people like this wingnut Bloomberg better think long and hard about this one, and they might want to listen to Palin for once, as is so often the case she’s the only one with any nads on the issue- go get ‘em Cuda.
Here’s my dirty dozen for a Gran Finale… have a great weekend Wordsmith:
Reaganite’s Sunday Funnies
@Reaganite Republican:
Yup. But I thought last week’s lead cartoon was quite clever:
Short of issuing a fatwa on Beeler, it certainly got conservatives riled up and offended.
What about Newt?
Actually, I think that anyone with “nads” would be a conservative leader that spoke out against the tide of Islamophobic moral panic going on, right now from our side of the aisle.
Yet no death threats, rioting or violence occurred after this cartoon was published. Hmmmm…why is that?
Already noted that, skye.
But tell me what to make of minuteman’s comment:
Yet according to Mike, there’s no Islamophobia here. Just “legitimate concerns”.
And rioting over Danish cartoons….how many out of 1.5 billion actually did that, anyway?
Does calling a person a ‘raghead’ make them as islamaphobe, Word?
Enough to force newspapers to censor themselves and require personal security guards for the editor and creator of the cartoons.
Do you suppose the same threats will be leveled against the creator of that vile Sarah Palin cartoon?
When 1.5 billion muslims start ridding themselves of their ultraviolent sects; when Imams instruct their followers to out extremists then I’ll consider giving these people some credit. Heck, I’ll even warm up to them if they fund the building of Churches in Arabia, stop hanging homosexuals, and stoning women to death.
Am I setting too high a standard, Word?
+1 Skye
Separate Sharia courts.
Violent rioting on a regular basis.
Assassinations and assaults on anyone who dares to criticize them.
All of these things and the more traditional violent misogyny from the hard working Muslim immigrants in Europe. What could go wrong when we start (complete the process actually) adopting European “bend over backwards” tolerance here in the States? I’m sure that the 1.5 billion will start condemning and expelling all these elements of their religion any day now. Just as soon as the massive global demonstrations against terrorism and Jihad are over with.
You don’t have to “hate” your friend or sibling to stop hanging out with them or stop loaning them your car keys because they insist on hanging around with drug addicts and criminals. You don’t have to hate all Muslims to expect that they pressure their rowdy coreligionists into behaving like this is the 21st century, not the 8th. Respect is earned. I don’t give it because some violent brats throw a demonstration/riot to demand it. The “1.5 billion” need to stop acting like the battered wife who always returns to her abuser and defends him against all criticism.
And after all of this rabid “Islamophobia”? I STILL think they have the right to build the Mosque/community center if New York allows it. I think it is a mistake. I do not foresee anything good coming from it. But I am not in favor of usurping the rule of law because I have a bad gut feeling. However, I also don’t see anything good coming from people trying to shut down dissent with accusations of “Islamophobia” and other PC, Progressive Socialist tactics.
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I don’t want that freaking thing built there… there’s no need for it. Funny how the backers of it were involved with the ill-fated Turkish flotilla- hmmm
You know, they call Geert Wilders and Islamophobe too… frankly, I’ve never heard a word out his mouth that wasn’t backed-up rock solid with supportive evidence. If he’s afraid, he builds a pretty solid case for why he is… and 95% of it from The Koran and historical evidence
In my mind, a hero to all of Western civilization- as Palin may someday be too, she’s sure headed in the right direction
I can guarantee that your lead cartoon (mosque) will be voted one of Today’s Toons top 15 of the month (qualifying it for Best Toons of 2010 voting threads).
http://gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?topic=33001.0
http://www.gopachy.com/gp2/index.php?topic=4914.0
http://www.therightreasons.net/index.php?/topic/23049-todays-toons-73010/
@Skye:
Nope. Not name-calling alone, but if you’re at all familiar with any of his other comments on the topic, I don’t even know that he’d deny his Islamophobia- although he might not use that term.
No skye.
I already know Islam’s got a rage problem out there. Blogged about it back when it happened. But do you think 10,000 or even 100,000 rioting in the streets represents most of the 1.5 billion? Yet that’s the way many on our side seem to want to look at it.
Do you think most are fundamentalist extremists, skye?
You’re asking for a lot.
@Lightbringer:
American Muslims are not European Muslims. They are far more successfully integrated.
I agree; ‘cept in the case that there are a lot of Muslims that have embraced modernity and are horrified by stoning, beheading, etc. But they also have a right to complain about Muslim stereotypes and prejudices because it is happening. And some of you are complicit in this.
Who’s trying to shut down dissent? Seems your side is by denying the term, “Islamophobia”. If it smells like religious bigotry/conspiracy, quacks like religious bigotry/conspiracy, hey….some of what’s in the opposition camp may just be religious bigot-conspiracists.
So who attacked us on 9/11? Islam itself or takfiri terrorists?
ahhhhh….the libbies are starting to ooze out again. Can’t win on the issues so the racist, islamaphobe, bigoted, race cards get delt (bottom of the deck as usual).
@Timothy:
@Reaganite Republican:
I think you might have arrived a little late to the party, RR. That’s only about the 5th or 6th thread on this topic and the Flotilla Gaza funding accusation is bunk.
I’m beginning to wonder if Wordsmith isn’t secretly an Islamic Iman
I’m not the one who pretends to know Islam better than the practitioners know Islam. That would be Imam Spencer and Imam Geller.
You don’t ever really see me citing counter-passages from the Quran do you? I’m hardly a fan of the religion.
And everyone in prison is innocent… just ask em.
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@Donald Bly:
Would you like to tag me, the guy who grew up in a family of Southern Baptists and to this day is still an active member of the Baptist faith, with that same title?
Tolerance does not make one a Muslim.
Neither does intolerance.
@Lightbringer:
You are absolutely correct. We agree totally on this point.
Of course, not everyone will see it that way, dashing for the delete key just to try and keep control of the narrative.
Of course, sometimes dissent will spring up outside the reach of those attempting to squelch opposing views.
@wordsmith:
Why, thank you for asking. The answer to your question is right here.
Of course, some have the adult ability to allow open debate.
Exit questions:
1) When two people, both claiming to espouse Conservative views get into a discussion and one of those involved threatens the other, then exercises censorship by deleting comments and then closing down the post, ending the discussion entirely, which person won the argument?
2) When a person actively engages in silencing opposition or dissent, does that person ever have the right to complain about voices of opposition or dissent being silenced?
So when do we hold Islam in general responsible for the actions of 10%-20% of it’s membership? Do you really think that it is some sort of coincidence that 90%+ of terrorists and terrorism in the world all belong to the same religion? Do you think that random Muslims expressing distaste for terrorism in private is really going to remove the violent element from their religion? Or does the approximately 25%-50% of Muslims who express some level of approval for terrorism in polls just count as some sort of harmless quirk? Where are the mass demonstrations denouncing violence, terror, and radicalism? As Skye asked, where are the moderate Muslims who expose radicalism and terror funding/recruitment in their Mosques and organizations? I am not condemning Islam in general because of some misguided belief that they all actively support terrorism. I just find it pointless to give them any credit for being moderate when the best they can muster is some comments at the water cooler about how horrible the latest terror attack is.
You point out that “Moderates” are upset about being stereotyped in one big lump with the radicals. I can understand why they would be, and it may not be fair. However, such things happen because when the radicals behave violently, the moderates are nowhere to be seen or heard. When the U.S. or some European country tries to treat all Muslims more fairly (I believe it is called appeasement) the radical Muslims simply step up their aggression and demand even more concessions… and the Moderates are nowhere to be seen or heard. Western society simply can not drive violent radicalism from Islam. The Muslims themselves have to do it, and they simply are not.
Nidal Hasan
Florida Muslims who screamed “get back in the ovens!”
Times Square bomber
Recruiting station assassinations
Flying Imams
I could go on and on. However you do have a point. To use an analogy, a toddler who pisses and craps in their pants only 1/2 the time IS far more successfully potty trained than one who does it 100% of the time.
You could also rightly claim most Germans were not Nazi’s, then one day they woke up and found their nation at war with the world and building concentration camps with highly efficient ovens. Their silence is damning.
As mentioned earlier, I want to see Imam’s using their influence to reject the cult of martydom in every mosque on the planet. I want them self reporting mosques that are breeding grounds for terrorists. The best and only way to fix this ugly problem is to have moslems reform islam. Apparently, Mark Steyn agrees with me
Mark Steyn writes (in America Alone) of three resolutions to this problem:
1. Destroy islam
2. Submit to islam
3. Reform islam
With 1.5 billion moslems, it is inconceivable to completely eradicate this pervasive, cult-like religion. I hope no one considers option two a viable solution. It comes to option 3 – Reform islam. Western nations should foster conditions that encourage internal reform in moslem countries. We’ve done this before with the former Soviet Union, however back in the day we had a leader with a backbone, something we don’t have today.
BTW – Word, I still love you – even if I don’t agree with you on this topic
@Skye:
Ahem….How about the rest of us?
Sending love to ALL my fellow Flopping Aces contributers
)
@Skye:
Of course you do. I’m irresistible.
@Lightbringer #21:
We’ve been doing that. Check the FA archives. Islam is an ingredient in all this and has an anger management problem. But I think a lot of the dysfunction has as much to do with culture and other issues than just theology (whose practice varies from place to place). As I cited David Kilcullen in my post:
Killcullen is a go-to expert on global counterinsurgency.
Nope. It’s a problem within the community. In Ron Kessler’s “The Terrorist Watch”, he talks about how there are individuals who step forward to give them tipoffs (FBI cases that led to Lackawanna, New York; Lodi, California; and Atlanta, Georgia), but how as a community, they prefer to handle it themselves (kicking out extremists), not trusting the FBI. It’s a culture thing. Many Muslims come from country where they’ve been persecuted and oppressed by the authorities. So they try to settle and fix things within the community.
I agree. It’s the reputation and future of their faith on the line and they should be out there, leading the charge. However, Muslims have been slaughtered all over the planet for not embracing the global jihadist’s vision for the world. They are the ones dying. So they’re in this fight, just because you don’t see them marching in the streets, ala Gathering Eagles, in counterprotests. And where they have been vocal, media just doesn’t seem to cover it as much. Lacking sensationalism for the media? I don’t know. Ask PBS about it, as well.
Yes, the violence workers make the biggest headlines. My cousins in Japan used to be afraid to come to the States, thinking we had drive-bys in Los Angeles all the time.
I have a friend who is French-Muslim-American. She wrote me that “we just want to be left alone”, complaining about how they were always in the news. Unfortunately, she doesn’t see that the reputation of her faith is on the line and the jihadis and radical fundamentalist crazies are winning the hearts and minds of popular perception that they are all like them.
In some sense, I do agree. But as much as Muslims in France have segregated themselves off from French society, creating little nations within a nation, France also has itself to blame for snobbish bigotry and disenfranchisement. Muslims there do have some honest gripes about how they have been made apart from being accepted as French citizens. And this makes them ripe pickings for radicals to recruit them with their propaganda.
Well, please do. Because that’s less than an armful. To be sure, we have to be vigilant. But the reasons why these guys turn to radicalism doesn’t necessarily equate solely with Islam itself. For that, you’d have to explain then why we don’t have 6 or 10 million terrorists living amongst us.
A number of jihadis actually have a very poor command of their religion. Islam has an inherent radicalizing factor to it; but other conditions provide the trigger for making them embrace jihad and radicalism.
@Skye #22:
Appreciate and respect your perspective, given that you’re not one to sit on the sidelines and remain silent, but go out there to be a visible sign of counterprotest to the anti-war misfits.
But even amongst the demonstrators, how many were actually rioting and calling for the death of the cartoonist, and how many were participating in legitimate, peaceful show of offense and anger?
I would agree that many in “that part of the world” (I don’t recall such sizable protests here in the States) have some pretty thin skin; but I think culture plays a big role in all this.
Geez, over here in LA, all it takes for rioting to take place is for the Lakers to win.
@Wordsmith
I agree up to a point with Killcullen’s assessment. However, I would like to hear/see/read him explain why such varying cultural and political stimuli do not seem to translate into other religious groups. If such factors were more important than the underlying religious mindset, then terrorism would be more evenly spread across the spectrum of peoples, regardless of what they happen to call God or how they worship.
What that assessment tells me (forgive the extended analogy to follow) is that Islam is like a giant gunpowder factory turning out 1.5 Billion human shaped bags of explosives. Like the real world stuff, some of these are harmless and inert, and the rest (usually) require political sparks or cultural impacts to explode. So far so good. However, if we simply ignore the factory and the ever increasing stockpiles of explosives that they keep shipping and storing around the world and simply start a campaign to confiscate all matches, we have not solved the underlying problem. We still have humongous stockpiles of explosives everywhere just waiting on accidental sparks to set them off. If we convince the factory to start making cement or something else, all the matches in the world will not cause their inventory to explode.
Here we get both to the heart of the matter, and also tie back in to the Ground Zero brouhaha. There is a reason that the radicals want all Muslims feeling isolated and stereotyped as radicals. It helps them recruit. One of the ways they seek to achieve this is by demanding special treatment and proposing projects such as the Cordoba thing that they know will be insulting to westerners. Then, when anyone objects or, heaven forbid, denies them their demands, they can cry “Racism!”, “Islamophobia!”, even when no such sentiments were involved in the refusal. On the surface, it might seem better simply to accede to such things. However, as Chamberlain found out 70+ years ago, that only leads to greater demands and louder cries of oppression once you try to say no. Each concession they receive makes them look successful, and Westerners look weak to the Muslim youth who has not decided who is right yet. As long as the majority of Muslims decide to see themselves as “victims” of Western White Imperial Christian oppression, instead of propaganda tools of their own radicals manipulation then this situation will continue. As with Europe in the 1930′s, there probably isn’t a truly “winning” solution, but giving them what they want and hoping they will stop is a fool’s choice.
Immigrating to France and being offended by snobbish treatment is like immigrating to Germany and being offended by beer.
I am not going to waste my weekend collecting news stories about Muslim demonstrations and atrocities such as honor killings. If you think that those five examples are the complete list of Muslim bad behavior in the States then I have a house in Texas with no air conditioning that I’ll sell you cheap. Honest, it never gets above 80 degrees!
As I talked about above, I agree that the majority of Muslims are not radicalized. However, as your last sentence admits, too many of them are simply gunpowder waiting for a spark. Banning matches is fine for a start, but the fundamental Islamic chemical formula needs to change before this situation explodes. Empowering the aggressive elements of Islam by giving in to every demand for fear of angering them is not going to make the situation any better.
@Lightbringer:
What special treatment do you refer to? Why do you automatically assume that the motive for the project is to be insulting to westerners rather than reconciliatory? If the reputation of their faith has been stained, here they are, perhaps trying to recover that reputation. It will service the community of Lower Manhattan, and not just Muslims. If taken at face value (and Rauf has a 27 history in the community of service and participation in interfaith dialogue), then here is an opportunity for us to see those mainstream “moderate” Muslims we keep asking for to speak up. And it would be thumb to the eye of Zawahiri and bin Laden.
What frustrates me is the inability of people on the other side of the issue from me to recognize that some of the rhetoric and some of the opposition is indeed motivated by bigotry. And instead of distancing themselves from it, its either embraced, or ignored rather than condemned.
Mike says he’s not opposed to Islam but radical Islam. Yet he’s silent when it comes to allies in his camp who have expressed bigoted comments.
There’s a difference between appeasement and diplomacy. Between civility, tolerance, respect, manners and purposely insulting, being inflammatory, offensive, provocative.
Our side is becoming the hate we despise in them. And who profits from our willingness to perceive this as a war between Islam and the West, when it isn’t? bin Laden and Zawahiri. Those who think this is a war between Islam and the U.S. are made pawns to al Qaeda when they failed to make majority Muslims believe in their propaganda-spew.
@Lightbringer:
lb, chances are I’ve probably seen much of whatever links you’d care to spare me. Still, there’s no epidemic of honor killings going on here.
Demanding that church bells be silenced comes to mind as a good example of “special treatment”.
As for reconciliatory vs. insulting; If the Catholic church or some evangelical group announced that it was going to build a huge new Christian sponsored “Community Center” in downtown Kabul or Baghdad would it be viewed as “reconciliatory”? The Christian Church did not invade either country after all. Perhaps they simply want to recover the reputation of the Christian faith? I am sure that the Mosque on Jerusalem’s Temple Mount was meant as a reconciliatory “community center” too.
You may be right, but the only historic “reputation” that Islam has is for building Mosques on top of the rubble they have made of other people’s holy sites. (and Yes, I am fully aware that the World Trade Center was not “holy”. It was properly symbolic enough to fit the pattern though.) If this is something different and new, then we shall see and I shall publicly apologize. I anticipate something more along the lines of the Holy Land Foundation, or at best some sort of PR outfit like CAIR.
I do not recall claiming that anti Islamic bigotry did not exist. My main point was that there seemed to be an eagerness to paint every opposing voice with that same brush. As for bigotry becoming policy, it did not stop this project did it? Bigotry against Muslims is not the reason why little old ladies are strip searched in air ports. My point was that just like the “race card”, Muslims are pulling out the “Islamophobe” card every time they do not get their way 100% and immediately. It is one thing to disapprove of Islamo-bigotry. It is quite another to grant them protected status above and beyond any actual instances of systemic bigotry they might encounter. I have tattoos. I do not start screaming “Inkism!!” every time somebody looks at me weirdly or they ask for my ID when I’m using a credit card.
Simply giving them what they want every single time because you are afraid of being called an Islamophobe is not diplomacy.
As I said, American Muslims only crap in their pants 1/2 the time.
Assuming that this is still a cartoon thread:
http://www.thefort2.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14360
@Wordsmith
I AM late to this party here, felt the need to weigh in, but you’re saying you think this Post article is BS?
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/imam_unmosqued_0XbZMwCvHAVdRZEKgx29AK
If it is, I haven’t seen the case against it-
The fact is that the agenda behind the placement of the mosque is not good faith, but part of offensive against this country, and there is no need to insult the 9/11 victims and their families… it’s nuts, try building a Catholic church in Turkey It’s like free trade… got to go both ways, man
Planting a Moon and Cresent flag on the ruins of the WTC is nothing but a conquest in my eyes… it is in the eyes of radical Muslims, bet on it- how is handing them this massive propaganda victory (and AQ recruiting tool) a good idea?
I don’t think it has anything to do with any “rights” imho, and I find it so distasteful, defeatist, and unnecessary I’d just as soon fight it to death in court and drain their resources…. make THEM prove some Constitutional reason we need to allow this- because it’s not a good idea in any way for NYC and this country.
Nothing gets built without the huge NYC government’s approval, the planning commission can’t be forced, can they? So what on earth are these fools thinking-
@Reaganite Republican:
RR,
So the Constitution should have a special case exemption clause for Muslims? The Constitution shouldn’t apply for a group of people? Seriously?!
The Constitution and current laws are already on their side.
All the counter-responses I’ve said over and over to every new commenter (and some old ones who like to repeat themselves…making me repeat myself) that my life is now better spent either cutting-and-pasting my responses or just ignore (no disrespect to you intended). You’ll also find plenty of like-minded arguments by those who are opposed. Please check through the comments sections in this category.
@pookie18:
I’m amused, still.
@Wordsmith
I am simply encouraging the NYC planning commision to disallow it… we all know it’s a bad idea.
They don’t have authority here…? Can’t they just zone it out or something? I honestly don’t see how any Constitutional issues take precedent over that- I am not looking for some Libertarian ideal, I am being honest in saying I don’t trust the backers and simply don’t want it there… if nothing else but for the benefit of the families of 9/11 victims.
It’s not necessary at all… so why are these people pushing it? Show some respect!
What I am advocating is that our side make them fight it in the courts, as CAIR and the ACLU would surely abuse our justice system to the fullest to achieve their agenda… and they do.
I am against this mosque group, as is a majority of Americans… so at least make them jump through hoops and create a few barriers, make them prove they have a “right” to do this.
I’d have a hard time feeling bad about it honestly, the group behind the Mega Mosque is not my friend in any way, shape, or form… I don’t feel the need to be too idealistic here, honestly
Viva Geert Wilders- now there’s a guy who gets it, my friend…
http://www.qubetv.tv/photos/detail/86290
@Reaganite Republican:
It was a bad idea for a variety of reasons; one of which happens to be that it is bringing out some of the ugly side of America (think, Williams’ “monkey god religion comment). What this all does is give a propaganda win for the anti-Americans who wish to portray us as anti-Islam. The funny thing is…some of you openly admit to it, yet refuse to be called “bigoted” or Islamophobic. I supposed that’s why some time ago I used the term “educated” bigotry, coming from the right. It’s an overeducation on anti-Islam readings that will have you believing that burqas are the standard Islamic dress fashion, taqqiya is practiced by all, and “convert or kill” is the goal of every Muslim out there because the Koran tells them so.
But that’s an emotional argument by someone thoroughly convinced that he is on the side of the angels. But what if……you’re not? That is a possibility, isn’t it?
What if it turns out “the backers” are being unfairly maligned? I’ve read so much of the supposed “evidence” of radical ties and terrorist funding. Mostly what I see is a desire to connect dots to draw a picture that isn’t there.
It’s possible that Rauf has some radical associations and have some ideas that we can associate with “radical beliefs”; he most certainly holds a worldview that is aligned with liberals politically. But I do not believe from everything I’ve read that he is a supporter of Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda (you know…the ones who attacked us on 9/11?).
I care deeply about the 9/11 families as well. But there is no pain involved if one separates the subliminal or overt belief that Islam itself is responsible for the attacks of Sept 11th.
Geller and Spencer and crew have been doing just that.
Maybe they aren’t and just maybe they are.
I like Rush’s idea. The property owners on either side should propose putting a liquor store on one side, and a strip club on the other. I wonder how fast the New York zoning commission would nix the plans citing, “You can’t put those types of business there! It might offend Muslims going to the Mosque!” That is the double standard that is pissing off a lot of Americans, and part of the “special treatment” I was talking about Wordsmith. If Rauf was truly interested in “reconciliation”, would he continue to push forward with this plan after discovering that he was offending millions of Americans? Are you accusing Rauf of insanity or drooling stupidity? Because the only other option is that he is intentionally offending non Muslims.
Lifgtbringer: YES very bright idea from RUSH, we cannot expect anything less from RUSH;
FUNNY how we still find new ideas coming, when we think, we thought we had thought of all ideas;
AND I’m sure someone will come up with more. bye